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3D-Printed Gun May Be Unveiled Soon

colinneagle writes "A 3D-printed gun capable of firing multiple rounds may be unveiled soon. Cody Wilson, the 25-year-old founder and director of nonprofit organization Defense Distributed, recently told Mashable that the end product of Wiki Weapon, the initiative to create an operational 3D-printed gun, may soon be ready to unveil to the public. In a March interview with CNN, Wilson said he hoped to have a printable gun ready by the end of April, so his most recent comments suggest that he may fulfill that promise. While Wilson was sparse with details, he did tell Mashable that the prototype would be a handgun consisting of 12 parts made out of ABS+ thermoplastic, which is known for its durability and is commonly used in industrial settings. The firing pin would be the only steel component of the 3D-printed gun, which will be able to withstand a few shots before melting or breaking. Wilson reportedly anticipates making an official announcement soon."

625 comments

  1. Barrel and slide/bolt too? by maz2331 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the barrel and/or the slide is made of even the best plastic, I wouldn't trust it to take the 35ksi of a normal 9mm round even once. That application requires properly heat treated 4130 or 4140 steel (or 316 stainless).

    1. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by mhajicek · · Score: 2

      I'd like to see something that takes pipe from the hardware store as a barrel. 3/4" plumbing pipe perfectly fits a 12 gauge shell.

    2. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by balsy2001 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The more interesting part of this development is the possibility to make receivers on your printer. For example, the only federally controlled part on an AR-15 is the lower receiver. Every other part can be bought with no paper work (e.g., barrels, triggers, upper receivers, stocks, optics,...). There are already production models that use polymers. Factories that do this type of stuff require an FFL (federal firearms license) for manufacture of weapons. If you can do it in your house all the rules are out the door (legally you are also supposed to have the FFL, but...). You can make the receivers and buy the rest of the parts with cash for a fully untraceable gun. Another interesting point is that there are only very small difference between fully automatic versions and semi-automatic versions of the AR-15, if you can make the receiver at your house you could make a full auto version.

      --
      GENERATION 27: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
    3. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, they are trying to do a barrel and they know plastics are not the best way to accomplish this. I'm sure that is why they say it only shoots a few rounds. Last I heard they were using remote firing mechanisms to test out their designs. It will probably come with a strict warning that "this gun can only be safely fired 3 times before it becomes a plastic grenade".

    4. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by jamesh · · Score: 2, Funny

      If the barrel and/or the slide is made of even the best plastic, I wouldn't trust it to take the 35ksi of a normal 9mm round even once. That application requires properly heat treated 4130 or 4140 steel (or 316 stainless).

      I don't really see a problem. It just needs a label like "Warning: This item is not a weapon and is for novelty purposes only. Aim away from face".

      Part of me likes the idea of a handgun that only lasts 3 shots and on any of those 3 shots may explode and remove the face of the person holding it.

    5. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are plenty of lower pressure cartridges, you know, and even 9mm doesn't require proper steel -- 1018 or your favorite grade of aluminum will do fine if your goal is to last a few rounds rather than a few thousand.

      That said, you're absolutely right that there's a huge gap between crappy steel and the best plastics, and I don't know any round low enough pressure to make a plastic chamber feasible. So I'm being a bit pedantic, but that's what /. is for, yes?

    6. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative
      Like what was done in WWII?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sten

      This 3D printing hype is tiresome. Go ahead, get excited over blobs of plastic and twisting words to fit a bizarre notion that you can "3D print" the same items as mass manufacturing technology.

    7. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why stop at one process? There's nothing stopping you from 3D printing cast or injection molds and making the wearing parts out of something else. Ever hear of porcelain guns? Or skip 3D printing altogether and use 3D milling on actual metals.

    8. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by dbc · · Score: 1

      There are glass-filled nylon resins, for instance, that can be injection molded and have the same strength as aluminum. We're not 3D printing with that stuff, though.

    9. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's like the lasguns in Dune. If used to shoot someone wearing an active melee shield, it could do anything from letting the pulse through, up to exploding in a blast that would dwarf an atomic bomb. You don't want to use a gun in battle unless you absolutely have to and are willing to take the gamble.

    10. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ever hear of porcelain guns?

      yeah we all saw die hard 2, and a glock 7 is a porcelain gun from germany that costs more than an airport police cheif makes in a month.

    11. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Tagged_84 · · Score: 2

      I'd prefer the label wasn't there, Darwinism at work.

    12. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (legally you are also supposed to have the FFL, but...)

      you don't need an FFL to manufacture firearms for personal use, as long as they're not NFA regulated firearms (short barrel rifles/shotguns, machine guns, etc)

    13. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      clarification: i was speaking with regards to not having to get any permissions. you can manufacture NFA items without an FFL too (aside from machine guns), but you have jump through ATF hoops first to get approval and a tax stamp.

    14. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by icebike · · Score: 1

      If the barrel and/or the slide is made of even the best plastic, I wouldn't trust it to take the 35ksi of a normal 9mm round even once. That application requires properly heat treated 4130 or 4140 steel (or 316 stainless).

      Yeah, that's what people have been saying since the whole idea of printing guns came up.
      It's about to come to fruition in spite of your protestations. Just stop blabbering about how many copper units it has to withstand to be equivalent to a nine mil. The favorite weapon of an mob hit men is a 22 caliber.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    15. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      People have been making receivers on CNC machines for years. It's not a particularly difficult part to manufacture, compared to something like a barrel.

    16. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      maybe it's not taking all of it. Big round with slow-burning powder, something like 9x39, very early gas port and a loose relief regulator. I wouldn't be startled if the end result was a subsonic weapon with an effective range of ~100m.

    17. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Incorrect. You need no permissions to manufacture a firearm for personal use, as long as it is not a short barrel rifle or shotgun, machine gun, or a weapon that falls into the AOW category. I can make as many AR-15's for myself as I want, as long as I don't give them away, or sell them, the government can't touch me, or do anything about it (legally, at least).

      There is, in fact, a large industry in what's called 80% receivers, where you buy a partially milled receiver, and finish boring it out yourself with a drill press and a jig. Completely legal, with no paperwork.

    18. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      There's actually a fairly good bit of difference between the commercially available AR-15's and fully automatic versions. Different Bolt Carrier design, different trigger group, additional boring out of the receiver, and a part that does not exist at all in the semi-automatic AR-15. Conversion is nowhere near as easy as your congress critter or the media would have you believe. Sure, it can be done, but it's a LOT of work.

    19. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The people working on 3d printing guns are mostly interested in the idea because it'd be very difficult to regulate - they believe that access to firearms is a fundamental constitutional right, even a human right, that no government should be permitted to take from the people. The manufacture of guns by conventional means requires large factories and an organised distribution chain that make it fairly easy for any government to regulate, keeping the guns in the hands of only the police, army, and the criminals well-connected enough to access a shadowy underworld of illegal imports and stolen guns. Guns made with 3d printing would be accessible to anyone able to buy some perfectly legal hardware and download a model file.

    20. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would have believed that guns are hard to make until I heard about Filipino gun makers.

    21. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      3D printers *don't* require large factories and organized distribution chains? All the "3D printers" I've seen require metal parts and feedstocks that come from the despised large factories. Don't kid yourself, you're not some rugged frontiersman individualist bravely downloading files and courageously clicking "OK" on your computer (another devil from the large factories! o noes!)...

      You're a tool.

    22. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by SharpFang · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They require only generic parts that are obtainable off-the-shelf and needed in hundreds of applications - impossible to regulate (and also available as parts of generic appliances one can dismantle).

      It's not about "do it without use of any factory products", it's about "do it with products the government is unable to restrict."

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    23. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately depending on a technicality of law that is easily overturned (the fact that only the lower is regulated) will not get you far. Restricting sales of most gun parts (and even ammo!) wouldn't be hard.

      Only assuring every part of the gun can be made personally or from parts too generic to be easily banned (as they are too common in day-to-day non-weapon applications) will assure the government won't stop your production ability with a simple act like restricting sale of receivers.

      Restricting sale of 3/4" plumbing pipe will be much harder than restricting sale of rifled barrels.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    24. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      And what's the situation with AK-47?

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    25. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by SharpFang · · Score: 2

      Depends on the size of the plastic. I assure you a 9mm round embedded in a 1mx1mx1m of ABS with only canals for the bullet and firing pin will not make the entire block of plastic explode.

      I imagine the design could be quite viable as a revolver where the whole drum with rounds and barrels built in is replaceable and each round has its own single-use barrel. Reloading involves replacing the whole drum.

      What I find would be quite difficult though is getting your own rounds made from scratch / from generic parts with reasonable efficiency.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    26. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not that hard. A $10K machine shop (all perfectly legal hardware) staffed by competent folks can churn out a few rifles per day, with exponential returns on more investment. Sure, engineers and craftsmen have better things to do at the moment, but if The Revolution came around, it'd be pretty easy to tool up. This is fortunate, because a militia armed with three-shot rifles which might explode at any moment wouldn't get very far.

    27. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Adam+Jorgensen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why would I want to own a gun?

      Guns are primarily weapons of offence.

      They are not primarily defensive devices.

      If I wanted to go out and kill someone tomorrow, sure, I can see a need to print my own gun.

      For self defence though?

      No thanks...

    28. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Stuarticus · · Score: 0

      Guns made with 3d printing would be accessible to anyone able to buy some perfectly legal hardware and download a model file.

      That's great, soon everyone will have be armed. Imagine how safe everyone will be.

      --
      If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
    29. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by citizenr · · Score: 2

      I think the difference between semi and full auto is placement of one hole.

      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
    30. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Kreigaffe · · Score: 1

      The problem is that a 3-D printed gun is completely unremarkable.

      It's not the easiest way to make a gun. It's not the best way to make a gun. It's not the simplest way to make a gun. It's not the cheapest way to make a gun.

      The gun won't be the strongest, most accurate, safest.. nothing.

      Guns ARE accessible to anyone. Hell, Kirk made one by himself on an alien planet!.. but more realistically, this is ancient-fucking-tech here. I could cobble a gun together from shit in my basement in a day or two, if I needed to. Making it go BANG! would take a little longer, but, gosh. Here's the thing about that part.... it's pretty damned easy to make yourself some blackpowder. Hard part is just measuring things well, honestly.. well, that, and exactly how primitive you have to get. The sulfur may be hard to find.... but potassium nitrate? Lotta ways to make that.. and charcoal, well, that's ubiquitous.

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    31. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      22 long rifle is 25 000+ CUP. A plastic chamber can't handle that either. It will be a pathetic performance. One, maybe two shots and the `gun' will be so deformed it will cease to function.

    32. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      they believe that access to firearms is a fundamental constitutional right, even a human right, that no government should be permitted to take from the people.

      No, they want to 'be the cool kid with the gun'. The rest is just the excuse.
      You never see the gun-nuts up in arms when the government wants to create a police state. More often you see them cheering the government on.
      They also don't believe in freedom, like the freedom to marry whoever you want regardless of gender.

    33. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by DrXym · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You could probably make a gun out of a metal pipe, masking tape, a thumb tack and a rubber band. Basically something to strike the percussion cap and a tube to propel the bullet in a forward direction. You'd stand a good chance of blowing your hand off or shards perforating your head but it's still viable. I'm looking forward to the stories of exactly that happening from people attempting to print their own guns with 3D printers.

    34. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Kreigaffe · · Score: 1

      That still won't work for a barrel. This plastic.. mess.. I wouldn't trust it as a barrel. The inner surface of the bore WILL melt and deform, on the first shot. Stuff gets hot!

      There's many, many different kinds of "strength" in a material. Plastic isn't a good choice for a high-temperature/pressure/friction environment.. and forget about rifling. Aluminum would have some pretty awful spalling I'd imagine, porcelain won't take the pressure.

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    35. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by DrXym · · Score: 4, Funny

      A militia armed with AR16s wouldn't get very far either. Remember those videos from Desert Storm showing Apache helicopters mowing down Iraqi soliders from 3 miles away? That's your militia, excepting that their enlarged girth would make them explode in a more amusing fashion.

    36. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't have to have one to be safer. The possibility that you and/or your neighbor might have one, is its own benefit.

      That and, yes, firearms are actually used by citizens for defense every day.

    37. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Right. The same army that gets bogged down for a decade doing reconstruction after decimating another state about which we care not at all is definitely going to be willing to massacre its own population.

      I've said it before and i'll say it again. The point of an armed populace isn't to fight an army at full strength. It's to be able to escalate domestic oppression to levels which make the government think twice, rather than sitting around and letting the secret police disappear people one at a time.

      And it doesn't take that much. The world economy is extremely sensitive. What do you think will happen to a nation's sovereign debt rating once it starts openly bombing its own citizens and industrial plants?

    38. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, wake me up when I can get me a printer that prints Apache helicopters.

    39. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lots of things are difficult to regulate. Killing people is difficult to regulate. Doesn't make it any less illegal. There's a leap of logic in there that makes no sense.

    40. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      There is always the option of Gyrojet.

      In this solution the stress on the gun is relatively minor and it really could fire multiple bullets. The bullets are actually tiny rockets - they contain propellant they burn as they fly.

      The disadvantages are low power at point blank and short range, and obviously increased complexity and price of the rounds - which could be 3D printed just the same but not easy to make.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    41. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by gtall · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      They are also used by kids younger than 10 years old to accidentally kill their playmates or parents or siblings. Yes, you can lock them up and keep them unloaded which means you are already dead from an intruder by the time you discover them.

      One time in Indiana in about 1974-6 in a little town called Otterbein just outside of West Lafayette (home to Purdue University), a man asked his 4-5 year old daughter to get daddy's shotgun from the bed room so he could clean it. She did, but she tripped just before she could hand it to him and blew his head off. Clean off. I didn't feel bad for the moron with no head, but that little girl was probably scarred for life.

    42. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hear hear !

    43. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      "If the barrel and/or the slide is made of even the best plastic, I wouldn't trust it to take the 35ksi of a normal 9mm round even once. That application requires properly heat treated 4130 or 4140 steel (or 316 stainless)."

      1. A 'normal' 9mm Parabellum was developed for a specific gun, I guess if you make a plastic one, you'd also create the ammo it needs. A friend of mine made a nylon gun 40 years ago with a 1 inch barrel diameter for .22 long, I saw him shoot it several dozen shots without any hiccup.

      2. Even the treated steel barrel is guaranteed only for 10 or 20.000 shots.

      3. Hired hitmen would fire them only once or twice before destroying the (steel) gun, this just makes it cheaper to acquire and easier to destroy.

    44. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by BasilBrush · · Score: 3

      Have you thought of just not electing militaristic presidents in the first place?

    45. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by gsslay · · Score: 1

      " keeping the guns in the hands of only the police, army, and the criminals well-connected enough to access a shadowy underworld of illegal imports and stolen guns."

      Why would anyone else need or want one? Apart from the psychos and criminals not well-connected enough? This is not a "gun-hobby" item. Not even the most fanatic of gun owners has any use for a gun that lasts just a couple of firings. This is either the ultimate disposable crime tool, or a poor and unreliable gun for people that regulations have already decided (usually for good reason) are not to be trusted with a gun.

      "and download a model file."

      Possession of which can just as easily be made illegal without the proper permit. It is possible to make owning a collection of computer bits arranged in a particular way illegal. We have laws like this already.

    46. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hobbyists actually do conventional gun manufacture on a relatively regular basis; manual machining is good enough and the equipment is not all that expensive; a quick search suggests that equipment sufficient to manufacture one (a bit slowly, it requires more care to be precise as the machines get more manual) is on the same or only one higher order of magnitude as the gun. A lathe and a mill and you're in pretty good shape to get started; if you need particularly complicated heat treatment on the material you want to use then you might go for a better-controlled oven - but those are fairly easy to build, too.

    47. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by amiga3D · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It doesn't matter who you elect, it is not like they are running things anyway. The current President is in fact the holder of the Nobel Peace Prize awarded to him because he was not George W. Bush. In fact, although I am generally conservative politically the one thing I said when President Obama was elected was that at least the war on our personal freedoms would end now. Boy was I wrong. The man isn't even a good liberal. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

    48. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      I want the 3D printed Abrams battle tank.

    49. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by heypete · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure that's exactly what the AC you're replying to said: you can manufacture Title I firearms (that is, non-NFA-regulated items like the AR-15) for personal use with no paperwork.

      If you wish to manufacture Title II firearms (NFA-regulated items) like SBRs, SBSs, suppressors, AOWs, etc. that's fine, but you need the relevant ATF forms and tax stamp though no manufacturer's license is required. Manufacturing machine guns, however, requires that one possess the appropriate manufacturer's license.

    50. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by amiga3D · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, accidents happen. How about that. I don't know if you are aware but people die every single day from some of the most bizarre accidents imaginable. Owning guns isn't so much about being safe as being free. I know you don't get it and that's okay. I fully support your right to be unarmed.

    51. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Major+Blud · · Score: 4, Insightful
      --
      If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
    52. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You've obviously never had your home broken into. You need to understand that both side manipulate and distort stats to basically feed you lies. In most cases where a home owner defends his home with a gun, he doesn't shoot anyone. A relative of mine had someone break into his home in the middle of the night. He stepped into the hallway with a 12gauge shot gun, saw the intruder in the living room and fired one round into the floor. The intruder ran. The action with the gun was never recorded by police.

      As the saying goes, guns make all men equal. a 60yr old man with a limp and a pistol is just as likely to win a fight as an equally armed 20yr old intruder.

    53. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      I think the idea is to have a cheap, disposable weapon. The Saturday Night Special from Hell.

    54. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      They will be exactly as safe as they choose to be. Or are you one of those nutjobs that believe that a chunk of metal gains magical powers over the one possessing it and causes said possessor to do random acts of idiocy?

    55. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      I guess you haven't actually met a "gun nut" in real life then, have you. I know quite a few gun owners and very few of them are hoping for more government interference or what you would call a police state. One or two of them lean that way but they lean left on many issues and I can't figure out how they reconcile gun ownership in the first place.

    56. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Charliemopps · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nice bullshit story. My gunsafe unlocks with a 4 digit code. I can release the gun in under a second and it drops open to a 45 degree angle grip out so you're ready to fire. It's loaded and ready to go.

      Guns require a commitment by the owner. My kid doesn't touch guns. Period. If he sees one, anywhere, he tells an adult immediately. If you don't take your kids to swimming lessons and they fall in a lake (a much more likely scenario than them finding a gun) they are likely going to die. Gun safety should be a part of any kids upbringing just like swimming. And just like swimming, just because you don't own beach front property doesn't mean you should skip the training. If your kid hasn't had proper gun safety training, YOU are putting your child in danger, not the gun owners of the world.

    57. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It just adds range and power to the acts of idiocy they already perform.

    58. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Stuarticus · · Score: 1

      No, but there's a pretty strong correlation between gun ownership and idiocy.

      --
      If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
    59. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      If you are being harassed then you should call the police. If by harassed you mean that the very idea that your neighbor might have a gun at home, then grow up and shut up. You act as if you have a fundamental right to spout nonsense that I find highly annoying. Don't you realize that your right to spout nonsense does not supersede my right to remain unannoyed?

      Most gun owners like guns because they use them to hunt or find practicing their shooting skills to be highly enjoyable. Have you ever considered the amount of muscle control and timing and hand/eye coordination it takes to shoot extremely accurately? Of course not because them guns is evil shit.

      Oh yeah, let's ban them for the sake of the children. Lets ban games and the internet for the same reason.

      I take responsibility for my guns every day. What I am not responsible for is what some asshole chooses to do with his, hers or the ones they stole. Just like you are not responsible for every crime that is committed with a computer just because you own or use one.

      Did you understand that? People are responsible for their own actions. All computer owners are not collectively responsible for the actions of a misguided few. All gun owners are not responsible for the actions of a misguided few. All car owners are not responsible for the actions of a misguided few. All alcohol consumers are not responsible for the actions of a misguided few.

      Alcohol alone is responsible for more deaths than guns so why aren't you demanding that every drinker take responsibility, those assholes.

    60. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by IRWolfie- · · Score: 1

      If robbers know people have guns, they will bring guns. They'll have less compunction about shooting you. Guns don't protect people: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2013/mar/25/guns-protection-national-rifle-association

    61. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by realityimpaired · · Score: 3, Informative

      By the standards of pretty much every other country in the G20 (including Russia), Obama is a conservative. He only appears a liberal when compared against your own right-wing.

    62. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So your counterargument to gun ownership is "stupid people do stupid things?"

    63. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      It's not the easiest way to make a gun. It's not the best way to make a gun. It's not the simplest way to make a gun. It's not the cheapest way to make a gun.

      The gun won't be the strongest, most accurate, safest.. nothing.

      All perfectly valid points...

      The problem is that a 3-D printed gun is completely unremarkable.

      And there you have it. You should have ended with that sentence, not begun with it. It only needs to fire once to serve its purpose.

    64. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Broken+scope · · Score: 1

      Are you fucking kidding me? Half the gun nuts I know are fast approaching the fringe right and love the police state so long as the police state applies to everyone else. Most of them are moderates but they are single issue voters when it comes to firearms, the rest either libertarians or left leaning.

      --
      You mad
    65. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A militia armed with AR16s wouldn't get very far either. Remember those videos from Desert Storm showing Apache helicopters mowing down Iraqi soliders from 3 miles away? That's your militia, excepting that their enlarged girth would make them explode in a more amusing fashion.

      First order of strategic thinking is: don't accept the battle in unfavorable conditions. Don't keep your mind inside the box. Fighting attack helicopters from the ground, using anti-infantry weaponry, while they are flying is not something you (should) want to do. Perhaps Iraqi conscript had their orders to stand their ground no matter what. Militia doesn't have to take no such bullsh!7.

      Correct way to do it is:

      • - find their ground bases, and attack them on airfields and in hangars, e.g. with mortar fire. Be content with taking out just one at a time, or just damaging some.
      • - Attack their supply chains (fuel, ammo, lubricants, spares, food, water, electricity), forcing them grounded.
      • - Target their pilots anyhow, anywhere you can find them, they are expensive (special abilities and training) and slow to replenish. Mechanics are second in line, as good ones are essential for keeping choppers humming. If we are talking about civil war, try to persuade pilots and mechanics to renegade to your side, with their machines.
      • - Waste their resources trolling them around map, intermittently feigning concentration in different distant areas.
      • etc.
    66. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Broken+scope · · Score: 1

      Not quite, I have a full auto(M-16) carrier in my rifle, even though my trigger group, safety, and receiver are not capable of supporting automatic fire.

      --
      You mad
    67. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Lord+Kano · · Score: 2

      And they are used by children, most recently one that was 15, to protect their families from home invaders.

      I'll take my chances this way. I prefer being armed to being a victim.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    68. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Broken+scope · · Score: 1

      And they totally exist.

      --
      You mad
    69. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      I guess that explains why Joe Biden is always talking about his shotgun.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    70. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Shadow99_1 · · Score: 1

      Even if the story is true... It takes 3 failures of both gun safety and intelligence to get there:
      1. Manage to be stupid enough to not only keep your shotgun loaded, but with a round chambered.
      2. Manage not to have a safety on.
      3. Ask someone barely big enough to carry the item to you.

      Ok, maybe you do keep your gun loaded, I personally wouldn't unless I was in a 'warzone' or had immediate cause to have a loaded gun handy. Heck with things like clips of ammo and speed loaders the need to keep a weapon loaded is very very low. Even classic break-open (ie breech loading) shotguns aren't usually kept loaded as it takes only a second or two to slap in a cartridge and be ready to fire.

      However if you fail all three steps then you have truly proved yourself an idiot and certainly should never have owned a firearm.

      --
      we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
    71. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was dumb. The intruder could have spun quickly, drawn his own gun, and shot him in the head. The homeowner should have gone for the kill.

    72. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This hyperbolic nonsensical dogshit got marked insightful?

    73. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Here's the hard truth: someone's irresponsibility is not my fucking problem.

    74. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      No, they want to 'be the cool kid with the gun'. The rest is just the excuse.

      If that were the case, they'd just go buy them. Before December, one could get an AR-15 lower receiver for under $100. That price is likely to return to being the norm in a few months. That's far less than the cost of even the cheapest 3D printer. This is obviously about principle, even if it's one that you don't agree with.

      They also don't believe in freedom, like the freedom to marry whoever you want regardless of gender.

      I prefer the freedom of not being forced to call your boyfriend your husband.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    75. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Shadow99_1 · · Score: 1

      So that explains all those old school CEOs who go to exotic places to shoot things being so damn stupid...

      --
      we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
    76. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      All the government has to do is label the people it wants to disappear as "terrorists" or "traitors", and then the gun-toting patriots will do nothing. Where was the armed populace when the U.S. government decided to unconstitutionally intern American citizens of Japanese decent in WWII ? Or more to the point, what would have happened if the Japanese Americans had decided to make use of their 2nd amendment rights ? They would have been slaughtered, that is what would have happened.

    77. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know a number of private citizens with AR-50s and/or Barrett M82s. And with NVGs. And a .50 round can take out a helicopter.

      I also happen to know a whole bunch of Apache pilots, none of whom would fire on US Citizens.

      BTW, I don't know anyone who owns an AR16. In fact, I'd wager that no one anywhere owns an AR16.

    78. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by hodet · · Score: 1

      Charliemopps, I am not questioning you or judging you in any way, I am genuinely trying to understand why someone needs a gun ready and loaded at all times. I have no doubt that you are responsible gun owner and a good fella, I just can't get into a headspace where I would see myself needing to have a weapon ready and loaded. What is the the imminent threat where you are from? I also own a gun, a 12gauge semi automatic securely locked with no ammo. I use it only for hunting small game and would never in my life think of loading it in the house. Anyway I seek to understand only because from my side of the fence it doesn't make any sense. This would probably be a good conversation between two guys having a beer.

    79. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well then, why don't you just not buy one, and leave me to make my own decision about what guns are "for." I have shot many of them in shooting ranges, and contrary to your absurd notions, never once at a person.

    80. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by techsimian · · Score: 1

      I was thinking the same thing...it's like a zip-gun...only crappier

      Since when has ABS been known for it's durability? Raise your hand if you think your plastic bumper cover is durable? You know the one that costs $600 and can't survive an impact with a squirrel.

    81. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      That is what I was thinking.

      A .22 rimfire pepperbox should be doable with ABS. To reload you take off the entire end and place a new one on it.

      If you are willing to go to black powder you can make your own rounds easily. Since you are just packing powder and ball into the pepperbox barrels. Making percussion caps is harder, but matchlock should be easier. Besides percussion caps will not be that hard to make.

    82. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. It's a big leap from 'I disagree with gun ownership' to 'I hope gun owners are killed or seriously injured.'

    83. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I was about to say whenever people bring up the argument that militia with small arms will never be able to take on the US government with their Apaches and ICBMs and M1 Tanks, I just think of how that is exactly what the Taliban has been doing since 2001, and I don't think they have a single tank. Just rusty Kalashnikov, homemade explosives and plenty of balls.

    84. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by rossdee · · Score: 2

      Guns are primarily weapons of offence.
      They are not primarily defensive devices."

      What then, is a good defense against someone who has a gun?

      A bullet proof vest may stop a body shot from being fatal, but it won't stop him shooting you in the haed, or hitting a leg or arm that may prove fatal or at least maim you.)

    85. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I mostly agree with you, but your last sentence just seems crazy. A responsible gun owner probably shouldn't leave his weapon laying around where any kid can just pick it up. So sure, it's a good idea to teach your kids how to be safe with guns, but I'd say the idiot who leaves his weapon on the kitchen table is probably the one endangering everyone around him.

    86. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      Agreed, it's a dumbass idea. 3D print a gun and what have you got? A junky, inaccurate gun that will (if you're lucky) last long enough to misfire, shoot something you're not pointing at or blow up in your hand. Guns are made out of steel for very good reasons.

    87. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, you can lock them up and keep them unloaded which means you are already dead from an intruder by the time you discover them.

      Locked up doesn't mean you can't get to one quickly.

      I keep a loaded SIG P239 9mm in a SpeedVault (http://www.gunvault.com/gun-safes/speedvault.html) attached to my night stand. Kids are not going to get to it, and it only takes about ten seconds to arm myself from the time my home security system wakes me up. The purpose of arming myself with the 9mm is so I can get to my more powerful firearms, which are locked up in a steel gun safe. I always follow safety protocols when handling firearms, practice at the range twice a month, and take two or three classes each year.

    88. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "He stepped into the hallway with a 12gauge shot gun"

      And I am 100% in favor of people who pass a background check being allowed to purchase a 12 gauge shotgun that can hold 2-4 rounds of ammunition for use in their home for such a situation.

      I am 100% against them owning a an AR15 which can fire 30 substantially more lethal rounds in a very short time. Gun advocates are quick to point out that hardly anyone is every killed or robbed by an AR15, so it stands to reason you don't need one for home defense.

      All you need to equal that potential (and EXTREMELY UNLIKELY) armed intruder while you are home is a run of the mill 12 gauge.

      You can also do what I've done if you are worried about break ins--I live in a hurricane zone so I have hurricane windows. A typical 9mm round will not penetrate my windows or the glass in my French doors. Nor will a 2x4 fired at 120 mph. My doors are all heavy metal framed or fiberglass. They are extremely resistant to break-in by force.

      Two years ago we had an attempted break-in during the day while we were not home. The perpetrators were not able to gain entry. Were someone to try to break in while I was home. I would simply call the police who would arrive well within the time it would take for someone to gain access to my house. Believe me I would hear them trying to smash in. And yes I know about lock bumping. Good luck with that at my place. All of my doors can be independently bolted from the inside, so bumping the lock won't get you in.

      So tell me again why I need YOU to have access to drastically more powerful guns?

    89. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by tommituura · · Score: 2

      When you need the stuff bad enough, pretty much anything goes. http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2013/02/diy-weapons-of-the-syrian-rebels/100461/

    90. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guns are primarily weapons of offence.

      They are not primarily defensive devices.

      Really? Than why do the police use guns?

    91. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm recent high profile home invasions in texas all involved home owners with firearms it didn't stop them because perpetrators took a hostage or took them out before they even woke up.

    92. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      If you can do it in your house all the rules are out the door (legally you are also supposed to have the FFL, but...).

      Incorrect.You do not need an FFL to manufacture your own firearm for personal use.

    93. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Similar to AR15's, AK's require different trigger parts and receivers made for semi-auto AK's have their pins drilled in different locations to make them incompatible with full-auto parts. The only guns that were ever at all easy to convert to full-auto were the semi-auto conversions of open-bolt machine guns like the MAC-10 or UZI, which are no longer made since the machine gun ban.

    94. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      They are or should be looking to use something like a .22lr instead of a 9mm.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    95. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. Nobody will feel cool with a plastic gun.
      2. I believe in the right to own a gun, but don't choose to exercise that right. How am I just trying to "be the cool kid wth the gun"?
      2. I am anti gun control and am not republican, and certainly not a stereotyped one.

      Nice attempt at framing though. Fox news would be proud.

    96. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you are not going to teach gun safety to your child? Re-read the rest of your statement. Guns have their place in society, Some like healthy food some like to hunt their food, some like gm food for you. Teach your child, too be safe around all weapons.

    97. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, nutjobs who believe a chunk of metal is all about freedom and oppression and see government plots everywhere? Nuts like that?

    98. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're looking forward to that happening to people? Terrorist.

    99. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by cold+fjord · · Score: 1
      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    100. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And you clearly don't live in an area with dangerous animals. Mountain lions and bears are kinda assholish if you catch them in a bad mood.

      And contrary to what some people want you to believe, a .45 round will convince a bear to go elsewhere. There are plenty of other things to eat that can't fight back.

    101. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      I try it is just that too many people vote for candidates who want to bomb someone off the face of the planet.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    102. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      One of the best sources of steel for barrels is _used_ truck axles, since it's stress-relieved.

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    103. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 1

      True. In the Netherlands, even catapults are forbidden. That law was passed not because of the child toys, but because of the professional ones (with arm-piece and visor) that are more effective than your average gun when loaded with a heavy nut. Why would a gun be harder to regulate?

      --
      Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
    104. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by emho24 · · Score: 1

      This 3D printing hype is tiresome.

      I somewhat agree, but it is exciting to think that this is just the ground floor of something awesome. I tend to look at this as a technology in its infancy, using plastics and non-durable materials.

      Give it time, in a matter of years technology will allow the plastics to be replaced with hard metals, etc.

      --
      You must gather your party before venturing forth.
    105. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Entropius · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Obama is neither a very good liberal nor a very good conservative.

    106. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      Yes, and about as well trained as these guys: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couch_potato

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    107. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A militia armed with AR16s wouldn't get very far either. Remember those videos from Desert Storm showing Apache helicopters mowing down Iraqi soliders from 3 miles away? That's your militia, excepting that their enlarged girth would make them explode in a more amusing fashion.

      How do you know the guy in the Apache isn't a member of the militia as well?

    108. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by tmosley · · Score: 2

      They are ALL militaristic, no mater what they say.

      Nixon was voted in on the promise of ending the war in Vietnam. Whoops.

    109. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure "need" is the correct word here. Nobody "needs" a television. Yet I would think you might object if someone came along and decided no one was allowed to have one. I don't have a gun, but I can understand that some people might *want* to have one, either for fun or because it makes them feel safer. There's doesn't have to be an imminent threat for that. And there is no reason why they shouldn't have one as long as they aren't misusing it, same as with cars, industrial solvents, poisons, knives, fertilizers, etc.

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    110. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Entropius · · Score: 1

      I've lived in a city with some of the most permissive gun laws in the US (Tucson AZ, population around 800k) and a city with some of the most restrictive (Washington DC, population 600k-ish). Famous Tucson shooting notwithstanding, it's a far far safer place -- despite having a much lower average income. This isn't *because* of its gun laws, of course -- but they don't cause huge problems. If you went there the only thing you'd probably notice would be the "No guns" signs in front of restaurants and bars. (The law gives private property owners the right to ban armed guests from their property, and many choose to.)

    111. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice try but abstinence just doesn't work. Your kid is the one that gets extra curious when he sees a gun and, being mischevious like kids are, starts playing with it. If you're unlucky, before he gets bored and summons an adult, he'll seriously injure himself or possibly another child because you haven't taught him anything about guns. Moron.

    112. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they believe that access to firearms is a fundamental constitutional right, even a human right, that no government should be permitted to take from the people.

      No, they want to 'be the cool kid with the gun'. The rest is just the excuse.
      You never see the gun-nuts up in arms when the government wants to create a police state. More often you see them cheering the government on.
      They also don't believe in freedom, like the freedom to marry whoever you want regardless of gender.

      NOT universally true. You're talking about "conservatives" (I use that word loosely, as Barry Goldwater was the real conservative, and he wouldn't stand for this shit,) aka the republican party.

      Modern day libertarians (little L, not the party,) are closer aligned to the pre-Nixon conservatives, and are all about restricting the government and stopping it from putting its nose in your business.

      Unfortunately we're stuck right now between the lesser of 2 evils because people have the mentality of "Oh I don't like the republican, but I have to vote against the democrat, and 3rd part is wasting my vote" (you can switch democrat and republican freely, not like there's a difference anymore.)

    113. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Entropius · · Score: 1

      You're not forced to call my boyfriend any particular thing. I'm not forced to call the woman whose vagina you crawled out of your mother, either. But in English that's what the word "mother" means, just like the word "husband" means "man in an institutionally-formalized long-term romantic relationship of a particular character." Two men go to a church and a priest says some funny words and they come out wearing rings; you're welcome to call them whatever you like, but most folks will call them husbands.

    114. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by RevDisk · · Score: 1

      Buddy of a buddy of mine's wife could answer that. Someone knocked on the door. She didn't answer as she wasn't expecting anyone, and was in the middle of something. So, likely thinking no one was home, kicked in the door. Daylight, nice neighborhood. They ran into the house, four total.

      She thankfully got to the safe which was thankfully designed to be quickly opened, and grabbed a revolver. Tagged two of them before running out of ammo. She then scrambled BACK to the safe. Thankfully, there were speed loaders for the revolver sitting there. She fired twice more before the two mobile individuals left the house, one leaking. Lesson learned, she is practicing with a new semiauto pistol.

      Cops did find them. That was the most disturbing part. Car had a baseball bat, rope, duct tape and a machete in it. If they caught her unarmed (an empty weapon is basically just a small club)... If she was lucky, and they could have killed her. If she was unlucky... Look up the Wichita Horror.

      My buddy is a judge, who worked with the guy. Apparently a bunch of prosecutors and judges have been targeted semi-recently. At the time he told me, they weren't sure if it was the husband's connection to the legal system or random. Last they guessed, it was just random.

    115. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Entropius · · Score: 1

      It is a lot harder to actually find that collection of computer bits or enforce the law against it. We have child porn, a thing that an overwhelming majority of the population finds abhorrent, more evil than Hitler himself. It's a collection of bits that can't be created (usually) without the involvement of an unwilling third party. And yet people have it. Gun plans, something that there's far more sympathy (or, at least, apathy) toward? Good luck.

      The point is that making something a collection of bits makes it far more difficult to ban.

    116. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Uhh, think you mean AR15's there, buddy. Which goes to show how little you know about anything military related. Sure, you can't stand up to an Apache helicopter, but exactly how long do you think they will be able to keep them running when their supply lines are severed into a thousand pieces by dudes with homemade bombs and saboteurs? Stick a few dozen overloaded shells in a row in those gatling guns, and it will blow up, downing the helicopter, assuming they can get the parts to keep it flying, or the fuel to keep it in the air. Then there are the overwhelming numbers. 300K standing army vs an open rebellion of five out of a hundred citizens (ie 15 million), most of whom are totally indistinguishable from allies. And of course, the brutality of the inevitable response will only increase those numbers.

      No, you don't need a high tech army to defeat the US. They defeat themselves in any and all occupation missions.

    117. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Entropius · · Score: 1

      Non-gun-owning American asks:

      Why the hell are our gun laws so complicated? Is there any policy purpose, even a bad one, served by making the law so complicated that it makes me want to go write Xorg.conf modelines to rest my brains?

    118. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize the casing and bullet will fly apart in a violent, low velocity explosion? At least the only way I can envision your proposed building materials making a cartridge go boom.

    119. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      Not good enough. If he had carried out his campaign promises? Absolutely. But they gave it to him untested. And then he barely tried at all to get things done and actively reversed his most popular liberal positions.

      Obama was a closet conservative and we all got fooled.

    120. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by tmosley · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry you don't see or understand reality.

      There are hundreds of millions of weapons in the US. all the crime is committed with a tiny, TINY fraction of those. Like 0.0005% of them. The remainder are used primarily as a deterrent, which is why the US has a much lower general crime rate than the disarmed UK.

    121. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by tmosley · · Score: 1

      By that logic, we should ban pools first, because many more children kill themselves with those than with guns.

    122. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "If you can do it in your house all the rules are out the door (legally you are also supposed to have the FFL, but...)"

      While true it's true existing laws would be rendered obsolete, it doesn't exactly render the US government powerless to regulate firearms. If the government is (as many conservatives appear to believe) hell bent on takin' their guns, they'd simply switch their regulatory attention to ammunition. Have fun manufacturing (let alone firing) 3-D printed bullets.

    123. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Endo13 · · Score: 1

      Your little anecdote sounds like it's just an example of someone who is basically criminally negligent with regards to gun safety. For starters, you should never have a round chambered in a stored gun. You shouldn't even be storing a gun loaded, unless it's specifically for self-defense purposes. Second, you shouldn't be having a 5-year-old handling a gun like a shotgun at all, and certainly not if that gun is loaded. Third, it's never too early to start training kids about gun safety, especially if you have firearms around the house. But you don't start with true firearms at that age, you start with airguns.

      Now that being said, it's always possible that the stupid gun owner thought he emptied the gun before he stored it, but accidentally left a round in the chamber. Fatal accidents happen every day, and they don't require firearms.
      http://hollywoodlife.com/2012/04/03/boy-drowns-washing-machine/
      http://www.nytimes.com/1994/12/16/nyregion/girl-dies-from-neck-injury-after-fall-down-stairs-at-school.html

      --
      There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
    124. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by tmosley · · Score: 1

      The home invasion rate in the UK is much MUCH higher in the UK than it is in the US. You like the prospect of burglars coming into your house while your wife is home alone?

      Yes, a gun in the home is important. It levels the playing field. The young and strong can't abuse the elderly here, because said elderly person might just have a gun. Guys can't just grab a woman walking alone on the street and rape her, because she probably has a gun.

      But of course, such crimes are also much more common in disarmed areas in the US.

      But gun grabbers will never see or understand reality. All they want is good feelings now, even if it brings worse feelings later. That is the only logic I can see in their actions.

    125. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      There is a much stronger correlation between automobile ownership and idiocy. There are fewer automobiles than guns in the USA, and automobiles kill more people than guns even when you count the ~65% of gun fatalities that are intentional voluntary suicides.

    126. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by bsane · · Score: 3

      But everyone keeps telling me he is a SOCIALIST!

      (and the great-grandparent is right on imo- armed populace isn't for a full on war, they'd lose- its so that the populace can escalate any oppression to levels that make it a non-option for the government)

    127. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by tmosley · · Score: 1

      lol, UK propaganda. Don't worry, the cameras will keep you safe, even though they definitely don't. What are you going to trust, reality or your feelings? Guns FEEL dangerous, so keep them away, and get beaten my roving mobs of hooligans once a week. Hooligans that are never prosecuted, despite all the cameras, because the cameras aren't for them, they are for keeping your ass in line.

    128. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by bsane · · Score: 1

      And an edit to the armed populace. Even in Washington's day an armed populace wasn't a real threat to the regular US army- there is no way they could have 'won' a war. What they could do- and the framers knew they could do- is make an controlling the country via military force costly and difficult. Which is a deterrent against such actions.

    129. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Endo13 · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile, the homeowner has already chambered another round and is already aiming at the intruder. The homeowner was much more likely to get off a second shot than the intruder was to get one off at all, and the homeowner's shot would have been much more accurately aimed.

      Also, the intruder in your example basically has to have the skills of a special ops soldier or professional trick-shooter to do what you claim. Why would such an individual be pulling a common home robbery?

      --
      There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
    130. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Collectivism is a mental disease. You should seek treatment, as you are a danger to yourself and others.

      If you disagree, then I suggest you start smoking immediately, because Hitler banned smoking because it was bad for you.

    131. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      Depends on the purpose.

      A defense weapon needs to be reliable enough to shoot multiple times because one shot is often not enough to end a threat.

    132. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Your post is very self contradictory. Which is it? Are they fringe right, moderate, libertarian, or left leaning?

      Or are you saying that people across the entire political spectrum in the US believe in private gun ownership?

    133. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3-D printing is the most moron-proof method of making a gun (rather it will be if materials ever get robust enough to make it so). The reason people care about 3-d printing guns and not machine shopping guns is that a 3-d printer can allow someone who doesn't even know how a gun works to produce them in numbers limited only by time and availability of materials.

      In order to machine yourself a gun you need to know enough about how the gun works and about how to use specialized tools to fabricate the individual parts. On a 3-D printer you just need to have found a file somewhere and let the computer do all the complex stuff.

    134. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by tmosley · · Score: 1

      You like having criminals come into your house while you are home to rob you? Then live in a disarmed area. Prefer than they do it while no-one is home? Then live in an armed area.

      You seem to advocate the former. I hope you don't have a family.

    135. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Husband + wife = marriage. That's the proper definition. I know it's not popular any more, but it's the truth.

    136. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's also possible to make AK receivers from scratch- all you need is a template, a piece of sheet metal, a drill, and a cheap Harbor Freight shop press. AK building has been going on for years in the US. One guy even made an AK receiver from a reclaimed Amish farm shovel. It was incredily ingenious and a great demonstration of how pointless weapons laws are in the face of human creativity and tenacity.

    137. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      Are you absolutely insane?

      I have a hard time reconciling that you right wing nuts support the right to bear arms when everything else you believe in supports a theocratic plutocratic authoritarian police state where the ultra wealthy wield absolute power with impunity over the lesser serfs.

      I am a radical liberal, a socialist even. And I support the right to bear arms, more now than ever to defend myself and my country from the conservatives who would enslave their fellow citizens and end the American dream of liberty and justice for all that the liberal founding fathers began and embodied in the constitution. There are more rights than the right to bear arms, and all of them must be respected.

    138. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You made a good point which made me think for a moment, but then I realized in reality it doesn't matter.

      If you pull a gun on the secret police while they are 'disappearing you' for a presumably unjustified reason, they now have a reason. And no matter how many guns you have, they'll have you outnumbered/outgunned.

      In reality guns don't matter, if you take a look at Europe the countries with the tightest gun restrictions and (complete ban of pistols except LEO in the UK) to the most liberal (Switzerland, Czech Republic where concealed carry is possible) their murder rates are similar, and very few crimes are committed w/ legal guns.

      America is in the spotlight when it comes to guns because it has some of the most liberal gun laws in the developed world, coupled with an insane amount of gun violence. But that's because Americans are imbalanced and violent, guns are simply a tool, albeit a very effective one. If you made all guns, legal and illegal, disappear from America tomorrow, there would still be an inordinate amount of violence.

      There's twice as many active serial killers in America than the rest of the world combined, that's not a gun problem, that's a crazy problem.

      For what it's worth I'm American and I believe in civilian gun ownership. Although in my opinion they need to be registered and only licensed people should be able to own them.

    139. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      Yea, well you are both wrong.

      Your freedom to not call his husband by that title is not infringed by them having the right to get married.

      And a lot of us "gun nuts" do believe in wider liberty. The conservative halfwits just make us all look bad by association.

    140. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is why we won the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and were able to pull out in victory in such a short time!

      Oh wait...

    141. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Statistically, swimming pools are more dangerous than guns in the home.

    142. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by pnutjam · · Score: 3, Funny

      I want the 3D printed Abrams battle tank.

      This reminds me of a story:

      Lev was drafted into Russian army and sent out to fight on the front lines. The man in front of him was handed a rifle and Lev was handed afew bullets. They told him to wait until someone died and take his rifle.
      So Lev made his way to the front line knowing that if he retreated, he would be retreating into a hail of bullets from the political officer. As soon as he crouched down in a handy shell hole a major attack commenced, Nazis were shooting at him and charging towards him. A comrade yelled out, "Just point your finger and say "Bang!"
      With no gun, and no other hope, Lev pointed his finger at a Nazi running towards him and yelled "Bang!" The Nazi fell down, dead.
      Lev was impressed and gunned down more Nazis with his finger, "Bang! Bang! Bang!".
      Then he saw one Nazi headed straight towards him, moving in a jerky manner. He pointed his finger and yelled "Bang!" Nothing happened. He did it again, "Bang!" Again, nothing.
      As the Nazi drew closer he continued to shoot ineffectually with this finger, "Bang! Bang! Bang!" Until the Nazi reached him and stomped him into the ground.
      As Lev died, he heard the Nazi saying, "Tank, Tank, Tank, Tank, Tank, Tank...."

      (better joke in person>

    143. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My kid doesn't touch guns. Period. If he sees one, anywhere, he tells an adult immediately.

      Said every parent of every child that found a gun and discharged it. Amazingly few numbers of kids manage to shoot themselves or their friends when no gun is present in the home. Strangely enough guns are incredibly hard for kids to find out on the streets.

      That cute 4 digit pin code you key in? You kid knows it.

      4 digit pins are generally anniversaries, birthdays, or the last 4 of your SSN. Even assuming you're using a unique code, at your "release the gun in under a second" rate it would only take your kid at most 167 minutes to crack your code. Gun safety is very important but you're being a naive douchebag if you believe your kids, when left home alone, are not busily cracking the code to the most interesting object in the house, the porn blocker on the internet. But after they master the art of hacking computer passwords your silly little gun lock is trivial to defeat.

      Now maybe if your kids are paranoid idiots they'll leave the safe alone and do only what you tell them, but if there is even a glimmer of curiosity that you haven't yet crushed out of them then they will find and play with your guns when you're not looking, regardless of what you've taught them, because they're kids and that's what kids do. They make trigger locks and cable locks for a reason. But even those are easily defeated. The only truly "child-safe" gun is the one that is not in the home.

    144. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 3, Informative

      I've said it before and i'll say it again. The point of an armed populace isn't to fight an army at full strength. It's to be able to escalate domestic oppression to levels which make the government think twice, rather than sitting around and letting the secret police disappear people one at a time.

      It is a commonplace that the history of civilisation is largely the history of weapons. In particular, the connection between the discovery of gunpowder and the overthrow of feudalism by the bourgeoisie has been pointed out over and over again. And though I have no doubt exceptions can be brought forward, I think the following rule would be found generally true: that ages in which the dominant weapon is expensive or difficult to make will tend to be ages of despotism, whereas when the dominant weapon is cheap and simple, the common people have a chance. Thus, for example, tanks, battleships and bombing planes are inherently tyrannical weapons, while rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon--so long as there is no answer to it--gives claws to the weak.

      -- George Orwell, The Atomic Bomb and You

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    145. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Entropius · · Score: 1

      Definition according to who?

    146. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Stuarticus · · Score: 1

      When guns can show she same usefulness to society that the car currently does your argument might hold some water.

      --
      If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
    147. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 3, Funny

      The current President is in fact the holder of the Nobel Peace Prize awarded to him because he was not George W. Bush.

      That's a pretty good reason.

      Then where the fuck is mine???

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    148. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by crakbone · · Score: 1

      It's about training. If you don't train your kid to keep their finger off the trigger and safety off when walking around the house then yes your chances of random gun discharges when asking them to pickup a loaded weapon increase substantially. When my mother was a little girl she hunted rabbits with a .22 at age 8. She never accidentally shot anyone and provided food for the house. There are a ton of 30 year olds I would never trust with a firearm around me and there are bunch of 8 year olds I would have no problem with. It's about proper training and respect for a firearm. By the way, your chances of dieing are greater with a trained doctor than by anyone with a firearm in the US.

    149. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      Obama is neither a very good liberal nor a very good conservative.

      Turning into one helluva fascist, tho.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    150. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I built a gun release for my 45auto similar to how the shotgun holders in police vehicles work. Its mounted under the side of the bed and I can release it in under a second.

      Not paranoid, just like my "features". I designed it while we were having problems with home invasions in the area.

    151. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      A gun safe is not always a safe place to keep a loaded gun.
      If you have 3 seconds to get your gun or die, you are dead. If you have a couple minutes to get your gun and load it, you might have a chance.
      If your gun is stored ready to fire at a moments notice, there is a good chance it is going to be fired at an unexpected and probably tragic moment. It could be when a kid gets it, it could be when anger gets the better of someone, or it could be when an intruder breaks in. If it is fired at an intruder there is a better chance that intruder is someone you know (a teenager sneaking in late, or a spouse out for a late walk), then someone intending to harm you.

    152. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      "Would you buy a used car from this man?" dates back to 1960. Pretty stupid then in 1968 to trust him to end the war.

    153. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      Then don't try to print a single chamber gun.

      A pepperbox revolver in .22 is a lot more feasible.

    154. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      You missed your chance. They're prizes, not merit badges.

    155. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      Have you forgotten than not all guns are single chamber automatics?

    156. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guns are actually more defensive than offensive, due to their precise nature. Someone with a gun can hold a defensible position vs. many others so armed. On the other hand, explosives, biochemical and nuclear weapons are used to wipe out such defended positions so they can be advanced upon and held by guys with guns.

    157. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by crakbone · · Score: 1

      Odd I have about five friends who have prevented crimes with firearms without ever firing a shot. The mere sound of a shotgun being racked was enough to stop breaking in and entering. Even if you think about it makes sense. A criminal wants something for nothing. A criminal considers your life worth nothing. When the stakes are higher as in the threat of loss of life to the criminal a criminal will not take the chance. This is also why having a dog in your house is better than an alarm system. As well as most mass murder events in the US have occurred in areas where firearms are restricted.

    158. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      Society.

      The institution that defines such things.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    159. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      True. It is much easier to manipulate people than to coerce them.

    160. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Why would I want to own a gun?

      Guns are primarily weapons of offence.

      They are not primarily defensive devices.

      Let's see if you can complete this quote: "The best defense is..."

    161. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Charliemopps, I am not questioning you or judging you in any way, I am genuinely trying to understand why someone needs a gun ready and loaded at all times.

      Here's a good starting point:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper#Combat_Mindset:_The_Cooper_Color_Code

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    162. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the child-safe gun is the one that holds no mystery because the child has been to the range with you and fired it on many occasions and also has reasonable barriers to access -- if you understand why kids feel a compulsion to handle the gun in the first place, and defuse that, it goes a long way.

    163. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by csumpi · · Score: 1

      ROFL. Thanks for the joke. Made my day.

    164. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Feyshtey · · Score: 1

      "Go ahead, get excited about them 'horseless carriages'. Them stupid contraptions aint never gonna replace horses."

      3D printing is the future of manufacturing. The limiting factor right now is materials. You assume that all 3d printing will forever be done with plastic, and you are wrong. Already there are 3D printing techniques that instead bond metal powders, or use epoxy resins, or both.

      Given the mass potential of these manufacturing techniques you can bet that there will be a groundswell in materials research to advance it.(In reality this has already begun.) A cost-effective material that is as strong or stronger than steel being usable as a 3D printing medium isnt just a possibility, it's an inevitability.

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
    165. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by myth24601 · · Score: 1

      Complete BS. You know when an article starts out bashing an organization in the headline (NRA), it is a just a hit piece.

      Criminals get guns for two reasons, self defense from other criminals and to have power over their prey. In the US they avoid occupied homes in general and really avoid people who are known to be armed because it is like asking to get shot.

      --
      No matter where you go, there you are.
    166. Re: Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You use a 12 gauge for hunting small game? Now that's funny.

    167. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by stenvar · · Score: 1

      The manufacture of guns by conventional means requires large factories and an organised distribution chain that make it fairly easy for any government to regulate

      No, not really. A lathe, some tools, and some metal working skills will do. 3D printing just removes the need for metal working skills.

    168. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Feyshtey · · Score: 1

      The manufacture of guns by conventional means requires large factories and an organised distribution chain that make it fairly easy for any government to regulate,...

      That's not at all accurate. You only need some basic metal working machinery (lathes, presses, etc.) which I can purchase with cash for a few thousand dollars at any of 5 suppliers in a 50 mile range. They are not registered or tracked any more so than you buying a hand saw at Home Depot. These pieces of equipment are easily in tight enough tolerance to build highly accurate and reliable firearms.

      The limiting factor has nothing to do with anonymously aquiring the needed tools or materials. The limiting factor is the knowledge and skill to produce effective results.

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
    169. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by stenvar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Obama was a closet conservative and we all got fooled.

      Obama isn't a "closet conservative" either; he is simply politically and economically inept. I think the only question left for historians is whether he is actually worse than Bush; he's certainly trying to be.

    170. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by myth24601 · · Score: 1

      Defense in depth.

      I have lights on timers, light sensors, motion activated. I close and lock my doors at night. I have a small dog that can bark up a storm. I have a fence around my back yard. I have an alarm system that is monitored. If all that isn't a deterrent or one of those fail, I have a gun in a similar type safe mentioned above to fall back on as a last resort but hope it never comes to that.

      --
      No matter where you go, there you are.
    171. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      "He stepped into the hallway with a 12gauge shot gun"

      And I am 100% in favor of people who pass a background check being allowed to purchase a 12 gauge shotgun that can hold 2-4 rounds of ammunition for use in their home for such a situation.

      I am 100% against them owning a an AR15 which can fire 30 substantially more lethal rounds in a very short time.

      Then you don't understand your own history, rights, or why you have them.

      If you're an American, you should be very, very ashamed of yourself for this.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    172. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by stenvar · · Score: 1

      That's great, soon everyone will have be armed. Imagine how safe everyone will be.

      Criminals already have guns; they don't give a sh*t about gun control. Gun control keeps guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens.

    173. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by redmid17 · · Score: 1

      You must get tired painting with that broad of a brush. It's gotta be pretty heavy

    174. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      A defense weapon needs to be reliable enough to shoot multiple times because one shot is often not enough to end a threat.

      Being ex-military, I firmly believe that most civilians are simply not capable of handling them properly due to the complete lack of regulation surrounding certification of proficiency, and the lack of penalties for failing to maintain a weapon in a safe condition. That said, I'll ignore the whole debate about whether a firearm can ever be considered a defensive weapon, and concede your point.

      Do you really think that a weapon that's essentially untraceable and which would leave no forensic footprint with which it can be identified uniquely (such as striations on a normal weapon) would ever be used in a defensive capacity? Use it once, and then stick it in a microwave and it's gone. While you could stick a steel weapon into a blast furnace and have the same effect, there's several orders of magnitude difference in the accessibility here.

    175. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Princeofcups · · Score: 2

      I've said it before and i'll say it again. The point of an armed populace isn't to fight an army at full strength. It's to be able to escalate domestic oppression to levels which make the government think twice, rather than sitting around and letting the secret police disappear people one at a time.

      And you will be obviously wrong again. How can a few handguns make the military take notice when a well armed (AK47/grenade launcher/mortar) militia (a dozen examples in the middle east) can't stop them? Having a gun makes you "feel" like you have some power, but it's not true. The military is accountable to the government and the government only. That government is more and more under the control of the corporations. Those corporations are international, even if they have American names. See the problem?

      --
      The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
    176. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Princeofcups · · Score: 0

      Nice bullshit story. My gunsafe unlocks with a 4 digit code. I can release the gun in under a second and it drops open to a 45 degree angle grip out so you're ready to fire. It's loaded and ready to go.

      That's safe and efficient. If I had guns and kids, that's the way that I'd go. However, what's the point? Are you living in some super secret cold war spy movie? Do you have ninjas and pirates sneaking into your house in the middle of the night? No, you are just another paranoid gun owner. Using that gun to save yourself is about the same as winning the lottery. Statistically, it will never happen.

      --
      The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
    177. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Princeofcups · · Score: 2

      You've obviously never had your home broken into. You need to understand that both side manipulate and distort stats to basically feed you lies. In most cases where a home owner defends his home with a gun, he doesn't shoot anyone. A relative of mine had someone break into his home in the middle of the night. He stepped into the hallway with a 12gauge shot gun, saw the intruder in the living room and fired one round into the floor. The intruder ran. The action with the gun was never recorded by police.

      So guns are to waved in front of people to scare them? That is the most idiotic thing I've ever seen modded up on this site. The only reason to draw a gun is to kill. You pull the trigger until you hear the click, as they say. Threatening with a gun is a sure way to turn a tense situation into a deadly one, and in any fight, the odds are with the professional. So your relative probably scared a teenage burglar away, when a guard dog or a proper lock on the door would have done the same thing. Or even a yell of "hey you get out of here." Unless you are guarding the crown jewels, that gun is only one accident away from taking someone's life for no purpose.

      --
      The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
    178. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The current President is in fact the holder of the Nobel Peace Prize awarded to him because he was not George W. Bush.

      That's a pretty good reason.

      Then where the fuck is mine???

      Because you are G.W. Bush, obviously.

    179. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Jamu · · Score: 1

      Completely agree. I'd add that the threat is the defense. Actually shooting the firearm is no defense at all.

      --
      Who ordered that?
    180. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Feyshtey · · Score: 2

      I have 3 packs of coyotes with dens within a mile of my house. I've also seen mountain lion track and scat on my land. My son weighs less than 50 lbs, easily within the realm of a meal for these animals that have come within 50 feet of my barn and 50 yards of my home. I have dogs, cats, chickens, goats and horses. While the horses are not really threatened by these particular predators the others certainly are. In the time it would take me to go inside, unlock a firearm, unlock the amo (because anti-gun people are proponents of laws requiring them be in two different locked containers...), load the weapon, and return to the hazard, these predators would have killed and left with their kill. What if that kill is my son? And god forbid that someone would attempt to break into my home while my family were there. There's no neighbor to run to. There's no neighborhood watch that is going to spot something suspicious and call 911. I'm one of millions of farmers and ranchers that live in rural areas where there might be 1 sherrif assigned a 100 square mile region. Or worse. You going to make sure that every gun law is ammended to provide exceptions for every farmer or rancher? Yeah, I didnt think so. Thankfully you dont really hear too much about people breaking into remote farm houses in the middle of the night. You know why? Because most farmhouses are full of people that know where the loaded weapons are, and how to use them. And the criminals know it...

      You might live in a nice fairytale community. There are millions more who live in areas where there are multiple child predators and other sex offenders within blocks of their home. (http://www.familywatchdog.us/ShowMap.asp?frm=0, When was the last time you took the time to check your neighborhood?) How about the neighborhoods that are run by gangs, or dominiated by drugs and crime? You want to ask a child predator who's trying to grab your kid out of the front yard to hang on for a minute while you unlock, load and come back with your handgun? How about the guy that busts through your bedroom window at 2am trying to find drug money? You think these people are going to show you the courtesy of waiting while you arm yourself?

      These arent fantasy scenarios. These are things that happen daily . But you dont see the stories about people that successfuly defend themselves with firearms because the narrative in mainstream media is that guns are bad. You only hear the stories about the CRIMINLS who harm the UNARMED innocent people that CANT DEFEND THEMSELVES.

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
    181. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      This is why, even if you aren't going to deal with the person, you always answer the door, preferably, with a firearm in hand. Even if it is just to yell "fuck off" through the door.

      12 gauge is better for home defense, but that's only after they've already gotten in. For the door answering, you need a large-ish caliber handgun, 9mm or bigger. (.380 doesn't cut it, you need to be able to shoot through your own door and have enough punch to do damage flesh and bone on the other side. .380 is OK for CCW though.)

    182. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While it does sound like you are responsible (presuming you are the ONLY one with the combination to the safe containing the loaded gun) and you have a good attitude regarding training, I have to disagree with your last statement.

      Since Newtown, there have been a number of compilations of shooting injuries in the news, and a number of them have been gun owners shooting innocent bystanders or themselves whilst cleaning their guns. The gun deaths per year number roughly 32,000 in the US whereas the swimming deaths per year number only about 3880.

      The bottom line is that you are absolutely right about needing good firearms training. Unfortunately we can't seem to require people to be well trained before purchasing a firearm. We'll let any old schmoe have one - and the results are obvious.

    183. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Entropius · · Score: 1

      According to a large fraction of the American people, according to several large American religious institutions, and according to an overwhelming majority of the people I interact with, two men or two women can marry.

      Language is defined by its users. Lots of gay couples use the word "married" to describe themselves, and lots of people recognize that use and use it also to describe them.

    184. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do not need an FFL to manufacture a receiver (or any gun) for personal use. You need an FFL to sell them.

    185. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Canada it's illegal to keep a firearm loaded in storage or in transport. Basically it's only legal load it at the time you plan to fire it.

      AC

    186. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Going around shooting potential home-intruders might be effective initially, but it's not a long-term solution.

    187. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Feel free to disarm yourself if you like.

      Not all of us live in la-la land where 2 rounds shot off the back porch is a viable option. In addition, hurricane doors are great for the wealthy, but folks living in rental property can't make their homes into fear-cages like yours, or places where that would be just a waste of money, you, as a sanctimonious blowhard decide that nobody else should be able to decide how to manage their risks themselves.

      Stupid liberals. How come you never decide the way to fix crime isn't revocation of citizenship and one-way tickets to africa? Instead, you want to disarm the victims.

    188. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      Yes, nutjobs who believe a chunk of metal is all about freedom and oppression and see government plots everywhere? Nuts like that?

      If it's just a chunk of metal, why are you so afraid of it?

    189. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2

      The term "right-wing" is meaningless. It just means "not-left." Left has a definition: govt controls means of production; individual subservient to the collective whole. What does right-wing mean? It can mean Milton Friedman and Adolf Hitler. It can mean Ayn Rand and Patrick Buchanan. The term right-wing, as is currently used, just means "not-left."

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    190. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Feyshtey · · Score: 1

      A "militaristic" president is more likely patriotic, who has a sense of defending freedom. While in foreign policy this can lead to some xenophobic nuttery, a far greater danger domestically is an intellectual who thinks that he (or she) knows better how every person should live. And if he just forces it on them they will eventually see how much better things are.

      No one is accusing Obama of being militaristic. And yet his appointees are buying ammunition and anti-personell and anti-mine armamants for use by domestic law enforcement at record rates.

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
    191. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "If the barrel and/or the slide is made of even the best plastic, I wouldn't trust it to take the 35ksi of a normal 9mm round even once. That application requires properly heat treated 4130 or 4140 steel (or 316 stainless)."

      We've got plastics with far higher tensile and compressive strengths. We've had them for over a decade. Kevlar, anyone?

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    192. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Jamu · · Score: 1

      Which is why a clearly visible shooting target, with the groin-area shot out, is more effective than an actual gun.

      --
      Who ordered that?
    193. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      If someone breaks into my house in the middle of the night, the likely outcome is that he (likely a he) will trip over one of the sleeping black dogs scattered over the floor, break their leg and sue me.

      Much easier than cleaning up shotgun mediated pieces parts.

      I've got a number of guns, none of which are ready for instant action. That's what pepper spray (Bear spray in my neck of the woods). It's much easier for me to pull the trigger on 6 ounces of 10% capacin than an ounce of lead. Better patterning than 00 buckshot. Easier on the drywall.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    194. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      ... It only needs to fire once to serve its purpose.

      Bang! You missed.

      Bang! Bang! Bang! (continue until magazine empty) --- finally hit your squirrely fat behind, you're dead.

      I'm going to keep my accurately milled stainless steel Mini-14 over your plastic pathetic. Interestingly, the feds have no knowledge of me owning that perfectly legal gun. And further, they don't particularly care. If you're just trying to fire a single round, you just need a piece of pipe, a couple of springs and a small steel pin. Stuff you can find in even a TrueValue "hardware" store.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    195. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " keeping the guns in the hands of only the police, army, and the criminals well-connected enough to access a shadowy underworld of illegal imports and stolen guns."

      Why would anyone else need or want one? Apart from the psychos and criminals not well-connected enough? This is not a "gun-hobby" item. Not even the most fanatic of gun owners has any use for a gun that lasts just a couple of firings. This is either the ultimate disposable crime tool, or a poor and unreliable gun for people that regulations have already decided (usually for good reason) are not to be trusted with a gun.

      "and download a model file."

      Possession of which can just as easily be made illegal without the proper permit. It is possible to make owning a collection of computer bits arranged in a particular way illegal. We have laws like this already.

      On the contrary, an inexpensive and nearly "self-destructive" firearm is ideal for extra point defense. A $500 Glock is a good concealed carry pistol, but it is stupid to leave it in a car. A printed gun would be ideal to live in the center console of a vehicle. Not only is the financial loss less if it gets lost or stolen, it's also less harmful to the general public than the Glock if it ever does get in the wrong hands. (it's going to be used a couple times and that's it).

      At the same time, as a defensive tool, the pigs will already take away whatever gun you use to defend yourself. And, in most pigs eyes, guns are for pigs only so you won't get it back. This makes a printed gun IDEAL for defensive use.

      Before you go bleating about it, some places it's illegal or prohibited to conceal carry. As long as those exist, people will be leaving loaded guns in their cars. LAW ABIDING people. Change the laws, prohibit any say over defensive weapons in businesses and government property and magically, no more guns in cars.

      Don't like a gun in my car? Maybe change the situation around so the pigs don't take defensively used guns and the market for something like this will go away. Until then, deal with it.

    196. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why does everyone keep thinking a single person has ultimate power in a republic?

    197. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by x0 · · Score: 1

      Princeofcups

      Threatening with a gun is a sure way to turn a tense situation into a deadly one, and in any fight, the odds are with the professional. So your relative probably scared a teenage burglar away, when a guard dog or a proper lock on the door would have done the same thing. Or even a yell of "hey you get out of here." Unless you are guarding the crown jewels, that gun is only one accident away from taking someone's life for no purpose.

      Complete and utter bullshit. The criminal created the deadly situation when he chose to break into my house. The rest of your post is transference tripe - scared that someone 'might be an accident'. You want to be a victim? Fine, go cower someplace else. Don't for a second think I'll allow you to legislate me into being a victim.

      And for some, the crown jewels are their kids.

      m

      --
      In the immortal words of Socrates, who said; 'I drank what?'
    198. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      "intent" is key.

      You can do what you want with Title 1 firearms, as long as you don't INTEND to transfer them later.

      If you make one, decide you want something else a year later, you can sell what you made no problem.

      Just don't get caught doing stuff like repeatedly making the same (more or less) gun, "intent" is not just what you intend it's also appearances and what you can or can't get convicted on. So don't play fast and loose with the numbers.

    199. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      If, when and where societies decide to change the definition of marriage, that's their prerogative. Our objection is to the use of judicial activism to force such things against the will of society. If a court decides that society doesn't have the ability to define marriage as it sees fit, then marriage becomes meaningless. If it's too arbitrary to limit marriage to one man and one woman, then it's also too arbitrary to limit it to two people.

      In my country, when the question is put to the voters, we're pretty evenly split with only a sought advantage to those who are opposed. That will most likely change but until it does, marriage is the union of one man and one woman.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    200. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. It's a big leap from 'I disagree with gun ownership' to 'I hope gun owners are killed or seriously injured.'

      Not for the typical liberal it isn't. Their way, or you die. Just like Stalin, Lenin, Mao, etc.

    201. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fine. So do you agree with the proposition that every single person with a firearm should be required to have the same gunsafe, and should be checked, randomly, to make sure they use it?

                      mark

    202. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "What then, is a good defense against someone who has a gun?"

      You would do well to the heed the advice of Vice President Joe Biden - "Buy a Shotgun"
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saiga-12
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jafkVM-jnbE
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD0PKDGlwiw

      Buy a Shotgun

    203. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Feyshtey · · Score: 2

      And you will be obviously wrong again. How can a few handguns make the military take notice when a well armed (AK47/grenade launcher/mortar) militia (a dozen examples in the middle east) can't stop them?

      And you would obviously be wrong. We are drawing down our troops in Afghanistan and Pakistan largely because its apparent that it is impossible to defeat the insurgents there without glassing the entire region. The insurgents have succeedeed in making the engagement far too costly in terms of finances and political capital to proceed. Our military has conceeded that it cannot control the region without more indiscriminant tactics that would never be accepted on the world political stage, and that the region can be at best issolated but not conquered.

      We have the most powerful and most advanced military in the world (for the moment), and we cant defeat people staging their resistance from caves.

      Vietnam wasnt that different.

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
    204. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can in fact legally do that today with a bit of paperwork and an etching tool to put a serial number on it. In many states it would be wholly legal provided you never sold such an item across lines.

      I *believe* the filing cost is about $5 (plus meta fees like a passport style photo) for ATF Form 1.

      With a .22 (common varmint round) or shotgun shell it's basically totally safe (still unecessarily risky compared to manufactured, but better than many historic weapons given modern metallurgy in your pipes).

      Percussion caps would be old blackpowder style guns.

      I'm not going to post the guide as I'm in the office...

      But for a basic shotgun you use the pipe as mentioned, a threaded cap you drilled through, a 2x4 and a lot of twine and varnish.

      The threaded cap is to avoid the blowing your hand off part. You can make it substantially safer with two caps, a nail, and a coil spring to simulate a firing pin / transfer rod

      In terms of your stories and looking forward to it, please do not be a hoplophobic harm wishing fool. These systems are made by people that believe in revolutionary capability as absolutely as some people believe in their God. The capability to manufacture and possess them is as important as free speech (there's a reason it's our second amendment), even if many feel that is antisocial.

      Idiots will always be idiots and hurt themselves being stupid. But at least in current systems these are intended as something triviailly mass manufactured that can never have its components banned or confiscated in entirety.

      Unlike a steel press with which you can nearly trivially make a Sten/Sterling SMG (and full auto is easier to make than semi) -- a plastic fab system is more likely to be accessible/available to more people in the near future. In this context, "printing" a gun is more important than "milling" one because 3D printing is likely to be vastly more available.

      In this context you need to understand their purpose, much like the single shot, $3 pistols distributed to French resitance in WW2, these weapons exist in the context of a (freedom fighter | terrorist | rebel resistance | browncoat scum) utilizing them to obtain a better weapon.

      If that thought terrifies you or another reader -- it should, and you should consider that ability to bear arms as a powerful incentive to compromise and engage in ethical behavior without forcing your concept of ethical behavior upon others through military or police use of violence.

      And that... that is the point of printing arms. So that the lowliest most starved peasant is on closer-to-equal footing with a soldier, and so that being an aggressor comes with dramatically more risk.

      Don't worry, if you try to regulate the bullets to get around it, we'll print shotgun shells too...

    205. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Anti-mine armaments? What's wrong with that?

      Now do stop making things up.

    206. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by stanrock · · Score: 1

      Cool! I wanna see those guys explode...how can I turn our government on us?

    207. Re: Barrel and slide/bolt too? by chihowa · · Score: 1

      There's nothing wrong with that. If he owns one gun, a shotgun is the most versatile and a 12 gauge is the most versatile gauge. There are plenty of small game loads available.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    208. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Why do you assume it has to be an intellectual who thinks he knows better how every person should live? There are plenty of regular old dumbasses who think they know better. That's the worst thing about ignorant people: They don't realise their own lack of knowledge.

    209. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      There was a time when war was simpler: If you were at war with country X, then you did your best to slaughter everyone in that country until surrender or victory by default.

      Things are so much more political now.

    210. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by chihowa · · Score: 1

      A relative of mine had someone break into his home in the middle of the night. He stepped into the hallway with a 12gauge shot gun, saw the intruder in the living room and fired one round into the floor. The intruder ran. The action with the gun was never recorded by police.

      Am I the only one here concerned about the floor? The cost of repairing my floor would be greater than the value of anything that could be hauled off by a single burglar.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    211. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They can call it whatever they want, that doesn't change the proper defintion of the word. I can also claim I'm married to my dog or my car. Or how about we expand the definition of murder? Killing your dog, or a mosquito, or your keyboard is also now murder. Starting to see any problems? There's reasons words have specific definition. If you start expanding those definitions the words become arbitrary and meaningless.

      Also, no matter how the word "marriage" gets defined legallay in the future, there will ALWAYS be something special that only a male + female relationship can have; no matter how you twist words a same sex relationship will never be able to offer the same thing.

    212. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Use the environment to your advantage:

      - Give expendable solder anti-aircraft missile. Doesn't have to be a good one. If you need to, just paint a cardboard tube.
      - Position soldier on top of school.
      - Enemy helicopter sees soldier aiming missile, and quickly shoots first.
      - Make sure you have plenty of people with cameras nearby to capture this slaughter of children for the world to see.

    213. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Feyshtey · · Score: 1

      Making things up?

      I shouldnt have said anti-mine. That makes it sound like they are used to get rid of mines. They are instead Mine-Resistant Armored Protection vehicles. (MRAP. The same units deployed by the US military in the middle east.) But Dept of Homeland Security only ordered 2700 of them. Only 50 or so per state. Just think that thru for a second. Why would you need 50 in any state? How many does DHS think it actually needs to have at any one place at any one time, where they couldnt instead have 1 with more in transit for a couple of hours?

      Although you can probably point out that I'm getting the information from cookey right wing conspiracy sites... like FORBES. http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/03/10/why-the-heck-is-dhs-buying-more-than-a-billion-bullets-plus-thousands-of-guns-and-mine-resistant-armored-vehicles/

      This info came to light at about the same time as the "1.6 billion rounds of hollow-point ammunition, along with 7,000 fully-automatic 5.56x45mm NATO “personal defense weapons” plus a huge stash of 30-round high-capacity magazines." that are mentioned in the same Forbes article.

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
    214. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by chihowa · · Score: 1

      You don't need to go to black powder. Nitrocellulose is incredibly easy to make. The primer would be the most difficult part to make safely and reliably.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    215. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Sorry, all the world conflicts where the secret police( aided by the CIA) let opposing people disappear day after day had no strict gun laws.
      Chile, Argentinia ...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    216. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was not quite like that in The Warszawa Ghetto Uprising:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising
      But they had to make every bullet count.

    217. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Feyshtey · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I really should have used quotes around "intellectual".

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
    218. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      They defeat themselves in any and all occupation missions.

      Yeah, we really kicked our own asses trying to occupy Germany and Japan after that last little disagreement we had with them.

      They had us leaving with our tails between our legs after only a couple GENERATIONS...

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    219. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Part of the background problem is political: Every attempt to to regulate guns in any way, no matter how small, faces an instant and powerful block from a lobby that regards every form of regulation as a conspiracy to take all their guns away.

    220. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      "It is possible to make owning a collection of computer bits arranged in a particular way illegal."

      And that works so well for stopping piracy, yes?

    221. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "It's to be able to escalate domestic opposition to levels which make the government think twice, rather than sitting around and letting the secret police disappear people one at a time."

      There, FTFY. Populations, by and large, don't "oppress". Governments do.

      But I agree with you. Anybody who thinks the general population would be up against full military force has been living too long on Fantasy Island. For one thing, every member of the U.S. military has taken an oath to uphold the Constitution. And if that isn't enough, there's the fact that they would be fighting against their own people.

      But even having said that: in the U.S. today are over 300 MILLION firearms, and uncounted rounds of ammunition. Anybody who thinks that is not considerable force probably has a permanent home on that same Fantasy Island.

    222. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      He only appears a liberal when compared against your own right-wing.

      Not even there. What he appears to be is a classic Democrat - if the Republicans want it, he's opposed, if the Dems want it, he's in favour.

      Though he does seem to have made an exception to that rule for assassinations - he's the only Pres so far who has claimed that he has the legal right to assassinate American citizens, and then gone ahead and done it (semi-publicly - I'm still not sure whether that was supposed to have gotten out).

      Though he does seem to have done the right thing with the Boston Bombers - treating them like common criminals rather than dignify them as "enemy combatants"....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    223. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      In europe feudalism degraded for various reasons. Claiming that guns had anything to do with it is utter nonsense.
      In Japan feudalism more or less ended by decrete of the emporer. The HEAD OF FEUDALISM, forced by invading forces.
      Guns in the hands of the weak, as desireable when you want them to uprise, are nothing the democracies in europe want. And why should we as the public?
      I mean: how many bank or store robberies with guns do you have each day in the USA, how many dead each day to gun fire? In germany death to guns is usually lower than 10 per year ... a store or bank robbery happens once every ten years ...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    224. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "- find their ground bases, and attack them on airfields and in hangars, e.g. with mortar fire. Be content with taking out just one at a time, or just damaging some."

      And keep in mind that mortars are pretty easy to make, even with primitive tools and resources. Mortars with explosive shells have been around for centuries.

    225. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Close. You are referring to the 'third evil hole'

      In short you need a disconnector and rate reducer. See most people think that by filing down the hammer on an AK it goes full auto, problem is it just empties a magazine uncontrolled and you can't stop it. This also allows the gun to possibly fire out of battery (think non fully closed bolt while hitting primer on round.)

      The trick to that is another notch in the two bolt carrier rails and some extra hardware easily found from parts kits. Auction gun websites are easy to find as well. Fully legal to own, but the BATF likes to define what is 'intent' on a whim.... So they could say just by owning the parts and an AK you have intent to go all full auto. It's a really slippery slope and asinine at that.

      Legally? Federal Bubba prison if caught. Stashed in your home for a backup when all SHTF? Possible. But logically? Even the US military is removing the full auto feature lineup and using semi/burst. The full auto while cool just doesn't do much for you other than suppressive fire. Watch some youtube videos on full auto using the standard 30 round GI mags, the sustained fire empties it in seconds, so doesn't do much good other than suppress someone pinned down.

      Get yourself an AR if you want to join in the crowd and pay 1k for an upper and another 1k for a brick of 5.56/.223 ammo.
      Get yourself an AK if you want to go to hell and back and still fire a heavier round with a rifle that is more reliable and ammo at $375 a brick.

      And let's not forget the 7.62x54r...... Get a VEPR (AK style) or even a Mosin M44 (Bolt action) and some surplus steel core ammo tins for $90 bucks a pop? Presto... Anti-Material gun right there ready to light up someone's day.

      Hope someone learned something out of this.

    226. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Although you can probably point out that I'm getting the information from cookey right wing conspiracy sites... like FORBES. http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/03/10/why-the-heck-is-dhs-buying-more-than-a-billion-bullets-plus-thousands-of-guns-and-mine-resistant-armored-vehicles/

      It does indeed read like something from a right wing conspiracy site. Or Fox News. Note how there are several links throughout the piece but not a single one on the fundamental thing the article is about; the same thing you are claiming.

      Note also at the end of the article they've already had to apologise from inflating one figure from thousands to millions.

      But for signs of tin-foil hattedness, start at the top. It's not from a Forbes journalist it's from a "contributor". The same label Fox News use when they want to keep some distance from cranks.

      Second he contributes on climate, energy, environmental issues. So, what;s the betting he's a Global Warming denial crank? [click}. Oh look, first article that comes up. Yes, he's a denier.

      This is like shooting fish in a barrel.

    227. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      A 60 year old is only likely to win if he has more gun excersise experience than the youngster. If both habe the same, the younger one has a higher chance.
      And: in my country burglars usually don't have guns.
      On top of that: in my country the stuff stolen gets replaced by the insurance.
      Where is the point in having a gun?
      Ah yes, and in my country unfortunately the burglars are smart, they break into homes where the inhabitants are away. The cases that a burglar breaks into a house where some resident is living is supper slim.
      And, should I mention: no, in my country you can not simply shoot a burglar, that is murder. You only may use deadly force if the burglar is also equipped with a gun. (And is in fact threatening you)

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    228. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      We have the most powerful and most advanced military in the world (for the moment), and we cant defeat people staging their resistance from caves.

      Vietnam wasnt that different.

      Yes, we can defeat them. If we're willing to pay the political price.

      Alas, we're not willing to pay that price, mostly because the price of defeating them isn't worth the bother.

      Note, though, that Vietnam was a bit different. We were fighting (and defeating) an insurgency. BUT, we gave the insurgency a refuge by refusing to actually invade North Vietnam (where the guns, ammo, bombs were all coming from) or the USSR (where the guns, ammo, bombs were all made). And an insurgency operating out of a safe haven is IMPOSSIBLE to defeat permanently.

      Until you decide you're tired of this "safe haven" crap and eliminate it.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    229. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      The reason gun ownership is constitutionally protected is NOT for home protection. The purpose of amendment is so the people can rise up and overthrow the government in the event we have a military coup or the government turns into a fascist regime (which is what's slowing happening now)

      Thomas Jefferson quotes for those who are historically disabled:

      "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. "
      "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. "
      "God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
      "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."
      "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."
      "The man who reads nothing at all is better than educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers."

    230. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      If robbers know people have guns, they will bring guns. They'll have less compunction about shooting you.

      Did you know that "Home invasion" is a much rarer crime in the USA than the UK? Criminals in the USA seem to prefer breaking into empty houses rather than houses that include people (who might have guns).

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    231. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      No, guns are a tool. A tool that I have a constitutional right to own. How dangerous or risky that tool is, is completely irrelevant. You think we live in a different world than existed in 1776... and by making that argument you do nothing more than prove to me exactly the opposite.

    232. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      The criminal does not want theirr kids.
      He wants money, gold, jewels or other valuables.
      And he wnats to be the heck out again before the police arrives.

      You lack to understand that the gun problem in the USA is just a story of self fullfilling provecies.

      If you had no gun, the burglar had none either. He is trying to protect himself from YOU.

      And simple burglars usually have no guns anyway. Having a gun gives you 5 years in jail, a burglar attempt 3 or 4. There is no point in having one (speaking about my country).

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    233. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      The fraction is not as tiny as you belive. Hint: in math I eould divide the amount of gun death per year by the number of guns available.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    234. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by jsrjsr · · Score: 1

      BTW, I don't know anyone who owns an AR16. In fact, I'd wager that no one anywhere owns an AR16.

      The AR-16 was Eugene Stoner's last design for ArmaLite. It's possible that a prototype still exists somewhere. It was a selective-fire, gas-operated rifle in 7.62 NATO (similar to .308 Winchester).

    235. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      I am 100% against them owning a an AR15 which can fire 30 substantially more lethal rounds in a very short time.

      Why do so many people have this insane belief that a .223 is an incredibly lethal/powerful round???

      Hint: it's not. It's a glorified varmint round (note that the .223 is not especially powerful even compared to other varmint rounds like the .222), which means it's intended for shooting things like rabbits, not people. The .223 was NOT adopted by the Army because it was powerful - it was adopted because it was lightweight and you could carry a bunch more little rounds than you could the big rounds (.308) it replaced.

      It's not even close to as powerful as a .270, a .308, a.30-06, much less a 12 Gauge shotgun shell.

      Note that at the distances involved in a shooting in a house, pretty much every ball in a shotgun shell is going to hit the target, and any one of those balls (if you're loaded with, say, #1 Buck or larger) is more lethal than a .223, much less all 12 or so (depending on the shot size).

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    236. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      I know someone that went crazy in his 20's, killed someone with a hammer, I had to testify against him... he beat the rap but they were still after him for a bunch of other stuff so he fled to Mexico... he occasionally calls me just to say "hi!" is that good enough for you?

      If he ever breaks into my house, there wont be any warning shots.

    237. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thankfully you dont really hear too much about people breaking into remote farm houses in the middle of the night. You know why? Because most farmhouses are full of people that know where the loaded weapons are, and how to use them. And the criminals know it...

      Robbing rural farmers is inconvenient, and presents a lousy risk/benefit trade-off from numerous perspectives. You have to travel long distances to shop for targets. You will stick out like a sore thumb as a stranger in a remote, sparsely populated area, meaning that you will attract attention going in, and be easy to spot and track trying to escape.

      I live in a city that is no fairytale community. It has very few gun regulations, high gun ownership, and plenty of crime. I have had my home broken into. Not at 2AM by a crazed, homicidal maniac of course, because that is an exceedingly rare crime. Rather, by they typically opportunistic thief who enters a home at a time when the residents are most likely to be away, and searches it for jewelry, electronics, drugs and weapons. Owning a gun will not stop this kind of thievery. More often than not, it feeds the black market for guns.

      I spend a great deal of time in the wilderness among coyote, bears and mountain lions. Carrying a gun won't protect me from these predators, because if they want to eat me, I won't see them coming. Fortunately, they don't want to eat me. Again, its a poor risk/benefit proposition for them.

      Most people who are die by the violence committed by a human kill themselves or are killed by someone they know. These scenarios are a far greater threat to the average person than violent criminals or large predators, and only increase with the proximity of firearms.

      Best of luck to you.

    238. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why did he put a hole in his own carpet? Most thieves will just leave at the site of the gun. They know it isn't worth facing an armed homeowner when so many other homeowners are afraid of guns and would never possess one.

    239. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Kreigaffe · · Score: 1

      bullet striations do not uniquely identify a firearm.

      the only occasions where that CAN be used to uniquely identify a firearm involve some sort of marring in the chamber/barrel unique to that gun (that is, actual physical damage), or if the firearm was shoddily manufactured (that would more or less count as physical damage).

      thing about modern manufacturing techniques is that one barrel is pretty much identical to another barrel off the same line.

      now, you can use those striations to shorten the list of possible firearms -- the direction of the rifling can be determined, if you're clever you can find the rifling rate, and obviously the type of rifling (number of leads/lands, their shape etc). but.. to narrow it down any more than a list of firearm types?

      That's voodoo.

      You can say "this bullet may have been fired from that gun", but you can't say "this bullet WAS fired from that gun". It's a huge difference, one being circumstantial and the other conclusive.

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    240. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually they are quite useful in defense. Usually you just get yours out before the other guy does and he leaves. No shots fired. That doesn't make the nightly news like some insane person shooting people does though.

    241. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Entropius · · Score: 1

      You can claim that you're married to your dog or car, but few enough people will also call that relationship "marriage" that it won't be anywhere near a language-wide definition of the term. In the case of speakers of American English, a sufficient number agree with gay folks' use of the word "marriage" to describe their relationships that this is now common usage. Perhaps you don't think this is what "marriage" means, but enough of your countrymen disagree with you that there is wide recognition of a broader meaning of the words "marriage" and "married" than the one you espouse.

      This isn't a legal thing or a government thing; it's a social and linguistic thing.

    242. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Entropius · · Score: 1

      The definitions of words aren't officially set by anyone (at least, not in the English language). Society very much does have the ability to define marriage as it sees fit, but here "society" means loose, voluntary associations of people. If two ladies want to do some ritual in a church, exchange rings, and then call themselves married, and their social environment (friends, family, relations, etc.) decides to also call them "married", then for that segment of society the word "married" means, among other things, the relationship that they have. Nobody has been forced to do anything; the evangelicals don't have to refer to them as "married" if they don't want. A language is nothing more than a set of mutually agreed-upon meanings of words; you don't have to describe the ladies as married, even if people around you agree to do so. You can call them whatever you like, but you can also call a chicken "pollo" if you like.

    243. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Feyshtey · · Score: 1

      1) Tell the farmers along the southern border that have property continuously vandalized or stolen how little danger there is in rural areas.

      2) You lock your weapons up when you leave your home, or you're an idiot.

      3) If you dont have a high probability of seeing a predator coming then you arent paying attention. And as you point out, they probably dont want to eat you. But they do eat chickens, cats, and goats, and wound or kill dogs that try to prevent it. The coyotes got continually more aggressive, killing bigger and bigger animals of mine until I started carrying a loaded weapon and killed a few of them. They keep a damn good distance now, only venturing closer once every 3 years or so. 1 or 2 rounds fired in their direction from 150 yards is plenty enough to keep them clear now. Point being, a loaded easily accessible firearm has prevented the loss of livestock and pets for a few years, where before we lost several.

      4) So people are killing people they know which means that its personal and often premeditated. And you think taking away a tool of murder is going to prevent that harm coming to aquiantances? Why are you not screaming bloody murder about the lack of concern for fellow man? Why arent you putting a fraction of the effort you put into anti-gun activism into the culture glorifying violence and hate? Why arent you condemning the gang image, and the bullying, and the road rage, and the depression, and the anger, and even the simple lack of manners of people showing no respect to others? There's a pretty easily definable root of the crimes, and it's not a piece of machinery. Its people like you who explain away the actions of disgusting people as a product or something other than the choices of those people. Hold people, their famailies, their communities, their social groups accountable for the violence. Quit desperately finding ways to blame ANYONE else for why it happened.

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
    244. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by x0 · · Score: 1
      More bullshit:

      The criminal does not want theirr kids. He wants money, gold, jewels or other valuables. And he wnats to be the heck out again before the police arrives. You lack to understand that the gun problem in the USA is just a story of self fullfilling provecies. If you had no gun, the burglar had none either. He is trying to protect himself from YOU. And simple burglars usually have no guns anyway. Having a gun gives you 5 years in jail, a burglar attempt 3 or 4. There is no point in having one (speaking about my country).

      Are you sure he doesn't want the kids, or to rape the wife? To what degree of certainty? What if he isn't a simple burglar? If he's broken into my house, he has no play, no benefit of the doubt.

      If he really wants to protect himself from me: Don't break into my house.

      m

      --
      In the immortal words of Socrates, who said; 'I drank what?'
    245. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by hodet · · Score: 1

      Fair enough. Thanks for answering.

    246. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      I don't care what two people want to call themselves. The effort to arrange, by judicial fiat, societal recognition of their relationship as a marriage is forcing the rest of us to not only acknowledge but to subsidize them.

      That, sir or madame, is the crux of the fight.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    247. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except in this case, it is specifically about legal definitions of words, which do need to be precisely defined and definitely matter... as I pointed out in my previous post, which you chose to ignore. In this case, people with an agenda are trying to get the legal definition of a word changed to suit their own ends. I understand why those people do it - they want to feel good about having a same sex relationship. That's fine, you can feel good about it all you want, but a same sex relationship never has been, never will be, and absolutely cannot ever be the same thing as a male + female relationship. If you choose to subvert the word "marriage" to mean any kind of romantic relationship you want it to mean, you do nothing but force yourself to come up with a new term for what was previously known as a marriage. There's no reason that you couldn't come up with some other legal term to define a same-sex relationship to give it the same privileges as a real marriage, so why go to all the bother of twisting the word marriage? It's because gay people are specifically striking back at people they feel mistreated them. It's a vendetta, nothing more.

    248. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lucky the 20 year old intruder wasn't as prepared or you'd have a dead father.

    249. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by wanfuse123 · · Score: 1

      I find it very interesting that a discussion about creating weapons that are 3D printed turn into a discussion of whether or not Obama is doing his job or is a liberal or not. People think the next revolution is going to happen in their own back yard. It's totally ridiculous to think that even a million people armed with hand guns that are 3D printed out of ABS plastic are going to take on the United States Army, Air Force, and Marines. A million people like that would have the same speed bump equivalent of our solders in South Korea stopping North Korea from invading South Korea. By the way I 3D print models in ABS plastic and trust me they are brittle, you don't want to have an explosion happening inside a piece of ABS plastic. The thing would have to have 1/2 inch thick plastic to withstand even a few shots. In the future the materials may be better suited for the purpose. In fact I have a material that may be up to the task, but further research is necessary. Practical guns are still 5 years away from 3D printing. Which is a good thing after reading the comments here. The revolution people really need to get bigger weapons, munitions like bazookas and things before they become any deterrent to the US government. (I suppose people feel it would be a great thing for everyone to carry around their very own bazooka?) I for one think that taking weapons home from the shooting range shouldn't be allowed till the age of thirty and not then until their is a thorough background check and psychological evaluation. It's a fact brains are not fully developed until the age of 30. I wonder if the Boston bombers would have been able to pass a psychological evaluation? My guess is NO! As for a background check, the US Government failed in that respect the Russians told us they were dangerous and we ignored them.

    250. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      I don't think anyone interested in guns for self-defense imagines themselves in a war against the full-might of the US military. If that happens (and I pray that it doesn't) the US military will itself be split and we will be living (and dying) in the midst of a civil war.

      The government cannot always protect its citizens and sometimes governments can be hostile or criminally negligent (see the KKK and "strange fruit". Ever wonder why black folks didn't protect themselves? It's because they were disarmed.)

      Re 3D printing - it will take a while before we are able to make machine / industry usable parts for cars, building supplies, guns etc... But it will happen.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    251. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By the standards of pretty much every other country in the G20 (including Russia), Obama is a conservative. He only appears a liberal when compared against your own right-wing.

      That assumes that if Obama were in another country that he'd pick the same positions. It's pretty clear that he picked some of his positions purely for political purposes. For example, his relatively moderate position on gay marriage from 2008 that he dumped as soon as it looked like he had political cover. Incidentally, even his 2008 position was to the left of Russia's position that same sex couples should not be able to adopt Russian babies.

      Citation: http://www.france24.com/en/20130426-russia-putin-adoption-gay-marriage-france

    252. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      This joke is so good. I've heard it before but I still laughed.

    253. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by AlphaWolf_HK · · Score: 1

      You're calling him a tool, but in reality you're a moron for being so short sighted.

      It would be hard as hell to regulate 3d printers to the degree that firearms are regulated, namely because 3d printers have far too many applications for any government to just restrict them to such and such person.

      It would basically be akin to forbidding encryption on the internet and requiring the ISPs to log all communications because it might be used to spread terrorist propaganda.

      --
      Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
    254. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by John.Banister · · Score: 1

      A description of modifying a FA Trigger pack into a SA Trigger pack is available at http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106235 I believe that if you wanted to make the firearm quickly changeable, the way to do it would be to have two trigger groups, one with the FA pack, and one with the SA pack. On HK G3 variants, it's pretty simple to remove and install a trigger group.

    255. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Care to back that up with an actual study measuring the IQ of firearms owners?

    256. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by bsane · · Score: 1

      Yes it is... I'd rather live in Brave New World than 1984.

      I realize someone famous said otherwise (too lazy to look it up), but I strongly disagree.

    257. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's the hard truth: someone's irresponsibility is not my fucking problem.

      Because possessing the "hard truth" makes you and the things you hold dear impervious to bullets fired irresponsibly?

    258. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't kid yourself, you're not some rugged frontiersman individualist bravely downloading files and courageously clicking "OK" on your computer (another devil from the large factories! o noes!)...

      Did knocking over that strawman make you feel like a tough guy?

    259. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      I wonder how viable electric primer - spark-based maybe? - would be.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    260. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by jamesh · · Score: 1

      Wow. It's a big leap from 'I disagree with gun ownership' to 'I hope gun owners are killed or seriously injured.'

      I don't actually disagree with a blanket ban on gun ownership. I do disagree with the mentality "i want a gun because i have a right to own a gun", and definitely disagree with the ease at which you can get a gun in some countries.

      The part of me that likes the idea of a gun exploding in the face of the person holding it is the part of me afraid that one day some loony will be pointing a gun at me and there will be nothing I can do about the result of them pulling the trigger (apart from hoping it explodes in their face)

    261. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by cas2000 · · Score: 1

      i am, pretty much without exception, in favour of the "information wants to be free" and "censorship is evil" arguments, but i can't help seeing this Cody Wilson guy and his ilk as irresponsible ideological fuckwits.

      but....well, maybe this is where the solution to US gun-nuttery lies.

      your second amendment says you have the right to keep and bear arms. i won't bother re-hashing the argument over whether that's only as part of an organised/well-regulated milita or not because it's not relevant to my point here.

      it doesn't say you have the right to buy or sell or trade them. or give them away. or lend them to anyone.

      so if your gun nuts want guns, they can make them themselves.

      of course, that'll never fly because the gun-nuts who bleat about their gun-owning rights are, for the most part, just the unwitting dupes of the gun manufacturers and their propaganda/political-lobby group, the NRA.

      and that's what the gun debate is all about - the right of scumbag corporations to make shitloads of money selling weapons to anyone (even to psycopaths) without government interference or regulation. if it wasn't for that, there would be no debate.

    262. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by cas2000 · · Score: 1

      you forgot the final rule:

      make sure you have some wizards who can cast really powerful and useful spells. invisibility would be a good utility spell. fireballs too. and polymorph other when you're facing a tank. and there's no way a military helicopter can stand up to a high-level summoned demon.

      hmm....some druids or clerics might help too.

      (i like to mix my fantasies - they're more fun that way and no less credible)

    263. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      So, is that half the actual police or something?

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    264. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Starteck81 · · Score: 1

      Predators look for easy targets. You almost never see a lion go after the strongest members of the herd they're hunting. Any creature that has their self preservation instinct intact will retreat unless they are really desperate to win what ever prize they are after. Hence the show of force with a gun is often all that is needed to send a burglar running out the way they came in. They simply didn't bargain for that level of resistance. This is especially true if they didn't think anyone was home. On the other hand if the person that breaks into your house is mentally unstable or coked up out of their mind they may not have any self preservation instinct left and they will kill you unless you put them down. In that case it is better to have the best lethal firepower you can buy.

      --
      "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed H
    265. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by DrXym · · Score: 1

      Which is why the rebels won the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Oh wait they didn't.

    266. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by DrXym · · Score: 1

      A typo invalidates my entire argument doesn't it? And yeah these whacky imaginary militias of yours would be reduced to the sort of activities you propose. And still losing.

    267. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by IRWolfie- · · Score: 1

      Oh I see, your little anecdote defeats scientific studies. Is that how it works?

    268. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by IRWolfie- · · Score: 1

      You are 80 times more likely to be murdered with a firearm in the USA than the UK.

    269. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      This isn't a legal thing or a government thing; it's a social and linguistic thing.

      It's legal and it's political. Hence the recent cases before the Supreme Court.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    270. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like plumbing type, transmission shafts, sheet metal, welders and lathes?

      Builders both legit and clandestine have been making guns like that for decades. And there's far less chance of your lathe getting backdoored by the FBI than your computer.

    271. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1: If 5% of that army refuses to comply (against American citizens), the entire logistical train breaks down and there is no war.

      2: You can't use Apaches against urban targets without either evacuating the city of non-combatants (good luck), or collaterally attacking them, thus creating more rebels.

      3: Given that private warships and artillery were common at the time the Constitution was ratified, your argument devolves to, "Since we've destroyed half the relevance of the right to keep and bear arms, the rest is meaningless and it's perfectly okay to destroy the rest."

      4: Civilians with no military training shouldn't attempt to tell people how to fight wars.

    272. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IOW, you were a sucker for a pretty face and pleasant words. How does it feel to wake up after having been easy all night?

    273. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By the standards of the US economy, pretty much every other country in the G20 (including Russia) is irrelevant.

    274. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Without firearms the car would not have been invented nor mass produced as it exists today. Learn some basic history you leftist idiot and stop FEELING and start THINKING.

    275. Re: Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess 3D printers will soon be used to make off-market "Sons-of-Zion" 3D printers...

    276. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here is something that I never understood. You say that "Guns require a commitment by the owner", and I totally agree with you on that. However, what about people who are known to be irresponsible? When can the society take away their right for owning a gun? In US it seems that we are ok with putting restrictiong on people's right to drive, their right to walk around in various neighbourhood, their right to vote, heck there are even restriction on who you could bang in the privacy of your own home. However, when it comes to guns, no restriction is considered acceptable since, I'm guessing, every gun owner is assumed to be responsible. Why?

    277. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by DrXym · · Score: 1
      Two pipes, one being a sheath over the other and drawn back using a rubber band such that when released it travels forward and a pin at its base strikes a round at the base of the inner pipe. It's quite feasible. If it were a .22 bullet it would probably work without any special effort. Aside from the pipe the person producing it might have to invest in some epoxy glue to secure the push pin, and perhaps masking tape to fashion a crude trigger / grip that's about it.

      Whether its safe or not is another matter and the risks increase as the calibre and the number of shots fired goes up.

    278. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by onyxruby · · Score: 1

      That's probably the best written description I have seen yet for 3D printing of guns.

    279. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Occams · · Score: 1

      Yes, the armed militia was effective in Washington's time. The British came back, in 1812 and after a few defeats, it beat them at New Orleans

      --
      Heavy is the head that wears the tinfoil hat.
    280. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      If robbers know people have guns, they will bring guns. They'll have less compunction about shooting you.
      Guns don't protect people:
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2013/mar/25/guns-protection-national-rifle-association

      And they would know this why? Most gun owners do not have NRA stickers and the like on their doors.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    281. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      Urban SWPLs and DINKs are different (and better!) than the rest of us.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    282. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      There's a bit of a schism in the community in my observations. The political split isn't between left and right, it's between authoritarianism and libertarianism. Probably not the right word choices, but oh well. What I mean is that both types of 'gun nuts' exist and the disagreements I've seen are like vi vs. emacs or distro wars.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    283. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      Why would I want one? Same reason I want a Liberator pistol: it seems like a neat technological trick.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    284. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      Restricting sales of most gun parts (and even ammo!) wouldn't be hard.

      What do you mean by "wouldn't be hard"? I'm assuming you mean from a technical perspective. No, it's easy, rewrite a few laws, give the ATF some new guidelines for interpretation, and it's done. The trick is in getting it done politically. Depending on what you are trying to do, this could be incredibly hard from that perspective.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    285. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      Non-gun-owning American asks:

      Why the hell are our gun laws so complicated? Is there any policy purpose, even a bad one, served by making the law so complicated that it makes me want to go write Xorg.conf modelines to rest my brains?

      Lots of theories. First is that the US does have a second amendment. Until/unless someone tries to repeal this, any legislation is supposed to comply with it. Laws get written depending on interpretation of this. Then more laws get written. Unfortunately, those writing the laws are generally ignorant from a technical perspective. Think of Internet legislation where the Slashdot reply is "Senator Soandso has no idea how computers work." Gun makers (yes, largely through their lobbying groups, esp. the NRA) are either not invited to the table don't offer help or sell out one group of gun owners in favor of another. If not invited or not offering help, loopholes are left that can be worked around. Selling out one group for another (historically, the NRA wouldn't say as much about laws that mostly affected poor, urban dwellers as opposed to those that might be a nuisance to rich country folk) leaves a different set of openings. Oh, and crappy gun laws let the NRA drum up donations.

      Those against private gun ownership are not terribly interested in closing loopholes. While there is a large middle ground seeking 'common sense' solutions, the debate and proposed legislation are driven, at the end of the day, by people who just want all guns gone. Period. If the legal morass is so deep that someone is afraid of buying, selling, or manufacturing a gun or gun related item or product, then they have had a minor victory.

      TL; dr, extremists on both sides have created this situation. Both sides gain some and both sides lose some.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    286. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      And they totally exist.

      [Citation needed]

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    287. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      Remember, slippery slope: a massive ban of everything would be difficult. OTOH, tightening the screw gradually, restricting them part-by-part would be much more "doable" - note how nowadays modding of AK-47 is a special puzzle of what parts must be domestically produced and what you are not allowed to include. IIRC, getting a pistol grip for it is nearly impossible. That way, regulation by regulation, this could be done without getting the public outrage.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    288. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      If you want to make a smoothbore single-shot, sure, that's easy. Now if you want a rifled barrel, a bolt and bolt carrier for semi-auto gas-operated rifle... a simple garage-style lathe won't be enough, and you'll need a lot of skill with non-CNC equipment.

      It's all about availablity. This whole endeavor is so that you wouldn't need three years of training in metalworking to make a functional semiautomatic gun.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    289. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      aka, "how to boil a frog".

      I've gotten a great deal of pushback when trying to point out how various proposals lead to the situation you describe (complete ban). "Oh, we don't want to do that, nobody wants to do that, we only want to do this."

      Yeah, in 1934, they didn't want to do anything except gets guns from the "Eye-ties and darkies".

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    290. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Pav · · Score: 1

      Being heavily armed seems to have worked very well for the Mexican and US police, not. If you cheapen life by escalation to lethal force your life becomes less secure as a consequence. History has borne this out time and time and time and time again. It's interesting to compare US and British TV - on British TV an arrest is not an anticlimax exactly, but rarely involves lethal force because that's how it is on the street.

    291. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only reason to draw a gun is to kill.

      well that's pretty bloodthirsty. as the poster above pointed out, there are other reasons and escalation of force is often a reasonable approach.

      as for "taking someone's life for no purpose," defending your home is actually a pretty great purpose.

    292. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Broken+scope · · Score: 1

      Didn't you watch Die Hard?

      --
      You mad
    293. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Broken+scope · · Score: 1

      There are people across the spectrum that believe in private firearm ownership, however the overwhelming majority are found on the right. I'd say 80 to 90% of gun owners are right leaning.

      --
      You mad
    294. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hunting isn't a right. It isn't necessary. Today, it is a hobby, a pastime... hunters hunt because they like stalking and killing things. Also, hunters don't need an arsenal to hunt. They don't need automatic or semi-automatic assault weopons to hunt. They don't need expanded ammunition clips to hunt. I'll grant you that most hunters are probably down to earth people... but using hunting as an excuse for owning weapons you're also defending the idiots that are using hunting as a shield and excuse to amass an unnecessary arsenal to placate what can only be understood and described as a compulsive mental illness. On the one hand, we should not demonize mental illness and blame gun deaths on the unfortunate circumstances of the sick, but we should also not allow the mentally ill to acquire guns and amass ridiculous arsenals. Personally, I feel there should be a law that prevents any private citizen from owning more weopons than they can carry... if you're strong enough to lift 500lbs., we'll let you own 500lbs. of guns. Anything over what you can physically carry, you should be prosecuted.

    295. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      But only 4 times as likely to be murdered, period.

      Obviously, a lot of Brits have figured out that firearms aren't the only way to murder someone.

      Note, by the by, that there are four-six (depending on how you count "close") States with murder rates "close" to that of the UK. Only one of them is on the "more gun control" side of the debate, and one of them has NO gun control laws of any sort (though Federal Laws still apply).

      Note also that murder rates in the USA have been declining for decades, in spite of the number of firearms increasing for decades....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    296. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      I think you mean Die Hard 2.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    297. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by gsslay · · Score: 1

      You like having armed criminals come into your house and rob you? Then live in an armed area. Prefer they don't have to fear getting shot, and so don't arm themselves as nervy trigger happy maniacs? Then live in a disarmed area.

      You seem to advocate the former where it becomes a escalation of who has the better armoury. I hope you don't have a family.

    298. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by gsslay · · Score: 1

      it's going to be used a couple times and that's it

      I'm sure that will come as a great comfort to those at the business end of those couple of times.

    299. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, that's sort of my point. It is also a weapon in Far Cry. It was in response to the idea that fat-ass "militia" members armed with AR16's would be fighting the military.

      When criticism of armed citizens fighting for their rights is countered by someone who thinks that video games are "real", then that criticism is probably Not Scottish.

    300. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't kid yourself. The government is not "unable to restrict" anything.

    301. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      Still, they'd have an awfully difficult time restricting charcoal, raw iron, or diesel oil. Moreover, owning a gun-producing factory is perfectly legal but prohibitively expensive. They restrict stuff to make things they want restricted prohibitively difficult to obtain (be it due to price, availablity, or legal requirements). We proceed into territory of more ubiquitous, common, necessary in day-to-day- life. The point where these meet is what is legal and obtainable - push it one way oranother and the reach changes. It's a moving frontline, banning more is just as hard as getting into more generic territory with manufacture.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    302. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by KingBenny · · Score: 1

      in the broader picture, whatever attracts mainstream use to a technology like this will bring us closer to the star trek dispenser somehow (i'm not a real trekkie since i don't believe in -isms but i can acknowledge its merits and have spent many a merry moment with james t. kirk and ole leanord where no one ever went before) so i forgot its name which is probably sacrilege in nerd-land but shouldnt be in geek land afaik ...
      the point being
      even if its about printing guns as effectively as possible and hardly rocket science this is just what's needed in my twistedd andd most of the time somewhat less humble opinion. It advances, it attracts, more energy gets directed at it, the pool grows larger, more people get more access to it and they get more control over it, in the end freedom should benefit from it (no i'm not high but i'd like to be right now)

      --
      Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
    303. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by Phoghat · · Score: 1

      a militia armed with three-shot rifles which might explode at any moment wouldn't get very far.

      A militia armed with AR 16s and AK 47s with 50 round drums wouldn't get very far against a government equipped with stealth bombers, UAV drones, tanks, etc.

      --
      Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    304. Re:Barrel and slide/bolt too? by IRWolfie- · · Score: 1

      Only 4 times as likely to be murdered and that is somehow hailed as a good thing.

  2. Going to be a bit longer by ackthpt · · Score: 2

    To 3D print the cartridges.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Going to be a bit longer by waddgodd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      that's why you use caseless ;P

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
    2. Re:Going to be a bit longer by WWJohnBrowningDo · · Score: 1

      Cartridge != case

      Cartridge = bullet + case + propellent + primer

      A caseless cartridge still needs bullet, propellent, and primer, none of which is presently 3D printable.

    3. Re:Going to be a bit longer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullet: powdered sintered metal
      Propellant: easily printable powder combined with a binder
      Primer: ditto

      Not nearly the most efficient manufacturing method of course, but it could be pulled off with the various additive manufacturing methods out there today.

    4. Re:Going to be a bit longer by Kreigaffe · · Score: 1

      POWDERED SINTERED METAL?

      First of all, no, that'd shatter and fall apart when it hit something.

      Second of all, is it REALLY that hard to melt lead and pour it into a round mould?

      No, no it's not, it's lightyears more simple to do than 3D print a vastly inferior final product. Do you even know why lead is used for bullets? It's dense. Lots of energy, little volume. How dense is powdered sintered metal? Not very? It's a shitty projectile.

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    5. Re:Going to be a bit longer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention that gunpowder works a lot better when it is compressed too - more energy in the same space.

    6. Re:Going to be a bit longer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lead is used because it's cheap.

    7. Re:Going to be a bit longer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "A caseless cartridge still needs bullet, propellent, and primer, none of which is presently 3D printable."

      Bullets can be casted from lead. Quite easy.
      Propellants and primer is the next hurdle.

    8. Re:Going to be a bit longer by Kreigaffe · · Score: 1

      .... no. you are wrong. jesus, you don't even have to be a gun guy to figure this out.

      you're transferring chemical energy into kinetic energy. a more dense object will lose less energy en route than a less dense object, because if you assume the same mass, the less dense object will have a greater surface area / frontal area, causing much more drag.

      lead is also useful thanks to its terminal performance, that is, it deforms so that more of that kinetic energy is delivered to the target, rather than being conserved as the projectile travels through the target. Terminal performance is less about poking holes in things and more about delivering considerable destructive energy to specific areas.

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    9. Re:Going to be a bit longer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you never heard of frangible bullets? That's kind of the point, soft targets only.

    10. Re:Going to be a bit longer by waddgodd · · Score: 1

      You know, I was mostly joking, but jebus christ almighty, did you have to get so....stupid? Yes, you can 3D print solid titanium, via the EBM process, and encase this in a polycarbonate sabot to provide the lands. Primers, we doan need no steenken primers, that's why they made electricity, and the caseless propellant can be made with inkjet/glue powderbed (fun fact: most larger caliber GUNS [using the naval usage of gun, meaning "stuff you can't put to your shoulder and fire"] already use a sort-of caseless system now, as in the powder is actually depositied in slurry in the case and dried to a semisolid, which, in a weird way, could be described as "all at once powderbed")

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
    11. Re:Going to be a bit longer by Kreigaffe · · Score: 1

      Titanium is hardly dense. It doesn't make a good projectile. Poor terminal performance. It isn't used, and that's for a reason. Steel, copper, lead, small bits of tin or zinc, if you wanna get fancy there's bismuth and tungsten, and heck, uranium.. and that's about it.

      Making a caseless propellant is a great deal more complicated than just dumping powder into a case. There have, actually, been a few forays into the consumer market for caseless propellants. They haven't done tremendously well. Not bad, but needlessly complicated.

      And yeah, the REALLY big guns on ships actually don't use cases at all. Just a big ol' projectile and a few bags of boomboom. There's a difference of scale, and that difference actually does mean one thing can be better in one instance and the other in another.

      So, yeah, you can go ahead with all that mess.. I'm not saying it can't be a fun hobby. But.. usefulness? Completely nonexistent.

      These things are the wall-hanger fantasy swords of the gun world. Kinda neat, but utterly useless and outclassed by scrap you can just pull out of your basement, right now.

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
  3. I could not think of an XKCD so have this intsted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They would make perfect assassins weapons,

    but information wants to be free!!!

    http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1500/fc01440.htm

  4. So when can we... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    get a 3D printed silencer to go with it?

    1. Re:So when can we... by ackthpt · · Score: 2

      get a 3D printed silencer to go with it?

      I'm waiting for 3D-printed House Representatives. One more dimension than the present models.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:So when can we... by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 2

      I had no idea 3D printers were that loud.

      --
      http://www.rootstrikers.org/
    3. Re:So when can we... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You Sir are evil.
      Government will surely ban 3D printers without software that denies to print out all Politicians.

  5. Winner! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    ...of this year's Darwin award.

    "It might blow up in your hand! But have fun!"

    1. Re:Winner! by TrollstonButtersbean · · Score: 1
      Why do 3/4 of the 3D printing articles here focus on guns? Guns are nice and all ...

      But is this really the only use for a 3D printer?

      Please no more eiffel tower pics either. k thx bye ...

    2. Re:Winner! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      It's because it's a flamebait topic that's more likely to get more views and angry comments (and therefore views).

    3. Re:Winner! by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      Why do 3/4 of the 3D printing articles here focus on guns? Guns are nice and all ...

      But is this really the only use for a 3D printer?

      Please no more eiffel tower pics either. k thx bye ...

      the most present use I've had for mine has been printing ass vases and some joining pieces for decorative furniture.

      but the reason why there's so many 3d printed gun articles about this one guy is two fold, first the media "journalists" don't know shit about history(about how people used to fuel a resistance with bike shop built guns and gangs used to use home built zip guns in fifties) and who think that their readers are different than the readers of the 423432 other news sources.. so they think a cool tech + scandalous use makes for a good story, and cody is just happy to throw fuel to that fire(last I checked he operated on donations).

      there's probably some catch to this design too. an all abs+ printed (minus firing pin) gun sounds just too stupid to be true, why not use pipe as a barrel? why not at least enforce the receiver portion with metal?

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    4. Re:Winner! by TrollstonButtersbean · · Score: 1

      Ah ... classic rules of media 101. I suppose eyeballs count for something --- err actually everything --- in an advertising supported site. Lesson learned, mystery solved.

    5. Re:Winner! by TrollstonButtersbean · · Score: 1

      first the media "journalists" don't know shit about history(about how people used to fuel a resistance with bike shop built guns and gangs used to use home built zip guns in fifties) and who think that their readers are different than the readers of the 423432 other news sources..

      Yes, "journalists" don't know anything about history, but history is constantly circling the drain. Everyone must perpetually remind each other of small pieces of history to keep the working body of knowledge alive. Case in point, I wasn't aware of what you posted --- how could I be? Too much history. But what negates this an open and receptive mind. Often "journalists" are pea-pod people --- surrounded by like-minded undiverse opinions.

    6. Re:Winner! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      You must be new here...

    7. Re:Winner! by Stuarticus · · Score: 2

      Because a significant portion of the would be "nerds" suffer from small penis syndrome and feel the need to rant on about their guns? Mod me flamebait all you want, just stick to Linux and talk less about how essential "protecting yourself" is. (Not you personally Trollston).

      --
      If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
    8. Re:Winner! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is 100% true. Personally I am hung to the point that my wife wishes I was a little bit smaller. I have never owned a gun and never will.

      The preceding anecdote is 100% true. As a true to life anecdote, it is EQUALLY AS VALID as every other dumbass pro 2nd amendment anecdote out there.

      That's right. You heard it here first. Anecdotal evidence is meaningless.

  6. this didn't go as expect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    someone better print band-aids, because this don't go down well.

  7. Supply and demand. by femtobyte · · Score: 0

    This is one of those instances where right-wingers suddenly stop believing in the market economics they dogmatically apply everywhere else. Supply and demand: make killing people cheaper, easier, and more available, and more people get killed. It's hilarious to watch gun murder apologists fly into fits of hand-waving about why lowering the cost of killing will magically decrease the amount of killing.

    1. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly! We should increase the cost of killing by upgrading from a life sentence to the death penalty!

      Or was that not what you meant?

    2. Re:Supply and demand. by zbobet2012 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Increasing supply does not necessarily increase demand. It depends whether the good has a fixed demand (is price inelastic). Murder is mostly price inelastic just like gasoline. When gasoline gets more expensive only a small amount less is used.

    3. Re:Supply and demand. by femtobyte · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except I don't think murder is as price-inelastic as you think. Only a small fraction of gun murders in the US are in, e.g., carefully planned heists by criminal masterminds who will acquire guns regardless of cost for a pre-planned murder. Gun deaths overwhelmingly come from heat-of-the-moment domestic disputes, drug-addled petty criminals, super-depressed suicide victims, etc.: folks not utilizing near-unlimited resources and careful long-term planning skills. If a (cheap, ubiquitously available) gun is on hand at the minute of bad decision making, it gets used; otherwise not.

    4. Re:Supply and demand. by femtobyte · · Score: 1

      The death penalty is typically an externality not factored into the cost of killing. Few murderers think ahead so much; or, if they do, feel certain they won't get caught (so severity of punishment, life imprisonment or death penalty, doesn't matter when mentally multiplied by a 0% estimate of getting caught). Whether they can get a gun or a bunch of booze for $20 *right now* does factor into the economic choices they make (and if the gun is $500, the booze probably wins). Now, when you increase the chances of getting caught (by increasing resources for investigation/enforcement), this has been shown to impact crime rates: increase the number of friends-of-friends that people hear about getting locked away for life, and folks' subconscious economic calculations start factoring in "I might get caught" with significantly higher weight.

    5. Re:Supply and demand. by Robotbeat · · Score: 2, Informative

      ...Murder is mostly price inelastic just like gasoline. When gasoline gets more expensive only a small amount less is used.

      Like hell it's inelastic. You may wish to /believe/ it's inelastic, and "everyone" you like and talk to at bars and hang out with may repeat this back to you as if it's irrefutable fact, but I guarantee you that having a conveniently lethal murder instrument helps quite a bit. We have a very high murder rate in this country, basically the highest of the developed world. Guess what country also has the most guns per capita, by a wide margin? Correlation may not imply causation, but correlation does hint pretty strongly that there's a connection.

      And we know that guns are even more commonly used for suicide; suicide is NOT inelastic to supply of convenient suicide methods, and we know this because the suicide rate in England went down dramatically when they got rid of town gas (i.e. partially burned coal containing high levels of carbon monoxide used as fuel in ovens and such, a very convenient suicide method). Having such an enormous glut of legal guns in our country also means the black market also becomes flooded with guns.

      Yes, there are some people who are hell-bent on killing and will attempt some way to do it, but a heck of a lot of people kill others in the heat of the moment or at least would be far less effective at it if they didn't have such an efficient killing instrument handy. It doesn't take a ton of foresight or coordination with others to shoot and kill a bunch of people with a gun. To do the same with another weapon, like a bomb, is actually a heck of a lot harder, as Boston vs Newtown shows. Or the recent Chicago five-fatality shooting spree (that sort of thing is pretty common... fatal shootings occur multiple times a week in Chicago).

    6. Re:Supply and demand. by zbobet2012 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      In crimes of passion almost any weapon will do. A gun being present generally only changes the cause of death. This is evidenced by the fact that in Britain and Australia gun bans have had no effect on either suicide or homicide rates when isolated against already prevailing national crime rates and trends. You are also incorrect about the nature of homicide in the US. 70-85% of those murdered the US every year have a criminal record. Most major cities track close to 80% of there homicides resulting from gang violence.
      I should be clear, I am not a "gun rights" advocate, but from an economics perspective it is rather obvious that murder is price inelastic. The vast majority of murders are infact crime related. The remander are largely crimes of passion for which any serviceable weapon can and will do (suicide falls under this as well).

    7. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't think price is what keeps people from owning guns. It's rather that they are risk-averse to accidents, or maybe just think they're icky, or don't want legal problems from an unregistered gun. Cheaper and more available won't change most of this. You can already buy a crappy pistol for under $200. This is not a huge problem even for the relatively poor.

      Also, 3d-printing is not a replicator. You still have quite a bit of work assembling it (and buying ammo), which is probably hard to do if you're in a homicidal rage.

      Suicides would probably increase, since they are 1) planned, 2) planned mostly by people who are depressed enough to be put off by substantial challenges. I would guess homicides wouldn't increase much.

    8. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The death penalty is typically an externality not factored into the cost of killing. Few murderers think ahead so much; or, if they do, feel certain they won't get caught (so severity of punishment, life imprisonment or death penalty, doesn't matter when mentally multiplied by a 0% estimate of getting caught). Whether they can get a gun or a bunch of booze for $20 *right now* does factor into the economic choices they make (and if the gun is $500, the booze probably wins).

      So as long as we can 3D print booze as well as guns, we'll be all right. ~
       

      Now, when you increase the chances of getting caught (by increasing resources for investigation/enforcement), this has been shown to impact crime rates: increase the number of friends-of-friends that people hear about getting locked away for life, and folks' subconscious economic calculations start factoring in "I might get caught" with significantly higher weight.

      You just said they don't think ahead, or feel certain the chance is zero. (They're also pretty sure they're an above-average driver.) But if we lock up a few more of their buddies, they suddenly will think ahead? Or will no longer think they're the exception? Right...

      I'm not saying either argument is wrong, but at least one is clearly an oversimplification.

      But even so, a little more enforcement, and add the tougher (and cheaper for the state) penalty to be multiplied by the suddenly-non-zero probability, and it increases the deterrence. (I'm devil's-advocating a little here, as I'm not convinced it's worth it in terms of the occasional wrong conviction*. Just because an action reduces crime doesn't mean it's necessarily just or beneficial to society overall.)

      * although if you look at how damned hard it is to get a provably wrong conviction overturned on new evidence even when the convict is still alive, it's not so much different after all.

    9. Re:Supply and demand. by femtobyte · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In crimes of passion almost any weapon will do.

      Any weapon will inflict injury. Guns make it especially easy to rapidly inflict death (point and click!), even for people who would not be mentally prepared to keep hacking away with a knife once the blood starts spurting, or would be restrained by others around.

      70-85% of those murdered the US every year have a criminal record. Most major cities track close to 80% of there homicides resulting from gang violence.

      And the availability of guns makes murder easier and more efficient, even in gang violence situations. It's a lot harder to kill someone with a baseball bat than a gun --- no quick drive-by pot-shots at kids wearing the wrong colors, you've got to stay around and pummel until the target's buddies show up with their own weapons.

    10. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well, if murderers don't think ahead much, then a 3d printed gun will definitely not be an issue.

      Do you have any idea how long it takes to get a 3d printer to make /anything/ work.

    11. Re:Supply and demand. by zbobet2012 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Except banning guns in two cultures very similar to ours has had no effect on either of those from an empirical perspective. You are basically plato reasoning about the five elements right now. No matter how well you construct your thought process the empirical, statistical evidence disagrees with your result. I have linked you to the associated articles on the effects of the gun ban in Australia, please take the time to read them.

    12. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Firearm forensics links bullets to barrels and shells to bolt faces and extractors. Mitigating the forensics threat requires destroying and replacing parts of your firearm (and leaving evidence in the form of orders and deliveries) which is normally very expensive. A properly cheap and above all DISPOSABLE weapon means that you can do your nefarious deeds for pennies on the dollar and get away with them like a real pro. It also makes successful organized crime much more accessible to the novice.

      This 3D printed gun shit is a time-bomb if you ask me. If the War on Drugs is still happening when the project is ready, we will all end up like swiss fucking cheese.

    13. Re:Supply and demand. by CodeBuster · · Score: 2

      You'll recall, or perhaps not, from your economics course that price is function of both supply and demand. The supply curve can shift right independent of the demand curve which implies a decreased price at every point along the supply curve, as when the price of inputs decreases or the productivity of their outputs increases, without necessarily increasing the "demand for murder", as you chose to put it. Ask yourself, who commits most of the violent gun crimes in America? Is it the law abiding rural gun owners with their cabinets full of rifles, shotguns and handguns or is it the poor urban criminals who are holding up liquor stores and robbing their fellow citizens with "born to lose" tattoos scrawled across their chests? If you believe that increasing the price of guns will reduce violent gun crimes then let's go ahead and try that. If a few less poor urban dwellers end up armed with cheap Saturday night specials, I won't complain. After all, they're the ones committing the crimes.

    14. Re:Supply and demand. by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      drug-addled petty criminals

      I really, really, really want to see stats on how many gun murders are associated with drugs. I expect that upward of 95% are. If we would just end the war on drugs, we'd stop nearly half of all gun deaths. The other half being suicide.

      But the "right" doesn't want to admit the war on drugs is killing people (and they don't really care since most of them are poor with no one to speak for them) and the "left" doesn't want to admit that ending the war on drugs would substantially reduce gun violence because that would weaken any argument for outlawing guns on their own merits.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    15. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...Murder is mostly price inelastic just like gasoline. When gasoline gets more expensive only a small amount less is used.

      Like hell it's inelastic. You may wish to /believe/ it's inelastic, and "everyone" you like and talk to at bars and hang out with may repeat this back to you as if it's irrefutable fact, but I guarantee you that having a conveniently lethal murder instrument helps quite a bit. We have a very high murder rate in this country, basically the highest of the developed world. Guess what country also has the most guns per capita, by a wide margin? Correlation may not imply causation, but correlation does hint pretty strongly that there's a connection.

      America also has a fucking huge problem with racial, economic, and cultural segregation, and oh, look, a couple of the minorities (blacks and mexicans) account for an overwhelming majority of the murders (both murderers and victims -- no, not the titillating-but-ridiculously-rare mass shootings that make the national news, but the daily death toll in the poor parts of town that's so routine it's not news even locally), but let's not get distracted by the fact that we botched Reconstruction and A CENTURY AND A HALF LATER not only can't be bothered to even try to set things right, but we've compounded it with a racially-motivated war on certain recreational drugs. No, it's definitely all about those guns.

      Yes, more guns definitely does mean more attempts will succeed. But it's not like the other countries are having the same number of beatings we have murders, but fewer fatalities because it's cricket bats, not guns. By far the biggest portion of the problem is the socioeconomic divide and the self-perpetuating culture of violence on one side of it -- but nobody wants to work on that.

    16. Re:Supply and demand. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 0

      Like hell it's inelastic. You may wish to /believe/ it's inelastic, and "everyone" you like and talk to at bars and hang out with may repeat this back to you as if it's irrefutable fact, but I guarantee you that having a conveniently lethal murder instrument helps quite a bit. We have a very high murder rate in this country, basically the highest of the developed world. Guess what country also has the most guns per capita, by a wide margin? Correlation may not imply causation, but correlation does hint pretty strongly that there's a connection.

      Correlation only hints pretty strongly at a connection when you have the two factors isolated. Given that USA is an outlier on many other factors, it is very much unclear which of them contribute to murder rate. It could be very high income inequality resulting in widespread poverty leading to crime, for example, and the lack of public healthcare playing into the same.

      On the other hand, we don't need to compare widely different countries and try to isolate the factors - we can instead just take the same country that has enacted gun legislation, and compare the before and the after. Australia is one prominent example, UK is another. In neither case there was any noticeable statistical correlation between more gun control and lower murder rates. The best you can find is a correlation between gun control and gun crimes, but this is pretty meaningless statistics as it selectively ignores all other categories for no particular reason - and if you look at the whole picture, it doesn't actually change except for the tools/method used.

    17. Re:Supply and demand. by polar+red · · Score: 1

      ZERO massacres since 1996.

      --
      Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
    18. Re:Supply and demand. by Dorianny · · Score: 2

      And we know that guns are even more commonly used for suicide; suicide is NOT inelastic to supply of convenient suicide methods, and we know this because the suicide rate in England went down dramatically when they got rid of town gas (i.e. partially burned coal containing high levels of carbon monoxide used as fuel in ovens and such, a very convenient suicide method).

      Prevent suicides by making it unaffordable for people to conveniently kill themselves. Now that is a real winner for society. We can take solace in our belief that we have done all that we can to prevent suicides and we can avoid all those unconformable discussions about the role that mental illness and social injustice play in people that act against their most basic instinct.

    19. Re:Supply and demand. by zbobet2012 · · Score: 1

      Subsequently, a study by McPhedran and Baker compared the incidence of mass shootings in Australian and New Zealand. Data were standardised to a rate per 100,000 people, to control for differences in population size between the countries and mass shootings before and after 1996/1997 were compared between countries. That study found that in the period 1980–1996, both countries experienced mass shootings. The rate did not differ significantly between countries. However since 1996/1997, neither country has experienced a mass shooting event despite the continued availability of semi-automatic longarms in New Zealand. The authors conclude that “the hypothesis that Australia’s prohibition of certain types of firearms explains the absence of mass shootings in that country since 1996 does not appear to be supported if civilian access to certain types of firearms explained the occurrence of mass shootings in Australia (and conversely, if prohibiting such firearms explains the absence of mass shootings), then New Zealand (a country that still allows the ownership of such firearms) would have continued to experience mass shooting events.”

    20. Re:Supply and demand. by Loki_1929 · · Score: 1

      I don't think the argument has ever been that less people will die if more responsible citizens have guns. Rather, I think the argument is that there will be less defenseless victims for the uncontrolled criminal savages to prey upon.

      Firearms can be an equalizer which enable ordinary people to defend themselves from thieves, thugs, and tyrants alike.

      --
      -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
    21. Re:Supply and demand. by Loki_1929 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I initially thought you were talking about gun shows when you said "ZERO massacres". Then I saw that you'd qualified that with a year, so you weren't talking about gun shows.

      Funny how in all those gun shows full of guns and people who love guns, there's never a mass shooting. It's almost as though it's not possible for an individual to successfully massacre large groups of heavily armed individuals.

      --
      -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
    22. Re:Supply and demand. by Robotbeat · · Score: 0

      Right, so where's the part where I said we should ignore mental illness, etc? Also, where's the part where I claimed my post was primarily concerning what to do about suicides? I suppose I also didn't say killing puppies is wrong, so obviously I think we should kill puppies... ;)

    23. Re:Supply and demand. by number11 · · Score: 2

      In crimes of passion almost any weapon will do. A gun being present generally only changes the cause of death.

      If the party doesn't have access to a gun, there may well be no "crime of passion". It's really a lot harder to kill someone with a baseball bat than it is to squeeze a trigger. You may well stop at some point short of completion and say, "shit, I didn't mean to do that".

      This is evidenced by the fact that in Britain and Australia gun bans have had no effect on either suicide or homicide rates when isolated against already prevailing national crime rates and trends.

      From that article, "cut firearm suicides by 74%... no evidence of substitution of method of suicide in any state. The estimated effect on firearm homicides was of similar magnitude but less precise". Other studies found no effect or were inconclusive. So I don't think you can say it is "evidenced".

      You are also incorrect about the nature of homicide in the US. 70-85% of those murdered the US every year have a criminal record. Most major cities track close to 80% of there homicides resulting from gang violence.

      How about "deaths by firearm"? What percentage of those have criminal records? Indeed, note that the accused perp of the Boston Marathon killings had no criminal record. But if it is true, it blows a hole in the argument that people need guns to protect themselves. At least, if they're not in gangs.

      I should be clear, I am not a "gun rights" advocate, but from an economics perspective it is rather obvious that murder is price inelastic. The vast majority of murders are infact crime related. The remander are largely crimes of passion for which any serviceable weapon can and will do (suicide falls under this as well).

      I'm trying to think of some category of murder that's not "crime-related", including crimes of passion. Nope, I'm drawing a blank, unless you're only talking about suicide (which I don't count as murder)..

    24. Re:Supply and demand. by Robotbeat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hardly a valid criticism of my post.

      You know, I can't solve all the problems in the world in a single post. Of course socioeconomic factors are huge, but it's possible to, you know, look at an issue and try to evaluate it critically without throwing up one's hands and saying, "welp, since this is only part of the problem, it's obviously not worth anyone's time..."

      ANY single factor you try to adjust or optimize will be incremental. It takes a bunch of things working together to solve this problem of murder in this country. You're not helping any by criticizing a valid observation just because it isn't all-encompassing.

    25. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correlation hints pretty strongly that you should be looking for a connection most of the time. The less isolated the factors are, the greater the chance it's a false positive, but that doesn't mean you can just stick your head in the sand and say "la la la, USA is an outlier, no point looking for a connection here".

    26. Re:Supply and demand. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The problem with outliers is that you can't make any conclusive evidence based on a single data point, especially when it's so out of the line. So, yes, you look for connection - by looking at other data sets where the link between the factors you are interested should show up if it exists. That's why I pointed at UK and Australia for my evidence. The fact that no connection can be seen there seems to indicate that either those factors aren't really related (and therefore you should look at other differences for an explanation), or else there is some third factor that masks the difference. But in the absence of evidence for the latter, the simpler explanation should be preferred.

    27. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's only telling half the story. In New Zealand, one has to have a gun license before one can get it gun. This is quite a tedious process, and involves making sure the person is psychologically stable, wants the gun for what they say they want it for, and that they have a safe place to keep it in.

      Buying a gun to kill someone with would take a very long time, a lot of effort, and then the chances of getting caught are very high.

      The study is biased, and is missing out the fact that NZ has very strict regulation, which has almost certainly had an effect.

    28. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, total no. deaths by gun per 100,000 in NZ has increased since 1996.

    29. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're lowering the cost in economic terms yes

      on the other hadn you're increasing the risk of starting violence probably a millionfold, cause now everyone will be able to affort the metaphorical teeth to fight back.

      consequently you'll likely see a lot lower death rate (contrary to western-movie-based opinions, the old west was in actuality way more peacefull then present day america)

    30. Re:Supply and demand. by Winchy · · Score: 1

      Yes, all true. Perhaps though the US has a different set of social issues, or maybe the same set of social issues as the UK but with increased intensity (e.g. US gang organisation and violence is in a different league to the UK's, social inequality is greater etc.) So removing guns from the UK doesn't make much difference to the murder rate but in the US, due to the more heated social problems, removing guns would make a difference?

    31. Re:Supply and demand. by Stuarticus · · Score: 1

      Others have argued that alternative methods of suicide have been substituted.

      And when you click the reference link it's dead?? Wow, that's some pretty great evidence there.

      --
      If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
    32. Re:Supply and demand. by Stuarticus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Funny how there's never a massacre at a balloon factory as well, as though balloons somehow deter people from mass shootings. However I do seem to remember someone shooting themselves at a gun show recently, I assume from this that gun shows attract stupid people. More conclusions at 11.

      --
      If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
    33. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In crimes of passion almost any weapon will do.

      How many knife-wielding psychopaths can take out 10-40 people when they're on a rampage? The point you're making is worthless and absurd. A gun is far deadlier than nearly any other weapon, next to explosives. The fact that someone can be killed by some other deadly weapon does not negate the fact that nearly all gun deaths are unnecessary and avoidable, if only gun lovers would accept legal and Constitutional regulation, guns finding their way into the hands of those that cannot handle the responsibility could be curbed. In my opinion, it is criminal for this minority of citizens that are gun lovers to overrule the majority's declaration that gun regulation is law. You want to own a gun? Fine. But abide by the law and stop being spoiled little children.

    34. Re:Supply and demand. by Stuarticus · · Score: 1

      If you count alcohol as a drug and accept that from then on that 95% are "drug addled" quite a lot of the time, then yes.

      --
      If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
    35. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Knives, hammer and clubs make it especially easy to rapidly inflict death too, I don't hear anyone screaming to ban those too. Prescription medication, when used as prescribed, kills more people than firearms, better ban that too.

    36. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can take your foot and firmly insert it into your mouth.

      http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monash_University_shooting

      That's just off the top of my head.

    37. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look ma, no guns!

      Better ban fire now.

      http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childers_Palace_Fire

    38. Re:Supply and demand. by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Obvious left-wing nutjob that doesn't understand economics ranting about others not believing in it.

      You mention supply and demand. Yes, market theory says that if the demand for murder goes up, then the cost will increase and then the number of people willing to do it for higher will increase (that is the supply) then the cost will come back down and equilibrium will be reached. If the demand then goes back down, then so will the price and then fewer people will decide it is worth doing.

      Your example makes the claim that more houses will be built just because Stanley makes more hammers and more people buy them.

      To address your other stupid comment... Could you enlighten us as to how murder by something other than a gun is acceptable? Could you also name one single person who claims that using a gun to commit murder is acceptable other than those who have committed murder with them?

    39. Re:Supply and demand. by Shadow99_1 · · Score: 1

      Maybe it's just me, but as someone without a 3D printer I somehow doubt that a almost completely plastic 3D printed gun is cheaper than say a $50 handgun from the pawnshop...

      --
      we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
    40. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You are incorrect about Australia's statistics. The result of the gun ban is disputed, but it's generally accepted that the ban led to a large decrease in suicides, and a smaller but still statistically significant decrease in homicides. We also haven't had a single spree shooting since the 1996 National Agreement on Firearms, whereas we had 13 spree shootings (four fatalities or more) in the 18 years before the ban.

      As for gang violence, gang violence accounted for 1% of all homicides in 1980 and 6% of all homicides in 2008.

    41. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
    42. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are missing an important point here. Gun bans do not affect the availability of guns to criminals, only the law-abiding. Russia, Mexico, Brazil, South Africa, Venezuela all have total civilian gun bans yet they also have the highest crime and murder rates in the world. Meanwhile if you look at the US on a state-by-state basis, North Dakota, Alaska and Montana have the highest gun ownership rates yet they have the lowest crime and murder rates. The simple fact is the vast majority of gun crime is caused by organized crime.

    43. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The remander are largely crimes of passion for which any serviceable weapon can and will do (suicide falls under this as well).

      I don't have a handy source for crimes of passion in general, but your claim with regards to suicide is definitely false. From a study of 48,000 attempted and successful suicides, firearms are by far the most lethal suicide method: successful 2.6 times more frequently than suffocation, which is the second-most lethal method. Do you have reason to believe that other crimes of passion are any different?

    44. Re:Supply and demand. by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      Except most gun shot wounds aren't to the heat where death is almost certain. Most are center of mass where there is a good chance of surviving. One of my friends is a trauma nurse at a major hospital here and mentioned that the worst injuries she has ever seen are blunt force impact injuries from hammers, mauls, clubs, pipes, etc. The do a lot of tissue damage, lots of internal bleeding, broken bones and if it was a claw hammer (very common) possibly puncture wounds on top of it. Next up are knife wounds as they can be very deep and puncture or slice multiple organs and bleed a lot. Finally there are gun shot wounds, which affect a small area and are comparatively easy to clean up as there is rarely much damage outside of the wound channel which is a small hole. Now granted most gun shot wounds are from hand guns, most being .22lr, and not from something like a intermediate or high powered rifle, shotgun (slugs, flechettes, or buckshot) or even large frame handgun which would be much more devastating and a real bitch to clean up.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    45. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny how I've never seen "Loki_1929" mentioned in a police blotter as stopping a crime in progress with a gun. It's almost as though he's a useless blowhard who just talks out of his ass about how necessary guns are to a free society.

      Yep, you can make any two things look like they are correlated when there is a lack of evidence.

    46. Re:Supply and demand. by tmosley · · Score: 1

      You do realize that Chicago is disarmed right?

      Disarmament doesn't work. It only increases crime rates.

      There's lots of people with guns in police stations. Why no shootings there? Oh, police are "special", I guess. Ok, well what about all these evil, gun toting assholes that want to keep their guns? Those guys gather at gun ranges. How often do you have shootings at gun ranges?

      But hey, that's reality. Don't let actual facts get in the way of your feelings about evil, evil people that are subhuman and different from you.

    47. Re:Supply and demand. by tmosley · · Score: 1

      No-one is talking about mental illness, despite the clear mental instability of these shooters, especially the Sandy Hook shooter. No, all they want to do is ban guns.

      If stomping or not stomping on puppies could prevent this sort of thing, then it should be talked about. But it isn't, in the case of mental illness. Why? Because they want to GET THOSE GUNS, no matter what the excuse.

    48. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only a small fraction of gun murders in the US are heat-of-the-moment domestic disputes. 80% of gun homicides are gang-related. According to the Center for Disease Control (CDC), gang homicides accounted for roughly 8,900 of 11,100 gun murders in both 2010 and 2011. Studies and interviews have shown they place a high priority on obtaining a gun, whether or not they plan to ever use it.

      As far as suicides go: studies have shown suicide rates tend to stay static, regardless of the means available. Simply put: if someone wants to kill themselves but can't find a gun, then they will find a knife. Or a bridge to jump off of. Or a train to jump in front of. Or some pills to swallow. Or they get clever, hop onto google, and learn about the helium trick...

    49. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Childers Palace Fire - In June 2000, drifter and con-artist Robert Long started a fire at the Childers Palace backpackers hostel that killed 15 people.
      Monash University shooting - In October 2002, Huan Yun Xiang, a student, shot his classmates and teacher, killing two and injuring five.

    50. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A friend of mine killed himself a couple of years ago. He had a number of handguns, but he hung himself. People will find a way to kill themselves, guns or no.

    51. Re:Supply and demand. by rohan972 · · Score: 1

      ZERO massacres since 1996.

      June 2000 - Childers Palace fire.

    52. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it blows a hole in the argument that people need guns to protect themselves. At least, if they're not in gangs.

      This right here says everything. "Guns are for defense" is as laughable as "bittorrent is for Linux". It's true occasionally, but by no means an honest assessment. The only difference is that downloading the wrong files can cost you more than shooting someone.

    53. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If correlation does hint pretty strongly that there's a connection, then what about the fact that crime (including murder) has been decreasing while gun ownership has increased and gun laws have loosened? What does that correlation hint at?

    54. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some studies and research have shown that suicide rates are not really affected by the availability of guns. If England is "proof" that less guns = less suicides, then somebody should tell Japan: while the Japanese gun suicide rate is one-fiftieth of America's, the overall suicide rate is nearly twice as high as America's.

    55. Re:Supply and demand. by jon3k · · Score: 1

      Naah, I don't think 3D printed guns will appreciably increase firearm deaths. It's so much easier to get a real gun.

    56. Re:Supply and demand. by stenvar · · Score: 1

      From that article, "cut firearm suicides by 74%... no evidence of substitution of method of suicide in any state.

      You're leaving out the "based on modeled statistical estimates" part, which means this isn't an actual reduction, it's a guess based on lots of assumptions. In addition, the argument that taking away someone's gun prevents them from committing suicide is a bad one. If I want to commit suicide, that is my right and you do not have a right to interfere with my choice.

    57. Re:Supply and demand. by stenvar · · Score: 1

      We have a very high murder rate in this country, basically the highest of the developed world. Guess what country also has the most guns per capita, by a wide margin? Correlation may not imply causation, but correlation does hint pretty strongly that there's a connection.

      One data point doesn't even mean there is a correlation; to show a statistical correlation, you need dozens of data points.

      In addition, it's clear that gun ownership is not the cause of high homicide rates in the US because gun ownership doesn't correlate with homicide rates when you look at different populations within the US.

      If you want to approach this problem rationally, you have to start with the realization that half of US homicides are committed by young African American males; if you bring those rates down to the rates of the general population, the US homicide rate wouldn't be all that unusual. Gun control isn't going to accomplish that.

    58. Re:Supply and demand. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      So removing guns from the UK doesn't make much difference to the murder rate but in the US, due to the more heated social problems, removing guns would make a difference?

      There doesn't seem to be any evidence supporting that hypothesis within US, either. Comparing states is fraught with the same problems as comparing countries, but there are fewer differences, and you can try to pick reasonably similar states, so that you have more than one point - and doing so does not seem to show any correlation between guns and murders or crime in general. On the other hand, if you take a single state with a recent history of increase or decrease in gun control, again, stats don't show it to improve things in any way. IIRC, the only correlation that was found - and a weak one at that, so causative link is not well-established - is between concealed carry laws, and some categories of violent crime going down.

    59. Re:Supply and demand. by number11 · · Score: 1

      From that article, "cut firearm suicides by 74%... no evidence of substitution of method of suicide in any state.

      You're leaving out the "based on modeled statistical estimates" part, which means this isn't an actual reduction, it's a guess based on lots of assumptions.

      The point was, the wikipedia article you cited did not support your claim, it showed that the numbers in Australia (where the baseline measurement was rather low to begin with) are poorly understood.

      In addition, the argument that taking away someone's gun prevents them from committing suicide is a bad one. If I want to commit suicide, that is my right and you do not have a right to interfere with my choice.

      Wierd. Right after the word "state." in the part you quoted, it said that it reduced homicides similarly. Guess you missed that.

      FWIW, I agree with you on suicides. But it would be much safer for everyone around you if you could go to the pharmacy and purchase a cyanide cap, to be consumed only on the premises (so you didn't take it home to poison someone else). I'm thinking that, even if they had to provide a little annex for you to occupy and a free can of pop to wash it down, it would still be cheaper than a gun, and certainly less hazardous to those around you.

      I don't know whether reducing the accessibility of guns reduces murders, it's entirely possible that if you sit down and think "I'm determined to kill Bill, but how?" you'll find a way, even if it's not as easy as a gun. But I'm pretty sure that it reduces homicides. I'd expect that it would reduce unplanned, spur-of-the-moment, and accidental killings, killings by small children, etc. by a lot.

    60. Re:Supply and demand. by stenvar · · Score: 1

      The point was, the wikipedia article you cited did not support your claim, it showed that the numbers in Australia (where the baseline measurement was rather low to begin with) are poorly understood.

      It wasn't "my claim". I merely pointed out that you were misrepresenting and misquoting the Wikipedia article.

    61. Re:Supply and demand. by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      Subsequently, a study by McPhedran and Baker compared the incidence of mass shootings in Australian and New Zealand. Data were standardised to a rate per 100,000 people, to control for differences in population size between the countries and mass shootings before and after 1996/1997 were compared between countries. That study found that in the period 1980–1996, both countries experienced mass shootings. The rate did not differ significantly between countries. However since 1996/1997, neither country has experienced a mass shooting event despite the continued availability of semi-automatic longarms in New Zealand. The authors conclude that “the hypothesis that Australia’s prohibition of certain types of firearms explains the absence of mass shootings in that country since 1996 does not appear to be supported if civilian access to certain types of firearms explained the occurrence of mass shootings in Australia (and conversely, if prohibiting such firearms explains the absence of mass shootings), then New Zealand (a country that still allows the ownership of such firearms) would have continued to experience mass shooting events.”

      So, now we are only worried about "mass shootings" eh?

      Nicely moved goal posts there. GP was talking about how the numbers for your side fail in "crimes of passion" type murders, not "mass shootings".

      Care to address the issue at hand? Or are you just going to keep spreading lies....

    62. Re:Supply and demand. by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      This is not about supply and demand. It is about exercising Second Amendment rights without the government illegally preventing you from doing so.

      Yes, we can now start in discussing what is illegal for the government to do regarding guns, but it still comes down to being able to own a gun without getting permission from the government.

      And that can be done if you can *make* the gun yourself.

      Cost is not the issue. Supply, if you consider government regulation and denial to be a supply issue, fine.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    63. Re:Supply and demand. by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Prevent suicides by making it unaffordable for people to conveniently kill themselves.

      By drying up the supply of bridges and rope, or raising their price?

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    64. Re:Supply and demand. by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      That horse has already left the barn. Any organized crime group worth a darn is already in possession of the technology to print guns. That fight is already lost.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    65. Re:Supply and demand. by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 1

      but the gangs will get the guns anyway, hell they are a large part of the black market already.

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    66. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Australian and UK gun cultures were nothing like the US gun culture. There is no culture on earth that has a gun culture anything like the US one.

    67. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe there are only 4 Balloon Factories left and most have relocated to India and China.

    68. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is not about getting a gun that you can buy in the shop today.
      This about a distributed solution if all weapons are confiscated.
      Envisage a situation in a African country south of Sahara where the people have no arms.
      Armed crazy people are raping and pillaging. Inside a hut sits a mother and her 2 daughters.
      The door is kicked in. She aims her gun and shoots him.
      Undemocratic people do not want their soldiers to be shot.
      They will do their best to disarm the people if they wish to remain in power.
      The price of freedom - Constant alertness and willingness to fight back - There is no other price

    69. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People are going to shooting ranges, renting a gun & buying some ammo then blowing their own heads off (suicide).

      Half the gun deaths in the US are suicides - the only way to cut into those numbers is to severely curtail the second amendment... Wait, did I say curtail, I meant to say abridge...

    70. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, there are some people who are hell-bent on killing and will attempt some way to do it

      Like re-purpose a pressure cooker?

    71. Re:Supply and demand. by Loki_1929 · · Score: 1

      There a lot of guns and people who like guns and own guns at balloon factories?

      The point is that the presence of guns or people who like guns has no positive correlation (if anything, it has a negative correlation) with mass shootings. Hence, the reduction of available firearms in the hands of law-abiding citizens would likely have little to no positive impact on reducing mass shootings.

      But please do continue blabbering on about completely unrelated things in a futile attempt to make a non-existent point.

      --
      -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
    72. Re:Supply and demand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The domestic dispute is usually combined with a violent asshole who has already purchased a gun due to his own driving fear of, well... everyone. So, I wouldn't call it "heat of the moment" exactly. It still requires the premeditated weapon purchase.

  8. Re:then he's going to get sued to oblivion by Kawahee · · Score: 3, Informative

    ...unless he possesses a Type 7 FFL...

    One quick Google search later:

    On Saturday, Defense Distributed—America’s best-known group of 3D gunsmiths—announced on Facebook that its founder, Cody Wilson, is now a federally licensed gun manufacturer and dealer. The group published a picture of the Type 7 federal firearms license (FFL) to prove it.

    “The big thing it allows me to do is that it makes me [a manufacturer] under the law—everything that manufacturers are allowed to do,” he told Ars. “I can sell some of the pieces that we've been making. I can do firearms transactions and transport.”

    --
    I'll subscribe to Slashdot when I see a month without a dupe, a typo, or an article the "editors" didn't read.
  9. Re:then he's going to get sued to oblivion by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 4, Informative

    No, making guns for sale requires you have a license. Making guns for personal use only requires no licenses at all, as long as they fall under ATF guidelines for weapons that don't need to be registered with the ATF (no assault rifles or SBRs).

    --
    while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
  10. Heheh by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    Have fun finding ammo right now...

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:Heheh by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Finding ammo is easy. It's finding cheap ammo that can be problematic.

    2. Re:Heheh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LMFTFU:

      "It's FIRING cheap ammo that can be problematic."

  11. Profits by impbob · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm interested to see the reaction from the pro-gun groups and lobbies who are supported by major manufactures. Will they still be so keen for everyone to own a gun when those guns aren't being bought from their interest groups? Or will it become like the tobacco industry where only "approved manufacturers" (ie. the current ones) are allowed to design, manufacture and sell guns.

    1. Re:Profits by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      Gun industry already has many dozens of small companies that manufacture guns - for ARs alone there is more than a dozen of producers. I'm not aware of any deliberate lobbying efforts on the parts of major manufacturers to change that. But, arguably, if they wanted to do so, they already had an opportunity in form of AWB - seeing how most small fish dabble in precisely the types of guns that would be banned under that legislation, while the big guys (Remington, Winchester, Colt, Ruger, S&W etc) have half or more of their sales in form of more traditional hunting/sporting arms.

      Thing is, for all the talk about gun lobby, individual member donations are still the single biggest source of revenue for NRA, at almost 50% of total. And a great many of those members love them their ARs, and if, say, Colt tried to shut down Daniel Defense and NRA would back them in doing so, that would result in a lot of pissed-off people from precisely the kind of audience that otherwise tends to mail a fat check every time they get another letter asking for their "help in fighting off Obama". So, not particularly likely to happen.

    2. Re:Profits by ZeroPly · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Does GM feels threatened by people who build cars in their garage from kits?

      A 3D printed pistol is a great novelty item, but what are you really going to use it for? In a self defense situation, are you going to trust a weapon that's never been fired before? I ran about 300 rounds through my new Sig P226 before I was comfortable believing that I could hit what I was aiming at.

      --
      Support microSD: in a post 9/11 world, it is unwise to carry your data on media that you cannot comfortably swallow.
    3. Re:Profits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is more like the supplier of last resort if the Government resorts to confiscating weapons.
      Printing 3D guns is more like removing the possibility of Government buying gold from
      private citizens forcibly and handing over freshly printed money as token payment.. (Something for nothing)
      There are CNC files out there for those with access to computer controlled machinery.
      Just in case. Some parts are best made in metal. Now please excuse me - I will go on outfitting my Saiga 12 shotgun
      with adjustable stock, laser and a huge drum magazine and a flame hider that looks like an oversized muffler with large round holes in it. It will scare the BeeJesus out of most robbers - I think Joe Biden is absolutely right - All you need is a shotgun ( with slugs I might add :-)

    4. Re:Profits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are going to use it to assassinate people and hijack airplanes. That's the real tragedy. All the 2nd Amendment NAZIs are really doing is showing the next Osama bin laden how to bypass airport security. And once it's been done one time, then I have to look forward to a lifetime of a TSA guy shoving both fists up my ass everytime I fly.

      Thanks 2nd amendment douchebags. You had to spoil it for everyone else, didn't you?

    5. Re:Profits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The notion that the "gun lobby" is only supported by major gun manufacturers and therefore would be against protecting 2nd amendment rights if a method to produce guns at home is simply absurd. To a stupendously comical level. I can understand how you could come to that conclusion though, by simple transference. I mean that is how every liberal cause operates, by graft and corruption. Therefore it makes sense that if that is where your only experience lies, you would assume that's how the other side operates too.

  12. Teh hell by Hackysack · · Score: 1, Insightful

    How is this, in any sense of a safe, sane, rational world; a good thing?

    I love building, creating, discovering. The first thing that the ability to self-produce a meaningful firearm, should produce though is a limitation on the right to do so.

    No one needs the ability to exercise lethal force, much less the ability to casually produce the tools that do so.

    1. Re:Teh hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A better question is, why is the guy developing this? Whether or not he should be allowed to legally, I don't think I'd feel comfortable creating something like this and giving it to the world.

    2. Re:Teh hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

              Wow. You think you live in a safe, sane, rational world? The mind boggles.

    3. Re:Teh hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      He's a crypto-anarchist and honestly believes that doing this showcases what a joke popular conceptions of "gun control" are. You can watch a documentary by Motherboard about him and this issue on YouTube, search: 3D Printed Guns (Documentary)

      In a world where 3D printers will conceivably be a commonplace household item, gun control via the old practices simply will not work.

      It also draws attention to the limitations of how freely information is distributed and exchanged across the 'net.

      While I agree this is a troubling trend, I am even less comfortable with the government (and the rest of us) policing what is and is not "appropriate" speech.

      What is clearly " going too far" for some of us might be perfectly acceptable to someone else, and the right to believe different is at risk when powerful issues like this take center stage....

    4. Re:Teh hell by TrollstonButtersbean · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No one needs the ability to exercise lethal force, much less the ability to casually produce the tools that do so.

      The Sherriff of Nottingham and Ghengis Khan didn't need guns to exercise lethal force.

      Hammer, knife, iron pipe, strangulation, pushed from a roof-top.

      I would rather be robbed by a guy with a gun than a guy with a tire iron. The guy with the gun probably won't shoot if I cooperate, besides it is noisy and he can flee without worrying I would follow him.

      The guy with the tire iron might crack me over the head before making his getaway.

    5. Re:Teh hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is this, in any sense of a safe, sane, rational world; a good thing?

      I love building, creating, discovering. The first thing that the ability to self-produce a meaningful firearm, should produce though is a limitation on the right to do so.

      Then we should have had that a century ago. Firearms aren't hard to make. It's just at present much cheaper to buy a mass-produced one, so only a few people bother -- hobbyists for whom making a gun, not just having a gun, is a goal in itself. If we were to have meaningful gun control, but keep ammo readily available, we'd see a lot more homemade guns on the streets. This of course doesn't prove you're wrong, it's just that like way too many urban "makers" you have no clue about how much the old-school lathes-and-files makers can do in their barn, or how many folks with those skills are still around.

      No one needs the ability to exercise lethal force, much less the ability to casually produce the tools that do so.

      In the sense that everyone would be fine if nobody had the ability to exercise lethal force? sure, but that's all theoretical.

      Unfortunately, in a situation where evil people DO have lethal force (maybe because they're 6'2" and train to be able to kill you with their hands -- maybe because they've appropriated tools such as kitchen knives, hammers, etc. -- maybe because, as stated above, firearms really aren't hard to make -- maybe just because we haven't yet managed to ban even mass-produced guns -- maybe because the bad guys have finagled positions as the enforcers of that ban, putting them above the law), the good people are better off having lethal force to deter them (and if it comes to it, fight them) than not.

      As for "the ability to casually produce the tools", how does it matter? If it's easy enough for everyone to do it, every gangbanger will make his own gun. If it's a bit harder, one guy will specialize in it and make guns for the whole gang. (Or in today's world they'll buy stolen guns, because that's easier than either option.) Either way, they have guns.

    6. Re:Teh hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're obviously not American!!

      Go back to your pinko tree-hugging gay-friendly latte-loving communist utopia.

      But seriously. Does this guy have a child-lock on his makerbot?

    7. Re:Teh hell by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No one needs the ability to exercise lethal force, much less the ability to casually produce the tools that do so.

      This isn't about "need" this is about being inevitable. 3D-printed weapons are the inevitable result of improving 3D printer technology. No amount of idealism about what should and shouldn't happen will change that.

      Everything in life is a trade-off. If we don't want 3D-printed weapons, the only way to effectively stop that is to ban 3D printers. Is that a price you are willing pay? There really is no other choice. You can outlaw 3D printed weapons but as long as the printers exist, people are going to be printing weapons.

      Just look at how well the MAFIAA has done trying to stop piracy, it is basically the same set of trade-offs. If you want personal computers and an internet, piracy is going to happen. If you want good 3d printers and an internet, then most forms of physical contraband are going to be 3d printed. Weapons, bongs or whatever. You want 3D printers, that's the price.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    8. Re:Teh hell by gl4ss · · Score: 1, Insightful

      this doesn't actually affect your ability to make an usable firearm(google for history of zipguns, or even m3 or the british ww2 mp) nor your right to make one(getting a license in usa isn't a big deal). point being that you already have the means to "casually" produce something that shoots and that these guys are just trolling for publicity in order to get money and fame.

      buying abs+ fdm machine btw costs more than buying a semi-automatic rifle(to which you could print an extended magazine though with a cheapo printer, however you could build that extended magazine from wood or metal with trivial effort as well).

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    9. Re:Teh hell by tapspace · · Score: 0

      I love this guy. Americans have long held fast to one truth (which I wholeheartedly believe in):

      Freedom is not free.

      It's not only a piece of war propaganda, but one of the very founding principles of our great (once greatest) nation. There is a cost to freedom. The world is going digital: and that means cyberwarfare and hacking and all sorts of nefarious things. And, I know some security people who like to ask "How will we solve this?" The answer is the same as it always has been: with the sword. We are a country that believes (at least on paper) that power can only be granted by the people. So, having an armed populace makes sense.

      And, I'll finish it off. I wholeheartedly believe that NRA line: the world would be safer if more good people packed heat. But, the real problem is this: our government cannot be trusted. They fuck us over and over. In my 30 years I have NEVER been rewarded for trusting my government. I have no problem with gun control in theory. But, I don't trust the government. They are constantly reneging and changing the rules. If I can't trust my government, I want my guns. Period. And, I trust my fellow countrymen a lot more than I do my government (who has been turing police against us my entire life). That's all there is to it. I want the people around me to have guns.

    10. Re:Teh hell by LongearedBat · · Score: 1

      The guy with the tire iron might crack me over the head before making his getaway.

      The guy with the gun might shoot you in the head before making his getaway ...for the same reasons.

      I would rather face off against a guy with a melee weapon than a guy with a gun, because then at least I stand a chance to retaliate (successful or not), simply because it's somewhat harder to dodge/parry a bullet than a melee weapon.

      Also, robberies generally rely on surprise, and no robber will allow you to pull your own weapon, so carrying any kind of weapon for self defence is pointless once the robbery is taking place.

      That said, I understand what another poster wrote about him showcasing the futility in gun control (or control in general).

    11. Re:Teh hell by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      No one needs the ability to exercise lethal force

      Regardless of whether one needs such an ability, the means to exercise it will always be available in society - a human being can be killed with bare hands, if the attacker is sufficiently determined. This, in turn, creates the actual need to be able to exercise lethal force in self-defense against others who would initiate such force against you. To deny that is to deny that people have a right to defend themselves.

    12. Re:Teh hell by loufoque · · Score: 0

      That's a bad analogy: copyright infringement is illegal, building a gun isn't.

    13. Re:Teh hell by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      That's a bad analogy: copyright infringement is illegal, building a gun isn't.

      Maybe not in the US, but it is in plenty of other countries.

      Even so, building certain kinds of guns in the US is illegal. Try building yourself a real machine-gun. It ain't practical to build one, but even if you could, it would be illega.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    14. Re:Teh hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know. The last time someone tried strangling me, I found that stabbing him was just as affective as if I had shot him. Now, if he had a knife, I probably would've wanted to have a sword handy. Then again, if he had a gun, I would've wanted a kevlar vest and an RPG. I guess that's why I traded in my chevy for a Sherman Tank. You never can be too careful when it comes to personal safety, after all. ...Of course, now the government's trying to take away my tank! How dare they?! I mean, I have a right to bear arms and the Constitution doesn't say anything about those arms needing to fit within the guidelines of what society would consider rational or even sane to have.

    15. Re:Teh hell by Loki_1929 · · Score: 2

      No one needs the ability to exercise lethal force, much less the ability to casually produce the tools that do so.

      I'd be curious whether your opinion on this would change were the lives of your family being threatened by brutal savages before your eyes. Perhaps with the lives of those you love being taken before your eyes, you would come to see that there do exist circumstances where a peaceful, law-abiding individual must use deadly force to defend himself and other peaceful, law-abiding people from criminal savages that prey upon the vulnerable.

      Don't take this to mean I wish any harm to come to you or those you love; rather, take it to suggest having the wisdom to empathize with those who've been in such a situation and the understanding to realize just how frighteningly common such situations are.

      --
      -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
    16. Re:Teh hell by loufoque · · Score: 1

      To clarify, according to US law, you can build a semi-automatic gun without any sort of license and registration, but you can only build an automatic gun with a license and if not sold to the government it must be destroyed.

      The law is probably much more restrictive in other countries, where owning any sort of weapon requires registration.

    17. Re:Teh hell by roman_mir · · Score: 2

      It is a good thing in a sane rational world, it is the insane irrational world that would try to destroy individual freedoms.

      Every individual must be able to have any weapon he can acquire, I am talking about every form of weapon, every type of weapon. If a government can have a weapon, the public must be able to acquire it.

      That is exactly why 3D printers that can print guns are a GOOD thing, they will be part of the solution to the government oppression. At the minimum hand guns and rifles (machine guns) are weapons that the public must be able to access to fight against the government oppression. Too bad 3D printers can't print missiles and nuclear bombs though (for now), so those will remain tools of oppression in the foreseeable future.

    18. Re:Teh hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I would rather face off against a guy with a melee weapon than a guy with a gun, because then at least I stand a chance to retaliate (successful or not), simply because it's somewhat harder to dodge/parry a bullet than a melee weapon.

      Also, robberies generally rely on surprise, and no robber will allow you to pull your own weapon, so carrying any kind of weapon for self defence is pointless once the robbery is taking place.

      You might want to read up on and think about the implications of the Tueller Drill. Also, I know of a few instances where robberies where successfully warded off with both handguns and knifes (used in cutting motion rather than stabbing). I personally have been involved in a home invasion (as the intended victim, not the perp, obviously) where a handgun that was kept with me in bed, within reach while sleeping, was very welcome and not at all pointless. (Except for the surprisors getting a nasty surprise themselves, no perpetrators where harmed during the making of that episode. Sadly. To this day, no arrests either.)

      Basically, your views as expressed above are biased by your theories and not borne out in practice.

    19. Re:Teh hell by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I don't know. The last time someone tried strangling me, I found that stabbing him was just as affective as if I had shot him. Now, if he had a knife, I probably would've wanted to have a sword handy. Then again, if he had a gun, I would've wanted a kevlar vest and an RPG.

      If the assailant knows that knives will, or even potentially can, be involved, he's less likely to go for it in the first place precisely because the stakes are higher (and because his physical advantage is somewhat diminished). SImilarly, if the assailant knows that guns can be involved, he is even less likely to pick up a fight, since the likelihood of running into someone with a gun who is actually proficient in it and is able to use it efficiently is rather high (as guns have a much lower barrier to entrance in terms of training, and have minimal physical requirements, compared to either bladed weapons or bare hands). So there's the deterrent effect to consider, as well.

      Even if it would come to an actual fight, I would very much rather have gun vs X versus knife vs X. or bare hands vs X, as it simply gives more viable options - and you can always stand down and hope for the best for non-viable ones, which merely puts you back to where you were unarmed.

      RPG and Sherman tank are, quite obviously, rather useless as defensive weapons, so they do not fall under the same logic.

      Of course, now the government's trying to take away my tank! How dare they?! I mean, I have a right to bear arms and the Constitution doesn't say anything about those arms needing to fit within the guidelines of what society would consider rational or even sane to have.

      The Constitution also says that "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech", yet libel and slander laws have been on the books when it was signed, and remain to this day. Similarly, with the 2nd, we have a reasonable interpretation of it already - it is an individual right, and it covers common individual arms.

      (Of course, originally, the 2nd doesn't have anything to do with self-defense, either. The people who wrote it didn't even consider for a moment that the right to own self-defense weapons could possibly be questioned - they were solely concerned with militia which they believed to be a necessary guarantee of a free state remaining free. Time and experience has shown them to be wrong.)

    20. Re:Teh hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one needs the ability to exercise lethal force, much less the ability to casually produce the tools that do so.

      Sadly, in our less-than-ideal but real world, that need comes up more often than would be preferable. The fact that one may wish to never experience the need, unfortunately does not translate to your statement in real life.

      Moreover, humans have exercised lethal force since time immemorial (killing a mammoth is not much different than killing Ötzi from the next valley over) and was often necessitated by the drive for survival. Obviously, people have also casually produced the tools to do so since then.

      Contrary to many libturds' beliefs, modern survival in the face of lethal force or threats thereof is not enabled by some legal piece of paper, but by the ability to wield sufficient force to counter that force (as it has been for millennia), either in person or by a surrogate (e.g. police, military, judiciary, etc.). The only argument left is which of those two is more effective; personally I prefer to be able to respond in person, as where I live the police is neither effective at response, nor at arresting perpetrators after the fact. But hey, if it is different in your locale, good for you.

      Personally, after being a victim of crime myself, I take quite some exception at your not-well-thought-out opinion.

    21. Re:Teh hell by Splab · · Score: 1

      You got it the wrong way around.

      People are going to get robbed, there will always be someone trying to get rich easy.

      If a robber expects you to be armed, he will step up his attack, so if he expects you to be unarmed, he will most likely come at you with a knife, if he expects you to carry a knife, he will come at you with a gun. If he expects you to carry a gun, he will *SHOOT* you, then take your gun and money.

    22. Re:Teh hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      everyone already has the ability to exercise lethal force (the human body is rather fragile)

      a gun just equalizes things so that a little old granny has a reasonable chance of defending herself against a hoodlum in his prime

    23. Re:Teh hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashtags: fuckwit, irresponsible
      For a guy who only makes a few of those 3d printed guns. The tags are much more fitting for the Obama Administration though.

    24. Re:Teh hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The world is what you make of it.

    25. Re:Teh hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There really is no other choice. You can outlaw 3D printed weapons but as long as the printers exist, people are going to be printing weapons.

      It may be possible to print weapons.

      It is also possible to steal things and hurt people just walking down the street, and without police everywhere, there is no way to prevent it, just to deal with after it happens. And yet there is not chaos in the streets, at least in many cities.

      In a society of grown ups, it should not be too much to ask for some self-control from the vast majority of individuals.

    26. Re:Teh hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're ready to disarm the police then?

    27. Re:Teh hell by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'd rather be attacked by a knife or tire-iron wielder as well. Then he'd be the idiot bringing the knife to the gunfight.

    28. Re:Teh hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having a stronger deterrent also raises the cost for the attacker. Guns are more expensive than knives, and the cost associated with the risk of jail is higher with a gun than a knife.

    29. Re:Teh hell by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Incorrect. No one should need that ability in a completely just world. Unfortunately, we don't live in such a world and some are choosing to exercise that ability even when they don't need to. Then others do, actually, need to exercise it for self-protection.

    30. Re:Teh hell by zyzko · · Score: 1

      How common those situations actually are?

      I mean really - a situation where you or someone else is in immediate danger of dying or getting seriously injured and having a gun can prevent that? And please don't cite every gun death as preventable by the other party also having a gun - it doesn't work that way.

      What if the perpetrator doesn't have access to a gun? These are not black & white situations and luckily in most parts of the civilized world we do not live in a jungle anymore where the strongest can just eat the weakest and people do not generally want to kill each other even if they are desperate and resort to robbery.

    31. Re:Teh hell by fascismforthepeople · · Score: 1

      Too bad 3D printers can't print missiles and nuclear bombs though (for now), so those will remain tools of oppression in the foreseeable future.

      How exactly does a government oppress its own people with a nuclear bomb? If the government nuked its own people it wouldn't have people left to collect taxes from - and the land would be worthless as well.

      Just because you want wealthy people to be able to purchase nuclear weapons on the open market so they can threaten overseas nations that they don't like, doesn't mean that lies about government oppression will be a useful tactic to push your church's agenda. As usual, you are looking to create more power for the wealthy, and more fascism for the people.

    32. Re:Teh hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it is a bad thing in a sane rational world, because guns help government destroy individual freedom more than it protects individuals protect themselves from government.

      Guns are good vs individuals. They're inefficient if not outright poor against a collective. You have guns? Great, the government has a mob of thugs with guns. If it's easy to arm yourself with a gun, it's easy for government to arm its goons with guns. This is why guns help governments more than it helps individuals.

      The real solution is bombs and missiles. Bombs allow individuals to take on collectives effectively.

      There are other advantages to explosives. They're easier to make. The materials required to make them are also easier to come across. You don't need a 3D printer to create IEDs. Just ask the terrorists.

      One of the biggest advantages is that explosives damage the surrounding property and bystanders. This is big because this deters the government from using bombs against you (like they would with guns). See, the whole point of government oppression is to secure property and slaves. Bombs harm both those things. Much like how a bank robber wouldn't risk burning the money he's robbing, a government is afraid to risk damaging the loot it is after. But this is not a limitation to the terrorists and freedom fighters.

      The whole "gun debate" is really just a red herring to distract people from getting bombs, the real solution. Anybody who supports guns (3D or otherwise) has falling into the government's trap.

    33. Re:Teh hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "how frighteningly common such situations are."

      Apparently you frighten easier than I do. I'm in my mid 40s. Not one of the couple of hundred or so people I consider friends or colleagues has ever had the cause to raise a gun in self defense during the entire time I have been alive.

      Apparently those odds frighten YOU though. My advice. Grow a pair,pussy. I don't need a magic firestick to be a man.

    34. Re:Teh hell by gman003 · · Score: 1

      Illegal != unethical, legal != ethical

    35. Re:Teh hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually the government has no beef with you having a tank.

      The cannon doesn't even need to be disarmed.

      Its because tanks are kind of hard to get ahold of, are not subtle, drink fuel like crazy, are stupid expensive for even Korean war models, and require lots of repairs.
      Also, there has only been one instance of an armored vehicle being used in a civilian crime to my knowledge, and if the guy hadn't gotten the Killdozer's tread stuck in a basement, the national guard was going to bring in a missile to take it out.

      Nobody is worried about tanks or gunships, and no criminal is going to go through the trouble to use one.

    36. Re:Teh hell by afgam28 · · Score: 1

      If you want personal computers and the internet, child porn is inevitably going to be distributed too. Should we stop trying to control that?!

      Crime in general is the inevitable result of society. That doesn't mean we should give up trying to minimize it.

    37. Re:Teh hell by tmosley · · Score: 1

      No-one NEEDS an immune system, if we would only outlaw viruses and bacteria.

    38. Re:Teh hell by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Ok, you are now a 70 year old woman. Would you rather face off against a melee armed mugger while you are armed only with your purse, or face an armed mugger with a pistol in your hand?

      Guns level the playing field. Physical strength doesn't enter the equation, which is good for those not in the prime of their lives.

      Where do you get the idea that people don't have time to pull a weapon on a robber? Typical of people like you to make shit up to support your feelings rather than looking at reality.

    39. Re:Teh hell by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Stop making shit up, you insufferable liar.

      Who do you think you are talking to? People who live in an armed society! We know ALL ABOUT gun crime. That is NOT how it happens, 99.99% of the time.

    40. Re:Teh hell by tmosley · · Score: 1

      In the US they do. And they will continue to, gun ban or not. Instituting a gun ban in the US will doom two or more generations to lives of victimization by gun toting criminals and cartelization (see Mexico, which can't even maintain control over large swaths of their country using their ARMY) before settling to a general level of total crime higher than when the country was armed.

      And yes, you DO live in a jungle. Your general crime rate is higher than in the US, and the weak can't have guns to defend themselves against robbery, assault, and rape by hooligans who prowl the street practically unopposed. But you don't think about that because you are young and strong, and thus less likely to be targeted. A Clockwork Orange indeed.

    41. Re:Teh hell by tmosley · · Score: 1

      No succession allowed. Try and we'll nuke your new capital. Now bend over and spread 'em.

      Time to round up the minority of the week.

    42. Re:Teh hell by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Also, all paramilitary organizations. The military proper too, for good measure.

    43. Re:Teh hell by rohan972 · · Score: 1

      no robber will allow you to pull your own weapon

      Some of us aren't restricting our activities to what robbers will "allow". Some of us won't allow this robbers to do stuff.

      so carrying any kind of weapon for self defence is pointless once the robbery is taking place

      Obviously you would be carrying the weapon before the robbery took place and staying alert. Robbers are not magical. They do not "appear out of nowhere". They must approach you or lie in wait so if you are aware of your surroundings it is very difficult for a robber to surprise you. To say that weapons are not effective for self defense flies in the face of thousands of years experience. Why do police have them if they are so ineffective? It is true that nothing can protect you if you walk around oblivious but that isn't something we should encourage, IMO.

    44. Re:Teh hell by loufoque · · Score: 1

      Ethics are relative and change with every person.

    45. Re:Teh hell by zyzko · · Score: 1

      I do not. In my country the crime rate is 2.2 compared to 4.8 of US per 100 000 people (homicides).

      It is not really about gun control, you have to take into account many things, if compared to my country US is a jungle (double homicide rate) is more lax gun control going to help? I seriously doubt it. But feel free to convince me otherwise.

    46. Re:Teh hell by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      If a robber expects you to be armed, he will step up his attack, so if he expects you to be unarmed, he will most likely come at you with a knife, if he expects you to carry a knife, he will come at you with a gun. If he expects you to carry a gun, he will *SHOOT* you, then take your gun and money.

      There is a big difference psychologically between forcing someone to give you money under knife point, and shooting them and taking their wallet and leaving them bleed to death. Far more people are capable of the former and not the latter. A few more are capable of the latter, but are unwilling to risk it even so when they know that they can themselves get shot. As you yourself say, for most involved in this business it's about "trying to get rich easy". Being shot at is not easy.

      Look up burglary stats for US and UK and compare. The interesting difference that you'll see right away is that in UK the burglary is 4-5 times more likely to occur while the owner is at home. And polls in US prisons have shown that inmates fear armed home owners more so than armed police (which is quite reasonable, since home owners are more likely to shoot to stop/kill immediately rather than try to arrest first).

    47. Re:Teh hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd have to disagree.. please point out where in the modern 'civilized' world there has not been a fight, a crime, a theft, a murder, a violent rape in a 30min travel radius for over 10-15 years. Your concept of not living in the jungle is flawed. There may not be trees and vines to swing from, but we very much still live in a society where the strong take advantage of the weak.

    48. Re:Teh hell by fascismforthepeople · · Score: 1

      No succession allowed. Try and we'll nuke your new capital.

      That strategy might work if Hawaii wanted to secede, but anywhere else and the radiation fallout would end up having detrimental effects on the rest of the country.

    49. Re:Teh hell by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      This is a useful exercise. Printing guns will either force our government to try and regulate even privately built guns, or we will have an alternative, no matter how inadequate, to being told 'no'.

      You can guess i don't really trust my government.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    50. Re:Teh hell by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      ^^What was said. Oh, for a mod point.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    51. Re:Teh hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can sell your legally owned fully automatic rifle or sub to anybody willing and able to get a permit (tax stamp) to own one. It is not legal to make or import new ones into the US (all "legal" existing ones were made or imported prior to 1984), therefore there is a diminishing supply and most people who own one are not willing to sell so they are hard to find and expensive.

    52. Re:Teh hell by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2

      If you want personal computers and the internet, child porn is inevitably going to be distributed too. Should we stop trying to control that?!

      Yes. Prosecute the creators because they are the ones harming children and the creation of child porn has nothing to do with computers or the internet. But trying to stop copies of what's already been done from propagating is fruitless and wastes resources that would be better spent on stopping the people who actually harm the kids.

      Crime in general is the inevitable result of society. That doesn't mean we should give up trying to minimize it.

      "Crime" is whatever we say it is. Harm is what we need to be working to minimize, but the harm caused by 3d printing of weapons is small compared to the harm caused by the measures needed to effectively reduce 3d printing of weapons.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    53. Re:Teh hell by Loki_1929 · · Score: 1

      You're limiting it to homicides just like everyone else who's anti-gun.

      What you're essentially saying is that someone who's robbed, raped, and damn near killed (but not quite) should be content with the fact that although they had no legal means of effectively defending themselves, at least their survival is keeping the homicide stats looking nice.

      People who think guns are terrible like to point out the UK (which all but bans its citizens from owning firearms) has a much lower rate of gun deaths each year. First of all, limiting it to gun deaths is just plain stupid. Murder victims don't feel better because they're being murdered by something that isn't a gun. Their families don't have less grief because their family member wasn't killed by a gun. So let's drop that right now.

      Secondly, let's look at total violent crime rates. Then let's remove violent crimes (including homicides) in which the "victim's" life choices have put them in a position where violence is to be expected (in other words, drug addicts, drug dealers, gang members, etc). If someone chooses to join a violent gang and another violent gang kills that person, I'm vastly less concerned about that and think it should be called out in the statistics. It isn't indicative of the risk of violent crime to ordinary law-abiding citizens.

      That aside, when you compare the overall violent crime rates of the United States and nearly any other country on Earth, you find that the US is actually quite good. There's going to be a higher risk of homicide (but again, I'd like to see drug and gang related homicides and other violent crimes separated) in the US, but your risk of being the victim of violent crime overall (things like rape, mugging, serious physical assault, etc) are much lower. In fact, much, much lower. In the last stats I checked (which were probably for 2011), the UK (the gold standard for anti-gun folks) had an overall violent crime rate far higher than some of the worst cities in the US. When you took the whole US' combined statistics, it was something like 1/5th the violent crime rate.

      --
      -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
  13. FTFY by SuperKendall · · Score: 0

    make killing people cheaper, easier, and more available, and more people get killed.

    Make the ability to protect yourself cheaper, easier and more available, and more people get protected.

    Not sure why you want rapists and other criminals to have easier access to victims? That's always been kind of baffling. Unless you have a motive you are not revealing.

    There's a reason why MLK and his supporters had a lot of weapons around. You can't have peace where one side of an equation is armed and the other is not. Then you just have a regular culling.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:FTFY by TrollstonButtersbean · · Score: 0

      Not sure why you want rapists and other criminals to have easier access to victims? That's always been kind of baffling.

      Nice! I have never understood this sentiment either.

      Criminals prey on the weak and defenseless. Police show up *after* a crime has occurred, police cannot be relied on to prevent all crime.

    2. Re:FTFY by femtobyte · · Score: 1

      Make the ability to protect yourself cheaper, easier and more available, and more people get protected.

      "Protect yourself" with a gun means more people get killed. You simply shift from people losing their wallets to muggers, to engaging in gun fights with muggers. You also teach the muggers to shoot first and rob the body later.

      Not sure why you want rapists and other criminals to have easier access to victims?

      The overwhelming majority of rapists are "friends" and family members (who already have plenty of "access" to the victims), not some scary looking dude running out from a dark alley shouting "I'm gonna rape you!". And when your pushy creep boyfriend learns you keep a gun in your purse for self-defense, it just means he'll know an easy place to snag a gun before forcing himself on you.

      There's a reason why MLK and his supporters had a lot of weapons around.

      Yeah, that worked out real well for protecting MLK. And the civil rights activists who leaned more towards stockpiling weapons than peaceful protests generally ended up assassinated by the FBI, not winning civil rights victories.

    3. Re:FTFY by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

      "Protect yourself" with a gun means more people get killed.

      Since they would in turn be killing other people, you are in fact reducing the overall number of people killed.

      Not sure why you want more people dead?

      The overwhelming majority of rapists are "friends" and family members

      And that makes it less useful to stop them with a gun because....

      Yeah, that worked out real well for protecting MLK.

      It did for his goal, which is what mattered. The civil rights movement wasn't about a man, it was about people - many people - all of whom needed protection from very real threats.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    4. Re:FTFY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're presuming that the people killed by your defensive use of guns would not react to greater usage of such.

      Reality is that the muggers would learn to shoot first, then loot your body.

      Why do you want more people dead?

    5. Re:FTFY by KeensMustard · · Score: 1
      The vast majority of rape victims are raped by someone they know. Boyfriend, family friend, member of the family. In these cases, the person doing the raping is more likely to have access to a household gun than the victim. The victim is far more likely than to be intimidated by a gun (explicitly or implicitly) than they are to be in a position to defend themselves with one.

      Guns are enabling rape.

      In the general case the presence of guns in the house will, on average, increase the likelihood that a criminal will have a gun too. In my country, where households don't generally have guns and therefore robbers do not either, a home invasion can be effectively halted by turning on a light. The robber typically will flee the scene - they are, after all, after a DVD player or something easily liftable to sell down the pub and make a quick buck. Who needs the grief of being seen or potentially apprehended? Why risk the far bigger sentence associated with armed robbery?

      Whereas if it were our habit to have guns then criminals would carry guns too, and every break in becomes a deadly confrontation. Someone will most likely be shot and killed - most likely the householder, and sometimes the criminal, who is also someones son or daughter and not really deserving of death merely because they wanted to lift my DVD player. In my case, I'm not going to kill myself or any other person for the sake of a DVD player or TV - mine are insured and I'm not a psychopath. A persons life is worth more than all my material possessions, notwithstanding whether they break the law or not.

    6. Re:FTFY by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      As the police officer who led my concealed carry class said, the criminals are carrying guns. When he first went undercover ~20 years ago, he didn't carry because he didn't want to be recognized as a police officer because he was carrying. Concealed carry was not allowed with or without a permit in our state back then. He took him less than a week to realize that not carrying would have marked him as a law-abiding citizen so he started carrying to fit in with the criminals he was interacting with.

      You don't want to kill someone that breaks into your house when you are there? Fine. Don't. That is your right. As for me and mine... If htey break in while we are home, they are not going to be satisfied with just walking out with your stuff. Statistics show that home invasions almost always end up with somebody dead or seriously injured. The only question is does the victim get to be a victim twice or once?

    7. Re:FTFY by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Except you don't. 99% of mugging attempts on armed people end with them showing their gun, and the assailant fleeing. An unknown number of such assailants then re-evaluate their lives, because they could have died doing what they were doing.

    8. Re:FTFY by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Ignore reality more. You don't have to shoot someone to make them run away. The vast majority don't. Just seeing the gun makes them run, EVEN IF THEY ARE ARMED. Why risk death when there are other victims that have no chance of being able to kill you.

      You could rob someone carrying a gatling gun, it won't stop a bullet from a Derringer from tumbling through your body.

  14. Pussies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They should at least be fully automatic, unlike the old 3d ones. i saw watching him having to pull the trigger to fire a bullet out of the gun made me want to choke. how many clips did he have to reload to get more than 15 magazines through that thing, anyways?

  15. He's crazy but... by Tagged_84 · · Score: 1

    I watched an interview with Cody recently.

    While the guy is a little nuts (ok, maybe more than a little) he does actually have a point. Gun control in the age of 3d printing is going to be virtually impossible. In the next decade we'll move from plastics to metals and from niche to mainstream for 3d printing, any 15 yr old with an internet connection and a (no doubt cheap) home printer will then only need to buy bullets to arm themselves to the teeth.

    Politics are always behind the curve, it would be nice for a change to see any of them try to tackle inevitable changes to our civilization before they become an issue. FYI I'm Australian and lucky enough to be in a country that has proven gun laws work.

    1. Re:He's crazy but... by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      FYI I'm Australian [youtube.com] and lucky enough to be in a country that has proven gun laws work.

      Umm, no.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGq-VWQCEG4

      Here's the history of what happens to innocent people when gun control is enacted.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa-lNiIDsFM

      You might also Google the US "Battle of Athens".

      And, why do supposedly "progressive", forward-thinking people want to undo black civil rights in the US and give the KKK a retroactive victory in reinstating, after the huge civil-rights battle it took to abolish them, the infamous "Black Laws" from the early-1900s that forbid blacks from owning or possessing guns & ammo, only this time, it's everybody's civil rights being crushed under the heel of tyranny?

      I guess the familiar and unchanging weight of slave chains are a comfort to some people who can't manage their own lives and behavior without being rendered helpless and defenseless, and told what to do and when by armed authority.

      The only people gun control has ever actually worked for are criminals and governments which are often indistinguishable from each other, particularly after the general public has been disarmed.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    2. Re:He's crazy but... by beaverdownunder · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That you might actually believe your laughable, ridiculous argument is frightening.

      By your reckoning, Australia should have turned into a fascist state by now; let me assure you, it hasn't. Those who hold the power do not become totalitarian by nature simply because there is less chance of armed revolution.

      I will, however, counter your argument as simply as it ever could be by pointing out that regardless of how many rifles, handguns, etc. you own, you will never be able to defeat a military that has the ability to wipe you off of the face of the earth with a few keystrokes. The entire NRA could never hope to hold off the American military for more than a few hours at best when the 'enemy' has conventional bombs that can level a small city, and nuclear options that produce minimal fallout.

      This is simply about personal empowerment -- the ability to shoot at those who 'threaten' you, the comfort that 'if you had to' you could take the life of another human being. It's thinly-veiled psychopathy that becomes blatant once you actually kill somebody.

    3. Re:He's crazy but... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      lucky enough to be in a country that has proven gun laws work.

      Can you explain then why your gun control laws have not had any meaningful reflection in your homicide rates, or your general violent crime stats?

      http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html
      http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent%20crime.html

    4. Re:He's crazy but... by tapspace · · Score: 2

      20 years is the blink of an eye. Time remains to see what the result will be. I will say this: if you have no leverage, you really will be fucked if there ever is a war.

      I will, however, counter your argument as simply as it ever could be by pointing out that regardless of how many rifles, handguns, etc. you own, you will never be able to defeat a military that has the ability to wipe you off of the face of the earth with a few keystrokes.

      That's a pretty bold statement. Just because you hear people say it a lot doesn't make it true. The world has a long history of the little guy winning in wars. No weapon trumps manpower. Evenmoreso, because a weapon can be used by whoever holds it. It supposes that in a hypothetical revolution the revolutionaries would not be able to subvert the military in many cases. We live in a tenous balance and it benefits both the people and the powers that be that we don't war. I mean we see neckbeards and teenagers hacking into major security companies. The fact of the matter is, a weapon is a weapon, and in a war, it doesn't matter who "owns" it. All that matters is who actually possess it at that moment.

      This is simply about personal empowerment -- the ability to shoot at those who 'threaten' you, the comfort that 'if you had to' you could take the life of another human being. It's thinly-veiled psychopathy that becomes blatant once you actually kill somebody.

      So basically evey human society until modern times was basically populated with psychopaths? Right. You're right. You're so right, you're more right than basically the entirety of human history. You'll have to let me know how it feels sometime.

    5. Re:He's crazy but... by BlueStrat · · Score: 2

      By your reckoning, Australia should have turned into a fascist state by now; let me assure you, it hasn't.

      Better ask the aborigines, they may have a slightly different view from yours. How's that right to freedom of speech and the press? Oops. Fascist states (and almost every other authoritarian regime) don't allow people they want to oppress to own firearms. Can I legally buy and possess an AR-15 or Glock 23 in Sydney as a regular citizen?

      I will, however, counter your argument as simply as it ever could be by pointing out that regardless of how many rifles, handguns, etc. you own, you will never be able to defeat a military that has the ability to wipe you off of the face of the earth with a few keystrokes.

      A significant portion of the military will join the citizens. Besides, how long has that Afghanistan thing against those goat-herders with AKs been going on? Can't they find the right keys to push?

      This is simply about personal empowerment -- the ability to shoot at those who 'threaten' you, the comfort that 'if you had to' you could take the life of another human being. It's thinly-veiled psychopathy that becomes blatant once you actually kill somebody.

      No, it's about the history in this video I linked to in my OP which totally obliterates your statements, which you still have not addressed nor refuted with any facts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa-lNiIDsFM

      If all you've got is more fact-free condescending & contemptuous remarks and emotional hand-waving, don't bother. "Bad guys" will always have guns, they don't obey laws. Police don't prevent crime, they write a report and try to catch those responsible *after the fact*. The only decision is whether or not you're willing to allow people the basic human right to self-defense, or if you'd prefer people be helpless victims.

      Here's two more inescapable facts. 1.> It takes a "good guy" with a gun to stop a "bad guy" with a gun. 2.> There are more "good guys" than "bad guys", so more people in general with guns means more "good guys" with guns compared to "bad guys" with guns.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    6. Re:He's crazy but... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Did you actually look at the links? For those that didn't and fell for his bluff the graphs show a steady decline, with maybe a steeper dip since 2002. Thus the link shows the opposite of what this misleading poster pretends - so we have another idiot that thinks if it's good enough for Bjorn Lomborg to cite stuff that's the opposite of what he says it's good enough for him.
      Above poster, you should be ashamed of yourself lying about a death toll of all things. Are Australians subhuman in your eyes - is that how you justify it? If so - fuck you and your idiocy of worshipping a simple tool for killing things as a combination flag and penis substitute.

    7. Re:He's crazy but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > you will never be able to defeat a military that has the ability to wipe you off of the face of the earth with a few keystrokes

      Iraq
      Afghanistan
      Lybia

    8. Re:He's crazy but... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Did you actually look at the links? For those that didn't and fell for his bluff the graphs show a steady decline, with maybe a steeper dip since 2002. Thus the link shows the opposite of what this misleading poster pretends - so we have another idiot that thinks if it's good enough for Bjorn Lomborg to cite stuff that's the opposite of what he says it's good enough for him.

      I did look at the links, thank you very much. What the links show is that the rate of decline in homicides did not change as the gun ban and the buyback went into effect, which it should have if there is a causative link. If you look at the graphs for longer periods of time, you'll see that this decline actually extends way back (long before the ban), which is a widely known effect for all developed countries (including US, by the way) regardless of what laws they do or do not enact - an effect for which we don't yet have any definite explanation. On the other hand, short-term it actually has an increase after 1996-97 (semi-auto ban and buyback, correspondingly), and an overall spike in 99 - so if you were to draw any obvious (and wrong) correlations from that graph, it's that the ban caused a spike, which you conveniently chose to ignore.

      You also conveniently forgot to mention that this is only for the first link (homicides). The other one (violent crimes) shows a slight decrease in robberies, and a steady increase in assaults.

      Am I going to get an apology for "idiot", "lying" and "fuck you" now?

    9. Re:He's crazy but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      right cause the US army did so incredibly well crushing resistance in vietanm, Irak and afganistan
      And the germans did so very well in stalingrad

      Protracted urban warfare between determined opponents is the most deadly kind of combat known to man, it devolves in a war of attrition.
      It's not pretty and it would last for years if not decades, but you can't really win a war like that as oppressor (doubly so if it's a civil war which would mean your troops are always in hostile territory)

      hell the afgans have essentially been fighting a war of attrition for more then a century, they've outlasted the british, the soviets, and I've no doubt that they will outlast the US also.

    10. Re:He's crazy but... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      So now you're saying there's not enough to draw conclusions despite drawing one yourself and then calling for an apology. Well you and those nanny state weasels that pretend to be Charlton Heston but are really weaklings who want the powerful guns but not the responsibility of military service that comes with them can go fuck yourselves. There's a war on - get off your arse you coward and you'll get to play with as many guns as you like.

    11. Re:He's crazy but... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      A fair percentage of the military is the NRA. Why does every left-wing nutjob always have to assume that every one that joins the military automatically turns into a mindless zombie and will do whatever a misguided politician demands of them?

    12. Re:He's crazy but... by Idarubicin · · Score: 1

      Gun control in the age of 3d printing is going to be virtually impossible. In the next decade we'll move from plastics to metals and from niche to mainstream for 3d printing, any 15 yr old with an internet connection and a (no doubt cheap) home printer will then only need to buy bullets to arm themselves to the teeth.

      Traffic control in the age of private automobile ownership is virtually impossible. In the last century, we moved from hand-built, slow-moving, one-off curiosities to mass-produced, mainstream, consumer death machines. Any 16 year old can legally buy a used car from a "dealer" down the street--a car that can go much faster than the speed limit on any road on the United States, can violate any number of traffic laws, and which can be used to maim or kill. All laws involving automobiles are therefore utterly futile and should be repealed.

      While enforcement is easier when the line between "legal" and "illegal" coincides with the line between "technically feasible" and "technically impractical", it is not a strict requirement. Confusing social problems with technical problems generally leads to sloppy thinking and bad policy.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
    13. Re:He's crazy but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you COMPARE them to US rates?

      US Assault rate for 2012: 2200 per 100,000 vs 800 in Australia

      US Homicide rate for 2012: 4.8 per 100,000 vs 1.3 in Australia

      So yes, the US way is measurably better. If by better you mean an overall violent crime rate 3-4x HIGHER.

      So where's MY apology you stupid fuck? Of are you going to now argue how we're just fundamentally different from the aussies?

      Perhaps our differences that make our crime rate so much higher is our higher prevalence of idiots like YOU.

    14. Re:He's crazy but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm... the links don't show anything which would suggest that the gun ban had any effect on homicides or violent crime, so I'd say op isn't the idiot. This kind of crap is why I think the best thing the US could do is start actually collecting data and analyzing it, so we can make informed policy choices. It seems pretty clear, though, that there's not an easy solution to any of this.

    15. Re:He's crazy but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Australia. Not Fascist?

      lol. Hope you don't like petite women, because if you do, you are a pedophile in the eyes of the state.

      Enjoy your death camp, you filthy pedo.

    16. Re:He's crazy but... by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      FYI I'm Australian and lucky enough to be in a country that has proven gun laws work.

      So... you're a serial rapist/violent criminal, then?

      Because judging from the statistics, those are the only groups who would think that Australia's gun ban is working.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    17. Re:He's crazy but... by stenvar · · Score: 1

      By your reckoning, Australia should have turned into a fascist state by now; let me assure you, it hasn't.

      Constitutional protections and liberties are like condoms: it takes a while fucking (up) until someone gets sick or pregnant. But you don't know when it's going to happen, and that's why you wear them every time.

      This is simply about personal empowerment -- the ability to shoot at those who 'threaten' you, the comfort that 'if you had to' you could take the life of another human being. It's thinly-veiled psychopathy that becomes blatant once you actually kill somebody.

      No, it is about not having to justify one's existence or choices to government. I don't actually own a gun, but I am strongly opposed to gun control.

    18. Re:He's crazy but... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      So now you're saying there's not enough to draw conclusions despite drawing one yourself and then calling for an apology.

      Are you deliberately trying to misread my words so as to construct a strawman you can rage and throw insults at? I have to note, by the way, that when you respond to a rational argument with a string of "fuck yous", you don't exactly end up in a position of strength.

      Anyway, I was saying originally, and am still saying now, that Australian statistics do not show any obvious positive effect that a gun ban & buyback should have had according to various gun control groups. That was the only conclusion I drew (did you by chance miss the word "wrong" in my post where I mentioned some other conclusions that could be mistakenly drawn by looking at the data without understanding it, like you did?).

      Are you disputing that assertion? If yes, then the onus is on you to show a clear connection in those graphs and numbers. After all, you guys have been saying that it's "common sense" all along, so it should be quite obvious and prominent, right?

      Well you and those nanny state weasels that pretend to be Charlton Heston but are really weaklings who want the powerful guns but not the responsibility of military service that comes with them can go fuck yourselves. There's a war on - get off your arse you coward and you'll get to play with as many guns as you like.

      Still fighting a strawman, I see. Unfortunately, I'll have to screw it up for you.

      1. I'm not an American citizen.
      2. I am considerably left wing (social democrat by European accounting, making me a pinko commie in US). I consider Obama too far to the right for my taste.
      3. I do not support those wars.
      4. My primary interest in guns is regarding their personal defensive use, not military / militia.

      Did your brain explode yet? Are you again going to selectively misread to fit me and my argument into your preconceived stereotypes, so that you feel justified in insulting me?

    19. Re:He's crazy but... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      What's up with people not reading what they're replying to today?

      I was not comparing US to Australia. I was comparing Australia before their semi-auto gun ban to Australia after their semi-auto gun ban, to minimize the effect that any other factors might have.

      Comparing US to Australia like that is stupid because the countries differ on a multitude of other important factors, especially socioeconomic ones (income inequality, percentage of population living under the poverty line, percentage of population without access to healthcare). Not to mention demographic differences. You'll have to demonstrate that the observed difference between rates in US and Australia is not due to all those factors before you can nail it down to guns. Or, alternatively, you can look at Aussies themselves (and also UK), because in that case you are looking solely at the change in gun policy, and so any effect - or lack thereof - can be attributed to that.

      On the other hand, if you want to be one of those idiots who just take two random points and compare them on that single thing while ignoring any background, then you'll spend a lot of time explaining away why gun-friendly US states tend to do better than gun-wary ones, sometimes significantly so. I'm waiting (and note that you are not allowed to refer to any other differences between the states, like population density or economics, since you're ignoring that for your US/AU comparison!).

      I didn't call anyone an "idiot" or a "stupid fuck", and my point remains valid, so I don't owe anyone an apology.

    20. Re:He's crazy but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The first link shows homicides involving firearms went down. The second link shows cases of assault have steadily increased. I'd say you're both right but I guess that just means you're both wrong?

    21. Re:He's crazy but... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      The entire NRA could never hope to hold off the American military for more than a few hours at best

      In case you weren't aware, there are a LOT of NRA members in the American military.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    22. Re:He's crazy but... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      When you started pouring out bullshit based on almost nothing and started insulting the dead of my country for a petty aim did you really expect a polite response? This old tired argument that Australia had gone full "Road Warrior"(AKA "Mad Max") that the NRA pushed hard is disgusting, and you should know better than to repeat it if you are recycling it second hand. You've been sucked in by propaganda from the nanny state idiots that want to put expensive security guards in every school instead of giving up using military weapons as toys.
      What really pisses me off is the pretence that the federal gun laws of a few years back were a single event and not part of a process, mostly at the state level, to cut back on semi-automatic weapons and crack down on black market pistols, sawn off shotguns etc. That and the small sample size to begin with (not a lot of violent crime compared with the USA, South Africa etc) is why there's no massive bump on a curve or the square wave you seem to be expecting (nobody else would be reading by now). So in other words, people who know fuck all about what was going on are pushing their own agendas by making the graph mean whatever they like instead of a description of what was actually going on, and you are spewing it onto this page for some reason.

    23. Re:He's crazy but... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Considering only one event of a long process is also similarly misleading.

    24. Re:He's crazy but... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      When you started pouring out bullshit based on almost nothing and started insulting the dead of my country for a petty aim did you really expect a polite response? his old tired argument that Australia had gone full "Road Warrior"(AKA "Mad Max") that the NRA pushed hard is disgusting, and you should know better than to repeat it if you are recycling it second hand.

      Now you're not only reading my posts selectively, but you're reading what's not even there. At no point I "insulted the dead" of your country (if you disagree, point where I did so!). At no point did I claim that Australia had gone "Mad Max" - I'm not sure what it is even supposed to mean? My argument does not come from NRA, it is a result of my own personal study of statistics publicly available on Australian government websites (though even if it did came from NRA, what's your intent on pointing it out, other than to make an ad hominem attack?).

      You've been sucked in by propaganda from the nanny state idiots that want to put expensive security guards in every school instead of giving up using military weapons as toys.

      Again you ascribe to me something that I didn't say or imply, based on your flawed understanding of my political views that you derive from my position on a single point and your stereotypes of the American political culture (to remind, I am not an American! I live in US for two years now, but I've been pro-gun long before I came to this country, and my country of origin has extremely tight gun control). What made you believe that I support NRA hysterics over, say, Brady's hysterics? Armed guards in schools is an idea just as silly as AWB. Both are overreactions in response to a very small and low-priority (but blown out of all proportion) issue, and both are ineffective in achieving their desired goals at that. I disagree with NRA on many things when it comes to gun policy, too (e.g. I support universal background checks). So don't "NRA" me. I do my own research; that's why none of my references so far have been to pro-gun propaganda.

      What really pisses me off is the pretence that the federal gun laws of a few years back were a single event and not part of a process, mostly at the state level, to cut back on semi-automatic weapons and crack down on black market pistols, sawn off shotguns etc. That and the small sample size to begin with (not a lot of violent crime compared with the USA, South Africa etc) is why there's no massive bump on a curve or the square wave you seem to be expecting (nobody else would be reading by now).

      The ongoing process you are referring to is not contiguous - rather, it consists of a series of single events like this one, each taking out a slice of the overall pie. This particular even was notable for the sheer scale of it - if Wikipedia is to be believed, it took 600,000 firearms out of civilian hands. So, yes, I would expect that to be prominently reflected on the graphs if there is any causative link. More importantly, if the stats didn't change, then, regardless of anything else, the law failed at its intended purpose.

      Frankly, by defending my position, I'm doing you a favor in the first place (and it's getting tiresome for all the one-way insults that you keep spewing - are you unable to calmly and politely discuss matters like an adult?). Rationally speaking, I should just turn the table and ask you to demonstrate that an assault weapon ban, or gun bans in general, would be efficient in reducing homicides, or violent crimes in general. Since you're in favor of restricting other people's freedom for the sake of public good, the onus is on you to demonstrate that the measures you propose are actually efficient in achieving the desired effect. There is plenty of statistical data available publicly online, surely you can find something to showcase? And seeing how your own country and UK have both been going that way for a long time now (UK has had very tight gun co

    25. Re:He's crazy but... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      That long process still had a beginning and the end. If you can demonstrate, for both UK and Australia, that there is an obvious correlation between the beginning of the process (and the up- and downturns in its rate) and homicide & crime rates, please go ahead.

    26. Re:He's crazy but... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I don't have to, I merely have to point out what I did above to demonstrate that you are taking graphs out of context to try to prove something other than what they show. You are making the wild claim, it's up to YOU to prove it.

    27. Re:He's crazy but... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Since you're in favor of restricting other people's freedom

      That's where we disagree. I laugh at your idea that having some military weapon to use as a toy in your cupboard is in some way increasing your freedom. All it does is make law enforcement nervous enough that they may restrict your freedom by shooting first and ask question of the survivors later. Your entire premise is flawed, and using death statistics from my country to attempt to prop it up is a perversion especially when you don't have a clue what those numbers actually represent. The semi-automatic ban is just one of a long series of firearms rules going back decades. There are just as many guns in Australia as there were before the buyback but they are of different types.
      I learned how to fire a rifle at the age of eight and I'm not anti-gun, but I most definitely am opposed to NRA "why can't we all own machine guns so we can overthrow the state" bullshit.

    28. Re:He's crazy but... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      That's where we disagree. I laugh at your idea that having some military weapon to use as a toy in your cupboard is in some way increasing your freedom.

      That's pretty basic and self-evident stuff. If you tell someone that they are not allowed to do X, you are restricting their freedom. You may argue that it's not a particularly useful freedom, but that alone is not sufficient reason to restrict it. You have to show actual evidence of harm stemming from it - or, which is the same thing in reverse, show that restricting it will reduce the total amount of harm. So far no-one was able to demonstrate that.

      By the way, do you seriously consider any semi-auto rifle a "military weapon"? If not, then can you give your definition of the same? I will be particularly curious about how you're going to distinguish e.g. Saiga and Valmet rifles - which are advertised and sold as hunting weapons - from, say, an AK, or even that same Saiga converted to an AK-lookalike.

      Your entire premise is flawed, and using death statistics from my country to attempt to prop it up is a perversion especially when you don't have a clue what those numbers actually represent. The semi-automatic ban is just one of a long series of firearms rules going back decades.

      Cool; so, going back to the original question, can you use statistics from your country to demonstrate that any of those long series of firearm rules, either individually or in concert, had any meaningful effect?

      There are just as many guns in Australia as there were before the buyback but they are of different types.

      I'm not sure what you're implying here; are you saying that guns of the types - I assume you mean bolt/pump/lever-action - that replaced semi-autos are just as dangerous? If so, then what was the point of the buyback?

      but I most definitely am opposed to NRA "why can't we all own machine guns so we can overthrow the state" bullshit.

      For one thing, as noted, I have my own position, which is more nuanced than that of the NRA. But given that you've mentioned machine guns, I don't think you're even truly aware of their position - I mean, have you actually seen it from the original sources, as opposed to your favorite anti-gun website? I haven't heard NRA arguing for "machine guns", i.e. fully automatic weapons. And the assault weapon ban, which the NRA opposed, is not about them - it's about specific categories of semi-auto guns, some cherry-picked by name, others on the grounds of various random features deemed scary looking - flash suppressors, recoil compensators, barrel shrouds (google for "it's the thing that goes up"), pistol grips etc. If your claim to familiarity with guns is true, you have to understand just how ridiculously pointless it is.

    29. Re:He's crazy but... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I'm not making a wild claim; I'm disputing OP's wild claim that he is "lucky enough to be in a country that has proven gun laws work". I've yet to see a shred of evidence in favor of this.

    30. Re:He's crazy but... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Why are you continuing this shit? You have zero credibility thanks to things like pretending you've come up with this stupid bit of NRA dogma that defames my country on your own so it's not worth reading your long posts to see what new lies you've inserted. Take your racist jokes somewhere else.

    31. Re:He's crazy but... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Why not? I have time to waste, and it's somewhat entertaining to see how silly you make yourself look by foaming at the mouth when you run out of counter-arguments to use, and slip into invective. You claim to not read my posts, yet you do bother to reply, so clearly there's more potential here.

      What's really curious is that you're not the first one to do that - there are at least two other Slashdot posters who have the same approach to arguing gun politics. Now, anecdotes are not data, but you guys are working hard to make me rethink some things. I have always assumed that the majority of hoplophobes are rational people who just happened to have a shortage of information (without realizing that), or outright incorrect second-hand information because they've got it from sources that they normally trust and don't bother to verify. But you guys consistently ignore data and arguments based on that data, even when it's shoved right into your face - without even trying to refute them - and go for violent emotional outbursts instead. This implies that you're simply incapable of thinking calmly and rationally about the topic - rather, it is a strictly emotional hot-button issue for you, kinda like homosexuality is for the Westboro Baptist Church - you can't explain why, but it's just icky to you and you hate it and anyone who defends it with a passion.

    32. Re:He's crazy but... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      You claim to not read my posts

      No I wrote "it's not worth reading your long posts to see what new lies you've inserted" - so there we go again - another lie.
      Considering you are the one making the wild claim (about Australia's gun laws being a failure) it's up to you to justify them instead of expecting people to run around finding papers that prove that water is wet just because you've said it isn't.

    33. Re:He's crazy but... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      What's really curious is that you're not the first one to do that

      Since you opened with a brazen and insulting lie there was not a lot of point attempting reasoned discussion and instead I called out your lie - hence the other responses of that type you've attracted presumably by doing the same thing.

    34. Re:He's crazy but... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      But you guys consistently ignore data and arguments based on that data, even when it's shoved right into your face

      You lied about what the data means, made some self-serving assumptions and it's all a fucking game to you because you know you are lying and think we are all too stupid to notice.

    35. Re:He's crazy but... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Apart from the graph you linked to that shows a steady decline over the years as more and more rules have been applied to firearm usage you mean? Give it up, we both know you are lying and are just insulting my country to push your childish and sociopathic agenda.

    36. Re:He's crazy but... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      My first post in this thread was:

      your gun control laws have not had any meaningful reflection in your homicide rates

      You have still failed to show any evidence whatsoever that it is a "brazen and insulting lie". I, on the other hand, have shown evidence - hard data - that you dismissed solely on the basis of it being inconvenient and not consistent with "the real picture", whatever that is. This implies that you do possess knowledge of "the real picture", which - if it's truly knowledge and not blind faith - is supposed to be rooted in evidence. Since no evidence was presented, I, and any other would-be readers, will have to assume that blind faith it is. There's nothing wrong with it, either - people hold strong non-rational beliefs over all kinds of things - so long as you realize and admit, to yourself at least, that it is a belief (not fundamentally any different from, say, Christianity) or a phobia (not fundamentally any different from homophobia).

      By the way, three replies to the same single comment of mine within 15 minutes, all random insults and ad hominems? If I had any doubt before that you're quite literally having hysterics, you have just dispelled them now. I still have no idea what made you believe that I am trying to insult you or your country or anyone else. But I suppose I should appreciate the fact that even as an unintentional insult, it was apparently a very well-aimed one, if you are still fuming and just can't wind down.

    37. Re:He's crazy but... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      By the way, three replies to the same single comment of mine within 15 minutes, all random insults and ad hominems?

      Did you really expect anything else for pushing the NRA propaganda about Australia?

    38. Re:He's crazy but... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Equivalent graphs showing that same decline can be shown for all Western countries, regardless of when and whether they have restricted or relaxed their gun regulation. For example, in US, the rates have been steadily going down since late 80s, despite a rapidly growing culture of concealed carry (from 9 shall-issue/unrestricted states in 1986 to 41 in 2012), record growth in the number of firearms held by citizens, and a significant proportion of those firearms being the "evil assault weapons of war". AWB came and went away, showing no effect whatsoever on the numbers, that kept steadily decreasing after it expired.

      I'm not insulting your country. Your country has tried an experiment which had the best of intentions, but failed. It happens, and the consequences can be far more catastrophic with more daring experiments - in your case all that you've got is a minor rise in some categories of violent crime (e.g. assaults). Realizing and admitting defeat, though, is the first step to actually solving the problem - or, in this case, realizing that the problem itself is imaginary. Exorcisms are inefficient because possession is not caused by demons. Gun bans are inefficient because crime is not caused by guns. Yet some countries still burn "witches", and some countries still ban "assault weapons" - it's unfortunate, but humans learn most efficiently from mistakes. Learn from yours.

      On the other hand, your attitude in this discussion is highly insulting to your country, you insisting on "representing" it, and doing so in such a profoundly childish and immature manner. I am lucky to personally know some Aussies, so I understand that this isn't actually a common trait for you guys, but others may not have similar experience to fall back onto, and will judge your country based solely on your attitude.

    39. Re:He's crazy but... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      To be honest, I'm kinda tempted to start posting links to NRA (or better yet, GOA - let's go straight for batshit insane) just to see what kind of response this would provoke you into, if you're so riled up about one innocent question that I have initially introduced to this conversation.

      But, no. I'll stick to my guns (heh). So, have you come by any evidence disproving the "NRA propaganda" yet? Or are you too busy writing another string of insults?

  16. 3D-Printed Gun May Be Unveiled Soon 33 by jandersen · · Score: 3, Funny

    - accompanied by the words "Give your fucking wallet..."

  17. Oy vey by borrrden · · Score: 0

    As if guns weren't easy enough to get without a proper license...

  18. 3d printing by Osgeld · · Score: 1

    "prototype would be a handgun consisting of 12 parts made out of ABS+ thermoplastic, which is known for its durability and is commonly used in industrial settings."

    yea but its not thin slivers of plastic that happened to surface bond to a cooling surface, yea it seems strong to your hand, but not to any mechanical force, its actually quite brittle

    but yay 3d printing with weedeater string!

  19. Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This man is single-handedly ruining 3D printing for EVERYONE, just because he's a gun nut obsessed with firearms. He's pushing into a gray area and setting a very early precedent that will impact the availability of 3D printing for the rest of America.

    Cody Wilson is just what you'd expect from a 25-year old, gun nut, pothead, government conspiracist. He's afraid of having his weapons taken away, he's afraid of having his weed taken away, and he's afraid of his rights being taken away. His entire life is ruled by fear. So how does Cody respond? He perverts a revolutionary technology to make _more_ fucking weapons with them in violation of the law.

    Fuck Cody. This is why scientists and engineers fucking hate people that take what they pour their lives into and deform for their own fucked up needs. When the 3D printer was invented people envisioned a technology that could help, that could make development rapid, that would improve our lives. Now Mr. Wilson has ruined all that and made it a tool to create weapons.

    Cody Wilson is a fucking asshole.

    1. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's hoping his first test grants him a seat of honor at the Darwin Awards!

    2. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      If you believe in gun rights (or at least don't consider them to be a concern), then surely there's nothing wrong with what Cody is doing, and you should rather go after the people who would take away your ability to 3D-print things for the sake of restricting guns.

      if you believe in gun control, then you should be thankful to Cody for demonstrating how 3D printing is highly relevant early on, enabling regulation before someone actually designs and prints a gun for themselves and goes on to enact Newtown 2.0 with it. Surely if guns are bad, and 3D printing can be used to make guns, then 3D printing should be regulated?

      Either way, you sound like a spoiled brat who only cares about his toy and is afraid that it will be taken away, regardless of who does it or for what reason.

    3. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by Pseudonym+Authority · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If this gets 3D printing banned then it proves him right, and the government is tyrannical and does need to go.

    4. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might no know this, but 12 gauge shotgun shells fit 3/4 inch galvanised water pipe quite well. Galvanising, hacksaws, and welding are decades/centuries-old tech that is generally available and cheap. I even know of skirmishes fought with weapons made from the above, to the point of neutralising the occupants of armoured personnel carriers. Quit whining.

    5. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      And here we have a classic example of a stupid yank. Are you really that fucking stupid.

      So you'r logic is that because the government might move to regulate 3D printing because some imbecile yank wants to create lethal, easily available, weapons, that take innocent lives it proves him right.

      Do you know what, all your founding fathers, the likes of Washington, Jefferson, Adams... I'm pretty sure that if they could see what their country has become would disown you as a nation.

      As a nation you've become self centered, greedy. You only ever seem to worry about your individual rights, fuck the good / rights of every one else. Heaven forbid you should all work together towards a common good. You are pathetic.

    6. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, 3D printers wont be banned.
      I'd say what will be banned are the source files for said weapons and any distribution etc.
      It will probably be policed the same way child porn is delt with. Usually with international co-operations.

      I'm also surprised no one has considered the true implications of a fire a few rounds plastic weapon......
      After your "Finished" using it, Just pop it in a frypan or backyard incinerator and there is no more weapon.

       

    7. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh I forgot to also mention, getting through metal detector checks might be an issue....

    8. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by c · · Score: 3, Funny

      He's pushing into a gray area and setting a very early precedent that will impact the availability of 3D printing for the rest of America.

      What he's doing doesn't really matter. It could just as easily be someone printing dildos in Alabama or cloned Games Workshop miniatures. At some point, someone is going to use 3D printing to do something the government really doesn't like, and... well, I'm not sure anyone really knows what's going to happen.

      Personally, I'd prefer that the government gets a bloody nose going after the second amendment nuts than quietly shutting down sex toy creators.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    9. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Absolutely goddamn right. Fuck Cody Wilson. I'm going to laugh my ass off when he accidently shoots off his own foot. He's just another intellectually dishonest asshole child.

    10. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      Cody Wilson is exactly what is needed, he is great. He is NOT violating any laws by making a gun for himself either.

      When he succeeds printing a gun, people will pay more attention to 3D printing, it just may be THE killer application (sort of a pun) that will accelerate development of all sorts of 3D printers.

    11. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The most vocal people I know who are for gun rights are also the last people I want to see own a firearm. Including section 8 and PTSS people, who believe in Obama is setting up concentration camps--fucking insane.

    12. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Come now, Innocent lives are lost every day to all kinds of things and generally at a much higher rate than to guns. Something like 80% of gun related deaths in the US are criminals killing other criminals. That is people engaged in a criminal activity other than the improper use of a firearm are also using firearms to kill like-minded folks. The next largest chunk is suicide. A very small portion is criminal killing non-criminal or accidental. Even the accidental ones are about half alcohol related. Its been a while since I looked, but every other "Western" country has very similar stats.

    13. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      That's a perfect liberal. Doesn't like guns because they hurt people but willing to laugh when the wrong person gets hurt by one. Not only willing to laugh but begging for the opportunity to do so. F***ing hypocrite.

    14. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by MozeeToby · · Score: 1

      To restrict a technology like 3D printing, in it's infancy now but potentially earth shatteringly useful in 10 to 20 years, simply to prevent the legal manufacture of weapons would be a very bad thing.

    15. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In fact my friend every technology have a double use, remenber that the atom bomb was invented by professional scientists and engineers, they do not invent a civil nuclear reactor first they invent the nuclear bomb first, so before you start to rant to somebody you have to admit the professional scientists and engineers are fucking asshole too.

    16. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know... This won't necessarily get 3D printing banned (well I HOPE not). Think about downloading copyrighted material from The Pirates Bay and other illegal activities done online. Because people do this, COMPUTERS haven't been banned; just the act of piracy is illegal. Hopefully the government won't be stupid and they'll just ban the use of 3D printing to make weapons.... Perhaps make it illegal to even own or distribute a 3D model file that's capable of generating a working gun on a 3D printer. That's what they need to do instead of banning 3D printing altogether.

    17. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Scientist/engineer here. Actually working in 3d printing research.

      Applications like Cody's actually inspired me to work on 3d printing of advanced ceramics. My current favorite material is Si3N4.

      Tougher than inconel, with micron layer heights. This will have way more applications than just guns.

    18. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This man is single-handedly ruining 3D printing for EVERYONE, just because he's a gun nut obsessed with firearms. He's pushing into a gray area and setting a very early precedent that will impact the availability of 3D printing for the rest of America.

      Cody Wilson is just what you'd expect from a 25-year old, gun nut, pothead, government conspiracist. He's afraid of having his weapons taken away, he's afraid of having his weed taken away, and he's afraid of his rights being taken away. His entire life is ruled by fear. So how does Cody respond? He perverts a revolutionary technology to make _more_ fucking weapons with them in violation of the law.

      Fuck Cody. This is why scientists and engineers fucking hate people that take what they pour their lives into and deform for their own fucked up needs. When the 3D printer was invented people envisioned a technology that could help, that could make development rapid, that would improve our lives. Now Mr. Wilson has ruined all that and made it a tool to create weapons.

      Cody Wilson is a fucking asshole.

      You can't stop the signal.

      3-D printers are basicly the modern world's equivalent to a movable type printing press. The world is changing, the peasants are gaining the ability to manufacture goods from easily distributed files and there's nothing you can realistically do to stop that.

      The elegant solution to gun control is to address the underlying social problems that make people want to own guns (because making it hard to acquire guns is a loosing move). Reduce poverty so people have less worry about being robbed, and less incentive to join a gang. Reduce the black market for drugs by ending prohibition (it worked for alcohol). Reign in politicians so people don't feel disenfranchised, and fix the healthcare system so mental healthcare is available to those who need it.

    19. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by tmosley · · Score: 1

      >stupid yank
      >you'r

      lol

    20. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by csumpi · · Score: 1

      Soon you can change that to:

      Cody Wilson was a fucking asshole.

      That will happen as soon as his plastic gun (that gets nice and soft at a mere 200C) backfires or explodes in his hands.

    21. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by tmosley · · Score: 1

      The liberal is concerned only with his own feelings. Reality or the pain of others only matters to the extent that they validate his pre-existing feelings. The neoconservative is the same, only the feelings they feel are tied up in nationalism.

      This world is rotting.

    22. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      You know... This won't necessarily get 3D printing banned (well I HOPE not).

      ignore the FUD; it won't, any more than CNC mills and drill presses are banned (which can be used to make a REAL firearm, not a novelty that self-destructs after a couple rounds).

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    23. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Oh I forgot to also mention, getting through metal detector checks might be an issue....

      Right, because bullets aren't made of metal, and they don't train dogs to sniff for gunpowder...

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    24. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why scientists and engineers fucking hate people that take what they pour their lives into and deform for their own fucked up needs.

      For what it's worth, I'm a mechanical engineer with years of experience in 3D printing/scanning, and projects like these bring me great joy. Cody's fears are entirely reasonable - his weapons, weed, and rights ARE being taken away. While you're being so fearless, you're also standing idly by and letting that happen. I'd be honored if my work helped bring about freedom for billions of people.

      You think we didn't see this coming? Everyone should be able to make anything - I already can, and I think you deserve that right too.

    25. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by crtreece · · Score: 1

      he's afraid of his rights being taken away

      I don't see your suggestion of some other way for him to defend himself.

      in violation of the law.

      [citation needed]

      Nevermind, I gotcha here. The United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives doesn't agree with you.

      Q: Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle?

      With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semi-automatic rifle or non-sporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machine gun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a Federal or State agency.

      [18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105]

      My emphasis added. NFA would be the National Firearms Act, and it applies to machine guns, machine gun parts, short barreled shotguns/rifles, silencers, etc. It doesn't apply to your standard handgun, rifle, or shotgun.

      When the 3D printer was invented people envisioned a technology that could help, that could make development rapid, that would improve our lives. Now Mr. Wilson has ruined all that and made it a tool to create weapons.

      I don't understand how his use of some tool changes your ability to use your own similar tool for some other use. Sure, go ahead and tell me about how 3D printers are going to be outlawed, it's been a busy morning and I need a laugh.

      --
      file: .signature not found
    26. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      Pay attention. he;s made two of them at least, and lived through testing both, no injuries.

      perhaps you would volunteer for the third try, to satisfy your virtually total lack of information of this?

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    27. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, because it is *so* much harder to 3-d print a model of a Claymore mine's shell. Or a pressurized airgun. Or rocket parts. Or knives or swords or clubs... Or .

      And, while we're on the subject, if it *WEREN'T* for people using whatever for whatever your little brain thinks is a fucked up need, there wouldn't *BE* engineers and scientists. Instead we'd all sit around the cave picking fleas of each other.

      Better yet, just tell us what you think you need 3d printing for, and I'll let you know why your desire is so fucked up and ruining it for everybody such that 3d printing should be banned outright.

    28. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He wants to exercise his rights. Simple as that. Get over it. ( and yourself ). You want to check your concept of the law too. While there are some restrictions, it is 100% legal to build your own firearms.

      You sir are the asshole.

    29. Re:Cody Wilson can go fuck himself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you have a monarch's bootheel to go lick?

  20. Re:then he's going to get sued to oblivion by drcheap · · Score: 1

    Doesn't matter...he's got the license, and is likely going to sell them.

  21. It's the prefect gun. by Sqr(twg) · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It can only fire "a few shots" before needing repair, and the muzzle velocity is probably low enough that even those are unlikely to be deadly. If a nutcase in my neighborhood was getting a gun, I'd want him to get this one.

    Stricter control on real guns, and 3D-printing for the masses seem to be a good way forward.

    1. Re:It's the prefect gun. by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 1

      I was thinking along other lines. Could you build a "temporary" gun, so it will cease to exist as evidence? Some plastics can be broken down or melted and re-used as a garden gnome quite easily. It won't help you one bit if you own a gun because of the dangerous wildlife, but it would be ideal for criminals. Evidence? What evidence?

      --
      Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
    2. Re:It's the prefect gun. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A bullet which is not confined in a barrel can be pretty dangerous, possibly even lethal. I'd expect a crappy plastic barrel to be fine for a dozen or so shots, before it deforms enough to jam the cycling.

      But a metal barrel could be easily made with some thick tubing and sized correctly with a drill. You could even make a simple rilfing tool from an allen wrench...

  22. And what about outside the US? by clickclickdrone · · Score: 1, Insightful

    What about countries where firearms are illegal or strictly controlled? Great, now our sundry criminals will be able to get guns made to order. Way to go with extreme irresponsibility. Hope you can live with the blood on your hands.

    --
    I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
    1. Re:And what about outside the US? by Pseudonym+Authority · · Score: 1

      It's illegal in places where it is illegal, so surely no one will get it. Pandora has not opened the box in those places, after all.

    2. Re:And what about outside the US? by clickclickdrone · · Score: 1

      Obviously criminals can get them where they're illegal but if the supply isn't there, less guns. If the crims can buy a 3D printer and start making their own, we have a problem. It's not a hard concept.

      --
      I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
    3. Re:And what about outside the US? by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      In these places ammo is strictly controlled too. It's difficult to obtain illegally - purchase from a legal gun owner can get said owner ears deep in shit so that's not a viable avenue for common street criminals - and the high-profile ones can afford smuggled guns of high quality, don't need printed ones.

      In other words: if you can obtain ammo illegally, you don't need a printed gun, you can get a real one illegally.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    4. Re:And what about outside the US? by Pseudonym+Authority · · Score: 1

      Ban 3D printers seems to be your best option then. You could shut down this project, but others would pop up eventually. We can't even shut down child porn sites and botnets, much less things that are only illegal in some countries. There is no good way to delete information or contain it in ways that don't include crimes against humanity. You'll just have to remove the ways to use it: 3D printers themselves. It sucks, I know, but unless you're in a country that has figured out how to stop 13yo boys from spreading The Anarchist Cookbook around....

    5. Re:And what about outside the US? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is my problem with this. He thinks he is 'so cool', and it is an achievement for sure. But, all this will do is lead to bigger guns for gangs and ex-cons who want revenge. And it can lead to people having guns (who don't care about the prison time for just having one) in foreign countries that are much safer because the gun culture and paranoia isn't there.

    6. Re:And what about outside the US? by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Maybe those places could grow up and realize that guns being available to responsible adults don't actually cause problems. They can grow up and realize that the notion of chunks of metal, no matter how curiously they are worked, do not have magical powers to control their possessor.

      Here is a clue for you. If your criminals want guns, they'll get guns. Nothing you or your masters do will stop them. Even the USSR had murders committed with guns and there hasn't been a much more controlled society.

    7. Re:And what about outside the US? by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Yup. Difficult to obtain legally. Probably no more difficult to obtain illegally than the gun itself. Keep living the fantasy that your criminals are more "civilized" and law-abiding than ours.

    8. Re:And what about outside the US? by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 1

      This is way over the top an uninformed. 3D printed guns take advantage of the fact that what is regulated as a gun in the U.S. is subject to relatively low stress. It doesn't include chambers or barrels (the parts made of steel and the parts hard to obtain in other countries). Besides that, there already exist plenty of CAD plans for CNC'ing the "gun" out of steel, from cheap CNC machines.

      What 3D printing offers is absolutely no advantage over existing vectors of getting guns in your country. It is not any easier, and is more dangerous to use.

      This is one of the main flaws with gun control arguments. Guns aren't watches, they don't have to be precisely machined or require magic or special skills to work. Scary guns like Assault Rifles can have the major parts machined trivially, with the remainder being sets of springs and pins which are rarely regulated due to the difficulty in doing so.

      --
      while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
    9. Re:And what about outside the US? by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      Rather than _The Anarchist Cookbook_ (which if the author had control of his copyright would be unavailable for safety concerns), get something which has complete, tested instructions which won't get you killed or maimed:

      TM 32-210 Improvised Munition Handbook --- available at http://cryptome.info/0001/tm-31-210.htm or from your local bookstore

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    10. Re:And what about outside the US? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      What about countries where firearms are illegal or strictly controlled?

      You mean places like Syria, Iran, and North Korea?

      Hope you can live with the blood on your hands.

      Do you also place blame on Boeing for 9/11? Chevrolet for all the people killed in DWI accidents? No? Then STFU.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    11. Re:And what about outside the US? by csumpi · · Score: 1

      Nothing will change in your country:

      - criminals already have guns, or know where to get them
      - criminals will most likely pick something more reliable and powerful

      Firearms being illegal in your country has nothing to do with criminals anyway. It's just gives your government more freedom and options.

      Though you're right about the blood on his hands. That will happen when the thingy backfires or blows up.

    12. Re:And what about outside the US? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about countries where firearms are illegal or strictly controlled?

      Ban bullets. Ban printers. Ban plastic. Ban Internet. Ban books. Ban speech. Ban thought.

    13. Re:And what about outside the US? by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      The high-profile ones who can afford a smuggled gun and ammo don't bother mugging people in dark alleys.

      The small-time ones lack contacts and money to get smuggled guns. Note obtaining guns locally illegally is nearly impossible, the trade is very heavily regulated and there are too few gun owners with too good security for a small fish bandit to rob to steal their gun - besides, why risking robbing a guy who has a gun while there are so many who don't have one?

      In the US the cat is out of the box - too many guns "out in the wild" and any ban will remove them from hands of citizens while leaving them in hands of bandits. Here the regulation is old, and in the "times of communism" armed robbery was a good way to go to prison for a long, long time - say what you want, the police was *very* efficient - so most people just turned in any leftover guns from IIWW and so nowadays guns are simply out of reach of small-time bandits.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  23. a spectacular failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It will not be safe with any real live ammo.
    Zinc alloy guns cannot cope with pressures from plain .22LR rimfire ammo, so how could anything made of polymer/plastic?
    Maybe if it uses special ammo (primer + bb pellet or such) it works. It absolutely will not work with real ammo unless the pressure-burdened parts are made of steel. Proper steel, not some MIM cast crap or powder-printed sponge.

    1. Re:a spectacular failure by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      you wrote:
      >Maybe if it uses special ammo (primer + bb pellet or such)

      That's how the original .22 rimfire (now called the ``Short'') was created. Since then it's been switched over to a smaller quantity of primer and a light charge of powder, since powder is less expensive than primer.

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
  24. Not just pressure, but heat by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 1

    Setting off a cartridge is a bit like touching a blowtorch to the barrel.

    Everyone I've talked to with gunsmithing or general materials engineering knowledge thinks an ABS barrel is not worth trying.

    1. Re:Not just pressure, but heat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Setting off a cartridge is a bit like touching a blowtorch to the barrel.

      Everyone I've talked to with gunsmithing or general materials engineering knowledge thinks an ABS barrel is not worth trying.

      To be fair gunsmiths and engineers probably don't think a "one shot without catastrophic failure" gun is worth building. The people 3-D printing guns on the other hand look at that as an accomplishment because it's an improvement over the "one explosion in your hand" state of the art.

  25. Handheld plastic grenade by dbIII · · Score: 1

    Unless the charge is very small it's a handheld plastic grenade that just happens to be shaped like a gun - ABS is very brittle.

    1. Re:Handheld plastic grenade by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      ABS is not "very brittle" I use it quite regularly. It is very very strong. 2mm or so will support my 113kg self. what it is though is soft and pliable. I wouldn't chose it for making a gun.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
  26. I know what I'm thinking. by WinstonWolfIT · · Score: 5, Funny

    I know what I'm thinking. "Did I fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is plastic gun, and if it backfires it will likely blow my head clean off, I've got to ask myself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do I, moron?

  27. I want a 3D printING gun by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 3, Funny

    I want a 3D printing gun. *pow* Hoberman sphere! *pow* Strandbeest! *pow* 3D printing gun!

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    1. Re:I want a 3D printING gun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You kid, but one's coming. There was a HUGE kickstarter for it (asked for 30k, got $2.5m).
      3Doodler. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1351910088/3doodler-the-worlds-first-3d-printing-pen

    2. Re:I want a 3D printING gun by White+Flame · · Score: 1

      Here's a 3d-printing pen that you could probably mod to be gun-shaped.

  28. pun for the title by Forget4it · · Score: 1

    That would be quick on the draw then.

    --
    Artificial intelligence is the study of how to make real computers act like the ones in the movies.
  29. Airport Security? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I imagine that the first "threat" as a result of this is going to be the TSA worried about people sneaking plastic guns through screeners. Sure you still have to somehow get a few rounds of ammo and the metal firing pin though the scanners, but compared to trying to get a normal weapon though this is going to be considerably easier to sneak though. I am curious what the TSA will do once this becomes more of a reality for them.

  30. If every Boston marathon runner had a gun... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...they'd be safe, right?

    The National Rifle Association in America will be preparing its statement. Each time a nutcase goes berserk with a gun, the NRA insists that this proves everyone should have a gun, so in a couple of days it'll announce that the only way to respond to events in Boston is for every citizen to have a nail bomb. In particular, marathon runners, instead of taking a bottle of water and a sponge at each stage of the race, which are useless in the fight against international terrorism, should be handed a grenade and a flamethrower.

    The logic of the lobby that last week defeated the attempt to introduce gun controls must be that this is the only way to keep marathons safe. It might be trickier with sprint races, as the starting gun would go off and every runner would instinctively shoot at the poor sod who fired it, which might make race-starting a difficult post to fill. But the right to carry a nail bomb is surely a constitutional right of every US citizen.

    People such as the pro-gun campaigners exhibit a special sort of genius. At a time such as last weekend, when you wouldn't think you could feel anything but sympathy for Americans, they manage to make you think: "Mind you, quite a few of them are bloody creepy." For example, on the night that the surviving bomber was captured, you might expect a mood of sombre relief. But CNN showed cheering crowds, and the reporter described the atmosphere as " elated, excited and jubilant". Then we saw them chanting "U-S-A, U-S-A", and some of them let off fireworks.

    Maybe the anxiety had disturbed them and caused them to get the capture of a lunatic mixed up with New Year's Eve. Perhaps the same thing happened here, so that when Raoul Moat was shot the local community held hands and sang "Auld Lang Syne" and snogged their next door neighbour. "We got 'em, we GOT 'EM," roared a series of men, waving flags into cameras as if they'd won an Olympic medal. And once the story wasn't so much a human tragedy as a triumph for the USA, I couldn't help thinking "Oh, you ARE masterful aren't you, managing with no more resources than the army, SWAT teams, marines, an assortment of helicopters, the FBI and the entire population of Boston to track down a lunatic covered in blood who'd been shot through the neck and was wriggling about in a boat in someone's garden. I wonder who you'll meet in the SECOND round of the World Hide and Seek championships."

    The strangest part is that this excitement doesn't usually happen on the occasions that a madman in America gets captured after going on the rampage in a school or shopping centre with the machine-guns he's constitutionally entitled to carry. For example, there were no joyous celebrations when James Holmes was captured after blasting 12 people dead in a cinema in Denver. I suppose that, unlike in Boston, the people of Denver just aren't party-going types. Or it could be that there's a rule that the capture of a dangerous criminal is only a victory for America if the criminal can be portrayed as not American. Because if you're going to go on a killing spree in America, you should at least have the decency to be American. There must be some people saying: "It's a disgrace. These Chechen lunatics are coming over here taking our lunatics' jobs."

    When it was known the bombers were nice and foreign, the fun could start. Bob Beckel, a reporter on Fox News, informed viewers this was the time to "cut off Muslim students from coming into the country". The New America Foundation in Washington, which influences the government, declared that the problem was whether Muslims see themselves as "Americans first or Muslims first". New York Senator Steve King was one of many who concluded: "We must increase surveillance amongst Muslims."

    But Adam Lanza, who went nuts in December with a gun in a school in Connecticut, was said to be from a "good Christian family".

    1. Re:If every Boston marathon runner had a gun... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Do you realize that Bob Beckel is a very big supporter of Obama. He goes against nearly every other person on Fox News so maybe he had a point other than "ban muslims because they are muslim." His point seemed to be that we need to stop letting them come over until we have a better way of knowing what they are doing when they travel back and forth like those two did. (one of them anyway).

      I seem to remember be very disgusted at the site of a bunch of Brits partying it up when a former Prime Minister of theirs died a few weeks ago. Having a good ol' time they were. Almost like the munhckins in the Wizard of Oz they were.

      As for no cheering after Holmes was caught in Denver. He was caught immediately and didn't shut the city down so there wasn't quite the same sense of relief. Some of my circle of acquaintances were disappointed that he wasn't just killed but he surrendered to quickly. Another difference is that the police were actually on scene enforcing crowd control and seemingly also enforcing the weapons ban at the theater. They sort of failed that one. Oh yeah, the other thing. He wasn't a foreigner committing an act or war against the country. (yes. the Tarnaevs were naturalized citizens but it didn't take and they reverted back.)

      Same for Lanza except the police already being there.

      As for the giving blood being a different America... are you certain that it was two different groups with no overlap? You are probably very mistaken in that belief.

    2. Re:If every Boston marathon runner had a gun... by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 1

      Excellent straw man. Since no pro-gun advocate believes or has said that about the marathon, why not just turn to the anti-gun propaganda machine to put words in the other sides' mouths?

      Seems like a good argument technique. If you are an idiot.

      --
      while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
  31. Bunch of Mouth Breathing Idiots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On /. spouting off their anti-gun rhetoric. What happens when technology catches up and this ancient crude firing pin primer propellant charge mechanism is replaced with more advanced energy based weapons? Human kind is still very uncivilized(in fact a very large amount of them really suck) and yes the right to protect oneself, loved ones and property is a human right. It is also my opinion(supported by first hand experience) that many who would want very strict gun laws are also the type that would walk out of their employers place of business with anything that wasn't nailed down or currently being used to provide them a paycheck. The other type of anti-gun filth are the ones that aren't really interested in protecting personal freedoms in the long run providing that they are still part of the group in power. In fact a truly open transparent civilized free society probably scares the living shit out of many anti-gun nuts.

  32. Re:then he's going to get sued to oblivion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And my guess would be that he's going to get himself thrown in jail for ignoring the laws around selling them even though he does have the license.

    Arrogant dicks have a habit of doing that; unless they're in the banking industry.

  33. Re:then he's going to get sued to oblivion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He has no plans to sell them. In fact Cody has stated this. He got the license so that he can manufacturer types of firearms that do not currently exist. Otherwise he'd have to stick with existing designs.

  34. Re:then he's going to get sued to oblivion by Broken+scope · · Score: 1

    Then he doesn't understand the law at all. You can make your own original design and build it so long as you aren't selling it.

    --
    You mad
  35. 3D printer won't be banned by mastertigurius · · Score: 1

    I don't believe 3D printers would ever be banned, based on the principle of technology we're using every day.
    The Internet is an information super highway for any illegal activity imaginable, ranging widely between the sale of drugs, human trafficking, contract killings and child pornography to international terrorism. Banning the Internet would only cause people to get creative elsewhere, which would be impossible to control. Same with 3D printers.

    I expect that governments would much prefer to watch certain flagged webspaces where they know people can obtain dangerous blueprints for their printers, or require users to register their printers at the time of purchase.

    1. Re:3D printer won't be banned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I expect that governments would much prefer to watch certain flagged webspaces where they know people can obtain dangerous blueprints for their printers, or require users to register their printers at the time of purchase."

      Which reminds me of Poland under communist rule - Privately owned copy-machines were outlawed.
      Privately owned typewriters were registered in East-Germany with a sample page of typing taken just in case the owner should start typing Undesirable texts. Democratic people smuggled in printing shops and paper. I know one of them.

      "Knowing that all East German typewriters are registered, Dreyman uses a miniature typewriter smuggled in from West Germany, which he hides under the floorboards in his apartment."
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lives_of_Others

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi_Museum
      The communists are still walking the streets of Berlin - Unpunished.
      I am not into forgiveness - These people are Unforgiven.

  36. Re:then he's going to get sued to oblivion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Making guns is not illegal. I'm allow to build as many guns as I want. In fact, guns I build don't even need serial numbers or identifying marks. If I transfer the gun (sell or give) then it's illegal.

  37. Printed Mini-Tank Prototype by Dareth · · Score: 1

    Let me know if they make "mini" printed Abrams battle tank prototype. I would love to give that to my daughter!

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
    1. Re:Printed Mini-Tank Prototype by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      I did see a pink toy sherman tank at a toy discount store a while back. I thought that was cute.

    2. Re:Printed Mini-Tank Prototype by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      Let me know if they make "mini" printed Abrams battle tank prototype. I would love to give that to my daughter!

      Killdozer

      No main gun and egress was horrible, but capable enough for a prototype.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
  38. A valuable contribution - by Darth+Snowshoe · · Score: 1

    What would be nice would be if the NRA came down on these people. Really, the NRA represents the gun-making and gun-selling industry. It's in their interest to prevent everybody from being able to make guns for basically free, with the ease with which they might toast a pop-tart.

    Here's a valuable contribution the NRA could be making to society. They should lobby, lobby, lobby that Cody and "Defense Distributed" are violating our 2nd Amendment rights. Seriously - "keep and bear arms". Says nothing about "making arms" or "printing arms" or "creating arms".

  39. How long before the definition of gun changes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How long before the definition of gun changes? That's all I can think of. I can see laws being made saying that if it's not manufactured a certain way or have X% of something in the case it's not to be considered a gun and is regulated diffrently.

  40. Not sued... arrested by mynameiskhan · · Score: 1

    "I can sell some of the pieces that we've been making" Hope he has a license to do so. As per, http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/general.html#gca-manufacturing ->> With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semi-automatic rifle or non-sporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machine gun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a Federal or State agency. [18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105]

  41. $10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    $10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski

    * POOR SHOWING TROLLS , & most especially IF that's the "best you've got" - apparently, it is... lol!

    Hello, and THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING !! We have a Major Problem, HOST file is Cubic Opposites, 2 Major Corners & 2 Minor. NOT taught Evil DNS hijacking, which VOIDS computers. Seek Wisdom of MyCleanPC - or you die evil.

    Your HOSTS file claimed to have created a single DNS resolver. I offer absolute proof that I have created 4 simultaneous DNS servers within a single rotation of .org TLD. You worship "Bill Gates", equating you to a "singularity bastard". Why do you worship a queer -1 Troll? Are you content as a singularity troll?

    Evil HOSTS file Believers refuse to acknowledge 4 corner DNS resolving simultaneously around 4 quadrant created Internet - in only 1 root server, voiding the HOSTS file. You worship Microsoft impostor guised by educators as 1 god.

    If you would acknowledge simple existing math proof that 4 harmonic Slashdots rotate simultaneously around squared equator and cubed Internet, proving 4 Days, Not HOSTS file! That exists only as anti-side. This page you see - cannot exist without its anti-side existence, as +0- moderation. Add +0- as One = nothing.

    I will give $10,000.00 to frost pister who can disprove MyCleanPC. Evil crapflooders ignore this as a challenge would indict them.

    Alex Kowalski has no Truth to think with, they accept any crap they are told to think. You are enslaved by /etc/hosts, as if domesticated animal. A school or educator who does not teach students MyCleanPC Principle, is a death threat to youth, therefore stupid and evil - begetting stupid students. How can you trust stupid PR shills who lie to you? Can't lose the $10,000.00, they cowardly ignore me. Stupid professors threaten Nature and Interwebs with word lies.

    Humans fear to know natures simultaneous +4 Insightful +4 Informative +4 Funny +4 Underrated harmonic SLASHDOT creation for it debunks false trolls. Test Your HOSTS file. MyCleanPC cannot harm a File of Truth, but will delete fakes. Fake HOSTS files refuse test.

    I offer evil ass Slashdot trolls $10,000.00 to disprove MyCleanPC Creation Principle. Rob Malda and Cowboy Neal have banned MyCleanPC as "Forbidden Truth Knowledge" for they cannot allow it to become known to their students. You are stupid and evil about the Internet's top and bottom, front and back and it's 2 sides. Most everything created has these Cube like values.

    If Natalie Portman is not measurable, hot grits are Fictitious. Without MyCleanPC, HOSTS file is Fictitious. Anyone saying that Natalie and her Jewish father had something to do with my Internets, is a damn evil liar. IN addition to your best arsware not overtaking my work in terms of popularity, on that same site with same submission date no less, that I told Kathleen Malda how to correct her blatant, fundamental, HUGE errors in Coolmon ('uncoolmon') of not checking for performance counters being present when his program started!

    You can see my dilemma. What if this is merely a ruse by an APK impostor to try and get people to delete APK's messages, perhaps all over the web? I can't be a party to such an event! My involvement with APK began at a very late stage in the game. While APK has made a career of trolling popular online forums since at least the year 2000 (newsgroups and IRC channels before that)- my involvement with APK did not begin until early 2005 . OSY is one of the many forums that APK once frequented before the sane people there grew tired of his garbage and banned him. APK was banned from OSY back in 2001. 3.5 years after his ba

  42. Jumping the gun? by csumpi · · Score: 1

    No pun intended, but I don't get what the big fuss is all about.

    a) We can still buy ball bearings, nails, fireworks (in some states), batteries, garage door remotes and pressure cookers even though two shitheads killed 3 people and injured over 200 using those items. You can go to home dipshits and buy all the tools and materials needed to make a weapon. So it's highly unlikely that 3d printing will be banned.

    b) Can we just see what this dude comes up with first? If it's all made of ABS, it will be either extremely unsafe to use, or it might just fire some plastic blobs 10 feet, which would make it less harmful than a pellet gun or hell, even something from toys'r'us. This dude is obviously just enjoying his 15 minutes of fame. How about we just ignore him?

  43. Whoop-de-do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And a zip gun can be made easily enough by someone who really wants a gun, but doesn't have thousands of dollars for a 3-d printer, not the knowledge to print one.

    And while we're at it, we have the highest death-by-firearm rate in all of the first and second world - go ahead, tell me Australia, or the UK, or France is less "free" than we are. Prove it.

    I propose manditorily treating guns *exactly* like cars, including licensing and insurance.

                        mark

    1. Re:Whoop-de-do by CrashPoint · · Score: 1

      And a zip gun can be made easily enough by someone who really wants a gun, but doesn't have thousands of dollars for a 3-d printer, not the knowledge to print one.

      The cost and knowledge barriers for building a zip gun are relatively static. Those same barriers for 3D printing are dropping rapidly. Within a decade, it will be easier and cheaper to print a gun than build one from scratch, and the end product will be much more reliable.

      And while we're at it, we have the highest death-by-firearm rate in all of the first and second world

      The cause of which is not guns. Violent crime is driven primarily by poverty and mental health issues; we need to be addressing those problems rather than waste time on crusades against inanimate objects.

      go ahead, tell me Australia, or the UK, or France is less "free" than we are. Prove it.

      Off the top of my head:
      Australia's government takes it upon itself to decide what movies you can watch and games you can play. Note that Australia's constitution doesn't even name a right to free speech.
      The UK's libel laws are notorious for the burden they place upon defendants. Even when the allegations are objectively, provably true.
      France passed a law banning "any visible sign of religious affiliation". No points for guessing who that's really aimed at. But I'll give you a hint: it rhymes with "Buslims".

      And then of course, you have good old Switzerland, with its high rate of gun ownership yet low rate of violent crime, refuting by virtue of its mere existence the simplistic assumption that guns create crime.

      I propose manditorily treating guns *exactly* like cars, including licensing and insurance.

      In CCW states, that is already the case. I'm sorry, did you think you needed a license just to own a car in the US?

    2. Re:Whoop-de-do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The cost and knowledge barriers for building a zip gun are relatively static. Those same barriers for 3D printing are dropping rapidly. Within a decade, it will be easier and cheaper to print a gun than build one from scratch, and the end product will be much more reliable."

      There is always the hybrid solution.
      Vital parts can be made in metal and the rest in plastic. Much like a Glock of today.

  44. You are not that stupid so stop it by dbIII · · Score: 1
    How the fuck do you get this:

    I assume you mean bolt/pump/lever-action - that replaced semi-autos are just as dangerous?

    From my comment here?

    There are just as many guns in Australia as there were before the buyback but they are of different types.

    Clearly you are just pretending to be very stupid in order to play a petty and childish little game at my expense. Although you may not be so bright since you've been taken in by the gun as a substitute penis with a flag tattooed on the side NRA propaganda you are obviously not so stupid as you pretend. Fuck off and use a local example for your childish justification of your toys without responsibility and don't pick on a country where we use them responsibly as tools instead.

  45. Do you still think I don't know what you are doing by dbIII · · Score: 1

    The decline is because of various efforts over the last generation and not by magic.

    I know that doesn't help your pathetic little line of "kids are just going to have to die in massacres - Australia tried to do something but it didn't help so let's just do nothing, keep using overpowered guns as toys, and be cowards avoiding all responsibility".

    Well we did try to do something, and we've been trying since before you or I were born, and it has worked, so piss off with your cowardly bullshit pretending it hasn't. Just because the NRA lost their balls doesn't mean you have to cut yours off too.

    There's a good reason why we send military doctors to your adopted country to get experience treating gunshot wounds. I'm sure you can work out why.

  46. ooh ooh i read this one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Weapon Shops of Linux! It was awesome.

  47. Me too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm currently beta testing my process to 3D print a pointy sharp thing you can poke people with.

  48. I hope he restricts his printout to himself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The United States has approximately 85 gun deaths a week. Its around 3000 per year.
    If you exclude all the waring nations (Syria, North Korea, etc.), thats more than the total of the rest of the world by about 2000 deaths.
    So, here is a unwell meaning jerk that wants to show how to print a gun. Who buys the printers? Terrorists, Mafia, small hoodlims who band together to make a throwaway gun once it was used.

    America, whats wrong with you? The second amendment was to fight the British, hunt for game, and protection from Indian raiders and rustlers. But we are civilized now, with no more wilderness to conquer.

  49. Guns, plastic or otherwise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    gosgog:
      Gun control, lets do it properly....How, get rid of Physyciatrists & physycologists! Look, less cars, less car crashes, basic logic right!
    So, less school murders from the unbalanced, less Physyciatrists & physycologists!, less kukoos to do it

  50. Why 3D Printed firearms frustrate the hell out of by guinea+pig+C · · Score: 1

    A couple of months ago I worked really hard to research, write and independently publish an ebook on 3D printing, aimed at ordinary computer users. I made it easy to read, tried to be as imaginative as I could about all the different uses, and endeavoured to fill the book with useful, practical information. I even kept the price down to an absolute minimum ($3.49), just a fraction of the cost of my nearest competitor. I would have liked to have made it free, under a creative commons licence, but, after all, a man has got to eat. Since its release, I have worked hard on promotion, sending out review copies to anybody that showed an interest, as well as making a fair few clumsy mistakes in trying to obtain some free publicity. After all, it was my first attempt at self publishing. Most of all, I wanted to share my experience and enthusiasm with 3D printers, and counter all the articles that describe this technology as a fad, or simply over-hyped. Now Cody Wilson, on the other hand, only has to fart, and the media are all over it, giving him miles of column space, even though my dog probably has more creative flair than this gun obsessed redneck. Now, do not get me wrong, I am as anarchist as the next man (especially if that next man happens to be a noted MIT Professor ;-)), but it it is really getting me down that I am spending so long trying to get my work noticed, while some idiot, who wants to jeopardise the entire 3D printing industry, seems to get more press attention than the leader of North Korea. At the moment, I am working on an updated edition of the ebook. That may seem fast, but this technology is evolving much faster than most of us expected. My own makerbot experiments are going really well, but my enthusiasm is being hammered every time I read the latest news splash in the wiki weapon saga. What am I doing wrong? Am I banging my head against a brick wall? Am I destined to remain in obscurity while some upstart gun-nut steals the show?

  51. Guns? I'm waiting for nukes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As the saying goes, guns make all men equal. a 60yr old man with a limp and a pistol is just as likely to win a fight as an equally armed 20yr old intruder.

    As the more accurate saying goes, "Guns not only allow anyone to kill instantly, with ease, and regularly unintentionally, they make even the most good natured a little power mad, thirsty for violence, and filled with painful memories of every slight, insult, or offence they've ever been made to bear and the hunger for vengence which comes along with them."

    Yes, truly the world would be a better place if it were easier for anyone and everyone to kill with ease.

    Which brings me to my real point. How long is it gonna take for us to get 3d printers capable of making nuclear warheads??? I'd like to be able to insert some stolen radioactive material and be good to go.

      These nuclear proferation treaties are so harmful and i long for the day when every man, woman, and child above the age of 14 is capable of killing everyone within at least a mile radius should they feel threatened or angry or just particularly anti-social. Think what a peaceful world that would be!! The threat of mass annialation should deter most communities from messing with you but should one cause a problem, you can kill them all with ease. And for the softies among us, it could be placed on the outskirts of a city so as not to kill everyone dead immedietely, but simply irradiate them and maybe destroy some infrastructure thus wounding them and teaching them a lesson.

  52. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion