Of course we need Steve Jobs to tell us what we need, the consumers can't choose for themselves based on the choices in the market which is always bad. We need only one or two form factors.
These two should be banned from the market by fiat. for not conforming to Jobs' dictates and taste It's not like anyone would find it right for themselves right?
ACs are filtered due to abuse. Dare to stand behind what you say and get an account, it only takes two mins.
A point isn't any less valid just because it's made by an AC, and if these couple of AC replies are what you count as 'abuse,' you really haven't got a clue. I haven't even checked in to your claims, but the fact that you spend more time whining about other people being logged in than you do making your case doesn't really instill a lot of confidence in them.
--Jeremy
Not just a couple of replies from AC, I get vile attacks with foul language constantly from many ACs and I attribute some to people who are logged in but are posting anonymously. This is the price of trying to go against Slashdot's general consensus of 'M$ sux'.
Don't you get the irony behind calling someone a paid shill and then posting that attack anonymously? My time is precious so I don't see a need to respond to everyone, especially those who can't even bother to spend 2 minutes to get an account or who are posting AC to conceal their real account and use personal attacks and foul language. Trust me, it gets VERY annoying to come back for most comments and have 4 AC replies with personal attacks and none really addressing the real point or containing any references.
Microsoft almost always supports other platforms if it has enough marketshare and if they think they can make money off it. They even seem to be making Office for the iPad. The summary is trying to be a troll as usual. This is like WINE, more support is always good if you trying to get as many customers as possible.
It is not enough to just make a great OS , you need the ecosystem with hundreds of thousands of apps, retail presence, the buzz factor in the marketplace etc. etc. Miss any one and you're toast in the Post-PC world led by Apple.
WebOS is(was?) a great OS and the UX is MUCH better than Android (Google hired the WebOS team, so lets see what happens, Android design is all over the place right now). But if people don't even know that, how can they even consider the UX? They look at someone's iPhone and want one themselves that runs "Draw Something' so they can play it with friends.
The hardware was not too bad (I have a Touchpad that I loaded ICS on for apps). It was too expensive to compete with the iPad(Apple was able to keep it low with economies of scale and supply chain management) so it didn't make sense for people to buy a new platform with a few apps when for the same amount of money you could get an iPad or iPhone. Unlike Android, WebOS was tied to only HP/Palm's h/w.
That's why Windows Phone is struggling even with MS's push behind it, a nice Metro UI and Nokia's great h/w(though it overtook Blackberry and WebOS with a 100K apps available now) and RIM is all but finished even if their upcoming BB10(based on QNX) is leaps and bounds ahead of BB7. It has to have exclusive killer features or apps to succeed in this dog-eat-dog world. In line to die are AMD(Apple doesn't care about them), T-Mobile(no iPhone), Nokia(unless Windows 8 tablets and WP8 save them), HTC(doing badly these days) and some of the PC OEMs(most of them are doing badly thanks to the iPad).
So the CEO did really make a great OS with dev friendly dev tools(RIM usually makes TERRIBLE dev tools), but failed at the marketing and buzz factor. The fact that he walked away a rich man doesn't really matter to understand why WebOS failed.
>0. I guess that depends on who "they" refers to, now doesn't it? Or are you saying that Microsoft IS Apple?
Well, I guess they're mostly similar. But I meant Apple, but it implies the same general "they" as in the "they came first" meme.
>1. Who really gives a crap who came for what first?
Apparently, my Parent comment(now GGP) "+5 Insighful" did by saying "First they came for ARM on the desktop...". So I was trying to correct him/her.
> Focus on the solution. What matters is if we can use this SNAFU to keep them from taking more stuff now.
I don't see you or anyone calling for similar restrictions on Apple.Restrictions only on MS will only strengthen Apple's hand with the way things are going. Are you really looking at tablet sales, PC sales, phones sales trends? Do you really want that? Maybe you do or don't really care about Apple and it's even more locked down products, because I usually see that taking down and hating on MS seems to be more preferable to actually increasing software "freedom", at least in this community.
>But the trend is clear....after the population has got used to having less freedom.
The trend was clear from when Apple implemented Microsoft' Trusted Computing (Palladium). There was a huge outcry in the earlier part of last decade because it was from MS(just like the bitchfest recently). But when it was from Apple, everyone loved it and lapped it up, and Apple can't keep their iProducts in stock because the population loves having less freedom, apparently. See locked bootloaders on many Android phones, tablets, Kindle Fire, Nook etc. etc.
Why should MS be singled out and hobbled with restrictions when Apple is the one that's dominating ARM device/tablet sales? Apple is the elephant in the room that no ones wants to talk about in the discussion. And I can understand why, it completely undermines their rants against MS. In other discussions about Windows 8, the overall gist of the comments is that it will completely crash and burn.
I don't see PCs being completely replaced by Windows RT tablets or ARM desktops even in the medium term future. If it's a Windows x86 device, you can install whatever you want in it, if you are willing to configure UEFI on your PC.
No, first they came for phones and tablets, and they can barely keep them in stock with people falling over themselves and risking stampedes to buy them.
> In order to get the Google blessing and the added apps you have to conform to the requirements and that involves paying a fee so yes, MS and Apple can compete on price with the operating systems in their mobile devices.
So Android is not really Open you mean? The added apps are not FOSS and access is restricted to the Android market which hurts low cost OEMs.
>Your stupid name is on every website I frequent especially hacker news and slashdot and you have only one track. that track is shitting on Google and defending MS. If you are not a paid shill then you must really have a lot of time on your hands and a demented brain.
I like to take a contrarian stand on the general biases on the sites, not my fault:)
>It tells you explicitely that MS will give your info to a third party for so-called "statistical" purpose
Maybe you should read the thread and notice that I wasn't talking about packet sniffing proving that MS sends info.
Also, how does Microsoft get your personal info that it sends to an alleged unnamed mysterious 3rd parties? By carrier pigeon bypassing your internet? Do you mail them USB keys of your information? Geez, even the Apollo moon landing and 911 conspiracy theories make more sense than this BS you're spouting.
Let me make it simple. Example of your personal information is your Name, Age and Gender. You buy a Dell computer at Best Buy and take it home and plug it in and use it for a week.
Now tell me how your Name, Age and Gender end up at this alleged third party.
I'm sorry you fail at Google. No, I'm not going to Google that for you. If you don't trust information from the Google, then put a network sniffer on your home network, load a brand new PC with Windows and make it the only device outside of the sniffer on your network. Watch, and be amazed.
Ahh, hand waving.
I set up Fiddler2 which can even decode HTTPS locally and didn't find anything interesting going over the wire.
So if you have, please share and amaze me and us.
Or provide at least ONE reference that you think is credible, because all I see is BS when I search.
If you cannot, then I'll just assume you're talking BS.
Android is not really a regular OSS project like Linux or Firefox. Development happens behind secret closed doors and some OEMs get special early access. And when the Nexus device is released to the market(not one day before that), the code is dumped over a wall to the general public and other OEMs who then get into a mad scramble to work on it(no wonder updates to existing OEM phones take ~8 months after the Nexus device) . Contrast that with Linux, Firefox etc. where you can compile the nightlies or even Windows, with everyone getting access to betas and RCs before it is released instead of just catering to special interests.
>If you want to talk about dumping, lets discuss how much you pay for windows as an OEM install on a new PC vs buying a retail box.
Companies can compete with Windows(retail or OEM) on price, which is exactly what Ubuntu is doing on the desktop and servers. You cannot do that with Android. Your comparison of Retail vs. OEM is nonsense, OEMs are wholesalers and get different prices like every other industry in existence. Not to mention that dumping requires a company to take a loss. Windows is one of the most profitable businesses in existence.
I think I need to filter ACs from even showing up as replies, please get an account and dare to stand by what you say.
>Do you think Google or any other investor can just waltz into IV and tell them what and what not to do?
I did not say that Google told IV to do anything, just that they're an investor in IV.
>Do you have any emails/phone calls/documents of Google giving specific reasoning as to why they invested in this particular fund? It is equally possible that Google is taking a "know thy enemy" approach to this dispicable group than they are in league with them. Keep grasping for straws, fucker.
So the best way to do that is to bankroll and encourage them and then make profit $$$ off them? What's there to know about a patent troll? Their practices are well documented. Perhaps you believe that the SS was doing security research with hookers in Colombia while they were having fun with them. Equally possible, right?
>They invested in "Defendant Invention Investment Fund I." which is an investment fund that invested in IV.
Umm no. That fund is completely a part of IV. IV has various funds, and Google invested only in that fund. It's not like an general investment fund or mutual fund. And Google's investment was only revealed in a lawsuit or it would be hidden even now, just like Google wants it to be. Who's twisting the truth now?
Why don't you get an account(or login to your real account) and dare to stand behind your posts instead of hiding like a coward taking potshots at me? Or are you a Google shill or employee trying to spin the facts and posting anonymously to hide?
>Its REALLY simple; linux is not being locked out of desktops.
So what?
Why should Linux be locked out of ARM and portable devices?
Answer that, you fucking shill.
-- BMO
Egads, here we go again with the accusations. Anyone pointing out any facts here is fair game.
>Why should Linux be locked out of ARM and portable devices?
First, there are more than 250 models of Android tablets available out there. There's so much choice. Some Android OEMs lock the bootloader. I don't see you railing against them?
Second, Windows might be lessening the license cost of Windows RT(thus reducing price to consumer) in hope of making it up on the app store and music/video/games etc. Users loading a different OS will deny them that and fill the coffers of Google instead. This is the same model for game consoles, Kindle Fire(LOCKED BOOTLOADER OMG SHILLS), Nook Tablet (LOCKED BOOTLOADER OMG SHILLS) etc. etc.
Third, I don't see you railing against Apple this way, who are leading the post-PC sales, Windows RT tablets could easily be a big flop and some analysts are predicting they won't take off. So why are you more worried about a few percent of the market compared to the ~50% that Apple has? This shows your anti-MS bias and hate. And stop calling people shills.
Slashdot Mirror
Of course we need Steve Jobs to tell us what we need, the consumers can't choose for themselves based on the choices in the market which is always bad. We need only one or two form factors.
These two should be banned from the market by fiat. for not conforming to Jobs' dictates and taste It's not like anyone would find it right for themselves right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6jnrRRAcZc
http://www.idownloadblog.com/2012/05/25/microsoft-sell-80-inch-windows-8-tablet/
ACs are filtered due to abuse. Dare to stand behind what you say and get an account, it only takes two mins.
A point isn't any less valid just because it's made by an AC, and if these couple of AC replies are what you count as 'abuse,' you really haven't got a clue. I haven't even checked in to your claims, but the fact that you spend more time whining about other people being logged in than you do making your case doesn't really instill a lot of confidence in them.
--Jeremy
Not just a couple of replies from AC, I get vile attacks with foul language constantly from many ACs and I attribute some to people who are logged in but are posting anonymously. This is the price of trying to go against Slashdot's general consensus of 'M$ sux'.
Don't you get the irony behind calling someone a paid shill and then posting that attack anonymously? My time is precious so I don't see a need to respond to everyone, especially those who can't even bother to spend 2 minutes to get an account or who are posting AC to conceal their real account and use personal attacks and foul language. Trust me, it gets VERY annoying to come back for most comments and have 4 AC replies with personal attacks and none really addressing the real point or containing any references.
Microsoft almost always supports other platforms if it has enough marketshare and if they think they can make money off it. They even seem to be making Office for the iPad. The summary is trying to be a troll as usual. This is like WINE, more support is always good if you trying to get as many customers as possible.
They even released an Android app recently.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsofts-bing-mobile-team-introduces-new-app-first-for-android-phones/12856
It is not enough to just make a great OS , you need the ecosystem with hundreds of thousands of apps, retail presence, the buzz factor in the marketplace etc. etc. Miss any one and you're toast in the Post-PC world led by Apple.
WebOS is(was?) a great OS and the UX is MUCH better than Android (Google hired the WebOS team, so lets see what happens, Android design is all over the place right now). But if people don't even know that, how can they even consider the UX? They look at someone's iPhone and want one themselves that runs "Draw Something' so they can play it with friends.
The hardware was not too bad (I have a Touchpad that I loaded ICS on for apps). It was too expensive to compete with the iPad(Apple was able to keep it low with economies of scale and supply chain management) so it didn't make sense for people to buy a new platform with a few apps when for the same amount of money you could get an iPad or iPhone. Unlike Android, WebOS was tied to only HP/Palm's h/w.
That's why Windows Phone is struggling even with MS's push behind it, a nice Metro UI and Nokia's great h/w(though it overtook Blackberry and WebOS with a 100K apps available now) and RIM is all but finished even if their upcoming BB10(based on QNX) is leaps and bounds ahead of BB7. It has to have exclusive killer features or apps to succeed in this dog-eat-dog world. In line to die are AMD(Apple doesn't care about them), T-Mobile(no iPhone), Nokia(unless Windows 8 tablets and WP8 save them), HTC(doing badly these days) and some of the PC OEMs(most of them are doing badly thanks to the iPad).
So the CEO did really make a great OS with dev friendly dev tools(RIM usually makes TERRIBLE dev tools), but failed at the marketing and buzz factor. The fact that he walked away a rich man doesn't really matter to understand why WebOS failed.
I really wish modern versions of Windows had a painless repair install that would allow end users to keep programs and settings.
Windows 8 has something like it. http://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/how-to-refresh-or-reset-your-windows-8-pc-complete-guide/
>0. I guess that depends on who "they" refers to, now doesn't it? Or are you saying that Microsoft IS Apple?
Well, I guess they're mostly similar. But I meant Apple, but it implies the same general "they" as in the "they came first" meme.
>1. Who really gives a crap who came for what first?
Apparently, my Parent comment(now GGP) "+5 Insighful" did by saying "First they came for ARM on the desktop...". So I was trying to correct him/her.
> Focus on the solution. What matters is if we can use this SNAFU to keep them from taking more stuff now.
I don't see you or anyone calling for similar restrictions on Apple.Restrictions only on MS will only strengthen Apple's hand with the way things are going. Are you really looking at tablet sales, PC sales, phones sales trends? Do you really want that? Maybe you do or don't really care about Apple and it's even more locked down products, because I usually see that taking down and hating on MS seems to be more preferable to actually increasing software "freedom", at least in this community.
>But the trend is clear....after the population has got used to having less freedom.
The trend was clear from when Apple implemented Microsoft' Trusted Computing (Palladium). There was a huge outcry in the earlier part of last decade because it was from MS(just like the bitchfest recently). But when it was from Apple, everyone loved it and lapped it up, and Apple can't keep their iProducts in stock because the population loves having less freedom, apparently. See locked bootloaders on many Android phones, tablets, Kindle Fire, Nook etc. etc.
Why should MS be singled out and hobbled with restrictions when Apple is the one that's dominating ARM device/tablet sales? Apple is the elephant in the room that no ones wants to talk about in the discussion. And I can understand why, it completely undermines their rants against MS. In other discussions about Windows 8, the overall gist of the comments is that it will completely crash and burn.
Probably not even IE9 but IE10, since the update is coming in the fall and Windows 8/IE10 is expected to go RTM/Gold by Aug 1.
I don't see PCs being completely replaced by Windows RT tablets or ARM desktops even in the medium term future. If it's a Windows x86 device, you can install whatever you want in it, if you are willing to configure UEFI on your PC.
No, first they came for phones and tablets, and they can barely keep them in stock with people falling over themselves and risking stampedes to buy them.
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/gartner_apple_turns_its_complete_inventory_every_5_days/
But somehow it's fashionable only to slag Microsoft on here and ignore the elephant in the room with the lion's share of devices and profits.
> In order to get the Google blessing and the added apps you have to conform to the requirements and that involves paying a fee so yes, MS and Apple can compete on price with the operating systems in their mobile devices.
So Android is not really Open you mean? The added apps are not FOSS and access is restricted to the Android market which hurts low cost OEMs.
Eg no Android(OpenTM) market on:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/245495/tablet_priced_under_100_with_android_40_surfaces.html
>Your stupid name is on every website I frequent especially hacker news and slashdot and you have only one track. that track is shitting on Google and defending MS. If you are not a paid shill then you must really have a lot of time on your hands and a demented brain.
I like to take a contrarian stand on the general biases on the sites, not my fault :)
>It tells you explicitely that MS will give your info to a third party for so-called "statistical" purpose
Maybe you should read the thread and notice that I wasn't talking about packet sniffing proving that MS sends info.
Also, how does Microsoft get your personal info that it sends to an alleged unnamed mysterious 3rd parties? By carrier pigeon bypassing your internet? Do you mail them USB keys of your information? Geez, even the Apollo moon landing and 911 conspiracy theories make more sense than this BS you're spouting.
Let me make it simple. Example of your personal information is your Name, Age and Gender. You buy a Dell computer at Best Buy and take it home and plug it in and use it for a week.
Now tell me how your Name, Age and Gender end up at this alleged third party.
I'm sorry you fail at Google. No, I'm not going to Google that for you. If you don't trust information from the Google, then put a network sniffer on your home network, load a brand new PC with Windows and make it the only device outside of the sniffer on your network. Watch, and be amazed.
Ahh, hand waving.
I set up Fiddler2 which can even decode HTTPS locally and didn't find anything interesting going over the wire.
So if you have, please share and amaze me and us.
Or provide at least ONE reference that you think is credible, because all I see is BS when I search.
If you cannot, then I'll just assume you're talking BS.
That's because Flash is not a plugin in Metro IE, it's integrated like PNG or GIF is. Hope it won't cause too many security issues.
No they cannot, the plugin support code is not even present in Metro IE.
Android is not really a regular OSS project like Linux or Firefox. Development happens behind secret closed doors and some OEMs get special early access. And when the Nexus device is released to the market(not one day before that), the code is dumped over a wall to the general public and other OEMs who then get into a mad scramble to work on it(no wonder updates to existing OEM phones take ~8 months after the Nexus device) . Contrast that with Linux, Firefox etc. where you can compile the nightlies or even Windows, with everyone getting access to betas and RCs before it is released instead of just catering to special interests.
>If you want to talk about dumping, lets discuss how much you pay for windows as an OEM install on a new PC vs buying a retail box.
Companies can compete with Windows(retail or OEM) on price, which is exactly what Ubuntu is doing on the desktop and servers. You cannot do that with Android. Your comparison of Retail vs. OEM is nonsense, OEMs are wholesalers and get different prices like every other industry in existence. Not to mention that dumping requires a company to take a loss. Windows is one of the most profitable businesses in existence.
>by way of activation and other control schemes
Windows Activation collects personally identifiable information? Maybe only for the very few ones who have to call in.
> and other control schemes?
What other control schemes? You're clutching at straws here.
MS seems to have thought about it. No plugins will work in Windows RT or the Metro browser. Just the desktop IE in regular Windows 8.
They hacked Safari's privacy measures previously.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/17/google-tricked-apples-saf_n_1284551.html
They also ignored IE's p3p setting.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2012/02/20/google-bypassing-user-privacy-settings.aspx
Expect Google fanboys/employees to slag MS for protecting the users' privacy in the comments.
>sent data without user knowledge to 3rd party companies that could be traced to MS
Citation needed and stupid Slashdot posts and rants don't count.
I think I need to filter ACs from even showing up as replies, please get an account and dare to stand by what you say.
>Do you think Google or any other investor can just waltz into IV and tell them what and what not to do?
I did not say that Google told IV to do anything, just that they're an investor in IV.
>Do you have any emails/phone calls/documents of Google giving specific reasoning as to why they invested in this particular fund? It is equally possible that Google is taking a "know thy enemy" approach to this dispicable group than they are in league with them. Keep grasping for straws, fucker.
So the best way to do that is to bankroll and encourage them and then make profit $$$ off them? What's there to know about a patent troll? Their practices are well documented. Perhaps you believe that the SS was doing security research with hookers in Colombia while they were having fun with them. Equally possible, right?
>They invested in "Defendant Invention Investment Fund I." which is an investment fund that invested in IV.
Umm no. That fund is completely a part of IV. IV has various funds, and Google invested only in that fund. It's not like an general investment fund or mutual fund. And Google's investment was only revealed in a lawsuit or it would be hidden even now, just like Google wants it to be. Who's twisting the truth now?
Why don't you get an account(or login to your real account) and dare to stand behind your posts instead of hiding like a coward taking potshots at me? Or are you a Google shill or employee trying to spin the facts and posting anonymously to hide?
> Because last I checked this specific anti-trust complaint is about Nokia and Microsoft backing patent trolls.
Did you really check it? Or are you just wearing your fanboy blinders?
They're an investor in the biggest patent troll around, Intellectual Ventures.
http://www.iam-magazine.com/blog/Detail.aspx?g=2f9ac708-83af-42b9-9d3d-5fdf39fdc482
>Its REALLY simple; linux is not being locked out of desktops.
So what?
Why should Linux be locked out of ARM and portable devices?
Answer that, you fucking shill.
--
BMO
Egads, here we go again with the accusations. Anyone pointing out any facts here is fair game.
>Why should Linux be locked out of ARM and portable devices?
First, there are more than 250 models of Android tablets available out there. There's so much choice. Some Android OEMs lock the bootloader. I don't see you railing against them?
Second, Windows might be lessening the license cost of Windows RT(thus reducing price to consumer) in hope of making it up on the app store and music/video/games etc. Users loading a different OS will deny them that and fill the coffers of Google instead. This is the same model for game consoles, Kindle Fire(LOCKED BOOTLOADER OMG SHILLS), Nook Tablet (LOCKED BOOTLOADER OMG SHILLS) etc. etc.
Third, I don't see you railing against Apple this way, who are leading the post-PC sales, Windows RT tablets could easily be a big flop and some analysts are predicting they won't take off. So why are you more worried about a few percent of the market compared to the ~50% that Apple has? This shows your anti-MS bias and hate. And stop calling people shills.
>was to put a 3rd party in charge of the process
What third party? And if they did do that, everyone here will be complaining about MS getting to pick them.
How about the Linux/BSD/Haiku/ReactOS/Hurd community pick a 3rd party or just one of themselves? The OEMs are more than willing to include the keys.
>include guidelines in UEFI for how keys could automatically be installed safely
Automatically and safely don't go together. The reason is the dancing bunnies problem.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/larryosterman/archive/2005/07/12/438284.aspx