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  1. Re:Fail on Nokia Insider On Why It Failed and Why Apple Could Be Next · · Score: 1

    'Fraid not, neither my dad nor GF knew what OS was on the phone they bought last, both bought on feel and...drumroll...price. Know how much I gave for my Android phone? $20, $75 including buying my card (went prepaid) and taxes. Would I have taken an iPhone or WinPhone for the same price? Sure i would, but there weren't any cheap iPhones and Lumias, plenty of cheap android phones, a cool dozen under $150.

    So geeks might know and care but I can tell you that as a retailer I can tell you most folks don't even know what OS they have on their desktop, much less their phone. iPhone users know they have an iPhone, they have no clue its also an OS (in fact I've had a few complain to me that Android apps won't run, they think a phone is a phone) and Samsung owners know they have a Samsung,

    Very few know what OS they have and if Nokia would have come out with a sub $100 Lumia? the numbers would have been a LOT better. Look at any price breakdown on the net, something like 85% of Android sales are in the sub $185 markets.

  2. Re:Chrome? on Epic: A Privacy-Focused Web Browser · · Score: 1

    Uhhhh...Miss AC? I was pointing out that OSS code is by its design NOT SAFE, or at least not safer than any other code. Perhaps you should take some basic reading comprehension classes before posting again, yes?

  3. Re:Nokia's fall stems from their 'bold' move on Nokia Insider On Why It Failed and Why Apple Could Be Next · · Score: 1

    1.- MS brought in engineers and secured new hardware,setting minimum standards the OMAP couldn't hit. If they wouldn't have done that the bean counters would have made them "get their money's worth" out of OMAP, a recipe for failure in the fast changing phone market.

    2.-While I do not have a WP8 phone (have an Android, bought strictly on price as it was just $20 USD) the praise for the hardware and design of the Lumia has been consistent, even those that hate MS admit its a good design,its the apps that are lagging behind.Remember that Nokia was cash poor (devaluation hurting their ability to borrow) so there is some question as to whether they could have even MADE the Lumia without the huge cash infusion.

    3.- Finally you can NOT go into a market against not one, not two, but FOUR major players, including 2 heavyweights (it was pointed out to me that Huawei was also cranking out Androids by then) with a "me too!" product, especially if the ONLY way you can survive is to take the customers of #1. Nokia was weighed down by their EU factories that made their per unit costs MUCH higher than the Asian builders and again without the ability to borrow the (probably billions) in capital required to close down their EU factories and move the whole thing to China? Their products would be overpriced and underpowered. Besides this is ignoring that over 85% of Android sales are in the under $185 price point, a price point that Nokia just couldn't hit. The other OEMs had hardware capable of running Android trivially,Nokia did not which meant major investment into a new design they didn't have. The N9 was running a crippled OS and really didn't have the power required to compete. It had no chance NOT because the OS was killed but because you could buy a better device with better hardware for cheaper from multiple vendors.

    The ONLY way they would have had a prayer with Android is to have a Steve Jobs caliber CEO, one with the muscle and power to fire a large portion of their employees and make a new start in Asia and its obvious that no such leader was there. Android isn't magic fairy dust, if you don't have killer product and a game plan to back it up its as useless as a Touchpad.

  4. Welcome to the USSA on Indiana Man Gets 8 Months For Teaching How To Beat Polygraph Tests · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Grab as much as you can from the government and wait on the stock bubble burst to make the whole thing come tumbling down. All you really can do now.

  5. Re:Chrome? on Epic: A Privacy-Focused Web Browser · · Score: 1

    Really? By whom? Can you name them? What are their qualifications?

    See you too have fallen for the myth, you think because it CAN be done it HAS been done when in reality you have NO proof, NO evidence at all really, that anybody other than Linus and a few devs have done anything with it, much less the kind of code audits required to certify its secure.

    Sorry, appeals to emotion are fail, bring some evidence and try again.

  6. Re:What about on the "Web" itself... on Epic: A Privacy-Focused Web Browser · · Score: 1

    Wow, thanks, I so rarely get to say this...WHOOSH! Kinda missed the point friend which was Tor is pointless if the NSA runs the exit nodes that you happen to go through because you just handed them the data, understand?

    To say Tor is the answer when its been reported several major exit nodes are NSA is like saying "I'm against MITM attacks!" so you just send your data to the NSA directly. You haven't changed anything, all you have done is make it easier for the one that is spying on you, that's all.

  7. Re:Fail on Nokia Insider On Why It Failed and Why Apple Could Be Next · · Score: 1

    Then you obviously haven't tried their feature phones as of late, because they suck. Its no different than how once upon a time if you wanted quality you bought Sony and then bean counters came in and cashed out the name, the same thing happened to the Nokia feature phones as frankly they are substandard even to Motorola and that is saying something.

    But don't take my word for it, if they have a Fred's or Family Dollar in your area go check 'em out, they have a ton of Nokia feature phones there and you can see the sound choices are "garbled" and "fuzzy". Like too many businesses the quality has gone out the window so they can squeeze every penny of profit per unit.

  8. Re:Replace that Europe with "in the world" on Nokia Insider On Why It Failed and Why Apple Could Be Next · · Score: 1

    And Columbia was the #1 maker of 8-tracks in 1984...your point? Nobody gives a shit about market numbers if the market is dying and the writing was already on the wall for dumbphones which was the ONLY market Nokia had share in!

    The year is 2010, Nokia is the #1 dumbphone maker, but has exactly squat when it comes to smartphones. Meanwhile a Chinese chip manufacturer ( Loongson I think) had come out not 6 months before with a SoC chipset that let Chinese assembly lines crank out dumbphones for just $3 a pop, that meant the death of the dumbphone market for Nokia as they couldn't compete on price (which is why nearly all dumbphones are Motorola now, they used the cheapo Chinese chip) so their share WOULD die, no doubt, the only question is how fast. They had zero experience in Android, an out of date SoC, and their competition was iPhone 2 and the latest from Samsung and HTC, both of which were running Froyo followed by Gingerbread which symbian had a zero chance of competing with. MeeGo was dead, being actively sabotaged by Intel who feared the ARM version would eclipse their X86 offering (which considering that last I checked Intel had yet to release an X86 SoC with LTE support isn't an unreasonable assumption to make) and both Symbian and their Java OS would have required ground up rewrites to compete with Android 2.x and iOS 2.

    So I'm sorry but being #1 in dumbphones in 2010 was about as useful as being the #1 8-track maker in 1984, your market is dying so being #1 in it is really not gonna help.

  9. Re:Nokia's fall stems from their 'bold' move on Nokia Insider On Why It Failed and Why Apple Could Be Next · · Score: 1

    Interesting? Really mods? You say "There was no reason Nokia couldn't have succeeded with Android" when that is frankly easy to point out the failures in that plan, 1.- Nokia's "strength" is supposedly hardware, yet they stuck with the TI OMAP which was waaaay out of date, 2.- Their phone designs were likewise dated and behind the curve, 3.- they would have been going up against not one, not two, but at least THREE competitors that ALL had much more experience with Android, had bigger buzz, and better advertising budgets.

    You seem to buy into the "Build Android and it'll sell" myth which is just that, over a dozen companies are cranking out Android phones and of those only three, Samsung,HTC,and LG have shown relatively consistent profits and in the case of LG those profits are quite small. Nokia had factories that were expensive to use, no experience in Android, or in much beyond dumbphones really, and 6 years of downward sales meant they didn't have nearly the budget the big three had for R&D and advertising. If Nokia would have went Android I'd be hard pressed to see how anybody could say it would be anything but a slaughter, as you have to bring your A game into a cutthroat market like that and Nokia hadn't had an A game for at least 3 years before bringing in Elop.

    Too much infighting, too much backstabbing, you just can't make a top line product with a toxic culture and THAT is what killed Nokia, not the choice of OS. Check out my earlier post with a link to the behind the scenes history of the MeeGo and you'll see with a culture THAT toxic? I don't care if Brin brought them android source code on a silver platter, nothing good would have come of it.

  10. Re:Fail on Nokia Insider On Why It Failed and Why Apple Could Be Next · · Score: 1

    If you want an example of the Nokia style fail? I'd say you can't get better than Palm, as they really are identical. In both cases they were at the top of their game but instead of trying to get ahead of the curve they rode the existing products until they were so far behind they could never catch up. With Nokia it was dumbphones and Symbian, with Palm it was Garnet, but in both cases you took what was once the #1 in their field and let it rot by playing it safe instead of trying to innovate.

  11. Re:What if NSA cash is sent to Adblock? on Epic: A Privacy-Focused Web Browser · · Score: 3, Informative

    Uhhh...Comodo is an Indian company that does enterprise security products, don't know where you got your info from. they have a branch in the USA but more large corps do, that don't make 'em a US company.

    I've personally been using them a couple of years now and have yet to see their browsers send a single bit of data I didn't specifically authorize and I do check my logs. If you opt in for their secure DNS then your DNS will naturally go through their servers (the same ones that they use for corporate deployments so its not like your data will be segregated, it'll be in the same pool as thousands of corps) and as far as their certs go? They had a break in, reported it to the public within a day and had the keys revoked upon finding out about the breach. personally I'd rather have a corp that admits when there is a breach, informs me, and then does everything they can to close the breach immediately than to have one that covers it up, but maybe that is just me. Again not like you don't have options and you can always build from source if none of them suit you.

  12. Re:OUCH on Man Killed By His Own Radio-Controlled Helicopter In Brooklyn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hey dude, before you get on your high horse, how about a little common sense? It was VERY much about personal responsibility because he was NOT killed by an accident, the chopper did NOT malfunction, the moron was sitting in a chair and having it land next to him when surprise! he got too close and took his own head off.

    So don't give us this "it could happen to anybody" bullshit because unlike this moron most of us? Not gonna be stupid enough to try to land a chopper with sharp whirling blades next to us while we park out fat behinds in a chair. it is one thing to have an accident, its another thing entirely to die strictly from a case of the stupids, this is firmly in the latter!

  13. Re:OUCH on Man Killed By His Own Radio-Controlled Helicopter In Brooklyn · · Score: 1

    Notice i got flamebait for daring to point that out? What happened to personal responsibility folks, the guy was 19, had years of flying these things and had enough $$$ to blow over $2k on a fricking toy? he had to know how insanely powerful that motor was and more than enough reason to show proper respect to the obviously VERY powerful "toy".

    Let me ask THIS question of those that modded me down...would you be showing this much sympathy for somebody that was twirling a gun and shot themselves? Because that is EXACTLY what we have here, a jackass that was showing off, not taking any precautions, and took his dumb ass out of the gene pool. I am supposed to feel bad about this? I don't feel bad for the idiot that plays with a cellphone and walks into traffic, don't feel bad for the idiot that blows his head off by cleaning a gun without even bothering to see if there is a round in it first, and I'm not gonna feel bad for somebody that takes a $2k+ gas motor with VERY sharp blades attached and then kills their fool self with it by acting like a moron and doing "stunts" while having the thing directly over them. Stupid is as stupid does folks..

  14. Re:Fail on Nokia Insider On Why It Failed and Why Apple Could Be Next · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Flag, bullshit on the field. Do you REALLY think having Nokia put out an Android, which has become a sharktank of cutthroat razor thins margins and which already had 3 major phone builders, Samsung,HTC, and LG, ALL of whom had MUCH more experience and frankly much better hardware (all Nokia had at the time was the TI OMAP chip which was long in the tooth even then) would have been a BETTER choice than taking a billions bucks and hoping MSFT could offer them a better deal?

    I'm sorry but if Nokia would have built an Android the only difference would have been how much faster they died, that's it. You do NOT go into a market that the competition has a huge lead in with nothing but a "me too" and that was all Nokia had, their offerings would have been a bad joke compared to Samsung and HTC which would have drank their milkshake. The majority of Android manufacturers are counting their profits in pennies, something that Nokia couldn't do with the factories they had. Maybe if they closed the doors and went to China maybe, but trying to compete in the vicious Android market on nothing but outdated hardware? Recipe for failure. Samsung and HTC have the better name recognition, bigger advertising budgets, and frankly they put out really solid products, and LG pretty much has the low end sales locked up. Nokia simply waited too long to get into the game and they didn't have the time to play catch up, and certainly not with Android.

  15. Re:Fail on Nokia Insider On Why It Failed and Why Apple Could Be Next · · Score: 1

    Apple is royally fucked alright, but not because of the toxic culture that killed Nokia, nope Apple is fucked for an entirely different reason and that is the "new hotness" problem.

    You see Apple has gotten spoiled by being the "only game in town" and thus being able to command premium prices but there is a downside to that strategy and it is thus...the longer they stay in a market? The more competition will show up and they'll end up in a race to the bottom which is something they are NOT interested in. We see this in both the PMP market, which now has dozens of iPod knockoffs (although frankly I think the whole PMP market is doomed, to be replaced by phones and tablets) and more importantly in both the phone and tablet market, where dozens of sub $200 smartphones and tablets give as good or better than Apple at MUCH lower margins.

    And for THIS reason is Apple fucked, they are a victim of their own marketing strategy and their stock expectations. To keep the stock up they HAVE to be "the new hotness" and find new markets to sell premium products to, they won't be able to continue to command premium prices when they are faced with competition offering as good or better for half the price, but where do they go now? The whole "smartwatch" bullshit? Its gonna be a flop, most young people aren't even wearing watches anymore from what I've seen and why would you bother paying $250+ for a watch that REQUIRES a smartphone to be useful, when you could use that money to get a better smartphone that frankly will do everything the watch does AND not need to be tethered to another device?

    So unless Cook can pull out a new market from his rear Apple has nowhere to go but down, at the last Hong Kong expo they were showing off dual core phones and tablets running Android 4.x that will retail for less than $100 USD, those kinds of low margins just aren't something Apple wants but without a new market they have no choice but to try to compete which will kill those sky high profits they have been making. Just look at how they have been keeping older designs manufactured and have come out with the mini, despite Jobs saying it was a dumb idea, its because they are already feeling the pressure from the low priced Android units. Problem is folks already have tons of mobile power, like X86 adding more performance is gonna equal diminishing returns simply because folks aren't taxing the new ones to any great extent, why buy a quad core with worse battery life when that dual core you already have works great?

    Without a new market they are trapped in a market that is more cutthroat by the day, with prices dropping by the day, and Apple has never been interested in taking razor thin margins for their products.

  16. Re:Fail on Nokia Insider On Why It Failed and Why Apple Could Be Next · · Score: 1

    And that isn't what is happening? Keeping much of Nokia's toxic culture and if rumors are true putting that moron Elop, whose "burning platform" memo out Osbourned the Osbourne effect, in charge of MSFT? You might as well put somebody from the Apple or Google board in charge, as they'll be the ones who benefit.

    that said Elop did NOT kill that company, like many companies it had a shitty board that sat on ass counting their money until the world passed them by. Just read up on the story of Maemo/MeeGo to see a perfect microcosm of why Nokia was fucked before Elop ever walked through the door. False starts, UIs thrown out at 75% done, backstabbing, everything we have come to expect from a corporate culture that has become toxic was in full bloom at Nokia. they were fucked long before Elop took the big chair, not that he'll do any better at MSFT, in fact he'll probably just stick with Ballmer's game plan which is full of fail and stupid.

  17. Re:"Poster child of privacy invasion" hyperbole on Epic: A Privacy-Focused Web Browser · · Score: 1

    And if you believe that? I have a bridge you might be interested in. Its already been reported that the NSA has had access to the Google and Yahoo DBs and a security letter trumps any and all subscriber agreements so if you are betting on that to keep your data out of big bro's hands? you are wasting your time dude.

    The moral of the story is thus: If a company is in the USA or UK? Give it up, the data is now in the hands of the NSA, it does not matter what the company says, if they are on US soil its NSA's data now.

  18. Re:What about on the "Web" itself... on Epic: A Privacy-Focused Web Browser · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Uhhhh...its already been reported that NSA is running several Tor exit nodes to collect the data, you DO know this, right? There has also been people who had their doors kicked down and all their computers hauled off because they ran a Tor exit node and somebody supposedly used it to look at child porn so even running your own exit node carries significant risks.

    I think everybody is just gonna have to accept the party is over and has been for awhile, and that any and every thing you do on the net needs to be treated like you were standing on a street corner holding up a sign as THAT is how little privacy you have now. And if the report is true that the NSA has the keys to HTTPS then running a proxy really isn't gonna do shit, they can set there with taps on the backbone and read it all in near real time and if they are doing a MITM on the backbone then that proxy isn't gonna do shit as those packets still have to get to your PC and they can just follow it back to the source.

  19. Re:Chrome? on Epic: A Privacy-Focused Web Browser · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Noooo but it DOES mean that a certain lie about FOSS must be faced the "many eyes" myth which is just that. Show of hands, how many here have actually done an extensive code audit of the latest Chromium source code? Firefox? Libre Office? What are your qualifications? Because the obfuscated C code contest shows you had better be DAMNED SKILLED to spot a malicious code insert, so how many years of security training do you have?

    The myth, which common sense can disprove, is that because something CAN be done it HAS been done. Well there COULD be werewolves but I don't think I really need to keep a pocket full of silver bullets, do you? Projects like Chromium and Firefox can easily get into tens and even hundreds of thousands of lines of code and that code is constantly changing. Since you have ZERO way of knowing if the changes are malicious you would need to audit not ONLY the code itself but also all changes AND compare what those changes did to not only the area the change occurred but to the entire program, because after all we have seen nasties in the wild that were harmless by themselves but when combined with code from another pwned program allowed an attacker entrance to the system.

    So now I hope that everyone can see why merely HAVING source code means nothing, because for it to mean anything you HAVE to have 1.- Security experts going over each and EVERY release with a fine tooth comb, 2.- Certifying that they have done so and its clean and 3.- be sure that said experts haven't been bought. The "many eyes" myth simply makes assumptions that are easily disproved and might have worked when the entire Linux source code could be handed over on a couple of floppies, when the kernel alone is over a million lines of code? Sorry but it just doesn't hold water folks.

  20. Re:What if NSA cash is sent to Adblock? on Epic: A Privacy-Focused Web Browser · · Score: 2

    Uhhhh...buying adblock would be as pointless as trying to "buy" Linux, there is already a dozen variations thanks to the source being out there. While I'm not a big fan of FOSS (since i think a lot of their so called "advantages" are built upon false premises) this is one thing they do have an advantage in, in that there really isn't any way to control any one project by buying it. If you are unsure of adblock there is adblock plus, one I think called "super adblock" or something like that, or if you want to go to the trouble you can do like old APK and mess with HOSTS or just run your own recursive DNS like I do, not hard to get blacklists of advertising servers these days.

    As far as trusting Firefox? So don't, again not like you don't have options. There is Comodo Icedragon, Seamonkey, IceWeasel and Kmeleon, and those are just sticking with the gecko engine, if you were to add the Chromium engine you would have another half a dozen easy to choose from and then of course there are those that use their own engine like QTWeb (uses QT framework with Webkit from KHTML) or OffByOne. again no need to stick with something you aren't sure of, plenty of choices out there. Frankly if the NSA wants to follow you though they have access to the backbone, all the obfuscation in the world isn't gonna protect you from a MITM attack.

  21. Re:Interesting on Epic: A Privacy-Focused Web Browser · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Same here and haven't had a problem with it and unlike this browser its used by millions (coming with Comodo Internet Security with VM mode for secure banking) so you are not gonna stick out like a sore thumb.

    The problem with going TOO niche is it would make you stick out all the more, if everyone wears a blue shirt and your shirt is a slightly different hue of blue? probably not gonna be noticed and won't trip any flags, if your shirt is neon orange? You might as well be holding a giant neon sign that says "Look at me, I'm up to something!". Its no different than how guys carrying pot really shouldn't be driving flashy red sports cars but driving some boring blue 4 door instead, you want to go off the radar without attracting attention for doing so.

    So while I'll keep an eye on this for the time being I'll stick with Comodo Dragon, it too has increased security and unlike this it is offered with most of Comodo's security products (and since nobody ever unchecks the defaults millions have it) and since it uses the same secure DNS that Comodo uses on their enterprise products you can just blend into the crowd. I wouldn't be surprised if some 3 letter agency has gotten a memo about this thing this very day, /. isn't exactly under the radar ya know.

  22. Re:End of a Dream on Martin Luther King Jr's Children In Court Over MLK IP · · Score: 1

    Ignoring the 6 witnesses to the shooting I take it? Every one of which stated that NOT ONCE was Zimmerman on the offensive, that right up until the shooting Martin had him down and was trying his damnedest to bash his brains out by bouncing his head off the curb?

    You frankly don't need the perp's testimony when you have BOTH eyewitnesses AND forensic evidence and both were in 100% agreement, Martin had no marks upon him EXCEPT his knuckles, Zimmerman had a lacerated scalp, broken nose, and several facial bruises, the evidence is clear and its only racists that refuse to even bother to look at the evidence which is clear and obvious as to the events.

  23. Re:OUCH on Man Killed By His Own Radio-Controlled Helicopter In Brooklyn · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Sorry Missus Coward but I have a fricking hard time feeling sorry for somebody who kills themselves with their own toy from the sounds of it doing some jackass stunt with the damned thing. Either have enough damned sense to use the thing with proper levels of safety or don't be surprised when your own stupidity takes you out of the gene pool.

  24. Re:Use some logic and it might make sense. on FOI Request Reveals UK Houses of Parliament Workers' Passion For Adult Content · · Score: 1

    But to have THAT many hits? I'm sorry but if it were a couple thousand I might buy that but at over 10,000 to less than a hundred? Sounds like a classic clickjacker attack to me.

    I had of all things a preacher bring in his new laptop with a clickjacker, I was recommended by a member of his flock for being discrete and needless to say the guy was ashamed and feeling like a fool, sure that somebody would think he was a perv because his PC would just spam porn pop-ups the second he hit the desktop. I told him it was NOT his fault, he had no way of knowing that brand new USB drive he had bought to store church records had a "security tool" that was nothing but a trojan clickjacker, nor could he have known something could come infected OOTB. He ended up paying me an extra $100 to make up a little flyer and come explain to the congregation about the dangers of infected USB drives and sticks and last I heard he is still passing out that flyer to new members as a public service.

    But I can tell you friend numbers THAT high? easily doable by a clickjacker bug, in fact at the last shop I worked before going out on my own we got a laptop and Doug decided to let it go, just to see if it could beat his previous record of over 800 pop-ups and infections? When this thing finally was done loading, a full two and a half HOURS later i might add, it had over 2300 infections and pop-ups! While that was pretty extraordinary a clickjacker opening 300-500 windows isn't rare and most clickjackers also will try to run a huge list of major exploits trying to get every PC on a network infected, really nasty bits of work.

  25. Re:End of a Dream on Martin Luther King Jr's Children In Court Over MLK IP · · Score: 2

    Actually I think its a coast thing as they have what many of us in the south call "coward's laws" where they try to punish anyone who ISN'T a total pussy and tries in any way, shape, or form to defend themselves. See for example the one in NYC where a thug had shot a clerk 4 times and the clerk managed to crawl to a gun and fire back, the prosecutor tried to argue that since the thug had his back turned, never mind that the thug obviously intended to kill the clerk, meant that the clerk was "no longer in fear for his life" and had no right to shoot back.

    Frankly I'm just glad it happened in FLA and not the deep south as we don't give a shit WHAT color a person is once a person is in fear for their life, which pounding their head into a curb certainly is, they can do anything they need to to save their life and that is that. Hell I had a friend that shot a guy dead in a bar once, cops get there and all it took was the witnesses to say "Crazy guy pulled out a knife and was coming for him" and nothing more was said, it was justified homicide.

    But to me the proof that it was nothing but reverse racism is the little fact that THIRTY PEOPLE were attacked by blacks after the shooting, nearly all said a variation of "kill a YT for Trayvon!" including ones that SET A KID ON FIRE...know how many of those were charged with hate crimes? Know how many screams of outrage did you hear from the administration or Sharpton? I think you know the answer, it was none.

    Reverse racism is STILL racism and that is what we had here, look at the incredible hoops the media jumped through trying to keep Martin's FB page out of the spotlight (thanks anonymous!) because it was filled with pics of guns, dope, his own recipe for "purple drank" and a nearly 3 page dialog about how much he got off on beating "punks and snitches" and in great detail, such as how he liked to hear the bones break and to watch their blood spurt. I wonder how many here defending Martin has read his FB postings? How many will even bother now that they know about it?

    To me this is the worst part of political correctness, as it always ends up with the person having to divorce reality, like 1984 and newspeak. After all that is the ONLY way they can make the Martin case fit their black and white view of things, Martin MUST have been an angel (because he is black and therefor an oppressed protected class) and Zimmerman HAD to be white, not mixed race, and a racist because who else would shoot a black man, even if they were bashing the other person's head in?