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Google Files Antitrust Complaint Against Microsoft, Nokia
x0d writes with news that Google filed an EU antitrust complaint against Microsoft and Nokia on Thursday, claiming they are using proxy companies to make smartphone-related patent claims in an attack on Google's Android business. From the article:
"Google also plans to share its complaint about patent 'trolls' with U.S. competition regulators. The Internet-search giant alleges that Microsoft and Nokia have entered into agreements that enable entities such as Canada-based Mosaid Technologies Inc. to legally enforce their patent rights and share the resulting revenue. Google, which hasn't been sued by Mosaid or related firms, described its filing with European regulators as a pre-emptive measure against a developing legal hazard for Android partners. The threat is that if phone makers perceive a significant legal risk in using Android, they may opt instead for Microsoft's Windows Phone software."
Hi pot, my name is kettle. You are black!
sudo make me a sandwich
Now the fun begins!! I hope Google gets them good as we have all seen this for a long time and wondered when it was going to happen. They won against Oracle, now M$ and hopefully put Apple in it's place.
Paybacks are a bitch!
Europe knows it very, very well.
Grey's Law: Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.
As much as I distrust Google, which is quite a bit ever since they started asking for phone numbers, they still haven't reached the same level of fear that I have Microsoft and its insistence on forcing everyone into its collective. Add to that the fact that it's also against Nokia, a company I once adored before they jumped in bed with the devil incarnate, I must now say "good on you Google!"
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
(Posting AC because I'm at work, not because I'm going to get modded into the stone age for what I'm about to say...)
Google ... described its filing with European regulators as a pre-emptive measure against a developing legal hazard for Android partners. The threat is that if phone makers perceive a significant legal risk in using Android...
Um, if there's a legal hazard in using Android, maybe that means Google/manufacturer's should license patents from Microsoft (or others). I know the current belief on /. is that everybody should be able to make whatever they want, even if they copy someone else's work but, ignoring whether or not I agree with that view, that's simply not how the world works. Sorry - it isn't. The world works such that, if you invent it and you patent it, you have the right to get paid when someone else uses it (or outright block them from using it for a time). You may not like that, and many don't, but that's how the world works. Not just the US - the world. Google may view that as a problem but the solution is simple - build Android so that it doesn't infringe on any patents or license the patents so that there's no legal risk.
I know I'll be in the minority on this one but, sorry - the system is what the system is. It's simple, design around the patent or license it. Or don't and deal with the consequences.
"they may opt instead for Microsoft's Windows Phone software"
No one is going to do that.
-- I care not for your foolish signatures.
Same agenda, only now the desktop isn't at stake, it is the mobile market sector. Same FUD, different day. Linux was proven and hardened after SCO, but in many ways it was too late, the tech world had moved on. MS is hoping for more of the same.
I'd like to see redHat, Suse, Canonical, etc do the same thing over the UEFI controls coming up. That really needs to be taken out of their hands.
This is kinda like the agreement microsoft made with immersion whereby any $$$ immersion sucked out of sony for their vibration technology in console controllers, microsoft would get half of the prize money. It could also been seen that the money microsoft paid to immersion for the vibration license was used to help immersion got after sony.
Lets also not forget thatthe current head of nokia is a ex microsoft executive.
Hopefully someone will listen to their complaint before they are forced to take matters into their own hands.
And I think everyone also sees the next step, which is retaliation. Google just bought all those Motorola patents, and having them shut down Nokia and Apple with all those 17-year-old cell phone patents would really be a step up in the Mutually-Assured-Destruction conflict, and everyone would suffer for it.
Taking this approach with the nukes in your back pocket seems much more civil than approach taken by the others.
-- Erich
Slashdot reader since 1997
Microsoft is suing Motorola (now Google) directly. Why the hell would they hide if they already do it openly and even if they do hide behind other companies how is this illegal? Can't a company pay another company to take care of patent fights?
The threat is that if phone makers perceive a significant legal risk in using Android, they may opt instead for Microsoft's Windows Phone software."
What part of this is illegal? Isn't this how patents are supposed to work?
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Not only do they extract out of android phone makers many times more than make from their own windows phones but now they want to extract cash out of google as well.
If miscrosoft spent less time sabotaging, suing and backstabbing their partners and more time innovating and focussing on their own products, maybe their company would experience more growth. Only then would it be able to turn its reputation around like IBM has.
Proof?
Just remember we have Steve Jobs to thank for this whole mess of mobile patent wars. Yes, him.
“I will spend my last dying breath if I need to, and I will spend every penny of Apple's $40 billion in the bank, to right this wrong,” Jobs said in Isaacson’s book, Steve Jobs. “I'm going to destroy Android, because it's a stolen product. I'm willing to go thermonuclear war on this.” http://www.generalpatent.com/remembering-steve-jobs
Google, as of late, you're just as f*cked up as microsoft.
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
Googles thinks Microsoft is sending proxies to do its legal work, or at the least is trying to convince someone of that fantasy?
Microsoft hasn't shown any problems going after Android makers openly and directly. Sure it doesn't always make the front page but that's because Microsoft wants to licence the technology, not use the patents to block companies from the market entirely like Apple. This has always been Microsoft's business stategy from all the back in the days when it was Bill writing BASIC interpreters - find a place in the middle of the supply or technology chain so that no matter what company or product consumers are wild about this day of the week, Microsoft is getting paid somehow. A 'horizontal' instead of vertical market integration. That Android phone in your hand? Microsoft got paid a cut of it. I believe the slashdotter term is 'the Microsoft tax'.
Either Google is on a conspiracy bent to try and explain why so many companies have dirt on them without considering that maybe it's because they copied from all of them to assemble Android, or they're just cooking up so they can get Microsoft beat up by the EU bigwigs the way Opera did.
Apple is in the process of having HTC complaints against them dismissed by the ITC due to lack of standing. It seems that Google transferred five patents key to HTC complaint just prior to the filing with the ITC (less than week). The ITC hasn't ruled on Apple's motion, but it indicates that HTC is acting as Google's proxy in this matter.
Feel free to google it.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Here the links for stories discussing HTC acting as Google's proxy:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/09/google-to-htc-take-these-patents-keep-fighting-apple/
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-07/htc-sues-apple-alleging-infringement-of-four-u-s-patents.html
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57435572-37/apple-wants-to-squelch-five-google-patents-issued-to-htc/
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
They've been getting away with it for a while. Check out the situation with Dual Shock on the PS3.
Immersion decides to patent troll the gaming industry over rumble force feedback, claiming they have the patents on it even though as a corporation they eschewed simple "rumble".
So MS settles with Immersion, giving Immersion money with the requirement that they continue to press their case against Sony and that MS will get a cut of any monies from those suits if there is a settlement.
We find out about it when MS discovers the risk of deal with an extortionist with low morals after Immersion takes the money from Sony and runs.
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/196042/microsoft-lands-force-feedback-payout/
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
HTC is not a patent troll. MOSAID is, e.g., non-practicing entity. The distinction is huge. HTC is a very large licensee of Android who was attacked by Apple for the express purpose of an outright shutdown. Not only was that an attack on HTC but it was an attack on Android itself. Of course Google is not going to stand there with their dicks in their hands. Contrast this with what MS and Nokia are doing. They bought a bunch of patents for the express purpose of transferring them to a text book patent troll to attack Android. Google is not attacking Windows phone and they are not attacking Nokia. The patents they transferred to HTC were for defense purposes against Apple. You can try to draw ridiculous parallels until the cows come home but ultimately as we saw with Oracle vs Google it's up to the court to sort it out. Armchair Google haters and paranoid tin hat wearers everywhere notwithstanding.
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
I never said HTC is a patent troll. What I did say is that Google has used HTC as a proxy in its fight against Apple.
You can try to finesse the facts but it doesn't negate the fact that HTC is acting as a proxy for Google in that patent case against Apple.
Nice ad-hominem attack. I don't hate Google, in fact I use a lot of their services. I just pointed out that Google also uses proxies in its patent battles.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Or even a -2 Flat Out Lie
Hopefully this will finally lead to a revolution in the patent system. There is absolutely nothing more damaging I can think of than when frustrating competitors is a better business tactic than innovation. The abuse of the patent system needs to stop, fast!
> Because last I checked this specific anti-trust complaint is about Nokia and Microsoft backing patent trolls.
Did you really check it? Or are you just wearing your fanboy blinders?
They're an investor in the biggest patent troll around, Intellectual Ventures.
http://www.iam-magazine.com/blog/Detail.aspx?g=2f9ac708-83af-42b9-9d3d-5fdf39fdc482
This space for rent.
"Sometimes, google requieres a phone number for creating new accounts."
Since you didn't give a case where this was true, I fail to see where you get your whine from.
Unless, as your PP said: "Google Voice, which it's required you do since its inception, because it needs it in order to work properly." and Google+ which isn't taking off. In which case, why answer with what you've already had admitted?
It IS a pain in the arse when it keeps nagging you, but I keep skipping.
"Seeking to have" rather than "having" would be more accurate.
Actually, what it shows is that when Apple launched a patent attack on HTC over importing devices using Google software -- that is, launched an attack-by-proxy on Google and the entire Android ecosystem through HTC -- Google handed HTC the ammunition to retaliate against Apple.
Since Apple has attacked HTC for allegedly improperly exercising Apple's patents by using Google software on HTC devices, they are hardly in a position to argue credibly that HTC lacks a bona fide domestic industrial use of the patents transferred from Google merely because HTC was a patent licensee rather than the patent owner until shortly before the complaint was issued.
Just because someone argues for something in a legal case (and just because it convinced Florian Mueller) doesn't mean it is credible.
I just pointed out that Google also uses proxies in its patent battles.
No, you said:
You mean like how Google used HTC as their proxy?
Implying that the Google/HTC/Apple situation is anything like the current situation when it isn't. You are trying to disingenuously draw parallels between two disparate situations in an attempt to paint Google as the bad guy when the two situations are so different that the parallel you are drawing is basically completely false. This has been discussed ad nauseum, you have been marked the Flamebait that you are and sibling posters have called you out on your ignorance. But please continue showing us all how much of a dumbass you are.
Google continues to aid the Chinese government oppression of it's people. They care more about patent law than human rights. Way to not be evil Google.
Meanwhile, Google is using proxy companies to infringe on others' intellectual property rights in the mobile arena and funds it with its monopoly in search.
You claimed that, but pointed to evidence of Google supporting HTC only after Apple attacked HTC as a proxy for Google. That is, while there is a sense that HTC is a proxy for Google in the Apple-Google patent war, its because Apple choose to make HTC such a proxy by attacking HTC as a way of attacking Android, not because Google made them a proxy.
Must have offended the Google fanboys.
I really appreciate it when someone who actually does that work steps up and let us know what's really going on. I like the phone number idea as that assures me that I'm going to get a password reset message if someone tries to make trouble with my account. I also have never received unsolicited phone calls as a result of my disclosure of my phone number to Google. I have an Android phone, so it makes sense anyway.
The post by IamTheRealMike is one of the reasons I enjoy reading Slashdot. I am always looking for posts like that to educate myself. It is that spirit that brings me back over and over again.
So thanks, IamTheRealMike.
The diversity and expression of human opinion is essential to human survival.
When you file a complaint with the EU or ITC to ban the importation of a product, you file a claim against that product's manufacturer. You act like Apple purposely went after HTC as a proxy to Google.
I agree. However the same thing can be said about Google's claims against Microsoft and Nokia. In both cases, a claim is being made to the EU and in both cases a finding has not been made. So how is this case different from Apple's?
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
For anti-trust avenue to stick there ususally has to be a monopoly component either already having one to begin with or some illegal collusion scheme to get one. MS has no market share of any kind at least none worth mentioning and there is no reason to believe this would change significantly even with patent proxies in play.
Looking at it the other way google has a huge slice of the market. Its no cost licensing is essentially dumping because it costs more than nothing to create a mobile operating system unless those costs are subsidised externally.
Either way using patents in a competitive war rather than improving the value your products provide is a lose lose lose for all but the lawyers.
I hope the world takes note of the huge loss of time, progress and productivity their illogical laws are inflicting on all of us. Fucking disgusting.
That's because Apple purposely went after HTC as a proxy to Google, to wit, they weren't just going after HTC, they were trying to increase the perceived cost to hardware vendors of making and selling Android devices and, by that means, of stopping -- or at least slowing -- Google's erosion of Apple's position as a supplier of mobile operating systems and all the things (app sales, online advertising, e-book sales) where Google and Apple compete where Apple's position is driven by the market position of its mobile OS.
This is inconsistent with your characterization of the Apple vs. Google situation, where you presented Apple's characterization as fact, and even the remedy Apple was seeking as if it was predetermined.
Well, not the part about being endorsed by paid Microsoft shill Florian Mueller, but yes, you shouldn't accept Google's claims as fact just because Google claimed them. Were someone doing that, it might be relevant to point that out in response to to that person. But...that's not what you did.
Well, no, the United States International Trade Commission (where the HTC complaint against Apple is being made) is not an organ of the European Union.
Original complaints to regulators and decisions by regulators on complaints aren't the only source of information in the world.
That's not the issue. You've made the "glass houses" charge, which isn't supported by merely observing that the complaint the target of the charge has made against others has also been made against the complainant. To support the position you have staked out against Google, you need to show evidence that they have actually done what they accuse others of doing, not that they have merely been accused of of the same thing they accuse others of doing.
Is it hard to breathe with your head so far up Google's ass?
Google you have Billions so just pay up and stop being a whiney bitch. For some crazy reason you think that you should be able to use everybody else's hard work for free so you can show your adverts to make money. How much do you pay to spider the billions of pages on the WWW that you use to make up your search engine? Nothing. How much to you pay to your Gmail users so you can data-mine their private emails? Nothing. How much do you pay for using 1000's of patented technologies in your Andriod operating system? Nothing. For christ sake they who battle with Oracle over Java copyrights could have been solved if you GPL'd Andriod to be compatible with GPL'd Java, but no instead you just stole it. Before Eric Schmidt your moto used to be "Do No Evil" and it meant something. Now Google you are just another free loading cheap skate, you are the guy who turn up to a party with 4 beers and gets rotten drunk on everybody else's beer, then has the balls to try take 2 beers home because you didn't actually drink all of your own.
AC asked, "Finding my mother's maiden name is easier than using a phone book?"
About twelve seconds on Facebook?
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Yeah, what the hell Microsoft and Nokia! We paid for Motorola patents to be able to use them in court... where do you get off trying to that, without publically shelling out the cash!?
Bow before me, for I am root.
Didn't Apple sue HTC first? Comparing Google supporting its partner to protect Android to Microsoft and Nokia using proxies to harass other companies is just silly.
Clever signature text goes here.
well I found out, it is a damn WAR between money loving greedy already rich banksters( thats why im on this website checkin for your little squabbles ) I love chrome but when my computer needs microsoft IE or wtf ! ever it tries to get thru ie, chrome freaks out like battle time I shouldnt have to be in your war waiting for my computer to get done fighting your battle! get over it money aint all there is people! YOU fuck up cyberspace! ride your mighty dollar like a magik carpet to the moon! dont come back! for cryin out loud greed needs to send you to the moon ! work together for the damn good of ALL or fuck off n die thank you ! and have a nice day !!! no wonder I am confused 7 dazed! I AINT NO DAMN ANNYOMOUS WTF EVER shehyatte@yahoo.com !!! because I dont "join" ur shit dont make me a coward fuck you !