What I love it for, plain and simple, is Portage. I get a versionless, always close-up-to-date system, and I don't spend all my time on patch management. The crazy dependancies of RPM and HPs patches are just ugly memories.
Absolutely.
I run a few racks full of Gentoo servers and it's a snap to keep everything in line. Just use a local portage proxy (emerge http-replicator) and rsync server. ( Never ever ever run emerge --sync on your local rsync server unless you're prepared to potentially do upgrades on everything.)
All your machines will be using the same versions of everything and you save massively on bandwidth and time since everything goes across the LAN with the exception of the actual package tarballs which only have to be downloaded once.
Then with distcc and a cross compiling toolkit, I have a few "spare" Opteron servers that do the builds, so you only compile once per architecture that you have running.
Very slick, very easy to maintain and audit.
I think the advantages of Gentoo don't really become apparent to a lot of people until you have more than a few servers. Plenty of people like it as a desktop OS, but I think its real strengths are in the server room.
I've been using Gentoo for what I guess about 100 days now, and except for me totally screwing something up early on (I think it was the X server) and having to reinstall the entire thing, I've had a good experience with it.
Something you might want to do. Once you get your base system (plus X, KDE/Gnome/whatever) installed, do a stage 4 backup. Basically, just make a tarball out of your partitions.
If you have to reinstall, just boot off the CD, mount your partitions, chroot, copy the image over and untar it. Reboot, and you're good to go. Saves a lot of hassle with reinstalls.
First you demonize the person, then in the very next breath you say you aren't demonizing them, then in the breath after, you call them a liar!
Calling someone out for what they are is not "demonizing". Are you debating the fact that the Republicans have demonstrated that their loyalties lie with their party above their country? That'll be a real tough one.
I dunno, maybe the clear, cold air up here clears the head and lowers the blood pressure. From up here it appears that there is actual hatred between Democrats and Republicans.
There is, but the point you're missing is that there is hatred between pretty much everybody else and the Republicans. They launched a savage attack on our constitution and on each of us individually.
I think the Democrats suck, but I hate the Republicans.
The Democrats are not the ones with the torture/murder camps where they are sending innocent people. Don't think they're innocent? Then prove it. That's right, you can't which is the point. That's treason and no decent person alive still supports the Republicans for those reasons as well as their various other crimes.
It ain't right, guys.
Why, the fuck, exactly do you think I'm so pissed off about it?
Good lord, you really are just a parrot of the right wing hate squad.
Your purpose for entering into this discussion was quite plainly to attempt to marginalize my opinion and attack me for having the nerve to go against the typical group-think by saying that flag waving is okay and should be encouraged more.
Rule 1 for douchebad arguments: When presented with facts act like a victim. My purpose was to point out the idiocy of the fascist lies you were telling. No more, no less. You're not "standing up to the man", you're not fighting any sort of marginalization. Those are more idiotic lies you use because you were confronted with facts and you are incapable of either dealing with them or admitting your mistakes.
that. That's fine, but instead of finding out exactly what point I was trying to communicate, you launch into your tirade about how I'm desecrating it and all it stands for, etc. So basically, your whole plan was to score points by trying to distort my meaning completely and pigeonhole me into your little ideological box.
Lunacy.
according to you yourself in your own words your "argument" was completely discredited as you were making it, so according to you, you weren't trying to communicate crap.
Are you really this deeply stupid?
So the foundation for everything you've said was based on presumptions that you made about someone you don't even know.
No, it was based solely upon what I do know for a fact about you based on the ridiculous vitriolic screeching you were doing about "teh eval Liberulz" and similar lying nonsense.
That's probably got a lot to do with why I don't seem to be making any sense to you. You are basing your arguement on your own distorted perception of what I said that bear no actual relation to what I actually meant.
No, it has to do with the fact that your entire point can be boiled down to "teh eval Liberulz hate America". Which is a completely nonsensical statement and a blatant lie. My argument is based on exactly what you said as is quite clear as I have now twice quoted the particular excerpt of your ravings to which I was responding.
You accuse me of making fascistic statements but yet you have the audacity to be just as fascist attempting to marginalize my voice by calling my opinions "laughable" as if that is some sort of cogent arguement.
Right. Fascism is making fun of an idiot who can't even make a rational point? You really need to look into what fascism is. It's kind of important at this point in time.
You point *is* laughable. That is a simple statement of fact. It is concluded from the fact that your entire rant was about how the evil liberals hate America because they actually stand up for it.
Assuming you have any idea what my opinions are and you probably don't since you seem so eager to jump the gun and make your own assumptions, by attempting to dismiss me out of hand you reveal your own intolerant, repugnant nature.
Sure, right. I was responding directly to your "opinion" which I even quoted. I dismiss you out of hand because all you're doing is spouting ridiculous nonsense. You deserve to be dismissed out of hand. It has nothing to do with assumptions or intolerance. It has to do with the fact that you're just spouting nonsense.
Strangely, we've been going round and round about this all day as I've been trying my damndest to get some work done and you just keep mouthing off rapid fire nonsense that has had nothing to do with my original post at all. Please get a clue.
Given that I was responding to your point and quoting you while doing that, the deep dishonesty of this ridiculous statement stands out loud and clear.
oh... thanks... what the fsck have you 'added' to all of this except for your own opinions? typical...
I asked a simple question, "What have the Republicans done that you could possibly be proud of?". In response to that I got an irrelevant, ignorant, dishonest rant about the Democrats which is the typical Republican response to any sort of difficult question.
It's a simple honest question. I'm a decent, honest person, and I think of a single thing they've done in 6 years that I wouldn't be ashamed of myself for supporting.
Your initial post was to defend the original poster who liberally used the word "American" throughout. I
Dude, can you make even one statement that isn't complete crap? My initial statement was to skewer you for this little bit of fascist bullshit you spewed:
And maybe you should try a little flag waving. That's one of the main reasons liberals in this country aren't taken seriously. You look like you hate this country and all it stands for.
Remember this diarheatic expulsion of yours? You're the one defending them, so they're yours.
So, I stand by my statement. You're just apparently unable to take an extremely simple statement and apply it properly . Given your proven inability to put together a rational argument, don't you think it's time to reevaluate your ability to process all the bullshit that's flung at you constantly? You're not even making sense.
Your entire line of rhetoric is so full of straw men and ad hominim attacks as to render the attempt at an intelligent conversation with you worthless.
Right. Doublethink. You're talking about yourself there, Chief.
You have yet to even acknowledge what this discourse is even about. Again, for the nth time for the really slow learners, blanket stereotypical statements about the supposed proto-typical American destroy your credibility in an arguement.
So, then given what even brought me into this as I referenced above, what you are saying is that your argument has no credibility? There really is no other way to take what you just said.
And you wonder why you constantly hear the question, "Why do you hate America?".
No, I don't wonder. It's due to that whole right wing hate squad villification of thought, patriotism (not jingoism like you're promoting that's very different), and government oversight. No big mystery there.
Now, did you actually have any sort of rational point whatsoever or was decrying people for supposedly doing exactly what you then proceeded to do your entire purpose in spouting that idiodic dreck you are parroting off the right wing hate squad?
Damn. And no, your comments were not in any way quite clear in being directed only towards Republicans. They were quite clear in your use of the word "Americans". Americans != Republicans. GET IT?
Really? Truly?
Then I'm sure that you will have no problem pointing out one single use of the word "Americans" in my post.
Yeah, thought not.
? And the reason I keep "dropping the L bomb" is that arguing in the particular manner that you are is typical of liberals.
What, you mean using facts instead of relying solely on epithets?
Demonizing "Liberals" regardless of the relevance of the term to anything is pretty much the sole Republican strategy though.
At which point I knew that anything else you had to say was wholely without merit.
I am not a Democrat. The Democrats are not the issue here. The massive crimes and deceit of the Republicans who are the party *currently* in power is the issue here.
You have done nothing to demonstrate a single thing which could cause a sane person to be proud of a vote for as purely corrupt an organization as the Republican party.
As I figured all you were able to do is rant about the evil Democrats.
(Sigh.) How perfectly you exemplify my comment to the previous poster. Instead of intelligently replying or even attempting a cogent refutation, you, in typical liberal fashion, resort to name calling and insults. You'd make Michael Moore proud.
Doesn't the doublethink ever give you a headache?
Lies, name calling, and insults constituted the entirety of *your* original post. Then you went and dropped the "L" bomb in this post even though it in no way applies or is relevant.
And how simply does it need to be put so that even your pea brain can grasp, insulting the citizens of the entire country and calling them cowards and saying they "turn off their brains" therefore implying that they are acting out of complete ignorance and that they are afraid of their own farts, though hilarious in its inanity, is not defending your country. If those comments are directed specifically towards Bush loving republicans then say so. Just making a blanket statement seemingly about all Americans does nothing more than piss people off and quite simply borders on bigotry. In typical liberal fashion it comes off as being tolerant of everyone and everything as long as they agree with you.
My statements were quite clearly directed at Republicans, so what exactly you're whining about here, I'm not sure.
The simple fact is that this administration is acting as if all Americans are cowards afraid of their own farts since all they've managed to do is make up nonsense threats and demand the destruction of our liberty and protections from government in order to save us. People like you are leaping up to defend them while they're doing it.
Again with the "L" bomb. Is that really all you have? Well, obviously, otherwise somebody on your side would have come up with a credible argument for their policies which isn't easily proven to be a lie, but nothing yet. We're still waiting.
Please don't be so presumptious as to assume that they are *my* leaders. Again, in unadulterated liberal fashion you put your true colors of intolerance, bigotry, name-calling, and condescension to the fore. When you don't agree with someone, they are "ignorant", a "coward", "Sparky" whatever that means, etc. Congratulate yourself on being a perfect example of why liberals attract nothing but derision by mainstream America.
You're the one defending them, so they're yours. Again with the Liberal thing. I'm not one. I disagree with your politics of deceit and murder, but that doesn't make me a liberal. It's sad that this is still all you can do is pretend that everybody who disagrees with you is magically a Liberal even though you have nothing to base that on.
If you weren't such a narrowminded asinine little ass (see now you have me doing it), I'd inform you that it is perfectly reasonable to do both. But I'm sure you'd just stick your fingers in your ears and start singing "la la la" or something.
Hardly. It is perfectly reasonable to do both, but the problem is that the current Republican party is waving the flag around while wiping their asses with the constitution. You're the one who has a problem dealing with reality. If you didn't, then surely you could have come up with something better than continuing to call me a Liberal when I've never said anything that could possibly lead a reasonable person to conclude that.
. Yes, I am a liberal, just not a sniveling, Michael Moore acolyte like you.
Stick to your talking points regardless of reality.
Part of that being to constructively and rationally engage in political discourse by not marginalizing and antagonizing Americans as a whole like they are all part of some dronelike hive conservative front but actually pinning blame where it really fits. Namely, W and friends, true republicans that actually are a member of the aforementioned dronelike hive, and whiney bitches like you.
Let me see if I have this straight. W and friends are to blame for their actions, but the p
This is why you guys are going to keep losing. As a conservative who actually believes in limited government and individual freedom, I strongly disagree with the current Republican leadership on many issues. But when the opposition is this unhinged, all I can do is either leave my ballot blank or "waste" it on a third party.
Or you could actually take the time to do your duty as a citizen and spend some time looking into who these people are and what they really have done.
I noticed that you totally failed to address any of the OPs accusations, instead falling back on the standard deeply dishonest Republican tactic of calling anybody who doesn't spout the same nonsense propaganda as the right wing hate squad "unhinged" or similar.
That would involve integrity though. Something you're quite clearly lacking.
I call Bush's fiscal policies "cut and run economics" - give tax cuts to the super rich, run up the deficits, and run away like cowards letting future generations suffer (I am a grandpa of two young kids - this is something I really care about).
That's been their sole economic policy for three decades at the very least. Nothin new there.
If you honestly think that Bush, who taps the federal coffers like a drunken sailor on shore leave, is wacko-far right, perhaps you're wacko far left?
No, the problem, obviously, is that you don't know what right and left are in this context. Both the right and the left are in favor of big government.
Is it the massive deficits? The tremendous increase in government size cost and power? Is it the massive campaign of lies in order to invade a country uninvolved with the attacks on us? Is it the new invasive spying campaigns in violation of the constitution? Could it be the gay hatred amendment?
Seriously, there is nothing that's happened as a result of your vote which a person with any morals, integrity, or decency could support, so what exactly is it that you're proud of?
Or are you so out of touch with reality that you haven't even managed to get your head around the idea that "actions speak louder than words"?
An unregulated 'neutral net' has been maintained by market forces for decades. Why do we need government to 'help' us now?
The players in that market (the Telcos) are colluding together against everybody else to undermine and avoid the results of the market forces in order to bill us all again for the same services we're already paying for. Since they are in collusion, market forces don't work.
That is why we need something to address the issue. Whether it's the government or not is certainly up for debate, but that market sector is fundamentally broken by collusion, so it ain't going to be market forces that act to fix it.
However, when it comes to economics, I note a major trend towards being anti-regulation, which is typically considered to be an economically right-wing affectation.
Wrongo.
Both right and left believe in big government and regulation.
"Liberal" in the classical sense of the word (i.e. what the left and right are left or right *of*) is what you're thinking of.
Basically, the classical Liberal philosophy can be summed up like so: "We hold these truths to be self evident: That all men are created equal".
Left and right are best defined in terms of their opposition to Liberalism. The left agrees with that fundamental tenet, but goes further to say that the power of the state should be used to enforce that equality. The right disagrees with the fundamental tenet and further believes that the power of the state should be used for the benefit of the elite and to keep the masses down.
Both sides require big government interference in people's lives to achieve their goals.
I don't know where you could get a crazy idea that the right doesn't like regulation.
Maybe you've been sitting alone in a dark room with your ears plugged for the last 30 years or so?
. I too am a GOPer, and quite upset with some of GW's fiscal policies that he set forth.
Where the fuck do you get off being "quite upset"?!?
You voted for those policies. We all got them.
If you did not want those policies, then maybe you should have done your god damned job as a citizen and actually put some thought into who you were voting for?
So, seriously, save it.
You actively chose to have those exact policies. Nothing that Bush has done was a surprise to anybody who took their responsibilities as a citizen seriously and actually looked into who and what he was.
You're a great example of the typical Republican contempt for personal responsibility.
"Whaaaa Whaaaaaa I voted for something and therefore it's my fault, but I'll just whine like a little bitch about how upset I am rather than taking responsibility for my own actions"
If you actually took the time to figure out how they managed to fool you with such simple obvious nonsense that an interested 12 year old could have figured out, then maybe you'd actually be able to avoid making such idiotic mistakes in future?
No, that would involve admitting your failure which is again, personal responsibility. You can't have that, now can you?
The way in which Dem alarmism is being acted upon could be devastating to our election processes. While I have no problems with gripes with the system, the wanton spreading of unsubstantiated statements and pure conjecture will do more to disenfranchise the marginal of our society than the supposed tampering in select locations by the GOP. The alarmism of the Dems is more likely to take away what little hope people have in our electoral process and turn people, who otherwise could have/would have voted away from the booths without the GOP lifting a finger.
What an entirely insane statement.
This has not one god damned thing to do with "Dem alarmism". The only way in which this issue is partisan is on the Republican side. *Everyone* in this country who is more interested in fair elections is concerned about this issue. It's only your sort who is trying to brush it under the table with your typical deeply dishonest tactics of "oh whaaaaaa it's the evil Democrats being partisan again" and other similar nonsense when it's *you* who made a completely nonsensical entirely partisan statement.
I'm not a Republican or a Democrat, but I am *very* concerned about the simple basic *fact* that the voting machines are trivial to hack *regardless of which of your douchebag parties is hacking it*.
So, yes the voting machines are a real issue which all decent [eople are extremely concerned about.
Being a Republican, your loyalty is to your party above your country, your fellow citizens and most especially above any sense of integrity. That has been repeatedly demonstrated over the last 30 years or so.
While creating evidence of irregularities is good thing - we need to do what we can to improve the process, demonizing a segment of the population is not at all helpful toward creating a just and fair system (unless you are attempting to create communist state, in which case, go for it, but don't worry about the "just and fair" system then).
Nobody is "demonizing" Republicans. Republicans are doing quite well at demonstrating exact;ly who and what they are by their continual cowardly acts of contempt for honest discussion as you demonstrated perfectly with your idiotic liitle nonsense rant about how the evil Dems are making up this whole thing.
At the risk of being modded down, let me say that I tangled with daveschroeder myself awhile back and this was my experience as well.
What else can you expect from this guy:
As far as US foreign policy is concerned, I definitely do espouse neoconservative positions, and indeed believe in many of those principles firmly.
He just admitted in that statement that he believes in using lies and manipulation to attack any sort of honest discussion. He, in fact, "believes firmly" in exactly that in his own words.
You certainly can't expect *any* integrity from a person who believes firmly that the power of lies, murder, and manipulation should be freely used against the citizens of a free society in order to engage in foreign policy which is completely treasonous to the nation in question.
If you ever think this guy is lying, just look at that quote again and you'll know for sure that he is as he freely admits to his contempt for integrity and honesty and his love for lies and manipulation.
And maybe you should try a little flag waving. That's one of the main reasons liberals in this country aren't taken seriously. You look like you hate this country and all it stands for.
What a laughable statement.
While you're waving your flag around desecrating it by your contempt for all that it stands for, people who actually do give a shit aobut this country are working to fix the problems created by the ignorant flag wavers.
Sorry, but you do not love this country if you think those who are actually defending it (from the savage assaults unleashed by cowardly traitors like *your* leaders look like they hate it.
Since you're the one demonstrating your complete ignorance of current events, Sparky, you are the one without the integrity to do your duty as a citizen to be informed.
I can understand you hating the current leadership but its hard to distinguish the difference when you use rhetoric like We turn off our brains and We hide under our beds
How else could you possibly explain the purely cowardly support for leaders who are going "boo! evil terrorists!! Now we need to repeal the bill of rights and the constitutional protections".
The fact is that your sort is backing the destruction of our liberty and you are doing it out of a largely nonsense fear.
That's about as canonical example of cowardice as you could ever find. It's blind ignorance as well, as it's one of the oldest tricks in the book which a little knowledge of history would have revealed to you as such. You just need to have the courage to actually think.
You just keep waving that flag as opposed to standing up for anything it represents, little coward.
It's time for you to grow a spine, Sparky. You're the coward who is working against what this country was founded on.
The magic unicorns came down and magically got rid of internment camps which were put in place under FDR, a Democrat, so why wouldn't things restore themselves back to normal after the current Asshat In Charge evacuates the office?
Gee, I don't know. Maybe because that was during a war that had an end. The current "war" has no possibility of an end in sight by design. Therefore, there is no reason for the government to give up any of the power they have stolen using this pathetic joke of a war.
Let's not get on the "my party is better than your party with regards to civil liberties" high horse here.
I don't have a party, so mine *is* better.
The fact is that the Republicans are far worse than the Democrats if only for the simple reason that they have more power.
You dont like Bush. That's fine. I dont either and I actually voted for the guy the last time around. I admit my mistakes. However, the yahoo will, thank God, be gone come Jan. 20th 2009.
If you were admitting your mistakes, then you would be working your ass off to get oyur representatives to impeach, try and convict him for his mass of crimes. You wouldn't be saying, "well, I fucked up, but let him keep going on his insane crusade against liberty.". If you let him get away with it, then you are excusing it and *approving* of it. Don't pretend that it could be any other way. By your continued support of him and *all* of his actions, you are also saying that it is ok for the next guy to do the same and worse.
I beleive we will recover from this.
Yet you are unable to come up with any mechanism by which it would be possible. Hell, you're saying that we should just wait and let him continue on.
If not, well, to be honest we've got about 280 million guns in this nation. I've got a good chunk myself. I'll toss them out to Republicans, Democrats, whatever, if we feel the need to go and fix it ourselves.
Sure you would, Sparky. It's way past time for that and I haven't seen you or your Republican ilk do one god damn thing except cheer him on and screech hatred of the evil faggots and liberals. You might not be on that particular bandwagon, but you are actively supporting those goons regardless as they are exactly who you chose to vote for and who you are continuing to support through your apathy.
You most likely would prefer to deny that your an American. You would probably never stand up and fight for your country. You are ashamed of your own country and everything it stands for. You, and the others like you, and destroying our country. United We Stand? Not with people like you. End of Thread.
Wow, maybe you truly are that deeply stupid.
So by giving up all of the rights and freedoms that defined this country, you are a good American and people like me who actually do care about doing our patriotic duty to be informed citizens and stand up against the government when it oversteps its boundaries are the ones destroying it.
Well, you're certainly good at doublethink.
You're also a slimy yellow coward whose fear of being a citizen *is* what is destroying this country.
Please kill yourself now before your weak and cowardly nature helps completely fuck our country. It's the only way one as deeply cowardly as you have absolutely proven yourself to be could ever benefit America.
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What I love it for, plain and simple, is Portage. I get a versionless, always close-up-to-date system, and I don't spend all my time on patch management. The crazy dependancies of RPM and HPs patches are just ugly memories.
Absolutely.
I run a few racks full of Gentoo servers and it's a snap to keep everything in line.
Just use a local portage proxy (emerge http-replicator) and rsync server.
( Never ever ever run emerge --sync on your local rsync server unless you're prepared to potentially do upgrades on everything.)
All your machines will be using the same versions of everything and you save massively on bandwidth and time since everything goes across the LAN with the exception of the actual package tarballs which only have to be downloaded once.
Then with distcc and a cross compiling toolkit, I have a few "spare" Opteron servers that do the builds, so you only compile once per architecture that you have running.
Very slick, very easy to maintain and audit.
I think the advantages of Gentoo don't really become apparent to a lot of people until you have more than a few servers.
Plenty of people like it as a desktop OS, but I think its real strengths are in the server room.
It's really not complicated, just tedious.
/dev/hda && mkfs.xfs /dev/hda1 && mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/gentoo/ && chroot /mnt/gentoo/ && env-update && . /etc/profile && emerge sync && cd /usr/portage && scripts/bootsrap.sh && emerge system && emerge vim && vi /etc/fstab && emerge gentoo-dev-sources && cd /usr/src/linux && make menuconfig && make install modules_install && emerge gnome mozilla-firefox openoffice && emerge grub && cp /boot/grub/grub.conf.sample /boot/grub/grub.conf && vi /boot/grub/grub.conf && grub && init 6
Heck, it doesn't even have to be that tedious.
From bash.org:
it only takes three commands to install Gentoo
cfdisk
that's the first one
I've been using Gentoo for what I guess about 100 days now, and except for me totally screwing something up early on (I think it was the X server) and having to reinstall the entire thing, I've had a good experience with it.
Something you might want to do. Once you get your base system (plus X, KDE/Gnome/whatever) installed, do a stage 4 backup.
Basically, just make a tarball out of your partitions.
If you have to reinstall, just boot off the CD, mount your partitions, chroot, copy the image over and untar it.
Reboot, and you're good to go. Saves a lot of hassle with reinstalls.
Quick, cheap and dirty, but it works well.
First you demonize the person, then in the very next breath you say you aren't demonizing them, then in the breath after, you call them a liar!
Calling someone out for what they are is not "demonizing". Are you debating the fact that the Republicans have demonstrated that their loyalties lie with their party above their country? That'll be a real tough one.
I dunno, maybe the clear, cold air up here clears the head and lowers the blood pressure. From up here it appears that there is actual hatred between Democrats and Republicans.
There is, but the point you're missing is that there is hatred between pretty much everybody else and the Republicans. They launched a savage attack on our constitution and on each of us individually.
I think the Democrats suck, but I hate the Republicans.
The Democrats are not the ones with the torture/murder camps where they are sending innocent people.
Don't think they're innocent? Then prove it. That's right, you can't which is the point.
That's treason and no decent person alive still supports the Republicans for those reasons as well as their various other crimes.
It ain't right, guys.
Why, the fuck, exactly do you think I'm so pissed off about it?
Good lord, you really are just a parrot of the right wing hate squad.
Your purpose for entering into this discussion was quite plainly to attempt to marginalize my opinion and attack me for having the nerve to go against the typical group-think by saying that flag waving is okay and should be encouraged more.
Rule 1 for douchebad arguments: When presented with facts act like a victim.
My purpose was to point out the idiocy of the fascist lies you were telling. No more, no less.
You're not "standing up to the man", you're not fighting any sort of marginalization.
Those are more idiotic lies you use because you were confronted with facts and you are incapable of either dealing with them or admitting your mistakes.
that. That's fine, but instead of finding out exactly what point I was trying to communicate, you launch into your tirade about how I'm desecrating it and all it stands for, etc. So basically, your whole plan was to score points by trying to distort my meaning completely and pigeonhole me into your little ideological box.
Lunacy.
according to you yourself in your own words your "argument" was completely discredited as you were making it, so according to you, you weren't trying to communicate crap.
Are you really this deeply stupid?
So the foundation for everything you've said was based on presumptions that you made about someone you don't even know.
No, it was based solely upon what I do know for a fact about you based on the ridiculous vitriolic screeching you were doing about "teh eval Liberulz" and similar lying nonsense.
That's probably got a lot to do with why I don't seem to be making any sense to you. You are basing your arguement on your own distorted perception of what I said that bear no actual relation to what I actually meant.
No, it has to do with the fact that your entire point can be boiled down to "teh eval Liberulz hate America".
Which is a completely nonsensical statement and a blatant lie. My argument is based on exactly what you said as is quite clear as I have now twice quoted the particular excerpt of your ravings to which I was responding.
You accuse me of making fascistic statements but yet you have the audacity to be just as fascist attempting to marginalize my voice by calling my opinions "laughable" as if that is some sort of cogent arguement.
Right.
Fascism is making fun of an idiot who can't even make a rational point?
You really need to look into what fascism is. It's kind of important at this point in time.
You point *is* laughable. That is a simple statement of fact. It is concluded from the fact that your entire rant was about how the evil liberals hate America because they actually stand up for it.
Assuming you have any idea what my opinions are and you probably don't since you seem so eager to jump the gun and make your own assumptions, by attempting to dismiss me out of hand you reveal your own intolerant, repugnant nature.
Sure, right. I was responding directly to your "opinion" which I even quoted.
I dismiss you out of hand because all you're doing is spouting ridiculous nonsense. You deserve to be dismissed out of hand. It has nothing to do with assumptions or intolerance. It has to do with the fact that you're just spouting nonsense.
Strangely, we've been going round and round about this all day as I've been trying my damndest to get some work done and you just keep mouthing off rapid fire nonsense that has had nothing to do with my original post at all. Please get a clue.
Given that I was responding to your point and quoting you while doing that, the deep dishonesty of this ridiculous statement stands out loud and clear.
oh... thanks... what the fsck have you 'added' to all of this except for your own opinions? typical...
I asked a simple question, "What have the Republicans done that you could possibly be proud of?".
In response to that I got an irrelevant, ignorant, dishonest rant about the Democrats which is the typical Republican response to any sort of difficult question.
It's a simple honest question. I'm a decent, honest person, and I think of a single thing they've done in 6 years that I wouldn't be ashamed of myself for supporting.
Can you?
Your initial post was to defend the original poster who liberally used the word "American" throughout. I
Dude, can you make even one statement that isn't complete crap?
My initial statement was to skewer you for this little bit of fascist bullshit you spewed:
And maybe you should try a little flag waving. That's one of the main reasons liberals in this country aren't taken seriously. You look like you hate this country and all it stands for.
Remember this diarheatic expulsion of yours? You're the one defending them, so they're yours.
So, I stand by my statement. You're just apparently unable to take an extremely simple statement and apply it properly . Given your proven inability to put together a rational argument, don't you think it's time to reevaluate your ability to process all the bullshit that's flung at you constantly? You're not even making sense.
Your entire line of rhetoric is so full of straw men and ad hominim attacks as to render the attempt at an intelligent conversation with you worthless.
Right. Doublethink. You're talking about yourself there, Chief.
You have yet to even acknowledge what this discourse is even about. Again, for the nth time for the really slow learners, blanket stereotypical statements about the supposed proto-typical American destroy your credibility in an arguement.
So, then given what even brought me into this as I referenced above, what you are saying is that your argument has no credibility?
There really is no other way to take what you just said.
And you wonder why you constantly hear the question, "Why do you hate America?".
No, I don't wonder. It's due to that whole right wing hate squad villification of thought, patriotism (not jingoism like you're promoting that's very different), and government oversight. No big mystery there.
Now, did you actually have any sort of rational point whatsoever or was decrying people for supposedly doing exactly what you then proceeded to do your entire purpose in spouting that idiodic dreck you are parroting off the right wing hate squad?
Damn. And no, your comments were not in any way quite clear in being directed only towards Republicans. They were quite clear in your use of the word "Americans". Americans != Republicans. GET IT?
Really? Truly?
Then I'm sure that you will have no problem pointing out one single use of the word "Americans" in my post.
Yeah, thought not.
? And the reason I keep "dropping the L bomb" is that arguing in the particular manner that you are is typical of liberals.
What, you mean using facts instead of relying solely on epithets?
Demonizing "Liberals" regardless of the relevance of the term to anything is pretty much the sole Republican strategy though.
Nice try.
You're batting zero. Care to try again?
uh... wait.. was'nt it the last dem
At which point I knew that anything else you had to say was wholely without merit.
I am not a Democrat.
The Democrats are not the issue here.
The massive crimes and deceit of the Republicans who are the party *currently* in power is the issue here.
You have done nothing to demonstrate a single thing which could cause a sane person to be proud of a vote for as purely corrupt an organization as the Republican party.
As I figured all you were able to do is rant about the evil Democrats.
Typical.
The Chicago expressways are maintained, but that's also a problem: construction. Nothing creates a huge traffic jam faster than construction!
;-)
Nonsense. The Dan Ryan is a breeze to drive down with average speeds around 80 MPH 24 hours a day
(Sigh.) How perfectly you exemplify my comment to the previous poster. Instead of intelligently replying or even attempting a cogent refutation, you, in typical liberal fashion, resort to name calling and insults. You'd make Michael Moore proud.
Doesn't the doublethink ever give you a headache?
Lies, name calling, and insults constituted the entirety of *your* original post.
Then you went and dropped the "L" bomb in this post even though it in no way applies or is relevant.
And how simply does it need to be put so that even your pea brain can grasp, insulting the citizens of the entire country and calling them cowards and saying they "turn off their brains" therefore implying that they are acting out of complete ignorance and that they are afraid of their own farts, though hilarious in its inanity, is not defending your country. If those comments are directed specifically towards Bush loving republicans then say so. Just making a blanket statement seemingly about all Americans does nothing more than piss people off and quite simply borders on bigotry. In typical liberal fashion it comes off as being tolerant of everyone and everything as long as they agree with you.
My statements were quite clearly directed at Republicans, so what exactly you're whining about here, I'm not sure.
The simple fact is that this administration is acting as if all Americans are cowards afraid of their own farts since all they've managed to do is make up nonsense threats and demand the destruction of our liberty and protections from government in order to save us.
People like you are leaping up to defend them while they're doing it.
Again with the "L" bomb.
Is that really all you have? Well, obviously, otherwise somebody on your side would have come up with a credible argument for their policies which isn't easily proven to be a lie, but nothing yet. We're still waiting.
Please don't be so presumptious as to assume that they are *my* leaders. Again, in unadulterated liberal fashion you put your true colors of intolerance, bigotry, name-calling, and condescension to the fore. When you don't agree with someone, they are "ignorant", a "coward", "Sparky" whatever that means, etc. Congratulate yourself on being a perfect example of why liberals attract nothing but derision by mainstream America.
You're the one defending them, so they're yours.
Again with the Liberal thing.
I'm not one.
I disagree with your politics of deceit and murder, but that doesn't make me a liberal. It's sad that this is still all you can do is pretend that everybody who disagrees with you is magically a Liberal even though you have nothing to base that on.
If you weren't such a narrowminded asinine little ass (see now you have me doing it), I'd inform you that it is perfectly reasonable to do both. But I'm sure you'd just stick your fingers in your ears and start singing "la la la" or something.
Hardly. It is perfectly reasonable to do both, but the problem is that the current Republican party is waving the flag around while wiping their asses with the constitution. You're the one who has a problem dealing with reality. If you didn't, then surely you could have come up with something better than continuing to call me a Liberal when I've never said anything that could possibly lead a reasonable person to conclude that.
. Yes, I am a liberal, just not a sniveling, Michael Moore acolyte like you.
Stick to your talking points regardless of reality.
Part of that being to constructively and rationally engage in political discourse by not marginalizing and antagonizing Americans as a whole like they are all part of some dronelike hive conservative front but actually pinning blame where it really fits. Namely, W and friends, true republicans that actually are a member of the aforementioned dronelike hive, and whiney bitches like you.
Let me see if I have this straight.
W and friends are to blame for their actions, but the p
This is why you guys are going to keep losing. As a conservative who actually believes in limited government and individual freedom, I strongly disagree with the current Republican leadership on many issues. But when the opposition is this unhinged, all I can do is either leave my ballot blank or "waste" it on a third party.
Or you could actually take the time to do your duty as a citizen and spend some time looking into who these people are and what they really have done.
I noticed that you totally failed to address any of the OPs accusations, instead falling back on the standard deeply dishonest Republican tactic of calling anybody who doesn't spout the same nonsense propaganda as the right wing hate squad "unhinged" or similar.
That would involve integrity though. Something you're quite clearly lacking.
I call Bush's fiscal policies "cut and run economics" - give tax cuts to the super rich, run up the deficits, and run away like cowards letting future generations suffer (I am a grandpa of two young kids - this is something I really care about).
That's been their sole economic policy for three decades at the very least. Nothin new there.
If you honestly think that Bush, who taps the federal coffers like a drunken sailor on shore leave, is wacko-far right, perhaps you're wacko far left?
No, the problem, obviously, is that you don't know what right and left are in this context.
Both the right and the left are in favor of big government.
i voted republican and am proud to say i did.
So what exactly is it that you're proud of?
Is it the massive deficits?
The tremendous increase in government size cost and power?
Is it the massive campaign of lies in order to invade a country uninvolved with the attacks on us?
Is it the new invasive spying campaigns in violation of the constitution?
Could it be the gay hatred amendment?
Seriously, there is nothing that's happened as a result of your vote which a person with any morals, integrity, or decency could support, so what exactly is it that you're proud of?
Or are you so out of touch with reality that you haven't even managed to get your head around the idea that "actions speak louder than words"?
An unregulated 'neutral net' has been maintained by market forces for decades. Why do we need government to 'help' us now?
The players in that market (the Telcos) are colluding together against everybody else to undermine and avoid the results of the market forces in order to bill us all again for the same services we're already paying for.
Since they are in collusion, market forces don't work.
That is why we need something to address the issue.
Whether it's the government or not is certainly up for debate, but that market sector is fundamentally broken by collusion, so it ain't going to be market forces that act to fix it.
However, when it comes to economics, I note a major trend towards being anti-regulation, which is typically considered to be an economically right-wing affectation.
Wrongo.
Both right and left believe in big government and regulation.
"Liberal" in the classical sense of the word (i.e. what the left and right are left or right *of*) is what you're thinking of.
Basically, the classical Liberal philosophy can be summed up like so: "We hold these truths to be self evident: That all men are created equal".
Left and right are best defined in terms of their opposition to Liberalism.
The left agrees with that fundamental tenet, but goes further to say that the power of the state should be used to enforce that equality.
The right disagrees with the fundamental tenet and further believes that the power of the state should be used for the benefit of the elite and to keep the masses down.
Both sides require big government interference in people's lives to achieve their goals.
I don't know where you could get a crazy idea that the right doesn't like regulation.
Maybe you've been sitting alone in a dark room with your ears plugged for the last 30 years or so?
. I too am a GOPer, and quite upset with some of GW's fiscal policies that he set forth.
Where the fuck do you get off being "quite upset"?!?
You voted for those policies. We all got them.
If you did not want those policies, then maybe you should have done your god damned job as a citizen and actually put some thought into who you were voting for?
So, seriously, save it.
You actively chose to have those exact policies. Nothing that Bush has done was a surprise to anybody who took their responsibilities as a citizen seriously and actually looked into who and what he was.
You're a great example of the typical Republican contempt for personal responsibility.
"Whaaaa Whaaaaaa I voted for something and therefore it's my fault, but I'll just whine like a little bitch about how upset I am rather than taking responsibility for my own actions"
If you actually took the time to figure out how they managed to fool you with such simple obvious nonsense that an interested 12 year old could have figured out, then maybe you'd actually be able to avoid making such idiotic mistakes in future?
No, that would involve admitting your failure which is again, personal responsibility. You can't have that, now can you?
The way in which Dem alarmism is being acted upon could be devastating to our election processes. While I have no problems with gripes with the system, the wanton spreading of unsubstantiated statements and pure conjecture will do more to disenfranchise the marginal of our society than the supposed tampering in select locations by the GOP. The alarmism of the Dems is more likely to take away what little hope people have in our electoral process and turn people, who otherwise could have/would have voted away from the booths without the GOP lifting a finger.
What an entirely insane statement.
This has not one god damned thing to do with "Dem alarmism". The only way in which this issue is partisan is on the Republican side.
*Everyone* in this country who is more interested in fair elections is concerned about this issue. It's only your sort who is trying to brush it under the table with your typical deeply dishonest tactics of "oh whaaaaaa it's the evil Democrats being partisan again" and other similar nonsense when it's *you* who made a completely nonsensical entirely partisan statement.
I'm not a Republican or a Democrat, but I am *very* concerned about the simple basic *fact* that the voting machines are trivial to hack *regardless of which of your douchebag parties is hacking it*.
So, yes the voting machines are a real issue which all decent [eople are extremely concerned about.
Being a Republican, your loyalty is to your party above your country, your fellow citizens and most especially above any sense of integrity. That has been repeatedly demonstrated over the last 30 years or so.
While creating evidence of irregularities is good thing - we need to do what we can to improve the process, demonizing a segment of the population is not at all helpful toward creating a just and fair system (unless you are attempting to create communist state, in which case, go for it, but don't worry about the "just and fair" system then).
Nobody is "demonizing" Republicans. Republicans are doing quite well at demonstrating exact;ly who and what they are by their continual cowardly acts of contempt for honest discussion as you demonstrated perfectly with your idiotic liitle nonsense rant about how the evil Dems are making up this whole thing.
Save it Sparky.
You're a liar and you've been called on it.
At the risk of being modded down, let me say that I tangled with daveschroeder myself awhile back and this was my experience as well.
What else can you expect from this guy:
As far as US foreign policy is concerned, I definitely do espouse neoconservative positions, and indeed believe in many of those principles firmly.
He just admitted in that statement that he believes in using lies and manipulation to attack any sort of honest discussion. He, in fact, "believes firmly" in exactly that in his own words.
You certainly can't expect *any* integrity from a person who believes firmly that the power of lies, murder, and manipulation should be freely used against the citizens of a free society in order to engage in foreign policy which is completely treasonous
to the nation in question.
If you ever think this guy is lying, just look at that quote again and you'll know for sure that he is as he freely admits to his contempt for integrity and honesty and his love for lies and manipulation.
And maybe you should try a little flag waving. That's one of the main reasons liberals in this country aren't taken seriously. You look like you hate this country and all it stands for.
What a laughable statement.
While you're waving your flag around desecrating it by your contempt for all that it stands for, people who actually do give a shit aobut this country are working to fix the problems created by the ignorant flag wavers.
Sorry, but you do not love this country if you think those who are actually defending it (from the savage assaults unleashed by cowardly traitors like *your* leaders look like they hate it.
Since you're the one demonstrating your complete ignorance of current events, Sparky, you are the one without the integrity to do your duty as a citizen to be informed.
I can understand you hating the current leadership but its hard to distinguish the difference when you use rhetoric like We turn off our brains and We hide under our beds
How else could you possibly explain the purely cowardly support for leaders who are going "boo! evil terrorists!! Now we need to repeal the bill of rights and the constitutional protections".
The fact is that your sort is backing the destruction of our liberty and you are doing it out of a largely nonsense fear.
That's about as canonical example of cowardice as you could ever find. It's blind ignorance as well, as it's one of the oldest tricks in the book which a little knowledge of history would have revealed to you as such. You just need to have the courage to actually think.
You just keep waving that flag as opposed to standing up for anything it represents, little coward.
It's time for you to grow a spine, Sparky. You're the coward who is working against what this country was founded on.
The magic unicorns came down and magically got rid of internment camps which were put in place under FDR, a Democrat, so why wouldn't things restore themselves back to normal after the current Asshat In Charge evacuates the office?
Gee, I don't know. Maybe because that was during a war that had an end. The current "war" has no possibility of an end in sight by design. Therefore, there is no reason for the government to give up any of the power they have stolen using this pathetic joke of a war.
Let's not get on the "my party is better than your party with regards to civil liberties" high horse here.
I don't have a party, so mine *is* better.
The fact is that the Republicans are far worse than the Democrats if only for the simple reason that they have more power.
You dont like Bush. That's fine. I dont either and I actually voted for the guy the last time around. I admit my mistakes. However, the yahoo will, thank God, be gone come Jan. 20th 2009.
If you were admitting your mistakes, then you would be working your ass off to get oyur representatives to impeach, try and convict him for his mass of crimes. You wouldn't be saying, "well, I fucked up, but let him keep going on his insane crusade against liberty.".
If you let him get away with it, then you are excusing it and *approving* of it. Don't pretend that it could be any other way.
By your continued support of him and *all* of his actions, you are also saying that it is ok for the next guy to do the same and worse.
I beleive we will recover from this.
Yet you are unable to come up with any mechanism by which it would be possible.
Hell, you're saying that we should just wait and let him continue on.
If not, well, to be honest we've got about 280 million guns in this nation. I've got a good chunk myself. I'll toss them out to Republicans, Democrats, whatever, if we feel the need to go and fix it ourselves.
Sure you would, Sparky.
It's way past time for that and I haven't seen you or your Republican ilk do one god damn thing except cheer him on and screech hatred of the evil faggots and liberals.
You might not be on that particular bandwagon, but you are actively supporting those goons regardless as they are exactly who you chose to vote for and who you are continuing to support through your apathy.
You most likely would prefer to deny that your an American. You would probably never stand up and fight for your country. You are ashamed of your own country and everything it stands for. You, and the others like you, and destroying our country. United We Stand? Not with people like you. End of Thread.
Wow, maybe you truly are that deeply stupid.
So by giving up all of the rights and freedoms that defined this country, you are a good American and people like me who actually do care about doing our patriotic duty to be informed citizens and stand up against the government when it oversteps its boundaries are the ones destroying it.
Well, you're certainly good at doublethink.
You're also a slimy yellow coward whose fear of being a citizen *is* what is destroying this country.
Please kill yourself now before your weak and cowardly nature helps completely fuck our country. It's the only way one as deeply cowardly as you have absolutely proven yourself to be could ever benefit America.
It's as simple as I trust the government to protect me and you don't.
Either this is a troll, or you are probably the most deeply stupid person I've ever heard of.
The bad man will go away on Janurary 20, 2009.
Oh yeah? Will the Bill of Rights magically regenerate before or after the magic unicorns come down to make everything happy?