Organics can be more dangerous. Any idiot thinking 'organic = safer' will likely do something stupid, like overapply 'organic' fertilizers in excess quantities. Well, that's eventually going to build up and run off into the environment as well, and we'll have hypoxic euphotic zones in local water tables, excess concentrations of potassium phosphorous, calcium, magnesium, et.al in the soil and water, and more.
I've been to a couple of 'organic farms.' They're crap, figuratively and literally.
And one of my hydro systems beats every fucking thing that company says about an 'organic' farm.
I use drastically less water, nutrients, and land, nothing wasted, everything controlled and recirculated. Oh, and my fertilizer? Sea water mineral salts, not much to waste when you only need a couple grams per gallon to grow tons of crops.
Hey guys, look, the INSTITUTE OF ORGANIC FARMING says organic farming is better!
Too blinded by the BS to even see the source bias.
BTW, Hydroponics has been 'conventional farming' for well over 50 years.
And it's still kicking 'Organics' in the ass.
Come back when you can use 1,000 gallons of water, like my system does, and produce one full acre of fodder grass - in 1/8 of an acre.
Never happening in your 'organic' system. Average water - 100,000 gallons per acre.
Translates across pretty much every crop, excepting fungi.
Oh, and the building can be entirely carbon-neutral or even carbon-negative, solar and wind powered.
I'd mod you up but I've posted way too much in this thread.
It appears about 85% of Slashdot needs remedial education on farming techniques. The Sylva Sylvarum couldn't even save them with all the bullshit ingrained into their heads from hippies, marketers, and government bullshit.
"you miss one of the key reasons many choose to go organic - food quality"
Annnnnnnd usually much lower shelf life.
I'll just stick with my hydro/LED stuff, pollute and waste a lot less than any 'organic' land farm could ever dream of, and laugh at their ignorant racketeering all the way to the bank.
And about a thousand other things you seem to be terribly ignorant about, such as no artificial irradiation, and other silly things that should never fucking matter (a photon is a fucking photon, regardless of the source. Sun, mercury lamp, or LED. The only difference is the wavelength and energy potential.)
Sorry, I've checked the whole USDA Organic certification. It's purely a racket, and the rest of the world fucking bought into it like dumbasses.
Your organic farming is much more dangerous, and wasteful, than my enclosed recirculated farming.
You want to protect your environment? Not when my systems use upwards of 99% less water (crop dependent) and only 1/8 of an acre and some sea salt minerals to get what you need an acre for. Look at all that waste you're creating.
"I believe the point of organic farming is to minimize the negative externalities of "conventional" (I would say "industrial") farming, such as water pollution. If you have to plant 34% more acres to avoid poisoning a major river, I and many others would call that a win."
Give it enough time and eventually you will still pollute. You can't keep everything local in a global economy.
Nicotinoids have already4 been demonstrated to be one of the primary causes. As soon as the EU banned it's usage fives years ago, colonies have rebounded quite nicely.
In the meantime, in the USA, where it's still widely used and not banned, colony collapses are happening everywhere.
Already had one beekeeper buy lights from me. Nearby farmers spraying their orange trees with nicotinoids to deal with citrus psyllids fucked his entire apiary, bees poisoned. Now he's growing weed to make ends meet, and his awesome orange blossom honey is no longer available.
"It's not about yield, it's about removing the potentially allergenic and toxic substances in our food chain that modern farming uses from the land, air and water around us."
And that will never happen. How'd that organic produce get to you if you don't have a local organic farm?
Uh-huh. Lots of toxic shit getting dumped right into the environment just so you can feel good about a buzzword.
Nitrates don't typically contain carbon. Therefore, not organic. Your marketing term is nonsense, and now that I see Wikipedia has been thoroughly infested with the bullshit of 'organics' Wikipedia just forever lost any credibility.
"Why would non-organic strawberries have a longer shelf life?"
Genetic modification for thicker fruit walls to handle mechanical picking, for one. Food-grade waxes added to retain moisture, for two (I think that goes against organic certification.)
"it's about preserving topsoil and eliminating harmful chemicals not only from the ecosystem, but from human and animal consumption."
That's not doing shit when we're polluting just as much transporting the organic bullshit halfway across the globe. Preserving topsoil (let's pave those roads to get that organic produce to that small town) HA! Eliminating harmful chemicals PPPFFFCHT PLEASE, what's that exhaust coming from those sea-going freighters, road-going semi-trucks, and air-flying planes, nothing?
"Ultimately they're destroying their land and their health."
Keep on being short-sighted as you are about organics, you're going to be right in the same boat, pal.
"Most people don't really understand the long term consequences of our modern farming methods"
I do, it's one of my jobs. You very obviously don't, or you'd not be backing 'organic' at all.
"it's really quite bad and totally unsustainable."
Yep, organic most certainly is. The majority of organic farms waste so much water, take so long to grow, and have a shit yield/area.
And if you think there's no runoff, oh man, you can EASILY over-enrich an area around an organic farm with 'organic' fertilizer and cause a major lockout, typically of magnesium and phosphorous. Excess 'organic' sources of nitrogen will do the same thing. Organic != safer by any means. You can still be a stupid shit in applying it, and cause major issues later on down the road.
On the other hand, I can take all-natural sea salt, add a little natural zinc nitrate and rock phosphates to make up for the missing nitrogen and phosphorous, and in a recirculating system, indoors, produce in 1/8 of an acre what you need an entire acre for, using roughly 60-80% less water, and 40-60% less nutrients. Not much is wasted, nothing leaked to the surrounding environment, can be totally solar-powered even in sun-poor areas like the UK, you don't burn nearly as much fuel for a harvest (all harvesting is actually done indoors by hand, no room for a tractor in these buildings, and it doesn't take long depending upon the crop,) and with some crops, we don't even need light at all, which in the cases of supergrasses like alfalfa, barley, and wheatgrass, means rapid turnaround and production times (great for ruminant livestock) at a highly reduced cost (fresh feed upwards of $100/kilo, can drop to $0.50/kilo done yourself.)
Further questions? Organics is not the answer, never has been as it's entirely a lie based on misdirection and unscientific bullshit that always paints a broad stroke and ignores every fine detail that truly undermines it. It's been a licensing fee racket the entire time.
Organics = not your future, nor anyone's. Quit falling for the hype.
"Sad, but true: organic food - and with it, all the grass-fed, free-range and other land- and labor-intensive farming - will be the purview of the rich. Or at least the moderately wealthy. The rest of you, go stand in line for pink slime, industrial eggs and speed-grown corn."
An unlawful arrest is considered an assault by the Supreme Court. Your right to freedom trumps the officer's life if you are in the right.
Be wary. Some states will try to charge you with involuntary manslaughter anyways. Take that shit immediately to Federal appeals to get it smacked down.
To add to that: “These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence.” Jones v. State, 26 Tex. App. I; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State, 43 Tex. 93, 903.
"Simply because you think you didn't do anything wrong doesn't give you just cause to resist the arresting officer."
Yes, it does. That is what a court is for.
“When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified.” Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1.
Slashdot Mirror
Organics can be more dangerous. Any idiot thinking 'organic = safer' will likely do something stupid, like overapply 'organic' fertilizers in excess quantities. Well, that's eventually going to build up and run off into the environment as well, and we'll have hypoxic euphotic zones in local water tables, excess concentrations of potassium phosphorous, calcium, magnesium, et.al in the soil and water, and more.
I've been to a couple of 'organic farms.' They're crap, figuratively and literally.
The definition you quote is WAY off line with the 'organic' certification of the USDA.
Perhaps you should actually run an agribusiness and try applying for one.
Also, Carbon has to be the PRIMARY compound in Organic chemistry.
Nitrates don't bind to carbon. Again, NOT ORGANIC.
Can you read? Do you actually understand chemistry?
Organic Pineapple vs Store Pineapple, my favorite grocery story to tell.
Both have the same picked date printed on the attached label, came from the same location.
The organic one rotted in 4 days. Crown unsavable.
"Regular" one died in roughly three weeks, and the crown produced this wonderful plant. Both fruit were roughly the same shade of yellow/green (regular one maybe a tad darker.)
Also, the 'organic' pineapple? Size of my fist.
Regular? My head.
I'll stick with Dole, thanks.
"soil-erosion-threatens-iowa-agriculture"
I'm pretty sure Iowa has heard of hydroponics. Soil is almost never a requirement, excepting maybe cacti and fungi.
And one of my hydro systems beats every fucking thing that company says about an 'organic' farm.
I use drastically less water, nutrients, and land, nothing wasted, everything controlled and recirculated. Oh, and my fertilizer? Sea water mineral salts, not much to waste when you only need a couple grams per gallon to grow tons of crops.
Hey guys, look, the INSTITUTE OF ORGANIC FARMING says organic farming is better!
Too blinded by the BS to even see the source bias.
BTW, Hydroponics has been 'conventional farming' for well over 50 years.
And it's still kicking 'Organics' in the ass.
Come back when you can use 1,000 gallons of water, like my system does, and produce one full acre of fodder grass - in 1/8 of an acre.
Never happening in your 'organic' system. Average water - 100,000 gallons per acre.
Translates across pretty much every crop, excepting fungi.
Oh, and the building can be entirely carbon-neutral or even carbon-negative, solar and wind powered.
And totally automated.
Bye, now.
I'd mod you up but I've posted way too much in this thread.
It appears about 85% of Slashdot needs remedial education on farming techniques. The Sylva Sylvarum couldn't even save them with all the bullshit ingrained into their heads from hippies, marketers, and government bullshit.
"you miss one of the key reasons many choose to go organic - food quality"
Annnnnnnd usually much lower shelf life.
I'll just stick with my hydro/LED stuff, pollute and waste a lot less than any 'organic' land farm could ever dream of, and laugh at their ignorant racketeering all the way to the bank.
"Organic means no man-made chemicals"
And about a thousand other things you seem to be terribly ignorant about, such as no artificial irradiation, and other silly things that should never fucking matter (a photon is a fucking photon, regardless of the source. Sun, mercury lamp, or LED. The only difference is the wavelength and energy potential.)
Sorry, I've checked the whole USDA Organic certification. It's purely a racket, and the rest of the world fucking bought into it like dumbasses.
Your organic farming is much more dangerous, and wasteful, than my enclosed recirculated farming.
You want to protect your environment? Not when my systems use upwards of 99% less water (crop dependent) and only 1/8 of an acre and some sea salt minerals to get what you need an acre for. Look at all that waste you're creating.
"I believe the point of organic farming is to minimize the negative externalities of "conventional" (I would say "industrial") farming, such as water pollution. If you have to plant 34% more acres to avoid poisoning a major river, I and many others would call that a win."
Give it enough time and eventually you will still pollute. You can't keep everything local in a global economy.
"" Pesticides poison bees"
not shown."
Nicotinoids have already4 been demonstrated to be one of the primary causes. As soon as the EU banned it's usage fives years ago, colonies have rebounded quite nicely.
In the meantime, in the USA, where it's still widely used and not banned, colony collapses are happening everywhere.
Already had one beekeeper buy lights from me. Nearby farmers spraying their orange trees with nicotinoids to deal with citrus psyllids fucked his entire apiary, bees poisoned. Now he's growing weed to make ends meet, and his awesome orange blossom honey is no longer available.
"It depends where you live"
Depends on the farming method. We've got methods that will make dirt go pound sand, and use upwards of 99% less water.
"It's not about yield, it's about removing the potentially allergenic and toxic substances in our food chain that modern farming uses from the land, air and water around us."
And that will never happen. How'd that organic produce get to you if you don't have a local organic farm?
Uh-huh. Lots of toxic shit getting dumped right into the environment just so you can feel good about a buzzword.
Good one.
Nitrates don't typically contain carbon. Therefore, not organic. Your marketing term is nonsense, and now that I see Wikipedia has been thoroughly infested with the bullshit of 'organics' Wikipedia just forever lost any credibility.
"you cant say that organic flour is going to cause mass starvation because it costs 5 bucks a pound instead of 3 bucks a pound,"
I can tell you've never been homeless and jobless before. Your entitlement fucking reeks from over here, and your ignorance screams just as loudly.
"Why would non-organic strawberries have a longer shelf life?"
Genetic modification for thicker fruit walls to handle mechanical picking, for one. Food-grade waxes added to retain moisture, for two (I think that goes against organic certification.)
Guess what?
Organics can cause all that too. Any idiot overapplying stuff will eventually upset the delicate natural balance.
"it's about preserving topsoil and eliminating harmful chemicals not only from the ecosystem, but from human and animal consumption."
That's not doing shit when we're polluting just as much transporting the organic bullshit halfway across the globe. Preserving topsoil (let's pave those roads to get that organic produce to that small town) HA! Eliminating harmful chemicals PPPFFFCHT PLEASE, what's that exhaust coming from those sea-going freighters, road-going semi-trucks, and air-flying planes, nothing?
"Ultimately they're destroying their land and their health."
Keep on being short-sighted as you are about organics, you're going to be right in the same boat, pal.
"Most people don't really understand the long term consequences of our modern farming methods"
I do, it's one of my jobs. You very obviously don't, or you'd not be backing 'organic' at all.
"it's really quite bad and totally unsustainable."
Yep, organic most certainly is. The majority of organic farms waste so much water, take so long to grow, and have a shit yield/area.
And if you think there's no runoff, oh man, you can EASILY over-enrich an area around an organic farm with 'organic' fertilizer and cause a major lockout, typically of magnesium and phosphorous. Excess 'organic' sources of nitrogen will do the same thing. Organic != safer by any means. You can still be a stupid shit in applying it, and cause major issues later on down the road.
On the other hand, I can take all-natural sea salt, add a little natural zinc nitrate and rock phosphates to make up for the missing nitrogen and phosphorous, and in a recirculating system, indoors, produce in 1/8 of an acre what you need an entire acre for, using roughly 60-80% less water, and 40-60% less nutrients. Not much is wasted, nothing leaked to the surrounding environment, can be totally solar-powered even in sun-poor areas like the UK, you don't burn nearly as much fuel for a harvest (all harvesting is actually done indoors by hand, no room for a tractor in these buildings, and it doesn't take long depending upon the crop,) and with some crops, we don't even need light at all, which in the cases of supergrasses like alfalfa, barley, and wheatgrass, means rapid turnaround and production times (great for ruminant livestock) at a highly reduced cost (fresh feed upwards of $100/kilo, can drop to $0.50/kilo done yourself.)
Further questions? Organics is not the answer, never has been as it's entirely a lie based on misdirection and unscientific bullshit that always paints a broad stroke and ignores every fine detail that truly undermines it. It's been a licensing fee racket the entire time.
Organics = not your future, nor anyone's. Quit falling for the hype.
"define "healthier animal""
Not very good with the ruminant digestive system eh?
They're not meant to eat corn and bulk grains. They're meant to eat GRASS.
The detrimental effects are well-documented by veterinarians across the globe.
Organic is a bullshit marketing term taken from chemistry because 'all-natural' wasn't getting the demanded price premium.
Also - licensing racket.
You show me a non-organic plant, I'll show you a lump of fresh P238 that doesn't emit alpha particles.
"Sad, but true: organic food - and with it, all the grass-fed, free-range and other land- and labor-intensive farming - will be the purview of the rich. Or at least the moderately wealthy. The rest of you, go stand in line for pink slime, industrial eggs and speed-grown corn."
Wrong.
SEA-90
Dirt fucking cheap.
Anti-reflective? This could be used to help solar panels capture more light.
An unlawful arrest is considered an assault by the Supreme Court. Your right to freedom trumps the officer's life if you are in the right.
Be wary. Some states will try to charge you with involuntary manslaughter anyways. Take that shit immediately to Federal appeals to get it smacked down.
Oops, slashdot ate part of my comment.
To add to that: “These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence.” Jones v. State, 26 Tex. App. I; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State, 43 Tex. 93, 903.
"Simply because you think you didn't do anything wrong doesn't give you just cause to resist the arresting officer."
Yes, it does. That is what a court is for.
“When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified.” Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1.