Yes, the suicide hapend in 8 March 2005. But the officials deny any correlation with the tapping events.
http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text?c=112&id=948 56912> (in Greek)
Here is a diary of the whole story:
*
orked in the company from 1995 and had specialty in mobile systems security, commits suicide.
10 March 2005: The taps were reported to Greek PM.
11 March 2005: The taps were reported privately to the government and to prosecuteors.
3 January 2006 The whole story goes public.
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sperxios10 [ Log Out ]
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reposting due to bad format
Yes, the suicide hapend in 8 March 2005. But the officials deny any correlation with the tapping events. http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text?c=112&id=948 56912> (in Greek)
Here is a diary of the whole story:
spring-summer-winter of 2004taps were working. That summer was when the Greek Olympic Games took place.
7 March 2005: Taps were discovered and were immediately deleted as commanded by mother Vodafone, England .
9 March 2005: A technician who worked in the company from 1995 and had specialty in mobile systems security, commits suicide.
10 March 2005: The taps were reported to Greek PM.
11 March 2005: The taps were reported privately to the government and to prosecuteors.
3 January 2006 The whole story goes public.
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spring-summer-winter of 2004taps were working. That summer was when the Greek Olympic Games took place.
7 March 2005: Taps were discovered and were immediately deleted as commanded by mother Vodafone, England
.
9 March 2005: A technician who worked in the company from 1995 and had specialty in mobile systems security, commits suicide.
10 March 2005: The taps were reported to Greek PM.
11 March 2005: The taps were reported privately to the government and to prosecuteors.
Yes, the suicide hapend in 8 March 2005. But the officials deny any correlation with the tapping events.
http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text?c=112&id=948 56912> (in Greek)
Here is a diary of the whole story:
spring-summer-winter of 2004taps were working. That summer was when the Greek Olympic Games took place.
7 March 2005: Taps discovered and were immediately deleted as command by mother Vodafone, England.one day after the taps were found by Vodafone, and 1 day before reported to government officials.
9 March 2005: The technician who worked in the company from 1995 and had specialty in mobile systems security.
10 March 2005: The taps were reported to Greek PM.
11 March 2005: The taps were reported the government and judicial officials.
3 January 2006 The whole story goes public.
If try to write my own comprehension of the EPR paradox, will you please correct me?
The Experiment:
2 labs, A and B, far appart, that can measure spin directions on entagled pairs of particicles.
The measurement of a spin must be made against some axis (in 3D), and the result value is UP or DOWN.
The labs settle on a number of common axis to make the mesaurements against.
The Results:
In the simplest situation, when 1 axis selected, everything works fine. Whatever lab A finds UP, the lab B finds DOWN, and both result sets statistically confront to spin theory (50% UP) as long the particicle creation process doesnt promote one state (ie. spintronics devices).
When 2 axes are selected, if those are perpendicular, everything is also simple, yet, when the 2 labs coincede on the axis, the results are exactly the opposites always.
If the axis are not perpendicular, problems arise that are easier to make them profound when we measure against 3 perpendicular axis.
When measuring against 3 perpendicular axis, X, Y and Z, the statistical correlation of the lab results makes the problem shine!
(hidden parameters)
The background of the problem assumes that in order to have a realistic explaination of the experiment, there has to be a "hidden variable" that guides the result particiles give. This parameter is set up during the creation of the particle pair, and remains unchaged. Imagine this parameter as the clock index on a clock. This clock gives answers UP or DOWN, depending on how close is the index on a certain hour. For instance if we measure against the vertical axis (12 to 6), then from 9 to 3, are UP, and from 3 to 9 are DOWN. Now take this into 3D ( a sphere's radious), and suppose that the paired particicles have their index at exactly oposite directions.
If some lab were to measure against any axis then, according to the "hidden parameter" realistic theory, they would get ofcousre 50% UPs, as long as (geometrically speaking) the "hidden radius" is included on the hemisphere having as its zenith the point where the UPward half-axis pops out of the sphere.
Till now, everything is OK.
The Abduction (bell's inequalities):
Now imagine lab A measuring a number of particiles against axis X and lab B measuring those particiles against axis Y. The both come up with 50% results. But this means that the "hidden" index is more close to the intersections of X and Y hemispheres (a quarter od the sphere). So, that leaves the other directions, axis Z, with (someone do the bounded propabilities math HERE) 33%. which is INCORRECT.
If it were a third lab C to measure against axis Z, they would also find 50% UPs (but that's not possible, since a particile cannot be measured twice).
There is a circular abbey, inhabited by the most devoted but intelligent monks. Each monk spends its entire life in its own cell. The cells are line up one next to the other, around the atrium. Each cell has one balcony looking over that round atrium from where each monk can inspect the rest. All the monks visit that balcony every day of their life, at the same time in the morning and look at each other. The monks are not allowed to communicate with anyone by any means (words, signs, telepathy or whatever) at any time.
The Voice of God
One day, the monks hear the voice of God whispering them the following words:
"Tomorrow, some of you will be chosen to abandon this vain life. This night, at your sleep, an angel of death will sneak into your cells. This angel will paint a black spot on the forehead of the chosen ones. It is your duty to obey my will, so, those among you currying the spot should within, a finite period of time, end your life and come to join me!.
The Conundrum
The next day, there were indeed monks with spots. Of course since there were no mirrors inside the cells, and the spots weren't relief, the monks couldn't tell by themselves whether they had the spot. But finally, the chosen monks... committed suicide!
>look forward to a lot of pressure being put on national governements to pass legislation.
I agree, the pressure will rise, but unless every nation on earth accepts a central patent scheme (something coordinated by i.e. WTO), it would be too difficult to acquire a patent on all nations at the same time.
You have the same problem today when you go for a universal patent. You have to apply to the US PTO, to the UK PTO, to the PTO on Geneva, etc. That is excaltly the reason why 10.000 big corporations lobbied for unified European Software Patents.
Saying you have to use different algorithms is a false conclusion, because a combination of those algorithms... can be expressed as a single algorithm when put together.
Yes, you are right, that's another single algorithm, but it is not included in the initial one, and if we include it, Turing's theorem guaranties that this new one does not work on some other halting problem.
Personally, I think our brains are better suited to the 'stopping problem' than serial algorithmic processes due to the vastly parallel nature of our brains.
Switching the hardware on which some problems are to be solved, from serial to parallel, only affects the time it is required to get solved.
Eventually, improved hardware can only solve problems of increased complexity.
(i.e. NP problems reduce to P, when using a non-deterministic Turing machine, a vastly greater machine than a parallel one).
Penrose is saying that we as humans, seem to be able to figure out the stopping problem on algorithms which seem very
complicated, thus there must be something in our thought process which is not algorithmic.
Penrose pointed the difference between complex and complicated, the later having a more vague meaning, unsuitable for mathematical thoughts. But in general, that is Penrose's main line of defence.
Actually it is based on problems that are undecidable by algorithms, and such is the Turing's halting problem.
I appreciate Cantor's maths concerning the halting problem and Penrose's explanation of Godel's theorem (he has also listened and refuted most of the objections presented against his views), so i'm not worried about this./ article's title.
Mathematicians are needed to program computers as much as programmers do!
I've been reading so much of Penrose and here is my 2-cent about his views...
Turing's theorem, in brief (neglecting sound-ness of algorithms), dictates that there is no single algorithm that can "prove" the non-termination of all algorithms.
The above (combined with Godel's theorem) means that, no single program can prove all theorems, which i think is correct.
So, you have to use different algorithms for certain problems. But in order to "devise" those new algorithms, you need to solve the (Turing's) problem of termination on those algorithms (indeed , programers-mathematicians do manage to solve it!)
So, in essence Penrose prooved that, humans are SOMEHOW more capable than computers, since they can (in principal) solve the termination problem of all algorithms.
Now, Penrose also believes that this capability may originate from the access of humans mind in pure truth (or what ever) but those are his beliefs, not his mathamatical proofs. You are not obliged to follow them.
Slashdot Mirror
reposting due to bad format...
------
Yes, the suicide hapend in 8 March 2005. But the officials deny any correlation with the tapping events. http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text?c=112&id=948 56912> (in Greek)
Here is a diary of the whole story:
* orked in the company from 1995 and had specialty in mobile systems security, commits suicide. 10 March 2005: The taps were reported to Greek PM. 11 March 2005: The taps were reported privately to the government and to prosecuteors. 3 January 2006 The whole story goes public. Edit Comment Name sperxios10 [ Log Out ] Subject Commentreposting due to bad format
Yes, the suicide hapend in 8 March 2005. But the officials deny any correlation with the tapping events. http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text?c=112&id=948 56912> (in Greek)
Here is a diary of the whole story:
spring-summer-winter of 2004taps were working. That summer was when the Greek Olympic Games took place.
7 March 2005: Taps were discovered and were immediately deleted as commanded by mother Vodafone, England .
9 March 2005: A technician who worked in the company from 1995 and had specialty in mobile systems security, commits suicide.
10 March 2005: The taps were reported to Greek PM.
11 March 2005: The taps were reported privately to the government and to prosecuteors.
3 January 2006 The whole story goes public. Use the Preview Button! Check those URLs! Post Anonymously Allowed HTML
spring-summer-winter of 2004taps were working. That summer was when the Greek Olympic Games took place.
7 March 2005: Taps were discovered and were immediately deleted as commanded by mother Vodafone, England .
9 March 2005: A technician who worked in the company from 1995 and had specialty in mobile systems security, commits suicide.
10 March 2005: The taps were reported to Greek PM.
11 March 2005: The taps were reported privately to the government and to prosecuteors.
3 January 2006 The whole story goes public.
Yes, the suicide hapend in 8 March 2005. But the officials deny any correlation with the tapping events. http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text?c=112&id=948 56912> (in Greek)
Here is a diary of the whole story:
spring-summer-winter of 2004taps were working. That summer was when the Greek Olympic Games took place.
7 March 2005: Taps discovered and were immediately deleted as command by mother Vodafone, England .one day after the taps were found by Vodafone, and 1 day before reported to government officials.
9 March 2005: The technician who worked in the company from 1995 and had specialty in mobile systems security.
10 March 2005: The taps were reported to Greek PM.
11 March 2005: The taps were reported the government and judicial officials.
3 January 2006 The whole story goes public.
If try to write my own comprehension of the EPR paradox, will you please correct me?
The Experiment:- 2 labs, A and B, far appart, that can measure spin directions on entagled pairs of particicles.
- The measurement of a spin must be made against some axis (in 3D), and the result value is UP or DOWN.
- The labs settle on a number of common axis to make the mesaurements against.
The Results:In the simplest situation, when 1 axis selected, everything works fine. Whatever lab A finds UP, the lab B finds DOWN, and both result sets statistically confront to spin theory (50% UP) as long the particicle creation process doesnt promote one state (ie. spintronics devices).
When 2 axes are selected, if those are perpendicular, everything is also simple, yet, when the 2 labs coincede on the axis, the results are exactly the opposites always. If the axis are not perpendicular, problems arise that are easier to make them profound when we measure against 3 perpendicular axis.
When measuring against 3 perpendicular axis, X, Y and Z, the statistical correlation of the lab results makes the problem shine!
(hidden parameters)
The background of the problem assumes that in order to have a realistic explaination of the experiment, there has to be a "hidden variable" that guides the result particiles give. This parameter is set up during the creation of the particle pair, and remains unchaged. Imagine this parameter as the clock index on a clock. This clock gives answers UP or DOWN, depending on how close is the index on a certain hour. For instance if we measure against the vertical axis (12 to 6), then from 9 to 3, are UP, and from 3 to 9 are DOWN. Now take this into 3D ( a sphere's radious), and suppose that the paired particicles have their index at exactly oposite directions.
If some lab were to measure against any axis then, according to the "hidden parameter" realistic theory, they would get ofcousre 50% UPs, as long as (geometrically speaking) the "hidden radius" is included on the hemisphere having as its zenith the point where the UPward half-axis pops out of the sphere.
Till now, everything is OK.
The Abduction (bell's inequalities):Now imagine lab A measuring a number of particiles against axis X and lab B measuring those particiles against axis Y. The both come up with 50% results. But this means that the "hidden" index is more close to the intersections of X and Y hemispheres (a quarter od the sphere). So, that leaves the other directions, axis Z, with (someone do the bounded propabilities math HERE) 33%. which is INCORRECT.
If it were a third lab C to measure against axis Z, they would also find 50% UPs (but that's not possible, since a particile cannot be measured twice).The Place
There is a circular abbey, inhabited by the most devoted but intelligent monks. Each monk spends its entire life in its own cell. The cells are line up one next to the other, around the atrium. Each cell has one balcony looking over that round atrium from where each monk can inspect the rest. All the monks visit that balcony every day of their life, at the same time in the morning and look at each other. The monks are not allowed to communicate with anyone by any means (words, signs, telepathy or whatever) at any time.
The Voice of God
One day, the monks hear the voice of God whispering them the following words:
"Tomorrow, some of you will be chosen to abandon this vain life. This night, at your sleep, an angel of death will sneak into your cells. This angel will paint a black spot on the forehead of the chosen ones. It is your duty to obey my will, so, those among you currying the spot should within, a finite period of time, end your life and come to join me!.
The Conundrum
The next day, there were indeed monks with spots. Of course since there were no mirrors inside the cells, and the spots weren't relief, the monks couldn't tell by themselves whether they had the spot. But finally, the chosen monks... committed suicide!
How they did it?
Here is a flow-chart of the EU decision-making procedure. http://europa.eu.int/comm/codecision/images/diagra m_en.gif
>look forward to a lot of pressure being put on national governements to pass legislation.
I agree, the pressure will rise, but unless every nation on earth accepts a central patent scheme (something coordinated by i.e. WTO), it would be too difficult to acquire a patent on all nations at the same time.
You have the same problem today when you go for a universal patent. You have to apply to the US PTO, to the UK PTO, to the PTO on Geneva, etc. That is excaltly the reason why 10.000 big corporations lobbied for unified European Software Patents.
Yes, you are right, that's another single algorithm, but it is not included in the initial one, and if we include it, Turing's theorem guaranties that this new one does not work on some other halting problem.
Switching the hardware on which some problems are to be solved, from serial to parallel, only affects the time it is required to get solved. Eventually, improved hardware can only solve problems of increased complexity. (i.e. NP problems reduce to P, when using a non-deterministic Turing machine, a vastly greater machine than a parallel one).
Penrose pointed the difference between complex and complicated, the later having a more vague meaning, unsuitable for mathematical thoughts. But in general, that is Penrose's main line of defence.
Actually it is based on problems that are undecidable by algorithms, and such is the Turing's halting problem.
I appreciate Cantor's maths concerning the halting problem and Penrose's explanation of Godel's theorem (he has also listened and refuted most of the objections presented against his views), so i'm not worried about this ./ article's title.
Mathematicians are needed to program computers as much as programmers do!
I've been reading so much of Penrose and here is my 2-cent about his views...
Turing's theorem, in brief (neglecting sound-ness of algorithms), dictates that there is no single algorithm that can "prove" the non-termination of all algorithms.
The above (combined with Godel's theorem) means that, no single program can prove all theorems , which i think is correct.
So, you have to use different algorithms for certain problems. But in order to "devise" those new algorithms, you need to solve the (Turing's) problem of termination on those algorithms (indeed , programers-mathematicians do manage to solve it!)
So, in essence Penrose prooved that, humans are SOMEHOW more capable than computers, since they can (in principal) solve the termination problem of all algorithms.
Now, Penrose also believes that this capability may originate from the access of humans mind in pure truth (or what ever) but those are his beliefs, not his mathamatical proofs. You are not obliged to follow them.