Anyhow, why the fuck is this being posted on Slashdot? Hello? Is anybody on Earth not entirely aware of this shit already?
Most of the new developers are going to college and are not totally aware of these things. Considering the number of people who don't conduct themselves properly on slashdot I think this is an issue.
What was the point of posting this, exactly? Just to say.. "open source is the best development method, and although it sometimes seems like the communication methods it forces developers to use can be a problem, actually they are really good, all hail open source." It just seemed like an empty piece of propaganda.. Do we really need that?
Development of open source is not the only development model where this is a problem. Increasingly companies are hiring coders. Now consider that if I want the best I may not be able to have that person get into the office. Communication via e-mail and chat systems would become an ideal solution to that problem. All code could be done via ssh or whatever with cvs.
So basically this is not propaganda but a methodology that is almost necessary given specific circumstances.
Take slashdot usually people disagree and can flame others. However people have things called lives. Usually this allows the individual to calm down and think things through. Plus e-mail is usually not instanteneous and allows for greater though than say IRC or another near insteneous system.
Oh please you mean that ecconomic prosperity in the United States is a direct result of the fact that there is some high level spying going on? Last I checked there wasn't a public web page that listed various secret information from other countries and allows each and every business in the USA to get it when and if they please. Furthermore how do you plan to have a group of European nations beat up and bully the US? Strategically that would never work.
Well let's look at this in detail. I am a government contractor working on a weapons system or perhaps something that I want to do for another country. Now suppose that for some reason say the Chinese or the Germans seem to be absolutely much better (read giving a little something under the table to the people involved to make the outcome better). Now this costs my company billions and so I get mad and have a little talk with the State Department and a few other people. Now magnify this several times and you understand why the US has wanted to take decisive action against this. Personally if my standard of living and my ability to be secure in the world is made better than I don't really mind too much. You can call me biased if you want but I am sure if you talk to the French, English, Spanish, Germans, Finns, (insert European country here) you will find that and the end of the say what really matters is being comfortable.
If you think about it if say a groups can conduct communications in a secure method that means that a country can quite easily force another to use brute force and grisly methods to get what they want when they could have just as easily decrypted the message.
You can be as smart as you want to but if I still have the bombs I can take out your country any time I like and all the Shakespeare and math will not save you. More to the point I do not completely think that the Europeans don't do a little espionage on our turf. Considering that the NSA uses people in Britian to spy on us I would think that they use a little of that "data" to aid themselves whenever they can.
What I don't understand is - what can radiation really do to the Galileo? I know the radiation we deal with on Earth is a whole different story then open space radiation, or the radiation around Jupiter.
There's radiation around Jupiter? I never really guessed but I guess it could be possible considering that Jupiter is almost a star in and of itself because of the massive volume of gas the is within it.
Is is at all possible that perhaps a space probe could be positioned in such a way that perhaps when and if the power would be lost that the vehicle could return to earth gracefully? Then all you would have to do is retool it and launch it again. That would make for an interesting concept and allow for more data to be gathered much more cheaply.
Ummm... welll thats a nice little theory, BUT the reason why 'certain' apps/software/whatever are bloated and unstable is because they try to make everyhting backwards compatible, and end up with 5 times more shit than they need to have. Lets face it. Do realy need to run software that was desighned for Win3x. Ofcourse not. You have to break 'compatibility' in order to persue new goals and to embrace new technology. Fuck all of this 'I wanna remain compatible' bs.
Ok I have a little problem with this. I have just finished a rather long and difficult program (for me) and I would rather not have to port it to a new and "improved" version of the compiler when it is "upgraded". Backwards compatability is not necessarily a bad thing. It just insures that people will be able to compile the program and use language constructs that they are used to.
The perfect language would have the ability to use hundreds of different structures and things (including all the "bad" things like goto's and other evil things) then the programmer could use whatever they like for whatever task that they like and not have to wory about what the person who designed the language cared about at the time.
When I asked if there would ever be a "developer" version of Mandrake, I didn't mean a distribution that automatically included all of the developer tools. I do use Mandrake 7.0, and I do have all of the developer tools installed. What I was referring to would be something a bit more like Debian, where things are quite so user-friendly and "windowsish". In other words, a distribution that would be more fun for developers to play around with.
If you are really interested in being a developer it's best to download the source. I use and operate debian every day. I also update the packages I need from the unstable directory (ok not within the last 3 weeks because of my schedule) and then install them. If you compare the versions of some things say your favorite software package you can usually get a more up to date version at the maintainers site.
One of my major headaches is wondering when some of these developers work on things.
Anyone using the e2compr kernel patch? Well my hard drive kind of needs it because it's not that large (340Mb no not 34Gb or 3.4Gb 340Mb) well anyway if you check the current development kernel version you will note that it is 2.3.50 and the alpha patch is 2.3.51-2. Well the latest development for the 2.3.x series is at 2.3.6 and that dosn't even compile ( I currently use an old 2.2.7 version on my machine) well the last date of any change was November 11, 1999:(. See even then you can get burned.
I guess the best possible thing you could do would be to have say a seperate partition and install the source and binaries on that. Possibly you could then create debian packages for source and binaries for the rest of us (they are really wanted) but that's enough of my ranting.
I realize that Debian exists for this purpose, but I would like to see a variety of developer platforms of Linux. I think that the community as a whole seems to be forgetting that Linux started as Linus's hobby, and grew to be the hobby of dedicated hackers everywhere. Now, Linux has moved to the corporate world (even though I do love the new "business Tux"/. icon) and the roots and history are really gone.
In general I found that unless you like repartitioning your hd debian is a good choice although red hat is getting better in this regard with their upgrade features and experimental packages.
I realize it and I find that to be the main reason that I can use linux and get away with it. Primarily I can code at least do so to get out of a paper bag however I am not that good. What I found out while thinking with nothing particularly exciting to do was that most of the apps that were used on these various forms of unix were created in house and not from a vendor so that essentially new apps didn't matter. However when you don't have time to write that new spiffy fractal generator in your spare time it becomes a problem. Therefore you have to rely on development in the community.
...and then imagine it if it were implanted in people, and somehow they were able to record. Privacy would be a thing of the past.
Unfortunately you have to somehow dupe millions of people into putting these things inside their bodies which would be difficult. Couple that with the trillions and trillions of terabytes that would accumuliate from each and every person who had the device and you have a very untenable situation.
I wonder if we could add in a zoom lens, or maybe x-ray vision (Like in the latest Bond movie).
Unfortunately if you are emiting x-rays you could damage the living tissue inside your eye or your brain. Also I don't think that all those people would like to be exposed to random ammounts of such particles anyway.
I wonder if this is covered under my HMO.:-) Seriously, though, I wonder about the insurance industry and how they are going to handle things like this coming up. LASIK is getting more and more popular, but it is still expensive. If getting a processor like this is cheaper than LASIK and cheaper than conventional glasses -- what's the future of vision plans? At what point do they spring for the implants/glasses/lasers to fix you up? Of course, with all the genome stuff going on, maybe they'll make you fix it before the child is even born.
What about the already living? I think that one of the major stumbling blocks for better lives is that there are already people who were born before all this little stuff is going on. I really would like to have the ability to alter my life for the better. The question is does this actually work in say a lab rat or a human? Maybe take a blind person who has really nothing to loose and put one of these in and see if it works.
Well, you can rely on cheesy special effects, or you can rely on acting, context and the viewer's intelligence.
Well from what I know about film (ok I am not an actor but I know a few things) you simply would employ the same type of technique that is used for the internal thoughts of characters where you have a voice being spoken and the rest of the speech being either muted or muffled to allow for the omniscience factor.
If you've read the book, you probably won't like the film. This is true for most book-based films, not just Dune.
Well I have seen various filmed versions of Sherlock Holmes mysteries and have seen Wurthering Heights on film and they were pretty acurate.
I saw the film without having read the book, and I thought it was okay. A bit bizarre, but okay.
I have heard of this book however I have never read it. Something about some desolate planet where people squabble and kill over spaceship fuel found only on said plannet or am I wrong?
So maybe you're just expecting too much if you want the film to be faithful to, or as good as, the book it's based on.
I guess you could compare things like that to say taking War and Peace and converting it to film. Unless you want to sit in a chair for about 15 hours or more and watch a movie you have to cut things down.
Yessiree, Bob! Sci Fi has been talking about this for a couple years, and they started promoting it during their "Sci2K" campaign this past December. So we can probably expect to see it premier during the fall sweeps.
One minor question for people. Assuming I didn't want to get all of cable but say only pay for one channel (bet you can't guess) could I do it? I currently don't have a cable installation yet but I think it might be worth it in the future.
The average access to technology outside the US is usually even more restricted than it is here. Computers tend to cost more and online access is more difficult to attain. This can take many forms the least of which is per minute fees for even simple local calls. Tends to interfere with being online for any ammount of time when you are getting billed for anything you do. Hmm, I'm thinking NOT.. at least not in Canada. Here ADSL is a viable option: $40/mth with 2.5 mbps for access speeds, available in pretty much any major community (at least where I am), from what I've heard, the States are still trying to push ISDN! Honestly, the phone networks in Canada kick the shit out of what is down in the states. Computers cost the same amount, are just as available and just as highly used. I agree that European countries may have it a little harder, but don't forget your Neighbours in the north.. Ok, Ok, maybe I'm biased, I do work for a phone company after all:)
Probably because ISDN is expensive and not that interesting because it's limited in speed.
there is compelling reason because even though slavery and copyrights have nothing to do with each other in terms of human treatment, they are almost the exact same in terms of the arguments used to uphold them as a property right. Try it, give me an argument that's used to justify intellectual-property that wasn't also used to justify slave property.
Well maybe if I have spent oh say 10 years of my life to develop a concept or a process and I decide I want to get some money from my suffering and hard work then I should be able to.
this is the whole point though, who said anything about international dissent, half our problems are being caused by US companies. Specifically MS, MPAA, and RIAA. All very heavy in to copyrights, and all very willing to act extremely unethically (perhaps violent) to uphold them. BTW, copyrights are definitely on the way out. When it comes to bogus property rights, they are taking the path that slavery did.
Wow, you SV reporters just look around and think you're seeing the whole world, maybe you even fly to NYC, and Tokyo. Why not take a stop in Casper? or Billings? or Twin Falls? or Topeka? or Rawlings? or Lubbock? or Elko? or Flagstaff? or Sante Fe? or Grand Forks? Y'all heard of any of these places? Or is that just "fly over country" to ya? No sir, most of America is not wired or accustomed to the net. It's still brand spanking new tech.
I am in one of these places (read anywhere but "Silicon Valley") and I have internet access and there are many places that do offer it. Unless you live like Ted Kazenski in the hills of Montana you can get on the internet if you are willing to pay.
I honestly have no idea how other countries will deal with the internet. Countries like the US that tend to allow more freedom of expression can't even handle it. Every time I turn arround someone wants to sue an mp3 site, censor in the name of stopping porn, jerk away peoples domain names without due process, restrict the export of encryption, and force people to remove DVD code from their web sites.
Think slowly and carefully now and take in these little facts.
1. The average access to technology outside the US is usually even more restricted than it is here. Computers tend to cost more and online access is more difficult to attain. This can take many forms the least of which is per minute fees for even simple local calls. Tends to interfere with being online for any ammount of time when you are getting billed for anything you do.
2. More people in sheer numbers are on the internet in the USA or from ISPs in the USA. Generally problems that plague the US will also start to creep into other areas as well. Remember it's a global ecconomy now.
Yes I think it is safe to say, the US of A definitely can not handle what's going on - and if anything goes down - it will go down here first. In fact, it is almost frightening, because many large corporations have bet over a trillion dollars on the assumption that copyrights are a basic right, they're not, they're not sustainable, and they're not enforcable. It's only a matter of time before all hell breaks loose.
I don't think that international pressure could change a damn thing that the US does. In all international bodies that count the US leads so exactly how is "all hell" going to break loose. You are pretty vague here I don't think that the copyright system will be taken down anytime soon especially becuase of international dissent.
Burn it in an appropriate ritual of cleansing and casting out of demons? Doe aol run on linux? or unix for that matter? I wasn't aware of any such support.
There isn't any but there may be if they agree to it. Generally AOL is only supported on windows and Mac platforms because most of the idiots^H^H^H^H^H^H people who use AOL are on those platforms.
Slashdot Mirror
Anyhow, why the fuck is this being posted on Slashdot? Hello? Is anybody on Earth not entirely aware of this shit already?
Most of the new developers are going to college and are not totally aware of these things. Considering the number of people who don't conduct themselves properly on slashdot I think this is an issue.
What was the point of posting this, exactly? Just to say.. "open source is the best development method, and although it sometimes seems like the communication methods it forces developers to use can be a problem, actually they
are really good, all hail open source." It just seemed like an empty piece of propaganda.. Do we really need that?
Development of open source is not the only development model where this is a problem. Increasingly companies are hiring coders. Now consider that if I want the best I may not be able to have that person get into the office. Communication via e-mail and chat systems would become an ideal solution to that problem. All code could be done via ssh or whatever with cvs.
So basically this is not propaganda but a methodology that is almost necessary given specific circumstances.
Take slashdot usually people disagree and can flame others. However people have things called lives. Usually this allows the individual to calm down and think things through. Plus e-mail is usually not instanteneous and allows for greater though than say IRC or another near insteneous system.
Oh please you mean that ecconomic prosperity in the United States is a direct result of the fact that there is some high level spying going on? Last I checked there wasn't a public web page that listed various secret information from other countries and allows each and every business in the USA to get it when and if they please.
Furthermore how do you plan to have a group of European nations beat up and bully the US? Strategically that would never work.
Well let's look at this in detail.
I am a government contractor working on a weapons system or perhaps something that I want to do for another country. Now suppose that for some reason say the Chinese or the Germans seem to be absolutely much better (read giving a little something under the table to the people involved to make the outcome better). Now this costs my company billions and so I get mad and have a little talk with the State Department and a few other people. Now magnify this several times and you understand why the US has wanted to take decisive action against this. Personally if my standard of living and my ability to be secure in the world is made better than I don't really mind too much. You can call me biased if you want but I am sure if you talk to the French, English, Spanish, Germans, Finns, (insert European country here) you will find that and the end of the say what really matters is being comfortable.
Why would the people that the French shifted not say do a little revenge move and make them pay? Perhaps sanctions?
If you think about it if say a groups can conduct communications in a secure method that means that a country can quite easily force another to use brute force and grisly methods to get what they want when they could have just as easily decrypted the message.
You can be as smart as you want to but if I still have the bombs I can take out your country any time I like and all the Shakespeare and math will not save you.
More to the point I do not completely think that the Europeans don't do a little espionage on our turf. Considering that the NSA uses people in Britian to spy on us I would think that they use a little of that "data" to aid themselves whenever they can.
What I don't understand is - what can radiation really do to the Galileo? I know the radiation we deal with on Earth is a whole different story then open space radiation, or the radiation around Jupiter.
There's radiation around Jupiter? I never really guessed but I guess it could be possible considering that Jupiter is almost a star in and of itself because of the massive volume of gas the is within it.
Is is at all possible that perhaps a space probe could be positioned in such a way that perhaps when and if the power would be lost that the vehicle could return to earth gracefully? Then all you would have to do is retool it and launch it again. That would make for an interesting concept and allow for more data to be gathered much more cheaply.
Ummm... welll
thats a nice little theory, BUT
the reason why 'certain' apps/software/whatever are bloated and unstable is because they try to make everyhting backwards compatible, and end up with 5 times more shit than they need to have. Lets face it. Do realy need to run
software that was desighned for Win3x. Ofcourse not. You have to break 'compatibility' in order to persue new goals and to embrace new technology. Fuck all of this 'I wanna remain compatible' bs.
Ok I have a little problem with this. I have just finished a rather long and difficult program (for me) and I would rather not have to port it to a new and "improved" version of the compiler when it is "upgraded". Backwards compatability is not necessarily a bad thing. It just insures that people will be able to compile the program and use language constructs that they are used to.
The perfect language would have the ability to use hundreds of different structures and things (including all the "bad" things like goto's and other evil things) then the programmer could use whatever they like for whatever task that they like and not have to wory about what the person who designed the language cared about at the time.
When I asked if there would ever be a "developer" version of Mandrake, I didn't mean a distribution that automatically included all of the developer tools. I do use Mandrake 7.0, and I do have all of the developer tools installed. What
:(. See even then you can get burned.
/. icon) and the roots and history are really gone.
I was referring to would be something a bit more like Debian, where things are quite so user-friendly and "windowsish". In other words, a distribution that would be more fun for developers to play around with.
If you are really interested in being a developer it's best to download the source. I use and operate debian every day. I also update the packages I need from the unstable directory (ok not within the last 3 weeks because of my schedule) and then install them. If you compare the versions of some things say your favorite software package you can usually get a more up to date version at the maintainers site.
One of my major headaches is wondering when some of these developers work on things.
Anyone using the e2compr kernel patch? Well my hard drive kind of needs it because it's not that large (340Mb no not 34Gb or 3.4Gb 340Mb) well anyway if you check the current development kernel version you will note that it is 2.3.50 and the alpha patch is 2.3.51-2. Well the latest development for the 2.3.x series is at 2.3.6 and that dosn't even compile ( I currently use an old 2.2.7 version on my machine) well the last date of any change was November 11, 1999
I guess the best possible thing you could do would be to have say a seperate partition and install the source and binaries on that. Possibly you could then create debian packages for source and binaries for the rest of us (they are really wanted) but that's enough of my ranting.
I realize that Debian exists for this purpose, but I would like to see a variety of developer platforms of Linux. I think that the community as a whole seems to be forgetting that Linux started as Linus's hobby, and grew to be the hobby
of dedicated hackers everywhere. Now, Linux has moved to the corporate world (even though I do love the new "business Tux"
In general I found that unless you like repartitioning your hd debian is a good choice although red hat is getting better in this regard with their upgrade features and experimental packages.
I realize it and I find that to be the main reason that I can use linux and get away with it. Primarily I can code at least do so to get out of a paper bag however I am not that good. What I found out while thinking with nothing particularly exciting to do was that most of the apps that were used on these various forms of unix were created in house and not from a vendor so that essentially new apps didn't matter. However when you don't have time to write that new spiffy fractal generator in your spare time it becomes a problem. Therefore you have to rely on development in the community.
...and then imagine it if it were implanted in people, and somehow they were able to record. Privacy would be a thing of the past.
Unfortunately you have to somehow dupe millions of people into putting these things inside their bodies which would be difficult. Couple that with the trillions and trillions of terabytes that would accumuliate from each and every person who had the device and you have a very untenable situation.
I wonder if we could add in a zoom lens, or maybe x-ray vision (Like in the latest Bond movie).
Unfortunately if you are emiting x-rays you could damage the living tissue inside your eye or your brain. Also I don't think that all those people would like to be exposed to random ammounts of such particles anyway.
I wonder if this is covered under my HMO. :-) Seriously, though, I wonder about the insurance industry and how they are going to handle things like this coming up. LASIK is getting more and more popular, but it is still
expensive. If getting a processor like this is cheaper than LASIK and cheaper than conventional glasses -- what's the future of vision plans? At what point do they spring for the implants/glasses/lasers to fix you up? Of course, with all
the genome stuff going on, maybe they'll make you fix it before the child is even born.
What about the already living? I think that one of the major stumbling blocks for better lives is that there are already people who were born before all this little stuff is going on. I really would like to have the ability to alter my life for the better. The question is does this actually work in say a lab rat or a human? Maybe take a blind person who has really nothing to loose and put one of these in and see if it works.
Well, you can rely on cheesy special effects, or you can rely on acting, context and the viewer's intelligence.
Well from what I know about film (ok I am not an actor but I know a few things) you simply would employ the same type of technique that is used for the internal thoughts of characters where you have a voice being spoken and the rest of the speech being either muted or muffled to allow for the omniscience factor.
If you've read the book, you probably won't like the film. This is true for most book-based films, not just Dune.
Well I have seen various filmed versions of Sherlock Holmes mysteries and have seen Wurthering Heights on film and they were pretty acurate.
I saw the film without having read the book, and I thought it was okay. A bit bizarre, but okay.
I have heard of this book however I have never read it. Something about some desolate planet where people squabble and kill over spaceship fuel found only on said plannet or am I wrong?
So maybe you're just expecting too much if you want the film to be faithful to, or as good as, the book it's based on.
I guess you could compare things like that to say taking War and Peace and converting it to film. Unless you want to sit in a chair for about 15 hours or more and watch a movie you have to cut things down.
Yessiree, Bob! Sci Fi has been talking about this for a couple years, and they started promoting it during their "Sci2K" campaign this past December. So we can probably expect to see it premier during the fall sweeps.
One minor question for people. Assuming I didn't want to get all of cable but say only pay for one channel (bet you can't guess) could I do it? I currently don't have a cable installation yet but I think it might be worth it in the future.
The average access to technology outside the US is usually even more restricted than it is here. Computers tend to cost more and online access is more difficult to attain. This can take many forms the least of which is per minute fees :)
for even simple local calls. Tends to interfere with being online for any ammount of time when you are getting billed for anything you do. Hmm, I'm thinking NOT.. at least not in Canada. Here ADSL is a viable option: $40/mth
with 2.5 mbps for access speeds, available in pretty much any major community (at least where I am), from what I've heard, the States are still trying to push ISDN! Honestly, the phone networks in Canada kick the shit out of what is
down in the states. Computers cost the same amount, are just as available and just as highly used. I agree that European countries may have it a little harder, but don't forget your Neighbours in the north.. Ok, Ok, maybe I'm biased,
I do work for a phone company after all
Probably because ISDN is expensive and not that interesting because it's limited in speed.
there is compelling reason because even though slavery and copyrights have nothing to do with each other in terms of human treatment, they are almost the exact same in terms of the arguments used to uphold them as a property
right. Try it, give me an argument that's used to justify intellectual-property that wasn't also used to justify slave property.
Well maybe if I have spent oh say 10 years of my life to develop a concept or a process and I decide I want to get some money from my suffering and hard work then I should be able to.
this is the whole point though, who said anything about international dissent, half our problems are being caused by US companies. Specifically MS, MPAA, and RIAA. All very heavy in to copyrights, and all very willing to act
extremely unethically (perhaps violent) to uphold them. BTW, copyrights are definitely on the way out. When it comes to bogus property rights, they are taking the path that slavery did.
Proof? references? it looks like hearsay to me.
Wow, you SV reporters just look around and think you're seeing the whole world, maybe you even fly to NYC, and Tokyo. Why not take a stop in Casper? or Billings? or Twin Falls? or Topeka? or Rawlings? or Lubbock? or
Elko? or Flagstaff? or Sante Fe? or Grand Forks? Y'all heard of any of these places? Or is that just "fly over country" to ya? No sir, most of America is not wired or accustomed to the net. It's still brand spanking new tech.
I am in one of these places (read anywhere but "Silicon Valley") and I have internet access and there are many places that do offer it. Unless you live like Ted Kazenski in the hills of Montana you can get on the internet if you are willing to pay.
I honestly have no idea how other countries will deal with the internet. Countries like the US that tend to allow more freedom of expression can't even handle it. Every time I turn arround someone wants to sue an mp3 site, censor in
the name of stopping porn, jerk away peoples domain names without due process, restrict the export of encryption, and force people to remove DVD code from their web sites.
Think slowly and carefully now and take in these little facts.
1. The average access to technology outside the US is usually even more restricted than it is here. Computers tend to cost more and online access is more difficult to attain. This can take many forms the least of which is per minute fees for even simple local calls. Tends to interfere with being online for any ammount of time when you are getting billed for anything you do.
2. More people in sheer numbers are on the internet in the USA or from ISPs in the USA. Generally problems that plague the US will also start to creep into other areas as well. Remember it's a global ecconomy now.
Yes I think it is safe to say, the US of A definitely can not handle what's going on - and if anything goes down - it will go down here first. In fact, it is almost frightening, because many large corporations have bet over a trillion
dollars on the assumption that copyrights are a basic right, they're not, they're not sustainable, and they're not enforcable. It's only a matter of time before all hell breaks loose.
I don't think that international pressure could change a damn thing that the US does. In all international bodies that count the US leads so exactly how is "all hell" going to break loose. You are pretty vague here I don't think that the copyright system will be taken down anytime soon especially becuase of international dissent.
Run a beta version of a browser for "secure" transactions over the internet. I think that you will find some problems with that.
Burn it in an appropriate ritual of cleansing and casting out of demons? Doe aol run on linux? or unix for that matter? I wasn't aware of any such support.
There isn't any but there may be if they agree to it. Generally AOL is only supported on windows and Mac platforms because most of the idiots^H^H^H^H^H^H people who use AOL are on those platforms.