SANFORD, Fla. — The controversy surrounding the shooting death of teenager Trayvon Martin took a new turn Monday when the Orlando Sentinel reported Neighborhood Watch volunteer George Zimmerman told police Martin decked him with a single punch, then repeatedly slammed his head into the sidewalk.
The Sentinel said much of Zimmerman's account had been corroborated by witnesses, according to authorities.
In addition, an eyewitness, 13-year-old Austin Brown, told police he saw a man fitting Zimmerman's description lying on the grass moaning and crying for help just seconds before he heard the gunshot that killed Martin.
The initial police report noted that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of the head and nose, and after medical attention it was decided that he was in good enough condition to travel in a police cruiser to the Sanford, Fla., police station for questioning. He was not arrested.
Martin's girlfriend had said in a recording obtained exclusively by ABC News that she heard Martin ask Zimmerman "why are your following me, and then the man asked, what are you doing around here." She then heard a scuffle break out and the line went dead.
Oh, and the whole fight happened on the grass.
Intesting, in light of the police report:
police report that states Zimmerman was injured and treated at the scene:
"While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head. . . .
Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD.
Note - "his back appeared to be wet and covered in grass" Hmmmm Grass for the back, concrete for the head.
Besides, the police let him go BEFORE there were any eyewitness reports.
Read the police report at the link. It is clear that the police at least knew who was there as they took names. Do you think they stopped at just taking names after someone was shot?
Martin, at 6'3" and 160 lbs was well within the normal range for BMI. Calculate it yourself.
One or more eye witnesses saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. And note the police report:
police report that states Zimmerman was injured and treated at the scene:
"While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head. . . .
Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD.
Note - "his back appeared to be wet and covered in grass" Hmmmm
And yet the police report notes that Zimmerman had grass stains on his back, and injuries to the back of his head. One or more eye witnesses saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. (The power of a sucker punch?)
police report that states Zimmerman was injured and treated at the scene:
"While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head. . . .
Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD.
"his back appeared to be wet and covered in grass" Hmmmm
Also note that Martin's BMI would have been 20, which is well within the normal range.
Legally Martin wasn't a "child", he was a minor. And no, he didn't meet the definition of a child in American society either. He would be considered a young adult. 18yr old is legally an adult, and 17 isn't that far off. Now, if you think the 6'3" Martin was a "child", you either have a defective view of childhood, or are being disingenuous.
The 6'3" young adult, Martin, left his mark on Zimmerman.
police report that states Zimmerman was injured and treated at the scene:
"While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head. . . .
Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD.
Note - "his back appeared to be wet and covered in grass" Hmmmm
So, who was trying to injure, if not murder, again?
police report that states Zimmerman was injured and treated at the scene:
"While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head. . . .
Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD.
Note - "his back appeared to be wet and covered in grass" Hmmmm
How convenient, I just happened to have this in a handy buffer:
police report that states he was injured and treated at the scene:
"While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head. . . .
Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD.
Also note - "back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass"
"While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head. . . .
Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD.
You'll also note that it documents Zimmerman's need to do laundry due to the grass stains on his back.
href="http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf">police report that states he was injured and treated at the scene:
"While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head. . . .
Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD.
It isn't "evil-communists", it is evil communists. Communism killed 100,000,000 people in the last 100 years. Read some reviews if you don't read the book.
How many things actually happened in the entire history of commercial flights before the TSA existed? And why do they still exist in light of that? Sheesh.
Highjackings became a significant problem in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, although they still occur from time to time. Various militant groups, including Palestinian and Communist terrorist organizations, we commonly involved. The rate slowly considerably as airports put in metal detectors, started searching bags, sky marshals took to the air, and police forces with automatic weapons started patrolling the airports. (Sound familiar?) The occasional commando force storming a plane and killing the hijackers also helped dampen the enthusiasm for it, not the mention the famous Operation Thunderbolt - the raid on Entebbe.
That is why you don't keep seeing headlines like these so often:
ROME — Two terrorist teams firing assault rifles and throwing grenades struck minutes apart at the international airports in Rome and Vienna early Friday, leaving 17 dead, including an 11-year-old American girl and three other Americans. At least 116 people were wounded in the bloody attacks.
Officials and eyewitnesses said the attacks appeared aimed at facilities of El Al, the Israeli national airline. Meir Rosenne, Israel's ambassador to the United States, blamed the Palestine Liberation Organization for the slaughter. PLO officials in Vienna, Rome and at PLO headquarters in Tunis, Tunisia, denied responsibility and condemned the attacks.
In Spain, a caller claiming to belong to the "Abu Nidal group," a breakaway faction of the PLO blamed for many earlier terrorist assaults in Europe, telephoned a radio station in Malaga, claiming responsibility for the attacks in the name of his group. There was no way to confirm the claim.
Abu Nidal has been described as a bitter opponent of PLO leader Yasser Arafat, who he is said to consider to be overly moderate in the Arab-Israeli conflict. . . . more
The TSA is the inverse of the Bureau of Prisons. Guards from the Bureau of Prisons keep convicts in the prison, TSA pretty much keeps armed, dangerous people off planes. It's not impossible to get a weapon past BoP guards, or TSA screeners. Nor is it impossible escape from prison or get past the TSA screeners and agents. What they both do is raise the degree of difficulty such that a planned escape / attack is much more likely to be discovered in some fashion before it is executed and disrupted in some fashion, frustrating the plan.
What happens when you take the guards out of a prision?
TSA's mission is deterrence, and handling incidents when deterrence fails.
On a typical day TSA finds 4 guns and various assorted weapons that would have made it onto a plane if people weren't being screened.
There is no "evidence" he was treated for any injury.
Yes, there is. It is directly stated in the police report. The fact that you don't believe it doesn't change anything. The police report would be accepted as evidence in court. The lack of a paramedics report specifying the bandages used on what wound doesn't change anything.
The police report that states he was injured and treated at the scene:
"While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head. . . .
Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD.
Plus, you are so interested in minutia, you miss the point that a white man (well, whitish, as he identifies as a white hispanic, having a white father and hispanic mother) holding a smoking gun standing over a black man is questioned and released, never arrested or charged. If the situation were reversed, then there would be a separate set of rules applied.
Zimmerman was taken into custody to the police station in hand cuffs and questioned. He was then released. Since it was apparently a justifiable self-defense shooting he wouldn't be charged. You don't get charged when the shooting is deemed justified under the law. I don't know how that could be any clearer. This might change since there is apparently going to be a special prosecutor appointed to look into this and I wouldn't deny the possibility of something being trumped up to charge him with as a result of Al Sharpton's agitation and various riots. Or maybe there are really new facts that would show that Zimmerman broke the law somehow - but do you think having thousands of people protesting, riots, and death threats inspired by the Black Panthers is really how this should be handled? The biggest impact of race in this case is Al Sharpton and company, and groups like the Black Panthers injecting themselves into the controversy.
How about the surveillance video from the police station showing Zimmerman with no injuries after he was brought in? If his head was slammed into concrete such that he was at risk of dying, you would have been able to see it half an hour later. Here's the link you asked for. [cbslocal.com] I bet you don't even view it - you've already made up your mind.
Yes, I've seen that video. Now I've got a few things for you.
When the 6'3" (1.9m) tall Martin slammed Zimmerman's head into the concrete, it represented a lethal danger, not actual damage. It is like you playing in traffic on a freeway that doesn't stop - you are in danger of being hit and killed, but you aren't dead yet. Martin banged up Zimmerman, but didn't inflict mortal damage to him. Understand the difference?
Here is the police report that states he was injured and treated at the scene:
"While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head. . . .
Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD.
Now that you have direct police testimony (go ahead, download the original), and a different view, you're left with a question - what do you believe now, and why? If you believe Zimmerman wasn't injured, you're simply wrong.
Well maybe I WANT to YELL so the people who just arent UNDERSTANDING can realize why Zimmerman is in the wrong here, and will be prosecuted and found guilty.
There is another possibility - you don't have the facts right, you don't have the law right, and you might end up being terribly disappointed.
Or the government will be overthrown, and the guy tried and convicted outside of the court system. It's down to that, basically.
So if the fate of one person in one incident among what will probably be 2,600 black men killed this year isn't to be tried and convicted according to your say so, the government should be overthrown and vigilante justice rules? Basically, in spirit, you're a bigger threat to society than either Zimmerman or Martin.... lovely.
You know that Martin was just kicked out of school for marijuana possession? What's your deal?
Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. You are effectively claiming that the police looked into the future and made false statements on the report for a crime that wasn't controversial at the time, or that they doctored or replace an existing report. Evidence? Did they convince the Fire Department members to lie? You are the one making the claim - provide some evidence.
Watch the fucking video [youtube.com] and decide for yourself if this dude looks like hes just had his head smashed and beaten into pavement.
It's pretty silly when DA is the sole person to judge whether he has "sufficient evidence" - it's practically a get of of jail card for anyone he decides to not prosecute.
That is the way the law works, and has worked, for a very long time. It won't be changed for this case.
A guy has been killed, and it is claimed that he was murdered, with some evidence corroborating that version.
The more I look the more it appears that there is little if any evidence to support that, including some links you provided in another post. (I'll get back to those.)
If there isn't even a trial to refute those claims, I'd say that justice failed him.
If you can't provide evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, the standard needed for conviction, there is no sense in holding a trial as it will be an expensive waste of time, and an oppressive burden on a likely innocent man. Criminal trials aren't trivial experiments to impose on people on a whim.
I don't give a shit about anything else. Zimmerman can tell his story to a Judge, and if the Judge buys his motion to dismiss, then so be it.
Sorry, but you are skipping an important part of the process - the prosecutor's decision. The prosecutor decides if the case goes to trial, not the judge. The prosecutor decides if there is evidence of a crime, and if there is enough evidence to go to trial and get a conviction. The judge only gets to hear what the prosecutor puts before him. If the prosecutor evaluates the evidence and decides that the evidence shows justifiable self-defense, then he will probably decline to prosecute and there is no case, no trial. That is the end of it. If you don't like that, tough, that's the way the law works regardless of your feelings.
Slashdot Mirror
Trayvon Martin's killer claims teen punched him, slammed his head into ground
Trayvon Martin Shooter Told Cops Teenager Went For His Gun
Oh, and the whole fight happened on the grass.
Intesting, in light of the police report:
police report that states Zimmerman was injured and treated at the scene:
Note - "his back appeared to be wet and covered in grass" Hmmmm Grass for the back, concrete for the head.
Besides, the police let him go BEFORE there were any eyewitness reports.
Read the police report at the link. It is clear that the police at least knew who was there as they took names. Do you think they stopped at just taking names after someone was shot?
A yound adult who was still legally a minor, not a kid. 6'3" and 160 lbs is well into normal BMI range. Calculate it yourself.
Martin, at 6'3" and 160 lbs was well within the normal range for BMI. Calculate it yourself.
One or more eye witnesses saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. And note the police report:
police report that states Zimmerman was injured and treated at the scene:
Note - "his back appeared to be wet and covered in grass" Hmmmm
Could you also arrange for one or more witnesses to see your victim on top of you while you yelp for help? You'll need that to replicate this case.
Bingo.
The Self-Refuting Expert Witness The Orlando Sentinel Is Touting
And 160 lbs at 6'3 is so skinny as to be a total non-threat.
6'3" and 160 lbs is well within normal for BMI. Calulate it for yourself.
Normal people can be dangerous when they decide to be.
And yet the police report notes that Zimmerman had grass stains on his back, and injuries to the back of his head. One or more eye witnesses saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. (The power of a sucker punch?)
police report that states Zimmerman was injured and treated at the scene:
"his back appeared to be wet and covered in grass" Hmmmm
Also note that Martin's BMI would have been 20, which is well within the normal range.
Legally Martin wasn't a "child", he was a minor. And no, he didn't meet the definition of a child in American society either. He would be considered a young adult. 18yr old is legally an adult, and 17 isn't that far off. Now, if you think the 6'3" Martin was a "child", you either have a defective view of childhood, or are being disingenuous.
The 6'3" young adult, Martin, left his mark on Zimmerman.
police report that states Zimmerman was injured and treated at the scene:
Note - "his back appeared to be wet and covered in grass" Hmmmm
So, who was trying to injure, if not murder, again?
Martin left his mark.
police report that states Zimmerman was injured and treated at the scene:
Note - "his back appeared to be wet and covered in grass" Hmmmm
How convenient, I just happened to have this in a handy buffer:
police report that states he was injured and treated at the scene:
Also note - "back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass"
There is no evidence that #3 occured.
Other than eye witnesses that saw Martin on top of Zimmerman and the police report that noted Zimmerman's injuries, maybe not.
Police report documenting Zimmerman's injuries:
You'll also note that it documents Zimmerman's need to do laundry due to the grass stains on his back.
href="http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf">police report that states he was injured and treated at the scene:
What if one of them has a Stinger launcher left over from when we gave them to the then-"freedom-fighter" Taliban to fight the then-"evil-communists"?
The Stinger missiles are all past their expiration date. . . long past.
However, that sort of thing has happened.
It isn't "evil-communists", it is evil communists. Communism killed 100,000,000 people in the last 100 years. Read some reviews if you don't read the book.
How many things actually happened in the entire history of commercial flights before the TSA existed? And why do they still exist in light of that? Sheesh.
Highjackings became a significant problem in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, although they still occur from time to time. Various militant groups, including Palestinian and Communist terrorist organizations, we commonly involved. The rate slowly considerably as airports put in metal detectors, started searching bags, sky marshals took to the air, and police forces with automatic weapons started patrolling the airports. (Sound familiar?) The occasional commando force storming a plane and killing the hijackers also helped dampen the enthusiasm for it, not the mention the famous Operation Thunderbolt - the raid on Entebbe.
That is why you don't keep seeing headlines like these so often:
Mexico Police Storm Hijacked Airplane, Free Crew
17 Killed in Airport Raids by Terrorists at Rome, Vienna : 116 Wounded in Attacks Apparently Aimed at El Al; Palestinians Blamed
December 28, 1985
The terrorist I knew - Christopher Hitchens sheds no tears for Abu Nidal, but admits to a small twinge of nostalgia.
The official story - that he had shot himself several times in the head . . .
Abu Nidal Organization (ANO), aka Fatah Revolutionary Council, the Arab Revolutionary Brigades, or the Revolutionary Organization of Socialist Muslims
Belgium: Murders committed for Abu Nidal
The TSA is the inverse of the Bureau of Prisons. Guards from the Bureau of Prisons keep convicts in the prison, TSA pretty much keeps armed, dangerous people off planes. It's not impossible to get a weapon past BoP guards, or TSA screeners. Nor is it impossible escape from prison or get past the TSA screeners and agents. What they both do is raise the degree of difficulty such that a planned escape / attack is much more likely to be discovered in some fashion before it is executed and disrupted in some fashion, frustrating the plan.
What happens when you take the guards out of a prision?
TSA's mission is deterrence, and handling incidents when deterrence fails.
On a typical day TSA finds 4 guns and various assorted weapons that would have made it onto a plane if people weren't being screened.
Try 150-160 lbs. Wiry is one way he might be described.
There is no "evidence" he was treated for any injury.
Yes, there is. It is directly stated in the police report. The fact that you don't believe it doesn't change anything. The police report would be accepted as evidence in court. The lack of a paramedics report specifying the bandages used on what wound doesn't change anything.
The police report that states he was injured and treated at the scene:
Plus, you are so interested in minutia, you miss the point that a white man (well, whitish, as he identifies as a white hispanic, having a white father and hispanic mother) holding a smoking gun standing over a black man is questioned and released, never arrested or charged. If the situation were reversed, then there would be a separate set of rules applied.
Zimmerman was taken into custody to the police station in hand cuffs and questioned. He was then released. Since it was apparently a justifiable self-defense shooting he wouldn't be charged. You don't get charged when the shooting is deemed justified under the law. I don't know how that could be any clearer. This might change since there is apparently going to be a special prosecutor appointed to look into this and I wouldn't deny the possibility of something being trumped up to charge him with as a result of Al Sharpton's agitation and various riots. Or maybe there are really new facts that would show that Zimmerman broke the law somehow - but do you think having thousands of people protesting, riots, and death threats inspired by the Black Panthers is really how this should be handled? The biggest impact of race in this case is Al Sharpton and company, and groups like the Black Panthers injecting themselves into the controversy.
No justice, no agitation
How about the surveillance video from the police station showing Zimmerman with no injuries after he was brought in? If his head was slammed into concrete such that he was at risk of dying, you would have been able to see it half an hour later. Here's the link you asked for. [cbslocal.com] I bet you don't even view it - you've already made up your mind.
Yes, I've seen that video. Now I've got a few things for you.
When the 6'3" (1.9m) tall Martin slammed Zimmerman's head into the concrete, it represented a lethal danger, not actual damage. It is like you playing in traffic on a freeway that doesn't stop - you are in danger of being hit and killed, but you aren't dead yet. Martin banged up Zimmerman, but didn't inflict mortal damage to him. Understand the difference?
Here is the police report that states he was injured and treated at the scene:
Police surveillance video of Zimmerman may show head injury
Now that you have direct police testimony (go ahead, download the original), and a different view, you're left with a question - what do you believe now, and why? If you believe Zimmerman wasn't injured, you're simply wrong.
For all we "know" from that report, George could have been spreading dead-man blood on his face and head to feign injury.
Really? Really? I'll let you continue the search for that evidence. Good night.
That broken nose sure did repair itself quickly on the police station CCTV!
Let me guess . . . you think that his nose would fall off if it wasn't taped in place? Broken noses don't work like that.
Is Zimmerman secretly Wolverine?
Are you secretly a troll?
Wait, so Zimmerman has grass stains on the back of his shirt, but his head was being smashed against *concrete*?
Something doesn't add up here.
Something doesn't add up? Yes, I guess not. You really can't count on everyone on Slashdot to think, can you?
I guess you just couldn't figure that sort of thing out without help? But you're probably sure Zimmerman is guilty of something?
Well maybe I WANT to YELL so the people who just arent UNDERSTANDING can realize why Zimmerman is in the wrong here, and will be prosecuted and found guilty.
There is another possibility - you don't have the facts right, you don't have the law right, and you might end up being terribly disappointed.
Or the government will be overthrown, and the guy tried and convicted outside of the court system. It's down to that, basically.
So if the fate of one person in one incident among what will probably be 2,600 black men killed this year isn't to be tried and convicted according to your say so, the government should be overthrown and vigilante justice rules? Basically, in spirit, you're a bigger threat to society than either Zimmerman or Martin.... lovely.
You know that Martin was just kicked out of school for marijuana possession? What's your deal?
Are you claiming it's not?
Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. You are effectively claiming that the police looked into the future and made false statements on the report for a crime that wasn't controversial at the time, or that they doctored or replace an existing report. Evidence? Did they convince the Fire Department members to lie? You are the one making the claim - provide some evidence.
Watch the fucking video [youtube.com] and decide for yourself if this dude looks like hes just had his head smashed and beaten into pavement.
It is already noted in the police report that he was injured, but maybe this will help: Police surveillance video of Zimmerman may show head injury
It's pretty silly when DA is the sole person to judge whether he has "sufficient evidence" - it's practically a get of of jail card for anyone he decides to not prosecute.
That is the way the law works, and has worked, for a very long time. It won't be changed for this case.
A guy has been killed, and it is claimed that he was murdered, with some evidence corroborating that version.
The more I look the more it appears that there is little if any evidence to support that, including some links you provided in another post. (I'll get back to those.)
If there isn't even a trial to refute those claims, I'd say that justice failed him.
If you can't provide evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, the standard needed for conviction, there is no sense in holding a trial as it will be an expensive waste of time, and an oppressive burden on a likely innocent man. Criminal trials aren't trivial experiments to impose on people on a whim.
I don't give a shit about anything else. Zimmerman can tell his story to a Judge, and if the Judge buys his motion to dismiss, then so be it.
Sorry, but you are skipping an important part of the process - the prosecutor's decision. The prosecutor decides if the case goes to trial, not the judge. The prosecutor decides if there is evidence of a crime, and if there is enough evidence to go to trial and get a conviction. The judge only gets to hear what the prosecutor puts before him. If the prosecutor evaluates the evidence and decides that the evidence shows justifiable self-defense, then he will probably decline to prosecute and there is no case, no trial. That is the end of it. If you don't like that, tough, that's the way the law works regardless of your feelings.