I really like KiCAD and use it often. However the built in autorouter needs some serious rework and someone with a mathematical background to fix the PCB autorouting. It is a very complicated problem.
Thanks!
Andrew Lynch
PS, yes, I am aware of and use FreeRouting.net. They are great but are a closed source proprietary tool.
Build a low cost home brew computer. The N8VEM SBC is designed to teach basic principles of computer hardware and software. The hardware is cheap, readily available, all the information is free (beer/speech). It is designed for quick, easy, and reliable construction using simple tools.
The N8VEM project is open and all design information for hardware and software are freely and publicly posted. There are many N8VEM builders (>100) and an active community. The design is scalable from a single board computer with minimal parts and simple IO (serial & parallel) to a complete microcomputer.
mailing list http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem
wiki http://n8vem-sbc.pbwiki.com/
booting a small OS from ROM is old news...
on
Phoenix BIOSOS?
·
· Score: 1
Everything old is new again... 8 bit microcomputers have been doing things like this for years. It is exactly how the N8VEM home brew computer boots its OS. The Z80 boots CP/M from a 1 MB "ROM drive" and uses the SRAM for its temporary storage. There are many other examples of similar implementations.
Does your cost computation take into account the disposal costs associated with getting rid of the old machine? What about the costs of procuring, operating, and disposal of the replacement router? Does your cost computation involve the environmental impact and remediation necessary to clean up the mess of trashing still useful equipment?
If you are assuming that you can dispose of the machines for free by dumping them in a trash dumpster then I suggest you should reread the article as that is the root cause of the problem to begin with. I think you will come to another conclusion if you take into account the true life cycle costs of procuring new equipment compared to just the delta cost of $/KWHR of operating a dedicated router vs an old PC.
Unsafe dumping of electronics with toxic metals is creating a massive "unfunded liability" similar to the shipping industry did with the unrestrained usage of asbestos several decades ago. Yes, it is cheaper in the short term but those local optimizations have a nasty habit of coming back to bite you many years later.
In general, I think ATI cards are not as well supported in Linux as are the NVidia video card chipsets. However, the ATI video card portion of the AIW is supported by ATI proprietary video driver and apparently the results are respectable. The proprietary ATI driver only supports Radeon 8500 and later chipsets though. The rest are supported by the Xorg "ati" driver.
As for the tuner section of the AIW, the story is not so good. This is the best I think you can hope for:
The AMICUS script does support the ATI video cards with both the proprietary driver for the newer ones and an X install for the older ATI video cards. Ironically, the ATI proprietary driver installer is itself an X application so it implicitly assumes you already have X installed and configured *before* you run it. Strange.
Back to the topic, don't throw away old hardware, find a new use for it! Help your neighbors and coworkers salvage old PCs by making them useful in other things. Most PCs built since 1998 can be at least part of a PVR system. Older ones can be routers or media servers.
When I send in old PCs to the local computer recycler they have been stripped of anything useful and are usually just the old cases, ancient motherboards, and truly broken stuff. I keep the salvaged pieces kept in plastic boxes for when I help other people fix their old PCs. The whole collection fits in a medium sized shelving unit.
I am continually amazed at finding whole PCs by the side of the road, on the curb for trash pick up, etc -- often complete with personal data! I like to think it is a public service to gather these old clunkers up, scrub the hard disks of personal data, salvage what I can, and put the rest in an appropriate recycling facility.
Decoding MPEG2 is CPU intensive so if you are going to use pure CPU only decoding using an older PC is probably not viable. With pure CPU only decoding (with no video chipset help) a full size HDTV stream is difficult even for a 3.0+ GHz P4. At a minimum with HD MPEG2, you should use a Xv and/or XvMC capable video card like one with an NVidia chipset. Maybe some of the ATIs support XvMC now or unichrome chips.
Please keep in mind, the point of the thread is with just a little imagination this whole PCs in the waste stream problem could be dramatically reduced. By finding new useful purposes for old PCs the amount of waste is reduced because they are not thrown away to begin with.
Yes, older PCs are not suitable for all applications, such as a HDTV PVR, but they can do a lot of other useful things. They can be a router, an MP3 server, a media server, a general purpose PC for someone who cannot afford a new one.
Andrew Lynch
PS, if anyone has an unwanted ATX motherboard with CPU & RAM, or an needed TV tuner or video card, they would like to donate please contact me offline. I would like to repair an old broken PC for free / open source software development.
Some limited HDTV PVR functionality can be achieved using older PCs but not full HDTV functionality though. The part an old PC could do relatively easily is perform the backend database server portion. Recording HDTV streams is easy using an HD 3000 or whatever, serving them and other media over a network is easy too.
Most old PCs (Pentium 400MHz or better) can do a decent job of backend (database) and frontend (display) of standard definition signals (720x480) whether it is from analog NTSC source or digital ATSC (substitute your TV broadcast format here). A lot depends on the video card.
An old PC could even display SDTV (720x480 or 704x480) and possibly even the mid level HDTV signal (1280x760) depending on the processor throughput and video card, etc.
The hard part is displaying the HDTV signal at true HD resolutions such as 1920x1080i. However, with XvMC even that is possible with *relatively* old hardware but it gets harder and riskier the more you push it.
The point is not to go out and buy the latest greatest PC just to make it a PVR when you can reuse an old PC to do the same thing. Same thing for a router or a general purpose PC.
Rather than throw old PCs into the trash and fueling the waste problem find new uses for them.
For example, old PCs 386 or later, can be reused as a router/firewall. They provide excellent security for your home LAN while keeping it out of the waste pile. Being floppy based, Freesco does NOT require a hard disk! Install the software and reuse the PC or give it to someone who will. See:
Later PCs, such Pentium 400 MHz or later, can be reused as MythTV PVRs by adding an inexpensive TV tuner ($20-$30) I have gotten PCs as old as P2 266MHz 128 MB to have some limited PVR functionality. (contact me if interested in old PC PVRs)
These are just three low cost methods I have personally used to recycle old computers. Use your imagination and Google, and you can see there are many other options too. Don't throw it away, make the old PC into something useful reuse it or give it to someone who will!
Second, I know that OSSW Home Page is not pretty. Its small and ugly. I started it because I believe that quality Open Source Software for Windows does exist, but its scattered to the four corners of the internet. I am trying to build an archive that can be used to promote OSSW and eventually help to test the Wine project.
I know that I am not going to compete with the Wine gurus as a programmer so this is my contribution. I am also hoping that some larger software distributor web site (ARE YOU FOLKS AT TUCOWS.COM READING THIS THREAD?) will pick this Open Source Software for Windows banner and run with it.
Third, Open Source Software for Windows really splits into two subcategories:
1. Cygwin Win32 un*x compatibility library and derivatives based on it such as Debian GNU/Win32
http://commit.winehq.com/~lynch/DebianGNU-win32. html
The programs that run in this environment are basically high quality ports of un*x/Linux OS programs. Very nice, but not really what I am looking for though.
2. Native Win32 apps released under a DFSG compatible license such as Blue Ice HTML editor, GNU wget, GNU emacs, GNU chess etc. These are much closer to Windows and are nearly impossible to find. They are much harder to port to un*x/Linux because the porting libraries (Wine, etc) are still being developed.
Finally, the native Win32 Open Source programs are proving to be the most elusive. However, this is were I believe the real payoff is. Windows has TONS of basically free, but not open source, software just waiting to be ported to Linux once the porting libraries are done. Having an active Open Source community for windows helping in the porting process *may* open some of these authors up to using an Open Source licenses. I can only hope. If this community is to ever exist, it must start someplace.
Again, thanks for the plug.
I am open to constructive criticisms and contributions to the OSSW webpage are always welcome--particularily new content!
http://commit.winehq.com/~lynch/OSSW.html
Thanks! Andrew Lynch lynchaj@yahoo.com
*disclaimer* I am not affiliated with, nor do I speak for, the Wine or Debian projects. I am just an advocate with a web page.
Slashdot Mirror
Write a new PCB autorouter for KiCAD! If that is not appealing you could integrate the Topological autorouter with KiCAD.
http://anthonix.resnet.scms.waikato.ac.nz/toporouter/
I really like KiCAD and use it often. However the built in autorouter needs some serious rework and someone with a mathematical background to fix the PCB autorouting. It is a very complicated problem.
Thanks!
Andrew Lynch
PS, yes, I am aware of and use FreeRouting.net. They are great but are a closed source proprietary tool.
Build a low cost home brew computer. The N8VEM SBC is designed to teach basic principles of computer hardware and software. The hardware is cheap, readily available, all the information is free (beer/speech). It is designed for quick, easy, and reliable construction using simple tools.
The N8VEM project is open and all design information for hardware and software are freely and publicly posted. There are many N8VEM builders (>100) and an active community. The design is scalable from a single board computer with minimal parts and simple IO (serial & parallel) to a complete microcomputer.
mailing list http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem
wiki http://n8vem-sbc.pbwiki.com/
Everything old is new again... 8 bit microcomputers have been doing things like this for years. It is exactly how the N8VEM home brew computer boots its OS. The Z80 boots CP/M from a 1 MB "ROM drive" and uses the SRAM for its temporary storage. There are many other examples of similar implementations.
http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem
http://n8vem-sbc.pbwiki.com/
Does your cost computation take into account the disposal costs associated with getting rid of the old machine? What about the costs of procuring, operating, and disposal of the replacement router? Does your cost computation involve the environmental impact and remediation necessary to clean up the mess of trashing still useful equipment?
If you are assuming that you can dispose of the machines for free by dumping them in a trash dumpster then I suggest you should reread the article as that is the root cause of the problem to begin with. I think you will come to another conclusion if you take into account the true life cycle costs of procuring new equipment compared to just the delta cost of $/KWHR of operating a dedicated router vs an old PC.
Unsafe dumping of electronics with toxic metals is creating a massive "unfunded liability" similar to the shipping industry did with the unrestrained usage of asbestos several decades ago. Yes, it is cheaper in the short term but those local optimizations have a nasty habit of coming back to bite you many years later.
Andrew Lynch
In general, I think ATI cards are not as well supported in Linux as are the NVidia video card chipsets. However, the ATI video card portion of the AIW is supported by ATI proprietary video driver and apparently the results are respectable. The proprietary ATI driver only supports Radeon 8500 and later chipsets though. The rest are supported by the Xorg "ati" driver.
r _HowTo_(English)/
As for the tuner section of the AIW, the story is not so good. This is the best I think you can hope for:
http://mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/ATI_All-in-Wonde
Maybe some day the tuner section will be supported by Linux and / or MythTV. Possibly, this is may happen some day but I wouldn't hold your breath.
http://www.rulerofearth.com/
The AMICUS script does support the ATI video cards with both the proprietary driver for the newer ones and an X install for the older ATI video cards. Ironically, the ATI proprietary driver installer is itself an X application so it implicitly assumes you already have X installed and configured *before* you run it. Strange.
Back to the topic, don't throw away old hardware, find a new use for it! Help your neighbors and coworkers salvage old PCs by making them useful in other things. Most PCs built since 1998 can be at least part of a PVR system. Older ones can be routers or media servers.
When I send in old PCs to the local computer recycler they have been stripped of anything useful and are usually just the old cases, ancient motherboards, and truly broken stuff. I keep the salvaged pieces kept in plastic boxes for when I help other people fix their old PCs. The whole collection fits in a medium sized shelving unit.
I am continually amazed at finding whole PCs by the side of the road, on the curb for trash pick up, etc -- often complete with personal data! I like to think it is a public service to gather these old clunkers up, scrub the hard disks of personal data, salvage what I can, and put the rest in an appropriate recycling facility.
Andrew Lynch
Decoding MPEG2 is CPU intensive so if you are going to use pure CPU only decoding using an older PC is probably not viable. With pure CPU only decoding (with no video chipset help) a full size HDTV stream is difficult even for a 3.0+ GHz P4. At a minimum with HD MPEG2, you should use a Xv and/or XvMC capable video card like one with an NVidia chipset. Maybe some of the ATIs support XvMC now or unichrome chips.
Please keep in mind, the point of the thread is with just a little imagination this whole PCs in the waste stream problem could be dramatically reduced. By finding new useful purposes for old PCs the amount of waste is reduced because they are not thrown away to begin with.
Yes, older PCs are not suitable for all applications, such as a HDTV PVR, but they can do a lot of other useful things. They can be a router, an MP3 server, a media server, a general purpose PC for someone who cannot afford a new one.
Andrew Lynch
PS, if anyone has an unwanted ATX motherboard with CPU & RAM, or an needed TV tuner or video card, they would like to donate please contact me offline. I would like to repair an old broken PC for free / open source software development.
Some limited HDTV PVR functionality can be achieved using older PCs but not full HDTV functionality though. The part an old PC could do relatively easily is perform the backend database server portion. Recording HDTV streams is easy using an HD 3000 or whatever, serving them and other media over a network is easy too.
Most old PCs (Pentium 400MHz or better) can do a decent job of backend (database) and frontend (display) of standard definition signals (720x480) whether it is from analog NTSC source or digital ATSC (substitute your TV broadcast format here). A lot depends on the video card.
An old PC could even display SDTV (720x480 or 704x480) and possibly even the mid level HDTV signal (1280x760) depending on the processor throughput and video card, etc.
The hard part is displaying the HDTV signal at true HD resolutions such as 1920x1080i. However, with XvMC even that is possible with *relatively* old hardware but it gets harder and riskier the more you push it.
The point is not to go out and buy the latest greatest PC just to make it a PVR when you can reuse an old PC to do the same thing. Same thing for a router or a general purpose PC.
Andrew Lynch
Rather than throw old PCs into the trash and fueling the waste problem find new uses for them.
For example, old PCs 386 or later, can be reused as a router/firewall. They provide excellent security for your home LAN while keeping it out of the waste pile. Being floppy based, Freesco does NOT require a hard disk! Install the software and reuse the PC or give it to someone who will. See:
http://www.freesco.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FREESCO/
Later PCs, such Pentium 400 MHz or later, can be reused as MythTV PVRs by adding an inexpensive TV tuner ($20-$30) I have gotten PCs as old as P2 266MHz 128 MB to have some limited PVR functionality. (contact me if interested in old PC PVRs)
http://amicus.sourceforge.net/
Practically any PC, 386 or better, can run lightweight Linux distributions such as DSL or Debian for general purpose computing.
http://damnsmalllinux.org/
http://debian.org/
These are just three low cost methods I have personally used to recycle old computers. Use your imagination and Google, and you can see there are many other options too. Don't throw it away, make the old PC into something useful reuse it or give it to someone who will!
Andrew Lynch
When you can more easily install Debian and MythTV.
http://amicus.sourceforge.net/
Get AMICUS for MythTV on Debian. Just what you need and no more. Meant for new users and low end PCs. Easy to follow guide with menu driven script.
Forget all that MS hoopla. Now go get a decent Linux PVR!
Brent, others,
. html
First, thanks for the plug. That was nice.
Second, I know that OSSW Home Page is not pretty. Its small and ugly. I started it because I believe that quality Open Source Software for Windows does exist, but its scattered to the four corners of the internet. I am trying to build an archive that can be used to promote OSSW and eventually help to test the Wine project.
I know that I am not going to compete with the Wine gurus as a programmer so this is my contribution. I am also hoping that some larger software distributor web site (ARE YOU FOLKS AT TUCOWS.COM READING THIS THREAD?) will pick this Open Source Software for Windows banner and run with it.
Third, Open Source Software for Windows really splits into two subcategories:
1. Cygwin Win32 un*x compatibility library and derivatives based on it such as Debian GNU/Win32
http://commit.winehq.com/~lynch/DebianGNU-win32
The programs that run in this environment are basically high quality ports of un*x/Linux OS programs. Very nice, but not really what I am looking for though.
2. Native Win32 apps released under a DFSG compatible license such as Blue Ice HTML editor, GNU wget, GNU emacs, GNU chess etc. These are much closer to Windows and are nearly impossible to find. They are much harder to port to un*x/Linux because the porting libraries (Wine, etc) are still being developed.
Finally, the native Win32 Open Source programs are proving to be the most elusive. However, this is were I believe the real payoff is. Windows has TONS of basically free, but not open source, software just waiting to be ported to Linux once the porting libraries are done. Having an active Open Source community for windows helping in the porting process *may* open some of these authors up to using an Open Source licenses. I can only hope. If this community is to ever exist, it must start someplace.
Again, thanks for the plug.
I am open to constructive criticisms and contributions to the OSSW webpage are always welcome--particularily new content!
http://commit.winehq.com/~lynch/OSSW.html
Thanks!
Andrew Lynch
lynchaj@yahoo.com
*disclaimer* I am not affiliated with, nor do I speak for, the Wine or Debian projects. I am just an advocate with a web page.