You're the one who thinks the Democrats have some special lock on violence, a bizarre position that could only come from someone so thoroughly steeped in their own cognitive dissonance that they're either an attention-starved adolescent or certifiably insane.
And yes, I know being gay isn't a race, but it is an identifiable group, and one that has been the subject of a lot of violence and persecution, both from the State, and from various bigoted groups looking to keep the LGBT in the closet.
Because "anti-Gay" isn't limited to Muslims, and there are many groups in America, many mainstream groups, who make extremely strident anti-gay comments. Do they wish to kill all the gays, well, most of these groups don't, but when you have groups as diverse as the Catholic Church, the Church of Latter Day Saints and several Evangelical churches battling LGBT rights at every turn, you can see that the sentiments of Omar Mateen fall at one end of a continuum, a continuum that is much broader than just Muslims.
Judging by Mateen's history, including spousal assault, we're likely dealing with a person with serious anger issues, who was clearly raised by a bigoted man, and we all know from the history of racism in America that men like this will often turn to violence, whether that's shooting up African-Americans in a largely black church in Charleston, SC, or, in this case, targeting a gay club in Orlando, FL. I imagine if you looked at the history of racial attacks in America, you'd find a lot of Mateens out there, though the religious affiliation will more often be some breed of Southern Baptist. But, of course, now apparently all the God-fearing Evangelicals have decided that gays aren't too bad, when it's the much-feared Muslim doing the shooting.
You've stopped even making sense. I doubt very much you're even that old. Probably a 19 year old card-carrying Republican who believes Democrats are Satan and that Climatologists are all Commies trying to destroy the US.
Well, some of us are smart enough to know that there is no "Christian agenda", since Christianity encompasses a large number of independent sects and faith groups, and that even within these groups the views on social matters like homosexuality vary widely.
You know, much as how there's no homogeneous Islam, where all Muslims believe exactly the same things, and interpret their holy book exactly the same way.
Every time there's a major gay pride event, I see no lack of Christians declaring how appalled they are at all the displays of homosexual love. Various turns of phrase amounting to "Why can't those sodomites stay in the closet" usually come out. I've seen no lack of posts around here during my 13 years posting where some posters show considerable hostility to the LGBT community. It was a few months ago that there were many posters declaring their approval for the "birth gender" bathroom law passed in North Carolina.
I'd say there are a large number of Evangelicals, Mormons and Catholics out there who have expended enormous amounts of energy to block same-sex marriage, and in some cases to actively pursue agendas to deprive homosexuals of civil rights protections and even full enjoyment of civil liberties.
Yes, not as spectacular as shooting them up in a nightclub, but the message is pretty clear "God hates fags". I guess that it's some sort of advancement that most of these groups don't want to actually kill them, but then again, Thomas Jefferson thought it quite a step in the path of liberty when he wrote a law only wanting to castrate homosexual men, as opposed to having them executed.
You were only pointing how your confirmation bias works. I get it, you're a right wing lunatic who needs to see the evil other side as producing all the nuts. It's probably due to the fact that your a childish individual lacking in any perspective, and buying fully into this view that "left" and "right" represent "evil" and "good".
As to your AGW nonsense, well, stupidity usually drives one to view major branches of science being wrong, because, again, you're a pathetic infantile individual.
Jesus fucking Christ. It was a gay nightclub targeted by a guy who even his father admits had recently become incredibly outraged by the sight of two gay men kissing.
Why is it that certain people are so fucking keen to trying to minimize the anti-LGBT aspects of this crime. It's almost as if they want to be about Islam, or perhaps no matter what it's about, it shouldn't be about homosexuals.
As I say elsewhere, would you complain that the media talked about the attack on a *black* church in Charleston? Do you think that's inappropriate?
So far as I understand it, he first came to the FBI's attention after he apparently made some intemperate pro-terrorist statements at work, and someone called the FBI on him.
The fact is that certain groups are very heavily monitored. The more extreme Christian Identity sects and various other white supremacist churches are constantly monitored by the FBI, and along with groups of survivalists, white supremacists, anti-government anarchists, and the like, are often viewed as being groups who are most likely to produce homegrown terrorists. The Norwegian mass murderer, Hans Breivik, was a Scandinavian version of that sort of white supremacism.
It might have escaped your notice, but a certain holy book beloved of Jews, Christians and Muslims has this rather interesting passage:
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13
It's like bitching that everyone talked about all the African-Americans at the Charleston church massacre. After all, they shouldn't be talking about a "black" church....
Fuck me, but there are some really idiotically awful people posting here. I classify them into two groups, and they likely overlap in many cases. One group are the people who hate Muslims, and look for any opportunity to attack them, and the second are people who hate LGBT people, and look for any opportunity to minimize acts of bigotry against them.
Are you fucking kidding? 49 people, almost all who were homosexuals, were killed, in a gay nightclub popular in the area, by a man who, from everything we can gather, had a particular grudge against homosexuals.
But nope, nothing at all to do with gays. Nothing at all.
I spent some time on a traditionalist Catholic forum, and there's nothing the father of the shooter said that hasn't been said by many Catholic posters on that site. Most of those posters were clearly fluent English speakers, so I'm assuming they were American, Canadian, British, Irish and Australian, so we're talking residents of the First World, and they often had the same view. "Oh sure, you shouldn't attack homosexuals, but you know, they're going to pay for their unnatural acts!"
In fact, in certain religious communities, like traditionalist Catholicism, Evangelical Christianity (and related groups like the Pentecostals, Seventh Day Adventists, and the like), and in conservative Islam, there's an incredible obsession with homosexuality. Some of it may come from Judaeo-Christianity's roots, the Old Testament made it pretty clear homosexuals are to be executed, and even ol' St. Paul made it clear in the New Testament that homosexuals were part of a special group of really bad sinners. And this was passed on to Islam well, but all clearly linked back to the Mosaic laws prohibiting homosexual acts.
You should spend some time on these sites, to get a window into the kind of mind that believes there's an infinite omnipotent being that apparently obsesses about what is done with our genitals, and has a special place in Hell for those that insert them in the wrong place, or who pick a life partner that doesn't fit the narrow view. While Omar Mateen may be at the harsh end of the spectrum, before people pat themselves on the back for being so very secular and advanced, state-level sodomy laws were only finally thrown out in the US in 2003, and major religious organizations like the Catholic and Mormon Churches fought tooth and nail to prevent gay marriage, so while none of them advocated the murder of gays (well, most did it, there were some social conservative types who certainly want to make it illegal again), they were doing everything in their power to deprive homosexuals of full constitutional and legal rights.
I think a number of churches and religious sects really need to do some soul searching. This bizarre, almost fetishistic need to constantly rail against the LGBT community, to invoke conspiracies like the "Gay agenda", to constantly promote fear and, yes, hatred, needs to be confronted.
There is no question. There's a claim that Islam is especially prone to producing terrorists. Lots of ideologies produce violent terrorists. Many of the US's terrorist acts have been the acts of homegrown terrorists, often anti-government extreme anarchist types.
That's like claiming Ireland is more prone to producing terrorists because of the IRA and Protestant militias. It's a logical fallacy.
The shooter's old man sounds like a peach, a supporter of the Taliban who basically said, "I never taught my son to kill homosexuals", but then goes on to explain how God will punish them. One can imagine a man from a backwards culture who schooled his son in what to hate, and the son simply took it to the next level. After all, once someone has decided that God's gonna need to start killing some blasphemers, it's not that hard to decide that maybe God needs a helping hand, or in this case, an AR-15.
What I find so amusing about all of this is the people most like to spin stories about every Muslim being a villainous terrorist are also the people most likely to complain about the evil gay lobby.
I love how all the social conservatives who hate Muslims and homosexuals, have now started embracing homosexuals. It's kind of amusing, in a sick and ironic way.
I don't think he did anything of the kind. At best this is some crazed fantasist, at worst, it's some blowhard trying to sell an obviously absurd story.
Because no other ideological streams produce mass murdering terrorists. Oh wait, there's Tim Mcveigh, Hans Anders Breivik, and apparently a lone nut job James Howell, who has, according to reports, far right sympathies and was, fortunately, arrested before he could produce two attacks on the LGBT community in one weekend.
There are no lack of ideologically-driven lunatics out there who pick a group, whether that's gays, leftists, government employees, or whomever, and decide they must die in some greater cause. For fuck's sake, Ted Kaczynski's reign of terror was largely the product of his anarchist Ludditism.
And I think it should be mentioned that the people most often victimized by Islamic terrorists are their fellow Muslims.
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You're the one who thinks the Democrats have some special lock on violence, a bizarre position that could only come from someone so thoroughly steeped in their own cognitive dissonance that they're either an attention-starved adolescent or certifiably insane.
And yes, I know being gay isn't a race, but it is an identifiable group, and one that has been the subject of a lot of violence and persecution, both from the State, and from various bigoted groups looking to keep the LGBT in the closet.
Because "anti-Gay" isn't limited to Muslims, and there are many groups in America, many mainstream groups, who make extremely strident anti-gay comments. Do they wish to kill all the gays, well, most of these groups don't, but when you have groups as diverse as the Catholic Church, the Church of Latter Day Saints and several Evangelical churches battling LGBT rights at every turn, you can see that the sentiments of Omar Mateen fall at one end of a continuum, a continuum that is much broader than just Muslims.
Judging by Mateen's history, including spousal assault, we're likely dealing with a person with serious anger issues, who was clearly raised by a bigoted man, and we all know from the history of racism in America that men like this will often turn to violence, whether that's shooting up African-Americans in a largely black church in Charleston, SC, or, in this case, targeting a gay club in Orlando, FL. I imagine if you looked at the history of racial attacks in America, you'd find a lot of Mateens out there, though the religious affiliation will more often be some breed of Southern Baptist. But, of course, now apparently all the God-fearing Evangelicals have decided that gays aren't too bad, when it's the much-feared Muslim doing the shooting.
You've stopped even making sense. I doubt very much you're even that old. Probably a 19 year old card-carrying Republican who believes Democrats are Satan and that Climatologists are all Commies trying to destroy the US.
Well, some of us are smart enough to know that there is no "Christian agenda", since Christianity encompasses a large number of independent sects and faith groups, and that even within these groups the views on social matters like homosexuality vary widely.
You know, much as how there's no homogeneous Islam, where all Muslims believe exactly the same things, and interpret their holy book exactly the same way.
Every time there's a major gay pride event, I see no lack of Christians declaring how appalled they are at all the displays of homosexual love. Various turns of phrase amounting to "Why can't those sodomites stay in the closet" usually come out. I've seen no lack of posts around here during my 13 years posting where some posters show considerable hostility to the LGBT community. It was a few months ago that there were many posters declaring their approval for the "birth gender" bathroom law passed in North Carolina.
I'd say there are a large number of Evangelicals, Mormons and Catholics out there who have expended enormous amounts of energy to block same-sex marriage, and in some cases to actively pursue agendas to deprive homosexuals of civil rights protections and even full enjoyment of civil liberties.
Yes, not as spectacular as shooting them up in a nightclub, but the message is pretty clear "God hates fags". I guess that it's some sort of advancement that most of these groups don't want to actually kill them, but then again, Thomas Jefferson thought it quite a step in the path of liberty when he wrote a law only wanting to castrate homosexual men, as opposed to having them executed.
How about if they seek to withhold homosexuals' constitutional rights? Does that qualify?
You were only pointing how your confirmation bias works. I get it, you're a right wing lunatic who needs to see the evil other side as producing all the nuts. It's probably due to the fact that your a childish individual lacking in any perspective, and buying fully into this view that "left" and "right" represent "evil" and "good".
As to your AGW nonsense, well, stupidity usually drives one to view major branches of science being wrong, because, again, you're a pathetic infantile individual.
It, along with St. Paul's own anti-gay statement in Romans 1:26-27 are the foundations of anti-homosexuality in many strains of Christianity.
Jesus fucking Christ. It was a gay nightclub targeted by a guy who even his father admits had recently become incredibly outraged by the sight of two gay men kissing.
Why is it that certain people are so fucking keen to trying to minimize the anti-LGBT aspects of this crime. It's almost as if they want to be about Islam, or perhaps no matter what it's about, it shouldn't be about homosexuals.
As I say elsewhere, would you complain that the media talked about the attack on a *black* church in Charleston? Do you think that's inappropriate?
So far as I understand it, he first came to the FBI's attention after he apparently made some intemperate pro-terrorist statements at work, and someone called the FBI on him.
The fact is that certain groups are very heavily monitored. The more extreme Christian Identity sects and various other white supremacist churches are constantly monitored by the FBI, and along with groups of survivalists, white supremacists, anti-government anarchists, and the like, are often viewed as being groups who are most likely to produce homegrown terrorists. The Norwegian mass murderer, Hans Breivik, was a Scandinavian version of that sort of white supremacism.
It might have escaped your notice, but a certain holy book beloved of Jews, Christians and Muslims has this rather interesting passage:
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
Leviticus 20:13
No, people who likely share your mindset.
It's like bitching that everyone talked about all the African-Americans at the Charleston church massacre. After all, they shouldn't be talking about a "black" church....
Fuck me, but there are some really idiotically awful people posting here. I classify them into two groups, and they likely overlap in many cases. One group are the people who hate Muslims, and look for any opportunity to attack them, and the second are people who hate LGBT people, and look for any opportunity to minimize acts of bigotry against them.
Are you fucking kidding? 49 people, almost all who were homosexuals, were killed, in a gay nightclub popular in the area, by a man who, from everything we can gather, had a particular grudge against homosexuals.
But nope, nothing at all to do with gays. Nothing at all.
Ah my, bigots with mod points...
I spent some time on a traditionalist Catholic forum, and there's nothing the father of the shooter said that hasn't been said by many Catholic posters on that site. Most of those posters were clearly fluent English speakers, so I'm assuming they were American, Canadian, British, Irish and Australian, so we're talking residents of the First World, and they often had the same view. "Oh sure, you shouldn't attack homosexuals, but you know, they're going to pay for their unnatural acts!"
In fact, in certain religious communities, like traditionalist Catholicism, Evangelical Christianity (and related groups like the Pentecostals, Seventh Day Adventists, and the like), and in conservative Islam, there's an incredible obsession with homosexuality. Some of it may come from Judaeo-Christianity's roots, the Old Testament made it pretty clear homosexuals are to be executed, and even ol' St. Paul made it clear in the New Testament that homosexuals were part of a special group of really bad sinners. And this was passed on to Islam well, but all clearly linked back to the Mosaic laws prohibiting homosexual acts.
You should spend some time on these sites, to get a window into the kind of mind that believes there's an infinite omnipotent being that apparently obsesses about what is done with our genitals, and has a special place in Hell for those that insert them in the wrong place, or who pick a life partner that doesn't fit the narrow view. While Omar Mateen may be at the harsh end of the spectrum, before people pat themselves on the back for being so very secular and advanced, state-level sodomy laws were only finally thrown out in the US in 2003, and major religious organizations like the Catholic and Mormon Churches fought tooth and nail to prevent gay marriage, so while none of them advocated the murder of gays (well, most did it, there were some social conservative types who certainly want to make it illegal again), they were doing everything in their power to deprive homosexuals of full constitutional and legal rights.
I think a number of churches and religious sects really need to do some soul searching. This bizarre, almost fetishistic need to constantly rail against the LGBT community, to invoke conspiracies like the "Gay agenda", to constantly promote fear and, yes, hatred, needs to be confronted.
There is no question. There's a claim that Islam is especially prone to producing terrorists. Lots of ideologies produce violent terrorists. Many of the US's terrorist acts have been the acts of homegrown terrorists, often anti-government extreme anarchist types.
That's like claiming Ireland is more prone to producing terrorists because of the IRA and Protestant militias. It's a logical fallacy.
The shooter's old man sounds like a peach, a supporter of the Taliban who basically said, "I never taught my son to kill homosexuals", but then goes on to explain how God will punish them. One can imagine a man from a backwards culture who schooled his son in what to hate, and the son simply took it to the next level. After all, once someone has decided that God's gonna need to start killing some blasphemers, it's not that hard to decide that maybe God needs a helping hand, or in this case, an AR-15.
What I find so amusing about all of this is the people most like to spin stories about every Muslim being a villainous terrorist are also the people most likely to complain about the evil gay lobby.
I love how all the social conservatives who hate Muslims and homosexuals, have now started embracing homosexuals. It's kind of amusing, in a sick and ironic way.
I don't think he did anything of the kind. At best this is some crazed fantasist, at worst, it's some blowhard trying to sell an obviously absurd story.
Because no other ideological streams produce mass murdering terrorists. Oh wait, there's Tim Mcveigh, Hans Anders Breivik, and apparently a lone nut job James Howell, who has, according to reports, far right sympathies and was, fortunately, arrested before he could produce two attacks on the LGBT community in one weekend.
There are no lack of ideologically-driven lunatics out there who pick a group, whether that's gays, leftists, government employees, or whomever, and decide they must die in some greater cause. For fuck's sake, Ted Kaczynski's reign of terror was largely the product of his anarchist Ludditism.
And I think it should be mentioned that the people most often victimized by Islamic terrorists are their fellow Muslims.
It's theoretically possible, but considering how absurd the rest of the story is, I see no reason to believe this claim either.