OpenOffice 2 allows for percentage based zoom of the entire UI (all text and all icons in the UI)
No, see http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=166793&cid=139 13451 -- OOo is still worse than Word 6. (What you call "percentage based zoom of the entire UI" was an option provided since Windows 3.0 and yes, Word 6 did provide the information on how to do that as well!)
Even if you take modern Windows accessibility support into account, there are two other major accessibility issues in which Word 6.0 beats OOo: better helpfiles and the ability to map every key combination to any function.
In other words, disabled people have been enjoying important accessibility features more than 10 years ago and you wish them to be deprived from all these features.
But don't worry, your Anti-Microsoft friends here who think that "in 1995 MS Word has about the same support for disabilities as did Vi and Nroff" will soon moderate my posting as Flamebait or maybe Troll:)
I never use IE (or any other MSHTML-based browser) and get my updates regularly with Firefox with no problem. And I never encountered a slow link. Of course Firefox is my default browser.
Moderation of this entire thread (including its parent) is a shame to Slashdot.
It is quite obvious what is going on here. Any anti-Microsoft comment will get random moderation bonuses while any argument to such comments will be considered flamebait; facts will be considered overrated. Apparently some people think (maybe they are right) that in Slashdot any argument against such comments is a flamebait, considering that anti-Microsoft fans will immediately try to flame the critic. Just as they have.
Please don't tell me that metamoderation is not going to solve the problem. It is part of the problem.
Is there any reason to participate to any discussion that relates to an MS product in Slashdot?
You would need device drivers in your office suite if (for example) you were blind and they were the only option for you to work. Keep in mind that Office 4.3 was developed for Windows 3.1...
But saying that OpenOffice.org doesn't offer "enlarging toolbar buttons" is wrong
No, it's right. The option to zoom the user interface in OOo is what you get by simply changing to the large font setting in Windows. It does not alter the size of the toolbar buttons.
Nothing in the section "Microsoft services for people [...]" were found in Word 6.4.
All information and contact details were taken straight from the Word 6 help file. Good documentation *is* a feature. Not everything has to be coded to help people with disabilities.
just as easily be offered by Sun or any independant vendor supporting OOo
Let's hope they do. In the meantime, the helpfile in OOo provides almost zero information for people with disabilities.
I am impressed too that you've already got mod points for being "insightful" while you both insist on a fallacious argument without any real data or experience on the topic: "it wasn't a matter that much concerned me at the time" and "Can you list the accessiblity features Office 95?".
Very well then. Here is a summary the accessibility support between Microsoft Word 6 (that is Office 4.3, not even Office 95!!!) and OpenOffice Writer.
Microsoft Word 6 accessibility items not found in OpenOffice.org:
Enlarging toolbar buttons
Lets you map commands to any key combination
With the addition of Microsoft's Access Pack (downloadable from various BBSes, contact details provided on Word's help files) the user gains these additional benefits:
Allow single-finger typing of SHIFT, CTRL, and ALT key combinations.
Ignore accidental keystrokes.
Adjust the rate at which a character is repeated when you hold down a key, or turn off character repeating entirely.
Prevent extra characters if you unintentionally press a key more than once.
Enable you to control the mouse cursor by using the keyboard.
Enable you to control the computer keyboard and mouse by using an alternate input device.
Provide a visual cue when the computer beeps or makes sounds.
Microsoft services for people who are deaf or hard-of-hearing, not found in OpenOffice.org:
Through a text telephone (TT/TDD) service, Microsoft provides people who are deaf or hard-of-hearing with complete access to Microsoft product and customer services. You can contact Microsoft Sales and Service on a text telephone by dialing (800) 892-5234 between blah blah. For technical assistance you can contact Microsoft Product Support Services on a text telephone at (206) 635-4948 blah blah.
Microsoft software documentation on audio cassettes
Provides additional information on customizing Windows 3 for people with disabilities
Additional information on products for people who are blind or have low vision
Besides the phone numbers provided above, information is being provided on academic research such as the University of Wisconsin-Madison producing a book and a compact disc which describe products that help people with disabilities use computers. One full page of such information is provided
Now. Can you name me a SINGLE option in OpenOffice.org which is not provided by the operating system and is useful to people with disabilities? Can you also name me a single paragraph for information or support for people with disabilities? A phone number perhaps? Aural help?
Nick I am not going to participate in your Usenetesque style of response. Remove the fluffy "Let's be charitable here" irony and your posting is thin air.
Arkanes, is there "much of a reason" to pay attention to YOU anymore?
Mods, perhaps you should be more careful in your ratings.
OO.o does have accessibility support, even if it's not as good as what Office has. Previous versions of Office (97 and the like) have worse accessibility, so if they were good enough for workers then OO.o should be too
Ah, I see: x > 0, z > x, z > y, y > 0, therefore x should be "good enough" since y was good enough.
The argument is fallacious and shows total (or intended) ignorance of figures. Openoffice does have some accessibility support which however is almost not insignificant when compared even to Microsoft Office 95. You see, Microsoft has invested real money to support those people.
especially if funding can be found to sponser accessibility work in OO.o
That would be great. Microsoft, however, calls this funding "payment", charges it to end users only and not on the general public and has come up with a better product 10 years ago.
From the original article: While conditions were nearly perfect Saturday -- clear skies and almost no wind -- Wallace said moisture in the old boat's wood prevented the vessel from catching fire.
Who says that there was no wind in the roman battle? Wind may actually help a fire, not prevent it.
Please don't use FUD. I find it hard to believe that Firefox is less stable than Mozilla, without proof.
Mozilla has different design goals than Firefox, that's all. I like it, and if development were as active as in Firefox I would still use it as my default.
Instead of firing up your address book or your email client, you have them already up and running together with your browser, consuming practically zero additional resources.
Chances are that you are constantly running your browser, right?
Try it and you shall see. Start Firefox and Thunderbird and then compare their total to Mozilla, (sorry I just can't get used to "SeaMonkey"). You are in for a big surprise.
Personally, I used to be a big fan of Mozilla, but since development focused on Firefox, I decided to make the change. However, this didn't work in Mozilla Org's favor since I had to pit Thunderbird againt my Outlook 2003 and Thunderbird was blown to pieces.
Having all in one was a good incentive for me. I never really understood why they stopped developing Mozilla under the Firefox usability guidelines. That would make a killer app.
Slashdot Mirror
No, see http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=166793&cid=139 13451 -- OOo is still worse than Word 6. (What you call "percentage based zoom of the entire UI" was an option provided since Windows 3.0 and yes, Word 6 did provide the information on how to do that as well!)
Even if you take modern Windows accessibility support into account, there are two other major accessibility issues in which Word 6.0 beats OOo: better helpfiles and the ability to map every key combination to any function.
In other words, disabled people have been enjoying important accessibility features more than 10 years ago and you wish them to be deprived from all these features.
But don't worry, your Anti-Microsoft friends here who think that "in 1995 MS Word has about the same support for disabilities as did Vi and Nroff" will soon moderate my posting as Flamebait or maybe Troll :)
I stand corrected for the misreading.
I think you are using some kind of auto-update feature, right?
Well, you can also use the "offline" updating from here: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/officeupdate/
> > I'd hazard a guess they've got more UI designers than a project like OO has developers.
9 08514 article, his opinions about Office are worth less than a paperbag.
> You'd be wrong, though.
So, Arkanes thinks that OO has equal or more UI designers than MS Office.
Considering that Arkanes has also authored this http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=166793&cid=13
What do you mean?
I never use IE (or any other MSHTML-based browser) and get my updates regularly with Firefox with no problem. And I never encountered a slow link. Of course Firefox is my default browser.
Moderation of this entire thread (including its parent) is a shame to Slashdot.
It is quite obvious what is going on here. Any anti-Microsoft comment will get random moderation bonuses while any argument to such comments will be considered flamebait; facts will be considered overrated. Apparently some people think (maybe they are right) that in Slashdot any argument against such comments is a flamebait, considering that anti-Microsoft fans will immediately try to flame the critic. Just as they have.
Please don't tell me that metamoderation is not going to solve the problem. It is part of the problem.
Is there any reason to participate to any discussion that relates to an MS product in Slashdot?
You would need device drivers in your office suite if (for example) you were blind and they were the only option for you to work. Keep in mind that Office 4.3 was developed for Windows 3.1...
But saying that OpenOffice.org doesn't offer "enlarging toolbar buttons" is wrong
No, it's right. The option to zoom the user interface in OOo is what you get by simply changing to the large font setting in Windows. It does not alter the size of the toolbar buttons.
Nothing in the section "Microsoft services for people [...]" were found in Word 6.4.
All information and contact details were taken straight from the Word 6 help file. Good documentation *is* a feature. Not everything has to be coded to help people with disabilities.
just as easily be offered by Sun or any independant vendor supporting OOo
Let's hope they do. In the meantime, the helpfile in OOo provides almost zero information for people with disabilities.
But Arkanes made the original assertion and I challenged it. You both failed to come up with facts...
...Oh, this is too boring. I am now enhancing my Slashdot Experience. Enough replies :)
This is a response to both NickFortune's posting http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=166793&cid=139 08964 and Arkane's http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=166793&cid=139 08733
I am impressed too that you've already got mod points for being "insightful" while you both insist on a fallacious argument without any real data or experience on the topic: "it wasn't a matter that much concerned me at the time" and "Can you list the accessiblity features Office 95?".
Very well then. Here is a summary the accessibility support between Microsoft Word 6 (that is Office 4.3, not even Office 95!!!) and OpenOffice Writer.
Now. Can you name me a SINGLE option in OpenOffice.org which is not provided by the operating system and is useful to people with disabilities? Can you also name me a single paragraph for information or support for people with disabilities? A phone number perhaps? Aural help?
Nick I am not going to participate in your Usenetesque style of response. Remove the fluffy "Let's be charitable here" irony and your posting is thin air.
Arkanes, is there "much of a reason" to pay attention to YOU anymore?
Mods, perhaps you should be more careful in your ratings.
Ah, I see: x > 0, z > x, z > y, y > 0, therefore x should be "good enough" since y was good enough.
The argument is fallacious and shows total (or intended) ignorance of figures. Openoffice does have some accessibility support which however is almost not insignificant when compared even to Microsoft Office 95. You see, Microsoft has invested real money to support those people.
especially if funding can be found to sponser accessibility work in OO.o
That would be great. Microsoft, however, calls this funding "payment", charges it to end users only and not on the general public and has come up with a better product 10 years ago.
What? T$R???
How can you call "pleasing a customer" the:
T$R got what it deserved
Who says that there was no wind in the roman battle? Wind may actually help a fire, not prevent it.
No you were right. 3.0 required a 286 (normal mode) but would also run on a 386 using protected mode.
3.1 required a 386.
"If I want to blow a million dollars on TV ads for my favored candidate, the government ought not have the right to stop me"
Indeed, if your government is democratic, it has the obligation, not the right, to stop you.
Even though you help uncover the truth, the victim is still "a poorly educated individual" ? And not the author of the article you have responded ???
Please don't use FUD. I find it hard to believe that Firefox is less stable than Mozilla, without proof.
Mozilla has different design goals than Firefox, that's all. I like it, and if development were as active as in Firefox I would still use it as my default.
> I never really understood why they stopped developing Mozilla under the Firefox usability guidelines.
Correction -- I meant to say: "I never really understood why they didn't continue developing Mozilla, but under the Firefox usability guidelines"
Efficiency, speed, economy
Instead of firing up your address book or your email client, you have them already up and running together with your browser, consuming practically zero additional resources.
Chances are that you are constantly running your browser, right?
Try it and you shall see. Start Firefox and Thunderbird and then compare their total to Mozilla, (sorry I just can't get used to "SeaMonkey"). You are in for a big surprise.
Personally, I used to be a big fan of Mozilla, but since development focused on Firefox, I decided to make the change. However, this didn't work in Mozilla Org's favor since I had to pit Thunderbird againt my Outlook 2003 and Thunderbird was blown to pieces.
Having all in one was a good incentive for me. I never really understood why they stopped developing Mozilla under the Firefox usability guidelines. That would make a killer app.
Thank you. I found many references to Windows. Here is one:
d etails.show_tm_details?p_tm_number=603960&p_search _no=1&p_ExtDisp=D&p_detail=DETAILED&p_rec_no=16&p_ rec_all=76
d etails.show_tm_details?p_tm_number=985197&p_search _no=2&p_ExtDisp=D&p_detail=DETAILED&p_rec_no=6&p_r ec_all=8
http://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/atmoss/falcon_
and here is the one for Linux:
http://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/atmoss/falcon_
Well it's an Australia state issue and I am sure it will be fixed soon.
Does anyone know if "Windows" is a registered trademark in Australia?
If you know anyone tooting other people's horns, let me know.
While redudant bitching is an old specialty with a surplus in /.
Ah heck. I'll edit my prefs and stop reading comments.
Well, instead of VISTA silliness, I would be very happy with a WIN2K version with Cleartype and network bridges...
"I am in a happy relationship, have a beautiful apartment, brand new car, high pay job...say no more!!"
What a killer line!
God, I feel so proud in being a man!
The poster is right. The chinese service searches for MP3s and provides download links: http://mp3.baidu.com/m?f=ms&rn=&tn=baidump3&ct=134 217728&word=beatles&submit=%B0%D9%B6%C8%CB%D1%CB%F 7&lm=-1
I can't think how great these news are for RIAA...