Oddly enough, I met Anton LaVey while he was still alive.
If I kept typing I would be merely regurgitating that which you lacked in order to make a cohesive exchange. Now I'm just giggling at your huffing and puffing. Din't mean to hurt your special feelings.
I reemphasize my earlier point about Atheists lacking depth, humor or a life. I refer you to www.subgenius.com for further treatment of your condition.
People insult themselves with what I say. If I insult people, then I am the puppetmaster of their emotions. Who is in control here? I take no responsibility for your lack of control.
I'd call it an interesting speculative fiction based on a conglomeration of a traditonal history and one of my favorite scientists. Kinda expected more out of the movie tho. Again for the historical accuracy, will all the Atheistic history buffs form a line at the local library and reserve or check out Azimovs guide to the Bible, so they can find a little background for this conversation in a read understandable by even public school students. It should honestly give you a prerequisite knowledge of the Bible as history in words simple enough to soak in. I'm not going to ask anyone to spend years on the subject, just know a little before wasting both our times.
LOL, It's true , I have a personality disorder that makes me about as pleasant as " House" to be around. It's also true that I began a "whiz kid" at an early age and soaked up everything in sensory reach. Looking at my/. U.I.D. should show you I've been around here many years and the old regulars mostly accept me for the value I offer. Also true, I have a ROFLMFAO when your inability to cope results in your giving up with a drama queen ending. But I rarely post Anon Cow and use the mod system to keep myself in check far enough to communicate politely enough with the average/.er. My karma has been excellent for more than a year. I'm also not too concerned with your special feelings on the subject.You gonna start crying or somethin?
No, I do not ignore the creation story, I think that was a large point of this. I think it is the particular history of a family line and their observation of their "world" passed on verbally by Hebrew poetry to make it easy to remember. Obviously they weren't the only ones around or we'd have inbred ourselves out of viability in short damn order. We are not told they were the only ones created, just about their (Adam, Eve and theirs) circumstances. We are not told the mechanics of creation in the Bible, as if they would've understood it. We do not know the timeframe of YHVH day as compared to ours or how relativity plays into it. We are told later about 1000 years being a day to YHVH, but that is by a people who commonly didn't count over 1000 and multiplied it to insinuate "uncountable numbers". We have a history of the tribalism and spread of that family rather than people who actually lived 900 years we have the names of tribal founders and the lifespan of the tribe. Many of these names became geographic names of cities and settlements. YOU would be better off reading some compiled history books of more depth. Trust, a multitude of philosophers are under my belt as well as a multitude of other religions. You are the one losing equanimity, not me. I actually try to draw scientific and historical correlations to the record at hand as do those who studied before me. As mentioned elsewhere Azimovs history of the bible is a good place for a layperson to begin.
Yes, the Bible shares many similar stories with other cultures of surrounding areas. Abraham may have even gotten his monotheistic view from a particular Pharaoh during his time in Egypt. Ironic. History, like all the other obfuscated stories of other cultures, yet through archaeology and etymology we are able to extract history from the poetry and stories. Just because it makes you uncomfortable is no reason to shoot off your mouth so quickly. The vast numbers of scientists that have worked on it over the years are due some credit. If you think you are refuting some zealot who buys everything word for word you are barking up the wrong tree. Proceed w/caution...
"why would I even waste my time with these fairy tales?"
The ability to speak of it without sounding like an idiot, comes to mind.
Oddly enough Atheism is a religion, an irony that I love to pull out and poke into soft flesh. But, then, sports can be a religion,(you've seen them out there) The stock market can be a religion, etc...
" Most people I know that are "Believers" (and that's quite a few), have a religious schooling background..." The state of modern Religion as well as Public Education are equally as dark. For instance we are not taught of the Atheist roots of Abraham Lincoln or his blatant racism. We are not taught that the founding fathers smoked pot. We know they grew hemp,but, for instance we have record of Jefferson sending a "man to Turkey, at risk of life and limb, for a more potent strain of hemp." POTENT! The state of education everywhere has been dilluted for political reasons. Christianity is no exception and begins with Catholicism at the time of the Papal Roman Emperors. Yet, it is not lost and here I sit typing as others could as well. I love having knowledge that is controversial and causes discomfort. It kind of goes along with my personality disorder like pepper sauce on scrambled eggs. I may have seen Shubins book, I'll have to look. As for creation and science, I still don't see them as exclusive of each other. We aren't told HOW YHVH made the world, just how it was understood that YHVH made the world. Much is left wide open for YHVH by Relativity. Was that 7 days of ours or his, In the new Testament we are referred to a thousand year day on his part. Well 1000 was just about as high as anyone could count in that corner of the world, after that it was just multiplied to insinuate things like Legions, and other numbers too high to count. Hey it was a dusty blood soaked world and as I said it is only one of my many facets and focuses.
Not so good at Greek, but that is just a reference book away. Aramaic was spoken in the New Testament times, not so much Hebrew. We see the Romanization of names in that time as well. Paul/Saul was even a Roman Citizen and Claimed so. Emperors from Julius to Nero are covered in the timeframe of the New Testament. Oddly,probably thankfully we don't hear anything of Caligula. Nero was bad enough.
Well, with so much of the old testament verifiable by archaeology and the histories of other civilizations (equally as obfuscated) just calling it a myth is hardly accurate. Much is considered Hebrew poetry of the time. Like I said , you have to know what you're reading before blowing off your mouth.
No, it is a very good history book in that it chronicles very well an early civilization from tribalism to civilization 1900 years ago. The best of the middle eastern archaeologists uses it or they wouldn't very well have jobs. The geographical innaccuracies are few but understandable under the circumstances of knowing that their world was seldom further than they could "safely" travel by foot. You should get a cursory knowledge of middle eastern archaeology. Think of it as listing tribes by founding elders rather than a man who lives 900 years. Sometimes these become territories or cities. Imagine being in Armenia long before the Greek civilizations have reached you when suddenly the whole world you know floods, the whole world your fathers knew. Just south of a range of mountains called Ararat.Perhaps someone figured something out and actually built an ark and put in two of every local animal, er excuse me every animal two by two. Perhaps thats what you tell your kids when you managed to get the livestock onto a boat when the flood in that region came. Remember the first books of the Bible are an oral history to the Israelites and Judeans that was eventually written down and attributed to Moishe (The nonGreek version of Moses)There are other legends that say the same of a King Gilgamesh that did the same thing around the same time. There is evidence of a whopper flood in that area. Maybe it killed most everyone in the area.Thats pretty damn early on for a history that made it to print with any physical evidence on that scale. We would probably have a better early history from Egypt if the Great Library had not been destroyed by early conquest. Greeks, we have their early stuff, but this was before the Greeks shook hands with anyone in that area. I could go on, but I'm not providing a longwinded education for you. If you want to refute the ol' down home preachers who buy it word for word in the Greek/Latin without any background you're talking to the wrong man. If you want to refute me your'e going to have to do better than pop culture atheism you got in the parking lot outside the Slayer concert.
I added a subnote because although it appeared in my comment box it posted as -. My Hebrew representation of the word Q'na-bosem . A word that turns out to be cannabis.
Lack of a sense of humor from a Subgenius perspective. I don't see much tail in your future from a Dao perspective. Why don't you run along and whine about persecution sister.
Oh I see you haven't done any rigor either.. You would find some world history and literature classes beneficial. Elsewhere I mention a book in which the history, etymology and background of the bible is discussed in a scholarly way. It shouldn't shake your faith or lack thereof. But perhaps a better understanding, because let's face it, you're never gonna sing for a successful band, what else have you got to do with your time in order to not sound stupid.
Actually I have studied it as mentioned elsewhere in this thread. I've got better sources than you as mentioned elsewhere in this thread. I'm guessing you haven't gotten that far. s'alrite
It's a very long road. The easy part is an understanding of evolution, most people have a basic knowledge of this. The harder part is an understanding of the Bible as a book of history as well as the word. To do this and dispense with the nonsense of being asked to believe impossiblilities is to understand what it is you are looking at. Primarily it is a history book, an understanding of world history of Israel and pre- Israel and it's surroundings, politics and how this history survived in spite of being destroyed and by word of mouth and through translation is essential. A good place for the beginner to start, with an author familiar and enjoyed by most is to acquire a copy of the two volume set " Azimovs guide to the Bible" and let the scholar begin shining a flashlight around the dark for you. Later,study of Hebrew, Aramaic,Apocryphal books and early Christian and Gnostic writings, translations , their implications and politics come from a need for more knowledge. I've seen Issac Asimovs book floating around P2P,if this is out of print, as it was written in 1967. Be a good soul and make a donation to somewhere worthy in his name if you should download it. The understanding you gain will be in direct ratio to your hunger and effort. As for the "Skeptics Bible, it is an Atheist book by book refutation of the Bible done with all the rigor you would expect Beavis and Butthead to put into "disproving" the Bible as the word. Laughable, I think you can find it in full on some website. Just as lazy and argumentative as you would expect, but gives some insight into what is lacking in Atheism. For me to share my faith with you would be to write a book. I'll instead let you discover and decide for yourself.
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Oddly enough, I met Anton LaVey while he was still alive.
If I kept typing I would be merely regurgitating that which you lacked in order to make a cohesive exchange. Now I'm just giggling at your huffing and puffing.
Din't mean to hurt your special feelings.
I reemphasize my earlier point about Atheists lacking depth, humor or a life.
I refer you to www.subgenius.com for further treatment of your condition.
Tell that to the Universities with Archaeology dept.s, or the throng of Scientists that came before little ol me.
I never claimed to be St.fly
People insult themselves with what I say. If I insult people, then I am the puppetmaster of their emotions. Who is in control here? I take no responsibility for your lack of control.
Yeah, I remember Alta Vista being the stuff back when you could throw 14,400 modems at dinosaurs to distract them and make a clean getaway.
I thought it was a poor example as well as I pointed out. But , then, they keep referencing it to me. So I will keep bagging on it.
I'd call it an interesting speculative fiction based on a conglomeration of a traditonal history and one of my favorite scientists.
Kinda expected more out of the movie tho.
Again for the historical accuracy, will all the Atheistic history buffs form a line at the local library and reserve or check out Azimovs guide to the Bible, so they can find a little background for this conversation in a read understandable by even public school students. It should honestly give you a prerequisite knowledge of the Bible as history in words simple enough to soak in.
I'm not going to ask anyone to spend years on the subject, just know a little before wasting both our times.
Call a Waaaaahmbulance, the Anon Cow got her special feelings hurt.
LOL, It's true , I have a personality disorder that makes me about as pleasant as " House" to be around. /. U.I.D. should show you I've been around here many years and the old regulars mostly accept me for the value I offer. /.er.
It's also true that I began a "whiz kid" at an early age and soaked up everything in sensory reach.
Looking at my
Also true, I have a ROFLMFAO when your inability to cope results in your giving up with a drama queen ending. But I rarely post Anon Cow and use the mod system to keep myself in check far enough to communicate politely enough with the average
My karma has been excellent for more than a year. I'm also not too concerned with your special feelings on the subject.You gonna start crying or somethin?
No, I do not ignore the creation story, I think that was a large point of this.
I think it is the particular history of a family line and their observation of their "world" passed on verbally by Hebrew poetry to make it easy to remember.
Obviously they weren't the only ones around or we'd have inbred ourselves out of viability in short damn order.
We are not told they were the only ones created, just about their (Adam, Eve and theirs) circumstances. We are not told the mechanics of creation in the Bible, as if they would've understood it. We do not know the timeframe of YHVH day as compared to ours or how relativity plays into it. We are told later about 1000 years being a day to YHVH, but that is by a people who commonly didn't count over 1000 and multiplied it to insinuate "uncountable numbers".
We have a history of the tribalism and spread of that family rather than people who actually lived 900 years we have the names of tribal founders and the lifespan of the tribe. Many of these names became geographic names of cities and settlements.
YOU would be better off reading some compiled history books of more depth. Trust, a multitude of philosophers are under my belt as well as a multitude of other religions. You are the one losing equanimity, not me. I actually try to draw scientific and historical correlations to the record at hand as do those who studied before me. As mentioned elsewhere Azimovs history of the bible is a good place for a layperson to begin.
Yes, the Bible shares many similar stories with other cultures of surrounding areas.
Abraham may have even gotten his monotheistic view from a particular Pharaoh during his time in Egypt. Ironic.
History, like all the other obfuscated stories of other cultures, yet through archaeology and etymology we are able to extract history from the poetry and stories.
Just because it makes you uncomfortable is no reason to shoot off your mouth so quickly. The vast numbers of scientists that have worked on it over the years are due some credit. If you think you are refuting some zealot who buys everything word for word you are barking up the wrong tree. Proceed w/caution...
"why would I even waste my time with these fairy tales?"
The ability to speak of it without sounding like an idiot, comes to mind.
Oddly enough Atheism is a religion, an irony that I love to pull out and poke into soft flesh.
But, then, sports can be a religion,(you've seen them out there) The stock market can be a religion, etc...
" Most people I know that are "Believers" (and that's quite a few), have a religious schooling background..."
The state of modern Religion as well as Public Education are equally as dark. For instance we are not taught of the Atheist roots of Abraham Lincoln or his blatant racism. We are not taught that the founding fathers smoked pot. We know they grew hemp,but, for instance we have record of Jefferson sending a "man to Turkey, at risk of life and limb, for a more potent strain of hemp." POTENT!
The state of education everywhere has been dilluted for political reasons. Christianity is no exception and begins with Catholicism at the time of the Papal Roman Emperors.
Yet, it is not lost and here I sit typing as others could as well. I love having knowledge that is controversial and causes discomfort. It kind of goes along with my personality disorder like pepper sauce on scrambled eggs.
I may have seen Shubins book, I'll have to look.
As for creation and science, I still don't see them as exclusive of each other. We aren't told HOW YHVH made the world, just how it was understood that YHVH made the world. Much is left wide open for YHVH by Relativity. Was that 7 days of ours or his, In the new Testament we are referred to a thousand year day on his part. Well 1000 was just about as high as anyone could count in that corner of the world, after that it was just multiplied to insinuate things like Legions, and other numbers too high to count.
Hey it was a dusty blood soaked world and as I said it is only one of my many facets and focuses.
Not so good at Greek, but that is just a reference book away.
Aramaic was spoken in the New Testament times, not so much Hebrew.
We see the Romanization of names in that time as well.
Paul/Saul was even a Roman Citizen and Claimed so.
Emperors from Julius to Nero are covered in the timeframe of the New Testament. Oddly,probably thankfully we don't hear anything of Caligula. Nero was bad enough.
It's been my pleasure since my early whiz kid days to study the religions of the world along with psychology, physics, world history and on and on....
Well, with so much of the old testament verifiable by archaeology and the histories of other civilizations (equally as obfuscated) just calling it a myth is hardly accurate. Much is considered Hebrew poetry of the time. Like I said , you have to know what you're reading before blowing off your mouth.
Lol stamp collecting.
I was speaking of a historical record that fills in the gaps of the puzzle of the mideast.
No, it is a very good history book in that it chronicles very well an early civilization from tribalism to civilization 1900 years ago.
The best of the middle eastern archaeologists uses it or they wouldn't very well have jobs.
The geographical innaccuracies are few but understandable under the circumstances of knowing that their world was seldom further than they could "safely" travel by foot. You should get a cursory knowledge of middle eastern archaeology. Think of it as listing tribes by founding elders rather than a man who lives 900 years. Sometimes these become territories or cities. Imagine being in Armenia long before the Greek civilizations have reached you when suddenly the whole world you know floods, the whole world your fathers knew. Just south of a range of mountains called Ararat.Perhaps someone figured something out and actually built an ark and put in two of every local animal, er excuse me every animal two by two. Perhaps thats what you tell your kids when you managed to get the livestock onto a boat when the flood in that region came. Remember the first books of the Bible are an oral history to the Israelites and Judeans that was eventually written down and attributed to Moishe (The nonGreek version of Moses)There are other legends that say the same of a King Gilgamesh that did the same thing around the same time. There is evidence of a whopper flood in that area. Maybe it killed most everyone in the area.Thats pretty damn early on for a history that made it to print with any physical evidence on that scale. We would probably have a better early history from Egypt if the Great Library had not been destroyed by early conquest. Greeks, we have their early stuff, but this was before the Greeks shook hands with anyone in that area.
I could go on, but I'm not providing a longwinded education for you.
If you want to refute the ol' down home preachers who buy it word for word in the Greek/Latin without any background you're talking to the wrong man.
If you want to refute me your'e going to have to do better than pop culture atheism you got in the parking lot outside the Slayer concert.
I added a subnote because although it appeared in my comment box it posted as -.
My Hebrew representation of the word Q'na-bosem . A word that turns out to be cannabis.
Lack of a sense of humor from a Subgenius perspective.
I don't see much tail in your future from a Dao perspective.
Why don't you run along and whine about persecution sister.
Significant contributions to history.
Depth came to mind.
Oh I see you haven't done any rigor either..
You would find some world history and literature classes beneficial.
Elsewhere I mention a book in which the history, etymology and background of the bible is discussed in a scholarly way. It shouldn't shake your faith or lack thereof. But perhaps a better understanding, because let's face it, you're never gonna sing for a successful band, what else have you got to do with your time in order to not sound stupid.
Actually I have studied it as mentioned elsewhere in this thread.
I've got better sources than you as mentioned elsewhere in this thread.
I'm guessing you haven't gotten that far. s'alrite
It's a very long road. ,study of Hebrew, Aramaic,Apocryphal books and early Christian and Gnostic writings, translations , their implications and politics come from a need for more knowledge. I've seen Issac Asimovs book floating around P2P ,if this is out of print, as it was written in 1967. Be a good soul and make a donation to somewhere worthy in his name if you should download it. The understanding you gain will be in direct ratio to your hunger and effort.
The easy part is an understanding of evolution, most people have a basic knowledge of this.
The harder part is an understanding of the Bible as a book of history as well as the word. To do this and dispense with the nonsense of being asked to believe impossiblilities is to understand what it is you are looking at. Primarily it is a history book, an understanding of world history of Israel and pre- Israel and it's surroundings, politics and how this history survived in spite of being destroyed and by word of mouth and through translation is essential. A good place for the beginner to start, with an author familiar and enjoyed by most is to acquire a copy of the two volume set " Azimovs guide to the Bible" and let the scholar begin shining a flashlight around the dark for you. Later
As for the "Skeptics Bible, it is an Atheist book by book refutation of the Bible done with all the rigor you would expect Beavis and Butthead to put into "disproving" the Bible as the word. Laughable, I think you can find it in full on some website. Just as lazy and argumentative as you would expect, but gives some insight into what is lacking in Atheism.
For me to share my faith with you would be to write a book. I'll instead let you discover and decide for yourself.