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Norway's Army Battles Global Warming By Going Vegetarian
cold fjord writes "It looks like no more spam, spam, spam for Norway's warriors... at least on Mondays. The Daily Caller reports, 'Norway's military is taking drastic steps to ramp up its war against global warming. The Scandinavian country announced its soldiers would be put on a vegetarian diet once a week to reduce the military's carbon footprint. "Meatless Monday's" has already been introduced at one of Norway's main military bases and will soon be rolled out to others, including overseas bases. It is estimated that the new vegetarian diet will cut meat consumption by 150 tons per year. "It's a step to protect our climate," military spokesman Eystein Kvarving told AFP. "The idea is to serve food that's respectful of the environment." ... The United Nations says that livestock farming is responsible for 18 percent of global greenhouse gas emissions. Cutting meat consumption, environmentalists argue, would help stem global warming and improve the environment." — The Manchester Journal reports, "The meatless Monday campaign launched in 2003 as a global non-profit initiative in collaboration with Johns Hopkins University to promote personal and environmental health by reducing meat consumption.'"
If Norway was really going to make a dent in Global Warming, they would stop pumping up oil.
I wonder what the impact would be if everyone in the world would have a meatless monday. Of course, in some regions in the world not that much meat is eaten already now, but I expect that the total would be a significant difference.
I typically down a few Cheezburgers over the weekend so I think I can live through a Meatless Monday.
This is getting ridiculous.
Lets just switch to nuclear power and be done with it.
After all, it's the only realistic way to become a Type I civilization...
AC because I don't have an account.
Long time lurker, firs time poster.
Sweden annexed Norway without fighting after shelling Norwegian formations with cans of corned beef.
The impact on global climate would be NOTHING MEASURABLE whatsoever. Several years ago I read China is about to launch 700+ coal power stations by 2020. Sure, China will decommission other stations in that period, but the overall trend is obvious. Even if the whole Norway, not just the army, stops eating anything and even stops breathing to reduce the so called carbon footprint, the impact would be ... nothing. China alone will more than compensate :)
Seriously, who can afford meat every day anymore?
Sounds like serious 20th century first world problems when you have to create a campaign to restrain yourself on only --ONE FUCKING DAY A WEEK-- from buying and eating meat.
they are Come on AAl; in order to go Little-known Raymond in his
My thoughts exactly, could you elaborate further?
Vegetarianism is a great threat to the environment precisely because it is more efficient at providing food. The argument is a bit counter-intuitive, but bear with me.
Being more efficient, it allows to feed more people with the same land. Alternatively, one could feed the same number of people with less land.
The problem is that in whole human history, any increase in efficiency has not been used to reduce the human footprint, but simply to increase the number of people until any advantage created by the increased efficiency is lost. A larger number of people don't just need the same land as before, but, they also need more water, more metals, cause more emissions and generally consume a lot more. Therefore, the final effect, just for the increase of people, will be a worsening of environmental conditions.
This is exactly what has happened quite recently. The book "The population bomb" is often derided for inaccurately predicting mass starvation.
This wasn't so much because the calculations were wrong but, rather, because a massive increase in efficiency of food production, the so called Green Revolution.
The Green Revolution would have allowed the same number of people to live with a much smaller footprint but, guess what happened ?
The population grew instead to match the new capability and the environment is in more in trouble than ever. Plus we now have a much bigger population to maintain, with ever growing expectations.
This is applies to any increase in efficiency, not just food and vegetarianism. When you are urged to save more water, food or energy, whatever is saved never goes to a better environment (it might, temporarily, until the population grows to match the new limit), it just goes to grow more people and make matter worse.
So, please, waste more, it is very damaging to the environment, but the alternative is far worse.
How will the troops live without lutefisk?
"The Greens lynched a hacker in Chicago. Last month, but I think the body's still hanging from the old Water Tower."
You may want to try reading this year :)
You must have missed it but China recently made an announcement about not building any more coal fired power stations. That's a very major change and completely pulls the rug out from under your argument - so what may have been a good point in July just makes no sense at all now.
Decrease of 150 tons of meat. Global production of meat 180 million tons. 150/180,000,000 - 0.00005%. Decrease in greenhouse gasses: 0.00005*.18 =0.000009%. Get a million of those together and you would have something.
The 'beasts' share the same scent - how to piss off an alien/human hybrid
the hybrids carrying filthy spawn (like in the days of Noah) are easy to SNIFF out, literally, they all smell the same when you're in the proper state of mind.
some of them have eyes which appear to be bugging out of their face.
even if you can't detect the scent of the hybrids, or 'beasts', inhale deeply whenever the hybrids are close, don't express any emotion, just keep inhaling deeply and make your facial expression be that of deep contemplation.
when you do this, they know that you know what their true reality is - it's like the movie THEY LIVE where Nada sees the truth through the glasses and confronts them.
don't confront, just inhale deeply. maybe shake your head and laugh, mumble about stupid aliens but nothing deep.
Off the top of my head I can't think of a whole lot of options for locally-produced protein in Norway. If you eliminate the animal proteins, what's left? How much carbon is Norway saving if they have to ship more nuts and beans in from overseas, particularly if the alternative is wild-caught fish?
...why Garfield hates Monday.
just eat each other every other week? oh wait...
of responsibility
They need to formulate graphene into a device for ultradense storage of hydrogen. Then they could use their hydro-electric to separate the hydrogen from the carbon, make graphene gas (hydrogen gas) tanks from the carbon, put the hydrogen in it an sell 'em pre-filled to owners of Toyota fuel cell cars. That would help cut down on the feelings of responsibility for global warming.
I can't believe a country other then the USA actually take this hoax as real. Too bad there are less sun spots then expected that are preventing the temp to go up. Norway is just finding a way to save money I think at the expense of the soldiers.
Meatless Monday?
In India, meat eaters typically only eat meat ONCE a week. That's not one day a week - just ONE meal a week. And then there are crores of vegans, lacto-vegetarians and lacto-ovo-vegetarians.
We're always astonished how westerners start their day with meat.
Completely messed up that reply, was meant for a completely different guy. Why can't I delete or edit anything here????
Well fuck it, nothing can be done. We might as well give up and prepare to die as there is no cumulative effect when combating global warming. Goodbye cruel world...
Or you could stop complaining and adapt to a slightly warmer world.
How did you get to be so shit at trolling?
He tried to kill me with a forklift!
Typical meaningless symbolism to appease the members of the Green church.
And on the fourth day, god decided to really get that shit up. She pissed and shat and from this, there came the first man. And she saw this, and decided to obliterate everything and start again. She then fucked her sister, and gave birth to the unvierse awe see today. Just aa5g minatugs agoag.rg5g a;a gs;kjf *LIST* *CARRIER* #LOST#
"You just can't build your body very well without animal protein". Could you give any evidence to back that up?
Evidence, from the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada [1]: This position paper reviews the current scientific data related to key nutrients for vegetarians, including protein [...]. A vegetarian, including vegan, diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients.
Vegetarians cannot do well at any major sports? Well go tell Carl Lewis, who won a few gold medals in athleticism being not vegetarian, but vegan!
[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12778049
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Lewis
This has nothing to do with global warming. Its an excuse to change diet of people who can't object to something less natural than eating meat or fish.
I predict a revolt amongst the ranks
Tubby or not tubby. Fat is the question
Micro-optimization is the root of all evil ... and there is also uncertainty that CO2 is actually the problem, or to some that there actually is a problem!
Any solution to global warming, or any movement to combat an issue affecting humanity should involve the following three countries...China, India and USA...these are the three biggest countries as far as population goes and can have the most impact - right now or in immediate future.
What Norway or other smaller Scandinavian countries propose and follows is commendable...but its nothing more than good PR.
As far as vegetarian / vegan goes, India is more or less "Shuddh Shakahari" - Hindi/Sanskrit for "Pure Vegetarian".
Tat Tvam Asi
Only a drop in the ocean, eh? They did something. What did you do? They found one thing that they CAN do, and did it. Maybe some day the chinese will do one thing also. Or several. I'm sure the US is never going to do a damn thing. They seem selfish assholes.
Doing something worthless is a distraction from action that could be more worthwhile, and therefore is a net negative. As is calling an entire nation "selfish assholes". But that's the sort of SHITE that gets modded up on slashdot these days.
I think "religious choice" is a bit strong. it would be more correct to say that it is part of the furniture for adherents to some religions. I know plenty of people who are not religious and also don't like to eat meat. There is anyway a great military tradition of avoiding meat; Roman Legionaries for example were pretty hardcore guys but hated meat and if they were forced to eat it through circumstances (run out of other things to eat) then unrest and perhaps even near-mutinies were not uncommon.
"Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace." V.Stone, Microsoft Corporation
Frag the mess sergeant.
"Whenever the cause of the people is entrusted to professors, it is lost." ~ V.I. Lenin
1+
Stupid vegan cultists
A comment form our Norwegian representative was clandestinely recorded last night at his private home: NØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØ!!!
This is just a way for the Norwegian Military to cover the fact that they want to save money...
Meat prices in Norway is extremely high due to a screwed up market because of their income from oil...
Seriously, what is the basis for this idea?
AFIAK, live stock are not fed coal or petrol. So any carbon that they emit must come from the CO2 that was stored in te plants that they eat during there lifetime. So how does that add to global warming? If the plant material was not eaten by the live stock, it would have been eaten by other animals (like humans) or would have rotted away.
Humans can't directly digest most plant material so we have to burn fuel to cook it, thus producing CO2. Also raw plant material has less calories/kg then most meats, we would have to transport more to feed all people in the world. If other animals animals ate the plants I don't see why the would not produce the same amount of gasses compared to live stock. If it was rotting away, some of the material would eventually become coal, but most of it would enter the atmosphere as methane.
So how am I wrong here?
Huh? How the hell does religion come into play when the discussion is about vegetarianism? My wife almost completely doesn't eat meat, has nothing to do with any beliefs, she just doesn't like it that much. I do notice myself feeling way friskier and lighter if I don't eat meat for a while. I just like the taste of it, so I do eat it. But eating no meat for a while feels great. If they didn't tell anyone it might well be the norweigians would not have even notice every monday is a no-meat day. I'd think they have had days with no animal protein before this, as not all foods require meat or fish.
When i were in conscription (5 years ago in the kings guard) they served fish every tuesday. I have just recently began eating fish again, and i am still curious to what they did to that fish to make it taste so awful that i completely stopped eating fish.
you got any idea how many stomach staplings they are doing in india per dat? they got plenty of rich people who can afford to eat and who eat meat too.
the problem is that the only sport they care about nobody gives a fuck about...
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Can I have the contact info for your supplier/dealer?
It looks like you are getting the good stuff!
This is purely a political gesture. There's actually a good chance that nothing will be happening on the ground at all, and that the whole reason of the announcement is purely to have a little bit of publicity.
Most green activism is about publicity. When you actually ask what is being done, you often find that it's nothing. people make a video, a logo, change a product name and then move on, after taking a big whack of taxpayer's money for 'environmental services'...
Isn't it better to kill the beasts that are producing the methane and eat them rather than leave them alive to produce more methane?
Operationally, vegetarianism is much better for a mobile army.
You use up a LOT of water to digest proteins in meat and you have to carry that.
You cannot digest meat if you're already hungry: you need calories to break the food up. Which means a starter meal needs to be carried, and one that digests quicly enough to allow you to eat the rest of the meal.
Vegetables are a much better deal for a soldier on manoevers than meat.
How much outrage would there be if this were reversed, and perhaps for health reasons, the Norwegian Army would force vegetarians/vegans to eat meat once a week?
And nobody is pretending there is a good reason like health concerns behind this move. They're saving some money feeding their soldiers cheaper foods, while others have no such requirements.
Let's see all the politicians strictly holding themselves to Meatless Mondays first. Then we'll talk.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
So how am I wrong here?
I will give it a shot...
It is not really a question of you being right or wrong, it is more an issue of you just seeing the 'surface', and not the underneath workings.
'On the surface', you are correct in all of your statements/arguments, but 'on the surface' you are not accounting for the 'underneath workings' of how livestock are feed for market, and the greenhouse contributions caused indirectly from that process.
It takes considerable energy to plant, grow, harvest, process, and transport the 'plants' (think high protein 'plants' like grains (here in the USA, primarily corn) to the feed lots where thousands of animals are confined and force fed.
Do a little research on feedlots, and you will start seeing a bigger picture.
If the food animals were free roaming, and just eating what's naturally growing, you would be correct, but that's not the case.
There are a lot of other factors involved, but this should be enough to get you started.
I apologize for not explaining better, but best I could do this early in the day. :-)
I hope this clears up your question.
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
Or is it just petty small mindedness on your part?
But the population isn't really increasing in the western world where we have all the food we can eat. By your reasoning western populations should be increasing a lot.
The population is increasing alarmingly in the UK. It has risen 20% in my lifetime, with vast areas of countryside built over in thet time A further 17% increase officially predicted in the next 25 years.
The number of people will stop increasing when also poor countries have enough food and good health care so that parents are confident that the children they get will reach adulthood.
Wishful thinking. It is culturally ingrained in many of those societies that the number of children you have is a status symbol, a virility statement. Osama bin Laden's father had 56 children and it wasn't because he was worried about health care.
Healthier troops.
The US military got fatter along with the rest of the nation. It wouldn't be a bad idea to have similar dietary changes at chow halls to spread awareness. Chow has gotten much better in recent decades, as have MREs (some of which are vegetarian), but there's still room for improvement.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
or furs.
Or, indeed, child porn.
Remove the market and you reduce the occurrence of the supply of that market.
Norway doesn't exactly have a very busy military, so I guess they can get away with turning their troops into skinny little weaklings. They'll be issued MacBook Airs next.
Livestock are fed crops that are grown using fertilisers that are made from oil. The fertiliser needs to be extracted, processed and transported. Livestock need large amounts of land to grow the crops they eat, and this is a large part of why the rainforests and wetlands around the globe are being destroyed contributing further to increased CO2 and methane emissions, and reducing carbon capture in soils. When the livestock eat the crops they turn a large proportion into methane which is a worse greenhouse gas than CO2. It is an order of magnitude more efficient just to grow crops and feed them to people instead of wasting 90% by passing it through animals first.
Korma: Good
until your army gets a case of the rickets.
It was me.
Nice anecdote, but there are also plenty of successful vegetarian athletes.
That is the WORST day to enforce this on. The only thing that prevents me from aborting the Monday morning mission is Bacon.
In a pinch, a fried Spam sandwich will do. No meat at all on Mondays? They are trying to start World War 3!
No, Christianity does NOT have similar rules for non-Christians. Some who have claimed to follow Christianity may have, but they have to make it up. (creative excuses for discrimination seems all too common for most humans through history.)
Ghettos started as segregation of Jews, in places they were not treated well, in other gettos they were treated VERY well, encouraged to settle, and left alone to practice Judaism without restraint.
Distance from my home and work: 16 miles
Distance from my home and nearest gas station: 3.5 miles
Distance from my home to nearest grocery store: 10 miles
No public transit available. Round trip to grocery store would cost ~$40 in a taxi if one was available at that time.
I live closer to work than some people. My commute is shorter in time due to less congestion on the roads I have to drive on.
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
Why not just put on a dress and swish around for a bit?
Vegetarianism is a religious choice and it is horrible to see that choice foisted upon people. Usually it is weirdo movie stars or musicians trying to force the crew working on their productions to do this crap; not sensible countries and their militaries. The furthest this should go is to give the soldiers a Vegetarian option and go no further.
Plus, every time a person eats a meatless meal, Baby NASCAR Jesus strangles a puppy.
Is there an energy use study that factors out transportation energy usage? You blew by this difference pretty easily but it must have a huge impact.
I come here for the love
A fun aside: When I was growing up in Poland during the communist era, 98% of the population identified themselves as Catholic and subsequently didn't eat meat on Fridays. The communist regime saw the Catholic Church as its enemy, it ordered all public institutions with cafeterias to serve meat on Fridays and have Meatless Mondays.
Mass transit = twice as slow, when only one vehicle is involved. If you have to transfer to a second mass transit vehicle, figure the trip will take three times as long. Who has this kind of time to waste?
Biking is great, assuming (1) distance is doable, (2) you have a safe place for your bike, (3) you are provided with shower facilities. But if you are provided all of these, you are in a microscopic minority. And how do you carry stuff on a bike? Like other adults?
I lean more toward smaller vehicles, and electric ones...
I come here for the love
A Raw Vegan Plant-Based Diet is the way to go, Google is your friend!
What kind of stupid shit knee jerk nonsense reaction is this? Tell ya what, why don't you have all your people hold their fucking breath on Mondays to reduce CO2 emissions instead, starting with the government? Or start culling your own population? Start dreaming of the potential savings now! OMFG! And while you do something as stupid as skipping a meal, up pops a volcano in Japan, spewing what? How many meals are you gonna have to skip to make up for that? Keep holding your breath dumb fucks!
"So how am I wrong here?"
You are wrong because the Green religion is defined as a mix of socialism and new-age thinking - this includes vegetarianism as an approved life-style option.
Therefore any argument that suports it is automatically right, while anything which opposes it is automatically facist, evil, paid for by big oil, corrupt denialism....
I think I've been converted to the ShitPiss Christian denomination by this post.
I will proceed to convert others by shitting and pissing on them to show them God's warm smelly love.
So is green militarism the next big thing in greenwashing? Sustainable war. Kill other human beings indiscriminately while lessening your carbon footprint. I'm sure someone could pass off World War III as a solution to overpopulation.
Livestock are fed crops that are grown using fertilisers that are made from oil.
Fertilizers are not made from oil. Some are made from natural gas, but most are not from any sort of hydrocarbon at all.
Lots of folks here seem to be stuck in the consumer mindset, but reducing meat intake, along with oil consumption is one of the smartest things one can do. The human body is meant for walking, running, & eating mostly produce, with meat on occasion. The American lifestyle is a ticket to obesity & heart failure.
Vegetarians? Is Norway truly that mentally unstable? I guess they are trying to kill off their army .... such a stupid country.
Wish it were Sunday
That's my fun day
My burger-on-a-bun day
It's just another Meatless Monday.
Laughter is the Spackle of the Soul.
Fascist Tyrannical Xenophobic yet Politically Correct Hindutva HQ call center [cue tablas, sitars, George Harrison music, etc. in background]
[Associate 1]: Zomeone called in about a GurZikh family enjoying a tazty jhatka-slaughtered goat dish in Fatehgarh Zahib!
[Associate 2]: GASP! That iz dizguzting! It iz an affront to the Brahman and Mata Bharatiya! Alert Emergency Responze and Punjab Poliz Fake Encounter Unit! We will not zleep tonight until they are ashes! [cue sirens and fire alarm bells]
[A convoy of green Ford Falcons...oops, that's Argentina!--A swarm of bicyclists with flaming torches, tires and cans of petrol rush out into the night..(oh, you mean like the type of vermin that attacked Prabhjot Singh some months ago?)
[cue "1999" by Prince]
[cyclists]: Do go asking about who we're looking for / Tonight we're gonna party like it's 1984...
Good for you, I can't (edit).
I never doubted Indians have enough to eat to get fat, not sure what your point is. Also, I just relayed a comment from an Indian friend, I know nothing about the country.
Let me guess - who didn't grow up vegetarian and who put a lot of effort into eating the right things. According to a medical lecture somewhere under [URL] you get vital nutrients like amino acids much more easily and without doing all that research into your food when you also eat meat. URL: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0JRvRB-VkJ3yeSEdXpe9ew
http://www.mnn.com/food/healthy-eating/questions/animal-or-vegetable-the-truth-about-protein and the one downside they note about meat, cholesterol and saturated fats, there was just recently an article where some leading figures in medicine debunked the whole thing. Or it was part of the controversy about the change in the recommendation for statins in the US, one of them. and by the way, quoting any individual study on pubmed is a sign that either you don't know what you are talking about, or you are deliberately misleading. and also, nobody doubts that (as an adult! children excepted) you can eat a healthy vegan (even!) diet. But you have to do a lot of research that when eating meat too you don't have to do to have all the nutrients.
It'll be pink uniforms next, followed by moisturiser rations and manbags. I hope they employ manicurists too.
The tanks will be replaced by Smart Cars and Nissan Figaros.
Having said that, it might make them more fierce in combat, especially if the enemy has better rations e.g. Halal kebabs with chili sauce.
Stick Men
I wonder if naysayers ever realize that the clothes they wear, the music they listen to, the cars they drive, and the neologisms they use all originated in highly intellectual urban environments, like Germany, Oslo, NYC, and San Francisco? Vegetarianism and environmentalism are the future because they sustain the future. Children are growing up in school environments being taught the disastrous consequences of a fuck-everyone consumeristic culture that the 40-90s generations indulged in.
A meat-loving way of life is on the way out, and fast. Education reforms and urban culture will make sure of it.
The CIA's World Factbook gives the world population as 7,021,836,029 (July 2012 est.) and the distribution of religions as Christian 31.59% (of which Roman Catholic 18.85%, Protestant 8.15%, Orthodox 4.96%, Anglican 1.26%), Muslim 23.2%, Hindu 15.0%, Buddhist 7.1%, Sikh 0.35%, Jewish 0.2%, Baha'i 0.11%, other religions 10.95%, non-religious 9.66%, atheists 2.01%. (2010 est.).[1]
From wikipedia, but probably quite close. Note that Orthdodox Christians have historically been to the right of Catholics, so you should probably add their 5%.
Sorry, but the overwhelming majority of Christians belong to groups whose overall effect on society is profoundly negative, and often violent.
...is that Norway has an army!
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
I wonder if this is halfassed try at international image damage control after showing as the IPCC bullies yesterday...
http://atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/GECON-01-211113.html
Global warming/ Climate change is all about LIFE CONTROL.
Humanity did not spend the years from 1946 to 1991 in constant fear of hair-trigger nuclear annihilation just to surrender liberties. Surrendering to a mob of crony capitalist thugs who are pumping money to scientists. Scientists to who announce doom to make the rest of us surrender human dignity as expressed in the liberties secured by the collapse of the Soviet Union and with it the threat of nuclear annihilation.
I will not live worse a Dalit so that Al Gore, George Soros and his ilk can live better than Devis.
Laughing so hard I sharted!
I mean that the vegetarianism itself is the religion. I would very much doubt that this is a policy dreamed up by someone who eats meat.
With that much roughage, will they 'bean power' their equipment in addition to their people?
It's all the meat he eats.
Because massive farming of uni-crops is environmentally friendly, or are all Norway's veggies taken from small, diverse, strictly organic farms?
And meanwhile, military vehicles are hardly known for the fuel and combustion efficiency.
Whatever. Wonder what the real reason is?
"Consensus" in science is _always_ a political construct.