Indonesia hardly has grounds to complain since the former head of its national intelligence agency has admitted to tapping the phones of Australian politicians in the past, and that Indonesia taps the phones of many nations.
Besides that, relationships between nations aren't similar to marriages, and Russia's actions aren't the equivalent of just posting on Facebook. And where do you get the idea that nations either don't or "shouldn't" spy on each other? In a perfect world, maybe, but then the world would need to be crime free before you could get there. Is your state crime free?
Let me see if I can give you something closer to the actual context. An unmarried couple (X & Y) of swingers live in an apartment building full of swingers that has an orgy at least once per week. The rule is that you have to choose anyone other than the one that came with you. At this one particular weekly orgy, Mr. Y decided to break the rule during a blindfold game and took Ms. X, his live-in girlfriend, who couldn't see it was him. Mr. Z, who has always fancied Ms. X, took a photo of that rule breaking in progress and posted it on the internet anonymously. Ms. X is upset that the photo is on the internet, unhappy with Mr. Y for breaking the rule, and Mr. Z is using the unhappiness to try to break them up so that Ms. Y will move in with him.
Although that is imprecise, and with further thought might be improved upon, it is closer to the actual situation than your marriage example. I leave it up to you to figure out who Australia, Indonesia, and Russia are in this.
Some messages, not unlike bombs in a storage bunker, are best left where they are. When they are moved to the general public they can become hazardous to all. A number of Snowden's leaks have been widely and badly misinterpreted because the journalists didn't understand the context and actual content of what they were seeing and misreported what it was. As is the case in many instances of bad reporting it is difficult to get the record corrected. The result has problems and widespread anger that didn't need to exist. There may yet be a war that follows from this, or significant consequences in a war or terrorist act that was going to happen anyway. Snowden didn't innocently deliver a message as the saying depicts, but assembled a Pandora's Box for delivery. You may yet come to rue its opening.
Australia could have been more diplomatic over the issue... Decades of hard diplomatic work by Australian govs is now been lost....
A., you may recall that Indonesia's former head of their national intelligence has admitted to tapping the phones of Australian politicians in the recent past. This is the pot calling the kettle black, and politicians overreacting,.... at least in public.
You also mention "weak encryption," I believe that is the one thing that hasn't been shown and that Snowden directly said still was OK when properly used.
It is also worth pointing out that Snowden admits his actions. Those are actions that will have many consequences in many areas, not all of them foreseen, and many of then undesirable. This is likely to be just the beginning.
I don't condone the violence, but it's interesting that you'll get headlines blaming the violence on Snowden and his release of the documents - not on the real source of the problem which was the covert activities of the US, and it seems now also the Australians.
It isn't even that. The problem is the asymmetric nature of the release. Indonesia is riddled with spies, at least some of whom are there to spy on the many terrorists and terrorist supporting groups in Indonesia. Unfortunately only the activities of a couple of nations have been revealed, and the others haven't. That allows people to pretend that the problem is the US or Australia, that other nations aren't involved, and that there is no reason for intelligence gathering in Indonesia. The article documents that Russia has a political delegation there, and you are kidding yourself if you think they don't have spies there conducting intelligence operations. The US, UK, Australia, Germany, Sweden, Finland, France, Canada, and many other countries are full of Russian spies, not to mention Chinese and other nations.
I also note that you apparently have nothing to say about Russia stirring the pot on this with their political delegation. It didn't occur to you that they are at the least exploiting this to their advantage? Or that they may have even had a hand in it?
The Snowden news added nothing new to the mil history aspect.
On the other hand we now see Russia deploying political action teams to stir the pot and exploit the ensuing political chaos to their favor. A textbook example of political warfare 101 by Russia courtesy of its Soviet roots, almost as if they planned it.
I'm a little surprised you didn't pick up on that given your nose for conspiracy.
Yes. The pity is that most people mistake Pandora's box for a music box and are dancing around it in ecstasy. Little do they suspect that the box has barely started to reveal its contents even if no more revelations from Snowden's stolen cache are published.
I wonder what the offspring of Pandora and the Pied Piper would look like?
Most enterprises rely upon one or more software packages from a vendor, often for critical functions. You can only do what your vendor's software allows. Not everything is tablet friendly or cloud happy.
So are you saying that orders for "Currywurst mit Pommes" or döner are no longer heard on the streets of German cities, or from the fine soldaten of the Bundeswehr, American army, and other NATO allies when given the opportunity for that or other such local food?
I take it that you lack familiarity with the habits of soldiers? Or are you just being over sensitive about something? In either case I think you are showing a failure of imagination since the KGB or GRU would have been able to develop a suitable menu and assist in preparing such trucks if it had been an actual plan rather than a tongue in cheek comment.
Sweden annexed Norway without fighting after shelling Norwegian formations with cans of corned beef.
I believe the most successful tactic the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact forces could have used to invade Western Europe would have been to make their first echelon forces to be thousands of snack & ice cream trucks. That would have quickly rendered the Western defences helpless for the following tanks.
If you haven't already you may want to have a look at Interval arithmetic since it addresses some associated issues. It is supported in various development environments and libraries.
whats the difference... between what he did and what the NSA does on a routine basis and massive scale?
Governments have powers and attributes that ordinary individuals do not have. That is why it is pretty unlikely that you have the legal authority to sentence someone to jail or imprison them unless you are a judge in a court, for example. Nor is it likely that you have the power to tax other people.
Governments also have what is known as "sovereign immunity" for their actions. You probably don't have that attribute either.
I'm not sure why so many people on Slashdot are confused about this point.
Nice to see another big science project providing results. The data from all these recent big experiments should be quite helpful in winnowing out some theories. It looks some supersymmetry theories appear inconsistent with the data being seen. Things seem to be resolving towards the standard model, and yet it has problems. Interesting times ahead I'm sure.
That depends entirely upon the country in question and its criminal procedure. It is in fact customary to do exactly that (extradite for questioning) in a number of countries in Europe. In some systems the formal questioning is the last step before charging, and must be completed before charges can be filed.
There are no charges yet, unless they they are not being truthful in the claim that he is wanted for questioning.
Although I may be mistaken, I believe that Denmark's criminal procedure is broadly similar to Sweden's, as well as a number of other countries in the EU. Those countries have a different set of criminal procedures that involve a more formal investigation by the police, a prosecutor, or a judge prior to charges being filed. English and American law, for example, has no concept of an investigating judge prior to charging, but a number of countries in the EU do (not to mention other countries in the world). Because of that there are a number of countries that are part of the EU's treaty system that use extradition for questioning rather than just when charges have been filed.
I wouldn't make the mistake of assuming that just because it might be listed as "questioning" that it isn't serious. In some of the legal systems in Europe that questioning is the last formal step before charging, and must be completed before charging.
Slashdot Mirror
Indonesia hardly has grounds to complain since the former head of its national intelligence agency has admitted to tapping the phones of Australian politicians in the past, and that Indonesia taps the phones of many nations.
Besides that, relationships between nations aren't similar to marriages, and Russia's actions aren't the equivalent of just posting on Facebook. And where do you get the idea that nations either don't or "shouldn't" spy on each other? In a perfect world, maybe, but then the world would need to be crime free before you could get there. Is your state crime free?
Let me see if I can give you something closer to the actual context. An unmarried couple (X & Y) of swingers live in an apartment building full of swingers that has an orgy at least once per week. The rule is that you have to choose anyone other than the one that came with you. At this one particular weekly orgy, Mr. Y decided to break the rule during a blindfold game and took Ms. X, his live-in girlfriend, who couldn't see it was him. Mr. Z, who has always fancied Ms. X, took a photo of that rule breaking in progress and posted it on the internet anonymously. Ms. X is upset that the photo is on the internet, unhappy with Mr. Y for breaking the rule, and Mr. Z is using the unhappiness to try to break them up so that Ms. Y will move in with him.
Although that is imprecise, and with further thought might be improved upon, it is closer to the actual situation than your marriage example. I leave it up to you to figure out who Australia, Indonesia, and Russia are in this.
Some messages, not unlike bombs in a storage bunker, are best left where they are. When they are moved to the general public they can become hazardous to all. A number of Snowden's leaks have been widely and badly misinterpreted because the journalists didn't understand the context and actual content of what they were seeing and misreported what it was. As is the case in many instances of bad reporting it is difficult to get the record corrected. The result has problems and widespread anger that didn't need to exist. There may yet be a war that follows from this, or significant consequences in a war or terrorist act that was going to happen anyway. Snowden didn't innocently deliver a message as the saying depicts, but assembled a Pandora's Box for delivery. You may yet come to rue its opening.
Your post is full of "piss," and "vinegar," but could use more insight.
Australia could have been more diplomatic over the issue ... ....
Decades of hard diplomatic work by Australian govs is now been lost
A., you may recall that Indonesia's former head of their national intelligence has admitted to tapping the phones of Australian politicians in the recent past. This is the pot calling the kettle black, and politicians overreacting, .... at least in public.
You also mention "weak encryption," I believe that is the one thing that hasn't been shown and that Snowden directly said still was OK when properly used.
It is also worth pointing out that Snowden admits his actions. Those are actions that will have many consequences in many areas, not all of them foreseen, and many of then undesirable. This is likely to be just the beginning.
I don't condone the violence, but it's interesting that you'll get headlines blaming the violence on Snowden and his release of the documents - not on the real source of the problem which was the covert activities of the US, and it seems now also the Australians.
It isn't even that. The problem is the asymmetric nature of the release. Indonesia is riddled with spies, at least some of whom are there to spy on the many terrorists and terrorist supporting groups in Indonesia. Unfortunately only the activities of a couple of nations have been revealed, and the others haven't. That allows people to pretend that the problem is the US or Australia, that other nations aren't involved, and that there is no reason for intelligence gathering in Indonesia. The article documents that Russia has a political delegation there, and you are kidding yourself if you think they don't have spies there conducting intelligence operations. The US, UK, Australia, Germany, Sweden, Finland, France, Canada, and many other countries are full of Russian spies, not to mention Chinese and other nations.
I also note that you apparently have nothing to say about Russia stirring the pot on this with their political delegation. It didn't occur to you that they are at the least exploiting this to their advantage? Or that they may have even had a hand in it?
The Snowden news added nothing new to the mil history aspect.
On the other hand we now see Russia deploying political action teams to stir the pot and exploit the ensuing political chaos to their favor. A textbook example of political warfare 101 by Russia courtesy of its Soviet roots, almost as if they planned it.
I'm a little surprised you didn't pick up on that given your nose for conspiracy.
Yes. The pity is that most people mistake Pandora's box for a music box and are dancing around it in ecstasy. Little do they suspect that the box has barely started to reveal its contents even if no more revelations from Snowden's stolen cache are published.
I wonder what the offspring of Pandora and the Pied Piper would look like?
I believe I recall reading about such an incident. You make a good point.
Stopping to plunder a supply depot or column has proven costly for more than one army.
The Soviets may have "won," but I don't think any of them looked forward to once again facing battle against the Finns, including the "White Death."
Two stories involving Norway on the Slashdot home page at the same time.
As we go forward together, let us remember how victory was won.
Most enterprises rely upon one or more software packages from a vendor, often for critical functions. You can only do what your vendor's software allows. Not everything is tablet friendly or cloud happy.
So are you saying that orders for "Currywurst mit Pommes" or döner are no longer heard on the streets of German cities, or from the fine soldaten of the Bundeswehr, American army, and other NATO allies when given the opportunity for that or other such local food?
I take it that you lack familiarity with the habits of soldiers? Or are you just being over sensitive about something? In either case I think you are showing a failure of imagination since the KGB or GRU would have been able to develop a suitable menu and assist in preparing such trucks if it had been an actual plan rather than a tongue in cheek comment.
As to obesity, Europe is catching up.
RIP: Kadir Nurman
Sweden annexed Norway without fighting after shelling Norwegian formations with cans of corned beef.
I believe the most successful tactic the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact forces could have used to invade Western Europe would have been to make their first echelon forces to be thousands of snack & ice cream trucks. That would have quickly rendered the Western defences helpless for the following tanks.
Venezuela's approach doesn't appear to be sustainable.
Venezuela's President Maduro to rule by decree
Ghost of Chavez Can't Stop Hyperinflation
Inflation, Shortages And Economic Turmoil: Venezuela On The Brink
2013 Index of Economic Freedom - Venezuela
Correction for the first link:
Electron Shape Measurement, Most Precise Yet, Rules Out New Physics Theories
Dank u / Tack
If you haven't already you may want to have a look at Interval arithmetic since it addresses some associated issues. It is supported in various development environments and libraries.
whats the difference ... between what he did and what the NSA does on a routine basis and massive scale?
Governments have powers and attributes that ordinary individuals do not have. That is why it is pretty unlikely that you have the legal authority to sentence someone to jail or imprison them unless you are a judge in a court, for example. Nor is it likely that you have the power to tax other people.
Governments also have what is known as "sovereign immunity" for their actions. You probably don't have that attribute either.
I'm not sure why so many people on Slashdot are confused about this point.
Nice to see another big science project providing results. The data from all these recent big experiments should be quite helpful in winnowing out some theories. It looks some supersymmetry theories appear inconsistent with the data being seen. Things seem to be resolving towards the standard model, and yet it has problems. Interesting times ahead I'm sure.
Electron Shape Measurement, Most Precise Yet, Rules Out New Physics Theories
Observation of micro–macro entanglement of light
The fact that some legal systems apparently don't allow it. There are also legal systems that don't allow trial in absentia at all.
That depends entirely upon the country in question and its criminal procedure. It is in fact customary to do exactly that (extradite for questioning) in a number of countries in Europe. In some systems the formal questioning is the last step before charging, and must be completed before charges can be filed.
There are no charges yet, unless they they are not being truthful in the claim that he is wanted for questioning.
Although I may be mistaken, I believe that Denmark's criminal procedure is broadly similar to Sweden's, as well as a number of other countries in the EU. Those countries have a different set of criminal procedures that involve a more formal investigation by the police, a prosecutor, or a judge prior to charges being filed. English and American law, for example, has no concept of an investigating judge prior to charging, but a number of countries in the EU do (not to mention other countries in the world). Because of that there are a number of countries that are part of the EU's treaty system that use extradition for questioning rather than just when charges have been filed.
I wouldn't make the mistake of assuming that just because it might be listed as "questioning" that it isn't serious. In some of the legal systems in Europe that questioning is the last formal step before charging, and must be completed before charging.
Seems like transporting him to Denmark means there is already a preformed conclusion.
It is customary to bring the accused to the judicial system where charges are to be considered, not the other way around, even in the EU.
Government - the cause and solution for every problem and social ill ... at least in some quarters.
I score that as 25 for 25. Your dog should be happy on the next trip to the field. ;)