It doesn't really matter either way. No government is going to sit idly by while thousands of its citizens are slaughtered by terrorist attacks. The action by the coalition of Sheriff's departments is nothing special.
When terrorists become more of a threat than ladders, maybe then I'll consider thinking about giving the government new powers to stop them.
I hate to break it to you, but government at all levels in the US, UK, Canada, Australia, Europe, and indeed, pretty much the entire world save various tribes in the Amazon, New Guinea, certain parts of Africa, have been using phones for some time. They have also used TIPs lines for a very long time. No new power needed to do this.
It looks to me that the 9/11 attacks killed about 7.5x the number of people that died from ladders in 2001. The fact that it hasn't been repeated isn't an accident, but rather hard work, and actively taken measures.
In the UK, the 7/7 attacks appear to have equalled it. Her Majesty's government continues to fight the problem. Example: "Bomb plot : Life sentence for Irfan Naseer, ringleader of Birmingham men planning wave of UK suicide attacks"
Until them, fuck off you dictator wannabee.
I would say your civility and insight have converged on this matter.
No, it doesn't because it is irrelevant. The US lost more than 100x the number of people that died at Pearl Harbor in WW2, but it still went to war against Japan, Germany, and Italy. The problem they presented wasn't going to go away by doing nothing. I expect that far more people at the time died of accidents of various sorts than were killed in the attack. Not relevant. The problem of Al Qaida is the same - it won't go away by itself. but will only get worse if ignored. It has to be addressed to turn it around. The point about suicide versus battlefield casualties doesn't negate that and is irrelevant. Although I will take a moment to recognize the considerable improvements in battlefield medicine and personal protection through various means which have resulted in a much lower death rate than previous conflicts - fabulous work.
On a tangential note, you might want to find out what Al Qaida's goals are. They are ultimately independent of US actions.
The Future of Terrorism: What al-Qaida Really Wants The short version: Restore the Islamic Caliphate dissolved in 1923, take over the work, and convert the world to Islam. It is a long term goal. You may not think that is realistic, but that is what they fight and kill for.
I take it then that it didn't, and probably never would, occur to you that they might simply be conducting reconnaissance to see if an attack is feasible? You do know that Al Qaida agents have been caught more than once doing that?
So, you don't want to live in a state of perpetual fear? May I assume then that you don't bother to check both ways before crossing the street since that would be "giving in to fear" of being hit by a car? And perhaps drinking water from the toilet wouldn't bother you because you refuse to "live in fear" of disease? And insurance? Doesn't that just show you are living in fear of an accident? Apparently in your world, people don't do things that are prudent, they only act out of fear. Pity that.
And people die from vaccine as well. May I take it that you oppose vaccination? Most societies find it disagreeable when dozens to hundreds, let alone thousands, of their citizens are killed by hostile agents in a single event and will generally do something about it. Your suggestion that more people die from everyday things than terrorists is frivolous on more than one count.
He is applying his brain and professional experience and training to make an assessment. You aren't doing the first, and probably aren't qualified to do the second. It is really astonishing that you can't figure out that there just might be something suspicious there.
"The Stasi motto was "Schild und Schwert der Partei" (Shield and Sword of the Party), that is the ruling Socialist Unity Party of Germany (SED)." They were very up front about their mission - political control.
1) The fact this program ('report suspected terrorists') exists must mean that there are terrorists out there. I'm afraid.
Since terrorists are known to exist already, and in fact recently conducted a successful attack, how does that change anything? It doesn't. Your point is nonsense.
2) I need to buy a new pressure cooker for the big meal I'm cooking... what if I get reported as a possible terrorist?? I'm afraid.
Because you couldn't have been reported before? Once again nonsense.
Apparently "fear" is the keyword for good moderation. Just suggest that people will live in fear, and Bobs your uncle, +5.
Apparently a lot of people here live in fear of living in fear to the point they post and positive moderate nonsense.
Do you know how to tell the difference between a "boogey-man" and a real threat? Real threats leave dead bodies when they aren't caught before hand. If you check the record, the terrorist have actually managed to kill large numbers of people in many countries, including many in Europe, even the UK.
The first time local law enforcement says, "Reports of terrorism are up 900% this year; we need an increased budget to deal with the increased threat."
Law enforcement doesn't approve their own budget, it get scrutiny from the governing body. Claiming that tips, as opposed to actual incidents or meaningful investigation, will drive up the budget by 900% is nonsense. Of course you have an unintended insight to offer there. If the police were to make the claim you suggest, it would be disingenuous, as is your point, and many of the posts I'm reading in this thread.
State Police say there were no warrants or advisories on any of the individuals and "there was no evidence that the seven were committing any crime beyond the trespassing."
How does that justify a tip line for people to report suspected terrorist activity?
Reconnaissance of vulnerable targets.
Even if those people were trying to poison the water, that reservoir holds 412 billion gallons of water. You would have to dump tanker truck loads of poison it before you'd have any chance of making anyone sick.
You only have sufficiently dense poison of sufficient toxicity at the water intake. You don't have to have a uniform distribution of poison or biological substance through the entire reservoir. In the same way, poison only needs to get to your heart or brain, not your little toe.
There's simply no way that seven people trespassing can carry enough of anything to have any real effect, yet that's exactly the sort of thing that would get reported to the tip line (along with crazy people reporting their neighbors and all the people reporting Florida Man).
Since you can't piece it together, I'll lay it out: 7 people conduct reconnaissance, note where the water intakes are, and identify routes to the place. At some future time, either they or others return driving trucks of toxic substance and dump it at the water intake, achieving lethal density of toxins.
But I forget myself, we should only be picking up bodies, not preventing them from being poisoned.
Your post provided negative information. You didn't even manage to repeat back their justification for being there, but instead came up with something else. People reading your post are less informed, or better - misinformed, after reading it than if they hadn't read it at all.
So, an "education session" after midnight, in the dark, when you can't see very far, at a geophysical structure known for being enormous is size - where you would have to see far to see much of anything, after trespassing to do it, is part of their "continuing education?"
You don't go to broom closets to watch ball games, do you?
Nothing about the totality of the incident raises even just a sliver of curiosity?
wtf is wrong with you?
I could ask the same of you, and that moderator.
I'll tell you what . ..if there are many people in your society that think like you do, especially people responsible for public safety, there will be some real leaning that is likely to happen eventually. I just doubt you will enjoy the lesson.
So, they were they to sightsee one of the largest American "chemical processing structures" . . . after midnight . . because it improves the view? You can see easier in the dark? And they had to trespass to do it.
A reservoir is in essence nothing more than a big tank of water. By your criteria, a water glass is a "man made chemical(water) processing structure." No "processing" takes place in a reservoir, it just hold massive quantities of water, that's it. Actual water treatment that involves chemicals takes place in actual water treatment plants.
On the other hand, a reservoir is a place where one might introduce poisons that could be selected with a knowledge of . . . wait for it . . . chemical engineering to make it through treatment unaffected and into the "man made chemical(water) processing structure" (AKA drinking glass) on your table that you sip from time to time.
Well, whatever was going on, I'm sure someone will get it figured out eventually. It obviously won't be you though. Maybe it was innocent, maybe not.
BELCHERTOWN (CBS) – Shortly after midnight Tuesday, seven people were caught trespassing at the Quabbin Reservoir.
State Police say the five men and two women are from Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Singapore, and “cited their education and career interests” for being in the area. The men told police they were chemical engineers and recent college graduates.
The Quabbin, in Belchertown, is one of the country’s largest man-made public water supplies. Boston’s drinking water comes from the Quabbin and the Wachusett Reservoirs.
Slashdot Mirror
It doesn't really matter either way. No government is going to sit idly by while thousands of its citizens are slaughtered by terrorist attacks. The action by the coalition of Sheriff's departments is nothing special.
Facts are stubborn things.
When terrorists become more of a threat than ladders, maybe then I'll consider thinking about giving the government new powers to stop them.
I hate to break it to you, but government at all levels in the US, UK, Canada, Australia, Europe, and indeed, pretty much the entire world save various tribes in the Amazon, New Guinea, certain parts of Africa, have been using phones for some time. They have also used TIPs lines for a very long time. No new power needed to do this.
It looks to me that the 9/11 attacks killed about 7.5x the number of people that died from ladders in 2001. The fact that it hasn't been repeated isn't an accident, but rather hard work, and actively taken measures.
In the UK, the 7/7 attacks appear to have equalled it. Her Majesty's government continues to fight the problem. Example: "Bomb plot : Life sentence for Irfan Naseer, ringleader of Birmingham men planning wave of UK suicide attacks"
Until them, fuck off you dictator wannabee.
I would say your civility and insight have converged on this matter.
No, it doesn't because it is irrelevant. The US lost more than 100x the number of people that died at Pearl Harbor in WW2, but it still went to war against Japan, Germany, and Italy. The problem they presented wasn't going to go away by doing nothing. I expect that far more people at the time died of accidents of various sorts than were killed in the attack. Not relevant. The problem of Al Qaida is the same - it won't go away by itself. but will only get worse if ignored. It has to be addressed to turn it around. The point about suicide versus battlefield casualties doesn't negate that and is irrelevant. Although I will take a moment to recognize the considerable improvements in battlefield medicine and personal protection through various means which have resulted in a much lower death rate than previous conflicts - fabulous work.
On a tangential note, you might want to find out what Al Qaida's goals are. They are ultimately independent of US actions.
The Future of Terrorism: What al-Qaida Really Wants
The short version: Restore the Islamic Caliphate dissolved in 1923, take over the work, and convert the world to Islam. It is a long term goal. You may not think that is realistic, but that is what they fight and kill for.
Including this lot: Bomb plot: Life sentence for Irfan Naseer, ringleader of Birmingham men planning wave of UK suicide attacks
I take it then that it didn't, and probably never would, occur to you that they might simply be conducting reconnaissance to see if an attack is feasible? You do know that Al Qaida agents have been caught more than once doing that?
So, you don't want to live in a state of perpetual fear? May I assume then that you don't bother to check both ways before crossing the street since that would be "giving in to fear" of being hit by a car? And perhaps drinking water from the toilet wouldn't bother you because you refuse to "live in fear" of disease? And insurance? Doesn't that just show you are living in fear of an accident? Apparently in your world, people don't do things that are prudent, they only act out of fear. Pity that.
You are overlooking one other important, and much more likely, possibility. Can you guess? Do you need a clue*?
* Repeat that last sentence while looking in a mirror.
And people die from vaccine as well. May I take it that you oppose vaccination? Most societies find it disagreeable when dozens to hundreds, let alone thousands, of their citizens are killed by hostile agents in a single event and will generally do something about it. Your suggestion that more people die from everyday things than terrorists is frivolous on more than one count.
He is applying his brain and professional experience and training to make an assessment. You aren't doing the first, and probably aren't qualified to do the second. It is really astonishing that you can't figure out that there just might be something suspicious there.
That cover story gets blown when you arrest people for making jokes about the president. Ref: See Putin & Pussy Riot
"The Stasi motto was "Schild und Schwert der Partei" (Shield and Sword of the Party), that is the ruling Socialist Unity Party of Germany (SED)." They were very up front about their mission - political control.
Yes, I've noticed that, you seem to be sure of a lot of things that aren't so.
"The Stasi motto was "Schild und Schwert der Partei" (Shield and Sword of the Party), that is the ruling Socialist Unity Party of Germany (SED)."
1) The fact this program ('report suspected terrorists') exists must mean that there are terrorists out there. I'm afraid.
Since terrorists are known to exist already, and in fact recently conducted a successful attack, how does that change anything? It doesn't. Your point is nonsense.
2) I need to buy a new pressure cooker for the big meal I'm cooking... what if I get reported as a possible terrorist?? I'm afraid.
Because you couldn't have been reported before? Once again nonsense.
Apparently "fear" is the keyword for good moderation. Just suggest that people will live in fear, and Bobs your uncle, +5.
Apparently a lot of people here live in fear of living in fear to the point they post and positive moderate nonsense.
Do you know how to tell the difference between a "boogey-man" and a real threat? Real threats leave dead bodies when they aren't caught before hand. If you check the record, the terrorist have actually managed to kill large numbers of people in many countries, including many in Europe, even the UK.
The first time local law enforcement says, "Reports of terrorism are up 900% this year; we need an increased budget to deal with the increased threat."
Law enforcement doesn't approve their own budget, it get scrutiny from the governing body. Claiming that tips, as opposed to actual incidents or meaningful investigation, will drive up the budget by 900% is nonsense. Of course you have an unintended insight to offer there. If the police were to make the claim you suggest, it would be disingenuous, as is your point, and many of the posts I'm reading in this thread.
State Police say there were no warrants or advisories on any of the individuals and "there was no evidence that the seven were committing any crime beyond the trespassing."
How does that justify a tip line for people to report suspected terrorist activity?
Reconnaissance of vulnerable targets.
Even if those people were trying to poison the water, that reservoir holds 412 billion gallons of water. You would have to dump tanker truck loads of poison it before you'd have any chance of making anyone sick.
You only have sufficiently dense poison of sufficient toxicity at the water intake. You don't have to have a uniform distribution of poison or biological substance through the entire reservoir. In the same way, poison only needs to get to your heart or brain, not your little toe.
There's simply no way that seven people trespassing can carry enough of anything to have any real effect, yet that's exactly the sort of thing that would get reported to the tip line (along with crazy people reporting their neighbors and all the people reporting Florida Man).
Since you can't piece it together, I'll lay it out: 7 people conduct reconnaissance, note where the water intakes are, and identify routes to the place. At some future time, either they or others return driving trucks of toxic substance and dump it at the water intake, achieving lethal density of toxins.
But I forget myself, we should only be picking up bodies, not preventing them from being poisoned.
I see your logic. The proper thing to do then is replace this system with an issue of brooms to the police for clean up after events since tips from concerned citizens never solve terrorist cases or prevent terrorist attacks.
Got it.
Here is tip, comrade, everyone is a terrorist, but me!
I don't think you are a terrorist, just a troll.
Your post provided negative information. You didn't even manage to repeat back their justification for being there, but instead came up with something else. People reading your post are less informed, or better - misinformed, after reading it than if they hadn't read it at all.
So, an "education session" after midnight, in the dark, when you can't see very far, at a geophysical structure known for being enormous is size - where you would have to see far to see much of anything, after trespassing to do it, is part of their "continuing education?"
You don't go to broom closets to watch ball games, do you?
Nothing about the totality of the incident raises even just a sliver of curiosity?
wtf is wrong with you?
I could ask the same of you, and that moderator.
I'll tell you what . . .if there are many people in your society that think like you do, especially people responsible for public safety, there will be some real leaning that is likely to happen eventually. I just doubt you will enjoy the lesson.
So, they were they to sightsee one of the largest American "chemical processing structures" . . . after midnight . . because it improves the view? You can see easier in the dark? And they had to trespass to do it.
A reservoir is in essence nothing more than a big tank of water. By your criteria, a water glass is a "man made chemical(water) processing structure." No "processing" takes place in a reservoir, it just hold massive quantities of water, that's it. Actual water treatment that involves chemicals takes place in actual water treatment plants.
On the other hand, a reservoir is a place where one might introduce poisons that could be selected with a knowledge of . . . wait for it . . . chemical engineering to make it through treatment unaffected and into the "man made chemical(water) processing structure" (AKA drinking glass) on your table that you sip from time to time.
Well, whatever was going on, I'm sure someone will get it figured out eventually. It obviously won't be you though. Maybe it was innocent, maybe not.
Not every terrorist has attacking as their mission. NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE & CITIGROUP HEADQUARTERS
Mirror: FBI hunting 12-strong sleeper cell linked to Boston Marathon bombing Hmmm, Boston? Isn't that close to some recent news item?
One last thing - I find the level of intellectual dishonesty in your post absolutely stunning.
The Stasi was primarily an organ of political control, not an anti-terrorism or ordinary local law enforcement.
Trying to draw a parallel is nonsense.
This is for increasing the level of fear in citizens in order to make privacy invasion more acceptable.
And since it will be the police getting the reports, how do you figure it will increase the level of fear in citizens?
Or add more needles. Maybe you've heard that eye-witness reports can be helpful to police?
Citizens’ tips solve an average of two crimes a day
911 is for emergencies. They are looking for tips.
7 Caught Trespassing At Quabbin Reservoir; Patrols Stepped Up Across State
BELCHERTOWN (CBS) – Shortly after midnight Tuesday, seven people were caught trespassing at the Quabbin Reservoir.
State Police say the five men and two women are from Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Singapore, and “cited their education and career interests” for being in the area. The men told police they were chemical engineers and recent college graduates.
The Quabbin, in Belchertown, is one of the country’s largest man-made public water supplies. Boston’s drinking water comes from the Quabbin and the Wachusett Reservoirs.