It's not like Microsoft don't want you to use.NET anyway.
It doesn't matter what MS wants. Here is a slightly edited to remove redundancy and first party items list of the top selling software for desktop Windows:
QuickBooks Pro 2011
Adobe Photoshop Elements 9
Norton 360
Kaspersky Internet Security 2011
Quicken
Dragon NaturallySpeaking
Adobe Photoshop Lightroom
Autodesk Sketchbook
TurboTax
VHS to DVD 5.0 Deluxe
Rosetta Stone Spanish
None of that is written in a significant fraction of.net or java and none of it will work on Windows 8 ARM.
Your choice. The rest of us will just click the little "OK" button on the update manager. But, like I said in my previous post, you can do it the hard way if you must.
The person to whom you were responding was speaking of fundamental issues in Ubuntu's update cycle.
Why don't you just come on out and admit it. Ubuntu is not Windows and that's really all the "fundamental issues" you cocksuckers need to incessantly troll it on this website every day. The guy way up the thread was complaining that "ZOMG UBUNTU DOESN"T UPDATE FIREFOX FOR HOURS OR DAYS!!!11" Which is perfectly understandable and to be expected. Canonical doesn't write Firefox. And the binary for Linux Firefox is not written specifically for Ubuntu. There is at least some testing that has to be done before security fixes can be put into the main repos. If they just dumped it in and it broke you trolls would just crow about that. One recourse I suggested if you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE IT NOW*phlegm trailing* is to just download it from the website. And if that's not good enough, you can install the Firefox maintainer's PPA that always has the latest and will update with the rest of the OS. And if that's still not good enough, you can enable backports and unreleased updates in your package manager. But, that's just Firefox, Chrome comes with it's own repository so it is always up to the minute including its built-in flash and pdf reader. Of course, we all know that none of that matters since Ubuntu isn't the blessed Windows so no matter what it does, for you trolls, it can't win.
Therefore, issues with Ubuntu must be addressed in a manner that accommodates the needs of regular users
That's why people just wait for the updates to be released in the repos but again, that's not good enough because you might have to wait, a fucking day.
Your statement that you personally do not enjoy focusing on the needs of average users does not make your position any more valid; rather, it makes your experience less relevant to this conversation.
The only conversation here is me arguing with a bunch of trolls. And if you don't think Ubuntu fully patched from the official repositories is good enough then you are a fool. Now go on ahead and start your but but but, Linux and market share and blah blah blah. I'll happily keep me, my workplace and my family virus free.
P.S. Put the fucking thesaurus down; your verbiage is so contrived I can still smell the glue.
What does the average Joe have to do with me or the person I responded to? I know how to keep my computer and the computers I'm responsible for updated. Anybody I do business with needs to hire competent admins to secure their stuff or my business goes elsewhere. Some peoples passion is helping Joe User. Mine isn't.
Where do think any linux software comes from? Chrome/chromium comes from Google. Adobe reader comes from Adobe Flash comes from Adobe. All of it can be downloaded from the respective websites the second it is released.
Wow. I respect your opinion but I'm sure glad you aren't running things. I love my Droid and I shudder to think how things would be if there were One True Mobile OS(TM) to rule them all. What would it be? Palm? I'm doing development work on Android right now and I kind of like the fact that there are niches yet to be filled. If I fill them, I can get paid. As a matter of fact, I'm having a hard time coming up with anything overall that doesn't benefit from competition. Cell phone companies, governments, automobiles, graphics cards. You name it, competition helps provide lower prices, better services, and continuous innovation. You say you don't like java and I assume what you are saying is you don't like cross platform code executed in virtual machines. Or maybe it's just Java itself and how it's implemented. Whatever it is apparently, it doesn't bother most other developers considering its popularity.
java is accounting for more and more flaws including multiplatform trojans that Run Anywhere.
How is this any different than Windows being ubiquitous so in effect, trojans "Run Anywhere". Except where Windows isn't ubiquitous. In those places, the trojans don't run at all. And even the java trojans, for instance, the one that kept us all entertained a couple of weeks ago, only ran on Windows.
Once they have incentive, I see no reason they will not expand to include everyone, nevermind java, just plain attacking based on user agent..
Nobody says they won't but their job will be much harder.
Also, what happens to the market when you need...
You do what people always do when faced with choice. You weigh the advantages and disadvantages then hand your money over. That decision is made millions of times daily for mobile phone/tablet operating systems and the consumers benefit from massive levels of innovation and development. Wish we could get some of that on the desktop.
Tell that to both Microsoft and Apple that either have or are in the process of integrate "app store" (repo under a different name) into all of their major platforms. Windows 8, Window Phone 7, iOS, and OS X are all going to have this.
Installing the operating system is a given. Installing build-essential is not.
So, your argument hinges on the fact that root is required for installing one meta-package necessary for compiling and installing every other application as regular user? What is your point? I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt both yesterday and today. You are a troll. Thanks for the entertainment.
And, just for the record...
games and tax software don't qualify as "an application that is useful
are 2 categories that many people do not find useful.
Most users of repository enabled operating systems do exactly that. There is no reason to believe that the trend would not continue if proprietary OS's, i.e., Windows adopted this functionality. The uptake of the Mac app store appears to be fairly modest but it is accelerating according to the sources I've looked at.
(B) what they are looking for IS in the repository
I don't know what would be in a Windows repo but I do know that the vast majority of common and not-so-common functionality is fulfilled on Debian by the repositories.
(C) no malware is in the repository.
It is a fool's errand to blindly assume there will be no malware in a repository. There have even been a couple of incidents in Linux's history of this happening but it is exceedingly rare and dealt with very quickly upon discovery.
considering that many of these malicious downloads are the result of email links, website fraud, and google search results? So long as people are going on the internet, and it is possible to bypass the repository, internet scammers will convince people to do download malware.
No solution is perfect. Even iOS is vulnerable and it is the paragon of locked down walled garden. However, it stands to reason that the incidence of malware would decrease which is a victory.
Hat's off to you. I must make one final point though. When you say "packages", of course you are correct that they have to be installed as root and no one ever disputed that. The OP used the word "applications" which is a superset of packages and does not have the root limitation within the context of this conversation.
By "application", I mean everything in the.deb,.rpm, or.msi package
Then why didn't you say that in the first place? Instead, you argued the man down by essentially saying "a package designed to be installed by root has to be installed by root". Just admit you're arguing the wrong point instead of backpedaling and you might leave with some credibility intact. He was obviously referring to software compiled from source 99 percent of which can be installed in $HOME without root powers.
Why lie? What does that accomplish? alan@alan-office:~$ sigtool --list-sigs | grep -i linux | sort
Backdoor.Linux.Small
Backdoor.Linux.Small-1
Backdoor.Linux.Suki.A
DDoS.Linux.Fork
DoS.Linux.Blitz
DoS.Linux.Chass
DoS.Linux.Forkbomb...
and on and on. You have no credibility. Please don't bore me anymore.
Interestingly enough, many people see the torrent sites almost as an ad-hoc repository. Need CD burning software? Now, of course, you and I know that that gold doesn't really glitter. You can count on almost every single thing in that list to come complete with the trojan du jour. Now, if people had a real repository of software, they could just fire it up and look for the same thing and be virtually certain that nothing in that list would contain any malware at all. Of course with the ability to install anything you want despite the repos, some people would still pirate but eventually a good percentage of folks would get the message and the incidence of malware would decrease.
I think of the term 'malware chaser', it's like 'ambulance chaser' but applies to alternative OS users who see a story about malware on Windows. Always there to pimp their OS which is no better just less used.
Obviously you like Windows. It is unfortunate that Windows users are attacked so frequently and I really do think a solution needs to be found. It seems reasonable to me that if there were a healthy mix of desktop operating systems in the marketplace malware authors would have a much harder time spreading their trash around and Windows users would be much better off. That being the case, wouldn't you want alternative choices to be brought to people's attention whenever it is relevant? Operating system diversity is already happening with the advent of tablets and mobile phones, and internet enabled set top boxes/tv's taking up a larger and larger share of people's "screen time" so whether you agree with this or not, Windows market share on the internet is going to decline so you may as well make the best of it.
Er, because you can't get karma for funny but you can for informative so many people mod that way? There is also the philosophical argument that anything that is particularly funny is meta-informative anyway since depending on the context of the "joke" it tells you as much about yourself and others who think it's funny as what it is actually overtly talking about.
IBM was directly questioned by the judge during the SCO trial if they were paying Pamela Jones. They denied this. If they were, you can bet your bottom dollar that SCO would have found the smoking gun and ran to the judge to tell him about it. Judges hate liars and this would have severely tarnished IBM's credibility in his eyes. This didn't happen. PJ is no shill.
Hey, you abusive piece of shit, the man is talking about having two separate "registries". One for system/user settings and another for third party applications. Having one registry segrated by ACL's is not the same. Why he wants that, I don't know but at least understand that that's what it is.
Slashdot Mirror
It's not like Microsoft don't want you to use .NET anyway.
It doesn't matter what MS wants. Here is a slightly edited to remove redundancy and first party items list of the top selling software for desktop Windows:
None of that is written in a significant fraction of .net or java and none of it will work on Windows 8 ARM.
Abusive strawman rant illiterate bullshit.
Did I sum up your post tidily enough?
Win 7 boxes just sold, still waiting on 2 new laptops to come in. Windows is selling quite well
Yeah, and in that time, McDonalds just sold another 5 million hamburgers. Quantity != quality, douche bag.
Your choice. The rest of us will just click the little "OK" button on the update manager. But, like I said in my previous post, you can do it the hard way if you must.
GP's post was just written in proper English, I suppose the lack of swearing and CAPITAL LETTERS confused you.
No, I'm just not easily impressed by somebody that sounds like they just got a 3.0 in their freshman creative writing class. Apparently you are.
THERE IS NO COMMAND LINE IN WINDOWS...
Dude, you are a fucking moron. That just became my new sig.
The person to whom you were responding was speaking of fundamental issues in Ubuntu's update cycle.
Why don't you just come on out and admit it. Ubuntu is not Windows and that's really all the "fundamental issues" you cocksuckers need to incessantly troll it on this website every day. The guy way up the thread was complaining that "ZOMG UBUNTU DOESN"T UPDATE FIREFOX FOR HOURS OR DAYS!!!11" Which is perfectly understandable and to be expected. Canonical doesn't write Firefox. And the binary for Linux Firefox is not written specifically for Ubuntu. There is at least some testing that has to be done before security fixes can be put into the main repos. If they just dumped it in and it broke you trolls would just crow about that. One recourse I suggested if you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE IT NOW*phlegm trailing* is to just download it from the website. And if that's not good enough, you can install the Firefox maintainer's PPA that always has the latest and will update with the rest of the OS. And if that's still not good enough, you can enable backports and unreleased updates in your package manager. But, that's just Firefox, Chrome comes with it's own repository so it is always up to the minute including its built-in flash and pdf reader. Of course, we all know that none of that matters since Ubuntu isn't the blessed Windows so no matter what it does, for you trolls, it can't win.
Therefore, issues with Ubuntu must be addressed in a manner that accommodates the needs of regular users
That's why people just wait for the updates to be released in the repos but again, that's not good enough because you might have to wait, a fucking day.
Your statement that you personally do not enjoy focusing on the needs of average users does not make your position any more valid; rather, it makes your experience less relevant to this conversation.
The only conversation here is me arguing with a bunch of trolls. And if you don't think Ubuntu fully patched from the official repositories is good enough then you are a fool. Now go on ahead and start your but but but, Linux and market share and blah blah blah. I'll happily keep me, my workplace and my family virus free.
P.S. Put the fucking thesaurus down; your verbiage is so contrived I can still smell the glue.
What does the average Joe have to do with me or the person I responded to? I know how to keep my computer and the computers I'm responsible for updated. Anybody I do business with needs to hire competent admins to secure their stuff or my business goes elsewhere. Some peoples passion is helping Joe User. Mine isn't.
Where do think any linux software comes from? Chrome/chromium comes from Google. Adobe reader comes from Adobe Flash comes from Adobe. All of it can be downloaded from the respective websites the second it is released.
Er, if it bothers you that much, go to getfirefox.com and download the latest version like I did?
You are up to three examples on. There are 30,000 packages available for Ubuntu. Sounds like a pretty good ratio to me.
java is accounting for more and more flaws including multiplatform trojans that Run Anywhere.
How is this any different than Windows being ubiquitous so in effect, trojans "Run Anywhere". Except where Windows isn't ubiquitous. In those places, the trojans don't run at all. And even the java trojans, for instance, the one that kept us all entertained a couple of weeks ago, only ran on Windows.
Once they have incentive, I see no reason they will not expand to include everyone, nevermind java, just plain attacking based on user agent..
Nobody says they won't but their job will be much harder.
Also, what happens to the market when you need...
You do what people always do when faced with choice. You weigh the advantages and disadvantages then hand your money over. That decision is made millions of times daily for mobile phone/tablet operating systems and the consumers benefit from massive levels of innovation and development. Wish we could get some of that on the desktop.
Tell that to both Microsoft and Apple that either have or are in the process of integrate "app store" (repo under a different name) into all of their major platforms. Windows 8, Window Phone 7, iOS, and OS X are all going to have this.
Installing the operating system is a given. Installing build-essential is not.
So, your argument hinges on the fact that root is required for installing one meta-package necessary for compiling and installing every other application as regular user? What is your point? I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt both yesterday and today. You are a troll. Thanks for the entertainment.
And, just for the record...
games and tax software don't qualify as "an application that is useful
are 2 categories that many people do not find useful.
Source archives require installing build-essential or your platform's equivalent, which is a package and requires root.
Installing the operating system itself requires root. You're splitting hairs.
Besides, not all kinds of application can be distributed as source code due to lack of proven methods of development cost recovery.
Obviously those applications are outside the scope of what we're talking about.
They could, if (A) they fired it up and looked,
Most users of repository enabled operating systems do exactly that. There is no reason to believe that the trend would not continue if proprietary OS's, i.e., Windows adopted this functionality. The uptake of the Mac app store appears to be fairly modest but it is accelerating according to the sources I've looked at.
(B) what they are looking for IS in the repository
I don't know what would be in a Windows repo but I do know that the vast majority of common and not-so-common functionality is fulfilled on Debian by the repositories.
(C) no malware is in the repository.
It is a fool's errand to blindly assume there will be no malware in a repository. There have even been a couple of incidents in Linux's history of this happening but it is exceedingly rare and dealt with very quickly upon discovery.
considering that many of these malicious downloads are the result of email links, website fraud, and google search results? So long as people are going on the internet, and it is possible to bypass the repository, internet scammers will convince people to do download malware.
No solution is perfect. Even iOS is vulnerable and it is the paragon of locked down walled garden. However, it stands to reason that the incidence of malware would decrease which is a victory.
Hat's off to you. I must make one final point though. When you say "packages", of course you are correct that they have to be installed as root and no one ever disputed that. The OP used the word "applications" which is a superset of packages and does not have the root limitation within the context of this conversation.
By "application", I mean everything in the .deb, .rpm, or .msi package
Then why didn't you say that in the first place? Instead, you argued the man down by essentially saying "a package designed to be installed by root has to be installed by root". Just admit you're arguing the wrong point instead of backpedaling and you might leave with some credibility intact. He was obviously referring to software compiled from source 99 percent of which can be installed in $HOME without root powers.
In defense
I'm sorry. In defense of what? I wasn't slagging Windows in the slightest, merely touting the benefits of software diversity. Do you not agree?
I know of someone in my Linux Users forum who had a whole rootkit...Novel SLED
Sounds like your friend needs to consume some text.Maybe he should have tried this.
Worse ClamAV only scans for Windows viruses
Why lie? What does that accomplish?
alan@alan-office:~$ sigtool --list-sigs | grep -i linux | sort
Backdoor.Linux.Small
Backdoor.Linux.Small-1
Backdoor.Linux.Suki.A
DDoS.Linux.Fork
DoS.Linux.Blitz
DoS.Linux.Chass
DoS.Linux.Forkbomb... and on and on. You have no credibility. Please don't bore me anymore.
Interestingly enough, many people see the torrent sites almost as an ad-hoc repository. Need CD burning software? Now, of course, you and I know that that gold doesn't really glitter. You can count on almost every single thing in that list to come complete with the trojan du jour. Now, if people had a real repository of software, they could just fire it up and look for the same thing and be virtually certain that nothing in that list would contain any malware at all. Of course with the ability to install anything you want despite the repos, some people would still pirate but eventually a good percentage of folks would get the message and the incidence of malware would decrease.
I think of the term 'malware chaser', it's like 'ambulance chaser' but applies to alternative OS users who see a story about malware on Windows. Always there to pimp their OS which is no better just less used.
Obviously you like Windows. It is unfortunate that Windows users are attacked so frequently and I really do think a solution needs to be found. It seems reasonable to me that if there were a healthy mix of desktop operating systems in the marketplace malware authors would have a much harder time spreading their trash around and Windows users would be much better off. That being the case, wouldn't you want alternative choices to be brought to people's attention whenever it is relevant? Operating system diversity is already happening with the advent of tablets and mobile phones, and internet enabled set top boxes/tv's taking up a larger and larger share of people's "screen time" so whether you agree with this or not, Windows market share on the internet is going to decline so you may as well make the best of it.
Without administrative access, how would "an user" (anything like "an hero"?) install an application that is useful and not malicious?
Millions of people do it daily. The walled garden has its benefits.
Er, because you can't get karma for funny but you can for informative so many people mod that way? There is also the philosophical argument that anything that is particularly funny is meta-informative anyway since depending on the context of the "joke" it tells you as much about yourself and others who think it's funny as what it is actually overtly talking about.
IBM was directly questioned by the judge during the SCO trial if they were paying Pamela Jones. They denied this. If they were, you can bet your bottom dollar that SCO would have found the smoking gun and ran to the judge to tell him about it. Judges hate liars and this would have severely tarnished IBM's credibility in his eyes. This didn't happen. PJ is no shill.
You would be recommending that users not use Bing whether this feature were present or not.
Please remove the tinfoil headwear. You look ridiculous.
Hey, you abusive piece of shit, the man is talking about having two separate "registries". One for system/user settings and another for third party applications. Having one registry segrated by ACL's is not the same. Why he wants that, I don't know but at least understand that that's what it is.