Maybe it has something to do with those two nations being part of a small group that isn't beholden, in one way or another, to the U.S., and therefore would be significantly less likely to put a bag over his head and send him back to the states?
When you say "not beholden" to the US, what you really mean is that they have long been adversaries of the US and regularly threaten nuclear war against it. They wouldn't be inclined to stop something damaging from happening to the US, and can be counted on to exploit whatever information from Snowden they can get their hands on. Both British and US intelligence assess it likely that they will manage to obtain Snowden's stolen secrets.
The comment that you responded to above looks, smells, walks and talks like a government flak.
Since about half of Americans believe that Snowden's actions are harmful it is no surprise that some people here would express that view. Suggesting otherwise is demagoguery.
The "real problem" is that most Americans prefer not to be blown up and they already trust the government with their old age pensions, medical care, and prevention of invasion and terrorism.
Snowden may have pulled the curtain away to reveal what was suspected with regards to who spies on who, but in doing so he also showed that the intelligence services were out of control and arrogant in their stance.
The intelligence agencies are performing the mission given to them by Congress & the President, and are seeking information requested by other parts of the government. At best Snowden is a vigilante that overthrows the rule of law governing the intelligence agencies and has already caused immense damage to the US intelligence effort. At worst he may be the most damaging spy ever in US history.
General Benedict Arnold only offered to give away one fort, Snowden has stolen the "keys to the kingdom" and is on track to severely damage US intelligence for decades to come. The view of Britain's spymaster in the colonies, Major Beckwith, was that ''Washington did not really outfight the British; he simply outspied us!'' Had Snowden acted in the 1770s Washington would not have been able to outspy the British, the practically certain outcome of that would have been for the Colonists to lose their fight. Had the Colonists lost their fight it is quite likely that Washington, Franklin, Madison, Jefferson, et. al would have been hung, and the Constitution of the United States with the Bill of Rights would never have been written. Make your choice, cheer Snowden, or cheer the Constitution, you can't cheer both. Snowden's very acts strike against the Constitution itself and the principles of democratic, representative government. ' Now as is the custom, I must receive my -1 flamebait/-1 troll moderations since my worlds must not be seen or debated in a free society.
You are wholly ignorant of the cause of the war with al Qaida. They seek imperialist conquest of the world, including the regions formerly governed by Muslim empires, including Europe. You do realize they want to put Spain back under Muslim rule? Name your country, they want to rule it too. It may take time, but they are patient. In the case of Europeans they being helped by the native European population that is simultaneously pursuing self-extermination with a birth rate of only 1.3 children per woman and wholesale abandonment of Christianity. If you are young you will likely see either civil war or accommodation of Muslim law in your lifetime unless trends change.
Kill innocent Americans by "accident"? Don't be stupid, they kill innocent people by design, by choice, on purpose! It would be a massive improvement if they would only kill civilians by accident.
Make your own choices, but understand there will be consequences. You may not have the wisdom to make good choices.
And if you think that CIA doesn't use the "lest something happens to your family" just as much as other intelligence agencies, I have land on the moon to sell you.
The CIA is an intelligence agency, not the secret police in a Soviet block country. (In Soviet times.)
Pakistan is a sovereign nation with major portions of the population and government that range from not friendly to actually hostile to the US. They also held elections not long ago, and the government changed according to the vote. Calling it a dictatorship doesn't really reflect either the reality or complexity of the Pakistani situation.
But I'm sure you'll protest that your source must be "golden." After all, activists and Islamists tribesmen have never been known to exaggerate or lie, have they?
The vast majority of people killed by the drones aren't simply innocents even if occasional mistakes are made in targeting. Of course the Taliban has been caught laying about "wedding parties" too.
It is unfortunate that al Qaida decided to go to war and persuaded so many Muslim people to go along with them. I trust there is a reason why you can't condemn them for both making war and hiding among the innocent villagers you describe?
The topic of the story was, "US Customs Destroys Virtuoso's Flutes Because They Were "Agricultural Items""
I'm not sure how you got to rendition, the CIA, and Anwar Awliki, but obviously the moderators enjoy the sparks flying from the axe grinding. I guess it's a colorful show. It's actually kind of impressive that you got not only two posts out of that, but two +5 posts at that. I guess somebody must really be starving for the two minute 'merica hate.
Maybe I'll have more to say later to address your points.
we also categorically state that we have never entered into any contract or engaged in any project with the intention of weakening RSA’s products, or introducing potential ‘backdoors’ into our products for anyone’s use.
Could you point out the problems in that? Maybe you'll want to go back to the original post, follow the link, and read.
While all the cryptographers do think it is a big deal.
Go back and read it again. The two that started this downplayed it in their own presentation: "WE ARE NOT SAYING: NIST intentionally put a back door in this PRNG" Good old Bruce didn't find anything in Snowden's leaks to show that the crypto had actually been subverted.
They think it is a big deal because they see the potential, but they can't prove that a backdoor actually exists. Nobody has proven that. This is a lot like the paranoia over NSA's changes to the S-boxes for DES. "They must have put in a backdoor," is what the advocates argued. 15 year later differential cryptanalysis broke a lot of ciphers, but not DES. Hmmmmm.... turns out NSA knew about it at the time and strengthened DES against it.
This is not an issue where there is real discussion.
Exactly! Far too many people are running in circles yelling, "Back door! Back door! Panic!" when there isn't proof of that, only suspicion, at best. Everyone should stop, take a deep breath, and reread all the background material. I see many inflated claims, but little that is solid.
It is not me who are exaggerating, it is you who are understating the issue.
What I see are a lot of inflated claims in one giant media echo chamber, each claim building on the other. But when you go to look at the foundations there is very little there.
Drone attacks aren't an example of political oppression but of war fighting, primarily against al Qaida. Attacks in war do not involve courts and charges.
This was the topic I responded to: "If people were being "disappeared" in the US "
As far as your grievances go, I understand that many people are opposed to the US defending itself against al Qaida, and the measures taken, but that is a different question than what I responded to.
The use of drones or cruise missiles does not constitute "summary execution," but is attacking members of an enemy force at war with the United States. You may not like that, but it is true. Bin Laden declared war on the United States on behalf of al Qaida in 1996, the US Congress authorized military action against al Qaida in 2001 after 9/11.
The fact that US citizens have joined al Qaida renders them no protection on the battlefield any more than the hundreds of thousands of Americans fighting for the Confederate States of America in the Civil War. There were shot and killed all the same without arrest, charges, trial, conviction, or sentencing. War is war, not a matter of the criminal justice system.
Muslims are fine, as long as they are peaceful. If they take up arms to attack the country they may be killed just like German Christians were killed in WW1 & WW2, Chinese atheists in the Korean War, and so on.
You may be gratified to know that the prisoners detained at Guantanamo Bay received regular visits from the Red Cross.
Visitors not welcome... Many musical instruments are made of wood. So I guess they are all at risk if the owners come to the US.
Well, that certainly seems more likely than the possibility that a customs inspector overreached, doesn't it? After all, no bands or orchestras ever come to the US from overseas, do they?
Just one more way......that going through US customs could ruin your life. DON'T DO IT.
The US has about 62 million visitors per year. I would expect that you could find the occasional horror story given the sample size and the vagaries of human behavior, especially when faced with a highly regulated activity such as crossing international borders.
Are you suggesting there are none to be found in Europe in general, or your country? No occasional injustice or difficulty? Care to test that?
Imagine. There isn't genuine, notable political repression by the state in Western Europe or the Anglosphere.... yet. There is in parts of Eastern Europe and China.
The question isn't whether they had a contract, but what the contract did. Did they conspire to introduce weaknesses into their product? They deny that. Claiming that if they don't deny there was a contract makes them "guilty" is playing games.
I think at this point the burden is on you to read: "we also categorically state that we have never entered into any contract or engaged in any project with the intention of weakening RSA’s products, or introducing potential ‘backdoors’ into our products for anyone’s use."
Slashdot Mirror
Maybe it has something to do with those two nations being part of a small group that isn't beholden, in one way or another, to the U.S., and therefore would be significantly less likely to put a bag over his head and send him back to the states?
When you say "not beholden" to the US, what you really mean is that they have long been adversaries of the US and regularly threaten nuclear war against it. They wouldn't be inclined to stop something damaging from happening to the US, and can be counted on to exploit whatever information from Snowden they can get their hands on. Both British and US intelligence assess it likely that they will manage to obtain Snowden's stolen secrets.
Your words are both gracious and wise.
Happy New Year!
The comment that you responded to above looks, smells, walks and talks like a government flak.
Since about half of Americans believe that Snowden's actions are harmful it is no surprise that some people here would express that view. Suggesting otherwise is demagoguery.
The "real problem" is that most Americans prefer not to be blown up and they already trust the government with their old age pensions, medical care, and prevention of invasion and terrorism.
So you are totally skipping over the whole "lying to congress" thing as if its inconsequential?
That wasn't "lying to Congress," that was a stunt by a Senator Wyden . The record is clear that Congress was informed.
Wyden’s Stunt Was Congress at its Worst
Snowden may have pulled the curtain away to reveal what was suspected with regards to who spies on who, but in doing so he also showed that the intelligence services were out of control and arrogant in their stance.
The intelligence agencies are performing the mission given to them by Congress & the President, and are seeking information requested by other parts of the government. At best Snowden is a vigilante that overthrows the rule of law governing the intelligence agencies and has already caused immense damage to the US intelligence effort. At worst he may be the most damaging spy ever in US history.
General Benedict Arnold only offered to give away one fort, Snowden has stolen the "keys to the kingdom" and is on track to severely damage US intelligence for decades to come. The view of Britain's spymaster in the colonies, Major Beckwith, was that ''Washington did not really outfight the British; he simply outspied us!'' Had Snowden acted in the 1770s Washington would not have been able to outspy the British, the practically certain outcome of that would have been for the Colonists to lose their fight. Had the Colonists lost their fight it is quite likely that Washington, Franklin, Madison, Jefferson, et. al would have been hung, and the Constitution of the United States with the Bill of Rights would never have been written. Make your choice, cheer Snowden, or cheer the Constitution, you can't cheer both. Snowden's very acts strike against the Constitution itself and the principles of democratic, representative government.
'
Now as is the custom, I must receive my -1 flamebait/-1 troll moderations since my worlds must not be seen or debated in a free society.
You are wholly ignorant of the cause of the war with al Qaida. They seek imperialist conquest of the world, including the regions formerly governed by Muslim empires, including Europe. You do realize they want to put Spain back under Muslim rule? Name your country, they want to rule it too. It may take time, but they are patient. In the case of Europeans they being helped by the native European population that is simultaneously pursuing self-extermination with a birth rate of only 1.3 children per woman and wholesale abandonment of Christianity. If you are young you will likely see either civil war or accommodation of Muslim law in your lifetime unless trends change.
Kill innocent Americans by "accident"? Don't be stupid, they kill innocent people by design, by choice, on purpose! It would be a massive improvement if they would only kill civilians by accident.
Make your own choices, but understand there will be consequences. You may not have the wisdom to make good choices.
Can, won't.
And if you think that CIA doesn't use the "lest something happens to your family" just as much as other intelligence agencies, I have land on the moon to sell you.
The CIA is an intelligence agency, not the secret police in a Soviet block country. (In Soviet times.)
Proof, or it doesn't happen.
Pakistan is a sovereign nation with major portions of the population and government that range from not friendly to actually hostile to the US. They also held elections not long ago, and the government changed according to the vote. Calling it a dictatorship doesn't really reflect either the reality or complexity of the Pakistani situation.
But I'm sure you'll protest that your source must be "golden." After all, activists and Islamists tribesmen have never been known to exaggerate or lie, have they?
The vast majority of people killed by the drones aren't simply innocents even if occasional mistakes are made in targeting. Of course the Taliban has been caught laying about "wedding parties" too.
It is unfortunate that al Qaida decided to go to war and persuaded so many Muslim people to go along with them. I trust there is a reason why you can't condemn them for both making war and hiding among the innocent villagers you describe?
Aye, ye never know when they'll be needed!
Not quite.
Pakistani General: Actually, The Drones Are Awesome
The topic of the story was, "US Customs Destroys Virtuoso's Flutes Because They Were "Agricultural Items""
I'm not sure how you got to rendition, the CIA, and Anwar Awliki, but obviously the moderators enjoy the sparks flying from the axe grinding. I guess it's a colorful show. It's actually kind of impressive that you got not only two posts out of that, but two +5 posts at that. I guess somebody must really be starving for the two minute 'merica hate.
Maybe I'll have more to say later to address your points.
we also categorically state that we have never entered into any contract or engaged in any project with the intention of weakening RSA’s products, or introducing potential ‘backdoors’ into our products for anyone’s use.
Could you point out the problems in that? Maybe you'll want to go back to the original post, follow the link, and read.
While all the cryptographers do think it is a big deal.
Go back and read it again. The two that started this downplayed it in their own presentation: "WE ARE NOT SAYING: NIST intentionally put a back door in this PRNG" Good old Bruce didn't find anything in Snowden's leaks to show that the crypto had actually been subverted.
They think it is a big deal because they see the potential, but they can't prove that a backdoor actually exists. Nobody has proven that. This is a lot like the paranoia over NSA's changes to the S-boxes for DES. "They must have put in a backdoor," is what the advocates argued. 15 year later differential cryptanalysis broke a lot of ciphers, but not DES. Hmmmmm.... turns out NSA knew about it at the time and strengthened DES against it.
This is not an issue where there is real discussion.
Exactly! Far too many people are running in circles yelling, "Back door! Back door! Panic!" when there isn't proof of that, only suspicion, at best. Everyone should stop, take a deep breath, and reread all the background material. I see many inflated claims, but little that is solid.
It is not me who are exaggerating, it is you who are understating the issue.
What I see are a lot of inflated claims in one giant media echo chamber, each claim building on the other. But when you go to look at the foundations there is very little there.
Drone attacks aren't an example of political oppression but of war fighting, primarily against al Qaida. Attacks in war do not involve courts and charges.
This was the topic I responded to: "If people were being "disappeared" in the US "
As far as your grievances go, I understand that many people are opposed to the US defending itself against al Qaida, and the measures taken, but that is a different question than what I responded to.
The use of drones or cruise missiles does not constitute "summary execution," but is attacking members of an enemy force at war with the United States. You may not like that, but it is true. Bin Laden declared war on the United States on behalf of al Qaida in 1996, the US Congress authorized military action against al Qaida in 2001 after 9/11.
The fact that US citizens have joined al Qaida renders them no protection on the battlefield any more than the hundreds of thousands of Americans fighting for the Confederate States of America in the Civil War. There were shot and killed all the same without arrest, charges, trial, conviction, or sentencing. War is war, not a matter of the criminal justice system.
Muslims are fine, as long as they are peaceful. If they take up arms to attack the country they may be killed just like German Christians were killed in WW1 & WW2, Chinese atheists in the Korean War, and so on.
You may be gratified to know that the prisoners detained at Guantanamo Bay received regular visits from the Red Cross.
Visitors not welcome ... Many musical instruments are made of wood.
So I guess they are all at risk if the owners come to the US.
Well, that certainly seems more likely than the possibility that a customs inspector overreached, doesn't it? After all, no bands or orchestras ever come to the US from overseas, do they?
Just one more way... ...that going through US customs could ruin your life. DON'T DO IT.
The US has about 62 million visitors per year. I would expect that you could find the occasional horror story given the sample size and the vagaries of human behavior, especially when faced with a highly regulated activity such as crossing international borders.
Are you suggesting there are none to be found in Europe in general, or your country? No occasional injustice or difficulty? Care to test that?
Foreign visitors to U.S. hit record in 2011
The number of foreign tourists hit a record 62 million last year, up 4 percent from 2010, the department said in a statement.
If people were being "disappeared" in the US I expect we would hear something about it.
Imagine. There isn't genuine, notable political repression by the state in Western Europe or the Anglosphere.... yet. There is in parts of Eastern Europe and China.
Ironically it will probably be China first, followed by Russia, then rest of Europe. The tide is likely to keep rising.
Two bombs in Volgograd, Russia, kill 32 and leave dozens injured
The question isn't whether they had a contract, but what the contract did. Did they conspire to introduce weaknesses into their product? They deny that. Claiming that if they don't deny there was a contract makes them "guilty" is playing games.
RSA Response to Media Claims Regarding NSA Relationship
No time, too busy collecting Boxcar Willie and Slim Witman records. Are you saying there is someone I missed?
For the benefit of our (musical) flute/fife fans, a few pieces with a prominent role for flute/fife:
Bourée
Inca Dance
Gary Owen - Used in this scene from They Died With Their Boots On
Petruta Küpper Einsamer Hirte playing
I never thought of flutes as an "invasive species."
I think at this point the burden is on you to read: "we also categorically state that we have never entered into any contract or engaged in any project with the intention of weakening RSA’s products, or introducing potential ‘backdoors’ into our products for anyone’s use."
That seems pretty definitive to me.