This is likely in part a self prepuating cycle, seeing few women leads you to think women don't belong in IT, which leads you to be suspicious of any women who are in IT, the women get tired of hostile reactions and drop out, this leads to fewer women in IT.....
That's exactly my point. The other really messed up thing with that typing is the few women who are recogized as being geeks, are such the generic female! I mean, look at the Frag Dolls (who are horrifying) or even Suicide Girls, who are pretty much just modern day cheerleaders with nose rings. Us 'normal' women get even more sidelined because we're not prancing around in babydoll T-shirts. This hasn't become the focus just yet, but give it time.
You're spot on there I think. I know it sounds a bit, well, far fetched but I do kind of wonder if people are milking certain maternity laws. Perhaps out of fear? Or apprehension? Or just taking advantage of the system?
It is a bit actually. As the article points out, there aren't many of us. Despite what the above commenter might think as well, being a geek isn't a bad thing for me at all. I happily love star trek and try to fix broken switches over the weekend. Perhaps I should rephrase to say, 'I'm proud of being in IT' full stop?
HA! I know exactly what you mean. I'm living in the UK right now as my husband is English. One of our friends has custody of his little girl and the mother is off doing whatever. He's the primary caretaker, which is somewhat unusual. Recently he became legally so.
He's never said anything about it being awkward when he picked her up from daycare but it has been acknowledged as being strange that her mother didn't want custody. Ultimately they did what was best for the little girl, given the situation but I can't help but think that in a few years he's going to be in a similar situation to you.
Community child rearing, yeah absolutely. I think the immediate circle should get involved. Very important for the child's social development I think.
I was chatting to someone the other day re: those stupid 'baby on board' stickers I heard were going around on the tube. Women shouldn't be penalized for being women, nor should we be penalized if we do get pregnant. However, I definitely think some responsibility needs to be taken by the woman herself. Whilst I can only change my gender under very extreme conditions, I can still use birth control and I can still inform my employer before I get pregnant, or make arrangements if I'm planning to get pregnant. Not enough women do this. Also, not enough women take into consideration things like public transport, or working conditions even when they do plan for children. They need to be held responsible for that. Rock + Hard place, all of it.
Hehhehe, amusingly enough I read something today that said that marriage and families have become 'unfashionable,' and less people are choosing them. Just goes to prove what you can do with statistics.
I do think there's an element of that in why our numbers would drop. The older you get, the more you think about things like kids and a future. If you read that article though, they completely bypass things like education and the element of sexism, which is very misleading. The emphasis is very much on the family aspect. Most of these f'ing articles have that slant.
It's good to hear someone acknowledge it. Thanks:). It's an uphill struggle, since we're all supposed to be so 'enlightened.' Yeah right, now we're just supposed to be able to take a joke, like one of those other guys mentioned.
Re:Looking at the distribution ...
on
Women Leaving I.T.
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· Score: 2, Insightful
*sigh* pedantic little... True enough but not all working women want a gaggle of sprogs.
*is listening to the Receptionist squeak on about her nails.*
Re:Looking at the distribution ...
on
Women Leaving I.T.
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· Score: 4, Insightful
The facts from that article? What facts? They throw about assumptions that we're all interested in having babies and families, which isn't necessarily true. They're also assuming that men refuse to pick up on basic things like housework and child rearing. There's absolutely nothing to support that, especially considering all the 'negative population growth' alarmist nonsense being bandied aroud elsewhere.
Oh, I am aware. We have one manager here that does it to everyone, which fills me with a sort of 'part of something' joy. I would guess though, that no one has ever assumed you were the receptionist or the Office Manager? Or actually being asked point blank if there was a technical contact onsite after your name had been provided? OR, this is my favorite, have you ever been asked if your name is your 'stage name?' Or have you ever had a man shout at you over the phone, insisting that he HAD TO SPEAK TO A MAN to fix his system? These things happen to us all the time and I can assure you, it's not just me.
And of course it brought out this kind of a response. The article wanted to know why and I'm telling you why I've thought about leaving IT. As for the rest, who knows? I would assume that my gender probably is motivated by money, security and ambition just like men are. It's no secret that IT is kind of bottomed out.
I am enormously proud of being a woman in IT. I think it's pretty cool, especially in the face of all of this *waves around at the/.* comments nonsense. What I was saying though, is, it's generally not easy and not all make it. There comes to be a point where being asked to photocopy something for someone isn't funny anymore, it's just annoying.
1. It's seriously flawed journalism. IT can encompass many, many fields. If they're taking into account call centres, for example, a lot of those have been shipped out of the US. Tech support also went through this crazy phase were they were hiring Customer Service types to do tech support as well. As much as I hate to say it, the sort of prejudice in tech support leans way more towards women. (Just an example of what could be veering these stats around.)
2. I doubt it's the family juggle that's making my gender less prolific than a few years ago. Perhaps it's actually that we have to work so much harder to get people to understand that not only do we know what we're talking about, sometimes *WE KNOW MORE.* I've been asked if I was an office manager, sales, a receptionist... All sorts. Things that my male colleagues have never had to deal with.
3. It is a cause for concern, if women are leaving just a little bit because of option two then dammit, something needs to change. I'm tired of the seemingly prevelant attitudes of the above comments peppering my career. I have boobies, get over it. There is no reason I should be treated any differently. That needs to be looked at very closely.
4. I hope this kind of crappy journalism continues. It makes me seem even more special than I already am.
{If I had a sig, it would include some amusing comment about vi. However, I gave up on sigs years ago.)
Re:You're modded as +3 funny but...
on
Women Leaving I.T.
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· Score: 2, Insightful
That might, MIGHT be true. There are a whole lot more men tinkering around in the basement than women. I would say that the assumption that all women aren't as qualified as men because women generally don't tinker is pretty much a reason to get the hell out of IT. It becomes way too much of an up-hill struggle to get people to respect your qualifications.
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This is likely in part a self prepuating cycle, seeing few women leads you to think women don't belong in IT, which leads you to be suspicious of any women who are in IT, the women get tired of hostile reactions and drop out, this leads to fewer women in IT..... That's exactly my point. The other really messed up thing with that typing is the few women who are recogized as being geeks, are such the generic female! I mean, look at the Frag Dolls (who are horrifying) or even Suicide Girls, who are pretty much just modern day cheerleaders with nose rings. Us 'normal' women get even more sidelined because we're not prancing around in babydoll T-shirts. This hasn't become the focus just yet, but give it time.
You're spot on there I think. I know it sounds a bit, well, far fetched but I do kind of wonder if people are milking certain maternity laws. Perhaps out of fear? Or apprehension? Or just taking advantage of the system?
It is a bit actually. As the article points out, there aren't many of us. Despite what the above commenter might think as well, being a geek isn't a bad thing for me at all. I happily love star trek and try to fix broken switches over the weekend. Perhaps I should rephrase to say, 'I'm proud of being in IT' full stop?
HA! I know exactly what you mean. I'm living in the UK right now as my husband is English. One of our friends has custody of his little girl and the mother is off doing whatever. He's the primary caretaker, which is somewhat unusual. Recently he became legally so.
He's never said anything about it being awkward when he picked her up from daycare but it has been acknowledged as being strange that her mother didn't want custody. Ultimately they did what was best for the little girl, given the situation but I can't help but think that in a few years he's going to be in a similar situation to you.
Community child rearing, yeah absolutely. I think the immediate circle should get involved. Very important for the child's social development I think.
I was chatting to someone the other day re: those stupid 'baby on board' stickers I heard were going around on the tube. Women shouldn't be penalized for being women, nor should we be penalized if we do get pregnant. However, I definitely think some responsibility needs to be taken by the woman herself. Whilst I can only change my gender under very extreme conditions, I can still use birth control and I can still inform my employer before I get pregnant, or make arrangements if I'm planning to get pregnant. Not enough women do this. Also, not enough women take into consideration things like public transport, or working conditions even when they do plan for children. They need to be held responsible for that. Rock + Hard place, all of it.
Hehhehe, amusingly enough I read something today that said that marriage and families have become 'unfashionable,' and less people are choosing them. Just goes to prove what you can do with statistics.
:). It's an uphill struggle, since we're all supposed to be so 'enlightened.' Yeah right, now we're just supposed to be able to take a joke, like one of those other guys mentioned.
I do think there's an element of that in why our numbers would drop. The older you get, the more you think about things like kids and a future. If you read that article though, they completely bypass things like education and the element of sexism, which is very misleading. The emphasis is very much on the family aspect. Most of these f'ing articles have that slant.
It's good to hear someone acknowledge it. Thanks
*sigh* pedantic little... True enough but not all working women want a gaggle of sprogs.
Hehhehehe, you have a point there.
*is listening to the Receptionist squeak on about her nails.*
The facts from that article? What facts? They throw about assumptions that we're all interested in having babies and families, which isn't necessarily true. They're also assuming that men refuse to pick up on basic things like housework and child rearing. There's absolutely nothing to support that, especially considering all the 'negative population growth' alarmist nonsense being bandied aroud elsewhere.
/.* comments nonsense. What I was saying though, is, it's generally not easy and not all make it. There comes to be a point where being asked to photocopy something for someone isn't funny anymore, it's just annoying.
Oh, I am aware. We have one manager here that does it to everyone, which fills me with a sort of 'part of something' joy. I would guess though, that no one has ever assumed you were the receptionist or the Office Manager? Or actually being asked point blank if there was a technical contact onsite after your name had been provided? OR, this is my favorite, have you ever been asked if your name is your 'stage name?' Or have you ever had a man shout at you over the phone, insisting that he HAD TO SPEAK TO A MAN to fix his system? These things happen to us all the time and I can assure you, it's not just me.
And of course it brought out this kind of a response. The article wanted to know why and I'm telling you why I've thought about leaving IT. As for the rest, who knows? I would assume that my gender probably is motivated by money, security and ambition just like men are. It's no secret that IT is kind of bottomed out.
I am enormously proud of being a woman in IT. I think it's pretty cool, especially in the face of all of this *waves around at the
1. It's seriously flawed journalism. IT can encompass many, many fields. If they're taking into account call centres, for example, a lot of those have been shipped out of the US. Tech support also went through this crazy phase were they were hiring Customer Service types to do tech support as well. As much as I hate to say it, the sort of prejudice in tech support leans way more towards women. (Just an example of what could be veering these stats around.) 2. I doubt it's the family juggle that's making my gender less prolific than a few years ago. Perhaps it's actually that we have to work so much harder to get people to understand that not only do we know what we're talking about, sometimes *WE KNOW MORE.* I've been asked if I was an office manager, sales, a receptionist... All sorts. Things that my male colleagues have never had to deal with. 3. It is a cause for concern, if women are leaving just a little bit because of option two then dammit, something needs to change. I'm tired of the seemingly prevelant attitudes of the above comments peppering my career. I have boobies, get over it. There is no reason I should be treated any differently. That needs to be looked at very closely. 4. I hope this kind of crappy journalism continues. It makes me seem even more special than I already am. {If I had a sig, it would include some amusing comment about vi. However, I gave up on sigs years ago.)
That might, MIGHT be true. There are a whole lot more men tinkering around in the basement than women. I would say that the assumption that all women aren't as qualified as men because women generally don't tinker is pretty much a reason to get the hell out of IT. It becomes way too much of an up-hill struggle to get people to respect your qualifications.