With apologies to Old Ben, I for one would rather give up a little speed for stability, portability, and adblock, foxmarks, and the very real benefits of using an open source product.
But, if they were to GPL it.....
rhY They won't GPL it, their users, customers (a lot!) and fans are happy with a limited but professional developer community and your slashdot message won't change it.
Opera ALPHA (yes, not even beta) showing blank page:40 MB RAM Firefox final, stable: 65,2 MB
That Opera figure contains IMAP client, IRC client, News client, full feature RSS and even Bittorrent.
Why change a working thing?
Also Firefox being GPL really doesn't matter to me anymore, they should explain WHY they dropped official support from that IMAP Client, Thunderbird. Some say it has something to do with Google relations and Gmail.
A true open source (along with philosophy and without shadowy agreements) browser these days is Konqueror and nothing else. 99% chance it will work natively on Windows and OS X when KDE 4 releases too.
I'm not expecting them to try Lynx or anything, but at least test Safari on Windows? The one that also claims to be fast? IT media has "Apple Fan" phobia lately. If I was a professional reviewer working for that kind of site, I would ignore Safari.:)
I have even paid for Webkit based browser (Omniweb) long time ago but it wasn't for the speed. It was how native it works,feels and being coded by professional developers. I never heard anyone other than Apple to advertise how "fast" Safari is. Yes, it will be fast since it uses native system frameworks and developed by professionals. It uses ColorSync, Quartz can even display CYMK jpeg images but for speed? I never got the deal really.
From what I've seen the speed rankings in all tests always have Opera and Safari leading with IE and FF being behind.
Opera aims at different market -- small gadgets. This is where the speed is really critical. For IE and FF good enough is enough, since performance on modern desktops is not that critical.
From what I've seen the speed rankings in all tests always have Opera and Safari leading with IE and FF being behind.
Opera aims at different market -- small gadgets. This is where the speed is really critical. For IE and FF good enough is enough, since performance on modern desktops is not that critical.
As a Quad G5 (4x 2500) Mac owner with lots of RAM, I really don't want a browser choking up an entire CPU and flooding my memory. I didn't pay money to cover amateur programming mistakes by other people. As same guy, I flamed Opera guys about not fixing a bug happens on Slashdot beta, first thing I checked was that after getting that awesome 9.5 alpha and yes it is fixed.
I have used a Xeon Video workstation lately and poor AVID was acting like it is on 80386 because a stupid "free" antivirus was taking whole CPU cycles trying to "scan" gigabyte level raw videos while it was asked to ignore them.
It is common getting replies as "get more RAM" or "upgrade your CPU" from various browser fans but when I see a browser using 100% CPU , I get alerted about what kind of security issues it may have and why I should be wasting my CPU to it.
Opera's power comes from managing to code and sell full feature browsers which would even run on Nokia 7650 with 2 MB of RAM. Don't let the Desktop versions memory usage fool you, it is mostly RAM Cache, not memory "flood". Instead of flooding memory, they use it for a good reason and release immediately when another app needs it.
I use IMAP based mailboxes and like 4-5 different mail clients. I reject anything offering that horrible outdated protocol (pop3) even if it is "free" as Gmail.
I also unsubscribed from "Yahoo Plus" stating they should offer IMAP option for money and give free pop3 to ordinary users.
In fact, in 2007, you should even demand IMAP IDLE extension support with SSL/TLS. Amazing is, they could save huge money/bandwidth if they used IMAP as explained at http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/faqparts/ExternalMail. htm#ExternalIMAPVsPOP They insist on POP3, I heard from a credible postmaster that the main reason is Outlook Express and its horrible IMAP support. I am not sure if it is the deal but if we don't have w3c valid pages and transparent PNG just because IE (pre 7?) didn't support them, it makes sense.
That KKK thing could be true, no idea. But he also signed Run DMC and Public Enemy. And he played with Beastie Boys, as a band member.
It is not true and I bet it has to do with some idiotic religious fanatics got whole idea of Slayer album which he produced wrong thinking Slayer is endorsing what Germany did in WW 2. They were describing it impersonating the nut jobs who were behind those actions.
They were describing the horrible actions. Does Spielberg's movies describing what they did without any kind of censor makes him a nazi supporter?
Another thing is, the rap bands of those ages (80s) weren't some "Look my phone, how cool is it" kind of junk. They were plain political bands, that is why they are still getting respect from fans of every kind of musical genre.
If you as a die hard GNU/Linux fan or user enough to try getting "Linux" nickname, you shouldn't use that propetioary XBox 360 which is a Microsoft closed source/ closed standards heaven and opt in for a more open, not endorsed by MS device such as Nintendo, Sony (yes, it is OpenGL all over).
You buy their device, try to open an account there giving up your privacy to them and try to get "Linux" nickname.
How heroic is that? I bet webmaster(s) are smiling counting those attempts.
Every multimedia server vendor will reply "Enable DRM" if you come to them with "how to make it extremely hard to rip our content", it is not widely used but Quicktime also has DRM built in for ages.
I am saying "hard" as "Not practical", not impossible of course.
What Youtube does is enabling people post copyrighted content and make money from them without sharing a cent. "Text ads" or "How cool Google is" doesn't matter.
Apple changes from PPC to x86 and suddenly there's no reason to buy them? I use both and *they're exactly the same*, except that the new ones are faster. Of course normal people don't care what the CPU is. As a die hard PPC user (Quad G5) Intel switch gave me hope that Apple will be a LOT popular (happened) and finally companies who can't figure how to code for RISC will manage to ship their titles in OS X native form ending this "endian" issue and hand crafted optimisations nightmare (SSE vs Altivec).
What happened is the Windows applications/games wrapped in OS X.app file begun to ship thanks (!) to Cider including some Adobe apps.
It also amazes me that people who can't put their Mactel laptops on their laps because they get almost burned speaks about how hot PPC G4 was. FSB sucked, Motorola and IBM didn't care, coders couldn't do Altivec but the "heat" was NEVER the issue.
I am following your blog, they say actually secured (e.g. DRM) content can't be ripped and the people from industry should already use a secure media format (doesn't have to be Real) if the content was such precious.
Digging the file from your browser/quicktime/flash cache is already possible and I don't think Youtube will go after them since half of content there are ripped from commercial TV and they make money from it already. What Real does is to make it more practical for average user.
Before Real we should speak about a certain company who advertises their "Pro" version of player when user clicks browser plugins menu to "Save as source" (rip!). They have a file metadata/flag (in spec) to disable that option in plugin but it mysteriously gets ignored. This is going on for years now.
Only because their licensing agreement (or whatever they had) finished, and now they've jumped on the Windows Media Player bandwaggon.
Real streaming stuff is now only used:
* By people who want DRM but want cross platform
* People who don't know about MP3
* Companies who's contracts haven't expired yet. People who don't know about MP3? No, they know but they want to pay for the music they listen. Doesn't iTunes store customers know about mp3 too?
Also Real Server can and does serve WMV. For hugely popular sites it could be the only choice since it runs on Linux and Solaris server farms unlike Windows Media Server. They aren't "forced" to use it, they use it because it suits their needs, e.g. serving thousands.
.NET 1.x (Mono), Silverlight runs on Linux too, we have seen how they abandoned Mono team with Net 2.0 and Silverlight content creation needs Windows developer tools.
Just because it runs on Linux, it doesn't make it actual multi platform. In fact, mono exists on OS X too, just nobody cares. MS wants to trick Linux users another time with a lame port which will be pointless when some "2.0" release with real enhancements ships.
For me, a platform neutral/multi platform thing is real Python framework. I wished they sued them for trademark infringement but sadly I heard it is not copyrighted.
I see they modded me "flamebait", yes I am flamebaiting. I am tired of those fake multi platform tricks of MS and actual developers falling to them. So if MS releases IronPerl next day and put up a tar.gz to their server for claiming it is multi platform, will you believe it? Won't you ask what is the guarantee that it won't turn another Net 1.x stuck Mono?
When I see a program/server released exact same time which makes use of ironpython framework by a valid company, doing real things on OS X/BSD, Linux and Windows, I will apologise saying I was suspicious of MS. For example, Bittorrent makes use of the original language, another example: Azureus, which is Java does amazing advanced things and released exact same time with exact same features on countless platforms (whatever has java 5+).
MS got alerted when open source Windows developers (they exist, very good ones) opted in to sourceforge rather than their own passport needing wannabe site, that is all the point of story.
They both have H264 and VC 1 codec support. I would go with whatever format opts in for H264 which is open, documented standard rather than VC 1 which is another attempt to take over World with failed Windows media with exclusive agreements like this.
WINE is not an emulator, remember? It's a substitute library that handles the win32 calls so in theory it can be faster than Windows itself, as opposed to VMware or Parallels, which waste resources actually emulating virtual hardware. I wonder what will happen if Mactel shares comes to a significant point like 30% and what kind of tricks MS will pull to stop those Mac users running latest/greatest games. If we deal with a billion dollar software giant like EA, a single line in DirectX 11 EULA may be enough.
Doesn't they (MS) already disallow running "home" editions of Windows under virtual environment just with EULA? It doesn't bother you as home user but a business or software giant with army of lawyers will sure care about it.
There is one thing for sure, EA Games runs best under "real" PC running "real" Windows with latest upgrades,updates. I am afraid to check, does the "Mac editions" have the normal (!) "You run a Mac you rich boy" $10 additional price still?
I bought a G5 1600 back in 2003 just because I didn't want to run dual boot Windows or mess with WINE, back to 32bit from 64 bit, back to Wine from real OpenGL games making use of standard frameworks. I am telling you, if MS policy doesn't change significantly, people will run Windows office under OS X just packaged in a HFS+ DVD.
After Macs moved to Intel it is much more significant now. Back in the day, only very large development houses could code both for Windows and Macs because there was also the CPU factor. PowerPC had nothing to do with Intel especially in hand coded acceleration (SSE,Altivec etc.)
Now, Macs are running Intel CPU and they still have very low level framework such as Carbon running underneath. I think multimedia in game may need some Quicktime framework conversion but that is all. I know at least one game from a small software development house coded that way and released for 3 platforms exact same time (since it is kinda War simulation/massive). That game coded by total of 20 guys at most (including artists) have opted in for open technologies such as opengl/openal back in 2001 and it is being released on Win32/Mac PPC/Mac Intel exact same time. They simply avoided these tricks and continue to avoid them thanks to use of OpenGL and OpenAL/Quicktime etc.
The reason that a game is Windows only and not for OS X (without WINE/Cidar) these days, significant part of reason is DirectX now. Unfortunately that WINE compatibility commercial framework saves those directx developers and they now brag about new "Mac releases", old time gamers in Mac scene knows that they will be packaging propetioary Windows game as.app along with directx layer. That is IMHO a huge loss for Linux gaming scene or any OS/Platform having OpenGL and OpenAL capabilities.
I think our hope is _still_ Apple. They proved OpenGL can be used in anything even the average desktop end user/business user may benefit from it. If you see a PPC G3/G4 with 133Mhz FSB doing "Genie effect" etc. tricks, that happens thanks to OpenGL.
Linux/*nix guys seem to follow that attitude, everything I compile these days somehow links to opengl frameworks and makes use of them in real way. E.g. Krita from KDE Office suite.
I remember a very important development house which tends to stay in open frameworks opted in for directaudio in their Windows version just because directaudio has significant hardware acceleration options. This is happening back in very early directx days and I remember they were blamed to "sell out". Of course OpenAL either didn't exist or wasn't that advanced that day. If I remember right, they also used directinput for mouse/joystick for similar reasons.
You are telling they removed hardware acceleration from directsound? For? Are they committing suicide for billion dollar framework? The companies who sells "real sound cards" has a point that sound is the most overlooked thing in performance and how come they allowed MS to do such a stupid thing which makes their $100 hardware not so different from onboard chip?
In fact, what did directaudio developers do to deserve such a punishment from "master"?:)
I know a small software houses game which even Apple stock OpenAL couldn't handle its needs and audio part of its OS X version was converted to CoreAudio resulting 20% peak performance increase. Audio is _that_ important to accelerate.
Well non AC intelligent multiplatform developers like Mr. Carmack posts to slashdot with their own nicks and I have not yet seen they getting bound to MS only technologies or defend them.
Sorry if I respect to multiplatform developers more than Windows only developers who can't code for anything else than Windows or simply sell themselves to MSFT for extra support/publicity from them.
I gave my point to DirectX back in the day when my legally purchased EA games magically (!) refused to work on my legally purchased Windows upgrade. I also gave my point to MS puppet companies like EA that day. I decided not to give a shit to companies who doesn't respect my choice of platform/operating system without a valid reason.
Also about my broken english. At least I have guts to post with my own user id and tell my point without some xenophobic remarks. Some of the libraries you, "super professional windows developer" link against are coded by people who actually has worse english than mine.
I think what you say makes a lot of sense, except the last phrase. If games are easier to write (skipping over the effectiveness/perceived effectiveness of any 'platform'), then there are more people writing games and becoming developers, which would make the game market more competitive, and thusly we would have better games!
I can't see any reason why game development should not be point and click, if they made something like OpenGL easier to write for, I think it would be a positive for the game market, and might bring a viable alternative to Microsoft
Open Standards has some side effects. MS can do everything "click and run" but OpenGL ARB can't do it since it may also end up in some military planes screen. MS can say "Lets drop this, it makes coding complex, nobody would use it in game" but OpenGL can't since it could be in use. Even some high end phones run a stripped version of OpenGL.
I think a developer coding for multiple platforms using open standards must be far more complex/trained/advanced than a guy firing up Visual Studio and run some "Wizards" so he/she actually deserves the extra money. I heard OpenGL is called "expensive" many places so I was trying to explain why.
MS Windows only developers, game developers are already politely bribed by MS. Making OpenGL the easiest to code technology ever won't change their Direct3d obsession or they won't magically ship a native OS X/Linux game as result.
I still wonder what would happen if half of the people monkeying with Wine and breaking 100s of evil MS license terms or dual booting went and bought Linux native games instead.
Loki is dead so we would never know.
I see same attitude on OS X only users, instead of pushing Apple to fix their issues they go and actually purchase Windows XP to run via boot camp. More ammo to Windows/DirectX monopoly which effects everything.
I am just hoping I wouldn't type "xxxx company, the last OS X native game development company is dead so we would never know" 2 years later.
Seriously.. the new iMac is fun to use an you can put behind Microsoft's psychotic mood swings on its standards forever. Actually some games which are announced by Apple after Mactel move are actually Windows games using commercial Wine-like frameworks.
If anything ships saying "Intel Only" , you will get a clue since there are very powerful PPC (e.g. G5 dual core) Macs out there so CPU "speed" can't be an excuse.
As result they are bound to DirectX policies by MSFT. Lets say MS is not happy about exploding Mac/Intel share on market, they could do couple of tricks even on license text so you would say bye to your next Need For Speed version running under OS X because directx 11 may require running under "pure windows"' without "any kind of emulation" . We wouldn't care about it as end users but billion dollar corps like Electronic Arts would sure care.
This is why people should _still_ support OS X native game development using open standards if they dislike MS way of things. That especially includes Linux people. Once a game uses OpenGL and OpenAL, there is a tiny work left to convert it to a true linux game.
No, nothing can be obsolete on open industry standards like OpenGL. At last resort, your OpenGL layer would "software render" the OpenGL 3 content instead of telling GPU to draw it. It would be dead slow but still work. Same goes for backwards compatibility. I actually have a game coded in OpenGL 1.1 ages running on my Quad G5 having OpenGL 2 specs.
Nobody would dare claim "Upgrade your OS so you can run OpenGL 3 on your compliant hardware".
MS spent billions to DirectX and converting some naive/beginner developers exactly for this reason. To control. Companies/Developers like ID Software, Blizzard spent extra millions as an answer. They are using OpenGL and OpenAL not because "they are 133t", they use it to minimise effects of such crap by MS. They don't want MS dictating users which OS to run using their millions of man hours as excuse.
This should be a clue for those.NET and upcoming SilverLight lovers too.
The extra price of OpenGL and OpenAL comes from the fact that they are intended for real developers, not some people pointing and clicking in Visual Studio and claim they are game developers.
Slashdot Mirror
But, if they were to GPL it.....
rhY They won't GPL it, their users, customers (a lot!) and fans are happy with a limited but professional developer community and your slashdot message won't change it.
Opera ALPHA (yes, not even beta) showing blank page:40 MB RAM
Firefox final, stable: 65,2 MB
That Opera figure contains IMAP client, IRC client, News client, full feature RSS and even Bittorrent.
Why change a working thing?
Also Firefox being GPL really doesn't matter to me anymore, they should explain WHY they dropped official support from that IMAP Client, Thunderbird. Some say it has something to do with Google relations and Gmail.
A true open source (along with philosophy and without shadowy agreements) browser these days is Konqueror and nothing else. 99% chance it will work natively on Windows and OS X when KDE 4 releases too.
I'm not expecting them to try Lynx or anything, but at least test Safari on Windows? The one that also claims to be fast? IT media has "Apple Fan" phobia lately. If I was a professional reviewer working for that kind of site, I would ignore Safari.
I have even paid for Webkit based browser (Omniweb) long time ago but it wasn't for the speed. It was how native it works,feels and being coded by professional developers. I never heard anyone other than Apple to advertise how "fast" Safari is. Yes, it will be fast since it uses native system frameworks and developed by professionals. It uses ColorSync, Quartz can even display CYMK jpeg images but for speed? I never got the deal really.
Opera aims at different market -- small gadgets. This is where the speed is really critical. For IE and FF good enough is enough, since performance on modern desktops is not that critical.
Opera aims at different market -- small gadgets. This is where the speed is really critical. For IE and FF good enough is enough, since performance on modern desktops is not that critical.
As a Quad G5 (4x 2500) Mac owner with lots of RAM, I really don't want a browser choking up an entire CPU and flooding my memory. I didn't pay money to cover amateur programming mistakes by other people. As same guy, I flamed Opera guys about not fixing a bug happens on Slashdot beta, first thing I checked was that after getting that awesome 9.5 alpha and yes it is fixed.I have used a Xeon Video workstation lately and poor AVID was acting like it is on 80386 because a stupid "free" antivirus was taking whole CPU cycles trying to "scan" gigabyte level raw videos while it was asked to ignore them.
It is common getting replies as "get more RAM" or "upgrade your CPU" from various browser fans but when I see a browser using 100% CPU , I get alerted about what kind of security issues it may have and why I should be wasting my CPU to it.
Opera's power comes from managing to code and sell full feature browsers which would even run on Nokia 7650 with 2 MB of RAM. Don't let the Desktop versions memory usage fool you, it is mostly RAM Cache, not memory "flood". Instead of flooding memory, they use it for a good reason and release immediately when another app needs it.
http://www.collaboration-world.com/gnumail/
It is in early stages but easily comparable to OS X Mail right now. It does SSL/TLS/IMAP and local mail.
In fact I suggest it because it doesn't have kitchen sink included yet
I use IMAP based mailboxes and like 4-5 different mail clients. I reject anything offering that horrible outdated protocol (pop3) even if it is "free" as Gmail.
. htm#ExternalIMAPVsPOP
I also unsubscribed from "Yahoo Plus" stating they should offer IMAP option for money and give free pop3 to ordinary users.
In fact, in 2007, you should even demand IMAP IDLE extension support with SSL/TLS. Amazing is, they could save huge money/bandwidth if they used IMAP as explained at
http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/faqparts/ExternalMail
They insist on POP3, I heard from a credible postmaster that the main reason is Outlook Express and its horrible IMAP support. I am not sure if it is the deal but if we don't have w3c valid pages and transparent PNG just because IE (pre 7?) didn't support them, it makes sense.
They should find a "MS Open Standard" file, put it to desktop of a modern Linux (or OS X) and tell MS Lawyer,whatever to open it.
There goes open standard. They don't even bother to update their "Word Viewer" anymore or ship it for OS X, the de facto standard in DTP business.
It is not true and I bet it has to do with some idiotic religious fanatics got whole idea of Slayer album which he produced wrong thinking Slayer is endorsing what Germany did in WW 2. They were describing it impersonating the nut jobs who were behind those actions.
http://www.answers.com/topic/reign-in-blood
They were describing the horrible actions. Does Spielberg's movies describing what they did without any kind of censor makes him a nazi supporter?
Another thing is, the rap bands of those ages (80s) weren't some "Look my phone, how cool is it" kind of junk. They were plain political bands, that is why they are still getting respect from fans of every kind of musical genre.
If you as a die hard GNU/Linux fan or user enough to try getting "Linux" nickname, you shouldn't use that propetioary XBox 360 which is a Microsoft closed source/ closed standards heaven and opt in for a more open, not endorsed by MS device such as Nintendo, Sony (yes, it is OpenGL all over).
You buy their device, try to open an account there giving up your privacy to them and try to get "Linux" nickname.
How heroic is that? I bet webmaster(s) are smiling counting those attempts.
Every multimedia server vendor will reply "Enable DRM" if you come to them with "how to make it extremely hard to rip our content", it is not widely used but Quicktime also has DRM built in for ages.
I am saying "hard" as "Not practical", not impossible of course.
What Youtube does is enabling people post copyrighted content and make money from them without sharing a cent. "Text ads" or "How cool Google is" doesn't matter.
What happened is the Windows applications/games wrapped in OS X
It also amazes me that people who can't put their Mactel laptops on their laps because they get almost burned speaks about how hot PPC G4 was. FSB sucked, Motorola and IBM didn't care, coders couldn't do Altivec but the "heat" was NEVER the issue.
"I am following your blog"
is
"I am following THEIR blog" which is at http://realplayer.com/blog/
apologies
I am following your blog, they say actually secured (e.g. DRM) content can't be ripped and the people from industry should already use a secure media format (doesn't have to be Real) if the content was such precious.
Digging the file from your browser/quicktime/flash cache is already possible and I don't think Youtube will go after them since half of content there are ripped from commercial TV and they make money from it already. What Real does is to make it more practical for average user.
Before Real we should speak about a certain company who advertises their "Pro" version of player when user clicks browser plugins menu to "Save as source" (rip!). They have a file metadata/flag (in spec) to disable that option in plugin but it mysteriously gets ignored. This is going on for years now.
Real Networks gives a commercial quality open source media framework and player for free and those stuff you see (e.g. V10/11) are based on that.
https://www.helixcommunity.org/
Don't ask why they do such a favour while people posting outdated information from 1999 exists.
Real streaming stuff is now only used:
* By people who want DRM but want cross platform
* People who don't know about MP3
* Companies who's contracts haven't expired yet. People who don't know about MP3? No, they know but they want to pay for the music they listen. Doesn't iTunes store customers know about mp3 too?
Also Real Server can and does serve WMV. For hugely popular sites it could be the only choice since it runs on Linux and Solaris server farms unlike Windows Media Server. They aren't "forced" to use it, they use it because it suits their needs, e.g. serving thousands.
http://www.realnetworks.com/products/media_delive
.NET 1.x (Mono), Silverlight runs on Linux too, we have seen how they abandoned Mono team with Net 2.0 and Silverlight content creation needs Windows developer tools.
Just because it runs on Linux, it doesn't make it actual multi platform. In fact, mono exists on OS X too, just nobody cares. MS wants to trick Linux users another time with a lame port which will be pointless when some "2.0" release with real enhancements ships.
For me, a platform neutral/multi platform thing is real Python framework. I wished they sued them for trademark infringement but sadly I heard it is not copyrighted.
I see they modded me "flamebait", yes I am flamebaiting. I am tired of those fake multi platform tricks of MS and actual developers falling to them. So if MS releases IronPerl next day and put up a tar.gz to their server for claiming it is multi platform, will you believe it? Won't you ask what is the guarantee that it won't turn another Net 1.x stuck Mono?
When I see a program/server released exact same time which makes use of ironpython framework by a valid company, doing real things on OS X/BSD, Linux and Windows, I will apologise saying I was suspicious of MS. For example, Bittorrent makes use of the original language, another example: Azureus, which is Java does amazing advanced things and released exact same time with exact same features on countless platforms (whatever has java 5+).
MS got alerted when open source Windows developers (they exist, very good ones) opted in to sourceforge rather than their own passport needing wannabe site, that is all the point of story.
Hi,
Ilgaz:~ ilgaz$ python
Python 2.5 (r25:51918, Sep 19 2006, 08:49:13)
Ilgaz:~ ilgaz$ ironpython
-bash: ironpython: command not found
So, it is not multi platform.
Have a nice day
They both have H264 and VC 1 codec support. I would go with whatever format opts in for H264 which is open, documented standard rather than VC 1 which is another attempt to take over World with failed Windows media with exclusive agreements like this.
Doesn't they (MS) already disallow running "home" editions of Windows under virtual environment just with EULA? It doesn't bother you as home user but a business or software giant with army of lawyers will sure care about it.
There is one thing for sure, EA Games runs best under "real" PC running "real" Windows with latest upgrades,updates. I am afraid to check, does the "Mac editions" have the normal (!) "You run a Mac you rich boy" $10 additional price still?
I bought a G5 1600 back in 2003 just because I didn't want to run dual boot Windows or mess with WINE, back to 32bit from 64 bit, back to Wine from real OpenGL games making use of standard frameworks. I am telling you, if MS policy doesn't change significantly, people will run Windows office under OS X just packaged in a HFS+ DVD.
After Macs moved to Intel it is much more significant now. Back in the day, only very large development houses could code both for Windows and Macs because there was also the CPU factor. PowerPC had nothing to do with Intel especially in hand coded acceleration (SSE,Altivec etc.)
.app along with directx layer. That is IMHO a huge loss for Linux gaming scene or any OS/Platform having OpenGL and OpenAL capabilities.
Now, Macs are running Intel CPU and they still have very low level framework such as Carbon running underneath. I think multimedia in game may need some Quicktime framework conversion but that is all. I know at least one game from a small software development house coded that way and released for 3 platforms exact same time (since it is kinda War simulation/massive). That game coded by total of 20 guys at most (including artists) have opted in for open technologies such as opengl/openal back in 2001 and it is being released on Win32/Mac PPC/Mac Intel exact same time. They simply avoided these tricks and continue to avoid them thanks to use of OpenGL and OpenAL/Quicktime etc.
The reason that a game is Windows only and not for OS X (without WINE/Cidar) these days, significant part of reason is DirectX now. Unfortunately that WINE compatibility commercial framework saves those directx developers and they now brag about new "Mac releases", old time gamers in Mac scene knows that they will be packaging propetioary Windows game as
I think our hope is _still_ Apple. They proved OpenGL can be used in anything even the average desktop end user/business user may benefit from it. If you see a PPC G3/G4 with 133Mhz FSB doing "Genie effect" etc. tricks, that happens thanks to OpenGL.
Linux/*nix guys seem to follow that attitude, everything I compile these days somehow links to opengl frameworks and makes use of them in real way. E.g. Krita from KDE Office suite.
I remember a very important development house which tends to stay in open frameworks opted in for directaudio in their Windows version just because directaudio has significant hardware acceleration options. This is happening back in very early directx days and I remember they were blamed to "sell out". Of course OpenAL either didn't exist or wasn't that advanced that day. If I remember right, they also used directinput for mouse/joystick for similar reasons.
:)
You are telling they removed hardware acceleration from directsound? For? Are they committing suicide for billion dollar framework? The companies who sells "real sound cards" has a point that sound is the most overlooked thing in performance and how come they allowed MS to do such a stupid thing which makes their $100 hardware not so different from onboard chip?
In fact, what did directaudio developers do to deserve such a punishment from "master"?
I know a small software houses game which even Apple stock OpenAL couldn't handle its needs and audio part of its OS X version was converted to CoreAudio resulting 20% peak performance increase. Audio is _that_ important to accelerate.
Well non AC intelligent multiplatform developers like Mr. Carmack posts to slashdot with their own nicks and I have not yet seen they getting bound to MS only technologies or defend them.
Sorry if I respect to multiplatform developers more than Windows only developers who can't code for anything else than Windows or simply sell themselves to MSFT for extra support/publicity from them.
I gave my point to DirectX back in the day when my legally purchased EA games magically (!) refused to work on my legally purchased Windows upgrade. I also gave my point to MS puppet companies like EA that day. I decided not to give a shit to companies who doesn't respect my choice of platform/operating system without a valid reason.
Also about my broken english. At least I have guts to post with my own user id and tell my point without some xenophobic remarks. Some of the libraries you, "super professional windows developer" link against are coded by people who actually has worse english than mine.
I think what you say makes a lot of sense, except the last phrase. If games are easier to write (skipping over the effectiveness/perceived effectiveness of any 'platform'), then there are more people writing games and becoming developers, which would make the game market more competitive, and thusly we would have better games!
I can't see any reason why game development should not be point and click, if they made something like OpenGL easier to write for, I think it would be a positive for the game market, and might bring a viable alternative to Microsoft
Open Standards has some side effects. MS can do everything "click and run" but OpenGL ARB can't do it since it may also end up in some military planes screen. MS can say "Lets drop this, it makes coding complex, nobody would use it in game" but OpenGL can't since it could be in use. Even some high end phones run a stripped version of OpenGL.I think a developer coding for multiple platforms using open standards must be far more complex/trained/advanced than a guy firing up Visual Studio and run some "Wizards" so he/she actually deserves the extra money. I heard OpenGL is called "expensive" many places so I was trying to explain why.
MS Windows only developers, game developers are already politely bribed by MS. Making OpenGL the easiest to code technology ever won't change their Direct3d obsession or they won't magically ship a native OS X/Linux game as result.
I still wonder what would happen if half of the people monkeying with Wine and breaking 100s of evil MS license terms or dual booting went and bought Linux native games instead.
Loki is dead so we would never know.
I see same attitude on OS X only users, instead of pushing Apple to fix their issues they go and actually purchase Windows XP to run via boot camp. More ammo to Windows/DirectX monopoly which effects everything.
I am just hoping I wouldn't type "xxxx company, the last OS X native game development company is dead so we would never know" 2 years later.
If anything ships saying "Intel Only" , you will get a clue since there are very powerful PPC (e.g. G5 dual core) Macs out there so CPU "speed" can't be an excuse.
As result they are bound to DirectX policies by MSFT. Lets say MS is not happy about exploding Mac/Intel share on market, they could do couple of tricks even on license text so you would say bye to your next Need For Speed version running under OS X because directx 11 may require running under "pure windows"' without "any kind of emulation" . We wouldn't care about it as end users but billion dollar corps like Electronic Arts would sure care.
This is why people should _still_ support OS X native game development using open standards if they dislike MS way of things. That especially includes Linux people. Once a game uses OpenGL and OpenAL, there is a tiny work left to convert it to a true linux game.
No, nothing can be obsolete on open industry standards like OpenGL. At last resort, your OpenGL layer would "software render" the OpenGL 3 content instead of telling GPU to draw it. It would be dead slow but still work. Same goes for backwards compatibility. I actually have a game coded in OpenGL 1.1 ages running on my Quad G5 having OpenGL 2 specs.
.NET and upcoming SilverLight lovers too.
Nobody would dare claim "Upgrade your OS so you can run OpenGL 3 on your compliant hardware".
MS spent billions to DirectX and converting some naive/beginner developers exactly for this reason. To control. Companies/Developers like ID Software, Blizzard spent extra millions as an answer. They are using OpenGL and OpenAL not because "they are 133t", they use it to minimise effects of such crap by MS. They don't want MS dictating users which OS to run using their millions of man hours as excuse.
This should be a clue for those
The extra price of OpenGL and OpenAL comes from the fact that they are intended for real developers, not some people pointing and clicking in Visual Studio and claim they are game developers.