Slashdot Mirror
Greek, U.S. Officials Tapped For Years
Bruce Schneier posts on a story being reported in the Seattle Intelligencer. Greek and U.S. officials in Greece apparently had their phones tapped for over a year before the 2004 Olympics. From the article: "It was not known who was responsible for the taps, which numbered about 100 and included Greek Prime Minister Costas Caramanlis and his wife, and the ministers of foreign affairs, defense, public order and justice. Most of Greece's top military and police officers were also targeted, as were foreign ministry officials and a U.S. embassy number. Also tapped were some journalists and human rights activists." Schneier gives a bit of technical background on how the tapping was accomplished.
does this surprise anyone? it's the admissability in court that's really the big deal, as well as being able to point to the use of it in ongoing investigations between agencies and oversight.
Did anybody else think that the article was
"Geek U.S. Officials Tapped For Years"?
I dunno...maybe that's just because I was on \. I was thinking that.
-TLAY
That would be the Seattle *Post*-Intelligencer.
Good thing there's no editor or anything...
'Loose' is when your pants are three sizes too big. 'Lose' is when you misuse 'loose'.
I sincerely doubt they were looking for "evidence" for a trial...I also doubt that it was either Greece or the US that did this. The conference calls were probably setup from the provider (Vodaphone's) side, not actually installed on the phone itself.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Greek and U.S. officials in Greece apparently had their phones tapped for over a year before the 2004 Olympics.
Mod me troll like I'm sure you troll mods will, but honestly who the hell cares about this? People are getting tapped constantly in the US and elsewhere, how is this story even remotely interesting to anybody but the person who posted it and the mod who let it through?
Abuse of technology will also exist. This is exactly why it is critical to have laws to moderate such abuses. Judicial oversight is critical. At least we know it must not have been anybody in the "West" who did the tapping... Nobody in the "West" would EVER tap a phone without judicial oversight...
Too bad they didn't have Symantec Genesis yet.
Stop! Dremel time!
Or, are their specific areas of the phone ROM designed for including new and inovative istructions as our fearless leaders (or paying advertisers) require?
- Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
>
>That was clever. How did they get access to the phones to flash the programming? Phones worked fine otherwise. Makes me think someone had access to them at the factory. How else would they be able to get the source. Or would they need it?
One of three ways:
1) A backdoor in phones for snooping; either placed there by design/regulation in concert with the manufacturer, or slipped in by means of some clever hackery. Read "Reflections on Trusting Trust" for just how clever said hackery could be.
2) By means of the normal process whereby automated firmware updates can be delivered to phones. Same sort of way a Tivo or satellite/cable decoder can be "updated" remotely. Except that the "update" only went to the "right" phones. Sort of a variant on #1.
3) Or the old-fashioned way: the same way a virus/worm author gets access to flash your BIOS, or overwrite the material on a hard drive. Sent 'em some HTML that exploited a flaw when rendered. Sent 'em a .JPG with corrupt headers.
A mobile phone is a computer with a writable storage device on it. Computers run code. Computers do what they're designed to do, unless the code they run contains flaws - in which case they do what they're told to do, which may not be what the designer intended, but it's precisely what the cracker intends.
No need to get all so "conspiracy FUD" about the phone companies loading code onto your phone. From the first article it says that "spyware" was loaded onto the central Vodafone server. Which is obviously the best place to attack the system. That way you can use the entire network as your spy infrastructure.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
Judging from that picture, must do strange things with their mobile phones in greece. Maybe they DO need to be monitored...
a phone conversation encryptor?
:D
Actually the idea is as old as the MAD magazine, but with today's technology it could be implemented using public keys and a tiny modem in the headset.
voice -> data -> public-key encrypted data -> voice.
Ta-da!
They didn't have access to the phones. They just altered the programming in the phone exchange.
From the article:
Roussopoulos said the surveillance was carried out through spy software installed in the central system of Vodafone, the mobile telephony provider that served the targets.
SCO employee? Check out the bounty
Did you actually read the article?
It said that they discovered malicous code, presumably somewhere in the cellular phone routing infrastructure, such that calls placed to and from those numbers were intercepted and duplicated to the other phone numbers.
It didn't say anything about the cellphones that these people owned being compromised, they implied that it was the cellular network itself that was compromised!
That's quite a major hack!
Is that like Bush and his term suiciders? I bet Webster's bones are clawing their way to his grave surface now, with sickle in hand ready to unleash the Apocalypse...
This sounds like an organized crime activity to me. Lots of cash flowing around and knowing people's secrets could be just what somebody needed to get a fat contract where they could skim millions. Follow the money and you'll probably find who did this, even if you cant prove it.
I wouldn't be surpriesd if organized crime here in the US hadn't figured out a way to tap into people's phone calls. The telepone companies don't seem to care who listens to our phone calls anymore.
It's time for end to end encryption of all communications. We should get an SSL session from one handset to the other.
set softtabstop=4 shiftwidth=4 expandtab nocp worlddomination
"Hello, Vodaphone Greece. Yeah, I've got a complaint about my service. I think someone's tapping my phone. How can I tell? Every time I talk to my wife I hear heavy breathing that isn't hers, if you know what I mean..."
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
They didn't have to.
They (whoever "they" is) did it all from the telephone company switch.
This is exactly the same mechanism that is used for "proper" (IE: court ordered, law enforcement initiated) taps.
A command is issued in the switch that makes any future calls to or from the "target" phone part of a conference. The 3rd party in the conference would normally be a one-way audio device, that is connected to the police recording equipment.
In this case, it appears that the monitoring party was another cell phone (a pre-paid one, hard to track down who it belongs to).
The "hack" in this case, is really just an un-authorized use of an existing function in the telephone switching platform. It only takes a couple of commands, from a login with appropriate permissions, to do this.
All that stuff in the movies "..what was that, did you hear a click?" is bogus. I've been involved in a lot of testing of these and you can't tell that there's anything out of the ordinary going on.
---
"I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
I'm currently in Greece right now. What they officialy announced was that malicious code triggered a feature of the Ericsson systems Vodafone is using that "duplexes" phone calls. This feature is disabled in Greece by default (or should be anyway) because it is illegal. What is being heavily debated over right now is this: Once Vodafone's administrators found out about the malicious code and the whole illegal setup, they immediantly shut it down, hindering the task of finding the location of the 14 numbers almost impossible. So the question is, if you where in the Vodafone administrator's shoes, would you immediantly shutdown the obviously illegal code, or inform the police before taking action about it?
Well actually the phones themselves were not at any way 'changed'. It was a software change in the Vodafone system that when one of the phones being spied on rang, a conference call was made to one of the 14 phones that were set for spying, and presumably the phone was recorded. That is what makes this case so strange. It was a software change made in the central computer system of Vodafone so only someone from the inside could have done it. And as Greek Vodafone people say, their system gets software updates only through the "mother-company" Vodafone.
If you weren't doing anything wrong, then who cares if some dick listens to you calling your wife pet names. There are obivious security issues to be concerned about with the olympics. They should be able to monitor communications to find any wrongdoing/planning/bribing/etc...
---John Holmes...
"Omykod, neighbor, I just discovered a webcame in MY shower, too! Chekkidout!"
"Wow dude, someone put that same keylogger on my laptop, too! Here it is, right in the process list on my Windows Task Manager!"
"Greek Allies: Thank you for sharing your concerns that we were behind the recent suspicious rerouting of cell phone calls made by your top government officials. As you can see from the attached mobile phone company records, our embassy has been a victim of this heinous eavesdropping as well. We look forward to working with you to find the Real Perpetrators. Sincerely, CIA Field Chief -REDACTED-"
uhhh Im not a goverment official...I still don't trust a land line
maybe they got used to a non-invasive goverment and said blathering blather skytzes
I tip toe like rats on vouge runnways.
I mean... c'mon. Everyone knows that at least one third party was already listening in on those conversations anyways. What's the surprise that someone else figured out a cheaper way to do it? That's just good geeks at work trying to impress the bean counters over at the GAO.
Note to self: two tinfoil hat posts in one sitting... I need to cut back on the Mt. Dews after lunchtime
-- Stu
/. ID under 2,000. I feel old now.
In case you hadn't noticed, no one knows who tapped the phones. But I suppose you're happy to jump to conclusions, or you just feel like cluttering the thread with pointless banter.
These games are played all the time by foreign intelligence services. The most important question here is, if this was not a Greek agency that was behind the wiretapping, why didn't Greek counterintelligence know about this for so long?
Some more interesting details:
t ics_371_03/02/2006_172382
1) The software used was developed by Vodafone's major supplier,
Ericsson. It was installed although Vodafone does not own any licenses
to use it.
http://news.kathimerini.gr/4dcgi/_w_articles_poli
2) Vodafone was notified by a Reseller, Q-Telecoms, about delays in
text message delivery, after which they undertook an ad-hoc analysis.
They found the software, supposedly a remotely activated Trojan (how
the hell could a Trojan get onto an SMS gateway?), by sheer luck, and
then disconnected the computer from the network.
3) The day after (2) the local security manager was discovered dead.
"Suicide", don't you know.
4) Ta Nea (http://digital.tanea.gr/) are claiming it was the CIA,
since the remote proxy used for collecting data appeared to lie in the
vicinity of the American and / or British embassies. How amateurish is
that? Their motive was "Anti-Terrorism" before, during and evidently
also after the 2004 Olympics, which is no doubt why the list of
mobiles being tracked also included those of some prominent, and very
very active (if you follow the news about bombs and firebombs at Greek
banks and ministries, you'll know what I mean) anarchists (not
commies, much more left wing than those boy-scouts).
So long,
They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security - Ben Franklin
I'd guess that they probably got access at some stage during shipping, not at the factory, and swapped outbound phones with ones modded in at their leisure.
;) It was a hollow cavity resonator - it had a large open space in the center with a simple wire in it. The vibration changed the capacitance between the diaphragm and the post plate, but there was no power source. It was not a bug on its own, but when the Soviets would broadcast a strong radio signal, an induced current would induce currents and stimulate a return broadcast at varying frequencies using the wire as an antenna, with frequency determined by the distance between the diaphragm and the post plate (which was determined by the sound impacting the diaphragm). I.e., a simple arrangement of metal became an FM transmitter when you broadcast radio waves at it.
Never underestimate the power of even a simple device to spy. My favorite spy tool of all time was a plaque given to the US Embassy at Moscow by the Soviets in 1946. The US inspected it and determined that there was absolutely no way it could be bugged. It was
Son, a woman is a lot like a refrigerator. They're six feet tall, 300 pounds... they make ice... umm...
A little perspective. Probably just solidifies your thinking (I ain't saying you're wrong).
- Hitler on Line One: There's a Long History of Intercepting Foreign Communications, and Some of It May Have Been Legal
- The Falafel Connection: All Those NSA Wiretaps Are Just a Friendster in Disguise
Lastly, remember how things were in WWII. Letters going out of the country were opened, read, edited, and sometimes destroyed, before they made it to their destination.
That's to protect the targets from being further owned and in hopes of getting the black hats to attempt a fix (Fuck the teanagers; Is there time?).
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I think you meant to send that here ... otherwise its just trolling.
I always liked this story about the xerox machine in the Russian embassy doing more than just copying documents.
The collection of Ericsson cell phone switches that I am currently sitting beside (4 of them) have a lot of features available in them, that my employer hasn't bought, and are not enabled. All it'll take to enable those features is a call to Ericsson with a purchase order.
My wild-assed speculation is that this "hack" was done by an employee, or former employee) who was probably recieving more than one income..
---
"I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
did anyone else think this was about long-running sexual favours between officials in the two governments?
In europe its remote flashing, the phone service provider can remotely flash cell phones on their network. For instance 3 (www.three.com) does so.
You're probably right (I know nothing about telephone switches). That is what most experts are saying here also. Which brings us to the next interesting fact. A day before the whole thing went public, a vodafone employe, the one in charge of the department commited suicide. Vodafone says this has nothing to do with the taps. People who knew the guy, said he was concerned about some issues at his job, but surely he wasn't suicidal. This brings a hollywood like turn in the whole story. I'm guessing organized crime. But the list of people being monitored doesn't reveal this clearly...
Sure, the US does a lot of wiretapping, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was the US. But is it too quick to blame America for this incident?
As someone who has worked for the US government overseas before and studied a the subject of intelligence and international relations before, I can imagine a lot of others would love to (and probably have done) the same thing.
There's the old standbys - Russian intelligence, the Chinese, the Israelis, the British, and others. Of these, I'd say all are reasonably suspect with the possible exception of Israel (I know nothing about Israeli-Greek relations, please enlighten me if you know more on the subject).
There are regional powers that likely have the interest and capabilities to do so as well (Turkey, Cyprus, Albania perhaps).
Don't get me wrong - there's a fairly high probability the US had some hand in this and, like I said earlier, I wouldn't be shocked if the US was behind it. But I'd avoid jumping on that bandwagon too quickly without more information. There are a lot of other intelligence services out there, and they're very active in pursuing information.
They have phones in Greece! Who knew?
That setup used rather primitive (by today's standards) technology, a modified movie camera that recorded the doc images on film -- putting the Xerox tech who swapped the film out at some risk, I imagine.
Consider that today's copiers (and printers) are all digital and that it would be pretty trivial to have them store copies to flash memory for easy retrieval, either by a tech "running diagnostics" or over the wire or even wireless. (Heck, many copiers already have the built-in smarts to disallow copying/printing of currency, what's a little more firmware hidden away in there?)
Now, for the truly paranoid, consider how much of that stuff is made in China these days.
-- Alastair
Come on. You know it was just the Olympic Committee making sure no one violated their trademark on the term "Olympics". Because you know they have to protect the term "Olympics" so that know one else can make money off the word "Olympics". If these officials where caught using the term Olympics they could be in big trouble with the Olympic Committee. Hold on, someone's knocking on my door.....
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
Something doesn't have to be wrong, for the need for secrecy to exist.
:P
Suppose someone has an embarassing (though legal) secret? The person listening could easily blackmail the individual. Or worse yet, what if it's a business conversation, and someone listening could easily profit? You don't think the US listens to other countries business communications, and passes the info to US corporations? Or other countries would spy on the US? Interesting...
I'm convinced you're either a troll, or just incredibly stupid. Since your an American, both could be true. Considering you're a soldier, you shouldn't be metaphorically wiping your ass with the constitution.
Wiretaps!
"Stop poking me. Stop poking me. Stop poking me. Seriously, stop poking me."
It's not like the Executive Branch has just asserted its right to basically do what it pleases in the name of fighting terrorism, is it?
I understand your list of usual suspects, but something on the level of what's described doesn't sound like the Russians. Why would they do it? (And to the same objection about the States -- they've already proven their willingness and ability...)
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
You are being watched, end of story. The only ones who have to worry are terrorists, muslims, jews, liberals, democrats, non-whites, homosexuals, and christians/white people/republicans who don't promote the right-wing or neo-con party line.
I'm not sure, but don't you think it would look kind of bad if they failed to trace the taps in time because they were off fucking teenagers? Do the trace first; the teenagers will still be around later.
That is... really ingenious.
Sorta reminds me of the 'sniffing' devices they hung from spy planes in Vietnam, that were supposed to detect traces of ammonia that would eminate from bomb-making facilities. They ended up bombing a lot of empty forest, with buckets of piss adorning the branches...
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
It's really funny those companies in the /. article earlier this week that blocked skype but allow people to do unencrypted phone calls.
You're right, it was likely a foreign intelligence service. Greece's main geopolitical rival is Turkey, I would suspect it was people working for the Turkish intelligence services.
I sure hope not, the last thing we need more sabre rattling in the Balkans.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
In other news: the White House denies involvement, refuses to release documents related to the case.
*ducks
http://www.cryptophone.de/
there is even a softphone that works with a PC/modem (not winmodems).
There was 1 phone in the US embassy bugged too. 1? Why only 1? Why only the USA Embassy?
I reckon that's either to test it, or so it could be denied later ('well we were bugged too').
If it was Israel, China etc, I bet they'd bug all the western embassies - it would just be an extra line in a configuration file.
Plus I know a few Ericsson switch engineers and they are all US or UK contract staff which rules out China or Russia to me (but maybe that has changed, maybe Ericsson use Russian staff now?) and Turkey Cyprus or Albania, forget it! Where would they get switch engineers from?
I hate to jump to conclusions too, but it looks highly likely, especially given the domestic spying without warrant in the USA, and the UN Kofi Annan spying incident, and the claimed kidnapping of Greek citizens by US & UK agencies.
Koronias issued a statement saying the company removed the spyware immediately after it was located, and informed the competent state authorities.
UPDATE: breaking news: Koronias spent hours looking for competent state authorities and could not find any. therefore, they informed the usual incompetent state authorities.
No
Not yours
Ours...
[My english is better than most other people's Turkish, so please point out mistakes politely. Thank you.]
It depends which single phone line was bugged in the US embassy. If it was the mailroom, that's one thing. If it's the ambassador, deputy chief of mission, or - perhaps - a phone to even the operator it's interesting.
/.
A lot of "walk-ins" occur at embassies by people wanting to give information. Tapping the operator's phone and monitoring who calls would certainly be of use to counter-intelligence investigations.
Also, would only contract staff be able to work on those switches? Could anyone else have done it?
Like I said - the CIA's definitely high on the suspect list. I agree entirely. But it just seems a bit premature to jump to that conclusion.
In any case, it looks like I said something that could possibly be construed as not Anti-American, and was thus modded down. Such is
The AC makes a great point about complacency and how power grabs are sold to the public. Apparently his or her use of sarcasm was the sole reason for being modded down, in which case the "punishment" does not fit the "crime".
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
Yes, the suicide hapend in 8 March 2005. But the officials deny any correlation with the tapping events. http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text?c=112&id=948 56912> (in Greek)
Here is a diary of the whole story:
spring-summer-winter of 2004taps were working. That summer was when the Greek Olympic Games took place.
7 March 2005: Taps discovered and were immediately deleted as command by mother Vodafone, England .one day after the taps were found by Vodafone, and 1 day before reported to government officials.
9 March 2005: The technician who worked in the company from 1995 and had specialty in mobile systems security.
10 March 2005: The taps were reported to Greek PM.
11 March 2005: The taps were reported the government and judicial officials.
3 January 2006 The whole story goes public.
reposting due to bad format...
------
Yes, the suicide hapend in 8 March 2005. But the officials deny any correlation with the tapping events. http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text?c=112&id=948 56912> (in Greek)
Here is a diary of the whole story:
* orked in the company from 1995 and had specialty in mobile systems security, commits suicide. 10 March 2005: The taps were reported to Greek PM. 11 March 2005: The taps were reported privately to the government and to prosecuteors. 3 January 2006 The whole story goes public. Edit Comment Name sperxios10 [ Log Out ] Subject Commentreposting due to bad format
Yes, the suicide hapend in 8 March 2005. But the officials deny any correlation with the tapping events. http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text?c=112&id=948 56912> (in Greek)
Here is a diary of the whole story:
spring-summer-winter of 2004taps were working. That summer was when the Greek Olympic Games took place.
7 March 2005: Taps were discovered and were immediately deleted as commanded by mother Vodafone, England .
9 March 2005: A technician who worked in the company from 1995 and had specialty in mobile systems security, commits suicide.
10 March 2005: The taps were reported to Greek PM.
11 March 2005: The taps were reported privately to the government and to prosecuteors.
3 January 2006 The whole story goes public. Use the Preview Button! Check those URLs! Post Anonymously Allowed HTML
spring-summer-winter of 2004taps were working. That summer was when the Greek Olympic Games took place.
7 March 2005: Taps were discovered and were immediately deleted as commanded by mother Vodafone, England .
9 March 2005: A technician who worked in the company from 1995 and had specialty in mobile systems security, commits suicide.
10 March 2005: The taps were reported to Greek PM.
11 March 2005: The taps were reported privately to the government and to prosecuteors.
3 January 2006 The whole story goes public.
I once heard a story about someone who claimed that they were being listened to. This person says that he heard an odd "clicking" and other bizzare noises when he was talking on his home land line. When he complained to the phone company, the repairman said his phone was wired really weird. He claimed that it was wired through to the company he used to work for. This was in the mid-nineties. I don't really trust the word of this person, but I would like to know if this has any validity.
Now, thanks to the wonder of Slashdot, I can ask multiple people who may know something about this.
1) Is this story believable?
2) Do you hear "clicks" if your phone line is being tapped?
3) Can any private organization arrange to have another wire leading from another phone?
In Greece? The U.S. government taps you again...
I doubt that it was CIA, or Mossad, or KGB; simply because this tap was relatively clumsy. Anything that a technician investigating some other problem can stumble upon and go "what's that? Hmm, let's take a look..." fits into that category.
I suspect organized crime, most likely the Russian Mafia. They don't have the same level of resources as the big spy agencies, but they do have some very clever people working for them. The most likely purpose was to collect information that could be sold to interested third parties.
If you think this is news, it'll shudder you to your core to know that...brace yourself...the UN is also completely bugged. Been that way since the start.
A lot of you zombies think it's some good-hearted organization for finding lost puppies, but part of the Iraq-war intel came from there. And it stretches back all the way....I suppose to the Bay of Pigs or so.
It's not new; it's just new to you...part of how the world has always worked. Don't panic.
--- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov
Now, for the truly paranoid, consider how much of that stuff is designed in US or allies of the US who have a track record of systems like Echelon, have the technical sophistication to design and install such devices and are intent on establishing a global hegemony via any means necessary.
All this China is going to cause the sky to fall is kinda getting old, paranoid and slightly offensive. How did the (peaceful) Japan-threat go? China will get more powerful (along with Europe, India, Russia and Brazil), but their growth rate will level off, just as Japan did.
Sure, it is possible that China is engaged in some massive spying operation (and you shouldn't dismiss it), but on balance of probabilities, this Slashdot comment is far more likely to pass through multiple US-controlled spying devices. Let's keep things in perspective.
You, my friend, no nothing of encryption. I am by no means an expert, but let me educate you a little.
Current synchronous algorithms (e.g. AES, Blowfish) are exceptionally secure. 256-bit AES, for example is rated as secure enough for top secret information, stuff that neds to stay encrypted decades into the future.
As a quick test, i just AES-256 encrypted a 10MB file using my celeron 850. It took about 5 seconds. There is absolutely no reason why any recent pocketpc can't encrypt/decrypt a VOIP call on the fly.
The only problem with synchronous algorithms is key exchange. Both parties need to have the same key, and therefore need to have a way to communicate unintercepted.
This is where asynchronous algorithms come into play. An asynchronous algorithm has two seperate keys for the encrypted data: The public key, and the private key. The public key can only be usd o encrypt data, and the private key can only be used to decrypt it. So: Alice gives Bob her publi key. Bob uses the public key to encrypt his AES-256 key, and ten send this back to Alice. Alice then decrypts this using her private key, and then alice and bob can have a secre VOIP conversation.
Sounds complicated? A similar procedure takes place in a matter of seconds whenever you connect to an SSL website.
So in conclusion, effective encryption technologies are available to the masses. And ave been, for some time. For ayone who really cares, the technology is there to securely encrypt any communications you want.
If anyone wants some links to some apps, let me know.
All you have to do is the following: 1)Replace the word "Greek" by US in the title 2)Realise that the USA president's phone calls are monitored by an external intelligence agency. 3)Rethink about your initial reply.... 4)It does matter. Not for the sake of national security(of any country), but for the sake of everyone who wants some decent level of privacy and believes in the basic principles of democracy. P.S. Does my expression of the above make me a potential terrorist? I guess I'll know in a couple of hours when they come for me...
The political background is that Greece is notoriously corrupt and pro-terror.
A domestic Maoist/Marxist terror group ran for more than twenty five YEARS unchecked, their actions included assassinating US officials at the Athens Embassy, murdering journalists, and others. They ran unchecked because they paid off the Security Services, and had in some cases married into the Security Services.
Greece and Athens Airport has been known for decades as terrorist central. Muslim terrorists are allowed through Athens with no counter-terrorism actions (including notorious terrorists who have masterminded the murder of Navy Diver Robert Stethem and the Achille Lauro hijacking and murder of wheelchair bound US citizen Leon Klinghoffer). Greece's semi-official attitude towards terrorism is extremely lax and they can no more be trusted to stop terrorism than Mexico can illegal alien and drug smuggling across the US border.
Greece is probably the #1 place in Europe to bug, the governments there have ALWAYS been in bed with terrorists.
Fussing about bugging Greece is like fussing about bugging Saudi or Pakistan or Iran. They are foreign countries and if not our active at-war enemies now then certainly overtly hostile to our interests and with a long history of playing footsie with terrorists.
Oh, and any significant economic or political target is bugged here in the US by hostile nations. Better believe the Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Indians, Russians, and French bug the hell out of places of interest. Get real, this is how the world works.
Your sig:
Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people.
Those crazy super religious communists and facists! Killing all those millions of people in the name of Jesus! The mass murders of the 20th century, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot etc etc all were religious zealots!
Oh... wait a second. Erhh...
It is common knowledge in Greece that the Americans did it (probably CIA). Even from by just looking the list of the people who were tapped (which was given to the public) it is obvious. Also the government revealed the GSM cells that were used by the eavesdroppers and guess what, at the center of the cells is the American Embassy.
Basically the goverment said something like "hey, we know who you are but we don't want to hurt our relations to the US".
And yes it is a big deal. Unlike the US, in Greece (and other countries) if somebody was tapping you without you being accused of a specific crime then it makes headlines.
I'd think a foreign government would have to be bloody daft to accept any sort of tech built in the US where any sensitive communication is going to take place. I don't think so. Vodafone is headquartered in Newbury, UK. So, Mr. Bond, don't bother to dissemble. And BTW, what WERE you doing with those communications? I thought of handicapping a book on the selection process.
------ The only greater hazard to your liberty than n politicians is n+1 politicians.
Anarchism is absence of government, not absence of money. Well, absence of fiat money comes with absence of government, but money fared perfectly well before governments monopolised it.
Bingo, hitler was a devout christian, where do you think he got the idea for his swastica from?
just have a look on the list of names of the persons that were spied upon, it is publicly available on the mainstream media.
I am surprised that this story made headlines. In the age of electronic and wireless communications one should assume that all conservations are monitored, without exception (the only limiting factor being the cost, which is not that high nowadays). Just read some books of former spies and you can quickly understand that no small country is safe from spying. Today, saying that a politician's phone was tapped is like saying that Windoze is full of bugs. Expected news is no real news, and I cannot believe all the hype appearing on Greek media. It seems to me like Greeks are not accustomed with modern surveillance.
It is worth noting that only one of the three cellular network operators in Greece was providing services to the people whose phones were tapped, and that a day before the company notified the prime minister, one of the managers of that company was found burned in his house (reported as a suicide). The press also says that the company completely destroyed the surveillance software detected in its systems.
Since i'm living there, I'll try to give some info as packed as possible...
104 phones of 46 people were targeted for 10-11 months approximately (April 2004 - early March 2005)
the list of these people's name was publiced on Thursday (2nd February 2006)..
It includes: the prime minister, minister of defence, major of athens, high officials, an attorney, lawyers of political prisoners, human rights activists, well-known anarchists and radical leftists, one al jazeera journalist, arab businessmen and journalists that covered the war on Iraq.
On 7th March 2005, a high Vodafone executive discovers the suspected software running on certain phone-lines... On 8th March the same man shuts down the suspected software. On 9th March the vice-president of the IT department of Vodafone is found hanged in his house.. It was considered a suicide.. Next day, on 10th March 2005 Vodafone informs the greek government..
On Thursday 2nd February 2006, a newspaper reveals the whole thing.. Some hours later, greek governement confirms what the newspaper writes.. Greek minister of public security gives a 3-hour press conference.. During that conference, he reveals that those who used the suspected software were in an area surrounded by 4 specific antennas in the center of athens.. That area covers around 1 square kilometre.. There are few houses, some hospitals, some schools in that area, but most importantly the US embassy as well as the British embassy..
The Greek public here is certain that the US secret services are the guilty..
That is a tight summary of what has been revealed here, hope it enlightened you in some way
www.lemonodor.com A mostly Lisp weblog
Haven't you seen people do something like the following:
Give you a bunch of cards saying "pick a card any card, but just one...".
It doesn't matter which card you pick, your choice already has been predetermined.
This is especially true in the US, since the top US politicians need lot of money to get anywhere in politics (unlike in some other countries where this is regulated, and so it is a bit harder).
The various companies (or rich) will sponsor (pick) the politicians from _any_ of the parties, who they think have a chance AND will support their goals. Politicians who don't support their goals don't get money.
Of course there are still differences between the parties, but over time, the companies will tend to get what they want - those who support them rise to the top, and those who don't stay stuck at the bottom.
According to opensecrets.org,for the 2004 election, Bush received and spent USD300+ million, and so did Kerry.
The other four presidential candidates in the running (excludes those who dropped out) received and spent less than USD 8 million.
The really rich usually aren't that stupid, they know a bit about "investing".
Of course I could be wrong, and the past US governments have not consistently favoured the rich and powerful...
Even if it hasn't yet, given the design/architecture of the US election process and system, I think you'd eventually get a plutocracy.
Suicide... complete destruction of the software used.
Move along, nothing to see here...
Yeah right...
check out this one:
= 92
Communique of Antiauthoritarian Movement about the surveillance scandal
Communique of Antiauthoritarian Movement about the surveillance of telephones of its members: Grigoris Tsilimantos, Argiris Mouratidis, Attila Ihtiar and Marina Meintani (who used to be a member of the antiauthoritarian newspaper "Babylonia")
The recent events, about the "discovery" of a surveillance network which was installed in the software of the mobile-phone company Vodafone, are coming to confirm with the most loud way that the "Big Brother" consists a necessary condition and not an error of the global established regime.
This necessary condition has neither rules nor borders in order to impose a new model of human being, the model of the totally controlled and absolutely transparent individual to those who process the power and the authority mechanisms, whose spearhead is the USA. First targets are, and they are going to be in the future as well, all of them who belong from this side, the side of the Resistance.
No one has any illusions about the fact that this entire surveillance network was not installed only for spying on 100 phones. For a series of decades the N.S.A. is the global ear and the global eye (whose local shop is the OSAC which is stationed in the USA Embassy in Athens), the application of the Echelon program, the Shegen Agreement, the terrolaws and the recent EU agreement for the constant and permanent surveillance of all the communications means of millions of citizens, all these consist the greedy beast of the authority control.
But the real sense of this case is that they must receive a response by the community of all who are part of the social struggles, a response by the people who don't compromise and refuse to sell out their existence and dignity to the mechanisms of authority, to the bosses and to the state. In this category belong the three imprisoned social fighters Aspiotis, Karasarinis and Kalaitzidis.
As about the surveillance of the prime minister Karamanlis and his council of governmental ministers by the same network who was spying on our comrades, we have to declare only this: Cronus is still eating his children!
DIGNITY - SOLIDARITY- RESISTANCE
Greece, 03/02/2006
Antiauthoritarian Movement
[ Cronus, a figure of greek mythology whose name may derive from the verb kreno, which means 'to exercise sway', 'to reign over', 'to govern', the son of Uranus and Gaia and the youngest of the twelve Titans. His wife was also one of the Titans, since he married his sister Rhea. Their offspring were Demeter, Hestia, Hera, Hades, Poseidon and Zeus. Once Cronus had castrated Uranus, he and his wife Rhea took over the throne of dominance over all beings. But not all was well for Cronus, as he believed that his fate was to be overthrown by one of his own children. To prevent this from happening he began to swallow his newborn, taking them at birth then swallowing them whole, in order nobody to be able to threat his authority. ]
http://www.resistance2003.gr/en/news/story.php?id