"You do realize that the vast majority of existing light bulbs are installed upside down?"
Wrong, sideways or right-side up. Only newer buildings tend to have down lighting.
"No one tells you not to do that, there is no warning on the box about it, this is the first time I have ever heard it."
You're buying cheap brands. The pricier CFLs do have the warnings written on them, to either not use in an enclosed fixture or in an upside-down configuration. Quite often, it's not on the packaging, but the base of the bulb itself.
"Ridiculous"
You are the one who failed to educate yourself in the first place, and ended up with mad equipment failure. If you knew anything about electronics and the construction of the bulbs, and some basic thermodynamics, then you'd have not even needed to read directions, this would be common sense. If anything is ridiculous, it would be your continual fighting despite being nailed to the cross for your nonsense and lack of education.
They are well ahead of anybody else. They have been pretty much since their inception, and with a track record like that, they're guaranteed to be around well after you and I are dead.
Given most companies are licensing tech from Cree, Cree isn't going anywhere. Cree is the IBM of LED.
Says the person that doesn't work in the industry, let alone is one of the people that has made AC LED units himself. All you need to do is make a bridge rectifier from LEDs. Wow, suddenly, AC operating LED. No circuitry needed, just a couple of resistors on the input lines to limit current. V=IR P=IE and IT WORKS.
Looks like you didn't read past the first paragraph, or else you'd have read the same things I have read and know.
They work perfectly fine without the lensing. From there, 120-140 degree flood light. And it's not cheap crap. In fact, the aluminum is worth more than what you're paying for the bulb. Mine have worked fine for several years, heavy usage in high-humidity conditions (grow rooms)
" For EcoSmart and Cree...will they even be in the residential lamp business (directly) in 5 or 10 years?"
Do you even know who Cree is? They're the only company out there with an LED that exceeds 200 lumens per watt.
I have several of them (the MK-R.) Three light up my fish tank. One (and only one) is used for video recording/broadcasting. One is used in my 10x10 outdoor canopy, and that one is only driven at 6W instead of the maximum rated 15w.
That company will be around for a LONG time. They are *THE* industry leader.
aliexpress or alibaba for direct-from-manufacturer. Try 9w LEDs 3x3W for $0.20 each, lot of 100, you can buy some, sell some to recoup your costs instantly, and still ave plenty leftover for replacements or 'warranty'
$20 for 100 LEDs that I am personally using and they work.
Umm, a resistor in series would LOWER the power going through, thus extending the life. That's how many lamps have run for so long, they've been limited on the power going through them. It's the resistor that fails because people don't use a large enough one rated to dissipate the heat.
"While I'd like to switch over to more LEDs, every LED bulb I have purchased so far has had manufacturer instructions that they should NOT be mounted in an enclosed fixture (such as a ceiling dome)."
As long as the actual power consumed isn't more than ~9w they work just fine in enclosed cans like what PLL fluorescents are mounted in.
And if you're putting them in a ceiling dome, they're gonna be downlights. Just get a lower powered 3-5w LED with a focusing lens in there.
"Thank you, you just gave me an excellent example of my point. YOU think you know everything"
Speak for yourself, oh ye who has spewed tons of bullshit information in this thread that TWENTY SECONDS OF GOOGLE CAN DISPROVE.
A. I work in this industry. B. CFLs only fail because people don't use them properly (and I don't mean turning them on and off repeatedly. That only affects shitty electronics.) They install them in enclosed areas, heat kills the electronics. They install them upside down when they're not rated for that, heat from the tungsten electrodes in the base of the bulb fries the electronics. They get cheap ones that you can hear rattling around in, and fucking use them anyways, and complain when they break. C. LED are superior in essentially every application. Even your vaunted price woes are pretty much bullshit with sites like alibaba and aliexpress.
I've sold lighting for years, globally, in countries with FAR WORSE power lines than you could ever fucking imagine. You sir, are simply full of bullshit. Go educate yourself (as you've admitted you don't have it for this kind of field) and maybe you'd understand how full of shit you are.
"Right. I'm going to keep the receipts of every blasted bulb I buy."
Smart people order online so they have e-mail copies of their purchases and don't need to store receipts.
Smart people get their LEDs online where they can be had 9W ultra-bright for as little as TWENTY CENTS A PIECE so they can buy in bulk, sell some to the neighbors and recoup the costs before ever even using the bulbs, and still have replacement bulbs leftover so even worrying about a warranty is practically fucking useless.
You don't seem very smart.
Oh, and yes, I am using those bulbs. They work great, with or without the additional lens.
Dude, I live in the land of rolling blackouts and brownouts (Southern California) and none of my LEDs have issues with such power issues. Two lines in my house only pump ~95V, which is fine because any REAL LED bulb has a converter that works from 85V-240V.
Quit buying shit bulbs and find the ones from companies that know what they're doing. Of course, that requires YOU to have at least an education somewhat good enough to understand what's being talked about.
"LEDs on the other hand have to convert the energy which requires circuitry hidden in them, disperse the heat involved with that, and then fire a LED shrouded in a reflector in such a way that you don't over power it and start fighting droop. It is immensely more complicated and requires a lot more to get operating then regular bulbs."
Totally wrong. We've got LEDs that work directly off of AC connections, self-regulate, and have practically zero additional circuitry.
"It would be a pretty stupid thing to buy and expensive LED or other bulb to put in a crawlspace, or attic, or even a closet."
You must live in an attic or crawlspace, otherwise you'd see usable LED bulbs for well under $4 each for a space like an attic online direct from manufacturers on sites like aliexpress.
If your generator isn't getting warm enough to keep your carburetor from freezing, your generator is very poorly-designed. Carbs work best when they sit right atop the power plant, and since heat rises, they should be one of the first things getting warm and staying warm after the engine and exhaust.
"For whatever reason, we are replacing a lot of these first generation LED light fixtures"
I can tell you why right now - putting high power LEDs on a non-thermal PCB then putting a shitty aluminum plate, not even heat sinks, across the back of them, and because the green plastic PCBs warp from the heat, they slowly separate from the heat sink (crappy thermal paste is used) and then they burn out, taking the whole panel with them because bypass resistors were never included in the design. Or they get so hot the crappy solder joints crack. Again, no bypass resistors, so entire board failure.
I design them, so I'm quite familiar with the issues posed by first-gen LED stuff, from highway fixtures to house bulbs to LED grow lights.
Slashdot Mirror
If you neglected to read and comprehend my word "CHEAPEST" then I can't help you.
Also, 4000K NATURALLY has higher blue and green. Do you even understand Color Temperature and CCT?
"You do realize that the vast majority of existing light bulbs are installed upside down?"
Wrong, sideways or right-side up. Only newer buildings tend to have down lighting.
"No one tells you not to do that, there is no warning on the box about it, this is the first time I have ever heard it."
You're buying cheap brands. The pricier CFLs do have the warnings written on them, to either not use in an enclosed fixture or in an upside-down configuration. Quite often, it's not on the packaging, but the base of the bulb itself.
"Ridiculous"
You are the one who failed to educate yourself in the first place, and ended up with mad equipment failure. If you knew anything about electronics and the construction of the bulbs, and some basic thermodynamics, then you'd have not even needed to read directions, this would be common sense. If anything is ridiculous, it would be your continual fighting despite being nailed to the cross for your nonsense and lack of education.
They are well ahead of anybody else. They have been pretty much since their inception, and with a track record like that, they're guaranteed to be around well after you and I are dead.
Given most companies are licensing tech from Cree, Cree isn't going anywhere. Cree is the IBM of LED.
Says the person that doesn't work in the industry, let alone is one of the people that has made AC LED units himself. All you need to do is make a bridge rectifier from LEDs. Wow, suddenly, AC operating LED. No circuitry needed, just a couple of resistors on the input lines to limit current. V=IR P=IE and IT WORKS.
Looks like you didn't read past the first paragraph, or else you'd have read the same things I have read and know.
They work perfectly fine without the lensing. From there, 120-140 degree flood light. And it's not cheap crap. In fact, the aluminum is worth more than what you're paying for the bulb. Mine have worked fine for several years, heavy usage in high-humidity conditions (grow rooms)
The halogen in my pool spotlight has a resistor in series. No problems.
All of those sites are expensive.
Alibaba or Aliexpress.
" For EcoSmart and Cree...will they even be in the residential lamp business (directly) in 5 or 10 years?"
Do you even know who Cree is? They're the only company out there with an LED that exceeds 200 lumens per watt.
I have several of them (the MK-R.) Three light up my fish tank. One (and only one) is used for video recording/broadcasting. One is used in my 10x10 outdoor canopy, and that one is only driven at 6W instead of the maximum rated 15w.
That company will be around for a LONG time. They are *THE* industry leader.
Only idiots use 1000bulbs.com
aliexpress or alibaba for direct-from-manufacturer. Try 9w LEDs 3x3W for $0.20 each, lot of 100, you can buy some, sell some to recoup your costs instantly, and still ave plenty leftover for replacements or 'warranty'
$20 for 100 LEDs that I am personally using and they work.
"LEDs are so dim, you might as well be blind"
That's your fault for buying shitty LEDs.
Lookie here, just an LED on a computer heatsink, at 6w, beating the everliving fuck out of a 100w incandescent.
6W LED vs 100W Incandescent
Umm, a resistor in series would LOWER the power going through, thus extending the life. That's how many lamps have run for so long, they've been limited on the power going through them. It's the resistor that fails because people don't use a large enough one rated to dissipate the heat.
"While I'd like to switch over to more LEDs, every LED bulb I have purchased so far has had manufacturer instructions that they should NOT be mounted in an enclosed fixture (such as a ceiling dome)."
As long as the actual power consumed isn't more than ~9w they work just fine in enclosed cans like what PLL fluorescents are mounted in.
And if you're putting them in a ceiling dome, they're gonna be downlights. Just get a lower powered 3-5w LED with a focusing lens in there.
"Thank you, you just gave me an excellent example of my point. YOU think you know everything"
Speak for yourself, oh ye who has spewed tons of bullshit information in this thread that TWENTY SECONDS OF GOOGLE CAN DISPROVE.
A. I work in this industry.
B. CFLs only fail because people don't use them properly (and I don't mean turning them on and off repeatedly. That only affects shitty electronics.) They install them in enclosed areas, heat kills the electronics. They install them upside down when they're not rated for that, heat from the tungsten electrodes in the base of the bulb fries the electronics. They get cheap ones that you can hear rattling around in, and fucking use them anyways, and complain when they break.
C. LED are superior in essentially every application. Even your vaunted price woes are pretty much bullshit with sites like alibaba and aliexpress.
I've sold lighting for years, globally, in countries with FAR WORSE power lines than you could ever fucking imagine. You sir, are simply full of bullshit. Go educate yourself (as you've admitted you don't have it for this kind of field) and maybe you'd understand how full of shit you are.
"Right. I'm going to keep the receipts of every blasted bulb I buy."
Smart people order online so they have e-mail copies of their purchases and don't need to store receipts.
Smart people get their LEDs online where they can be had 9W ultra-bright for as little as TWENTY CENTS A PIECE so they can buy in bulk, sell some to the neighbors and recoup the costs before ever even using the bulbs, and still have replacement bulbs leftover so even worrying about a warranty is practically fucking useless.
You don't seem very smart.
Oh, and yes, I am using those bulbs. They work great, with or without the additional lens.
Dude, I live in the land of rolling blackouts and brownouts (Southern California) and none of my LEDs have issues with such power issues. Two lines in my house only pump ~95V, which is fine because any REAL LED bulb has a converter that works from 85V-240V.
Quit buying shit bulbs and find the ones from companies that know what they're doing. Of course, that requires YOU to have at least an education somewhat good enough to understand what's being talked about.
Doesn't look like you possess that education.
Why yes, yes they do. I have one. Temperatures out in the desert can get easily below freezing. Heat pump has always worked.
Are you thinking Swamp Cooler?
What won't provide the same quality of lighting?
You should learn how to online shop.
That took all of a few seconds to find, at $0.20 each in a large lot that you could simply resell to your neighbors for dirt cheap and get your initial investment returned before even using the bulbs themselves.
I really wish people would actually try to look to see if what they're talking about is correct, or not.
Oh, and if you don't like the focus, you can simply remove the lens plate and allow the LED to run at its natural viewing angle.
"LEDs on the other hand have to convert the energy which requires circuitry hidden in them, disperse the heat involved with that, and then fire a LED shrouded in a reflector in such a way that you don't over power it and start fighting droop. It is immensely more complicated and requires a lot more to get operating then regular bulbs."
Totally wrong. We've got LEDs that work directly off of AC connections, self-regulate, and have practically zero additional circuitry.
http://ledsmagazine.com/features/3/5/2
In the meantime, be quiet. You're simply speaking without having any real clue.
"It would be a pretty stupid thing to buy and expensive LED or other bulb to put in a crawlspace, or attic, or even a closet."
You must live in an attic or crawlspace, otherwise you'd see usable LED bulbs for well under $4 each for a space like an attic online direct from manufacturers on sites like aliexpress.
If your generator isn't getting warm enough to keep your carburetor from freezing, your generator is very poorly-designed. Carbs work best when they sit right atop the power plant, and since heat rises, they should be one of the first things getting warm and staying warm after the engine and exhaust.
"4) Colour profile of almost all of them is not as nice as incandescent;"
Cheapest fucking 4000K LED I have in the house is the same one used in this comparison chart.
What bullshit are you on about?
"For whatever reason, we are replacing a lot of these first generation LED light fixtures"
I can tell you why right now - putting high power LEDs on a non-thermal PCB then putting a shitty aluminum plate, not even heat sinks, across the back of them, and because the green plastic PCBs warp from the heat, they slowly separate from the heat sink (crappy thermal paste is used) and then they burn out, taking the whole panel with them because bypass resistors were never included in the design. Or they get so hot the crappy solder joints crack. Again, no bypass resistors, so entire board failure.
I design them, so I'm quite familiar with the issues posed by first-gen LED stuff, from highway fixtures to house bulbs to LED grow lights.
"The LED path is even more outrageous and you end up wasting even more cash buying them then you would ever save with them."
Your name does you justice.
You can buy the exact same LEDs that MAJOR COMPANIES are rebranding as their own, and pay 10% what the other companies are charging you.
9w LED bulb, as efficient as the Philips 9w that won that award (and many more are more efficient) for $4 instead of $75.
All over Alibaba.com and similar sites.
>almost 2014
>shopping at retailers instead of online direct with manufacturer
" Nobody has yet created a 40 watt LED heat lamp to keep a compartment in a camper above freezing yet"
Plenty of IR LED arrays that will work. You can find them on sites like Alibaba.com.