But the basic point - that licensing costs mean NOTHING in terms of owning a server is compeltely true.
This is utter, utter horseshit, designed to deflect from the truth of the matter.
I work for a small company (15 employees). I built our web/email/etc. server, and it runs Debian Linux with Interbase.
The machine would need a sysadmin regardless. If it were not me, and the machine ran Windows, an NT monkey would cost at least 75-80% of my salary. A good one would cost just as much as me.
I handle all the "support" for the machine. If you have a bit of knowledge, it's not all that hard. What I can't answer myself, I do through mailing lists.
If we used Microsoft solutions, instead of Free or Open Source Software, let's see what we'd have to pay: Win2K w/ Internet license - $2,000; SQL Server - $40,000 (it's a dual proc system); Exchange - roughly $3,600 for 15 CALs...more when we get more employees
That's nearly $50,000, not counting various development tools that we would probably have to pay for as well.
That is not an inconsequential amount of money, and it is disingenuous to pretend that it is.
You don't need to agree to the GPL to *use* the software.
You only need a license to *redistribute* the software.
From COPYING:
5. You are not required to accept this License, since you have not
signed it. However, nothing else grants you permission to modify or
distribute the Program or its derivative works. These actions are
prohibited by law if you do not accept this License. Therefore, by
modifying or distributing the Program (or any work based on the
Program), you indicate your acceptance of this License to do so, and
all its terms and conditions for copying, distributing or modifying
the Program or works based on it.
And partly, they're right - linux is getting more and more an instable (compare mdk 7.2 stability with openBSD, for example)
What are you talking about? What does the distribution have to do with stability? I mean, it's not like Mandrake is writing a bunch of their own kernel modules to insert.
I suspect what you're talking about is XFree86 4.0.1, which *was* notoriously unstable for at least some people, myself included. Since upgrading to 4.0.3, no more crashes.
But we're talking about X crashing, not the kernel. I'm running 2.4.2-XFS, and have had no kernel instability whatsoever.
As far as creating one's own server distribution, I don't see why that would be necessary. Debian fills that role pretty well, IMO.
I used to be an OS/2 user, and I remember the long, agonizing death of OS/2 (which is actually still occurring).
At least with Be, being a smaller company, it will come quickly.
I'm not sure why anyone would think that they could compete with Microsoft with a proprietary OS. Look at how hard it is, even with a Free OS. I think they realized that, but too late in the game.
But the OS/2 experience taught me something: I will never rely on proprietary software, if I can help it. Proprietary software means Very Bad Things when your vendor goes under, discontinues your product, or changes their mind about what the product is.
Unless the BeOS source can somehow be release (and it sounds doubtful given some of the licensing for parts of the OS they did), once Be dies, that's it. BeOS can still be used, but there will be no new support or development for it. And, once again, the people who really get screwed are the users.
I really hope Linus changes his opinion on the relative urgency of merging XFS. It is something that I think the kernel could really benefit from, given the kinds of things people are using Linux for these days. I'd like to see it in 2.5.x ASAP, and hopefully backported to 2.4.x.
Oh, yes...we're all idiots, who need the guidance of oh-so-superior intellects such as yourself.
Who one voted for in the last election was as much a matter of what region one lives in, as anything else. Those who do not live in a metropolitan area were much less likely to vote for Algore than those who do.
Believe it or not, there are intelligent people who do not live in huge cities!
Oh, the magnaminity of the "tolerant" "non-judgmental" liberal...truly something to experience. Has anyone actually ever done so, though?
You do not get an NT admin for $30,000 a year. You get a mouse monkey.
NT takes at least as much resources in time and money to admin properly as Linux. If you do not put those resources into it, you will have insecure, unstable servers.
But the liberal responses to your post have not received any negative moderations.
The moderation system is nothing more than an alternative method for people to express their views, and that's all people are doing with it.
When people see something with which they disagree, they mod it down. And because most of the young'ns who populate Slashdot don't have the life experience to grow out of their state school indoctrination, they take it out on conservatives.
Wow thinking like this is the reason SUVs are popular and there is a gas shortage.
The reason SUVs are popular is CAFE, which are the fleet fuel efficiency standards, enforced by the federal government.
The effect of CAFE has been the elimination of station wagons and full-size automobiles. In the place of those vehicles, people have switched to buying (even bigger) SUVs.
Besides, anyone wise enough to use Linux will be wise enough to avoid using a satellite modem anyways.
How do you figure? I run Linux, and am considering StarBand, now that I know I can use it. Am I an idiot? I don't think I'm an idiot, but I could be wrong.
Or is it, perhaps, that you neglected to consider that some people don't live in the urban sewer, and are not peppered with broadband options? I have two connectivity choices: dialup or satellite.
Now, when the LEO birds go up, I'll obviously switch to one of those services in a second, but until then, StarBand may be a reasonable option.
The Celerons are running at 500 MHz. Since they are solid at 2.00v, I could probably crank a bit more out of them, but I like the way they run as it is.
I've had a dual Celeron system for a year. Motherboard it ABIT BP-6. Processors are Celeron 333a (Socket 370).
Runs at 2.00v, and has been quite stable. The only problem I've had with this box at all is that the power supply is insufficient, so it sometimes has trouble on initial boot. But I don't usually reboot it, anyhow.
Where do you get an Athlon 500? I don't think they sell those anymore. You're comparing apples and oranges, by suggesting that MHz is the single benchmark by which CPUs are judged.
It is more reasonable to say, how would $1500 worth of Athlon box measure up to $1500 of Macintosh?
I think we know how that's going to come out, though.:-)
What if you are unemployed, and do not have the money to pay for an ensurance policy?
Then, you get Medicaid, or one of the States' programs, like the Oregon Health Plan.
The question, honestly, is not, as proponents of socialized health care claim, about providing health care to the poor; it is really about whether health care for the average person should be provided and/or funded by government or private organizations.
Slashdot Mirror
This is utter, utter horseshit, designed to deflect from the truth of the matter.
I work for a small company (15 employees). I built our web/email/etc. server, and it runs Debian Linux with Interbase.
The machine would need a sysadmin regardless. If it were not me, and the machine ran Windows, an NT monkey would cost at least 75-80% of my salary. A good one would cost just as much as me.
I handle all the "support" for the machine. If you have a bit of knowledge, it's not all that hard. What I can't answer myself, I do through mailing lists.
If we used Microsoft solutions, instead of Free or Open Source Software, let's see what we'd have to pay: Win2K w/ Internet license - $2,000; SQL Server - $40,000 (it's a dual proc system); Exchange - roughly $3,600 for 15 CALs...more when we get more employees
That's nearly $50,000, not counting various development tools that we would probably have to pay for as well.
That is not an inconsequential amount of money, and it is disingenuous to pretend that it is.
You only need a license to *redistribute* the software.
From COPYING:
5. You are not required to accept this License, since you have not signed it. However, nothing else grants you permission to modify or distribute the Program or its derivative works. These actions are prohibited by law if you do not accept this License. Therefore, by modifying or distributing the Program (or any work based on the Program), you indicate your acceptance of this License to do so, and all its terms and conditions for copying, distributing or modifying the Program or works based on it.
What are you talking about? What does the distribution have to do with stability? I mean, it's not like Mandrake is writing a bunch of their own kernel modules to insert.
I suspect what you're talking about is XFree86 4.0.1, which *was* notoriously unstable for at least some people, myself included. Since upgrading to 4.0.3, no more crashes.
But we're talking about X crashing, not the kernel. I'm running 2.4.2-XFS, and have had no kernel instability whatsoever.
As far as creating one's own server distribution, I don't see why that would be necessary. Debian fills that role pretty well, IMO.
At least with Be, being a smaller company, it will come quickly.
I'm not sure why anyone would think that they could compete with Microsoft with a proprietary OS. Look at how hard it is, even with a Free OS. I think they realized that, but too late in the game.
But the OS/2 experience taught me something: I will never rely on proprietary software, if I can help it. Proprietary software means Very Bad Things when your vendor goes under, discontinues your product, or changes their mind about what the product is.
Unless the BeOS source can somehow be release (and it sounds doubtful given some of the licensing for parts of the OS they did), once Be dies, that's it. BeOS can still be used, but there will be no new support or development for it. And, once again, the people who really get screwed are the users.
Not me, though...I learned my lesson with OS/2.
I'm using the CVS tree version, just because the patches tend to run a bit too far behind for my tasts.
Here are the instructions for grabbing the tree via CVS:
Linux XFS CVS Instructions
I really hope Linus changes his opinion on the relative urgency of merging XFS. It is something that I think the kernel could really benefit from, given the kinds of things people are using Linux for these days. I'd like to see it in 2.5.x ASAP, and hopefully backported to 2.4.x.
Well, I don't like the reality behind that, simply because of what has happened to the comments as a result.
Believe it or not, at one time, that wasn't the case.
But it's funny, in a pitiful sort of way, anyhow.
Oh, well...I guess MLB can afford to lose another fan.
You tell him! After all, we're just a bunch of hicks out here who wouldn't know what to do with a broadband connection, right?
So, your solution is to leave rural people off the Internet all together, right?
I'm running 2.4.2-XFS right now.
And the fixed font in the TEXTAREA in Konqueror I'm typing into right now is iris. :-)
--
Oh, yes...we're all idiots, who need the guidance of oh-so-superior intellects such as yourself.
Who one voted for in the last election was as much a matter of what region one lives in, as anything else. Those who do not live in a metropolitan area were much less likely to vote for Algore than those who do.
Believe it or not, there are intelligent people who do not live in huge cities!
Oh, the magnaminity of the "tolerant" "non-judgmental" liberal...truly something to experience. Has anyone actually ever done so, though?
--
No route to host
--
Ahem.
You do not get an NT admin for $30,000 a year. You get a mouse monkey.
NT takes at least as much resources in time and money to admin properly as Linux. If you do not put those resources into it, you will have insecure, unstable servers.
--
Wow. I'm underwhelmed.
Well, hey...we'll have those snazzy LEO Internet services any time now. 2005? 2008?
By then, the phone companies will have DSL out to me.
--
Moderation Totals:Flamebait=7, Insightful=6, Interesting=4, Overrated=1, Total=18.
But the liberal responses to your post have not received any negative moderations.
The moderation system is nothing more than an alternative method for people to express their views, and that's all people are doing with it.
When people see something with which they disagree, they mod it down. And because most of the young'ns who populate Slashdot don't have the life experience to grow out of their state school indoctrination, they take it out on conservatives.
--
The reason SUVs are popular is CAFE, which are the fleet fuel efficiency standards, enforced by the federal government.
The effect of CAFE has been the elimination of station wagons and full-size automobiles. In the place of those vehicles, people have switched to buying (even bigger) SUVs.
Unintended consequences.
--
His show really whipped a donkey's ass, incidentally.
--
How do you figure? I run Linux, and am considering StarBand, now that I know I can use it. Am I an idiot? I don't think I'm an idiot, but I could be wrong.
Or is it, perhaps, that you neglected to consider that some people don't live in the urban sewer, and are not peppered with broadband options? I have two connectivity choices: dialup or satellite.
Now, when the LEO birds go up, I'll obviously switch to one of those services in a second, but until then, StarBand may be a reasonable option.
--
The Celerons are running at 500 MHz. Since they are solid at 2.00v, I could probably crank a bit more out of them, but I like the way they run as it is.
--
Runs at 2.00v, and has been quite stable. The only problem I've had with this box at all is that the power supply is insufficient, so it sometimes has trouble on initial boot. But I don't usually reboot it, anyhow.
--
It is more reasonable to say, how would $1500 worth of Athlon box measure up to $1500 of Macintosh?
I think we know how that's going to come out, though. :-)
--
Then, you get Medicaid, or one of the States' programs, like the Oregon Health Plan.
The question, honestly, is not, as proponents of socialized health care claim, about providing health care to the poor; it is really about whether health care for the average person should be provided and/or funded by government or private organizations.
--
H4X0Rdrives, inc., announces its new line of SuperMFM/166 and ESDIPlus! hard drives.
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Incorrect. This is a Republic, assuming you're talking about the U.S.
I would be more judicious in your use of the term "moron."
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...is a vote for civil war.
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But I expected the arguments to at least be plausible.
What we have instead, is an argument that Microsoft's software is not at fault; the problem is faulty administration.
This is being claimed despite the fact that Microsoft wrote the freaking software!
If they can't admin it properly, how is it reasonable to expect anyone else to do so?
SHEESH!
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