A couple of things wrong with that interpretation. First, all of the subjects in the study apparently received treatment, the independent variable was belief in God. So, there isn't really any placebo in the study. Second, the placebo effect has been studied with an interesting result:
CONCLUSIONS: We found little evidence in general that placebos had powerful clinical effects. Although placebos had no significant effects on objective or binary outcomes, they had possible small benefits in studies with continuous subjective outcomes and for the treatment of pain. Outside the setting of clinical trials, there is no justification for the use of placebos.
Third, it isn't hard to find educated, accomplished people that believe in God, including many doctors:
A couple of things wrong with that interpretation. First, all of the subjects in the study apparently received treatment, the independent variable was belief in God. So, there isn't really any placebo in the study. Second, the placebo effect has been studied with an interesting result:
CONCLUSIONS: We found little evidence in general that placebos had powerful clinical effects. Although placebos had no significant effects on objective or binary outcomes, they had possible small benefits in studies with continuous subjective outcomes and for the treatment of pain. Outside the setting of clinical trials, there is no justification for the use of placebos.
Editor's note: Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D., is the director of the Human Genome Project. His most recent book is The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief.
ROCKVILLE, Maryland (CNN) -- I am a scientist and a believer, and I find no conflict between those world views.
As the director of the Human Genome Project, I have led a consortium of scientists to read out the 3.1 billion letters of the human genome, our own DNA instruction book. As a believer, I see DNA, the information molecule of all living things, as God's language, and the elegance and complexity of our own bodies and the rest of nature as a reflection of God's plan.
I did not always embrace these perspectives. As a graduate student in physical chemistry in the 1970s, I was an atheist, finding no reason to postulate the existence of any truths outside of mathematics, physics and chemistry. But then I went to medical school, and encountered life and death issues at the bedsides of my patients. Challenged by one of those patients, who asked "What do you believe, doctor?", I began searching for answers. . ..more
CHICAGO — A survey examining religion in medicine found that most U.S. doctors believe in God and an afterlife — a surprising degree of spirituality in a science-based field, researchers say.
In the survey of 1,044 doctors nationwide, 76 percent said they believe in God, 59 percent said they believe in some sort of afterlife, and 55 percent said their religious beliefs influence how they practice medicine. . ..more
Just think - if you go to see a doctor for depression, there is a good chance he or she will believe in God.
Interesting choice you made there - in essence identifying yourself with Colonel Jessup. You do realize that in that scene Colonel Jessup was covering up the truth and lying - he was shortly revealed to be a perjurer and was implicated in murder? The "truth" he offered was his justification for murder.
Your original post got things backwards, as I indicated. I'm not sure you have a useful truth to offer. But I'll be a good sport and share one with you.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. -- John 14:6
Over three hundred years ago King Louis XIV of France asked Blaise Pascal, the great French philosopher of his day, to give him proof of the existence of miracles. Without a moment's hesitation, Pascal answered,"Why, the Jews, your Majesty-the Jews." . ..more
It's not dogma unless someone is willing to burn you at the stake for it.
League of Militant Atheists --- Ordinary secret police will do as well, which is what was used in most Communist countries to suppress religion.
Now trying to distort the world to fit your worldview... THAT is dogma. You can't handle the fact that you are out of touch with some or most of the modern world so you find the need to attack or subvert it.
Based on the abstract and the article, that doesn't appear to be what is going on - that is use of religion as cognitive therapy. Belief in God appears to be the independent variable in the study. The subjects in the study that receive treatment and believe in God have better outcomes. Belief in God and religion aren't the treatment but effect the outcome.
(1972), 406 U.S. 441 -- Use and derivative use immunity is coextensive with the protection of the Fifth Amendment. If a person who has been compelled to testify under a grant of immunity is later prosecuted, it is the burden of the government to prove incriminating evidence is derived from a wholly independent source.
I believe there may be other possibilities as well.
Interesting. It turns out that European police* have access to both pepper spray and tear gas, and use them on students and other youth as well. Who would have thought it?
Const. Stefanie Trudeau first rose to local prominence earlier this year when video surfaced of her generously pepper-spraying a crowd of student protesters who appeared to pose no threat last May.
It's really quite astonishing that you would point to that incident, for more than one reason.
It is beyond ludicrous and well into disingenuous to try depicting the events at Kent State as a typical response to student protests on campuses in the United States. In 1980 there were about 3,200 colleges in the US, and now there are about 4,500. Across all those years at all those schools probably all of them have seen protests of one sort or another: the Viet Nam war, the draft, nuclear weapons, nuclear power, nuclear winter, Pershing and Tomahawk missiles in Europe, the Iraq War, tuition hikes, unpopular speakers on campus, and many other issues. And yet you can point to one mass shooting by authorities on one day, producing a total of four dead, and yet that is somehow representative of the American experience in regards to protests by students? No, it isn't, not at all.
Then there is your false assertion that Europe is more easy going towards student protest. Really? There are a few cases that pop up to show Europe can be pretty harsh - certainly harsher than the United States. Say what you will about the United States, at least student protests there haven't resulted in mass arrests and a pogrom driving 20,000 Jews out of the country (Many Europeans still have a problem with Jews. ), or the use of an Army tank battalion and active snipers against a student occupation - killing 24.
When their strike on November 14, 1973 elicited no response, students from Athens Polytechnic barricaded themselves inside the university, . . .
. . . They paid a high price. In the morning of November 17, 25 tanks rolled onto the streets and set themselves up in front of the University. Students requested permission to evacuate, but before the allotted time was up, one of the tanks crashed right through the front gates.
Others tried to flee and were taken out by nervous military snipers on the rooftops. The death toll came to at least 24, with hundreds more suffering injuries, and as many as 1,000 people were arrested. . .
On May 3, 1968, a student protest at the Sorbonne University nearly sparked a revolution. Protesting against the closure of the University of Paris at Nanterre and the planned expulsion of a number of Nanterre students, Sorbonne University students took to the streets en masse. ..
Over a period of several days, hundreds of students battled it out with police in Parisâ(TM)s Latin Quarter, setting up barricades, throwing rocks and braving tear gas. Discontentment with the political and economic conditions in France boiled to the surface, and what started out as a few student protests escalated into a month and a half of utter chaos, during which several people died and hundreds were injured.
There are certainly other events that could be mentioned.
Finally, the Wikipedia article doesn't really do justice to some imporant issues about Kent State.
The NRA (~ 4,200,000 members) dwarfs the size of the ACLU (~ 550,000 members) making it one of Americas largest, important civil rights organizations. You might find this interesting: NRA: Membership Has Grown by 250,000 in One Month
Do you think you will be referring to the ACLU as the 0.15% vocal minority?
As chief law enforcement officer for the county, Arpaio continues to reduce crime with hard-hitting enforcement methods. . . . The posse, whose ranks have increased to 3000 members under Arpaio, is the nation's largest volunteer posse. Posse men and women help in search and rescue and other traditional police work as well as in special operations like rounding up deadbeat parents, fighting prostitution, patrolling malls during holidays, and investigating animal cruelty complaints. The posse's contributions are invaluable and essentially free to taxpayers.
Wait, there's more! (This sort of law is common in the US.)
"901.18 Officer may summon assistance. -- A peace officer making a lawful arrest may command the aid of persons he deems necessary to make the arrest. A person commanded to aid shall render assistance as directed by the officer. A person commanded to aid a peace officer shall have the same authority to arrest as that peace officer and shall not be civilly liable for any reasonable conduct in rendering assistance to that officer." --- Advisory Legal Opinion - AGO 75-200
In most cases, this means you.
That's not all. If you are an American male, you are probably in the militia - US Federal, and state - even if you don't know it.
41.050. The militia of the state shall include all able-bodied citizens and all other able-bodied residents, who, in the case of the unorganized militia and the Missouri reserve military force, shall be more than seventeen years of age and not more than sixty-four, and such other persons as may upon their own application be enrolled or commissioned therein, and who, in the case of the organized militia, shall be within the age limits and possess the physical and mental qualifications prescribed by law or regulations for the reserve components of the Armed Forces of the United States, except that this section shall not be construed to require militia service of any persons specifically exempted by the laws of the United States or the state of Missouri. The maximum age requirement may be waived by the adjutant general on a case-by-case basis.
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied
males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section
313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a
declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States
and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the
National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are -
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard
and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members
If this is deemed as stupid as it sounds, especially in a supposedly free society and by a President that campaigned on unprecedented transparency, then this may be the start of something wonderful.
If you think that living in a free society with government transparency means you, and any random person that asks the janitor, librarian, or county judge, gets access to top secret intelligence data, encryption methods, war plans, nuclear release codes, the tax data from your neighbors, reviews of weakness in the security plans at the local nuclear plant, etc., etc., etc., then you haven't correctly identified where the label stupid should be attached in this discussion.
It would have been better to have started squawking about the Obama administration before the last election, don't you think?
Mr Obama's justice department has proposed that if documents requested by the public are exempt from freedom of information laws, federal agencies should be able to "respond to the request as if the excluded records did not exist."
Transparency campaigners described the move as a "stunning" reversal of Mr Obama's pledge to run "the most transparent administration in history" during his campaign for the presidency.
In a joint statement, the American Civil Liberties Union, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, and OpenTheGovernment.org said the plan threatens to "destroy integrity in government".
"It is very problematic," said Patrice McDermott, the director of OpenTheGovernment.org. "There are options open to them other than this nuclear option of lying to requesters".
The plan is the latest in a string of controversial moves by Mr Obama, who earlier this year even insisted on collecting an award for his commitment to transparency behind closed doors at the White House. --- Barack Obama accused of breaking transparency pledge
Slashdot Mirror
If you are inquisitive, perhaps you'll find an interesting challenge in explaining this?
A couple of things wrong with that interpretation. First, all of the subjects in the study apparently received treatment, the independent variable was belief in God. So, there isn't really any placebo in the study. Second, the placebo effect has been studied with an interesting result:
Is the placebo powerless? An analysis of clinical trials comparing placebo with no treatment
CONCLUSIONS:
We found little evidence in general that placebos had powerful clinical effects. Although placebos had no significant effects on objective or binary outcomes, they had possible small benefits in studies with continuous subjective outcomes and for the treatment of pain. Outside the setting of clinical trials, there is no justification for the use of placebos.
Third, it isn't hard to find educated, accomplished people that believe in God, including many doctors:
Collins: Why this scientist believes in God
Survey: Most doctors believe in God, afterlife
Just think - if you go to see a doctor for depression, there is a good chance he or she will believe in God.
Fourth, ignorance in this case isn't bliss, it is misery. Those who know God had better clinical outcomes.
A couple of things wrong with that interpretation. First, all of the subjects in the study apparently received treatment, the independent variable was belief in God. So, there isn't really any placebo in the study. Second, the placebo effect has been studied with an interesting result:
Is the placebo powerless? An analysis of clinical trials comparing placebo with no treatment
CONCLUSIONS:
We found little evidence in general that placebos had powerful clinical effects. Although placebos had no significant effects on objective or binary outcomes, they had possible small benefits in studies with continuous subjective outcomes and for the treatment of pain. Outside the setting of clinical trials, there is no justification for the use of placebos.
Believers are more likely to be less intelligent, which may reduce the risk of depression.
Believers in what? The nonexistence of God?
Collins: Why this scientist believes in God
Editor's note: Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D., is the director of the Human Genome Project. His most recent book is The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief.
ROCKVILLE, Maryland (CNN) -- I am a scientist and a believer, and I find no conflict between those world views.
As the director of the Human Genome Project, I have led a consortium of scientists to read out the 3.1 billion letters of the human genome, our own DNA instruction book. As a believer, I see DNA, the information molecule of all living things, as God's language, and the elegance and complexity of our own bodies and the rest of nature as a reflection of God's plan.
I did not always embrace these perspectives. As a graduate student in physical chemistry in the 1970s, I was an atheist, finding no reason to postulate the existence of any truths outside of mathematics, physics and chemistry. But then I went to medical school, and encountered life and death issues at the bedsides of my patients. Challenged by one of those patients, who asked "What do you believe, doctor?", I began searching for answers. . . .more
Survey: Most doctors believe in God, afterlife
CHICAGO — A survey examining religion in medicine found that most U.S. doctors believe in God and an afterlife — a surprising degree of spirituality in a science-based field, researchers say.
In the survey of 1,044 doctors nationwide, 76 percent said they believe in God, 59 percent said they believe in some sort of afterlife, and 55 percent said their religious beliefs influence how they practice medicine. . . .more
Just think - if you go to see a doctor for depression, there is a good chance he or she will believe in God.
One should be wary of embracing the "insights" and "wisdom" of George Bernard Shaw as there is some rather unsavory baggage there.
(A little more context - From start point (20:13) watch until at least 21:52).
belief in there being no god ~ Atheism (number of gods = 0)
Interesting choice you made there - in essence identifying yourself with Colonel Jessup. You do realize that in that scene Colonel Jessup was covering up the truth and lying - he was shortly revealed to be a perjurer and was implicated in murder? The "truth" he offered was his justification for murder.
Your original post got things backwards, as I indicated. I'm not sure you have a useful truth to offer. But I'll be a good sport and share one with you.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. -- John 14:6
The Miracle of Jewish History
Over three hundred years ago King Louis XIV of France asked Blaise Pascal, the great French philosopher of his day, to give him proof of the existence of miracles. Without a moment's hesitation, Pascal answered,"Why, the Jews, your Majesty-the Jews." . . .more
You misread the article. Knowing God leads to better mental health outcomes. Ignorance of God leads to prolonged misery. Ignorance is misery.
It is as Jesus said: you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.
I tend to think of it as a Slashdot community filled with raging Gods
I guess you still qualify as new here. If you pay more attention you'll see that's nonsense.
It's not dogma unless someone is willing to burn you at the stake for it.
League of Militant Atheists --- Ordinary secret police will do as well, which is what was used in most Communist countries to suppress religion.
Now trying to distort the world to fit your worldview... THAT is dogma. You can't handle the fact that you are out of touch with some or most of the modern world so you find the need to attack or subvert it.
That would be officially and militantly atheistic Communism. The results weren't pretty.
Based on the abstract and the article, that doesn't appear to be what is going on - that is use of religion as cognitive therapy. Belief in God appears to be the independent variable in the study. The subjects in the study that receive treatment and believe in God have better outcomes. Belief in God and religion aren't the treatment but effect the outcome.
Prevent suicides by making it unaffordable for people to conveniently kill themselves.
By drying up the supply of bridges and rope, or raising their price?
Sorry, but that is rubbish.
Tough Targets - When Criminals Face Armed Resistance from Citizens
Some supplemental reading:
Self-Defense: An Endangered Right
I am an idiot.
Should I mod that as informative or as insightful?
Recursive.
I don't think you quite nailed that.
Paul Potts sings Nessun Dorma
Wonderful, for more than one reason.
Where did the last sentence in this summary come from? It seems to be completely contradictory to the main content. Elaborate?
From summary: If the government has reasonable suspicion that you have illicit data, they can still compel you to decrypt it.
IANAL - however.... ;)
At least one possibility is that you can be granted immunity and compelled to testify or produce.
Kastigar v. United States
(1972), 406 U.S. 441 -- Use and derivative use immunity is coextensive with the protection of the Fifth Amendment. If a person who has been compelled to testify under a grant of immunity is later prosecuted, it is the burden of the government to prove incriminating evidence is derived from a wholly independent source.
I believe there may be other possibilities as well.
Interesting. It turns out that European police* have access to both pepper spray and tear gas, and use them on students and other youth as well. Who would have thought it?
Tear gas fired at Athens protest
French police fire tear gas at stone-throwing high school students
Pepper Spraying Seventh Graders?
Now I'm curious - are you Euroskeptic? I sometimes get the impression that you have no idea what happens in Europe.
* Honary mention of Canada: Montreal’s notorious “officer 728 suspended
Const. Stefanie Trudeau first rose to local prominence earlier this year when video surfaced of her generously pepper-spraying a crowd of student protesters who appeared to pose no threat last May.
Europe tends to have a more easy going attitude towards student protest than the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
It's really quite astonishing that you would point to that incident, for more than one reason.
It is beyond ludicrous and well into disingenuous to try depicting the events at Kent State as a typical response to student protests on campuses in the United States. In 1980 there were about 3,200 colleges in the US, and now there are about 4,500. Across all those years at all those schools probably all of them have seen protests of one sort or another: the Viet Nam war, the draft, nuclear weapons, nuclear power, nuclear winter, Pershing and Tomahawk missiles in Europe, the Iraq War, tuition hikes, unpopular speakers on campus, and many other issues. And yet you can point to one mass shooting by authorities on one day, producing a total of four dead, and yet that is somehow representative of the American experience in regards to protests by students? No, it isn't, not at all.
Then there is your false assertion that Europe is more easy going towards student protest. Really? There are a few cases that pop up to show Europe can be pretty harsh - certainly harsher than the United States. Say what you will about the United States, at least student protests there haven't resulted in mass arrests and a pogrom driving 20,000 Jews out of the country (Many Europeans still have a problem with Jews. ), or the use of an Army tank battalion and active snipers against a student occupation - killing 24.
Athens Polytechnic Uprising, Greece, 1973
When their strike on November 14, 1973 elicited no response, students from Athens Polytechnic barricaded themselves inside the university, . . .
. . . They paid a high price. In the morning of November 17, 25 tanks rolled onto the streets and set themselves up in front of the University. Students requested permission to evacuate, but before the allotted time was up, one of the tanks crashed right through the front gates.
Others tried to flee and were taken out by nervous military snipers on the rooftops. The death toll came to at least 24, with hundreds more suffering injuries, and as many as 1,000 people were arrested. . .
1968, Warsaw Poland
Student protests result in thousands of arrests and ultimately in an antisemitic campaign by the government that drove 20,000 Jews from Poland.
May 1968 Protests, France
On May 3, 1968, a student protest at the Sorbonne University nearly sparked a revolution. Protesting against the closure of the University of Paris at Nanterre and the planned expulsion of a number of Nanterre students, Sorbonne University students took to the streets en masse. . .
Over a period of several days, hundreds of students battled it out with police in Parisâ(TM)s Latin Quarter, setting up barricades, throwing rocks and braving tear gas. Discontentment with the political and economic conditions in France boiled to the surface, and what started out as a few student protests escalated into a month and a half of utter chaos, during which several people died and hundreds were injured.
There are certainly other events that could be mentioned.
Finally, the Wikipedia article doesn't really do justice to some imporant issues about Kent State.
New light shed o
The NRA (~ 4,200,000 members) dwarfs the size of the ACLU (~ 550,000 members) making it one of Americas largest, important civil rights organizations. You might find this interesting: NRA: Membership Has Grown by 250,000 in One Month
Do you think you will be referring to the ACLU as the 0.15% vocal minority?
NRA Has 54% Favorable Image in U.S.
USA Today: Support for gun control bill falls below 50%
Despite the protests of the NRA, you can buy firearms, even in Boston.
In fairness it is an impaired ability.
Crime soared with Mass. gun law
What the militia-loving fantasists overlook in their zealousness is that a militia never overcame a large military power.
Tell it to the Viet Minh.
Who the fuck cares about facial recognition, I say arm the citizens and save money and time.
Go to Somalia and find out how good that works out.
Why go to Somalia? You don't have to travel outside of the United States. (And many countries have one or more of these sorts of laws.)
America's Toughest Sheriff, Joe Arpaio
As chief law enforcement officer for the county, Arpaio continues to reduce crime with hard-hitting enforcement methods. . . . The posse, whose ranks have increased to 3000 members under Arpaio, is the nation's largest volunteer posse. Posse men and women help in search and rescue and other traditional police work as well as in special operations like rounding up deadbeat parents, fighting prostitution, patrolling malls during holidays, and investigating animal cruelty complaints. The posse's contributions are invaluable and essentially free to taxpayers.
POSSE
Wait, there's more! (This sort of law is common in the US.)
"901.18 Officer may summon assistance. -- A peace officer making a lawful arrest may command the aid of persons he deems necessary to make the arrest. A person commanded to aid shall render assistance as directed by the officer. A person commanded to aid a peace officer shall have the same authority to arrest as that peace officer and shall not be civilly liable for any reasonable conduct in rendering assistance to that officer." --- Advisory Legal Opinion - AGO 75-200
In most cases, this means you.
That's not all. If you are an American male, you are probably in the militia - US Federal, and state - even if you don't know it.
State militia, members.
41.050. The militia of the state shall include all able-bodied citizens and all other able-bodied residents, who, in the case of the unorganized militia and the Missouri reserve military force, shall be more than seventeen years of age and not more than sixty-four, and such other persons as may upon their own application be enrolled or commissioned therein, and who, in the case of the organized militia, shall be within the age limits and possess the physical and mental qualifications prescribed by law or regulations for the reserve components of the Armed Forces of the United States, except that this section shall not be construed to require militia service of any persons specifically exempted by the laws of the United States or the state of Missouri. The maximum age requirement may be waived by the adjutant general on a case-by-case basis.
Federal: Sec. 311. Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied
males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section
313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a
declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States
and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the
National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are -
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard
and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members
If this is deemed as stupid as it sounds, especially in a supposedly free society and by a President that campaigned on unprecedented transparency, then this may be the start of something wonderful.
If you think that living in a free society with government transparency means you, and any random person that asks the janitor, librarian, or county judge, gets access to top secret intelligence data, encryption methods, war plans, nuclear release codes, the tax data from your neighbors, reviews of weakness in the security plans at the local nuclear plant, etc., etc., etc., then you haven't correctly identified where the label stupid should be attached in this discussion.
It would have been better to have started squawking about the Obama administration before the last election, don't you think?
Mr Obama's justice department has proposed that if documents requested by the public are exempt from freedom of information laws, federal agencies should be able to "respond to the request as if the excluded records did not exist."
Transparency campaigners described the move as a "stunning" reversal of Mr Obama's pledge to run "the most transparent administration in history" during his campaign for the presidency.
In a joint statement, the American Civil Liberties Union, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, and OpenTheGovernment.org said the plan threatens to "destroy integrity in government".
"It is very problematic," said Patrice McDermott, the director of OpenTheGovernment.org. "There are options open to them other than this nuclear option of lying to requesters".
The plan is the latest in a string of controversial moves by Mr Obama, who earlier this year even insisted on collecting an award for his commitment to transparency behind closed doors at the White House. --- Barack Obama accused of breaking transparency pledge