The federal tax goes directly to the Federal Highway Trust Fund, which was created in 1956 and provides funding to the states for highway and transit projects. Funding, however, is not based on how much tax is collected from a given state, but from a state's "need," which is calculated by several measures, including miles of road and number of licensed drivers. This means that some states are "winners" who receive more than they are taxed, and some are "losers" who receive less.
The federal tax revenue goes into three different federal accounts, $0.001 for each gallon of gasoline or diesel sold goes to the Leaking Underground Storage Tank Fund for the cleanup of leaking underground storage tanks. All other federal gas taxes go to the Highway Trust Fund which divides the revenue into a highway account that gets $0.1544 for each gallon of gasoline and $0.2144 for each gallon of diesel. The mass transit account gets $0.0286 for each gallon of gasoline or diesel sold.
--- end quote..
Also... The united states interstate federal highway system was created to move the military around inside the united states quickly and to increase interstate commerce.
How do you propose to pay for the roads when 30% of the cars and trucks are running on electric or natural gasoline or are getting triple the mileage they did in 1956?
It may be a decade or even two decades but at some point, probably in our lifetimes, the gasoline tax won't be viable any more.
I agree that complicated regulation is a recipe for disaster. But what could be simpler than getting an odometer reading when you get your inspection sticker or your registration sticker?
"You drove 13,000 miles. Your vehicle ways 2300 pounds. Your tax is $125 for two years."
Oh, I wasn't citing them as right. I was citing them as an example of how in a mixed market- consumers use and abuse the retail stores and then buy online for the cheapest price. It's not a sustainable model.
I don't have a preference either way but I recognize the trade off in lower prices vs worse (no) customer service, often reduced selection, and loss of local support if there is a problem.
Just to be clear- that's example of someone who got a bad title and not me.
I've had one lawsuit against a person with no assets. They are basically judgement proof. As the judge said, "I award you $25,000. Good luck on every collecting it."
Yup- I saw wages went from 23 to 43 after I posted this. Which is in line with the cpi calculator.
But, need to be careful of the CPI calculator because they've been messing with it for a while to address Cola increases (esp social security).
For example, the price of gasoline has roughly tripled. The average cost of a new car in 1993 was about $12500. This price will vary depending the make and model of the car. A luxury car cost close to $20000 The average price of a new car in 2013 was $31252. Luxury cars average about $45,000.
Some things have had less inflation (like eggs) but... some of that came from lower quality today ( the egg yolks today are almost white compared to eggs raised the way the used to be raised).
And when my the capacitor in my AC unite blew out after 31 years.. the repair guy said the new one would break within 7 years. In fact, it broke in 2 years when the freon got low.
As for pricing "Half the price" sounded like hyperbole so I checked and...
Best Buy.: Roku 2 $69.99 Best Buy: Roku 3 HD Sale: $89.99
Amazon: Roku 2 $68.00 free Prime Shipping. (this is $1 cheaper) Amazon: Roku 2 $50 + $5 Shipping. (this is $14 cheaper) Amazon: Roku 3 HD $92.99 free PRIME shipping (this is $4 more) Amazon: Roku 3 HD $88 +$5 PRIME shipping = $93. (this is $4 more)
A scan of other products (lego movie $15b vs $15a vs $14(cheapest vendor with shipping thru amazon) finds a similar set of fairly close prices. In some cases Best Buy is cheaper. In some cases one vendor including shipping thru amazon is cheaper than amazon or best buy (Amazon itself is usually about the same price as Best Buy or even higher).
Now- for Best Buy - I have to spend $3 to $6 on gasoline to go to and from the store. For Amazon I have to wait 2-3 days to get the product.
Other than the geek squad, I don't see a reason for the intensity of your anger.
I was looking for a used car, found one one craigslist. Got a cashiers check to pay for it received the car and title payed with the check. Tried to get a temporary tag from the dmv but the car was never registered to the guy i got it from. The title he had was still from where he bought it from someone else. So needless to say i couldn't get the tag. I put a stop payment on the check and just want out of the deal. Now he won't take the keys and title back. What are my options? Am i just out of luck?
But basically, we have different priorities. You feel this isn't stressful. I would find having to validate the title to be stressful.
I know some people say warranties don't make sense. I buy them on my large purchases and have a repair warranty on my house. Insurance *never* makes sense on an individual basis unless you "lose" the gamble.
I've had good luck with warranties. Most have been close to break-even. One was ridiculously profitable for me. So I may like them more than some people.
1993 Average income: 23,132.67 2013 Average income: 44,321.67
Roads and Bridges, like firefighters and law enforcement offers, are a legitimate function of government. Funding for the roads has been cut in half by inflation and the infrastructure is becoming dangerous. Especially bridges.
If the tax had been set at 18%- then it would have scaled with gasoline prices. But with the increasing share of hybrids, much higher mileage of gasoline cars (33mpg vs 28mpg), many more trucks used for shipping (70% more in 2007 than in 1997) (roughly 15 million today vs 4 million in 1993), and now purely electric cars the tax needs to be changed to reflect today's reality.
What we really need is to remove the gasoline tax and replace it with a mileage tax.
I read a lot of 1850's newspapers and it's funny because with the civil war approaching, the voters and legislators then seemed more rational than our voters and legislators today.
You *can't* *have* the roads for *free*. It *costs* money to build and maintain the road system.
I agree that our infrastructure is suffering due to lack of funding. Adjusted for inflation, this tax has lost almost 75% of the purchasing power it had 20 years ago.
On the time thing-- I had a friend who was going to go and spend 3 to 4 hours of his time arguing over the $20 court administration fee on a ticket while everyone was going to get together for gaming.
First, I said "dude, at your salary rate the hours you are spending are ridiculous to the money you might save."
Second, I said, "Tell you what- I'll GIVE you $5 if you just pay the ticket."
And finally, I found the relevant state law section and found that the administrative fee was in the law- AND what the court charged him was probably wrong. The Admin fee for no license sticker is $20-- but the admin fee for no registration sticker is $10. So he had a case for $10 savings.
But the law also said, "the court may forgive the ticket and apply an admin fee of up to $10". Note the "MAY". If he went to argue it- the court could have legally said, "Oh, you are right. But tell you want. You don't have to pay the admin fee at all because we are not going to forgive your ticket."
He paid and I told him he did the right thing instead of taking the opportunity to rag on him. Money spent in the service of a friend's happiness is no vice. Best 5 bucks I've spent this year so far.
Wait until you get a car from a local person that turns out to not have a good title- or was in an accident and reconditioned. Talk about stress.
Plus- I prefer to buy a new car and a car warranty.
As I said above- internet bidding is VERY low stress and laying an 8 year warranty over the top of that erases stress. I keep my cars a long time (or until a high school student totals them from behind).
You send emails to the internet/fleet sales manager and say, "I'm going to buy a new car, Model & Make X with these features. What's your best no negotiation "walkin/drive out" price?" I've done it three times now and it was always wonderfully stress free.
Oh, I thought you were talking about tesla's model to essentially order online and then have it shipped to the customer.
I.e. www.teslamotors.com/own Tesla Motors You don't need to be near a store to order a Tesla - just use the online order form to reserve a Model S or start the Roadster purchasing process.
I have no preference between a manufacturer and a "dealer" in particular running the local location and/or show room. Either way, paying a lease or mortgage on all that land and property tax on it, and inventory tax on the cars, and salaries to employees is going to make a car with a local presence (be it run by a dealer or by the manufacturer) more expensive than one lacking these factors.
I did a lot of retail business with Best Buy from 1996 to at least 2008 and I *never* *ever* got the feeling they were "overpriced" and "sleezy".
They run a 2.55% profit margin and their management is not taking home ridiculously inflated salaries being somewhere around 355th and 452nd in executive compensation salary rankings.
Their prices reflect having local customer service, paying taxes, shipping of products, maintaining inventory and paying inventory tax, paying for air conditioning and heating, and paying rent on the brick and mortar location.
I no longer do business on a regular basis with Best Buy because I stopped buying DVD's when I realized I wasn't rewatching them that often and I've had the same computer, TV, and blue ray players for years.
I did buy my ROKU HD there last year. The price was in line with the rest of the market- a salesperson showed me where they were, asked if I had any questions, and then didn't stay to pester me.
I guess you've had bad experiences with them. That's too bad.
LoL. If the point of negotiating wasn't to save money, he would pay them money to negotiate. It's one of the most entertaining things he can imagine to engage in a long tense negotiation. And that last $17 is the entire point since that is where he breaks them and he wins.
That's terrible. My stepdad used to make $2000 per month back in 1976.
Did a little googling and the "average" seems to vary between $42,000 (glassdoor.com) to $63,800 (wsj.com). I'm betting there are geographical cost of living differences.
He could get the same car I got for $19,000 for $18,673 for four hours of his life. He starts at a higher price- negotiates through the "no haggle price" and that last $17 is at the end.
Plus-- he's not doing it to save money. He's doing it because haggling like that is one of the most entertaining things he can imagine doing. He loves every minute of it. He even haggles for his brother's cars so he can do it more often.
Firstly, I don't think car dealerships should be legally protected. So we are in agreement on this point.
However....
Best Buy should have been perfectly able to function in a mixed market. But instead people use them as a show room- look at the products, and then buy online.
The second is probably a better model. Customers test drive and look at the cars at a dealership and then buy them from the non-dealerships. And then probably try to get support from the dealerships.
The same thing is true for crafting and several other fields. The biggest thing we lose is customer service. Man- you look at the shows from the 50's and customer service levels were 10x what they are now. Department stores literally had an employee at every counter.
By squeezing out the profits- we lose customer service and employment opportunities. It's like the reverse of a virtuous cycle. The end is everything automated and online with very few humans. I don't see what's going to stop it.
A central, local point of contact. A specialist in the legal issues around buying a car. Mechanics trained in a particular brand of car supported by a shop with the proper tools and materials. Live, human customer service. A central, local place to buy accessories for the car. Someone to keep track of maintenance and remind me when it's time so I don't overlook it and damage the car. Someone local to do recall repairs if they are needed. Someone I can trust more than "Rick" at the local garage to have standard pricing. Someone who I can purchase a car warranty from who will honor that car warranty consistently. Someone I can be sure will use legitimate parts to repair my car. (at least for the last 14 years)
Just off the top of my head. Mainly- once I *own* the car, having a dealership gives me peace of mind. And since my buying experience isn't stressful, it's nice to have someone local to see for a couple hours, get all the paper work done, and resolve the multi-thousand dollar transaction in a consistent and safe manner.
Well... listening to the Dennis Miller program ( a notable conservative), he related that some of the native americans who testified at the trial said they found it as offensive as the derogatory term used for blacks which isn't used by non-blacks in polite speech.
So that's pretty offensive. And Dennis felt it was time for use of "redskins" to stop.
And I agree. Who knows-- perhaps in a few years, it will be referred to as the "R-Word".
Reagan was not even REMOTELY fiscally conservative.
And you need only to look at Eric Cantor ("Perfect score by the NRA and anti abortion groups"-- called a RINO by conservative groups) to see Reagan could be considered a RINO today.
Electable in the general election -- probably. Electable in the republican primary today-- not at all certain.
Go to the "internet fleet sales" and get a bid from your local dealers.
For example, I got 19500, 20000, 22000, and 23500.
I went in, did the car deal in 2 hours and I was done.
Could I have gotten the car deal for 19200? Sure. I have a friend who REVELS in doing this. He will spend 3 to 4 hours negotiating with the salesman and then the manager. They think they have him trapped in a room with them-- but actually he has THEM trapped in a room with him. After four hours, he'll still negotiate over the last 12 to 17 bucks. And usually win.
Dealers serve a purpose. They need a reasonable profit.
If you seriously want to buy a car amazon style and not get the support of a dealer then more power to you. You may be like my friend (only in a different way).
Car dealers are just people and they need to earn a living too. And most car sales people earn average or slightly above average incomes.
But seriously "Internet sales" for the win. Get a bid, no negotiating. You walk in and THAT'S the price you will get. No ripoffs... no talking to the manager.
Slashdot Mirror
http://www.wyotax.org/gasoline...
Where do our Federal gasoline taxes go?
The federal tax goes directly to the Federal Highway Trust Fund, which was created in 1956 and provides funding to the states for highway and transit projects. Funding, however, is not based on how much tax is collected from a given state, but from a state's "need," which is calculated by several measures, including miles of road and number of licensed drivers. This means that some states are "winners" who receive more than they are taxed, and some are "losers" who receive less.
The federal tax revenue goes into three different federal accounts, $0.001 for each gallon of gasoline or diesel sold goes to the Leaking Underground Storage Tank Fund for the cleanup of leaking underground storage tanks. All other federal gas taxes go to the Highway Trust Fund which divides the revenue into a highway account that gets $0.1544 for each gallon of gasoline and $0.2144 for each gallon of diesel. The mass transit account gets $0.0286 for each gallon of gasoline or diesel sold.
--- end quote..
Also...
The united states interstate federal highway system was created to move the military around inside the united states quickly and to increase interstate commerce.
How do you propose to pay for the roads when 30% of the cars and trucks are running on electric or natural gasoline or are getting triple the mileage they did in 1956?
It may be a decade or even two decades but at some point, probably in our lifetimes, the gasoline tax won't be viable any more.
I agree that complicated regulation is a recipe for disaster. But what could be simpler than getting an odometer reading when you get your inspection sticker or your registration sticker?
"You drove 13,000 miles. Your vehicle ways 2300 pounds. Your tax is $125 for two years."
Oh, I wasn't citing them as right. I was citing them as an example of how in a mixed market- consumers use and abuse the retail stores and then buy online for the cheapest price. It's not a sustainable model.
I don't have a preference either way but I recognize the trade off in lower prices vs worse (no) customer service, often reduced selection, and loss of local support if there is a problem.
Dude...
You are using inflation adjusted figures for 1993.
Median income in 1993 was $30,210.. which adjusted for inflation is $48,884.
In 1993, the tax was 18.4 cents.. which adjusted for inflation would be 30 cents.
So 12 cents higher. Hmmmm. The math checks.
Just to be clear- that's example of someone who got a bad title and not me.
I've had one lawsuit against a person with no assets. They are basically judgement proof. As the judge said, "I award you $25,000. Good luck on every collecting it."
Yup- I saw wages went from 23 to 43 after I posted this. Which is in line with the cpi calculator.
But, need to be careful of the CPI calculator because they've been messing with it for a while to address Cola increases (esp social security).
For example, the price of gasoline has roughly tripled.
The average cost of a new car in 1993 was about $12500. This price will vary depending the make and model of the car. A luxury car cost close to $20000
The average price of a new car in 2013 was $31252. Luxury cars average about $45,000.
Some things have had less inflation (like eggs) but... some of that came from lower quality today ( the egg yolks today are almost white compared to eggs raised the way the used to be raised).
And when my the capacitor in my AC unite blew out after 31 years.. the repair guy said the new one would break within 7 years. In fact, it broke in 2 years when the freon got low.
I haven't had to deal with the geek squad.
As for pricing "Half the price" sounded like hyperbole so I checked and...
Best Buy.: Roku 2 $69.99
Best Buy: Roku 3 HD Sale: $89.99
Amazon: Roku 2 $68.00 free Prime Shipping. (this is $1 cheaper)
Amazon: Roku 2 $50 + $5 Shipping. (this is $14 cheaper)
Amazon: Roku 3 HD $92.99 free PRIME shipping (this is $4 more)
Amazon: Roku 3 HD $88 +$5 PRIME shipping = $93. (this is $4 more)
A scan of other products (lego movie $15b vs $15a vs $14(cheapest vendor with shipping thru amazon) finds a similar set of fairly close prices. In some cases Best Buy is cheaper. In some cases one vendor including shipping thru amazon is cheaper than amazon or best buy (Amazon itself is usually about the same price as Best Buy or even higher).
Now- for Best Buy - I have to spend $3 to $6 on gasoline to go to and from the store. For Amazon I have to wait 2-3 days to get the product.
Other than the geek squad, I don't see a reason for the intensity of your anger.
It's more likely with private individuals.
For example:
http://forum.freeadvice.com/au...
I was looking for a used car, found one one craigslist. Got a cashiers check to pay for it received the car and title payed with the check. Tried to get a temporary tag from the dmv but the car was never registered to the guy i got it from. The title he had was still from where he bought it from someone else. So needless to say i couldn't get the tag. I put a stop payment on the check and just want out of the deal. Now he won't take the keys and title back. What are my options? Am i just out of luck?
http://www.cnbc.com/id/1012508...
---
But basically, we have different priorities. You feel this isn't stressful. I would find having to validate the title to be stressful.
I know some people say warranties don't make sense. I buy them on my large purchases and have a repair warranty on my house. Insurance *never* makes sense on an individual basis unless you "lose" the gamble.
I've had good luck with warranties. Most have been close to break-even. One was ridiculously profitable for me. So I may like them more than some people.
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/a...
1993 Average income: 23,132.67
2013 Average income: 44,321.67
Roads and Bridges, like firefighters and law enforcement offers, are a legitimate function of government. Funding for the roads has been cut in half by inflation and the infrastructure is becoming dangerous. Especially bridges.
If the tax had been set at 18%- then it would have scaled with gasoline prices. But with the increasing share of hybrids, much higher mileage of gasoline cars (33mpg vs 28mpg), many more trucks used for shipping (70% more in 2007 than in 1997) (roughly 15 million today vs 4 million in 1993), and now purely electric cars the tax needs to be changed to reflect today's reality.
What we really need is to remove the gasoline tax and replace it with a mileage tax.
I read a lot of 1850's newspapers and it's funny because with the civil war approaching, the voters and legislators then seemed more rational than our voters and legislators today.
You *can't* *have* the roads for *free*.
It *costs* money to build and maintain the road system.
Grow up.
I think the tax needs to be a percentage tax.
I agree that our infrastructure is suffering due to lack of funding.
Adjusted for inflation, this tax has lost almost 75% of the purchasing power it had 20 years ago.
Hmm. Mine have been honda dealerships. Perhaps that's the difference?
On the time thing-- I had a friend who was going to go and spend 3 to 4 hours of his time arguing over the $20 court administration fee on a ticket while everyone was going to get together for gaming.
First, I said "dude, at your salary rate the hours you are spending are ridiculous to the money you might save."
Second, I said, "Tell you what- I'll GIVE you $5 if you just pay the ticket."
And finally, I found the relevant state law section and found that the administrative fee was in the law- AND what the court charged him was probably wrong. The Admin fee for no license sticker is $20-- but the admin fee for no registration sticker is $10. So he had a case for $10 savings.
But the law also said, "the court may forgive the ticket and apply an admin fee of up to $10". Note the "MAY". If he went to argue it- the court could have legally said, "Oh, you are right. But tell you want. You don't have to pay the admin fee at all because we are not going to forgive your ticket."
He paid and I told him he did the right thing instead of taking the opportunity to rag on him. Money spent in the service of a friend's happiness is no vice. Best 5 bucks I've spent this year so far.
Wait until you get a car from a local person that turns out to not have a good title- or was in an accident and reconditioned. Talk about stress.
Plus- I prefer to buy a new car and a car warranty.
As I said above- internet bidding is VERY low stress and laying an 8 year warranty over the top of that erases stress. I keep my cars a long time (or until a high school student totals them from behind).
You send emails to the internet/fleet sales manager and say, "I'm going to buy a new car, Model & Make X with these features. What's your best no negotiation "walkin/drive out" price?" I've done it three times now and it was always wonderfully stress free.
Oh, I thought you were talking about tesla's model to essentially order online and then have it shipped to the customer.
I.e.
www.teslamotors.com/own
Tesla Motors
You don't need to be near a store to order a Tesla - just use the online order form to reserve a Model S or start the Roadster purchasing process.
I have no preference between a manufacturer and a "dealer" in particular running the local location and/or show room. Either way, paying a lease or mortgage on all that land and property tax on it, and inventory tax on the cars, and salaries to employees is going to make a car with a local presence (be it run by a dealer or by the manufacturer) more expensive than one lacking these factors.
I did a lot of retail business with Best Buy from 1996 to at least 2008 and I *never* *ever* got the feeling they were "overpriced" and "sleezy".
They run a 2.55% profit margin and their management is not taking home ridiculously inflated salaries being somewhere around 355th and 452nd in executive compensation salary rankings.
Their prices reflect having local customer service, paying taxes, shipping of products, maintaining inventory and paying inventory tax, paying for air conditioning and heating, and paying rent on the brick and mortar location.
I no longer do business on a regular basis with Best Buy because I stopped buying DVD's when I realized I wasn't rewatching them that often and I've had the same computer, TV, and blue ray players for years.
I did buy my ROKU HD there last year. The price was in line with the rest of the market- a salesperson showed me where they were, asked if I had any questions, and then didn't stay to pester me.
I guess you've had bad experiences with them. That's too bad.
LoL. If the point of negotiating wasn't to save money, he would pay them money to negotiate. It's one of the most entertaining things he can imagine to engage in a long tense negotiation. And that last $17 is the entire point since that is where he breaks them and he wins.
That's terrible. My stepdad used to make $2000 per month back in 1976.
Did a little googling and the "average" seems to vary between $42,000 (glassdoor.com) to $63,800 (wsj.com). I'm betting there are geographical cost of living differences.
Lol-- not quite.
He could get the same car I got for $19,000 for $18,673 for four hours of his life.
He starts at a higher price- negotiates through the "no haggle price" and that last $17 is at the end.
Plus-- he's not doing it to save money. He's doing it because haggling like that is one of the most entertaining things he can imagine doing. He loves every minute of it. He even haggles for his brother's cars so he can do it more often.
Firstly, I don't think car dealerships should be legally protected. So we are in agreement on this point.
However....
Best Buy should have been perfectly able to function in a mixed market. But instead people use them as a show room- look at the products, and then buy online.
The second is probably a better model. Customers test drive and look at the cars at a dealership and then buy them from the non-dealerships. And then probably try to get support from the dealerships.
The same thing is true for crafting and several other fields. The biggest thing we lose is customer service. Man- you look at the shows from the 50's and customer service levels were 10x what they are now. Department stores literally had an employee at every counter.
By squeezing out the profits- we lose customer service and employment opportunities. It's like the reverse of a virtuous cycle. The end is everything automated and online with very few humans. I don't see what's going to stop it.
A central, local point of contact.
A specialist in the legal issues around buying a car.
Mechanics trained in a particular brand of car supported by a shop with the proper tools and materials.
Live, human customer service.
A central, local place to buy accessories for the car.
Someone to keep track of maintenance and remind me when it's time so I don't overlook it and damage the car.
Someone local to do recall repairs if they are needed.
Someone I can trust more than "Rick" at the local garage to have standard pricing.
Someone who I can purchase a car warranty from who will honor that car warranty consistently.
Someone I can be sure will use legitimate parts to repair my car. (at least for the last 14 years)
Just off the top of my head.
Mainly- once I *own* the car, having a dealership gives me peace of mind.
And since my buying experience isn't stressful, it's nice to have someone local to see for a couple hours, get all the paper work done, and resolve the multi-thousand dollar transaction in a consistent and safe manner.
Well... listening to the Dennis Miller program ( a notable conservative), he related that some of the native americans who testified at the trial said they found it as offensive as the derogatory term used for blacks which isn't used by non-blacks in polite speech.
So that's pretty offensive. And Dennis felt it was time for use of "redskins" to stop.
And I agree. Who knows-- perhaps in a few years, it will be referred to as the "R-Word".
Reagan was not even REMOTELY fiscally conservative.
And you need only to look at Eric Cantor ("Perfect score by the NRA and anti abortion groups"-- called a RINO by conservative groups) to see Reagan could be considered a RINO today.
Electable in the general election -- probably.
Electable in the republican primary today-- not at all certain.
Wow! Bonus!
A 5 mod post and a 0 mod post in the same thread!
Achievement unlocked!
What terrible, flamish, trollish post did I must have made to rate a 0?
Or perhaps it was just groupthink and shutting up a reasonable opinion someone didn't want to hear.
I reveal my Inmost Self unto my God
Look.
Go to the "internet fleet sales" and get a bid from your local dealers.
For example, I got 19500, 20000, 22000, and 23500.
I went in, did the car deal in 2 hours and I was done.
Could I have gotten the car deal for 19200? Sure. I have a friend who REVELS in doing this. He will spend 3 to 4 hours negotiating with the salesman and then the manager. They think they have him trapped in a room with them-- but actually he has THEM trapped in a room with him. After four hours, he'll still negotiate over the last 12 to 17 bucks. And usually win.
Dealers serve a purpose. They need a reasonable profit.
If you seriously want to buy a car amazon style and not get the support of a dealer then more power to you. You may be like my friend (only in a different way).
Car dealers are just people and they need to earn a living too. And most car sales people earn average or slightly above average incomes.
But seriously "Internet sales" for the win. Get a bid, no negotiating. You walk in and THAT'S the price you will get. No ripoffs... no talking to the manager.