without Win3.0, there would never have been any subsequent versions on Windows. And for those of us who were Win3.0 adopters, I can tell you that is was a better OS in terms of cost, hardware, and applications than many of its peers: DOS, Novell, UNIX, MacOS5.
I think we can all agree that actions have consequences, especially in an over-engineered software environment with layers upon layers of APIs and legacy code.
- AH4H
Plan 9 is a radically distributed OS. It was written from conception as a distributed kernel, and all aspects of the OS are distributed in ways that Linux/Unix/Windows are not. It may be older, but it embraces many distributed paradigms that few OS's in production can handle. Because it is so distributed, the many common utils are simply not compatible with the kernel without a ground-up rewrite. Emacs Emacs, X, KDE, Gnome are not ported and probably won't be.
Here's a naive review:
http://www.osnews.com/story.php/15235/Investigatin g-the-Plan-9-Operating-System
What most amateur IT people don't understand is that there is a world of difference between Norton Antivirus, and Symantec Antivirus. As an IT professional who has helped neutralize viruses off of many computers, and who administers a Windows domain (don't hate me), I can say that Symantec Corporate Antivirus works great, is centrally managed, and does what it is supposed to and no more. I've used to for 5 years now and it has successfully prevented numerous virus outbreaks that would have greatly disrupted the Windows workstations I am paid to administer.
If this were a Linux/Mac desktop environment, there would be no need to run an antovirus. But there is critical software that is available only for Windows. And this is what I am paid to keep running.
I administer an Exchange email server for a small company. On average 60% of all our mail is spam and it adds up to several MB of spam per user per week.
If users don't make a daily effort to delete spam, it does fill the email storage.
Spam is more than annoying, it costs money in storage and processing.
You may laugh at the ISP's problem but I have had to manually delete email from user's accounts when they would process their spam. Yes, we have a professional server spam filter, and it works for 99.8% of the time.
Re:Plan 9 deserves $30-$300 million in funding
on
Driving Plan 9
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· Score: 1
Hi Hans, thanks for stopping in.
In your opinion, where do you think an "alternative" OS like Plan 9 would find its niche? If you had $30M to spend on Plan 9, how would you spend it specifically?
Re:To answer some of the authors questions
on
Driving Plan 9
·
· Score: 1
There is one fairly big problem with running the Plan 9 LiveCD. The problem is that you are running as a user that has no access to: a) a persistent file system like/tmp, b) most useful common UNIX tools like ping, emacs, etc, (no path?) c) the user creation app to give yourself more access.
And so if you are running the LiveCD as a newbie you have access to very little of the tools that would really help you understand the true extent of Plan 9. Which is quite deep. Instead you are essentially sitting in a sandbox with no toys to play in the sand. This I think defeats the purpose of what a LiveCD should really do, which is to give you a really good experience, very quickly. I don't think you should have to know the specific paths of various utilities in order to have a good LiveCD experience.
Perhaps in the future there could be a newbie LiveCD which is more like a guided tour, and less like a jail cell.
Re:Plan 9 under Microsoft Virtual Server 2005 R2
on
Driving Plan 9
·
· Score: 1
A problem with MS Virtual PC: At the partdisk prompt I was not able to install a Master Boot Record (mbr) in Virtual PC's virtual disk partition and so the installation stopped dead.
Re:"lacks some graphical refinement"
on
Driving Plan 9
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
More university support for Plan 9 sounds like an excellent idea to further some of the innovative ideas in the OS. U. Calgary has some support as detailed here: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/lanlp9/
Re:Wow, he managed to compile a "Hello, world"
on
Driving Plan 9
·
· Score: 1
Maybe you don't realize that although you can run rio in the LiveCD you easily (or at all, I don't know) write to a persistent file system without a full install. I could not get Plan 9 to install on anything but the ancient Thinkpad, and this did not have a supported VGA. No VESA.
This whole hardware compatibility problem becomes a non-issue if you can get Plan 9 working in a virtualized environment such as VMWare or Microsoft's now free Virtual PC. But apparently there are issues here as well.
I think you missed my point. My point was whether charon runs under Plan 9 without modification or special provisions.
Re:Wow, he managed to compile a "Hello, world"
on
Driving Plan 9
·
· Score: 1
In my defense I state that I couldn't get Plan 9 to completely install on ANY of the 5 systems I had at hand. Without both a compatible graphics card and a compatible NIC I was unable to attach to a grid resource (9grid.de) and actually do some distributed computing. Which was my original goal.
And I think if you try editing a program in ed, you will find "Hello, world" quite impressive 8-)
There's no information as to whether charon runs on Plan 9 or only on inferno. As you stated previously, inferno is not Plan 9. Can you reference a binary download for charon or must one build it from source? Is there more information on charon, such as a review? Or is the man page the only documentation available?
Re:The review is not so great
on
Driving Plan 9
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
Hi Ems2,
I am the author of the referenced Plan 9 article and I can safely say that 640X480x8 was the default window size that came up.This is fact and not opinion.I think I mentioned that it was easily changed to a higher resolution, either by Rio or by simply typing 800x600x8. I now see that there is a version of emacs available. I referenced an out-of-date posting on the 9fans list (I think). Thanks for the correction. Emacs is a great asset.
You will see that I too provided plenty of references to the Plan 9 documentation for people to investigate.
I totally disagree. I was using Oracle for an enterprise telephony project. We accidentally set the file system as read-only. Oracle started complaining but kept running. We were stunned and amazed at its resilience. This was grace under pressure.
When you consider that a large majority of OS projects do not delivery products as useful or successful as Linux or MySQL, or even any real product at all, you might see why businesses see their contribution a little differently than teh OSS community itself. I'm just sayin'.
Slashdot Mirror
without Win3.0, there would never have been any subsequent versions on Windows. And for those of us who were Win3.0 adopters, I can tell you that is was a better OS in terms of cost, hardware, and applications than many of its peers: DOS, Novell, UNIX, MacOS5.
I think we can all agree that actions have consequences, especially in an over-engineered software environment with layers upon layers of APIs and legacy code. - AH4H
10% - 15% is not high efficiency for photovoltaic panels, 30%+ is high efficiency.
www.genezzo.com
Plan 9 is a radically distributed OS. It was written from conception as a distributed kernel, and all aspects of the OS are distributed in ways that Linux/Unix/Windows are not. It may be older, but it embraces many distributed paradigms that few OS's in production can handle. Because it is so distributed, the many common utils are simply not compatible with the kernel without a ground-up rewrite. Emacs Emacs, X, KDE, Gnome are not ported and probably won't be. Here's a naive review: http://www.osnews.com/story.php/15235/Investigatin g-the-Plan-9-Operating-System
Just use Plutonium. We have enough excess inventory to burn, so to speak.
I coded on a Convex and I used this option. It worked for basic loops but I liked coding in Convex assembly. It was a lot like PDP assembly.
you can't induce current or voltage in a twisted pair. That's why it's twisted, to eliminate induction.
A book has already been written on Luca Turon's controversial theory of smell. it's a great read! http://www.amazon.com/Emperor-Scent-Story-Perfume- Obsession/dp/0375759816/sr=8-3/qid=1165952555/ref= pd_bbs_3/105-9158177-5828428?ie=UTF8&s=books
There are a variety of very good Open Solaris distros now:
o nid=6E46815A1C5CC33AC6470A9439DABAA6#all/
Belenix: http://belenix.sarovar.org/belenix_download.html/
Polaris, Solaris for PowerPC: http://www.blastware.org/
Nexenta, the Solaris/Ubuntu mix: http://www.gnusolaris.org/gswiki/Nexenta_OS/
And of course you can go straight to the official Open Solaris Communities page here: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/communities/;jsessi
Fight IBM FUD with Open Solaris Fact.
What most amateur IT people don't understand is that there is a world of difference between Norton Antivirus, and Symantec Antivirus. As an IT professional who has helped neutralize viruses off of many computers, and who administers a Windows domain (don't hate me), I can say that Symantec Corporate Antivirus works great, is centrally managed, and does what it is supposed to and no more. I've used to for 5 years now and it has successfully prevented numerous virus outbreaks that would have greatly disrupted the Windows workstations I am paid to administer. If this were a Linux/Mac desktop environment, there would be no need to run an antovirus. But there is critical software that is available only for Windows. And this is what I am paid to keep running.
I administer an Exchange email server for a small company. On average 60% of all our mail is spam and it adds up to several MB of spam per user per week. If users don't make a daily effort to delete spam, it does fill the email storage. Spam is more than annoying, it costs money in storage and processing. You may laugh at the ISP's problem but I have had to manually delete email from user's accounts when they would process their spam. Yes, we have a professional server spam filter, and it works for 99.8% of the time.
In your opinion, where do you think an "alternative" OS like Plan 9 would find its niche? If you had $30M to spend on Plan 9, how would you spend it specifically?
There is one fairly big problem with running the Plan 9 LiveCD. The problem is that you are running as a user that has no access to: a) a persistent file system like /tmp, b) most useful common UNIX tools like ping, emacs, etc, (no path?) c) the user creation app to give yourself more access.
And so if you are running the LiveCD as a newbie you have access to very little of the tools that would really help you understand the true extent of Plan 9. Which is quite deep. Instead you are essentially sitting in a sandbox with no toys to play in the sand. This I think defeats the purpose of what a LiveCD should really do, which is to give you a really good experience, very quickly. I don't think you should have to know the specific paths of various utilities in order to have a good LiveCD experience.
Perhaps in the future there could be a newbie LiveCD which is more like a guided tour, and less like a jail cell.
A problem with MS Virtual PC: At the partdisk prompt I was not able to install a Master Boot Record (mbr) in Virtual PC's virtual disk partition and so the installation stopped dead.
More university support for Plan 9 sounds like an excellent idea to further some of the innovative ideas in the OS. U. Calgary has some support as detailed here: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~mirtchov/lanlp9/
Maybe you don't realize that although you can run rio in the LiveCD you easily (or at all, I don't know) write to a persistent file system without a full install. I could not get Plan 9 to install on anything but the ancient Thinkpad, and this did not have a supported VGA. No VESA. This whole hardware compatibility problem becomes a non-issue if you can get Plan 9 working in a virtualized environment such as VMWare or Microsoft's now free Virtual PC. But apparently there are issues here as well.
I think you missed my point. My point was whether charon runs under Plan 9 without modification or special provisions.
In my defense I state that I couldn't get Plan 9 to completely install on ANY of the 5 systems I had at hand. Without both a compatible graphics card and a compatible NIC I was unable to attach to a grid resource (9grid.de) and actually do some distributed computing. Which was my original goal. And I think if you try editing a program in ed, you will find "Hello, world" quite impressive 8-)
There's no information as to whether charon runs on Plan 9 or only on inferno. As you stated previously, inferno is not Plan 9. Can you reference a binary download for charon or must one build it from source? Is there more information on charon, such as a review? Or is the man page the only documentation available?
Hi Ems2, I am the author of the referenced Plan 9 article and I can safely say that 640X480x8 was the default window size that came up.This is fact and not opinion.I think I mentioned that it was easily changed to a higher resolution, either by Rio or by simply typing 800x600x8. I now see that there is a version of emacs available. I referenced an out-of-date posting on the 9fans list (I think). Thanks for the correction. Emacs is a great asset. You will see that I too provided plenty of references to the Plan 9 documentation for people to investigate.
I totally disagree. I was using Oracle for an enterprise telephony project. We accidentally set the file system as read-only. Oracle started complaining but kept running. We were stunned and amazed at its resilience. This was grace under pressure.
Didn't the NSA put out a distro specifically for high security applications a few years ago??
Try searching on "microsoft atlas", use the quotes in google.
When you consider that a large majority of OS projects do not delivery products as useful or successful as Linux or MySQL, or even any real product at all, you might see why businesses see their contribution a little differently than teh OSS community itself. I'm just sayin'.