And about liberalism being a founding principal.. sure.. but then they were also conservitive in many ways as well.
No, they absolutely were not in any way. This country was the most radical experiment in history to that point. Compared to today's society, some of some of their attitudes might be shoehornable into that mold, but for the most part what they tried very hard to do was to eliminate what today is called "conservatism". That's pretty much the entire point of the enlightenment.
seriously.. ok so the right doesn't hold values like this? or are you just another bush = hitler troll.
No, the right does not hold values like this. Where is the confusion here?!? Their stated "value" is that Liberalism is the great evil that is destroying the moral fabric of society. The simple fact is that gung ho capitalism is the driving force behind the liberalisation of society, and that is what they continue to vote for. Shoving religion into the state and the desire to amend the constitution for the first time in history to specifically discriminate against a particular group are their primary goals. Those are absolutely an attempt to use the power of the state against the individual.
As far as Bush==Hitler, no, he doesn't want to kill the Jews. Hitler was an asshat for many more reasons than that. In fact, the holocaust had absolutely nothing to do with the US entering the war.
Do a little research. Learn what fascism is. Look at America today. The fascists in America who wholeheartedly supported Hitler prior to (and often during see Prescott Bush for a shining example of this kind of traitor) the war (that's the "right" by the way) launched a massive campaign to utterly destroy any remnants of the left.
That is where we are today. Your failure to recognise this simple blatantly obvious fact (to anybody who actually knows what fascism is) demonstrates either a fundamental lack of understanding of the subject or a fundamental dishonesty.
And the widely held moral standard part is complete bullshit.
In fact, it's not. What he says and what he does are different. Look at the results, not the lies used to justify it.
replace blowjob with whatever, he still tried to get people to lie about it. Bush hasn't been found to do that
Bush has, in fact, been shown to have done that repeatedly on a massive scale. The fact that the media and the total hypocrites who claim to support moral values have not responded with outrage at it doesn't change the simple fact that his administration has been proven to have doctored evidence, lied, manipulated, and attempted to force scientists to lie about results.
The official charge against Clinton was the lie. The reality is the blowjob itself is what was sold to the extremist base as justification for it.
again you DISAGREE with going to IRAQ fine.
Where did I say that? I disagree with the President using a massive calculated disinformation campaign to sell a pre planned war to the American people. Yes, there really is a difference between those two things.
and please point out where bush has fucked the constitution in the ass..
The rape of the FOIA, the patriot act, support for the gay hatred amendment, torture, illegal wiretaps on American citizens.
The list goes on and on. Are you seriously that out of touch with reality that you didn't know about all of those?
i really don't care that much that clinton tried to get people to lie about that blowjob.. but i care that someone who will try to convince other to lie about something so simple would do far worse for something more important.
Oh, the utter hypocricy. OMFGWTFBBQ!!! He lied about a blowjob oh what else will such an evil man do.
Oh, but lying to start a war that had been planned for years is ok, and no need to worry about anytihng worse out of that.
Your thinking is fundamentally diseased if you are capable of such
I don't think that you need to prove that every single post of a given sort is modded down to demonstrate a bias or that there's some degree of silencing.
Certainly. That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic though. Bias wasn't even mentioned by me. "some degree" of anything wasn't mentioned by the OP. He stated that those views were *silenced". Not that there was a bias, not that there was some degree of anything.
The simple fact that both of us and probably many others read the original post demonstrates absolutely beyond any shadow of a doubt that his statement was false. To assert that he didn't know it was false would be to insult his intelligence far more than I did.
I think even the chairman of the democratic party could read through Slashdot and see that it slants to the left. It's really pretty clear.
In fact it isn't. There is a bias against far extremist right wing. That isn't left, it's basic sanity. We fought WW2 against that exact ideology. There is no left in America. It was destroyed by the same Americans who were most supportive of the Axis.
"Microsoft supporters are silenced on Slashdot". This would still be an opinion.
The statement that you have in quotes is a *statement*. It has a truth value. "I think that..." followed by it would make it an opinion. I'll admit this bit is a bit pedantic, but it's true nonetheless.
Maybe, but do you seriously think there aren't fewer, as you say, "batshit insane" fundies today than during, say, the Salem witch trials?
That was one small area of the country. While there were other similar areas, they were not the majority of the population. Additionally, the simple difference in population makes a huge difference. There are almost certainly more crazy fundies today then there were people in America at that time.
Additionally, batshit insane fundamentalism is the largest (group of) religions in America.
So, I think I covered every possible interpretation and demonstrated them all false.
I think you need a vacation there darby. Probably.
You are one pissed off guy, with such a charmin personality that just makes me want to sing praises about your ability to debate and convince.
Sorry, but republicans have passed well beyond any possibilitty of being dealt with in a reasonable manner. They declared all out war on anything that doesn't toe their line 100% even when that line is made up of nothing but lies, and blind hatred. They have declared war on the ideals that made this country.
Pretending that that isn't the case does no good at all.
Always find the political compass to be much more useful, separating the left and right into an economic and a social scale, so that hitler and stalin can occupy the same position on the political scale, but are fairly far apart economically.
If you want to argue about *silencing*, moding a post down makes it go below most people's threshold
Sure, now prove that without one single exception every single post of a given sort is modded down. Individuals expressing certain opinions get "silenced" at certain times, but the same opinions *are* regularly modded up.
If I say that I think Microsoft supporters are silenced on Slashdot, you might disagree with me, but that doesn't mean I'm lying.
Expressing an opinion as you did there is vastly different than stating it as an absolute fact. Stating what you know to be an opinion as a fact *is* lying.
Yes you did. You called the guy a moron because he thought there was one sided moderation on politics.
No, I didn't because that is *not* what he said. I've never denied that more posts are modded one way or the other. I denied that they were *silenced*.
Here, look later in this same post you even quote that exact thing and then pretend that it is something else entirely:
He said that right wing whackos were *silenced*. That is a lie, it is idiotic, and the fact that you come to back it up makes you look like an idiot. Nice job.
See that? It's the same thing I keep saying.
You keep pretending that I said some totally different thing.
Here, look:
Come on man, just read the politics section and count how many pro-republican posts get modded up. It's pretty rare. pro-democratic posts tend to be upgraded more often.
In the first place, it isn't rare. It happens in every related article. Not as often, but the simple fact that their views are almost entirely full of shit given that they are almost all based on backing up blatant lies. All points of view are not equal.
None of that has anything to do with the simple basic fact that no views are *silenced*.
I despise both the right AND the left, because both sides are dominated by extremists enamored of using government power to force everyone else to think, and believe, and behave, in whatever fashion they've defined as The One True And Right Way(TM). If you identify yourself with either group of asshats you're just another fucking fascist looking to prove that you have a bigger dick than your neighbor, and that makes you a traitor to everything this country (once) stood for.
I agree completely. I despise both groups. The Republicans are currently in an overpowering position and abusing that power to entirely new extremes. Thus they deserve far more contempt until such time as they get out of power and then it'll be the Democrats turn to fuck everything up again.
You're so deluded into thinking you're the fucking champion of liberty you believe that you're perfectly justified with 'shooting in the face' anyone who doesn't hold your point of view.
Had you actually read my post, then you would have seen that I have no problems whatsoever with different points of view.
It's direct force agianst me which is the issue at hand. Support for Bush *is* support for the destruction of civil liberties. You can't have it both ways.
But I'll be damned if I let some ranting lunatic anti-freedom fucker like you into office, since you're so obviously predisposed to using government force to shut down the opinions (or snuff the lives) of anyone who doesn't think the way you do.
Point me to where I suggested using government force against anybody.. Oh right, you can't because I didn't. When a group of people have put forward as their goal, the complete destruction of my way of life as the neo cons have absolutely done, then that right there is an initiation of force against me. Defending my liberty is my right. I'm sorry that you consider an individual talking about defending his own liberty with no mention of government involvement to be such a horrible thing. You honestly think that you're a libertarian? Laughable.
You're just as bad as the Bushies your criticize - perhaps worse.
Laughable again. I suppose you just bend over and take it when people try to fuck you. Of course, anybody who doesn't is even worse than the ones fucking them. Real great attitude there, sparky.
In order for me to understand your point, let's just assume all this is true.
No need to assume. Do some research and you can actually know something.
Is it that you don't like the USA? Because that's a valid point
Wow, a delusional asshat, what a surprise. I love what America once stood for. A shining beacon of freedom. I hate what it has become. The opposite. I utterly despise cowards who think supporting an administration, a political party, or blatant lies has anything to do with patriotism.
How would you solve the "a long time ago, a US ally did something nasty" problem? Should we never ally with anyone?
Wow, you're pretty good at twisting points, manipulation, spin and various other seedy practices generally frowned upon by polite society.
The issue isn't an ally doing something bad as you well know since you had to work pretty hard to strip that nonsense out of what I said. It's us aiding and supporting those bad things.
Further, when we then use that as an excuse to murder a bunch of people in order to install a newer more compliant ally without dealing with the reality of our own complicity in mass murder, then that is what is known as hypocrisy.
It's not like it's a big secret or anything. The whole world knows all about it. So when we undertake fundamentally dishonest actions with malice aforethought, our credibility is undermined. A few people profit in theshort term, but the rest of us pay it back in spades in the longterm.
How can the US conduct foreign policy to produce an outcome that everyone will be 100% eternally happy with? (And it's getting late, so try to keep your response shorter than one page. Thx)
Can't. That's a stupid idea. What we can do is make an attempt to stand up for what we claim our values are. To do that, we would have to start out with quite a few heads rolling to even make it look like an honest first step.
If we put him Saddam in power, don't we have a duty and responsibility to remove him from power? To correct our mistake, if you will?
It depends, really. Did we step up, admit our complicity and express a real desire to change? No. We have the same person who provided the gas in charge of the fucking army. Our reasoning is based on our great morals and similar crap that is proven crap by the very fact of who is stating it. Put Rumsfeld in the electric chair. Until that happens your scenario is utterly laughable nonsense.
People constantly criticize the US for supporting bad, violent, etc, leaders. Well, as soon as we remove one, that we did at one time support, why are people still upset at the US? Shouldn't you people congratulate us for finally recognizing at least ONE of our past mistakes and taking steps to correct it?
So let me get this straight. We use our complicit crimes against humanity as an excuse to eliminate a no longer oh so compliant partner in the name of our oh so much better sense of morality and suddenly we're golden?!? WTF dude.
If we actually *recognized* the mistake and actually worked to correct it, you might have a point however overshadowed by the various torture academies we set up in central america, the various democratically elected leader we murdered to install brutal right wing mass murderers and on and on and on.
The fact is we did nothing of the sort, so you have no point whatsoever. We kept up the same exact game where we're all that is good and Saddam was alll that is bad even though he gassed the Kurds with our blessing and our fucking gas.
If you honestly believe that, no words in all the world will sway you.
Granted, it is one of the few things that They have directly stated That I actually do believe. Seriously, how fucking pathetic are you to support something without even researching who and what it is that you are supporting?!?
There doesn't seem to be a cure for Bush Derangement Syndrome.
Hell, put a shotgun in your mouth and pull the trigger and you'll get over it:-)
I hope you get your tinfoil hats at a discount. Tell me, was the Mossad and the CIA behind 9/11?
Ahhh yes, one of the earliest strategies of the right wing hate machine. When the complete idiocy of your point is demonstrated, *pretend* that they actually said something completely different. w00t! You win the daily Rush Limbaugh's ball licking award. Good show old chum!
Guys like this are living proof that Slashdot has become nothing but a DailyKos.com with a tech focus...
Guys like you are proof that you can convince idiots to actively campaign against their own interests.
It's not common to see a topic modded up that has already been modded down or vice-versa based on ideology.
I'm not sure how you would judge the ideology of a given moderation, but mod wars happen all the time.
He's mad at you for what you said, which to me suggests there must be some truth to it.
That's possible in this context, but be wary of taking that on as a general rule. For example, if you were called a bug fucker or somesuch and got mad, that would not mean you actually fucked bugs;-)
How do you define this administration as cowardly?
It is composed primarily of people who dodged the draft. Not by standing up for a principle, but by using their influence to send others in their place so they weren't at risk. Risk either through actually going to war and risk through hurting their later ambitions through standing up for an unpopular viewpoint.
They have flown in the face of everything they have been attacked with and kept on stepping.
Given that they choose how to interact with the media, they have their own propaganda wing of the mainstream media who regularly contradict themselves in order to *always* support the administration, and that they control all three branches of the government, I'm wondering how much courage it takes the administration of TPOTUSA to deal with mr ranting on/. Now, if they actually had the courage to stand up for their beliefs, then you would have a point. They don't though. That's why they had to hide behind a constant stream of lies to promote their aganda. Is a rabidly anti-gay administration using gay prostitutes to lob softballs in the press really your idea of courage?!?
They have repeatedly stood up for American interests, defiant of international or foreign interests.
That is a pretty far out statement. They have consistently stood up for the agenda they wanted to push going as far as to manufacture evidence and rape the constitution.
Explain to me exactly how pushing an agenda dedicated to the destruction of the founding principles of this nation (read up on what the neo cons stand for) which a huge percentage of the population (huge as in a lot as opposed to most) not only disagrees with but despises is promoting American interests. Hell, most of the ones who support him do so because they believe the lies.
I'm an American, and he sure as hell isn't standing up for my interests. He's viciously attacking them at every opportunity.
You say they have been proven wrong over and over again, but you fail to come to grip with any view of opposition labeling them as liars, traitors, and wholly unbelievable...
Dude, I've been on to these sick fuckers since Reagan. You know...torture schools in Central America, overthrows of democratically elected leaders to install right wing terrorists who murdered masses of their own people. CIA involvement in the cocaine trade to support terrorists.
JFC! 9/11 was Reagan's legacy coming home to roost. The solution?!? Let the same fuckers keep going.
Sorry, but the "opposition" has no bearing on the facts. Do you seriously think I'm a fucking Democrat? do you seriously think the Democrats are the "opposition". Hell, that's more deluded than thinking the Democrats are "good guys".
so how can they be proven right, from your pov?
They can't, because they have demonstrated beyond the shadow of any reasonable doubt that integrity is anethema to them. Name one goddamned thing they have done that has increased the ability of the public to make a reasonable assessment of what they are doing. They have at *every* opportunity worked to further their ability to hide their agenda from the populace. That alone is treason of the worst kind.
To your credit, due to your group think and once again, the exact reasons mentioned by the author, you've proven that Iraq WMDs don't exist, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.
I would hardly have called him a moron because he thinks that there is unfair moderation on this site.
I don't even need the "hardly" I said nothing of the sort, nor do I believe anything like that.
I agree with him on that point and I think most people who comment regularly have experienced unfair moderation.
Your statement is inherently contradictory. If "most" people have experienced it then it isn't one sided. Do you get it now?!? I may be an asshole, but your reading comprehension sucks more ass than Michael Bolton at an ass sucking contest.
He said that right wing whackos were *silenced* That is a lie, it is idiotic, and the fact that you come to back it up makes you look like an idiot. Nice job.
In other words, if you believe as you suggest that Slashdot is tolerant of all well-expressed views, you may be suffering from craniorectal inversion.
Point me to where I claimed that and you get a cookie./. isn't *tolerant* of one goddamned thing. It's equal opportunity hatred for anything you might say.
I support the Administration. I think Mr. Bush is doing a fine job. No, I'm not joking.
Then, quite honestly, I hope to have the opportunity to shoot you right in your treasonous cowardly face.
Not in any way because I don't support your right to hold and express your opinion. But because you are actively working toward the destruction of my goddamned fucking birthright that my ancestors killed sick mother fuckers like you to defend.
If you are truly that sickening of an individual that you despise the idea that human beings have the right to choose their own destinies, then your death could only be a boon to humankind.
If you think that you don't believe that and you still support the neocon agenda, then you are too stupid to have even researched what you are supporting.
Whether you are a moron or a sociopath isn't the issue anymore. You have actively declared war on liberty and I'm on the other side bitch. Please do the world a favor and kill your evil fucking fascist self.
That is not an ad hominem by the way. You freely stated your support for fascism. I'll bet that you're either too stupid to know it or too cowardly to admit it.
lol ok you know you saying that is like fox saying they're fair and balanced. it's absolutly wrong.
Nope, it's not. There is a fundamental moral difference between those who promote freedom and those who try to stamp it out. I'm a promoter of freedom, but I will stamp on asshats who actively try to destroy it.
/. IS UNQUESTIONABLY biased to the left part of that is because it hides stuff that would be considered right wing.
First, it is not biased to the left. That is idiocy of the highest caliber. A bias against Bush isn't a fucking bias. It's basic common sense and human decency. To be biased to the left as an American site, America would actually have to have a left. Nice try, try actually learning *something* about politics rather thanspouting the idiotic Fox news bullshit you originally brought up.
God damn it. I'm a fucking Liberal in the classical sense. That means I have recognized the Left and the Right are both sicko fuckwads.
Here's a lesson:
Liberalism is the founding principle of this country. It's so simple it can be summed up in one sentence: "We hold these truths to be self evident: That all men are created equal."
The left believes in this principle. They also believe that the force of the state should be used against people to enforce this ideal. See USSR, Cambodia, etc. etc. etc. for examples of how fucking retarded this idea is.
The right *disagrees* with this principle. Further, they believe that the power of the state should be used against people to prevent this. See The Axis, Franco, Bush, etc. etc. etc. to see how fucking retarded this idea is.
So, please could everybody STFU about leftists in America. They don't exist in *any* meaningful context. They were stamped out by the same asshats who were gung ho Hitler supporters before WW2. Not for any decent reasons. JFCOAPS (on a pogo stick) the primary hatreds of the Neo cons are the only fucking things the left got right while it existed here.
no this is the exact same question. you may not LIKE bush, but a lot of people do, or aggree with enough of what he's said/done to have voted him into office twice now.
I meant traditional American values rather than the destruction of them which is what is being sold to idiots who think the "moral destruction" of the country is being driven primarily by people who *merely don't fucking hate gay people*, rather than pulling their heads out of their asses long enough to see the simple fact that gung ho all out capitalism (which they keep supporting) is inherently socialy liberalising. After all, them faggots got money too. He was voted into office the second time by exactly those people. Read the exit interviews. The first time he was appointed by an act of treason by the SC. That's after fucking the election. Pay attention.
sorry try and convince me that bush hasn't made the right choices, some of them i'd agree some of them i wouldn't. on/. EVERYTHING he does is wrong pretty much.
Has he done anything right? It's theoretically possible. The inescapable fact is that pretty much everything he has done *is* wrong by any sort of widely held moral standard.
i was talking about the original poster you responded too..
I responded to your statement.
umm NO. he was NOT impeached about a fucking blowjob, he was impeached about LYING and trying to get others to LIE about said blowjob. huge difference. whether or not you aggree with impeaching him over that is another story.
Ummm, yes. They stole millions from this country for a witch hunt. They tried to get him on.. what, like 5 different things?!? Nothing stuck until they found a fat bitch who liked giving her soiled dresses to her mom?!? Yeah. So he lied about it. That sucks, it's dishonest and asshattery of the highest degree.
He didn't make up a bunch of fucking lies in order to pursue some ivory tower intellectual strategy to blow up a bu
Yeah.. I want to booby trap the message so that if anyone tries to "clone" the message for stealth decryption... *poof* instant feather cloud:-D
Damn, Dude, as if being stuck fucking pigeons wasn't punishment enough. You're a mean vindictive person. I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter;-)
There should be organzed a new party out there knockinig on doors from coast to coast, unreliant upon (and strategically aware of the absence of) media coverage.
OK, your "strategically aware of" point really intrigues me. Mostly because it points out a fundamental failing of myself.
*How* do you pull that end around?
If you get a million flyers out on one day, that night *every* major media network will be reporting on the "extremists" pushing "anti-American" agendas. Oh, and by the way, they are all atheists and want to extend legal abortions to the 23rd trimester. Just look at the Seattle anti WTO protests. Sure, there were a bunch of asshats wearing Nikes torching the Nike store or whatever TF it was. But there are actual arguments, the vast majority completely in line with real Christian values, but they've never been aired.
Seriously, I'm asking if you have any actual strategies for that.
Oh, and if my post is missing a few 'i's, it's because my keyboard wants me to be a masochist and hit it harder than anything else.
Well, there's two schools of thought on that I know. 1. If you really want to hurt a masochist, don't beat them. 2. Your keyboard has helped you out a lot over the years, so go ahead. It might break, but it sounds like it's itching for a replacement at some point anyhow;-)
Sorry to be impolite, but I call bullshit! I defy you to find one single person who read 1984 and empathized with O'Brien rather than Smith.
Well, I don't think "bullshit" quite works, but a quick glance at my posting history would probably absolve you of any worries about politeness;-)
I'd say that Stalin would have empathised with Big Brother. All his high ups would have empathised with O'Brien.
Repeat the above for Mao, Pol Pot, Franco, GW Bush, various muslim whackos, and every other person who actively worked to suppress freedom.
Look, I'm not saying there's anything decent in that attitude. What I am saying is that there are many people (the majority even?) who would rather be the booter than the bootee.
There are many people (oh please let it be the minority) that look at that situation and see it as opportunity.
As far as showing you the actual peole who read the book, well that's tougher. Are you saying absolutely that none of the above's hangers on read it? Are you further saying that they felt for poor Winston but fucked up so badly that they accidentally ended up supporting their local version of Ingsoc?
really? mostly what he expressed is opinion.. you may very well disagree.. but that certainly doens't make him a moron
Nope, factually wrong. He stated that "the minority" i.e. right wing extremists have been silenced. That is entirely false. It was a lie.
umm bullshit
Ummm Trueshit. Show me one single point of view no matter how whacked out and extreme that has never been modded up.
let's see how many pro-bush comments are modded up vs how many anti-bush comments are modded up.
Different question. It's also a different question as to how many Bush policies show utter contempt for what this country stands for and how many are even in the same ballpark. How much do you want to bet that the figures come out similar?
most of it was baseless bush bashing,
At this point in time you are actually trying to call it baseless?!? What color is the air on your planet. If anything it's been proven by Bush and Co that everybody underestimated their hated of freedom and integrity.
good lord did he rape your mother or something? calm down.
No, but he has:
Raped the FOIA. Blatantly lied in an effort to push an Iraq war agenda. Consistently promoted the most incompetent (or evil if you believe in that) people. Done everything in his power to destroy the idea that America actually stands for something decent which I held as a very high personal value. Actively promoted torture. Pissed all over the constitution.
So, no , he didn't rape my mother. He just raped pretty much everything *else* I stand for.
I mean guess what, tons of people said very simliar things about clinton when he was in office! i know you may not have seen it, but it was there in plenty of right leaning places, as opposed to/. which is a left leaning place.
Yes, they did. It was the same people orchestrating that fiasco (not that Clinton was great or anything). In fact they actually impeached him over a blowjob when they spent millions of our dollars on a fucking witch hunt and could not find another fucking thing to get him on.
Bush could be impeached on several charges that actually matter.
WTF is your point with this one?!? The media attacked Clinton like a pack of wolves and so when they don't do it to Bush and it takes actual citizens to step up and say holy fucking shit torture camps over a made up war against {Eur|East}Asia?!?!
Dude, seriously, orders of magnitude, night and day. Any Dem, any Rep who makes it to Washington is an asshat working against the American People. That's obvious. The fact that the treason of this administration goes above and beyond is equally as obvious.
lol ok where did he say anything about 24 hour propaganda? i dunno maybe i missed it
He didn't say it. Look at your title bar. It's the topic. Apparently he took it as an invitation to spread more.
Not to say that the innocent should suffer but I didn't see the Islamic community doing anything to stop Saddam's genocide.
But you did see the US supporting it and even supplying the gas. Oh holy shit it was Rumsfeld who delivered it we're back on topic.
Well, I guess if I'm going to be accused of firebombing I guess I really can accuse the entire Muslim community of 9/11. What's the old saying? What's good for the goose is good for the gander?
If you think violence is justified because of the invasion of Iraq I guess I can see the invasion of Iraq as justified by 9/11.
The difference is (assuming that you're an American), that your country aided the genocide, and then most of the same people are in the current administration condemning it and using it as an excuse for this assinine invasion. So, as Americans, *we* are (partially) responsible for the genocide *and* we are responsible for blowing the shit out of lots of innocents supposedly to take out the whacko *we put in power*.
Iraq and Afghanistan were different countries. Of course, we also were responsible for the Taliban as well once we were done with the place as an arena for our cold war antics. Afghanistan was largely responsible for 9/11, Iraq had nothing to do with it.
Were you actually trying to make a point out of all that?
Slashdot Mirror
And about liberalism being a founding principal.. sure.. but then they were also conservitive in many ways as well.
No, they absolutely were not in any way.
This country was the most radical experiment in history to that point.
Compared to today's society, some of some of their attitudes might be shoehornable into that mold, but for the most part what they tried very hard to do was to eliminate what today is called "conservatism". That's pretty much the entire point of the enlightenment.
seriously.. ok so the right doesn't hold values like this? or are you just another bush = hitler troll.
No, the right does not hold values like this.
Where is the confusion here?!? Their stated "value" is that Liberalism is the great evil that is destroying the moral fabric of society. The simple fact is that gung ho capitalism is the driving force behind the liberalisation of society, and that is what they continue to vote for.
Shoving religion into the state and the desire to amend the constitution for the first time in history to specifically discriminate against a particular group are their primary goals.
Those are absolutely an attempt to use the power of the state against the individual.
As far as Bush==Hitler, no, he doesn't want to kill the Jews.
Hitler was an asshat for many more reasons than that. In fact, the holocaust had absolutely nothing to do with the US entering the war.
Do a little research. Learn what fascism is.
Look at America today. The fascists in America who wholeheartedly supported Hitler prior to (and often during see Prescott Bush for a shining example of this kind of traitor) the war (that's the "right" by the way) launched a massive campaign to utterly destroy any remnants of the left.
That is where we are today. Your failure to recognise this simple blatantly obvious fact (to anybody who actually knows what fascism is) demonstrates either a fundamental lack of understanding of the subject or a fundamental dishonesty.
And the widely held moral standard part is complete bullshit.
In fact, it's not.
What he says and what he does are different. Look at the results, not the lies used to justify it.
replace blowjob with whatever, he still tried to get people to lie about it. Bush hasn't been found to do that
Bush has, in fact, been shown to have done that repeatedly on a massive scale. The fact that the media and the total hypocrites who claim to support moral values have not responded with outrage at it doesn't change the simple fact that his administration has been proven to have doctored evidence, lied, manipulated, and attempted to force scientists to lie about results.
The official charge against Clinton was the lie. The reality is the blowjob itself is what was sold to the extremist base as justification for it.
again you DISAGREE with going to IRAQ fine.
Where did I say that?
I disagree with the President using a massive calculated disinformation campaign to sell a pre planned war to the American people.
Yes, there really is a difference between those two things.
and please point out where bush has fucked the constitution in the ass..
The rape of the FOIA, the patriot act, support for the gay hatred amendment, torture, illegal wiretaps on American citizens.
The list goes on and on.
Are you seriously that out of touch with reality that you didn't know about all of those?
i really don't care that much that clinton tried to get people to lie about that blowjob.. but i care that someone who will try to convince other to lie about something so simple would do far worse for something more important.
Oh, the utter hypocricy.
OMFGWTFBBQ!!! He lied about a blowjob oh what else will such an evil man do.
Oh, but lying to start a war that had been planned for years is ok, and no need to worry about anytihng worse out of that.
Your thinking is fundamentally diseased if you are capable of such
I don't think that you need to prove that every single post of a given sort is modded down to demonstrate a bias or that there's some degree of silencing.
Certainly.
That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic though.
Bias wasn't even mentioned by me.
"some degree" of anything wasn't mentioned by the OP.
He stated that those views were *silenced". Not that there was a bias, not that there was some degree of anything.
The simple fact that both of us and probably many others read the original post demonstrates absolutely beyond any shadow of a doubt that his statement was false. To assert that he didn't know it was false would be to insult his intelligence far more than I did.
I think even the chairman of the democratic party could read through Slashdot and see that it slants to the left. It's really pretty clear.
In fact it isn't. There is a bias against far extremist right wing. That isn't left, it's basic sanity. We fought WW2 against that exact ideology.
There is no left in America. It was destroyed by the same Americans who were most supportive of the Axis.
"Microsoft supporters are silenced on Slashdot". This would still be an opinion.
The statement that you have in quotes is a *statement*. It has a truth value. "I think that..." followed by it would make it an opinion.
I'll admit this bit is a bit pedantic, but it's true nonetheless.
You're right tho, they don't call them television PROGRAMS for nothing, maybe I'm being overly optimistic...
I fear you are, I hope you're not.
Thanks for the response.
Maybe, but do you seriously think there aren't fewer, as you say, "batshit insane" fundies today than during, say, the Salem witch trials?
That was one small area of the country. While there were other similar areas, they were not the majority of the population.
Additionally, the simple difference in population makes a huge difference.
There are almost certainly more crazy fundies today then there were people in America at that time.
Additionally, batshit insane fundamentalism is the largest (group of) religions in America.
So, I think I covered every possible interpretation and demonstrated them all false.
Am I mistaken?
I think you need a vacation there darby.
Probably.
You are one pissed off guy, with such a charmin personality that just makes me want to sing praises about your ability to debate and convince.
Sorry, but republicans have passed well beyond any possibilitty of being dealt with in a reasonable manner.
They declared all out war on anything that doesn't toe their line 100% even when that line is made up of nothing but lies, and blind hatred.
They have declared war on the ideals that made this country.
Pretending that that isn't the case does no good at all.
Always find the political compass to be much more useful, separating the left and right into an economic and a social scale, so that hitler and stalin can occupy the same position on the political scale, but are fairly far apart economically.
I like this one quite a bit. It improves IMO on the political compass.
Scroll about 2/3 down the page if you don't feel like reading the (fairly long) article and just want to see the picture.
If you want to argue about *silencing*, moding a post down makes it go below most people's threshold
Sure, now prove that without one single exception every single post of a given sort is modded down.
Individuals expressing certain opinions get "silenced" at certain times, but the same opinions *are* regularly modded up.
If I say that I think Microsoft supporters are silenced on Slashdot, you might disagree with me, but that doesn't mean I'm lying.
Expressing an opinion as you did there is vastly different than stating it as an absolute fact.
Stating what you know to be an opinion as a fact *is* lying.
Yes you did. You called the guy a moron because he thought there was one sided moderation on politics.
No, I didn't because that is *not* what he said.
I've never denied that more posts are modded one way or the other. I denied that they were *silenced*.
Here, look later in this same post you even quote that exact thing and then pretend that it is something else entirely:
He said that right wing whackos were *silenced*. That is a lie, it is idiotic, and the fact that you come to back it up makes you look like an idiot. Nice job.
See that? It's the same thing I keep saying.
You keep pretending that I said some totally different thing.
Here, look:
Come on man, just read the politics section and count how many pro-republican posts get modded up. It's pretty rare. pro-democratic posts tend to be upgraded more often.
In the first place, it isn't rare. It happens in every related article. Not as often, but the simple fact that their views are almost entirely full of shit given that they are almost all based on backing up blatant lies. All points of view are not equal.
None of that has anything to do with the simple basic fact that no views are *silenced*.
Is your reading comprehension really *that* bad?
I despise both the right AND the left, because both sides are dominated by extremists enamored of using government power to force everyone else to think, and believe, and behave, in whatever fashion they've defined as The One True And Right Way(TM). If you identify yourself with either group of asshats you're just another fucking fascist looking to prove that you have a bigger dick than your neighbor, and that makes you a traitor to everything this country (once) stood for.
I agree completely.
I despise both groups. The Republicans are currently in an overpowering position and abusing that power to entirely new extremes. Thus they deserve far more contempt until such time as they get out of power and then it'll be the Democrats turn to fuck everything up again.
You're so deluded into thinking you're the fucking champion of liberty you believe that you're perfectly justified with 'shooting in the face' anyone who doesn't hold your point of view.
Had you actually read my post, then you would have seen that I have no problems whatsoever with different points of view.
It's direct force agianst me which is the issue at hand. Support for Bush *is* support for the destruction of civil liberties. You can't have it both ways.
But I'll be damned if I let some ranting lunatic anti-freedom fucker like you into office, since you're so obviously predisposed to using government force to shut down the opinions (or snuff the lives) of anyone who doesn't think the way you do.
Point me to where I suggested using government force against anybody..
Oh right, you can't because I didn't.
When a group of people have put forward as their goal, the complete destruction of my way of life as the neo cons have absolutely done, then that right there is an initiation of force against me. Defending my liberty is my right. I'm sorry that you consider an individual talking about defending his own liberty with no mention of government involvement to be such a horrible thing. You honestly think that you're a libertarian? Laughable.
You're just as bad as the Bushies your criticize - perhaps worse.
Laughable again. I suppose you just bend over and take it when people try to fuck you. Of course, anybody who doesn't is even worse than the ones fucking them. Real great attitude there, sparky.
In order for me to understand your point, let's just assume all this is true.
No need to assume. Do some research and you can actually know something.
Is it that you don't like the USA? Because that's a valid point
Wow, a delusional asshat, what a surprise.
I love what America once stood for. A shining beacon of freedom.
I hate what it has become. The opposite.
I utterly despise cowards who think supporting an administration, a political party, or blatant lies has anything to do with patriotism.
How would you solve the "a long time ago, a US ally did something nasty" problem? Should we never ally with anyone?
Wow, you're pretty good at twisting points, manipulation, spin and various other seedy practices generally frowned upon by polite society.
The issue isn't an ally doing something bad as you well know since you had to work pretty hard to strip that nonsense out of what I said.
It's us aiding and supporting those bad things.
Further, when we then use that as an excuse to murder a bunch of people in order to install a newer more compliant ally without dealing with the reality of our own complicity in mass murder, then that is what is known as hypocrisy.
It's not like it's a big secret or anything. The whole world knows all about it.
So when we undertake fundamentally dishonest actions with malice aforethought, our credibility is undermined. A few people profit in theshort term, but the rest of us pay it back in spades in the longterm.
How can the US conduct foreign policy to produce an outcome that everyone will be 100% eternally happy with? (And it's getting late, so try to keep your response shorter than one page. Thx)
Can't. That's a stupid idea.
What we can do is make an attempt to stand up for what we claim our values are.
To do that, we would have to start out with quite a few heads rolling to even make it look like an honest first step.
If we put him Saddam in power, don't we have a duty and responsibility to remove him from power? To correct our mistake, if you will?
It depends, really. Did we step up, admit our complicity and express a real desire to change?
No.
We have the same person who provided the gas in charge of the fucking army.
Our reasoning is based on our great morals and similar crap that is proven crap by the very fact of who is stating it.
Put Rumsfeld in the electric chair. Until that happens your scenario is utterly laughable nonsense.
People constantly criticize the US for supporting bad, violent, etc, leaders. Well, as soon as we remove one, that we did at one time support, why are people still upset at the US? Shouldn't you people congratulate us for finally recognizing at least ONE of our past mistakes and taking steps to correct it?
So let me get this straight. We use our complicit crimes against humanity as an excuse to eliminate a no longer oh so compliant partner in the name of our oh so much better sense of morality and suddenly we're golden?!?
WTF dude.
If we actually *recognized* the mistake and actually worked to correct it, you might have a point however overshadowed by the various torture academies we set up in central america, the various democratically elected leader we murdered to install brutal right wing mass murderers and on and on and on.
The fact is we did nothing of the sort, so you have no point whatsoever. We kept up the same exact game where we're all that is good and Saddam was alll that is bad even though he gassed the Kurds with our blessing and our fucking gas.
That's the fundamental problem Sparky.
If you honestly believe that, no words in all the world will sway you.
:-)
Granted, it is one of the few things that They have directly stated That I actually do believe.
Seriously, how fucking pathetic are you to support something without even researching who and what it is that you are supporting?!?
There doesn't seem to be a cure for Bush Derangement Syndrome.
Hell, put a shotgun in your mouth and pull the trigger and you'll get over it
I hope you get your tinfoil hats at a discount. Tell me, was the Mossad and the CIA behind 9/11?
Ahhh yes, one of the earliest strategies of the right wing hate machine. When the complete idiocy of your point is demonstrated, *pretend* that they actually said something completely different.
w00t! You win the daily Rush Limbaugh's ball licking award. Good show old chum!
Guys like this are living proof that Slashdot has become nothing but a DailyKos.com with a tech focus...
Guys like you are proof that you can convince idiots to actively campaign against their own interests.
It's not common to see a topic modded up that has already been modded down or vice-versa based on ideology.
;-)
/.
I'm not sure how you would judge the ideology of a given moderation, but mod wars happen all the time.
He's mad at you for what you said, which to me suggests there must be some truth to it.
That's possible in this context, but be wary of taking that on as a general rule.
For example, if you were called a bug fucker or somesuch and got mad, that would not mean you actually fucked bugs
How do you define this administration as cowardly?
It is composed primarily of people who dodged the draft. Not by standing up for a principle, but by using their influence to send others in their place so they weren't at risk. Risk either through actually going to war and risk through hurting their later ambitions through standing up for an unpopular viewpoint.
They have flown in the face of everything they have been attacked with and kept on stepping.
Given that they choose how to interact with the media, they have their own propaganda wing of the mainstream media who regularly contradict themselves in order to *always* support the administration, and that they control all three branches of the government, I'm wondering how much courage it takes the administration of TPOTUSA to deal with mr ranting on
Now, if they actually had the courage to stand up for their beliefs, then you would have a point. They don't though. That's why they had to hide behind a constant stream of lies to promote their aganda.
Is a rabidly anti-gay administration using gay prostitutes to lob softballs in the press really your idea of courage?!?
They have repeatedly stood up for American interests, defiant of international or foreign interests.
That is a pretty far out statement.
They have consistently stood up for the agenda they wanted to push going as far as to manufacture evidence and rape the constitution.
Explain to me exactly how pushing an agenda dedicated to the destruction of the founding principles of this nation (read up on what the neo cons stand for) which a huge percentage of the population (huge as in a lot as opposed to most) not only disagrees with but despises is promoting American interests.
Hell, most of the ones who support him do so because they believe the lies.
I'm an American, and he sure as hell isn't standing up for my interests. He's viciously attacking them at every opportunity.
You say they have been proven wrong over and over again, but you fail to come to grip with any view of opposition labeling them as liars, traitors, and wholly unbelievable...
Dude, I've been on to these sick fuckers since Reagan. You know...torture schools in Central America, overthrows of democratically elected leaders to install right wing terrorists who murdered masses of their own people. CIA involvement in the cocaine trade to support terrorists.
JFC! 9/11 was Reagan's legacy coming home to roost. The solution?!? Let the same fuckers keep going.
Sorry, but the "opposition" has no bearing on the facts. Do you seriously think I'm a fucking Democrat? do you seriously think the Democrats are the "opposition". Hell, that's more deluded than thinking the Democrats are "good guys".
so how can they be proven right, from your pov?
They can't, because they have demonstrated beyond the shadow of any reasonable doubt that integrity is anethema to them. Name one goddamned thing they have done that has increased the ability of the public to make a reasonable assessment of what they are doing. They have at *every* opportunity worked to further their ability to hide their agenda from the populace.
That alone is treason of the worst kind.
To your credit, due to your group think and once again, the exact reasons mentioned by the author, you've proven that Iraq WMDs don't exist, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.
I would hardly have called him a moron because he thinks that there is unfair moderation on this site.
I don't even need the "hardly" I said nothing of the sort, nor do I believe anything like that.
I agree with him on that point and I think most people who comment regularly have experienced unfair moderation.
Your statement is inherently contradictory. If "most" people have experienced it then it isn't one sided. Do you get it now?!?
I may be an asshole, but your reading comprehension sucks more ass than Michael Bolton at an ass sucking contest.
He said that right wing whackos were *silenced*
That is a lie, it is idiotic, and the fact that you come to back it up makes you look like an idiot. Nice job.
In other words, if you believe as you suggest that Slashdot is tolerant of all well-expressed views, you may be suffering from craniorectal inversion.
/. isn't *tolerant* of one goddamned thing. It's equal opportunity hatred for anything you might say.
Point me to where I claimed that and you get a cookie.
I support the Administration. I think Mr. Bush is doing a fine job. No, I'm not joking.
Then, quite honestly, I hope to have the opportunity to shoot you right in your treasonous cowardly face.
Not in any way because I don't support your right to hold and express your opinion.
But because you are actively working toward the destruction of my goddamned fucking birthright that my ancestors killed sick mother fuckers like you to defend.
If you are truly that sickening of an individual that you despise the idea that human beings have the right to choose their own destinies, then your death could only be a boon to humankind.
If you think that you don't believe that and you still support the neocon agenda, then you are too stupid to have even researched what you are supporting.
Whether you are a moron or a sociopath isn't the issue anymore. You have actively declared war on liberty and I'm on the other side bitch. Please do the world a favor and kill your evil fucking fascist self.
That is not an ad hominem by the way. You freely stated your support for fascism. I'll bet that you're either too stupid to know it or too cowardly to admit it.
By the very fact your comment... was moderated insightful proves you wrong.
Gee, so was yours.
I guess, not only am I vindicated, but you are proven to be an idiot. Nice Job proving *exactly* my point.
lol ok you know you saying that is like fox saying they're fair and balanced. it's absolutly wrong.
/. IS UNQUESTIONABLY biased to the left part of that is because it hides stuff that would be considered right wing.
/. EVERYTHING he does is wrong pretty much.
Nope, it's not. There is a fundamental moral difference between those who promote freedom and those who try to stamp it out. I'm a promoter of freedom, but I will stamp on asshats who actively try to destroy it.
First, it is not biased to the left. That is idiocy of the highest caliber. A bias against Bush isn't a fucking bias. It's basic common sense and human decency.
To be biased to the left as an American site, America would actually have to have a left. Nice try, try actually learning *something* about politics rather thanspouting the idiotic Fox news bullshit you originally brought up.
God damn it. I'm a fucking Liberal in the classical sense. That means I have recognized the Left and the Right are both sicko fuckwads.
Here's a lesson:
Liberalism is the founding principle of this country. It's so simple it can be summed up in one sentence:
"We hold these truths to be self evident: That all men are created equal."
The left believes in this principle. They also believe that the force of the state should be used against people to enforce this ideal. See USSR, Cambodia, etc. etc. etc. for examples of how fucking retarded this idea is.
The right *disagrees* with this principle.
Further, they believe that the power of the state should be used against people to prevent this. See The Axis, Franco, Bush, etc. etc. etc. to see how fucking retarded this idea is.
So, please could everybody STFU about leftists in America. They don't exist in *any* meaningful context. They were stamped out by the same asshats who were gung ho Hitler supporters before WW2. Not for any decent reasons. JFCOAPS (on a pogo stick) the primary hatreds of the Neo cons are the only fucking things the left got right while it existed here.
no this is the exact same question. you may not LIKE bush, but a lot of people do, or aggree with enough of what he's said/done to have voted him into office twice now.
I meant traditional American values rather than the destruction of them which is what is being sold to idiots who think the "moral destruction" of the country is being driven primarily by people who *merely don't fucking hate gay people*, rather than pulling their heads out of their asses long enough to see the simple fact that gung ho all out capitalism (which they keep supporting) is inherently socialy liberalising. After all, them faggots got money too.
He was voted into office the second time by exactly those people. Read the exit interviews.
The first time he was appointed by an act of treason by the SC. That's after fucking the election. Pay attention.
sorry try and convince me that bush hasn't made the right choices, some of them i'd agree some of them i wouldn't. on
Has he done anything right? It's theoretically possible. The inescapable fact is that pretty much everything he has done *is* wrong by any sort of widely held moral standard.
i was talking about the original poster you responded too..
I responded to your statement.
umm NO. he was NOT impeached about a fucking blowjob, he was impeached about LYING and trying to get others to LIE about said blowjob. huge difference. whether or not you aggree with impeaching him over that is another story.
Ummm, yes.
They stole millions from this country for a witch hunt. They tried to get him on.. what, like 5 different things?!?
Nothing stuck until they found a fat bitch who liked giving her soiled dresses to her mom?!?
Yeah. So he lied about it. That sucks, it's dishonest and asshattery of the highest degree.
He didn't make up a bunch of fucking lies in order to pursue some ivory tower intellectual strategy to blow up a bu
Yeah.. I want to booby trap the message so that if anyone tries to "clone" the message for stealth decryption... *poof* instant feather cloud :-D
;-)
Damn, Dude, as if being stuck fucking pigeons wasn't punishment enough.
You're a mean vindictive person.
I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter
Oh that's nothing. You should hear about my visit to Hilbert's Grand Hotel...
;-)
Dude! I love that place. They moved everybody out and gave me the front room
This is known as "insightful" on Slashdot. Nothing to say or can't be troubled with facts? Insult, attack, defame.
Well, I learned one thing from the right wing hate machine. That's what works.
Let's take these point by point:
proven yourself to be an idiotic moron.
He made a statement that was blatantly false and used typical kharma whore tactics. That meets my definition.
you're a lying sack of shit.
He is certainly a liar. The rest is certainly up for debate.
Asshats like yourself
Are you saying that that is not a typical tactic of asshats like him?
whine like little bitchestypical karma whore tactic.
Ummm.... My only defense is that...why, yes, in fact, it is. Are you denying this?
only fools or sociopaths could possibly support them
You are not seriously going to try and deny this are you?!?
Name another way somebody could support them and I will demonstrate how they fit in to one of the above categories.
keep your moronic 24 hour propaganda lies to yourself.
It was a lie. The topic is 24 hour propaganda.
Where's the problem with this one?
There should be organzed a new party out there knockinig on doors from coast to coast, unreliant upon (and strategically aware of the absence of) media coverage.
;-)
OK, your "strategically aware of" point really intrigues me. Mostly because it points out a fundamental failing of myself.
*How* do you pull that end around?
If you get a million flyers out on one day, that night *every* major media network will be reporting on the "extremists" pushing "anti-American" agendas. Oh, and by the way, they are all atheists and want to extend legal abortions to the 23rd trimester.
Just look at the Seattle anti WTO protests. Sure, there were a bunch of asshats wearing Nikes torching the Nike store or whatever TF it was. But there are actual arguments, the vast majority completely in line with real Christian values, but they've never been aired.
Seriously, I'm asking if you have any actual strategies for that.
Oh, and if my post is missing a few 'i's, it's because my keyboard wants me to be a masochist and hit it harder than anything else.
Well, there's two schools of thought on that I know.
1. If you really want to hurt a masochist, don't beat them.
2. Your keyboard has helped you out a lot over the years, so go ahead. It might break, but it sounds like it's itching for a replacement at some point anyhow
Sorry to be impolite, but I call bullshit! I defy you to find one single person who read 1984 and empathized with O'Brien rather than Smith.
;-)
Well, I don't think "bullshit" quite works, but a quick glance at my posting history would probably absolve you of any worries about politeness
I'd say that Stalin would have empathised with Big Brother.
All his high ups would have empathised with O'Brien.
Repeat the above for Mao, Pol Pot, Franco, GW Bush, various muslim whackos, and every other person who actively worked to suppress freedom.
Look, I'm not saying there's anything decent in that attitude. What I am saying is that there are many people (the majority even?) who would rather be the booter than the bootee.
There are many people (oh please let it be the minority) that look at that situation and see it as opportunity.
As far as showing you the actual peole who read the book, well that's tougher.
Are you saying absolutely that none of the above's hangers on read it?
Are you further saying that they felt for poor Winston but fucked up so badly that they accidentally ended up supporting their local version of Ingsoc?
really? mostly what he expressed is opinion.. you may very well disagree.. but that certainly doens't make him a moron
/. which is a left leaning place.
Nope, factually wrong.
He stated that "the minority" i.e. right wing extremists have been silenced. That is entirely false. It was a lie.
umm bullshit
Ummm Trueshit.
Show me one single point of view no matter how whacked out and extreme that has never been modded up.
let's see how many pro-bush comments are modded up vs how many anti-bush comments are modded up.
Different question.
It's also a different question as to how many Bush policies show utter contempt for what this country stands for and how many are even in the same ballpark. How much do you want to bet that the figures come out similar?
most of it was baseless bush bashing,
At this point in time you are actually trying to call it baseless?!?
What color is the air on your planet. If anything it's been proven by Bush and Co that everybody underestimated their hated of freedom and integrity.
good lord did he rape your mother or something? calm down.
No, but he has:
Raped the FOIA.
Blatantly lied in an effort to push an Iraq war agenda.
Consistently promoted the most incompetent (or evil if you believe in that) people.
Done everything in his power to destroy the idea that America actually stands for something decent which I held as a very high personal value.
Actively promoted torture.
Pissed all over the constitution.
So, no , he didn't rape my mother. He just raped pretty much everything *else* I stand for.
I mean guess what, tons of people said very simliar things about clinton when he was in office! i know you may not have seen it, but it was there in plenty of right leaning places, as opposed to
Yes, they did. It was the same people orchestrating that fiasco (not that Clinton was great or anything). In fact they actually impeached him over a blowjob when they spent millions of our dollars on a fucking witch hunt and could not find another fucking thing to get him on.
Bush could be impeached on several charges that actually matter.
WTF is your point with this one?!?
The media attacked Clinton like a pack of wolves and so when they don't do it to Bush and it takes actual citizens to step up and say holy fucking shit torture camps over a made up war against {Eur|East}Asia?!?!
Dude, seriously, orders of magnitude, night and day. Any Dem, any Rep who makes it to Washington is an asshat working against the American People. That's obvious. The fact that the treason of this administration goes above and beyond is equally as obvious.
lol ok where did he say anything about 24 hour propaganda? i dunno maybe i missed it
He didn't say it. Look at your title bar. It's the topic. Apparently he took it as an invitation to spread more.
Not to say that the innocent should suffer but I didn't see the Islamic community doing anything to stop Saddam's genocide.
But you did see the US supporting it and even supplying the gas. Oh holy shit it was Rumsfeld who delivered it we're back on topic.
Well, I guess if I'm going to be accused of firebombing I guess I really can accuse the entire Muslim community of 9/11. What's the old saying? What's good for the goose is good for the gander?
If you think violence is justified because of the invasion of Iraq I guess I can see the invasion of Iraq as justified by 9/11.
The difference is (assuming that you're an American), that your country aided the genocide, and then most of the same people are in the current administration condemning it and using it as an excuse for this assinine invasion. So, as Americans, *we* are (partially) responsible for the genocide *and* we are responsible for blowing the shit out of lots of innocents supposedly to take out the whacko *we put in power*.
Iraq and Afghanistan were different countries. Of course, we also were responsible for the Taliban as well once we were done with the place as an arena for our cold war antics. Afghanistan was largely responsible for 9/11, Iraq had nothing to do with it.
Were you actually trying to make a point out of all that?