Build a Homemade Media Center PC

DigitalDame2 writes "PC Magazine's Loyd Case explains how to build a Media Center PC of your own, how to choose the parts for a custom project, and tips for the Motherboard." I imagine you guys might have some other opinions on what parts and tools to use for the task...

Comments

What a deal

[coaxeus]

Total Cost $2,276 USD, what a bargain! Personally I just used an oldish laptop (few ghz, gig ram, 128mb vid) and a good $150 tuner card, mythtv (or gbpvr, or whatever) and wireless keyboard, mouse, remote. Smaller, quieter, and a bit cheaper. Total cost -- $200~

Re:What a deal

[LiquidCoooled]

I would hazard that you mean $200 after accounting for the laptop.
You might get lucky and have one with a high enough spec lying around, but I doubt most people will.

Re:What a deal

[Anonymous Coward]

Total Cost $2,276 USD, what a bargain! Personally I just used an oldish laptop [...] Total cost -- $200~

Yeah, but your system doesn't promote their advertisers!

Re:What a deal

[ackthpt]

Total Cost $2,276 USD, what a bargain! Personally I just used an oldish laptop (few ghz, gig ram, 128mb vid) and a good $150 tuner card, mythtv (or gbpvr, or whatever) and wireless keyboard, mouse, remote. Smaller, quieter, and a bit cheaper. Total cost -- $200~

Well, pshaw, you could go that route, or you could go the route I did, which was to make my primary PC able to do all that rubbish to begin with so I don't have to go out and spend $$$ (or £££.)

Re:What a deal

[coaxeus]

Yeah, I had an old dell laying around. You could pick it/equivalent up these days for less than $500, so lets say total cost $700 max

Re:What a deal

[ackthpt]

Yeah, but your system doesn't promote their advertisers!

Man. I'm always missing out on something.

Re:What a deal

[Jozer99]

I built a PVR this summer, total cost of about $3,000, as a workstation/gaming computer/PVR. Its no different from setting up a regular computer. How come we get so many tutorials, its not hard, especially with Windows Media Center: Put the system together, install Windows, tell it your area code, and watch TV.

Re:What a deal

[PFI_Optix]

$2,276
-308 There were four tuner cards. You'll only have one.
-125 Open source sounds good to me, no OS to buy.
- 60 Apparently *you* can get a remote, keyboard, and mouse
                      for under $50. They had $130.
- 99 You obviously don't want the DTS-610
- 16 No memory card reader?
- 78 Only one optical drive for you. That old laptop have a DVD-ROM?
- 30 Because you don't need the DVD decoder software either

$1,560 to build a new PC that would still substantially outfeature your "oldish" laptop.

Oh, and 400 GB HDD? Nope. 160 GB notebook drive from Newegg adds $50.

Now, for those of us who don't have a laptop that would still fetch roughly half the price of this HTPC if it were new, this is a fairly viable solution. And for those who are looking for a high-quality, professional-grade solution, $2,000 isn't THAT bad.

Re:What a deal

[Anonymous Coward]

MythTV sucks if you've ever had the chance of using Media Center.

I can say this because I've used both, and ended up going back to the Microsoft solution, of which MythTV makes it look good!

My setup: dvb-t card (nova-t), geforce4 w/tv out, athlon xp 2700, lots of storage etc.

Mythtv, took eternity to setup, had to manually give it the frequencies so it could find the channels. When setup, guide data took a while using xmltv, and following guide after guide to set it up. Even once setup, its nowhere near as complete or stable as Media Center using dvb-t. Getting to this point took hours.

With Media Center, its very simple to get all working without having to go to such great lengths or following guide after guide to get something done. So long as your hardware is somewhat recent and has BDA drivers, and you install rollup update 2, things are smooth for myself.

MythTV has some serious issues. Tuning into an encrypted channel crashes it. Yes I know its the mpeg codec's problem but surely MythTV can check the channel beforehand! Media center can cope with that.

The GUI hasnt got anything on Media Centers, even with custom designs.

Then there's those little things like droping a DVD full of xvid's into the system - Media Center will ask to copy it to the system and watch it.

You have to exit the TV section entirely to goto something else - Media center can do picture in picture no problem regardless of what your watching.

It can also record the stream to the hard drive in the format it came, mpeg2, without an issue with dvb-t. MythTV couldnt do this, nor could it provide a good quality recorded stream without having to use the CPU under dvb-t.

There are other things, but I can tell you now, from my own experience that dvb-t under MythTV just isnt ready for primetime. Finally, why bother spending lots of hours configuring and time tweaking it later when Media Center does it nicely first time around?

Oh wait, this is slashdot...

Re:What a deal

[Ascoo]

"Oh, and 400 GB HDD? Nope. 160 GB notebook drive from Newegg adds $50."

I'm not sure where you found that but... newegg only sells one 160GB notebook HDD (the Seagate Momentus 5400.3 2.5 inch drive), and it goes for over $350. But you're right.. You can probably strip away most of the things found in the article.

Re:What a deal

[flipsoft]

Or you could just get the Shuttle XPC M1000 media center. Already installed w/HDTV. http://sys.us.shuttle.com/M1000.aspx I got one of these when they first came out and I loved it. I think the biggest selling point for Microsoft MCE is the ability to install plug-ins. The two best plugins for MCE are azureus with KangarooTV lets you download latest torrents of TV shows. The other is MyNetflix. Which lets you select your upcomming Netflix discs using your remote. Also MCE does a good job with Xvid files over the network. Plus the 6600LE supports hardware decoding of H.264 files, a much needed feature. -flipsoft

Re:What a deal

[DrXym]

It does sound outrageously expensive. I imagine though I have never built such a device that a thin case + BTX motherboard + HD + tuner + IR controller, mouse & keyboard wouldn't set you back more than $500. Slap Myth TV on it and you have a tinker toy which can become a useful PVR / media system with some work.

One thing that has bothered me about mythtv when I've looked at the docs is how horribly painful it is to build and configure. Just getting DVD playback functionality requires a zilion libs. Just trying to wade through the instructions of setting it up completely puts it out of the hands of regular home users.

I wonder if there is an easy way to use it which does not require reading a dozen HTPC howtos. I have no problem building kit myself, but I'm not a masochist either. It strikes me that an analogy is that MS Media Center edition is like a portakabin - ugly but it arrives prebuilt and does what it's meant to do. Conversely, MythTV is like a pile of bricks, concrete, pipes being dumped on your site from which you can build any beautiful quirky thing you like. Sometimes you just want the latter if it means having something that actually works. MythTV doesn't have to be a pile of bricks, it could be the Huf house of PVRs if someone put the effort into making it work straight from the CD.

Re:What a deal

[Anonymous Coward]

I just finished(*) building my Myth box. P3-500 (free), 256MB (80), PVR-250 (150) and a 250 GB HD (150): total cost ~$380 CDN. While that's more than $200 and I could happily put in another $400, only a PC columnist could manage to spend $2500 on the same setup. That's also perhaps $80 more than you spent (or are you going to tell me that you didn't need a PVR and large HD?).

I don't think I could go back to an all-in-one solution: it is completely invisible behind the TV and does everything I need it to do from the remote. No keyboard, no mouse, no desk. I don't have to turn on my computer and, if I want to play BF on my PC or get some work done, I don't need to worry about interference. The media box also draws much less power and is much quieter than my workstation: important when the system is on 24/7. If I want to watch a movie, I can just pick up the remote and watch it: no fudging with dual screens, mice or keyboards. My GF likes the fact that my living room doesn't look like a server room and that the system is about as easy to use as a TV.

All that said, I have a friend with a setup similar to your's and it does work OK (though I cringe to see him mousing around to try to skip the commercials). If you don't have a GF, don't mind a desk in your living room and you can't or won't do a Linux setup, then this might be the way to go. (Mean Guy Tip: if you have a friend with this set up, move the coffee table mouse very slowly while he's trying to work...)

(*) Like a train set, a Myth box is never finished: you can always add or tweak something.

Re:What a deal

[Anonymous Coward]

Media Center Edition is anything but ugly.

Re:What a deal

[ackthpt]

(or are you going to tell me that you didn't need a PVR and large HD?)

My video card has a tuner and came with software to record to HD. Thanks to my bud who works at Seagate, i have about 1/2 Tb of HD for recording, among other things. Combined usage helps spread what else would be twice paid costs. I have the first week of the invasion of Iraq on drive D:

Re:What a deal

[Professor_UNIX]

My setup: dvb-t card (nova-t), geforce4 w/tv out, athlon xp 2700, lots of storage etc. Mythtv, took eternity to setup, had to manually give it the frequencies so it could find the channels. When setup, guide data took a while using xmltv, and following guide after guide to set it up. Even once setup, its nowhere near as complete or stable as Media Center using dvb-t. Getting to this point took hours.

MythTV is primarily focused on American users. If you asked 95% of us what the hell DVB was you'd get a blank stare. We have cable and DirecTV and primarily use Hauppauge WinTV tuner cards. All this shit sets up very easily under MythTV. When you start focusing on obscure technologies like DVB (some european TV thing) then you have to expect less support than in the USA. For example, XMLTV is a thing of the past with American users since Zap2It labs opened up their guide feed for free to open source project users. All you do is find your cable or satellite network on their web site and set it and your MythTV box downloads guide data for free. It's 500 times better than the XMLTV-screen-scraping garbage was and we all owe Zap2it labs a huge thanks for doing this.

Re:What a deal

[entrex]

How could it be total of $200 if you have a "few ghz, gig ram, 128mb vid laptop" along with a $150 tv tunner. My IBM T40 was $1200 USED and thats only 1.5 ghz, 512mb...

To be more realistic something like this is going to cost around 500+ depending on local market conditions or what deals you can find off online.

Oh, and how the hell does a story like this even make it on slashdot?

Re:What a deal

[Afrosheen]

The whole aim of the Knoppmyth project is to simplify installing and maintaining MythTV. It's free, boots from the cd, and installs with little interaction. The latest versions are even handling IR Blaster configuration (which is normally a pain in the ass). When a new version comes out, you run the backup (from a menu), pop in the install cd, select auto install, and wait. When it's finished it'll restore your backup automagically and bam, you have the latest and greatest.

  Keep an eye on http://mysettopbox.tv/ if you're interested in MythTV or Knoppmyth. There's a big update coming soon due to MythTV's .19 landmark release.

Re:What a deal

[Anonymous Coward]

That's REDICULOUS where are you living and whats the currency worth there cuz that's absolutely disgusting, i've created this media pc myself YEARS ago which i still use, and at what cost FREE. i grabb'd a shitty old case, had a heap of old throw out motherboard and cpu's, P3 500MHZ, 64mb geforce with AV OUTs, i got a $70 tv tuner i bought years ago also, my movies are all on the network so no need for dvdrom (MYSELF) and through SHARED DVDROMS, aswell as all the rest, this pc is also used as a slight server with a few very minor things running on it. so its on all the time, and it definately works brilliantly, are you someone who wants to spend entirely tooo much money on a system that needs nothing ? , or are you a PC supplier trying to sell people your stuff for 30x the price required :).
its all good, but ya could build a working multimedia pc IF YOU HAD TO PAY FOR EVERYTHING for no more than 600$ (AUD$)

Re:What a deal

[LivingSacrifice]

Brutal.

I set up mythtv for the first time in about 3 hours. With zap2it and all the various tools available to the end user, it was trivial. The software is powerful, and does everything I want it to.

But hey, if you are bent on using a proprietary, expensive solution, so be it.
It must be better, cause you paid for it right?

Re:What a deal

[yodamitsu]

I must admit I tried Myth TV and struggled with the DVB (also used in Australia) drivers too but they are around. However my question is, can (or does) the Microsoft Media Centre suffer from the same network issues (Virus,Trojans etc) as XP/2000, once coneected to the net to download media??

Re:What a deal

[lolocaust]

yes, its just windows xp with the mce app running on top of it.

Re:What a deal

[CohibaVancouver]

There were four tuner cards. You'll only have one

Not true - You need at least two. For example, on Sunday night I need to record both The West Wing and The Simpsons. How do you manage that with only one tuner card?

Re:What a deal

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm.. You say MCE is installed easily.. It is not... How did you manage to play MPEG2 content ? You need to install some kind of codec stuff before this even works. (Like a 'real' version of PowerDVD) DVB never worked out of the box here in Holland. Only Analog TV cards are supported.
Then you try to play some DivX stuff, you need codecs again. MCE records in its own proprietary DVR-MS format which can not easily be converted to other formats. Only one version of Nero Vision can convert the DVR-MS stuff to DVD format and this feature was removed in later releases...
Mythtv can be quite a pain to set up but since KnoppMyth it is a breeze.. My system handles 2 PVR250 cards, a Siemens DVB-C and a Hauppauge DVB-S card in the (noisy) Celeron 1.5 backend in the attic and two quiet frontends in the livingroom and bedroom, it just runs and runs and runs...
For MCE you need an hefty CPU just to run a frontend because of the DVR-MS conversion it does when recording.

Re:What a deal

[aztracker1]

DVR-MS is Mpeg2 with some additional meta data... MCE requires a video card with onboard mpeg2 for this reason... the actual tv takes very little overhead... it's the level of disk access/speed that tends to take up some resources, and make things a bit sluggish... Also, some cards do better than others, the nvtv cards to pretty well (analog)... open to suggestions on a good hd card... I've used both mce and myth, and prefer mce myself...

As for nero, I have v7, and it supports the dvr-ms files in nero vision, there are some other utils that support it to, they kinda suck though... MCE also supports burning to dvd directly, but that doesn't let you nuke the commercials first.. nero is probably the best bet for that.

Only one problem

[Loconut1389]

Only one problem, MS Explicitly says they don't sell XP MCE.

Re:Only one problem

[Loconut1389]

Meant to add, wonder where they got the $125 figure?

It seems like on alright project aside from the one hiccup.

Re:Only one problem

[Anonymous Coward]

You can buy an OEM version:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82 E16832102311

Re:Only one problem

[Loconut1389]

Hmm, I didn't know that. Cool. I stand corrected. Do they sell an upgrade from XP Pro?

Re:Only one problem

[wgaryhas]

Ever Heard of OEM? You can buy an oem copy of windows when you buy the parts at the same time.

Re:Only one problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft says alot of things: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82 E16832102357

Re:Only one problem

[MarkChovain]

They don't sell a retail version by itself, but you can get an OEM edition, and you can buy it bundled with some tuner cards. The problem is to be made into a mode of pure watching, a state of the same. In fact, if the environment is technologically-driven, so you crumple up the URL from the last tab you were already expecting.

Re:Only one problem

[OverlordQ]

The problem is to be made into a mode of pure watching, a state of the same. In fact, if the environment is technologically-driven, so you crumple up the URL from the last tab you were already expecting.

I believe I speak for a large % of /. when I say:

What the hell did you just say?

Re:Only one problem

[EXMSFT]

No - since it is technically OEM only, as with all other OEM versions of Windows - it's clean install, and there's no financial upgrade path (i.e. reduced price) to replacing Pro with Media Center.

Re:Only one problem

[MarkChovain]

What the hell did you just say?

It's pretty clear, I think. The best way to generate some buzz about a once great company by throwing the computer frequently, even when you're dead.

Re:Only one problem

[wwmedia]

hmm doesnt stop it appearing on every bittorent site out there

Re:Only one problem

[ssyladin]

WTF?!?!

Re:Only one problem

[Loconut1389]

I completely did not thoroughbred transistor dimension altercation fooseball understand you.

Re:Only one problem

[Trelane]

yet....

Re:Only one problem

[saboola]

What am for you not understanding? In state of pureness driven to URL expecting ultimate POWER. Simple.

Re:Only one problem

[StikyPad]

I have no idea, but it smells a lot like fish...

Babelfish.

Re:Only one problem

[nachoboy]

Microsoft clarified the System Builder rules in August 2005. From the System Builder site [passport registration or firstborn required]:

OEM system builder software packs are intended for PC and server manufacturers or assemblers ONLY. They are not intended for distribution to end users. Unless the end user is actually assembling his/her own PC, in which case, that end user is considered a system builder as well.

Basically, you are free to buy Microsoft software labeled as "OEM" as long as you count yourself as the system builder (no hardware purchase required even!).

The price difference between OEM and retail software is due to two mitigating factors:

1) OEM software is forever married to the machine on which it is first installed.
2) Microsoft doesn't provide support for OEM products - they leave that up to the OEM.

As long as you don't want to call up Microsoft for support, OEM software is just fine. But considering support rates ($35 a pop, or $245 for a professional incident), retail software may be a deal for those who lack basic troubleshooting skills, internet search capabilities, or impressionable tech-savvy relatives.

Re:Only one problem

[MarkChovain]

In state of pureness driven to URL expecting ultimate POWER.

Huh? What on Earth have you been smoking? Is there ever a point where I realize that the breadth of what happens to the bulk of my base belong to you?

Re:Only one problem

[Ucklak]

I read through that (interesting) and thought ...{F this, I'm gonna build me a MythTV than comply with that crap}

Re:Only one problem

[Trelane]

Ah. Interesting. Thanks for the clarification.

That said, to me, marrying software costing 3x or more the cost of a Pro Linux version (no strings attached) to a particular PC (particularly when it's debatably married to the hardware and not the virtual PC) is rather onerous, certainly much more so than the lack of support.

Re:Only one problem

[selfdiscipline]

You sir. are the most intelligent autonomous being I have ever come across. Now tell me about your emotions.

Re:Only one problem

[Etienne Steward]

The problem is to be made into a mode of pure watching, a state of the same. In fact, if the environment is technologically-driven, so you crumple up the URL from the last tab you were already expecting.

I believe I speak for a large % of /. when I say:
What the hell did you just say?

This guy is pretty slick. It's called a Markov Chain, the specific application in this case is a Word Based Dissociated Press Props to you Mark, it's a slick little beastie. Add this intellegence to a bot and you've got a real spam machine there.

On the other hand, it could just be my ex-boss posting....

Re:Only one problem

[MarkChovain]

You think so? Well why don't you shove your whitecollar friends at the seams? They have sexual relationships with several people during their lifetime, but they are with them. I have no effect on people.

Re:Only one problem

[Anonymous Coward]

.model small
.notreallycode

main proc

      mov zig,4 ;great justice.

main endp
end main

Re:Only one problem

[Stripe7]

What about the fact that no available video card on the market supports HDCP? Hard to blame manufacturers since the HDCP spec still has not been finalized.

Re:Only one problem

[rpg25]

As long as you don't want to call up Microsoft for support, OEM software is just fine. But considering support rates ($35 a pop, or $245 for a professional incident), retail software may be a deal for those who lack basic troubleshooting skills, internet search capabilities, or impressionable tech-savvy relatives.

I've actually called Microsoft for support recently, when the activation process on a retail copy of XP Pro went south and the install destroyed itself. By the time the whole experience was over, I pretty near wanted to kill myself, and I was out a staggering number of hours. It never worked.

Free support like this doesn't sound like a deal to me... I would have been better off with no support, and not throwing more good time after bad.

It's like the old W.C. Fields joke: "First prize is a one-week vacation in Philadelphia." "Second prize is a two week vacation in Philadelphia."

Second prize is more paid-for Microsoft tech support.

Re:Only one problem

[Anonymous Coward]

This is ridiculous!!! that's the sort of power i'd look at for building a decent gaming machine!! not to mention the fact that it's running mirosoft software, surely that's a big loss of efficiency right there!

Myself and a friend are planning on building our own type of media centre pc which will use approx half the porcessing power of this build and run on 1/10 the power requirements!

$2000 for a media centre is a joke - $200 for a gaming pc is a joke! not a very convincing idea in my books.

Learn gentoo, compile myth tv and it'll run on almost anything, add an mpeg decoder board - job done.

do it yourself...

[whizzard]

...for over $2200? I realize it needs to have a lot of bells and whistles, but that seems excessive somehow.

Re:do it yourself...

[coaxeus]

Yeah I'm not sure if you need Athlon 64 X2 3800+, 2gb ram, 400gb disk, or 430watts of power to watch TV or a dvd. The easiest thing to mark of that list is obviously the windows OS, mythtv or any of the free PVR softwares out there are vastly superior

Re:do it yourself...

[everphilski]

Yeah, but Windows is only gonna knock off $129; you are probably gonna save more money by scaling down the processor, buying a 100gig hard drive and just a gig of RAM.

Honestly I was impressed with Windows MCE compared to MythTV. It is easy to bash Microsoft but MCE is a nice piece of software; I'm not sure how you quantify "vastly superior", I'd be interested in seeing your metric.

Re:do it yourself...

[moon-monster]

I built our media center PC for much less than that. It uses an old athlon XP 1200+ which is more than adequate for the job. The system runs freevo on a free linux distribution, has only 256Mb of RAM, and a cheap video card that does TV-out (cost about £15) which looks fine on my non-HD TV. The whole thing was put together for about £150. Although, admittedly that doesn't include the storage -- that went in the server in the attic. But, 6 300Gb drives left me with 1.4Tb of usable RAID5 space and I'd have still had change out of $2200 to buy an upgrade my desktoop PC.

Re:do it yourself...

[Ravatar]

400GB is not that much if you're recording raw HDTV. The X2/2gb ram will make a huge difference when you're recording 2 shows while watching a third (or, perhaps burning a DVD of some video that you recorded earlier).

This system is not for the average homebrewer. This is a pretty high-end project for someone with a nice HT setup.

Re:do it yourself...

[xantho]

Any good tuner is going to have MPEG2 encoding support in hardware, so that's not too big a hit on the processor or memory. If you want to transcode live or something then you might need more horsepower, but MythTV can be configured to wait until there's not that much load on the system to do transcoding jobs or commercial removal jobs.

Re:do it yourself...

[Mr Europe]

Notice that the article serves the purpose of advertising. PCMag ("The Independent Guide to Technology"!) is selling the same hardware they test. Would you trust the results? And the ads are even inside the story:

"The Vbox hardware is pretty darn sensitive--it can pick up weak signals and deal with multipath reflections--but the products are a little hard to track down. Luckily, we did the sleuthing, so all you have to do is go to http://shop.pcmag.com./"

And the results... They didn't close the box and test it running! What's the story worth? Collect good looking and expensive hw, put the in a box but then don't test if they work together...

Re:do it yourself...

[Znork]

"This is a pretty high-end project"

A high end project wouldn't confuse frontend with backend and try to cram storage, encoding and display into a single box.

With a networked setup you could get far more storage and several silent and discrete frontends and still have money left over.

So, nope, not a high-end project. Either it's a salespitch, or it's a project by someone with more money than sense or experience.

Re:do it yourself...

[stalky14]

Yeah. IMO, a project like this has to come in under $500 for it to
be worthwhile. You can lease an HD PVR from your cable company or
satellite company for a long time for $2200. (Typically ~$6 a month).

Also, and I'm speaking from personal experience here, if you build
your own PVR, be prepared to spend a LOT of time finding just the
right software/hardware combination and tweaking it just-so.

And for the love of God, make sure your swap file is on another
drive on another bus. I don't care how fast your machine is if
some menial background task shoots the drive head to the other
end of the platter while you're buffering/playing at the same
time... and turn off indexing too.

Re:do it yourself...

[ErroneousBee]

Its not the bells and whistles that are bad, its the whizzing fans and spinning disks and all manner of other loud stuff.

If its in the lounge, its got to be low power and passive cooled, nothing else will do.

And a hdparm -S1 /dev/hda wouldnt go amiss either. Whats the Windows MCE equivalent?

Re:do it yourself...

[Ravatar]

A true media center IS all-in-one. Most people I know don't want a room full of clunky equipment and a small network just to record TV and listen to CDs.

Hell, yeah...

[__aaclcg7560]

I imagine you guys might have some other opinions on what parts and tools to use for the task...

Where's the Mac Mini?

Re:Hell, yeah...

[vertinox]

Where's the Mac Mini?

No Video out :(

Unless there is some adapter I'm not aware of.

Re:Hell, yeah...

[__aaclcg7560]

Apple DVI to Video Adapter

Re:Hell, yeah...

[Anonymous Coward]

That (sold seperately) DVI to Video Adapter doesn't give you component outputs (only S-video and composite), but that's not a great big deal.

What makes the Mac mini an inadequate "media center" computer to many people is its lack of digital audio outputs, small hard drive (80GB max), no tv tuner, no good "media center" software, and inadequate CPU/GPU for good HD playback.

Sure, you can add digital audio out, hard drive, and tv tuner using the 2 USB ports and FireWire port. That's messier than a bigger all-in-one solution, though. Also, buyers should wait until the mini gets a Yonah-based Intel CPU so that it can play back HD content without dropping frames.

Mac mini specs: http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html

Re:Hell, yeah...

[Anonymous Coward]

Where's the Mac Mini?

When you have added dual digital tuners and dolby digital surround sound (with appropriate choice of connectors for each), at least 200 GB disk, IR for remote, etc. It is not so mini and elegant anymore. And without something approaching this it is not a true mediacenter IMHO. Not to mention that 1.42 GHz G4 (!) is really puny and so is the graphics card an graphics memory (32 MB).

Re:Hell, yeah...

[Golias]

No Video out :(

Unless there is some adapter I'm not aware of.

Why would I want to "adapt" the DVI output of my Mac???

My TV (and any decent modern HDTV system or projector) accepts it with a simple DVI-HDCP cable.

Re:Hell, yeah...

[bogie]

OMG will people stop posting about the Mac Mini whenever HTPCs come up? Its a terrible base for a HTPC as you have to spend a ton and buy half a dozen external devices just to make it useable. Then your stuck with a small base with a bunch big devices hanging outside it. And your still severly limited software-wise. There goes your reason for starting with something small in the first place.

Beyond its form factor it's hasn't got anything going for it. You spend $500 and you still need to spend $500+ minimum on External tuners(really you want 2), external HD, external sound card, etc to make it a real HTPC. You spend $500 on PC parts and you literally have everything you need besides a case. A64 2800, mobo, 512MB, Dual tuner, 250GB HD, Vid all included. Plus you have a half a dozen HTPC software solutions to pick from.

Nobody wants to develop HTPC software for the Mac because its probably only a matter of time before Apple starts including everything you need right up front. Someday Apple will probably make great HTPC hardware but that hasn't happened yet and IMHO the Mac Mini remains a poor choice for diy HTPC builders.

Re:Hell, yeah...

[__aaclcg7560]

Someday Apple will probably make great HTPC hardware but that hasn't happened yet and IMHO the Mac Mini remains a poor choice for diy HTPC builders.

One of the rumors prior to MacWorld was that Apple would introduced a 50-inch plasma TV with a built-in Mac Mini. You can't entirely rule out the Mac Mini as a potential HTPC candidate.

Must be said!

[patrickclay]

I've had a lot of luck running MythTV on inexpensive hardware I had lying around the house. There's no reason to spend buckets of cash like the one mentioned in the article if all you need is a simple PVR.

Re:Must be said!

[PitaBred]

Not to mention that MythTV doesn't deal with all that DRM bull. It just encodes it so you can use it as you like.

Re:Must be said!

[jdunn14]

Agreed. I'm currently playing with a media box I put together for a lot less than 2200. Of course, my demand for bells and whistles is fairly low. I personally prefer a small, quiet, media box, so I use the Antec Aria case. It doesnt have a lot of room, but it can hold a reasonable motherboard (MSI something... cant remember right now), TV card, and a DVD drive. I also have to disagree with the article where it talks about using a keyboard instead of the remote. Personally, when I'm using my media box I really just wish I could not think and use 1 button, not a keyboard worth. Oh well, someday I'll have the voice controlled media box done =). For now, with MythTV and Lirc it does pretty much anything I need.

<shameless type="shill">
And if you want to buy a premade Lirc (or WinLirc) homebrew transceiver, or assemble it yourself, I might have what you need.
</shameless>

Re:Must be said!

[Bourbonium]

Absolutely. I did the same thing with less than $300 worth of hardware, a Knoppmyth CD and a little bit of time. I did a practice install first with a standard IDE disk to make all my mistakes on a scratch system, then built the final box with a 200Gb SATA drive. All I wanted was a DIY PVR, and this worked great.

Re:Must be said!

[lauterm]

agreed...$140 for a Hauppauge PVR500 sure beats $2200. My secondary computer's Athlon XP 1800+ (1.6 GHz) is way more processor than I need to run MythTV, because the Hauppauge has hardware MPEG2 encoding. I've tried SageTV under Win XP with this card too. While MythTV may be a little harder to set up, it is definitely a better product. It is more customizable, uses less CPU, and costs $80 less. I see that SageTV now offers a Gentoo-based Linux option. Too late, it's back to MythTV for me.

error

[Nosklo]

5th page of the article is messed up: Active Server Pages error 'ASP 0126' Include file not found /article2/0,1895,1925427,00.asp, line 521 The include file '/component/util_generate_article_discussion_info/ 0,1460,a=171326,00.asp' was not found.

Re:error

[EXMSFT]

Yes. It's a shame that they haven't mastered self-debugging scripting.

$2,246 Is Too Much!

[gasmonso]

Depending on your needs, you can spend alot less than $2246. I have my pvr running on a Shuttle SS40g with a 1GHz Athlon/512MB RAM/200GB drive. Its been running for 3 years now without problems (knock on wood). If people need a pvr on the cheap, I would recommend buying a used lowend Shuttle PC or similar and save yourself the cash. You could probably get one on eBay for half the cost than this one.

http://religiousfreaks.com/

Re:$2,246 Is Too Much!

[gm0e]

Are the newer shuttles very noisy at all? I have an SB61G going on three years old and the fan is pretty darn loud. I assume there aren't many aftermarket cpu fans for shuttles since the fan/radiator/heatsink/heatpipe contraption is one big piece.

Re:$2,246 Is Too Much!

[scm]

I have an IIRC SK83G and it sounds like a hairdryer (not quite, but it's loud). Too loud for a HT/MC PC. Though just after I got mine, they started using larger fans, which should be quieter... but I'm not sure how quiet.

Of course, how loud is too loud is a matter of opinion...

Re:$2,246 Is Too Much!

[eonlabs]

You could get an awesome media center for 2246. As a laptop.

You even get enough left over for extra laptop batteries and one of those hats that holds beer or soda cans.

On the other hand...

[RyoShin]

I note the article talks about Windows XP Media Center.

My question to Slashdot is: How good is MythPC? Since I don't have the ability right now to build a media box, I haven't really looked into it. I've heard some people say it's good, some say it's bad. Which is it?

What alternatives are there to MythPC (free or not)? Are they any good?

Re:On the other hand...

[PitaBred]

You're talking about MythTV, and it's quite good. It's difficult to get working in many cases, but most people who like it put up with that because of the flexibility it allows. One backend, multiple frontends, so your TV upstairs can watch shows recorded on the main machine in the living room, for example. It also has great IMDB lookups for existing video files, no DRM (media center edition definitely doesn't have either of those). Best thing I can recommend is to try it. You can always install Media Center edition too, if you think it's bad. Not like it'll take anything but a bit of time, and it's free, so the price is much better than Media Center.

Re:On the other hand...

[QuantumRiff]

My question to Slashdot is: How good is MythPC?

Your asking this to Slashdot? We can't decide if Apple, MS, and Google are good or bad.. We flip flop on this daily!

Re:On the other hand...

[vertinox]

You're talking about MythTV, and it's quite good. It's difficult to get working in many cases, but most people who like it put up with that because of the flexibility it allows.

Pardon my ignorance, but does MythTV support DivX and any other codecs other than MPeg2? I've been thinking about building a MediaPC and was interested in using MythTV.

Re:On the other hand...

[grungebox]

I can help with alternatives in the Windows world. I've never used MythTV. In Windows there is:

GB-PVR - FREE, easy to install, includes media functions like photos/music/other vides/etc.., works well with current tuners, easy to install plug-ings but not open-source, not very pretty (if the wife-acceptance factor matters), the PVR software I currently use
SageTV - kind of expensive, the included media functions kind of suck, can easily install plugins (but I totally fucked up my trial install while installing one plugin), was unstable when I tried it, slows down sometimes due to resource usage, I guess
MeedioTV - haven't tried this since last August but at the time it was borderline terrible, resource-hog, crashed a lot, wouldn't stop recording when I exited live TV (causing my hard drive to quickly fill up)...these problems may not exist anymore; it does look nice, though
BeyondTV - expensive if you want media functions, works great with plug-ins, a little slow sometimes, intelligently selects recordings, high WAF
MediaPortal - I've never tried it, but it's also free and I think open-source, from what I hear it's somewhat of a resource hog, I can't say much more
Windows MCE - never tried it, never will.

Re:On the other hand...

[Requiel]

Go grab KnoppMyth (http://www.mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html) and burn it to a CD. Try it out yourself and see!

Re:On the other hand...

[MR.Mic]

As a MythTV user, I can say that it is definately supported.
Divx falls under Mpeg-4 compression, which is fully supported by the MythTV suite.

Re:On the other hand...

[corychristison]

To my understanding, MythTV uses xine for the video stuff. So just install the codecs you expect yourself to be using, and you're good to go. :-)

Re:On the other hand...

[automatix]

MythTV can be installed and setup very easily using the KnoppMyth distribution, and then customised after that (all I've done is install libdvdcss). Otherwise there is Jarod's detailed setup guide, and the mythtv-users mailing list is very busy, and people on there are very helpful.

If you're in New Zealand, we have a localt mythtvnz list.

Rob :)

Re:On the other hand...

[nvrrobx]

Okay, your info on MCE's use of DRM is a bit incorrect. As an MCE user, I know this to be true..

MCE puts mpeg2 content in a container format called dvr-ms. This container does allow for DRM, but MCE 2005 does not actually encrypt or restrict the content. I use my laptop (XP SP2) to play back content all the time.

MPlayer-OSX doesn't (quite) understand the format, but it does try to play it. I'm sure MPlayer/Linux would do fine, but I don't have a way to test it.

I am looking into switching to Myth, but it is proving to be quite difficult with my FusionHDTV 5 Lite card. It doesn't seem to like scanning for QAM256 channels on TimeWarner Cable...

Re:On the other hand...

[paeanblack]

MCE puts mpeg2 content in a container format called dvr-ms. This container does allow for DRM, but MCE 2005 does not actually encrypt or restrict the content. I use my laptop (XP SP2) to play back content all the time.

Have you played that "unrestricted" content in the dvr-ms format on anything but a Windows box?

While .dvr-ms may, in theory, not be restricted, the lack of portability sure is a restriction in practice. Beyond being the default storage format for MCE, does .dvr-ms have any benefits over mpeg2?

I've used MCE, and it has a stellar front-end. However, letting your front-end dictate your back-end is a good way to end up in an embarassingly awkward position.

Re:On the other hand...

[Anonymous Coward]

I just (literally, last night) finished setting up my MythTV box. I don't recommend it if you just want to record a few shows and timeshift tv -- get a TIVO -- but if you want a fun project with almost infinite flexibility, go for it! I'm using Ubuntu, and my major difficulties were:

1) Getting the right size PCI cards (I'm using a half-size case)
2) Getting the sound working (Ubuntu rocks, but it needs a bit of work here).
3) Figuring out the proper order to configure things after all the software was installed.

I HIGHLY recommend this guide to get started, and for more extensive details, try this one.

Alternatively, try KnoppMyth...supposedly it works out of the box, but I can't vouch for that.

Re:Where do you get Windows Media Center Edition?

[everphilski]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82 E16832102311

Sure they do, if you are an OEM

[dsginter]

MCE $130 OEM.

Note that you "must purchase with a piece of hardware" to get around Microsoft's "must be sold with hardware" legalese.

Re:Sure they do, if you are an OEM

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that must just be a NewEgg thing. I purchased XP MCE today from a different vendor (Computer3G.com) and was not required to buy any hardware with it. And for less than $125, too.

Re:Sure they do, if you are an OEM

[PFI_Optix]

Then the resaler violated their terms as a MS reseller.

Or they're gray market, which could mean your copy of Windows isn't legit. I've seen that plenty of times.

Re:Sure they do, if you are an OEM

[jdhutchins]

The reseller is Newegg, and I highly doubt they are classified as "gray area" and selling non-legit copies of Windows. I'm not familiar with MS OEM contracts, but they probably are and make sure to stay in the legal clear.

Re:Sure they do, if you are an OEM

[MojoStan]

I purchased XP MCE today from a different vendor (Computer3G.com) and was not required to buy any hardware with it.

When the box arrives, check for very cheap hardware (like an audio cable). Seriously. Last time I checked, Newegg will bundle a $3 audio cable if you order WinXP MCE by itself, then give you an instant $3 rebate on that audio cable.

For OEM operating systems, MS is very lax on the "must be purchased with hardware" requirement. They are more strict with OEM versions of Office, which usually requires enough hardware to be a "complete system."

Re:Sure they do, if you are an OEM

[TenLow]

Googlegear.. er, umm, zipzoomfly.com has a specific audio cable in their inventory that is just for "OEM" stuff, it has a price of $0.00 and can only be purchased with OEM software.

Re:Sure they do, if you are an OEM

[nvrrobx]

Which is dead simple. Buy the MCE remote.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82 E16880100851

I'm using MCE 2005 with a PVR500MCE card right now. Works great.

Re:Sure they do, if you are an OEM

[TenLow]

And I just looked at Newegg.com, and in the description for Windows MCE, it says at the bottom "Must be purchased with hardware"

Re:Sure they do, if you are an OEM

[Anonymous Coward]

If you buy from Fry's (outpost.com) this could be pretty much any PC hardware they sell. So buy your video card or tuner from them and you're set! Or if you have an MSDN subscription you can shave a quick $125 off the project and get it free.

Seems the specs on this DIY are overboard. You don't need a freaking 3800 model cpu or 2gigs ram. There's a very large difference between what you need for media center vs. what you need for kickass gaming. If you want to build a media center for cheap, start with the supported hardware list on micro$oft's website. I can guarentee if you buy something not on this list, it is most likely not going to work with media center.

If you use this for 24/7 recording, I recommend using a quiet case. I'm loving my Antec case. If you want to use this in your living room, keep in mind that the small-factor cases add to your overall cost quite a bit. Unless your wife is also a geek and you only have over geek friends, keep the CPU out of the living room. It probably costs just as much to get a media extender (hint: buy an xbox from a pawnshop for cheap) as it does to go with a small form-factor case anyway, and you will look a lot cooler not having a "PC" in the living room.

When not to use media center:
If you're still unsure about cost, etc, then get a cheap computer with a tuner and myth tv. Media center doesn't compress videos down very much and they hog a crapload of space. There's utilities out there to convert the MS-DVR files to regular mpegs (and then you can use virtual dub or whatever you want to make xvid/divx files) but just keep in mind that the extenders (xbox/360/linksys) ONLY SUPPORT MPEG FILES.

The equivilant of media center extenders in the myth tv world is to get a cheap cpu with tv output and a network adapter. Or mod an x-box. Either way, it takes a lot more effort and frustration to setup and maintain. It took me 2 days to set up my whole media center including extenders -- and that was 80% building the CPU from parts.

Re:Sure they do, if you are an OEM

[charlesnw]

What is this wife/friends thing you speak of? :) And your right about the small form factor adding a lot to the cost of the case.

You can buy it...

[rwven]

From the MS site:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/mediacenter/how tobuy/default.mspx

Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 is only available pre-installed on computers sold by PC manufacturers. You can purchase a PC with Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 pre-installed at retail consumer electronic stores, direct from PC manufacturers, or through online consumer electronics Web sites.

Re:You can buy it...

[xantho]

A lot of sires will sell you an OEM copy if you buy something like a motherboard and cpu in the same purchase, just because they assume that you are building a new computer with them.

Re:You can buy it...

[madnuke]

I have a MSDN copy which suddenly appeared, I think it was delivered to the wrong adress and I have action pack copies, if your an OEM just borrow a disk or 'aquire' one. The remote control is very nice as well only £18 I'm planning to put it on my laptop and hook it up to a USB tv card.

Re:You can buy it...

[Anonymous Coward]

It is perfectly legit and within Microsofts Licence terms to buy OEM Operating Systems provided it is supplied with a non-peripheral component - which can include a mouse.

You cannot purchase OEM Office or Server products ecept with a complete machine,

Re:You can buy it...

[Anonymous Coward]

A mouse isn't a peripheral?

Re:You can buy it...

[RenatoRam]

A lot of shops here in italy will happily sell you OEM windows cds without any hardware parts. Just like stores sell the educational version without really checking if you or one of your relatives is a student or teacher.

Are the shops in the USA really so strict?

Re:You can buy it...

[kent_eh]

... but buying things pre-assembled is a lot less geeky than building it.

And a lot less fun.

Re:You can buy it...

[rwven]

LOL, i don't know how it works over there, but over here if you open a piece of mail that wasn't meant for you, it's a felony and will land you in jail... :-P

maybe I'm just cheap....

[ChrisGilliard]

but $2,276 seems like a lot for a computer these days. If money is not an issue, sure go for it and get this system, but you can save on a lot of these areas. Like case for $120. That's a lot. $300+ for the cpu also seems too much. You can get a very nice CPU for $150 and under. I think you can even get a lowend dual core for that price if that's your thing. I'd stick with the 2 gB of RAM, because RAM is the most useful thing these days in my opinion. You don't need that hardrive though. You can get one for about $150 that has a similar capacity that you will probably NEVER fill. The sound card for over $100 is outragous. I use the one that came with my mother board and it sounds great. A $75 microsoft keyboard is redicoulas. You can get a wireless mouse/keyboard combo for less than that price. I want even get into the $125 for the OS. Just my $0.02.

Re:maybe I'm just cheap....

[WillAffleckUW]

but $2,276 seems like a lot for a computer these days.

Yes, it is. My current laptop cost me $500, for a much more powerful CPU (also an AMD), with more RAM, and better wireless.

Re:maybe I'm just cheap....

[The Mayor]

$2276 is for a dual HDTV tuner setup. The case is so that it looks pretty and doesn't sound like a jet engine. The $300+ cpu gets them a dual core cpu (see below).

I'll agree on the RAM, although if the computer is used solely for a media center PC, 2GB of memory isn't that helpful. And I'll also agree on the hard drive, having just purchased a $200 400GB hard drive myself for my media box.

Honestly, given the proper motherboard, onboard sound with digital outputs going to the DAC in my stereo, and I see no need for a $100 sound card.

Just try to decode an HDTV signal on a $150 CPU. It can be done, but not if the PC is doing anything else. They went dual core, I would bet, so that they can decode an HDTV signal while simultaneously recording 2 HDTV signals and a regular signal, all while doing pretty much anything else without skipping a beat.

It's not perfect, but it is fairly reasonable. It does feel like they picked the components of their advertisers, though.

Re:maybe I'm just cheap....

[ChrisGilliard]

The case is so that it looks pretty and doesn't sound like a jet engine.

I thought I was splurging at $75 for my case, but $120 must be really cool I guess.

The $300+ cpu gets them a dual core cpu (see below).

I think the dual core 2.66 gHz chip is coming out in March for around $200 - $250 range.

Re:maybe I'm just cheap....

[KeithIrwin]

As someone who actually runs an HTPC running MythTV which records and plays back HDTV, I have to say that RAM is actually less important than I would have thought. I got 1 Gig initially, leaving a couple of slots free so that I could got to 2 Gig if needed. Well, it hasn't been. When I run top, I rarely see a significant amount of total memory utilization. Maybe 20% of my RAM is being used on average. Anything based off of MPEG is limited to dealing with two frames on either side, whether you're playing back or encoding. So what we're talking about if you want to play back one HD signal, record two at the same time, reencode another, and record two SD signals isn't that much. Essentially the one completely decompressed HD frame is 6 Meg. An SD one is 1 Meg. Add two frames on either side and we're talking about 30 Meg and 5 Meg. And since it comes already compressed, if you're recording it, you don't need to encode it. So recording it just requires a small buffer. Say 10M to be -really- generous. So the scenario I outlined above is about the maximum you'll ever need and it's only 30+20+30+10 = 90 Meg.

Now there are undoubtedly things that I have no taken into account like extra buffering, so maybe you should double that to 180 or even double it again to 360, but really, memory isn't a big issue. If it were, the set top boxes would cost a lot more. Many of the HD satellite boxes don't have but somewhere in the 8-32 Meg range for total memory.

Really if you want to worry about one thing my advice would be this: get the largest on-chip cache you can. Decoding SD in software takes my processor to about 5%. Decoding HD in software takes it to 75%. It's only 6 times as many pixels, why does it take 15 times a much processor? Simple: it overflows the cache. I don't know of any chip with the 6 Meg on-chip cache which would be needed to hold everything, but still, a large cache will likely do more to help than most anything else.

Keith

Re:maybe I'm just cheap....

[sjwaste]

It's overkill, definitely, but I think their goal was to go top of the line on everything.

I have HDTV with buggy drivers and all coming into my machine, an Athlon XP 1800+. For dual HD streams, you can still get away with a sub-$200 CPU (Opteron 146?). But even then, lets say a $300 Opteron 165, 1 GB of RAM (I have no problem with dual tuners and that much memory), and dual HD tuners. Considering a 300 GB drive routinely goes for under $100 after rebates (check fatwallet.com), the whole thing can be done for under $1000 and be top notch:

Opteron 165 - $300
1GB Value RAM - $100
Mobo - $65 (ASRock 939Dual has been great to me)
Vidcard - $40 (Geforce 5200 w/ DVI is popular under Linux) Desktop case - $30 shipped (isellsurplus.com has a very sturdy and inexpensive black desktop case) Two HD tuners - $200 300 GB HD - $100 Total: $800 with room to spare for a case upgrade, more ram, or another HD. Maybe put in wifi if you dont want to use the wired LAN integrated on the mobo. Integrated sound has been good for me, but if not, I've seen $15 chaintech cards based on the Envy24 w/ Wolfson DAC for analog and optical out. I use it in my machine.

Re:maybe I'm just cheap....

[cloudmaster]

And you can't get a regular ol' SMP system with processors that cost under $100 each?

Re:maybe I'm just cheap....

[The Mayor]

Try cooling a dual proc computer without the case sounding like a jet engine...better to go with dual core. At least for the type of procs that can decode HDTV

Re:maybe I'm just cheap....

[cloudmaster]

Funny, the dual Athlon MP 2400s I'm typing this on don't sound like a jet engine. In fact, they're nearly silent. The Enermax case I'm using has a pair of 120mm vantec stelath fans on either end of a wind tunnel, and an 80mm Vantec stealth in the PSU ventilating the remainder of the case. It's 97.5F (36.4C) at the processor heatsinks, and there's more noise from the hard drive than the fans.

It's not like one can passively cool a high-end dual core CPU - which runs hotter than a single processor. So fans are needed either way for this sitution.

I'd use Linux!

[Nahooda]

If I was building a HTPC, I'd use Linux, 'cause it's highly customizable since you can strip it down the way you need it. I think Windows is totally inappropriate for HTPCs especially 'cause of all that DRM shit.

-DBS

Re:I'd use Linux!

[Scorpion265]

My problem with using a linux box for a PVR is that it's VERY hard to get working with an HDTV. I still can't get it working at 720p or 1080i. Where as the MCE with the nvidia based drivers makes it easy to setup for a high def tv.

Re:I'd use Linux!

[grungebox]

If I was building a HTPC, I'd use Linux, 'cause it's highly customizable since you can strip it down the way you need it. I think Windows is totally inappropriate for HTPCs especially 'cause of all that DRM shit.

From the last point in your post it seems you have little to no experience in Windows-based HTPCs, given that your statement is based on exactly one piece of software: MCE. I can't think of one non-MCE piece of Windows PVR software that uses "all that DRM shit" on their files. Not one, and I've used most everything for Windows at one point or another except MCE. MediaPortal, GB-PVR, MeedioTV, BeyondTV, SageTV...none have DRM on their files. None. And they're all Windows-based.

Pricey

[Mijion]

This setup is very over priced, personally I would of not done the 400gb drive, and just raid like 2 250gbs together would be cheaper, also sounds like they just went to a random site and picked out stuff not on sale, if you go to www.slickdeals.net you can find alot of cheap stuff.

Re:Pricey

[Anonymous Coward]

"like 2 250G drives"....

What, so you could have 1 or 3 drives? They're both "like 2"

Re:Where do you get Windows Media Center Edition?

[mmell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah - but the rest of the post (kinda) stands.

Interesting - NewEgg can get me Windows MCE, but Microsoft still insists that the only way to get MCE is to have it preinstalled by an OEM.

I'll let my wife keep using her current Linux-based solution (TiVO, now the wholly-owned property of Microsoft IIRC).

Build a Homemade Media Center PC

[rcha101]

Or if your Sydney (Australia) just buy mine! See here: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=47 953218

Re:Build a Homemade Media Center PC

[Nosklo]

Buy what? Your error? Your URL can't be found.

Re:Build a Homemade Media Center PC

[corychristison]

Works fine for me. :-)

MythTV

[drewzhrodague]

You must mean MythTV.

Re:On the other hand... MythTV

[poopie]

How good is MythPC?

You mean MythTV. It's very good, and it keeps getting better.

The people who complain either expect commercial-like support for a turnkey product, try to use poorly supported hardware without the technical ability to make it work, or they are not comfortable with Linux or debugging their own install and setup.

Gawd, beat this to death...

[Anonymous Coward]

This is about the zillionth time this has been hashed out on Slashdot. How 'bout walking away from this dead horse?

Re:Gawd, beat this to death...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet another tutorial on how to do something that's not that complicated. How did this make the main page? It's getting almost as bad as Digg.

Two hundred bucks?

[Rob_Ogilvie]

Dude, I bet you can't find an "old" laptop with "a few ghz" worth of CPU power, a gig of RAM, and a 128MB worth of video RAM for less than $200. Tack on a $150 (!!) tuner card (that is PCMCIA or USB 2.0, not PCI) and at least $50 worth of wireless accessories and you're definitely over your two-hundred-dollar mark.

Sorry.

Go buy a TiVo.

Re:Two hundred bucks?

[coaxeus]

Sorry, I meant I already had the laptop. It's an inspiron 8200 which runs about $500 today (I payed about $3000, luckily they gave me an insp. 9300 for free this year when I wrote them a nasty email). Card is USB2 I've never had the joy of trying tivo, but that's likely the best route for the average consumer.

Re:Two hundred bucks?

[DilbertLand]

Well, the better way to do this is to use turner cards that do onboard video compression instead of using the CPU. That way you can make almost any computer work. http://www.snapstream.com/Community/articles/pvs_s ervice/ ...and you can then add tons of tuners that will record all at once without really taxing a modest system... http://www.snapstream.com/Community/Articles/medus a/default.asp

Re:Two hundred bucks?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not meaning to belittle your laptop setup, and if it works for you good for you. But my mediacenter just yesterday recorded two separate digital tv shows simultainously as I was wathing hidef video on it. That takes some horsepower.

I didn't even know it was doing it, had set it to record all instances the two shows through the EPG, which yesterday happened to be aired at overlapping times.

And having it as both my stereo, video and photo album, I find 200 GB disk a minimum (I wish I went with 300), which would be a problem with laptop, but I guess you could go with external disk.

Re:Two hundred bucks?

[coaxeus]

I'm pretty sure I don't care or know if it does onboard video compression, but I'm using a hauppauge card which I think is about as good as it gets in the USB world. http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/products/data_pvrus b2.html

Re:Two hundred bucks?

[Khyber]

Who needs a laptop with a few GHz? high-res (let's just say 1024x768, since that would be right around the midrange of High Def) movies play just fine on a 800 MHz Laptop with decent video capabilities. All you need is built-in TV output, and if you don't have that, you can get a converter box from Radio Shack for 99 bucks to send the signal to your television, to go from VGA to Component, Composite, or S-Video, no software needed to be installed. Average cost? maybe a 250 buck laptop from Ebay, and a 99 buck convertor. Add in a 1/8" stereo to RCA adapter for output to a good sound system, and you're set. Far better than that 2K dollar project.

Re:Two hundred bucks?

[Masami Eiri]

You're forgetting PVR fuctionality.

Re:Two hundred bucks?

[AeroIllini]

Go buy a TiVo.

Ok, and then I will happily put up with TiVo deciding for me how long I'm allowed to keep my shows, and showing me those lovely advertisements while I'm browsing the channel lineup, and not allowing me to record more than one show at a time, and suddenly forcing me to not skip commercials, and tying me down to a proprietary channel data service which could stop working the moment TiVo folds, and forcing me to comply with every whim and wish of the all-powerful entertainment industry regardless of legality or sanity.

Oh, and by the way, it also does not support playing my music collection in flac/ogg/mp3/aac/itunes/wav format, or playing DVDs on the same box, or playing MPEG-4 encoded videos, or emulating old games, or checking the weather in a built-in module, or allowing me to upload other videos to it, or allowing me to rip my DVDs for easy access, or playing recorded shows on multiple frontends, or storing the data on a dedicated machine instead of the built-in hard drive, or...

Seriously, if all you want is the Fisher-Price(tm) version of a PVR, by all means get a TiVo. The rest of us want functionality.

Re:Two hundred bucks?

[Loconut1389]

With TiVo Desktop, you can upload correctly encoded files back on to the tivo, as well as tell it not to delete shows. It only deletes shows not marked as keep until i delete when there isn't enough space left. DirecTiVo allows multiple shows at once, and TiVo Generation 3 boxes will do this as well.

It would also take something very out of the ordinary to knock tivo into oblivion overnight. TiVo is a friendly and conveniant tv recording mechanism. All my DVDs are on DVD and I dont mind sticking in a disk and pushing the button on my receiver remote to change inputs.

Also TiVo -CAN- play mp3 format. I have my entire collection in apple lossless, and until TiVO & Apple make a deal, I have another copy in mp3, which is a small price to pay (well, 100gb at 128kbit which is good enough for me and if I really want something in high quality I listen to the original CD or fire up iTunes and play the apple lossless version).

TiVo's not all bad and definately has its place in my home. My wife's not a computer geek and doesn't want to mess with the rest of the problems that come from having a windows based machine that needs you to accept updates, run virus scans and spyware scans, etc. TiVo changed our life for the better (we always missed our shows due to our 16 month old son getting crabby or wanting to play or something). We live on our own schedule thanks to TiVo. Granted, it could be done with a PC based solution, but TiVo really is simple.

You also -can- check the weather with galleon installed on a home PC that sends the java programs to the TiVo for use.

Not everybody needs to emulate old games (though I have a dreamcast and xbox for that occasional use). I can also play some fun games on the TiVo. I don't see why someone couldnt make a java NES emulator either, though playing with the remote might be strange, granted.

Anyway, the TiVo isn't a swiss army knife, but it's definately more than you think.

Re:Two hundred bucks?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just make sure when you take into account for the cost of your tivo the service charge. Its $300 for lifetime or something for each month.

If you want to get a cheap pvr, that has much more funcionality than a tivo, get a hauppauge capture card. Get a mpeg decoder video card, some cheap slow cpu/motherboard, and a big hd...
total cost for my system was $433... And it can play snes games!

Re:Two hundred bucks?

[Damvan]

"with TiVo deciding for me how long I'm allowed to keep my shows, and showing me those lovely advertisements while I'm browsing the channel lineup, and not allowing me to record more than one show at a time, and suddenly forcing me to not skip commercials"

I have a Tivo and none of the above apply. I can record two shows at once, keep recordings as long as I want (I have many that are over 2 years old), no advertisements in guide, and can skip all the commercials I want.

Which Tivo are you talking about? Not one I have ever seen.

Re:Two hundred bucks?

[WgT2]

What are the specs on that bad boy?

Re:Two hundred bucks?

[AeroIllini]

Anyway, the TiVo isn't a swiss army knife, but it's definately more than you think.

Point taken. I was not aware of all those other services/products TiVo offered.

But my point was that the TiVo service, no matter how flexible it might be now, is still a proprietary solution that has altered how the system works in response to pressures from entertainment groups (the recent argument between TiVo and the NFL over blacked out games comes to mind). If TiVo wanted to have you watch commercials during lineup browsing, there would be nothing you could do about it. You are only as in-control of your tv as TiVo lets you be. A homebrew system, once set up and running properly (and properly secured... I wouldn't build one on Windows or not put it behind a hardware firewall), is not harder to use than a TiVo, especially with automatic updates enabled. And it ultimately DOES put you in control of your television. If the networks decide somewhere down the road that it is only legal to keep their shows for 14 days, and TiVo upholds their decision--which is not an unreasonable prediction, given some of the things these media companies are pushing for, and the tactics they use to get their way--you have the power to give them a giant, collective "screw you."

TiVo gives you some control back, yes. A homebrew solution gives you *complete* control.

Re:Two hundred bucks?

[Loconut1389]

Completely true. Until TiVo rubs me the wrong way, I don't think I have the money or the time to get a system like that up and running. I bought a TiVo with a 'lifetime' subscription (thanks to the big $150 rebate) for my wife as a gift and the price was right.

The Galleon+TiVo Desktop combo works quite well and adds some nice features that were otherwise lacking.

I do look forward to Gen 3 TiVo's but perhaps by then I'll be ready to build a system like you're speaking of. Unfortunately, I didn't organize my other post very well and it was disjointed and grouped things together that shouldn't have been. Basically, with my TiVo, I can transfer files off to my pc when my 140 hour gets too full, burn em to DVD, check the weather, play mp3s from my desktop, show pictures from my desktop, transfer correctly encoded (there's a page on tivo's site somewhere that says how) files back on to the tivo to play, and with my other TiVo that we keep in the bedroom (got it for $11 thanks to the same rebate) I can record two shows at once or play shows from the main tivo (and vice versa), among other things. All in all, TiVo works quite well for us and the extras that a custom system would provide just aren't worth the cost or time at the moment.

Btw, we are behind a hardware firewall, and I suppose a linux box would be less likely to need updates once you got it working happily (as long as you didnt need/want a new feature). I'm sort of leery of doing auto-updates at least with fedora core since the kernel changes every time the wind blows and theres often something that breaks something else or gcc changes and the rpms for various packages dont have the libs or don't rebuild correctly.. etc etc..

Anyway, thanks for your response.

Re:Two hundred bucks?

[kent_eh]

Go buy a TiVo
From TIVO.COM:

TiVo does not sell DVR boxes in Puerto Rico or Canada

So, I guess I won't.

Re:Two hundred bucks?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi, if you are still there, it's this one:

Evesham eBox2. Together with a 37" hd LCD (with DVI of course). Very happy with it. Just works beautifully out of the box.

Re:Two hundred bucks?

[Anonymous Coward]

Boy, all your medical problems sure haven't made you any less of a raging asshole over the past year or so.

mini-itx

[martok]

I was looking at doing this recently and a good
option seems to be the Epia systems from Via.
You can run a silent fanless system up to around
1.3ghz provided you are willing to go diskless.

Re:mini-itx

[LordSnooty]

I'll back that up, even the fanned 1GHz EPIA M10000 edition is virtually silent, not loud enough to be noticeable anyway. Throw in a Maxtor slim HDD and it'll still be quiet. Ditch the optical drive for a good noise saving. You already have a DVD - no need to plug one into your media PC.

HP Z558 would be a much better bargain!!

[bommai]

HP Z556 ($1500) or HP Z558 ($2200) are a much better bargain than this trouble. Here are the features in the HP that is not in the home built one. 1) Component video output ports that handle 720p/1080i in addition to DVI 2) 2 NTSC tuners and one ATSC tuner. 3) Gigabit ethernet and 802.11g 4) media bay storage (300 GB included) in addition to 300 GB HD. 5) Front LCD panel context sensitive. 6) Wireless Keyboard with built-in trackball 7) Dolby digital/DTS capable optical and coax digital audio output 8) Pre-outs for 7.1 channel sound 9) Firewire/USB ports in back and front 10) Media card reader in front 11) Built-like a home theater component Even though this looks inviting especially since my HDTV only has component video inputs and no DVI, I am still not getting this because it runs Windows! I am still waiting for an elegant solution from Apple!

Re:HP Z558 would be a much better bargain!!

[Gumber]

As I've just learned today, component video out isn't always a great thing on a MCE box. I've discovered that DVDs with Macrovision won't play back through component video at 720p or above for some f'ed up reason. On the other hand, it will work with DVI, which is higher quality. Don't you just love the hideous offspring that dumps out when the entertainment industry and the PC industry get it on?

Re:HP Z558 would be a much better bargain!!

[bommai]

Well, since DVDs are 480p native, I don't care if the MCE box does not upconvert it. My TV has upconversion built-in if I want it. Also, I would like to use component video for pictures, H.264 movie trailers, etc. Also, once you rip the DVDs and remove macrovision, those VIDEO_TS files will play fine.

MythTV is GREAT!

[drewzhrodague]

Hell, I love it. It downloads the showtimes and listings, records your shows, has priority and quality settings, lets you play MAME ROMs, lets you play other video files you have, will play DVDs, MP3s, has an image browser -- it is rediculously full-featured. There's a VOIP module, DVD-burning support, and much much more. I'm using the KnoppMyth version, which only needed me to tell it about my remote control, and setup the buttons.

Saw That Coming

[Anonymous Coward]

The original post says that the question is offtopic (but really its not too far offtopic and I'd like to know the answer as well) and it gets moderated offtopic. Guess the original AC should have saw that coming. Of course, this will probably be marked as offtopic as well.

lol

[dargon]

extreme overkill, my own uses the following.

MB: microstar k7n2g-l
Ram: 1gb
video: onboard gf4mx
sound: onboard 5.1
hdd: 80gb
tuner: 2x hauppague pvr150
os: win2k
pvr software: beyond media 3, beyond tv 4
pvr remote: snapstream firefly

Re:lol

[nightsweat]

Do you have digital cable? How do you handle changing channels automagically to record with one of those boxes?

Re:lol

[nmos]

Do you have digital cable? How do you handle changing channels automagically to record with one of those boxes?

If you're lucky you can run a serial cable from the computer to the cable box and use that to change channels (that's what I do with my MythTV + DirecTV setup). Otherwise you get an IR transmitter and plug that into a serial or usb port and train lirc to act like your cable box remote.

Re:lol

[Anonymous Coward]

Most "Media Center" devices (such as remotes) come with IR-Blasters, XP MCE is supposed to be smart enough to use this little device you put in front of your digital cable box to send the change channel signals and such for you.

I've never used it but it does seem like a lame/simple solution for an annoying problem.

I also heard somewhere that the FCC requires that your digital cable provider offer you a PCI-Digital Cable Decoder. I could be totally off-base, and I can't quote my source (because I don't remember :( ...), but its something to look into, if you can do the Digital Cable decoding on board your PVR you don't have to deal with the digital cable box that would make life a lot easier.

If I had digital cable thats the way I'd wanna go.

Re:Where do you get Windows Media Center Edition?

[fixitben]

if you wouldn't have writen "Oh, BTW - FIRST POST!" You would have been. LOL!!!1

Have build several...

[mythosaz]

Ok, you'll all turn this into a "Install MythTV" thread, but...

I've built several MCE machines. Here's what you need to know.

An Athlon 1700+ is overkill for a three-tuner (dual analog + OTA HD) setup. Encoding is done on the card. They suggest a $500 CPU/motherboard combination. A Sempron 2600+ on a motherboard is at Fry's for $69, and is boxed with a fairly quiet fan on a cool-and-quiet supported motherboard.

1g of memory is overkill. 512M of Corsair Value RAM costs $38 at NewEgg. That's about $150 cheaper than their suggestion of 2G of CVR.

A "fancy" sound card is useless if you simply intend to go out to your stereo. Optical out is available for a couple of bucks, and the stereo out on any newer piece-of-junk AC97 audio sounds just fine through my stereo.

Their tuners are "fine", but the standard configuration for MCE is almost always a single MCE500 from Hauppauge and a combo of an ATI HD Wonder (no broadcast flag support) and an AverMedia A180. About $400 for this - and it'll be your biggest purchase.

You do not need a keyboard except in the closet; and yes the remote is $35 from NewEgg.

250gig drives run $75 or cheaper after rebates and other "scams." I bought a pair of Hitachi "Deathstar" 250's at $49 each at Fry's. We'll pretend though that you'll have to spend $100 for a solid 300 gigger.

Cost for a four-tuner setup including dual-HTDV dual-analog tuners and plenty of storage? http://www.powercompress.com/product.htm

It's also available by Graphedit add-ons and an AT job if you can live without a fancy front-end.

Re:Have build several...

[mythosaz]

Odd, part of my reply was eaten by a couple of stray greater-than's that got assumed to be tags.

Less than $800 for a four-tuner machine, and you can start with $500 and one tuner and work your way up.

Add the case of your choice for under $150. Several nMedia cases at NewEgg (and elsewhere) that work for you. Make that case be $0 if you're hacking it together and it's NOT going to need to be a centerpiece in the room. Mine is, and it cost me $114 more to look GREAT.

--

The power compress link is the only thing MCE is truly missing. Auto re-encode at night to useful formats.

Damned failure to preview.

Re:Have build several...

[xantho]

The damn Asus motherboard has 7.1 output on the board itself. It's honestly not something that needs to get upgraded.

Re:Have build several...

[spoop]

With those cheap hardrives from retails stores, you get what you pay for. They come with tiny 1-year warrantys, compared to 3-5 years for an oem drive.

Re:Have build several...

[BloodAngel_Au]

After much thought, investigation and frustration with Snapstream, I'm building a fairly similar setup with MCE as you have listed (but less HDD space & one tuner for now), but after checking out things here http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/ , I discovered you can indeed recompress the video files overnight, get a working EPG for Australia (something that the tv stations don't like) and various other things (the best was a dual login setup from http://www.thegreenbutton.com/community/shwmessage .aspx?ForumID=42&MessageID=89492&TopicPage=1 for having the MCE interface working on the console (machine) and a teminal (remote) interface active from the same machine)

But have a check around and see if you can overcome your little quirks, every media-pc setup has some.

Personally, my MCE is for record/recompress/torrent/dvd-burning only, mostly from a remote computer, all the output will be played via XBMC from a softmodded xbox :) so hopefully my WAF will go through the roof!

Re:Have build several...

[Anonymous Coward]

True, but the thing about sound support on the mother board is that they usually aren't very high quality. I've tried hooking up some modern motherboards to a good stereo system, and I can say without a doubt that even a lowly sound blaster Live! 5.1 is a huge improvement. I'm not entirely sure why this is, but there you have it.

Of course, S/PDIF is the way to go in a theatre setup with more than two speakers, and many motherboards and sound cards include this for free. The bonus is that any Dolby Digital should be passed through unharmed and will automatically be decoded on the receiver, but any regular sound will be treated as CD quality PCM... Not bad at all!

Re:Have build several...

[datbox]

I'm curious if you could post some links for a few of these items. I'm looking at fry's now, and I don't see the good deals that you're getting. I'm interested right now in setting up my own mythtv box.

Thanks..

Re:Have build several...

[mythosaz]

Datbox, my email is shown in my profile. Feel free to contact me directly.

This weednesday, Frys had their $69 motherboard/processor deal. It included 3 PCI slots which is necessary to support all the tuners I planned on having in my rebuild. I purchased $38 of memory from NewEgg (went from $34 for the PQI to $38 for the Corsair). I bought my drives from Frys when they dropped to $109 with $60 in rebates for Hitachi 250's ($49 after rebate). This weekend drive is Seagate 250 PATA's for $69 after rebate -- and a gig of Corsair Value Ram for $49 after rebate. If you missed Wednesday's motherboard, the Intel version of the same board (integrated video, 3x PCI) is available in P4506 for $109.

You'll still pay "full price" for your tuners. Get a dual-tuner Hauppauge MCE500. You won't regret it. Then, add HiDef. You won't reget it either.

Here's the Frys ad online. This one's from Renton, but 99% of their ads are national. Vacuums and other household products are least likely to be on sale. Motherboards, drives, memory, networking -- almost always all national.

http://shopping.nwsource.com/ROP/ads.aspx?advid=15 0914&adid=2607297&cat=3525

Re:Have build several...

[Stanley1313]

Mythosaz I didn't see your email so I will post my question here. I am interested in building a media center pc to use on one TV. I am looking for something to work as a TiVo and to also play the music and videos I have on my other machines via the network. The idea to do this comes from me having extra parts. I have an Athlon64 3200+, an Asus A8V Deluxe mb and a BFG Tech 6800 vid card and an extra case. I would prefer to use something windows based because that is what I am used to. I have DirecTV with the older single receiver dish. I have a home theatre so a fancy sound card wouldn't be necessary. What do I need to make it work as far as hardware and software go? Thanks for any help with my first Slashdot post.

Um, no

[boldtbanan]

That says you can buy a PC at retail consumer electronic stores, direct from PC manufacturers, or through online consumer electronics Web sites with Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 pre-installed.

You're buying a PC with Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005. The phrasing doesn't make that 100% clear.

Re:Um, no

[EXMSFT]

Go to newegg (product is right here, and you can buy it. Really. It's that simple.

What is the point of a "media centre"?

[CyricZ]

I often hear about these so-called "media centres", and I must truly wonder what major benefit they bring. For the average person with a few dozen DVDs and music CDs, the cost would not appear to balance out the benefits one would reap.

It doesn't take long to switch a CD, and that may be completely unnecessary when using a multidisc player. Most people only find it useful to watch one DVD at a time, and again, the effort to change DVDs is minimal. With a length of cable on can even put the players right beside their chair for even easier access.

I would consider investing in a "media centre" once I knew what the benefit was. But I'm not about to go spend £1000 on something that'll only make it quicker to switch between my few DVDs and music CDs.

Re:What is the point of a "media centre"?

[mythosaz]

The "benefit" is essentially having a powerful TiVo-like device running your television.

My "television" is currently a $1,000 16x9 projector and a 72" screen connected to my computer running MCE. The computer cost less than $1000 to build with four-tuner (including 2 HiDef) support.

There's little in the way of music on my MCE box - a half a dozen albums I stuck in and let it rip one afternoon of housecleaning. I still stick my DVDs in one at a time when I watch them - as I've got a thousand (yeah...) and even transcoding them down and storing them on something would be a mammoth undertaking.

Re:What is the point of a "media centre"?

[ScottCooperDotNet]

For the public, having a Tivo-like box without a monthly fee is nice. For us, it's the same appeal plus the "BSD on a toaster" geek bonus.

Re:What is the point of a "media centre"?

[EXMSFT]

Things to do with a Media Center: 1: PVR (I use my 2 year old Windows MCE system for this pretty much every day. 2: Music storage. Trust me - it's more convenient when the discs are in one place on one HDD, accessible from one, easy UI. No more jewel boxes or Case Logic bags... 3: DVD playback (I rarely do this with mine, since I use Media Center Extenders - which don't support DVD playback over the wire). 4: Picture storage (I haven't discovered the nirvana of using this yet, myself) 5: Video storage (see 4 - I record tons of video - but haven't made the plunge of taking it all to the HDD)

Re:What is the point of a "media centre"?

[lagerbottom]

The PVR part is nice. I have a myth box and use it all the time. I would never have bothered with clunky vcr tapes and the bad UI on a vcr, but with mythweb I can schedule everything I may want to watch and then watch it when it's convienient to me. And I don't know, I don't really listen to music so I don't do much with that. The cd's I do have are all ripped to the server upstairs and I can mount them over samba and listen at the laptop if I am in the mood.

Re:What is the point of a "media centre"?

[zakezuke]

I often hear about these so-called "media centres", and I must truly wonder what major benefit they bring. For the average person with a few dozen DVDs and music CDs, the cost would not appear to balance out the benefits one would reap.

Discs go into long term storage, stuff you use gets stuck on a HD and is in finger stroke reach. Nifty but I'm in agreement with you. Given you can buy DIVX dvd recorders to do your serials, most DVD players can play .mp3 from DVD-rom, if you plan is to limit the amount of space entertainment discs take up it's not really worth it, esp since no bugger knows how to use a media center, but everyone can master putting the disc in and hitting play.

The only real benifit to a media center is the ability to download codecs, but even at $1000 this represents the value of many DVD players.

Re:What is the point of a "media centre"?

[Tarwn]

A friend of mine has his machine setup with SageTV and Jinzora music server. The music server allows him to listen to music right there (in jukebox mode) or stream it to any other computer in the house. His expensive 200-disc changer became a birthday present for a family member.
The SageTV install means that he can now record soaps for his fiance and let her watch them when he isn't home. :) (as well as the usual timeshifting capabilities, recording things for himself, etc). He could open the server to the whole world and let them stream music, but tat wouldn't exactly be legal or leave him any bandwidth, butheis putting in a new gateway router and is going to setup a VPN tunnel from work so we can stream music to work (automatically transcodes from the original flac files to mp3/ogg/whatever).
His fiance recently got an iPod, guess how happy she is to have their entire CD collection available in one location without having to hunt through a disc changer/cd book/basement for the orginal CD?
Since I am using MythTV on mine, I get the additional advantage of having a couple games on it to keep my fiance and other visitors busy, such as Mario 3, mario Kart, etc for SNES.

Re:Where do you get Windows Media Center Edition?

[fred fleenblat]

> TiVO, now the wholly-owned property of Microsoft IIRC

publicly traded, under the suprisingly obvious ticker symbol TIVO (nasdaq)

Fans?

[msbsod]

A Media Center PC with fans, like those on the Zalman heatsink, the Antec power supply or the case? Not for me!

Ugliest...

[truthsearch]

Ugliest... PC... ever.

And pop-under ads.

And > $2000 price tag.

Tastes like spam to me.

(Plus DigitalDame2's asp.net data storage is down.)

PVR or Gaming Machine?!?!

[SilicaiMan]

Paying $2200 for a PVR is just crazy. You certainly don't need a 64bit Athlon CPU or 2GB RAM, since everything is done by the graphics card anyway. And how many TV tuners do you need? Do you really need to watch/record 4 programs at once? And $75 for a keyboard and mouse that you will never use (remote desktop or VNC work just fine). This is crazy.

Last month, I built my own PVR. Here's my cost:

• ECS motherboard + Pentium 4CPU combo from Fry's: $110
• 512MB (2 x 256MB) of Kingston RAM: $50
• Zalman CPU fan (stock is just too noisy): $45
• Antec TruePower 2.0 380W power supply: $60
• GeforceFX 5200 (no fan == so silent): $40
• MS media center remote: $35 (yes, you really need this)

Items reused: OS, mouse & keyboard (for initial setup, then don't need them anymore), dual-tuner Tv tuner card, and PC case. Total cost for me was $340. If I had to buy the items I reused, then I could have very easily stayed under $500.

The machine is hidden behind my TV stand (I have a CRT 30" HDTV Sony Tv, 16:9 aspect ratio), is almost completely silent, and delivers a nice, crisp, HD signal to my TV (DVI port of my graphics card plugs in to the HDMI port of my TV). I keep it on all the time, and manage it via VNC. It has been running for almost a month with no hiccups, and I saved $1700 in the process.

Re:PVR or Gaming Machine?!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually most of the work is done by the TV tuner considering most of them have onboard MPEG encoders

Re:PVR or Gaming Machine?!?!

[caudron]

You certainly don't need a 64bit Athlon CPU or 2GB RAM, since everything is done by the graphics card anyway.

Anyone who plans on recording and watching actual HDTV will need a substantial CPU. The graphics card will not be enough. Especially if you intend to record and watch HDTV at the same time.

Re:PVR or Gaming Machine?!?!

[kesuki]

You certainly don't need a 64bit Athlon CPU

I beg to differ, I recently built a 'media center' pc around an AMD Athlon 64 Socket 754 3000+ E6 model cpu.

this cpu only costs $126 and puts out WAY less heat than anything in the althonXP line. less heat, less noise, a decent sized copper base heatsink and you won't even need to plug in a fan to keep this chip cool. for a 'media' PC the noise factor is crucial!

Re:PVR or Gaming Machine?!?!

[dabadab]

"You certainly don't need a 64bit Athlon CPU"

Well, it depends. If you plan on watching HD WMV you'd better have some serious CPU power in your HTPC since the current batch of video cards seems to offer only MPEG2 decoding. And how much power you need? My 1400 MHz Pentium M could not decode 1080p in realtime, so a VIA Eden unfortunately does not cut it.
P4s are a rather unfortunate choice for this task, since they are the most power hungry and heat generating CPUs that you can but today.

Re:PVR or Gaming Machine?!?!

[evilviper]

You certainly don't need a 64bit Athlon CPU or 2GB RAM, since everything is done by the graphics card anyway.

How does your graphics card decode WMV9 and H.264 video? Many videocards have MPEG-2 decoding, but that won't handle anything but OTA HDTV streams. Blu-ray, HD-DVD, HD DirecTV broadcasts (presumably ripped from a DVR), anything downloaded from the Internet, will likely almost never be MPEG-2, cutting you off from most HD videos.

Horsepower needed

[FrontalLobe]

If you're just looking for a PVR, ya, you really dont need all _that_ much...

Are you looking to upscale dvd's or playback h264 files, you'll need at least a 3200+ (or maybe a bit less if you only want the h264 playback). There's also sound cards for encoding to dolby digital 5.1 and such, for example, if you're hooking into a receiver and are looking for more than SPDIF playback from DVDs (such as playing games...)

The specs are overkill

[chmilar]

You can save a lot of money by downgrading from the specs in the article.

Any equivalent of a 3GHz P4 single-core is plenty of CPU for HDTV. A nvidia fx5200 is enough graphics card. For sound, you just need an spdif port if you already have a receiver.

And, of course, Linux and MythTV are free, and superior to MCE.

Re:The specs are overkill

[drewzhrodague]

Totally. I have to post about MythTV, I am a big fan.

I chose the KnoppMyth distro, which installs quite easily, but blows away your hard disk, and sets itself up neatly. I did try the RedHat RPM version (dag?), but I found it much easier to use the knoppix than the RPM version, due to things like remote control setups, and the like -- they're all there for you with KnoppMyth.

I'm using an old 850Mhz Pentium 3 I think. I've had the Intel mainboard for a while, and it kept (incorrectly) reporting disk errors with Windows, and bluescreening -- an old mainboard.

I used to use old ATI tuners, without the hardware MPEG. You'll need a pretty hardcore machine to read the data, compress it, and then write it to disk. I picked up a PVR-150, which has a hardware MPEG encoder. I paid $99 for it at COMPUSA, which is too much. Grab the card with two tuners from an online voodoo hut.

We don't have any big cable package -- just the cable TV that comes with the Comcast Internet. It is $10 cheaper if we have the cable, presumably because they want you to buy the $40 upgrade. Anyway, we have only like 12 channels of slightly useful stuff. But, with MythTV, we can make sure we get to watch Futurama, ST:TNG, and the other geeky shows we like to watch.

Re:The specs are overkill

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm using a PVR-350 (but I got the machine for free, so I didn't mind a little extra on the tuner). It works pretty well so far but I still have the TV-Out running through my video card.

I tried doing the output from the PVR-350. It works when you're watching a show or a recording, but the MythTV UI and menus still output the monitor. Not sure how to get that going -- I'm sure it's some obscure tweak to X.

Oh last note: I recommend using JFS for your filesystem. ext3 is just not that good at handling 2+ gb files.

Re:The specs are overkill

[evilviper]

Any equivalent of a 3GHz P4 single-core is plenty of CPU for HDTV.

Have you ever tried? I find my 2GHz Athlon is insufficent for H.264 1080p@24fps. I expect optimizations to libavcodec will improve the situation greatly, but for now, I don't think a 3GHz P4 will cut it. My system is just fast enough for 1080 with WMV9. Still, postprocessing of any kind is out-of-the-question.

I think with regards to the CPU and HDD, people should be getting the best they can afford, within reason. With videocards, any cheapish DVI NVidia card should be fine. You'll have to stick a 6600 or 6800 if you need component outs (via a cheap $15 adapter) both of which have/need cooling fans :-(

For sound, a SB Live is better than anyone could ever need. The 24bit versions are selling in stores for $25.

For a case, I'd get something very cheap, but well-designed (fan in-front of hard drives, power supply not blocking CPU, etc). I think my next case will be a $30 Enermax A106 case. Doesn't look like it belongs in a multimedia cabinet, but some black spray-paint (and replacement rubber feet) will take care of that.

Seasonic power supplies are very effecient, and will vastly reduce the heat output of your system, plus they have rather quiet fans. Or you can go for Enermax or Antec.

Maybe spend a little to get a good copper-base, 80mm heatsink from Alpha, Swiftech, Thermalright, Thermaltake, etc. Artic Silver heatsink paste or similar. Then put a nice, quiet and cheap 80mm Enermax fan (thermal-controlled unless you are getting a CnQ system). They're the best I've found, I just wish they had a much higher MTBF, remaining quite much longer...

I've personally never been able to stand MythTV. It was far to slow, convoluted, and clunky of a program for me. I just put something together with a filemanager, mplayer, and a few scripts. Maybe Freevo might be better, but I never got past the unnecessary manual channel configuration hassle.

I think a Hauppauge PVR-150 is cheap and good enough for anybody, although the more expensive PVR-250 comes with a very nice remote, I've used it daily for years now.

This article seemed to be a list of what's the most expensive and most trendy computer hardware right now.

Re:The specs are overkill

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

And, of course, Linux and MythTV are free, and superior to MCE.

According to whom? For most users, an MCE box is an easy buy - go to Best Buy and you'll see plenty of models that you can take home and have working today.

And if you want something cheap, TiVo is far more affordable than either MCE or Myth, even when you consider the monthly fee.

Re:The specs are overkill

[mad.frog]

I love the concept of KnoppMyth, but IMHO it doesn't have anywhere near the polish needed for a LiveCD distro. My earlier post on the fatal install flaws it had on my system: http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=17715 8&cid=14702591

Re:On the other hand... MythTV

[mythosaz]

MythTV is great, but it still lacks some of the Wife Acceptance Factor that Media Center Edition has.

It is certainly more configurable and tweakable, but like the parent said, OUT OF THE BOX, MCE is highly polished and ready for the family. Adding four tuners to an MCE box is easy enough for mom and pop.

Same Article?

[ggalt]

Same author, same system, slightly rewritten for PC Mag (original article date was 11/29/05). http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1893732 ,00.asp
I wonder if the guys at ExtremeTech know that their author resold the story he sold them.

Re:Same Article?

[L7_]

I wonder how much the author received in royalties for using those specific (and as others pointed out, non-optimal) components. Of all the DIY options, they don't seem to be very thougth out.

Re:Same Article?

[Gumber]

I think ExtremeTech and PC Mag have the exact same publisher.

Re:Same Article?

[Tiger4]

Wow! I thought I was having deja-vu, but I almost never read PC Mag online. But I remembered that DRM workaround so clearly as I was reading it. I just figured this day was harder than I thought. Or that /. had published another dupe. Or maybe both are true.

Others that sell Media Center software

[ndtechnologies]

8 Dimensions is a company based in Seattle thats sells their Media pc software for 60 bucks. It supports tons of formats too. http://8dim.com/

Re:Others that sell Media Center software

[Ruff_ilb]

If you're not going to use MS, You're probably best off using linux.

What I want with my MythTV

[T3kno]

Is a software or flashable hardware based Dolby Digital/DTS/SDDS/Whatever the digital audio format of the day is decoder card with 9-13 preamp outputs that I can throw into my PC. Then I want a switching video input card, with say 4 - HDMI inputs, 4 - BNC component inputs, a DVI input or 2, a couple of s-video inputs for good measure. Now that would make a wicked Media PC. No need for a DVD player, a Receiver/Decoder or a DVR. While I'm thinking about it a FTA decoder card would be nice too, you could even throw a CableCard slot in somewhere. One box that records and stores all of my media and is responsible for sending everything audio and video out to where it needs to go. Yeah right, maybe in 25 years or so. Oh yeah, Linux drivers for the lot. :)

A question of Watts

[bhima]

Has anyone seen an attempt to do a H.264 capable version with the lowest reasonable power consumption?

Not just the CPU either... I'm talking about the whole kit.

PHULEEZE, I can build one for HALF that!!!

[SeattleGameboy]

Here is a complete MCE machine that is more than capable. And it does not cost anywhere near two grand. (prices off Newegg.com)

Motherboard:
BIOSTAR NF4 4X-A7-COMBO31 AMD Athlon64 3000+ Socket 754 NVIDIA nForce4 4X ATX Motherboard/CPU Set - $179

Memory:
CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Dual Channel Kit System Memory - $74.99

DVD Drive:
NEC Beige IDE DVD Burner Model ND-3550A - 37.99

Hard Drive:
2 SAMSUNG SpinPoint P Series 250GB 3.5" IDE Ultra ATA133 Hard Drive - $95/each, $190 for 2

Case:
Antec LifeStyle SONATA II Piano Black Computer Case (with 450W quiet power supply) - $99

OS:
Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 w/Update Rollup Release 2 OEM 1 Pack - $114.95

Video Card:
Rosewill Geforce 6600 R6600-256D Video Card - $109.99

Analog Tuner:
VisionTek VTK-THXP550P PCI Interface Xtasy Theater 550 Pro PVR XP Edition w/Snapstream PVR software - $78.99/each 2 for $157.98

HDTV Tuner:
KWORLD ATSC-110 PCI Digital / Analog HDTV Tuner - $93

(comes with remote)

For a GRAND TOTAL of - $1055.95

Hell you can blow another couple of hundred on a kick ass remote and you will still be close to half the price they have quoted.

Guarantee, this will work JUST as well if not better than what they have in the article.

Pfft.. stupid..

[Computeradam]

I rather buy a nice 50 inch plazma TV and a Tivo. for this much.

Re:Pfft.. stupid..

[schnikies79]

exactly. i have a modded series 1 tivo with lifetime. granted it dosen't do HD, but that will change come sometime later this year with the series 3 tivo.

it works, it's simple, it never crashes, and no drm. (tytool allows video extraction)

Re:$2200, ouch.

[YrWrstNtmr]

A laptop, with an external drive if necessary.

$2,276 may seem like a lot,

[Sir_Cockalot]

but they're using a lot of "quality" parts. Sure you can go cheaper or you can use an old PC if you have one lying around. Keep in mind that you need a powerful PC is your going to work with HD content and that's what they're account for. A good option if you're going the MythTV route and have the budget and time is to use a 1.5 to 2 Ghz machine as a backend server and a 1GHZ via board as a front end server. You can then have a box in each room and rip/burn from any room. Keep in mind you'll need mutliple tuner cards if you want to record more than one show at a time. A benefit of MythTV is being able to rip DVD's and music etc and watch them in any room at any time. However in the end you'll spend a bit more, but have a lot more flexibilty as well.

Re:$2,276 may seem like a lot,

[lockefire]

Can you stream HD over your home network (wired) w/ MythTV w/out quality loss?

Beeeee....caaaaause...

[cthellis]

...everyone has been dying to make their MCPC's 50%+ more expensive than the overpriced ones already out there?

Aren't people mainly looking for the thing to be able to record programs and serve up media, not replace every other HiFi device they (probably) already have hooked UP in their living rooms?

Not worth it.

[rAiNsT0rm]

I have built two media center PC's and spent countless hours tweaking and setting them up properly. I recently moved and got DISH Network TV, and a free new 100 hour DVR for free... it is by far better and easier to use than both media PC's combined.. Total cost to me $9.99 a month.

Sure it may not do everything a media PC can, but for the cost and functionality it is a much better deal.

Just my 2 pence, I know the geek factor is always there... but this is not one area where geek factor pays off IMO.

Re:Not worth it.

[Anonymous Coward]

I reluctantly have to agree here. While I like my MCE system and it has worked fine for over 2 yrs, I can't say it was worth the time getting it setup and working properly. I imaged my system after I got it tweaked in case the boot drive ever crashes.

A couple comments if you still decide to do this:
1) Yep, you can do it a lot cheaper than 2K
2) I recommend quiet CPU and case fans and a quiet PS if you're going to have the machine near your TV. I can say my MCE machine is much quieter than the Tivo's and commercial PVR's I've seen/used, which always annoyed me with their loud fans.
3) I disagree with an earlier post that said you should buy a cheap soundcard. If you plug this into your stereo/home theater system you're going to notice the noisier, compressed sound from a cheap card. This is one area worth spending a few $$ more on.

The easiest path to media pc goodnes...

[Ours]

Is not to get a real PC.
I've been planing for almost a year to build myself a media pc. Compared different possibilities, looked around for the software I could use.
And in the end I've settled of a modded XBOX. Best choice for the price!
It does everything I want with the fantastic XBOX Media Center software plus some other homebrew software (XMAME and stuff) and a couple of nice Python scripts.
The only technical requirement it to know how to user FTP.
On the downside, it's doesnt do PVR at all :-(. If someone figured out how to stick a TV card on this thing I'm pretty sure they'll make to software for it but it's not the case.
So if you can live without the PVR facilities, this baby should do all you music listening, movie playing, picture browsing and classic gaming on your TV.
You can put the money saved of a PC to buy a dedicated PVR which can be programmed form the XBOX. There are scripts the show the TV program and can control some PVRs.

Re:The easiest path to media pc goodnes...

[ShyGuy91284]

XBox can't act as a tuner, but It can run as a Set-top interface for a MythTV server. You can do it through Linux (which sucks compared to XBMC for this sort of purpose), but I've see python (I think) bindings and stuff for XBMC to allow it to act as a direct terminal for MythTV. Haven't tried them though, so not sure how well they work (if at all).

Re:The easiest path to media pc goodnes...

[BloodAngel_Au]

I have the same thing, I just want the MCE machine to fill in the PVR section, everything can play through the xbmx XBMC setup :) (after automatic conversion)

Re:The easiest path to media pc goodnes...

[evilviper]

I can build a very fast, damn-near silent system, which can playback HDTV in realtime, etc., for less than you'll spend on an Xbox. Plus, it isn't as screwed as your Xbox when you want to put in a DVD-burner, TV-capture card, etc.

This dedication to Xbox must be from people that are dedicated to not assembling the system themselves... which isn't difficult at all.

Re:The easiest path to media pc goodnes...

[Ours]

Don't spit on the people who don't have the time, the money, the skill or just don't like to build themselves a system. My case being the last one, I spend enought time at work making computers roll over so when I get home I don't feel like spending too much time on then.
Those who want to can go and build their own ultimatelly-customized setup which is pretty cool. It's just not for everybody.

Solid state hard drive

[cjHopman]

Their PC is way more powerful than it needs to be. Should have saved some money on cpu/graphics/memory. Those savings then could be used to make that thing so much quieter. Number one change in my opinion would be to use a sp;od state storage, such as http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2006q1/gigabyte- iram/index.x?pg=1(possibly the only use I would have for one of these currently). Also I'd use a near-silent psu and water cooling...

Any recommendations for non PVR media machines

[merchant_x]

I already have a Tivo that I've hooked into my network so I have no need for PVR functionality. What I'm interested in is a rig to deliver my digital media to my main entertainment center. I figure any decent PC with a video out is fine. Does anyone have any recomendations for hardware that will facilitate the the ripping of DVD's so that I can store them on the HDD of the machine? Preferably in mpeg4 format. I've done some searching but there don't seem to be any dedicated mpeg4 encoder cards available for non professional use. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Re:Any recommendations for non PVR media machines

[Damvan]

Gotta say that the easiest solution for you would be a modded Xbox with Xbox Media Center.

My way:

[corychristison]

I am in the process of building a PRV/HTPC system. I went a slightly different route: ** NOTE: Canadian Prices ** - Obtained an old, broken DVD player and gutted it(APEX AD-1500) for the casing. (FREE) - VIA EPIA-M10000 Mother board [$230] - Mini-Box 200 watts Power Supply [$90] - Pioneer DVD-/+RW [$45] - 512MB SODIMM RAM [$75] - 250GB hard drive [$120] - Some odds and ends... [$20] - MythTV [FREE] Total: $580 :-) The reason I am choosing an old DVD player as a case, is I don't like the ugly cases available. I don't need 2 5" bay slots, and I don't need any 3.5" bay slots. I want something small, simple, and looks like a usual DVD player. :-)

Re:My way:

[corychristison]

DAMNIT! Forgot to post as Plain Text:

I am in the process of building a PRV/HTPC system. I went a slightly different route:

** NOTE: Canadian Prices **

- Obtained an old, broken DVD player and gutted it(APEX AD-1500) for the casing. (FREE)
- VIA EPIA-M10000 Mother board [$230]
- Mini-Box 200 watts Power Supply [$90]
- Pioneer DVD-/+RW [$45]
- 512MB SODIMM RAM [$75]
- 250GB hard drive [$120]
- Some odds and ends... [$20]
- MythTV [FREE]

Total: $580 :-)

The reason I am choosing an old DVD player as a case, is I don't like the ugly cases available. I don't need 2 5" bay slots, and I don't need any 3.5" bay slots. I want something small, simple, and looks like a usual DVD player. :-)

My answer:

[zakarria]

1. Build homemade PC.

2. Insert Media.

Get a decent CPU. Get a lot of RAM. Get a big Harddrive. Get a DVD burner. Get other bells and whistles as you wish. Modern PCs are media centers already, even $500 models.

Re:My answer:

[pintomp3]

you're forgetting the tv tuner. otherwise you lose all the pvr functions. that is what makes a "media center" different from a computer that can play media.

Re:My answer:

[zakarria]

Hmm... you're right. I have this funny way of forgetting that anybody cares about TV anymore. :-D

You need KnoppMyth...

[Anonymous Coward]

www.mysettopbox.tv

Re:On the other hand... MythTV

[nmos]

MythTV is great, but it still lacks some of the Wife Acceptance Factor that Media Center Edition has.

I'm not sure what makes you think that. My wife is about as non-technical as they come and she loves MythTV. This isn't just some recent development either, she basically took it over a year or two ago. Now if I had asked her to buy the parts and set it up then I could see your point (once I finished stringing ethernet cable out to the dog house) but once it's set up Myth is as friendly and easy to use as ANYTHING out there including Tivo. Subjectivly MCE still feels more like "TV on a computer" to me.

HTPC in a stereo chassis

[suraklin]

I recently put a HTPC into an old Sony stereo case. My total cost was about $350. It doesn't do DVR but I already have one so I didnt need that functionality. I installed Window XP media center because I had a spare license sitting around, so that would have been another $100 added to the cost. I had an Athlon 1800 sitting around so all that was left to purchase was the motherboard, RAM, DVD, video card and HDD, and a small PSU. I was also able to pick up a Logitech wireless keyboard mouse combo for $30. All of the internals and brackets came out of the stereo and everything shoehorned into the chassis with a little Dremel work. For software I use the excellent Mediaportal. I use this to watch Anime and play all of my emulated games on the television. The only difficulty I had was a small heat issue when I had it sitting on top of my Home Theater Recieverr. I put in an 80mm fan and put the HTPC on its own shelf and the heat is tolerable, Cpu runs at 100 degrees F. It was a fun project that I would like to try again.

Tivo = only $200

[reaktor]

Tivos can be found for $200.

Re:On the other hand... MythTV

[mythosaz]

Well, that is the point, unfortunately.

Lacking 100 wives and a nice set of out-of-the-box MCE and out-of-the-box Myth setups, we may never have anything conclusive -- but for the time being, I'm going to give the edge to MCE in total WAF.

Alternative to a HTPC

[wilson316]

This is pretty much a re-hash of what I wrote a few months ago. I bought a Pinnacle Showcenter 1000g after spending forever on trying to slap together a HTPC using old pc parts. The showcenter is a really nice unit for what it cost me ($64) It does everything I wanted ..mp3's,divx,xvid..etc.. The only bad point is that I can not record tv shows on it. All it does is stream movies and mp3's via wireless off my HD into my entertainment system. If someone wants something easy to setup the showcenter might be your best bet if you can get them for under $100 on fleabay.

Success story

[DarkMantle]

Here's all it takes to make a good Media Centre, running Windows MCE nicely. Please note, prices and spelling are canadian. (Hence Centre)

AMD Athalon64 3000 (or so) ~$400
nVidia nForce 4 Motheboard ~80-150
nVidia nvTV (can't remember the price)
nVidia GeForce 6200 ~$90
512MB RAM (1GB Recommended) $70/512
80GB SATA Hard drive. $80 - DO NOT RAID! MCE don't seem like it.

After recording send stuff accross the network to backup the videos or store on a USB drive. Failing that Burn to DVD using nero 7. It can convert the MCE videos into DVD format for play in any dvd player.

Grand total, around $750 + software. And works quite well.

Re:Success story

[Anonymous Coward]

"Please note, prices and spelling are canadian."

IN canada our mothers have no arse, and our athlons have extra a's eh?

bah

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux and MythTV will do much better.

Myth Vs MCE VS Hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

Firstly PVR cards new nowadays like the hauppage do the mpeg encoding so theres no real overhead on the CPU other than disk usage...cpu is less depended on so a cheap and nasty can be fine with them...i have 3 pvr 150s in mine

Via chipset Mobos suck stay away from them if you can as they have quirky DMA stuff.....it works just stutters occasionally etc..

MCE is very much a patch ridden thing....Dot.net issues regularly, no program guide for Autralia so you have to hack EPGrunner onto it...Its also hardware picky...i think but havent check lately that you need MCE versions of the cards.....unconfirmed to me..

Myth rocks for alot of things but is a bitch to get installed the first few times until you understand it all....once its up and running tho your a happy camper...

personally i have both on my system mainly so i can play games also...battlefield 2

you should be able to get out of any system sub 1000 for basic 1 tuner...add tuners at about $150 Australian each so bugger all really..

Perfece DVR for ~$250

[ThePopeLayton]

Just go buy a TiVo or get a DVR free with direct TV. Most of us are already paying for satalite or cable service so the Direct TV costs are not going to change your monthly expenses. Also with the real commercial thing it is a simple set up process that any computer illiterate person can set up. There is no complicated (or expensive) software to install and set up and has a sweet remote to go with it, and it doesn't run on windows!!!. Yes it is from corperate america and no it doesn't run on open source but you can by 10 for the price it takes to build your own.

Re:Perfece DVR for ~$250

[Anonymous Coward]

And every time you replay Janet Jackson's "Wardrobe malfunction", it sends a record back to Tivo!

Software that works with a WIndows Media Extender

[Gyorg_Lavode]

Does anyone know of softare that works with any windows media extenders? I need something like MythTV, SageTV, or BeyondTV that interfaces with a windows media extender to supply HD video and digital surround sound audio. Also want the PVR stuff, (pause, ff, live TV type stuff). Unfortunately it doesn't seem like anyone has done this yet. (Someone on the SageTV forums started work on something for a roku photobridge but I don't think it really was moving fast.) I want a simple, quiet piece of hardware in the front w/ a hunk of a computer back in my rack doing the hard work. And I want it in a format I can take w/ me or watch on any of my computers.

Myth TV Is Great -- If you can set it up

[Ahnteis]

My ex-roommate, who is very familiar with Linux spent over 20 hours trying to get MythTV to work with his hardware. I don't know if he's even managed to get it working completely yet.

MythTV looks like it'd be great--**if** you can get it working.

Re:Myth TV Is Great -- If you can set it up

[lauterm]

Did he use FC4, the excellent instructions at http://wilsonet.com/mythtv/fcmyth.php, and Axel's excellent RPMs? It does take some time. It probably took me about 10-12 hours to get everything set up the first time.

Re:Myth TV Is Great -- If you can set it up

[Fratz]

The founder of KnoppMyth had similar issues when he was first installing MythTV, which is why he made KnoppMyth http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html. On Dragon http://mythic.tv/product_info.php?products_id=44 reference hardware, time between inserting the KnoppMyth CD and actually running MythTV can be as little as 21 minutes, and most of that time is spent waiting for automatic processes to finish. There's very little interaction required on the part of the user.

Hunh. I thougt M$ bought 'em a couple years ago.

[mmell]

Guess I was wrong.

MCE Retail Box

[Scott Swezey]

Maybe I should have RTFA, but I have never seen a MCE retail box anywhere, and was always under the impression that you could only get it preinstalled on computers from companies like Dell, HP, etc.

And of course, why anyone would want MCE is over my head, but that is another discussion. (I'll spare you the review, but I will say that it fits in "well" with Windows and other M$ Programs...)

Re:Software that works with a WIndows Media Extend

[Anonymous Coward]

Doubt whether this supports HDTV:

http://www.sagetv.com/extender.html

My initial setup

[patelbhavesh]

I have started documenting some the stuff I did with knoppix to build my htpc solution.It is not complete but just a start.
Here is the web page if anyone is interested
http://bhavesh.freeshell.org/htpc.html

Rather than subtracting

[Andy Dodd]

Build from the ground up.

My total cost, including 5 250 gig drives (total $500 there) for a total of 1 TB usable RAID 5 space, an Athlon 64 X2 (massive overkill, although very nice if you want to transcode some things to a lower res/bitrate after recording), a high-end UPS, and a dual-tuner Hauppauge PVR-500 was approx. $1750 from NewEgg.

A system similar to my old Myth box (which is still my main desktop machine) could easily be built for less than $1000.

A tivo and a modded xbox

[saboola]

If you do the math of building a unit, then the time (labor hours) to get it running right, then the "discussions" with your other half why your MythTV installation is so complicated, you will almost always win out buying a tivo (if all your going to do is use it to record tv, listen to music, etc..) I got one for 30 bucks from Tivo, and threw a 250 gig harddrive in it. Wife loves it, and using a USB2 nic I can do almost everything a media center PC can do (almost). As for everything else, Xbox Media Center is where its at. The two make a dynamite couple.

PCI-E based Capture cards with Linux Support?

[NoNickNameForMe]

Slightly offtopic: I'm trying to find out the availability of PCI-E based capture cards, and more importantly, Linux Support? AFAIK, I've only seen pre-announcements of products with PCI-E interface.

IMHO, this is going to be the 'next big hurdle' in doing your own Media Center. I've struggled enough with the analog TV capture cards in the past... the saa7134 TV chipset took a while before it was properly supported, for example.

GB-PVR on the cheap

[TheLoneIguana]

Mine is just a FrankenPC P3-1ghz/512MB. I have it running GB-PVR, which has been working nicely, if a little quirky at times. The Hauppage PVR-150 does it's job well.
I have been playing around with MediaPortal a bit, although it's a bit too much for my system to handle, I think.
MythTV taxed my patience, and after much twiddling about with it, I've put it on the back burner for now in favor of the (gack) Windows based solutions.
I was recently given a 2.6GHz machine with a bad board in otherwise mint condition, so that's gonna be next in line one I order a replacement.

What a shame to install MCE...

[lynchaj]

When you can more easily install Debian and MythTV.

http://amicus.sourceforge.net/

Get AMICUS for MythTV on Debian. Just what you need and no more. Meant for new users and low end PCs. Easy to follow guide with menu driven script.

Forget all that MS hoopla. Now go get a decent Linux PVR!

I Did it Cheaper and Better

[eno2001]

The ultimate OS for building a Media Center is Linux. But that's not what this is about. Regardless of what OS you choose to go with, the BEST approach to setting up a media PC is the "invisibility" mod. How is that accomplished? Careful planning. My PC is in the basement on some custom shelving directly beneath where the 37" LCD monitor is. EVERYTHING is controlled from the Gnome GUI with custom launchers for everything. This is better (for my needs) than MythTV or Freevo (not to take anything away from those excellent projects) because it's not an "easy to use GUI", it's a standard desktop that my family already knows how to use. They can do everything from the desktop. Control the volume, change channels, look at ANY media whether stored locally, via NFS or online. But the best thing is that it isn't visible at all and the only connections coming up to the living room are DVI and USB. That's it. My case mod is a house built circa 1914. ;)

Hell for that much I'd skip the media center...

[Zantetsuken]

and just like one of the new AMD FX 60s an SLI mobo, and dual SLI nVidia 7800 GTs, and probly still have enough for a couple hundred gig hard-drive - then even get one of the cheap Hauppage $50 tv tuners (got one o those tuners now)... but then again I'm a gamer freak, not a enterainment center freak...

One acronym...

[dhanes]

DRM

Not having to sit through mandatory 'upcoming releases' ( years after they've been released ) is even a more compelling reason for me to have gone the myth route. Yes, everything you mentioned is true, but you neglected to even touch on the negative sides of using a MSoft/Proprietary solution. The flexibility afforded by an open-source platform such as MythTV more than makes up for that ease of use.

Yes, that flexibility comes at a price. Helluva lot of hoops to jump through to get what you want. My biggest complaint is the remote control support. Lirc DOES take a ton of work to work with Myth and the various components. And I still haven't figured out how to make my LED display on my nice Silverstone box even light up.

Hopefully Myth will eventually move out of the hobbyist arena and have at least a simple basic setup that everyone can use easily, and allow a more specialized setup for the rest of us.

Re:One acronym...

[Anonymous Coward]

So far with Media Center installed, I can run all my xvid/divx contents, and PVR-MS files can be played across the network and on my laptops without an issue. DRM hasnt even creeped up on me...once! End of the day, I dont have the time to fiddle with MytvTV to get its broken DVB support active.

Overkill

[NerdENerd]

My Athlon XP 2800+ HTPC with 1gig of ram and an ATI 9600 I built 2 years ago does the job fine. I can upscale DVD to 1080i and watch HDTV fine. I wouldn't spend that much money on those components as you are just going to be watching video on it. Mine was pretty top end at the time but you needed it then for HDTV, now middle of the range stuff will do fine if you don't plan on playing 3D games.

Since ExtremeTech and PCMag are both

[wiredog]

owned by ZDNet, I suspect the answer is "yes".

Buy from Manufacturers that pre-install GNU/Linux!

[UseFree.org]

There are plenty of manufacturers that sell PCs and Laptops that are already loaded with GNU/Linux, KDE, and lots of other useful Free & Open Source Software applications.

There's absolutely no reason to buy computers or accessories from the major manufacturers that stuff Treatcherous Computing, Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) and M$ Winblows down your throat.

NeoHE problems, esp with Asus nVidia

[Anonymous Coward]

the NeoHE supplies didn't seem to fare all that well when reviewed, some seemed incompatible with Asus nVidia boards, and there seem to be reliability issue ...

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article273-page5.htm l

Knoppmyth Reference Platform

[NereusRen]

Knoppmyth, the MythTV distro built around Knoppix, publishes some "reference platforms" spec that they promise to support fairly well in all future versions, and which get the job done fairly nicely. They have only published one system so far ("Dragon"), a single-tuner box. You can either buy it pre-assembled and installed for $1450, or get all the components individually for about $1200 minus whatever parts you might already have.

I happened to have an extra hard drive and dvd drive lying around, so I bought the rest of the spec mostly from NewEgg and built a Dragon myself, and haven't had any hardware problems so far. It holds up under the load of recording one stream and watching another off the hard drive just fine, and their attention to noise level means that even though I didn't put in the recommended extra-quiet CPU fan, the box itself is inaudible when I'm actually watching anything. Highly recommended for anyone who wants a Linux-based HTPC, either pre-built or from scratch.

KnoppMyth is just Frontend, correct?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought KnoppMyth was just for the frontend. Am I wrong?

OSS features

[el americano]

It's not as easy as you think to generalize all free software. Did you ever try to install Firefox? Was that a lot of work for you? It had tabbed browsing and pop-up blocking when I couldn't get the same from IE. Also, the open architectures are more extendable in the long run.

On the other hand, if you only want the features a company has chosen for you, and you've got extra cash lying around, knock yourself out. I hear Photoshop is pretty good.

$2200???

[Timberwolf0122]

Mine has only cost £500ish ($800) and thats with the new hard disk and Creative Labs 7.1 Audigy + Giga works speakers.

Come bonus time and another £300($500?) and I'll have a RAID-5 plus another 2 digital decoders (thankyou ebay!).

news? ads!

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it just me, or the pc-mag website is way to much crowded with ads? I mean, there are about 5 short lines of useful relevant text and the rest is ads!

Also, I thought this was "News for nerds, stuff that matters". How can this be news? There are already so many people who have done this before, and much better! What the **, even I have done something similar to solve my video/movies needs.

You guys are not making money out of that link to pc-mag are you?
(now someone nests a comment in the typical 1) place bad quality link to pc-mag ...profit!

James
www.cinXXcinaXXto.oXXrg
(remove big Xs)

AOpen i915GMm-HFS mobo

[rcamera]

i was recently looking at the AOpen i915GMm-HFS Micro ATX Intel Motherboard which sports onboard high-def audio and hdtv encoder, dual gigabit ethernet, usb, firewire, sata, sata2, etc. i was thinking of buying one of these, throwing some ddr2 memory, a semi-big sata2 disk and a pci tv tuner. i've read a few reviews of this type of setup for this mobo, but do any /.rs have any experience running linux/mythtv on one of these boards? i would love to turn this into my tv-ripping, low-use home file server. i have priced out this system for under $1600, so i think it would be a worthwile investment. any thoughts?

Cheap HTPC

[puuhiz]

I created my own cheap HTPC from leftover parts, project page is here. I used that hardware for a while, and updated to 1000 MHz Duron, 512 MB SDRAM, Radeon 9550 and LG DVD -drive (haven't updated that information to page yet..)

cpu will melt

[scharkalvin]

His cpu is going to melt. The way he installed the cpu fan he got the power cable
stuck in the fan blades and the fan ain't going to turn!

It's an ASF container...

[Anonymous Coward]

so the file includes all the meta data about the show (pretty much everything from the EPG that is known about the show/espidode) that was recorded, including the closed captioning if available.

If you build your own PC...

[Anonymous Coward]

You are an OEM as far as Microsoft is concerned.

Mythtv is fine, but your card may be trouble

[sjwaste]

I'm having a fair amount of problems tuning ATSC content with myth, mostly due to buggy driver support for the DVICO FusionHDTV5 Lite. It segfaults quite a bit. I hear the driver will be integrated in the next kernel, so I have my fingers crossed that the bugs are ironed out.

On the other hand, an ivtv-based card, like a Hauppauge PVR-150 works great, despite the drivers being "buggy" according to the project site :)

One word answer: MythTV !!!!

[boy_afraid]

One word answer: MythTV !!!!

What part of "silent" don't you understand

[renehollan]

I just don't get uber-powerful media center PCs that have fans, and are therefore not silent.

I can understand the need for lots of processing power, disk I/O bandwidth, and fast drives (distinguishing between disk peak and sustained transfer rates), and that this generally results in extensive heat production, and thus the need for cooling.

But, such a device really belongs in a separate room -- a geek would put one in his server rack.

It might be convenient that it could also provide a convenient UI, with TV output, rather like a TV studio feed monitor, but it's not the sort of thing I want in my media room because of the noise. I'd only accept it if I was desperate and couldn't also afford a front end unit, charged solely with display.

The problem is that everyone focuses on the processor-intensive backend functionality, and does not produce a seperate frontend unit.

MythTV addresses this very issue architecturally, but trying to build a silent Myth frontend remains difficult: MPEG2 decoding, particularly at HD resolutions taxes the CPU, and H/W MPEG2 decoders generally lack Linux support usually due to the absense of documentation without NDA. An exception to this is the work poineerd by David George and later taken up by Ivor Hewett of the OpenChrome project.

OpenChrome serves as a fork of unichrome development for the Via Unichrome® CLE266 and Unichrome Pro® CN400 northbidges: the CLE266 contains a "crippled" MPEG2 decoder that is good to SD resolutions, and the CN400 contains an MPEG2 decoder good to HD resolutions (and a bit beyond) and an MPEG4 "accellerator". Readers will recall that the original unichrome drivers were based on reverse engineering of Via's binary-only drivers. I'm not certain, but I think that Via finally opened their own drivers, with the exception of MPEG2 and MPEG4 hooks. These drivers replaced the reverse engineered unichrome drivers, which now lack any MPEG2 or MPEG4 support... except for Ivor's Openchrome work.

The practical upshot of all this is that one can obtain low power Eden C3 CPUs on motherboards with CN400 northbridges that require little (one fansink putting out 14 to 20 dBa of noise on the 1.0 GHz nanoITX board) or no (800 MHz nanoITX) board. The CN400 is also available on some Socket370 motherboards (made known to me thanks to a long thread here with one "evilpiper"), so that one could use a fanless P III or C3 CPU if one wanted.

To be fair, "networked" DVD players exist which can do the same thing, but (a) they all rely on a UPnP host (I'm not sure of the state of UPnP support on Linux), (b) aren't as flexible as a MythTV frontend, and (c) probably won't render anything better than 480p without all sorts of DRM.

So, when I see the latest "media PC" article describing some uberpowerful system with a zillion (zillion, adj.: 1. many. 2. more than zero in the context of a media PC's fans) fans, I ask myself, "Yeah, but what about the silent part in the media room?"