God I wish people would stop saying "meme". It doesn't mean "trend" or "buzzword", which is how most people use it. What's the point of the word if it gets watered down to mean 'trend'?
Untrue, depending on how many CPU's you're talking about. Intel's Woodcrest will outperform Opteron in dual CPU configurations. It won't be by as large a margin as Conroe/K8, but it is the faster CPU and fully configured system specs will show similar power usage envelopes (Woodcrest is lower power, but FB-DIMM uses more power - it's a wash).
In 4P machines, results aren't in yet. My bet is that it will be even closer, Opteron may have a small advantage or Intel may have a surprise up its sleeve.
You're completely full of shit. Intel has surpassed Altivec, benchmarks prove it. I don't know what you're babbling about the world cup for. Does Quad G5 excel at playing soccer?
Your DRM comment is a non-sequitur, and laughable. First, it's not there int he way you hysterically claim it is. It supports DRM if apps want to use it, but since apparently you're doing "real" work I don't think scientific/engineering apps will have DRM, dipshit. Or maybe you want to download latest Brittney Spears video and share with your friends?
Finally, you have the gall to act as if a folding@home list means something. You are truly stupid. Here's a clue: If I had been running folding@home for 1 day with a quad G5 and for 5 years with a dozen pentium II's, who do you think would have the higher ranking? You are either stupid or you think everyone else is. I vote "a lot of column A, a little of column B".
This isn't K8L, this is 4x4 which is simply 2xK8 (probably FX chips or Opterons).
If you're talking Woodcrest, then 4x4 won't have any compelling advantages other than using commodity DDR2 RAM - and Woodcrest will perform considerably better.
If you're talking Conroe, 4x4 will perform better in applications which successfully utilize more than 2 threads. i.e. very few, and it will be far more expensive. It will perform not as well in apps which are single or dual threaded.
This might be embarassing. "Yo dog, I just bought a $3500 AMD 4x4 system! Boo-ya Kasha!". "Uhh, wait, why do F.E.A.R and Oblivion run as well or faster on my Conroe E6400 machine that cost me $1200?".
Woodcrest benchmarks have shown so far that it appears to have overtaken Opteron's performance advantage in the dual CPU (quad core) arena, at least. Your parroting of not only anectdotal but non-existent data ("I highly doubt") means nothing.
See anantech's Woodcrest review, for example, from last week. Granted this is a fairly small benchmark but I would posit it's a better predictor than your "doubts", which are meaningless.
Intel's 975X chipset supports CrossFire, and is technically capable of supporting SLI (it works with hacked drivers, ergo NVidia has simply disabled it).
Umm, you're joking right? Core 2 Duo E6700 beats every single AMD processor in every single benchmark except possibly synthetic memory benchmarks. It's not even close in terms of price/performance.
FB-DIMM is not another Rambus - AMD has said they will eventually have to move to it.
And as AMD has taught us, GHz doesn't matter. It's purely performance and wattage.
It's just hilarious that you mention that article. HILAROUS.
Seriously. "Next, on HardOCP: Buying one of those wasteful $400 video cards doesn't help you in video encoding to DivX. News at 11!"
I love you man! It's hilarious that you would reference that ridiculous "review".
Oh Gosh, this sounds so plausible! I mean, you write parallel software every day and you work for something called the "internet archive". Seriously, does it get more plausible than that?!
Okay, that attempt at pleasentry done - do you really think anybody buys that? I mean I'm sure your average sickeningly contrarian SlashDot Nerd ate that shit up, but personally I find your trenchent analysis to be nothing less than PEDANTIC.
Give me reproducible benchmarks and I may believe this jibber jabber, but until then you sound like you're just making shit up. Strike that. You ARE making shit up.
This (2P advantage to AMD) is simply untrue. Woodcrest is laying waste to Opteron in 2P systems, as would Conroe if there were 2P Conroe systems. It's not going to beat it as badly as Conroe beats X2/FX CPUs, but it's still the better processor.
You may have a hope that 4P AMD systems will scale better than 4P Woodcrest (when they're available), but I wouldn't be too confident. Dual FSB's provide enough bandwidth.
There's actually no reason to buy a desktop AMD system now, or at least once these hit the market. Why would you - the low end Core 2 Duo's outperform the high end X2's, or perform comparably. They also overclock better.
The only reason to buy AMD on the desktop side is if you're a fanboy or have existing S939 or AM2 hardware already and want to continue to use it. If you're buying from scratch there is pretty much no reason to buy AMD now, just like 6 months ago there was no reason to buy Intel.
You are implyig Intel doesn't have good power consumption? It's better than the Opteron in that dept, lower TDP.
Or are you implying Intel is more expensive? They're not, AMD has been gouging for the last few years because they can. I don't blame them, but their prices on X2's and Opterons have been pretty sad.
Or are you implying that you can't reliably get Intel parts? This, of course, is ridiculous - everyone knows which company has the capacity.
Umm, you do understand that even an overclocked processor will likely last longer than you actually need it to, right? You could buy a Pentium 940, overclock it to 3.6GHz running on the stock cooler and it would last a minimum of probably 3 years. An absolute miminum - it would probably last more like 5-6 years.
Most computers are obsolete within 2-3 years.
Wait, let me read between the oh so subtle lines... You think people are going to be migrating in droves to Linux? Give me a break, people won't be moving to Linux. They'll find a hack for Windows, they'll buy Windows, or more than likely they'll just buy a new PC that comes with Windows legally bundled.
Nobody is moving to Linux because the games aren't there, the thousands of cheesy little Windows applications people love aren't there, it's different (read: scary), and it's a pain in the ass for most joe schmoes to install.
We don't need a government law for this, we should keep them far away.
The free market will fix this. Here's an idea: Google and YouTube simply don't pay the extortion fee. Wow, that's an amazing thought, huh? If there is degraded service, customers are going to complain to their ISP - let them explain it. There is competition now for broadband. If my cable company provided crappy service, I'd switch to DSL or vice versa, and there's satellite, Sprint's wireless product, etc...
I don't get you people, so willy nilly in your ideals. Generally you're anti-government-regulation but now all the sudden you want more pointless laws and regulations?
Let's not turn these "17 year olds" into deep thinkers or idealogues. They simply want free stuff. That's what 90% of this is about, people want to download movies and music for free. The other 10% is legitimate "I want to do what I want with my music/movies", but it's disingenous to make this some kind of 100% noble battle.
You seem to think SlashDot nerds and AMD Fanboys make up the vast computer buying market. You are sadly mistaken, Intel sells many multiples of the number of processors (including P4's) that AMD does.
Please try to stay with us here in the "Real World".
Umm, the 3800+ will perform about half as well in most tasks as the Conroe at 65W. Intel has (and will release more) sub-35W processors including the 1 watt Core Duo running at 1.6GHz they just announced.
Your premise is incorrect. Intel currently holds the bang for the buck advantage, especially in the dual core arena. AMD has been able to gouge because they hav a slightly better product and, more importantly, nerds love AMD because nerds are underdogs and nerds love underdogs (see: Linux vs. Microsoft).
But when it comes to price/performance, it's hard to be the 805 or 9xx series pentium chips - the X2 certaintly doesn't. In performance - yes (in most things), in price/performance - no.
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God I wish people would stop saying "meme". It doesn't mean "trend" or "buzzword", which is how most people use it. What's the point of the word if it gets watered down to mean 'trend'?
In 4P machines, results aren't in yet. My bet is that it will be even closer, Opteron may have a small advantage or Intel may have a surprise up its sleeve.
Your DRM comment is a non-sequitur, and laughable. First, it's not there int he way you hysterically claim it is. It supports DRM if apps want to use it, but since apparently you're doing "real" work I don't think scientific/engineering apps will have DRM, dipshit. Or maybe you want to download latest Brittney Spears video and share with your friends?
Finally, you have the gall to act as if a folding@home list means something. You are truly stupid. Here's a clue: If I had been running folding@home for 1 day with a quad G5 and for 5 years with a dozen pentium II's, who do you think would have the higher ranking? You are either stupid or you think everyone else is. I vote "a lot of column A, a little of column B".
If you're talking Woodcrest, then 4x4 won't have any compelling advantages other than using commodity DDR2 RAM - and Woodcrest will perform considerably better.
If you're talking Conroe, 4x4 will perform better in applications which successfully utilize more than 2 threads. i.e. very few, and it will be far more expensive. It will perform not as well in apps which are single or dual threaded.
This might be embarassing. "Yo dog, I just bought a $3500 AMD 4x4 system! Boo-ya Kasha!". "Uhh, wait, why do F.E.A.R and Oblivion run as well or faster on my Conroe E6400 machine that cost me $1200?".
Woodcrest benchmarks have shown so far that it appears to have overtaken Opteron's performance advantage in the dual CPU (quad core) arena, at least. Your parroting of not only anectdotal but non-existent data ("I highly doubt") means nothing.
See anantech's Woodcrest review, for example, from last week. Granted this is a fairly small benchmark but I would posit it's a better predictor than your "doubts", which are meaningless.
Intel supports quad computing, it's called "Woodcrest" and it's been out for a few weeks.
Intel's 975X chipset supports CrossFire, and is technically capable of supporting SLI (it works with hacked drivers, ergo NVidia has simply disabled it).
Umm, you're joking right? Core 2 Duo E6700 beats every single AMD processor in every single benchmark except possibly synthetic memory benchmarks. It's not even close in terms of price/performance. FB-DIMM is not another Rambus - AMD has said they will eventually have to move to it. And as AMD has taught us, GHz doesn't matter. It's purely performance and wattage.
Gee.. This post looks _awfully_ familiar. Methinks it is either a dupe or a copy. If you posted it the first time, then no foul - otherwise...
It's just hilarious that you mention that article. HILAROUS. Seriously. "Next, on HardOCP: Buying one of those wasteful $400 video cards doesn't help you in video encoding to DivX. News at 11!" I love you man! It's hilarious that you would reference that ridiculous "review".
Okay, that attempt at pleasentry done - do you really think anybody buys that? I mean I'm sure your average sickeningly contrarian SlashDot Nerd ate that shit up, but personally I find your trenchent analysis to be nothing less than PEDANTIC.
Give me reproducible benchmarks and I may believe this jibber jabber, but until then you sound like you're just making shit up. Strike that. You ARE making shit up.
Woodcrest changes your equation completely.
This (2P advantage to AMD) is simply untrue. Woodcrest is laying waste to Opteron in 2P systems, as would Conroe if there were 2P Conroe systems. It's not going to beat it as badly as Conroe beats X2/FX CPUs, but it's still the better processor. You may have a hope that 4P AMD systems will scale better than 4P Woodcrest (when they're available), but I wouldn't be too confident. Dual FSB's provide enough bandwidth.
There's actually no reason to buy a desktop AMD system now, or at least once these hit the market. Why would you - the low end Core 2 Duo's outperform the high end X2's, or perform comparably. They also overclock better. The only reason to buy AMD on the desktop side is if you're a fanboy or have existing S939 or AM2 hardware already and want to continue to use it. If you're buying from scratch there is pretty much no reason to buy AMD now, just like 6 months ago there was no reason to buy Intel.
You are implyig Intel doesn't have good power consumption? It's better than the Opteron in that dept, lower TDP.
Or are you implying Intel is more expensive? They're not, AMD has been gouging for the last few years because they can. I don't blame them, but their prices on X2's and Opterons have been pretty sad.
Or are you implying that you can't reliably get Intel parts? This, of course, is ridiculous - everyone knows which company has the capacity.
Umm, you do understand that even an overclocked processor will likely last longer than you actually need it to, right? You could buy a Pentium 940, overclock it to 3.6GHz running on the stock cooler and it would last a minimum of probably 3 years. An absolute miminum - it would probably last more like 5-6 years. Most computers are obsolete within 2-3 years.
There is a 90 day effort to save Intel $1 billion. This is a _part_ of that effort.
In the real world, Core 2 has a comparable or lower thermal envelope than AMD's chips.
Wait, let me read between the oh so subtle lines... You think people are going to be migrating in droves to Linux? Give me a break, people won't be moving to Linux. They'll find a hack for Windows, they'll buy Windows, or more than likely they'll just buy a new PC that comes with Windows legally bundled. Nobody is moving to Linux because the games aren't there, the thousands of cheesy little Windows applications people love aren't there, it's different (read: scary), and it's a pain in the ass for most joe schmoes to install.
What, you want a cookie?
We don't need a government law for this, we should keep them far away. The free market will fix this. Here's an idea: Google and YouTube simply don't pay the extortion fee. Wow, that's an amazing thought, huh? If there is degraded service, customers are going to complain to their ISP - let them explain it. There is competition now for broadband. If my cable company provided crappy service, I'd switch to DSL or vice versa, and there's satellite, Sprint's wireless product, etc... I don't get you people, so willy nilly in your ideals. Generally you're anti-government-regulation but now all the sudden you want more pointless laws and regulations?
Let's not turn these "17 year olds" into deep thinkers or idealogues. They simply want free stuff. That's what 90% of this is about, people want to download movies and music for free. The other 10% is legitimate "I want to do what I want with my music/movies", but it's disingenous to make this some kind of 100% noble battle.
You seem to think SlashDot nerds and AMD Fanboys make up the vast computer buying market. You are sadly mistaken, Intel sells many multiples of the number of processors (including P4's) that AMD does. Please try to stay with us here in the "Real World".
Umm, the 3800+ will perform about half as well in most tasks as the Conroe at 65W. Intel has (and will release more) sub-35W processors including the 1 watt Core Duo running at 1.6GHz they just announced.
Your premise is incorrect. Intel currently holds the bang for the buck advantage, especially in the dual core arena. AMD has been able to gouge because they hav a slightly better product and, more importantly, nerds love AMD because nerds are underdogs and nerds love underdogs (see: Linux vs. Microsoft). But when it comes to price/performance, it's hard to be the 805 or 9xx series pentium chips - the X2 certaintly doesn't. In performance - yes (in most things), in price/performance - no.