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NADA Is Terrified of Tesla
cartechboy writes It's no secret that the National Automobile Dealers Association has been trying to block Tesla from selling cars directly from consumers, but to date, it has been defeated countless times in many states. Now NADA put out a release and promotional video touting the benefits of dealer franchises, something Tesla has shunned. NADA mentions price competition, consumer safety, local economic benefits, and added value.
While possibly true, it's complete speculation to tie this to Tesla.
But hey, Tesla gets page views.
I can understand the admiration for the technology and the hope it gives to some here but we're really analyzing the comings and goings of the NADA over this? WTF is next?
If this was anyone but Tesla it'd be a total non-starter.
There will always be a need for car dealerships, but there is no good reason to ban direct sales. This is pure rent-seeking behavior. The dealerships should position themselves as Tesla's partners in buying/selling used Teslas and in repairs.
Wow, local dealerships sound AWESOME!
So far it seems that NADA has happen.
I'd be afraid of consumers selling tesla too. Be afraid of the used car market! /s
Not specifically Tesla, but electric cars don't have alot of things that car dealers make money with (oil changes, engine work, transmission work and on and on). Alot of dealerships make much of their profits from such things, so what Tesla represents is scary change - of course that change is coming whether driven by Tesla or someone else.
So the dealers have alot of money, alot of friends and will do what they can to gum up the works for (or kill) Tesla and what it represents if they can. JMHO...
They are great, they protect the consumer, ensure fair prices, charge fair prices for repairs, ensure you don't get ripped off, the list goes on! Good for them, Tesla deserves a beat down for trying to get rid of these middle men.
Oh, jk.
"The current franchised new-car dealer model has benefited consumers, manufacturers and local communities for nearly a century"
Said nobody ever.
The margins for dealer sold cars are HUGE, thousands and thousands of dollars in commission for the better sales guys per car. Now imagine if Tesla ruined that market made cars cheaper for everybody.. of course these guys are scared of Tesla, if they are a success doing this nobody will want to use a dealer and the price of all cars will go down so they lose out on that margin.
They forgot to mention the free leg massages from leg-humping auto salesmen.
The problem is that dealer are just so so so terrible to 'deal' with.
Who here has actually had a 'good' experience when buying a car from a dealer?
What I want:
1) Buy online
2) pay the _advertised_ price. Not hundreds(thousands) more
3) pay by credit card / direct deposit / or bitcoin!
4) next day delivery - on the back of a truck - dumped off on my driveway, nice and clean, brand-spanking-new within 24 hrs.
Imagine being the marketing team that had to make car dealers seem like a good thing to have!
Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
Cool science fiction opportunity here is that when we colonize Mars we get to have a Mars vs Earth civil war. My bet is on Mars winning. Time for a hollywood movie deal!!
Another multiverse version of Elon Musk develops a slew of super-viruses under his manufacturing plants in a deep-core Earth super lab. His 2020-ish journey to Mars assembles a team of top candidates for population of Mars now that he has perfected his global terraforming technology. Musk detonates super-virus technology as soon as his crew is safely on Mars. Earth is utterly destroyed and unable to support any life for 300yrs. Musk's new colony thrives in a totally Utopian society with their own laws where each citizen is given enough food and shelter to survive and they can earn the ability to undertake scientific projects that will benefit the colony.
Colonial Mars expands to other planets with the Utopian political system essentially consisting of a Technocracy. Greed and religion are outlawed punishable by death. No person is in charge. Robots are programmed to rule.
Twenty thousand years later Muskites are still populating the universe and expand into super beings. Eventually they are contacted by the Provost Utermina, a group of billion year old beings, evolved from non-carbon life forms, societally grouped into inhabiting several connected and infinite multiverses, also founded upon unwaivering Technocratic principles of kindness, alleviation of suffering and the expansion of consciousness, knowledge and wisdom.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Never has an acronym been more apt.
'Everyone' hates the car dealership, and I do too. But, in my recent, personal experience, they have provided me the benefit of price competition. I needed to lease a car and found the lowest price I could find. I then simply called the 'Internet Department' at each of the local dealerships for this particular model, and just asked if they could beat that price. One guy said he could, and I went to him. I don't know if this is possible with purchasing a Tesla. Can different dealerships set their own prices, or, since the dealership is the manufacturer, is the price the same across any 'dealership' within a given geographical area?
NADA mentions price competition, consumer safety, local economic benefits, and added value.
Yes, the "added value" of $500 for a $2 3M spray on the seats, and $1500 for an underbody treatment that often isn't even applied.
Yes, those dealers sure know how to extract value. I almost bought a Toyota once. But I couldn't get one that didn't have $5000 or more of unwanted markup for such scams. Gulf States Toyota Distributors should have been taken down for fraud and such. But NADA and others support such unethical and borderline illegal practices. And demonize Tesla.
Learn to love Alaska
Isn't price competition based on who has the lowest dealer markup?
Doesn't eliminating the dealer franchise also eliminate dealer markup?
Wouldn't we all be buying the same wholesale price?
That being the case, how is price competition (in this case!) a good thing?
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
"Not specifically Tesla, but electric cars don't have alot of things that car dealers make money"
Electric cars need tires. Electric cars need brakes. Electric cars will have safety recalls. Electric cars can be in accidents. Electric cars can be broken into.
I don't claim to know much about electric cars, but if it has moving parts it will be need to be serviced at some point.
I don't think you thought your post through.
Priest: "Universe from nothing, no laws of physics, sped up time"+ huge discrepancies. Creationism? No. Big Bang Theory
but I would love their business model to be used by all auto manufacturers.
tesla will be something when it can go coast to coast down back roads w/o fear of where we gonna charge this at right now its a cod peice for people who have a range rover or benz setting next to it in the driveway
PDF.js is being dog slow at rendering the PDF. So first I had a look at the article on The Car Connection. "Fiercely compete for your business" just means that Chevy, Ford, and the like have failed to compete with Tesla. "Create good-paying local jobs" sounds like a broken window fallacy. "and significant tax revenue for local communities" is true whether or not the factory owns the dealer, as the local branch of a factory-owned dealer likewise pays property, income, and sales tax. "If automakers themselves were in charge of repairs...well, we don't want to cast aspersions, but it would be easy to see the incentive to cut corners." Still, this would hurt only Tesla. If NADA thinks Tesla would be willing to kill its own brand, let it.
Once the "Fact Sheet" finally rendered, nothing I wrote above was invalidated. Plus: "profits generated by factory-owned dealerships flow up a vertical ladder to out-of-state shareholders." So do the profits of the factory itself, no matter who owns the dealer. "Local dealers will be there for consumers in good times and bad." I've seen local dealers close up shop. "A new-car dealer serves a consumer for the entire ownership experience." Just as true of factory-owned dealers.
..in the traditional sales system is not a thing that most people enjoy
Some people falsely believe they are "players" but they still get screwed
Most people are "sheep" and they get screwed faster and harder
I am not a master negotiator..I just want a car at a fair price
I always feel like a lamb in a roomful of tigers when I deal with a traditional car dealer
I'm a really good engineer, and I have many other talents..but cutthroat negotiation is not one of them
I really, really want a better system
OK, lots of people think we should ban car dealers, and let auto makers sell directly to consumers. If that's the case, do you really think we'd be better off if GM sold cars directly? If you didn't have a local dealer to go to for a recall fix, how well do you think GM would handle it from a centralized facility? At least as well as they did the original ignition switch design?
Won't there still be a need for dealers, and aren't all the video's arguments still valid, for used cars?
But everyone knows what that conveys, even the dealers themselves:
Of course, this divides ranks with the dealership community itself, as the old guys close to retirement are going to continuing milking their cash cow by any means available, as the younger guys start to worry about their long term futures when the backlash strikes, which the old guys are doing nothing whatsoever to abate sooner rather than later.
They say that society is "only" three square meals from anarchy. That's a lot, actually. I estimate that the fraternal order of the car dealership is only two snifters of brandy and one Cuban cigar's worth of suggested forbearance away from king-sized flop house crossfire.
Because the world is out to get Tesla, and only Tesla.... and Tesla is our savior.
Car dealerships have got to be about the worst consumer facing industry there is.
Most of the 'local' revenue is from fleecing other locals with borderline (and some not so borderline) scams. I'm amazed there's not some big undercover expose showing all the crap they do on a regular basis. (Maybe there is and I just haven't seen one... ?)
Die already.
If they somehow magically pulled a 180 on the entrenched shitbaggery that permeates that whole industry and turned into normal retail sales outlets maybe I'd start to listen to whatever the hell they're saying here.
(I guess I should disclose I've got some Tesla stock, but that has zero bearing on my opinion of car dealers)
I think the NADA is wasting their time, if they are indeed "scared" of Tesla, or even really actively fighting Tesla. The number of people currently buying a Tesla is so insignificant compared to regular car sales, that the NADA has nothing to worry about for at least another 5 years (which is when all-electric vehicles hopefully become cheap enough to actually compete, price wise, with gas fueled vehicles).
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain... time... to... die...
In many communities you will find that the major dealers for a given brand are owned by the same family. So you cross town for a better price and oddly enough it is identical.
...I love it. There are Nissan (at least) dealers hereabouts who have occasionally priced cars over MSRP. Now that may be annoying, but it's basically legitimate, considering that "suggested" means just that. I can understand a dealer saying "We're charging you over MSRP because we can, so take it or leave it".
But these guys take it to a different level. The window sticker lists the MSRP and all the usual add-ons, and then an entry that says "[Dealername] Added Value $500". It doesn't include any of the silly crap like Scotchgarding the seats -- those are saved for the sales manager to try to force on you.
If they had a real brain, they would approach Tesla to see about getting frame with drive train. In doing that, they could put their own body on it and start their own companies. From there, down the road, they could switch from dealer, to auto makers.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Let's get rid of realtors next. Another bunch of useless parasites.
Mostly random stuff.
Of course there really isn't a free market, the car dealership requirement is just one example.
People always seem to jump right to new car dealerships when this is brought up when the reason most of these laws exist is because of predatory used car dealers.
Dealerships losing government supported business model.
GM management wanted the closures, not the government because their business DID NOT SUPPORT all of the extra dealers. GM's sales were down to almost half of what they were and they still had almost all of the dealers. They definitely needed to downsize the network.
Basically you made the whole political angle up to serve your petty DEM vs REP crap.
they mean who can sell it as high as possible overtop of the dealer price.
How there can be laws to prevent you from selling to an individual in any industry. I know they were purchased, but still how can a law like this ever get passed with out SOMEONE getting in its way?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Comcast
Time Warner
Microsoft
AT&T
Sprint
Verizon
Patent trolls
MPAA
RIAA
"touting the benefits of dealer franchises"
Then let them compete with other sales methodologies in a free market basis. Creating an artificial market environment usually only exists to maintain an unsustainable market for a select group of people who have influence with those in power.
You placed your period outside of the quotation marks. Alot of people type words this way now, so it's common usage, but it isn't officially recognized. -10 points
When you place a phrase inside commas as you did, it must make sense if it were to be removed. "In this case as in many" does not make sense. -10
The next sentence is 52 word run-on sentence. -10
You NEVER start a sentence with a conjunction. -10
Incorrect semicolon usage. This required an em-dash. -10
Your final grammar Nazi score is: 50%. That's an "F" grade in case you forgot. It should be lower, really, since that run-on sentence made my head hurt. 52 words is quite a feat. I'm feeling generous today so I just knocked the standard 10 points off.
By the way, you are the blackest fucking kettle I have ever seen!
You know the smallest of details about Harry Potter, but I bet you couldn't tell me who the 7th US President is or who your own House members are. I just have to point this out because I'm an asshole and I hate Harry fucking Potter with a passion. TOLKEIN OR DIE BITCHES!
Price Competition - Meaning Dealer Gouging.
Consumer Safety - Like with all the GM Recalls?
Local Economic Benefits - I can't think of one.
Added Value - See Item #1
There is a reason dealerships are popularly referred to as stealer-ships. While people there are trying to make money, the selling practices are universally despised and not liked by many. As such, I say that we should welcome Tesla and all other manufacturers. The more the merrier. Dealerships are welcome to compete with the quality of their service in free market
https://translate.google.ca/#e...
Countless times? I can think of one case in New Jersey and I thought it was pending.
Most things are not sold directly by the manufacturer but by retailers. The variety of things that can be bought is too large to have a seperate store for each manufacturer out there, its nice to have product catagories in one place. With smaller objects of lower value, it seems this is strongly preferred. Cars are a very large, expensive item so there is more of a tendancy to have stores that specialize in just them. This sort of reduces the natural retailer/manufacturer seperation.
The fact is dealers do provide added value, however. The value comes from of course, the lot, of being able to actually see a car before you buy it. The cost of running this will be there whether the manufacturer runs the lot, or whether an independent dealer does. The market does operate to regulate prices for dealers, since its a part of the car price, it can be argued that having independent dealers may give people more choice regarding who has a more efficient lot operation.
Many aspects of the dealership people find unpleasant will still be there with a manufacturer run dealership. One of them is the credit checks for the loans. Bargaining is not necessarily exclusive to independent dealers but could also occur at a manufacturer dealer. A lot of the qualities of the independent dealer will still be there with a manufacturer dealer, therefore. Since you have no choice of dealers to work with, it could even be worse.
Maybe people should have the option of a direct buy from a manufacturer, but, a manufacturer locking out independant dealers from providing an alternative is also not a great idea. The vertical integration could be anti-competive and lead to overly monopolistic qualities.
Distributes, dealers and other middlemen are are often subject to rather mindless criticism. Middlemen serve a real economic need which is why so many industries make use of them. Here's a few
Dealers have more flexible terms and conditions like trade ins, extended warranties, custom options, etc.
Dealers support a market in used cars.
Dealers stock product.
Dealers reduce sales fluctuations for manufacturers.
You may have more leverage in a dispute situation.
etc...
Tesla is a niche product and hardly a threat to auto dealers so and the only reason NADA objects is their PR flacks have to justify inflated salaries.
your local automobile dealer. bringing you higher prices, fake smiles, and broken promises.
To be NADA.
Just like the rest of the auto makers. Don't forget Tucker.
I'm here for the experience, not the Hyperbole.
But they suck it every day, just the same.
How does that Musk cock taste, Slashdot editors ? Does it taste better than the pustule-ridden
HIV-inflamed nigger cock you usually suck ?
In the last few weeks taxi drivers are in a fuss over technology possibly eliminating their trade. Now we see car dealerships in a hissy over the potential elimination of their livelihoods. I can recall when movie theaters were in a state claiming that cable TV would ruin the theater industry which really did occur. Taxi drivers will not get much public sympathy as they are not powerful nor particularly well liked. The car dealers will shrivel up much more slowly as they have money and a bit of status as well as a public that is slow to adopt new products. But the fact is that the Tesla vehicles simply will not need mechanics. Swapping out a battery pack or an electric motor can be done by any small shop. Glass is already normally handled outside of dealerships as is paint and body and half the garages already provide break maintenance. Brokers can handle the sales unless Tesla sells directly to the public so what is there for a dealer to do? Frankly as each trade falls away we will see protests and warnings of dire consequences. The trucking industry will soon fall to robotics and perhaps the commercial airlines as well. The construction trade is in serious danger as 3D printing can build superior homes. I'll bet money that 3D printed boats start to appear soon. I know that one canoe was already built as an experiment. The books about Future Shock were pretty much dead on target.
Seriously.
The auto industry has had pretty much unlimited rein to revolutionize themselves for the last 70+ years (Tucker Preston, ring a bell?). But they, and their predatory salesforce, have turned up their noses and outright torpedoed each and every opportunity to do so. All so they can give us pathetically miniscule changes on a yearly basis and charge us ever greater sums of money to do so.
Fuck them and the buggy their rode in on.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
"Car dealers are SCUM. They are leaches. Their goal is nothing but to separate you from as much money as they can."
There is a Toyota dealer that is so hostile even calling to ask a question gets an unpleasant response.
I found the cheapest honda in 500 miles up the road and it was the end of the month. I talked them down and then popped out a web coupon for $500 off. They made me sit and then set over a guy that I never spoke to before to talk me down. He said that I had to pay $100 more in order for the deal to go through. I asked if $100 was worth me leaving and he said that it was the only way. Thanks!
Mod Fuzzy Fuzzy Fungus up! He is an excellent fungus.
... [is] about as far in the 'secret knowledge' direction as anybody in the business..."
Quoting: "Tesla
I've never had a decent car buying experience and no I never was able to get a "killer deal" on a vehicle purchase.
Well not even a half way decent deal either.
In the future i'll use a broker from now on.
If Tesla is forced to run through a dealership I better have to visit a dealership to buy a loaf of bread!
Don't go partial stupid, go FULL Stupid!
Most dealers are scum. This is why I bought a Dacia: they don't negotiate on price. Only time I've not felt ripped off buying a car.
"trying to block Tesla from selling cars directly from consumers,"
Directly TO consumers, you mean...
Even with less mechanical stuff to break, I'm sure the usual malfunctions can occur.
Lacking a dealership, how do you get things fixed on a Tesla? Does some guy come to your house?
That just means people won't buy GM again. No biggie. There are other car makers. I don't see why you can't have both dealers AND direct from factory orders. There are many products you can buy directly from manufacturers (or, mmm, brand owners) webpage, or you can walk into a store and get it from there. If someone prefers to have the dealer as a backup plan if something goes wrong let them. This would force dealers to actually add some value to the deal to justify the higher price. This would also neatly tell the real bottom price to people. I'm sure manufacturers would still give wholesale price to dealers who can order 100 cars in one go, as it does cost something to the manufacturer to clean up, finish, package and deliver the cars.
A popular dealer in Connecticut bought a house for $1.5 million and tore it down to build his dream house. Which has a $20K cupola on it.
Ya, I definitely get good deals when buying my cars! Anyone want to explain why they bill mechanics out at $90/hour?
That isn't to say Tesla will solve all these problems (I'd be especially worried about the cost of servicing what's essentially a computer on wheels), but at least they charge a price and you know what you're getting. No negotiations. No oily salesman pitching stuff you don't need.
Tell me again how removing the plastic seat covers and washing the car is worth the $600.00 dealer fee. Remind me how having to haggle over price for an hour or more so I don't get cheated is a good thing..
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
"National Automobile Dealers Association has been trying to block Tesla from selling cars directly from consumers".
Perhaps they can get around that by selling cars directly TO consumers.
there is really no reason for tesla(or any car manufacturer) to sell to dealerships if they care about the consumer. in most cases, the manufacturers make x copies and sell them all to the dealerships. they dont really care if the end user likes them or even buys them because theyve already made their money.
in the best case scenario, everyone buys every car... but it costs the end user 10-20% more than the cars cost the dealerships. if tesla cuts out the middle man, they can charge the normal dealership price, but for everyone and still make the same profit.(this also makes their cars cheaper than the competition).
dealerships are outdated and are in need of destruction.
The UAW wants Tesla to join their union. And NADA wants Tesla to join their union. Tesla doesn't want to play ball. So the unions are flexing it's muscle to make Teslas join their unions. Really guys, it's that simple. It has nothing to do with the fact their car is electric. Seriously, just google for `tesla car union` and you'll find stories about the UAW. http://insideevs.com/uaw-looks... http://www.teslamotors.com/sv_...
Inernal combustion vs. electric motor. The electric motor just runs. Internal combustion engines need maintenance. That is why the dealership exists. Remember those ink-jet printers you could buy for a hundred bucks and then pay close to that for a thimble-full of ink? Internal combustion vehicles have become more dependable over the years, but they will never beat the electric motor for reliability. Which car manufacturer was featured in a movie about killing something years ago? It name has two letters and it is involved in an extended recall mess...
Thank you for pointing out something totally trivial criticizing the cancer of slashdot: interesting articles related to important technological and political matters. We really needed a hero to save us from the truth, or we might make more theories than our small intellects can cope with.
But hey, if fallacies like this work in courts, they must also give great comment points here.
And you probably also helped your local fire department and schools by lobbying for a group of people who is socially accepted to be pathologically inclined to scam you. Because, unlike the video says, competition-pricing only works when people have full disclosure of a specific product condition, which is impossible in new and "previously-owned" cars. Not even the dealer knows what went on during the shelf and road life of a car. At least factories are sure to have better information than someone whose only job is to market (read: pitch) an insecure commodity at an inflated AND ____commissioned____ price.
One thing I object to in particular about dealers lately is that rarely can I find a part at the dealer's parts counter. They have to retrieve it from an area warehouse. They still charge outrageous prices for parts, as if they were trying to cover the cost of inventory, but they're not bearing the cost of inventory anymore. One area warehouse bears lower inventory costs than multiple dealers, and dealers still apply high markups to parts they get from the warehouses anyway. So I have to wait a day for something common to many models that should be sitting on the dealer's shelf. In that case, there's no reason I shouldn't be able to order it myself and pay a price that doesn't include dealer markup. Another thing is the pile of annoying add-on charges that aren't included in their quote for repair cost. "Shop fee", "environmental fee", etc. You and I and repair shops in the past would include the paper towels and garbage collection in overhead. Recyclables such as used motor oil and batteries are mostly break-even, as they have some residual value that the shops can collect or at least it reduces the cost of "disposal".
I wouldn't be surprised if dealers are upset that direct parts sales threatens them more than direct car sales.
Someday all our cars will be bought like everything else. Off the internet. And from China.
Sped along by the greed of the US car companies, unions, and dealers.
Dealers buy cars from manufacturers, and have certain contractual obligations to do so. This allows the manufacturers to level out their production and offload inventory risk to the dealers. Dealers have been very good for manufacturers for a long time. In early years of car sales, manufacturers believed that an independent dealer (who is carrying the inventory risk and is highly motivated to sell cars) was more likely to sell inventory than an employee of the manufacturer sitting in a company-owned store. Manufacturers *want* independent dealerships.
And not everyone wants to specify their next new car and then wait months for it to be built and delivered.
Every other retail seller--like Amazon--is also a middleman, just like car dealers. Sure middleman profits increase overall costs, but they provide selection, one stop shopping, etc. that would be impossible if I had to go to a manufacturers outlet for each different item purchased.
Not a fan of car dealers and their tactics, mind you, but they do serve a purpose.
The true price is a number that both parties agree upon. For a seller, of anything, it is in their best interest to sell at as high a price as they can without alienating customers. For a buyer, it is in their best interest to pay as little as they can. For any item being bought/sold, there exists a range of numbers at which both parties find the price to by acceptable and the transaction made.
In a haggling situation, it is not uncommon to hear something like this *after* the sale of say a $100 marked item: "$75 was a good price for me, I was really willing to pay up to $85. Oh yeah, I'd've sold it to you for $65". Obviously the sale could have been done at anywhere between $65 and $85 and both parties got what they wanted, albeit with less satisfaction for the seller at a lower price and less satisfaction for the buyer at a higher price.
There is no one true price for anything.
I've haggled at Best Buy. I've haggled at furniture stores. Generally the higher the price of an item, the more likely it is that there is room to get a lower price or a better deal somehow. What you see at McDs and other places is simply an increased willingness to trade low-cost items in volume sales against the potential inefficiencies of higher markup that can lead to haggling situations. But you have no idea what McD's markup is, do you?
Dealerships know that a significant portion of their customers are predisposed to car less about overall costs than the monthly payment. They know that they can only afford $300/month payment, so a deal that gets them a lower overall price but monthly payments of $350 will be rejected.
When you walk into a dealership and say "I'm going to pay cash for a car today if you can give me what I want at a price I find reasonable. And I've done my homework, so I have a particular number in mind. I've also checked your inventory online this morning and know you have a car matching my specs on your lot right now." you find that a lot of the rigmarole goes away.
P.S. I got the car I wanted at about $100 more than the rock-bottom price I went in with plus 0% three-year financing so I could keep my cash longer. Also got free normal service (oil changes, etc.) for three years, have had two such appointments so far with pleasant waiting room, etc. Plus they wash the car after they service it.
Tesla is tiny and relatively speaking will be insignificant for decades. But if Tesla breaks the dealer mandatory requirement then the door is open for those companies that have the money, management and distribution to impact the auto sale market. And that company is WalMart. If the option for direct sales of cars was available to WalMart, they could take 10 to 20 percent of the USA market in 5 or so years. And double the size of WalMart (sales and profits). Banking and cars are the two domestic areas of opportunity for WalMart that have the size to be impactful for them. NADA knows where the problem is and knows that they will eventually lose...but delay can be an effective strategy and that is the plan.
GM management that was under the thumb of President Obama. GM management didn't want to shut down the Pontiac division, but the order came down from the White House: terminate Pontiac or you get no bailout. Every detail of the bailout was dictated. Your assertion is so ludicrous it's basically a bald-faced lie. How many other areas have we seen the overreach of this petty vindictive man? Scores of high ranking Pentagon officers forced into retirement because they don't agree with the Democrat party. The IRS scandal, all about the White House using the IRS to silence opposing political speech, is a currently running thread here on Slashdot.
John McCain told the nation back in 2008 that Obama was the most left-wing extremist in Congress, and so how could a President Obama be expected to deal constructively with the opposing party? It's a prediction that has become catastrophically true in so many appalling ways.
"This is simply not true for the vast majority of retail situations. In almost all cases there is a sticker price that is what you pay. You can easily compare different stores for price and choose the cheapest, or accept a higher price because you prefer the store for some reason."
All that you have going here is that the sticker price is almost always *already* in the range both parties are willing to accept, so there's a much smaller incentive to work to get a lower price as a buyer or a higher price as a seller. That sticker price is offered *because* it almost always avoids haggling, which is important in high volume situations.
As for not caring about McD's prices, that's probably because you understand at some level that McDs is probably not a high markup situation, where volume is preferred over optimizing per-customer pricing. And you probably have an understanding of the price of the raw materials and labor: you know you could go the store, buy ground meat, buns, condiments, and make your own burger for less, but not *that* much less. And again, the sticker price falls within your tolerance level. If McD's started selling a Big Mac for $22 sticker price, you probably would be unwilling to buy it even though the price is "transparent" what with being right there on the big board and all and with store personnel absolutely unwilling to sell for less.
it's not absurd to suggest that dealer networks add value. the question is, for whom? not the consumer, generally.
http://drteknikal.blogspot.com/
The thing to always remember is that they want to sell you a car. Do your research. Never buy a car on impulse the day you go to look at it. Tell them you want to shop around. If they pressure you don't give in. They'll try and say stuff like "this price is good for today only". Tell them to get real and shop around. Get the wholesale value that the dealership paid for the car. Then when they try to tell you they're not making any money on the deal you can call them a liar to their face. If the markup is $2000 and you offer to give them $500 markup or you're walking it doesn't take a genius to do the math there. If you walk they make nothing. 0 500. An engineer understands that. A car salesman understands that. They might like $2000. They might whine. They might even tell you to walk and call you a week later to ask if you're still interested (I've personally had this happen after I had already negotiated another deal). But at the end of the day you shouldn't have to pay their rent for the whole month just for the priviledge of buying a car there. The other thing is to have cash, or have your financing when you walk in the door. Never, ever, under any circumstances allow the dealer to coordinate your financing. You'll get screwed every time. Go to a lender and get pre approved for 10-20% more than you're willing to spend. Do not buy their aftermarket warranty. They never cover anything that breaks anyway. Do not upgrade your sound system, or let them tack on extras. Markup on those things is sometimes as much as 500%. You're almost always better off getting that stuff added elsewhere. The only exception to that is if the dealer is going to give you a deal that is comparable to what you can get elsewhere.
You too can successfully negotiate a fair deal, but only if you have knowledge going in. Again, do your your research. This advice comes from 25 years of car buying experience. I've bought many cars, I have friends who work in dealerships (who would probably be pissed if they saw this).
They have ONE model currently in production, the S. The X has been delayed while issues with the door are worked out, to my knowledge you can't find any on display in common areas. They probably have a few prototypes on display, but that's it. They also have the historical roadster, which isn't really compatible with their current technology.
I don't read AC A human right
there was a time when vacuum cleaners were sold by door-to-door salesmen. imagine if we had corrupt politicians still propping up that ridiculous practice today and the only way to buy a vacuum cleaner was to wait for some schmuck to turn up at your doorstep and throw a bunch of dirt at your feet when you opened the door.
Actual competition is terrifying to "free market capitalists".
Actual competition is nirvana to free market capitalists; those who oppose it, like NADA, are not free market capitalists. FTFY.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
I've worked for dealers for 28 years in service.
Years ago I wondered if a idea like teslas would mature.
It is much harder for dealers to profit from anything due to the required transparency and internet competition.
Please think of your career , business, could you survive with constant never ending negotiations ?
Think about it , because it's coming .
Takumi.
I've worked for dealers for 28 years in service. Years ago I wondered if a idea like teslas would mature. It is much harder for dealers to profit from anything due to the required transparency and internet competition. Please think of your career , business, could you survive with constant never ending negotiations ? Think about it , because it's coming . Takumi.