I think I'm not wrong in saying you have NEVER been to China.
And that you are making statements, again, based on INCREDIBLY ignorant, preconceived notions.....I'm shocked by how authoritatively you can make a statement that is so completely false.
Ahh, well, forgive me for being so inconsiderate of the need for people who have no personal connection to the tragedy to cope in such a manner. It's clearly affecting them *so* strongly, and I must be wrong to have assumed otherwise.
Ah, well, like I said, I'm not brushed up on the history of land claims. It's a common topic - around the world - and a very testy one, so I won't go there.
I mean, also, America kind of fucking invaded America and have been migrating Europeans there, totally diluting the American population, so I don't *quite* think that's a strong point you've made.
You're saying protest was merited. Granted. But burn shops and kill people and shit, and there'd better be some arrests.
The Economist, I trust, is a reputable enough source?
The destruction was systematic. Shops owned by Tibetans were marked as such with traditional white scarves tied through their shutter-handles. They were spared destruction. Almost every other one was wrecked.
and...
For hours the security forces did little. But the many Hans who live above their shops in the Tibetan quarter were quick to flee. Had they not, there might have been more casualties. (The government, plausibly, says 13 people were killed by rioters, mostly in fires.) Some of those who remained, in flats above their shops, kept the lights off to avoid detection and spoke in hushed tones lest their Mandarin dialect be heard on the streets by Tibetans. One Han teenager ran into a monastery for refuge, prostrating himself before a red-robed Tibetan abbot who agreed to give him shelter.
I'm a little surprised though, that the burden of proof should be on me here. It makes me wonder where you get your sources of information, that you would doubt it so heavily and then sternly warn me to not use Chinese press.
If you take BBC or CNN, it's going to be focused entirely on the Chinese response, and not the riots and destruction. If you take local Chinese news, it's going to be focused on the destruction caused to the Chinese people. Since we're not there, the best we can do is find the most firsthand sources we can, or read it all and acknowledge the balance necessary.
If you'd like, I can look for those sources in the morning, or maybe someone else can corroborate me (I need to sleep now). It's out there - on youtube, even on some western media sources.
But, are you trying to say that this is not what happened?
That shops were not destroyed, that only the Tibetan shops with white flags hung up were spared?
You'd be wrong; if you can get a source other than preconceived notions, I'd like to see it.
I'm going to have to agree that his methods aren't exactly going to win him popularity points, and it's overdone and unnecessary on what should be a more civil forum.
But, as I've been 'all over' this article too, I feel like I should respond to your statement.
I've known people you can apply "Chinese nationalist fanboy" or "government apologist" label to. It's frightening. I don't think you quite realize the difference between a true "fanboy", as you say, and someone who just knows more (for instance, regarding Tibet). Our media here in the West is full of bias. But that's a discussion for another time.
But in my case, I feel that, knowing friends who have family in the region, I have a different perspective on this than would most./er's, and it's something that (I hope) is insightful. A reminder that though we may personally be disconnected to these natural disasters (as would be the case for me for the tsunami of 2005 or the recent cyclone in Myanmar), not all of us are. And the comments that are made do come off as ignorant, insensitive, and hurtful.
I think...that you are a little misinformed of what exactly went down in Tibet.
Let's take race and country out of the equation, and make no mistake, I'm not standing up for the Chinese government, and I have no special knowledge or comments to make about who really has the best claim to what land, etc. But anyways:
Mass organized rioters cause mayhem in the streets. Burning shops - mind you, not the special shops marked with white flags, those were 'saved' - killing people. A disgusting lack of respect for life.
Put that in America, and you (better) have martial law and a huge crackdown.
Put that in China, and you have an oppressive regime stamping out political freedoms.
It's almost comical...were it not so sad.
Re:Well, look at it this way...
on
Earthquake In China
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Okay, I've been modded flamebait; fair enough, I can't argue that. Maybe I can make my point a little more moderately.
OP, it's like saying, oh, well, 1300 Americans died as a result of Hurricane Katrina. That's [n] less arrogant American pigs, who deserved it anyway.
Hey, I live in America, and I do not agree with - and completely resent - such a statement. I'm sure others would similarly be outraged if comments like that were made after Hurricane Katrina hit. But that that is what you are saying, with respect to China.
Your point of view is fine and reasonable; and your bravery of not hiding behind AC is surely to be commended by all who read your posts.
It's just that when you say, "Dude, chill, we have enough people on the planet" you tend to come off as, well, an insensitive clod. Hopefully nobody says that to you when someone you know dies.
Excuse me, I actually do have friends in Sichuan Province.
To answer your question: no, you do not react to all human death the same way, and yes, the intensity depends on the strength of the bond. You're actually correct.
Now, I suggest you read the parent, which suggests that this is Mother Nature's way of population control, and tell me again that I'm taking an unreasonable moral high ground.
By Richard A. Kerr ScienceNOW Daily News 12 May 2008 Researchers fear that the magnitude-7.9 earthquake that struck near the major city of Chengdu today will easily be China's biggest killer since 1976's Tangshan quake, conservatively estimated to have taken 250,000 lives. "I would think there's going to be horrific loss of life in this one," says seismologist Lucile Jones of the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) office in Pasadena, California. The all-too-familiar combination of millions of people living by a major fault rupture in quake-vulnerable structures makes for an inevitably bad outcome, she says.
One of us is missing something here. That's the same link posted to in the story, yes?
The most heart-tugging line from an article I've read on this is that of a man and woman walking away from rubble, the man sheltering the woman as she cries, "My child is dead! dead!"
Unfortunately, earthquakes cannot be prevented. I hope that in the future these areas - particularly ones so prone to earthquakes in the first place - are able to respond better.
Taco Cowboy, I know you're getting a lot of negative responses, but I agree with you and appreciate that *someone* has some sense on their head around here.
Unfortunately, for most, it's all fun and games until it's their family and friends involved.
And some people will do anything in the hopes of getting modded 'funny.' Pathetic, really...
Slashdot Mirror
....
....I'm shocked by how authoritatively you can make a statement that is so completely false.
I think I'm not wrong in saying you have NEVER been to China.
And that you are making statements, again, based on INCREDIBLY ignorant, preconceived notions.
Ahh, well, forgive me for being so inconsiderate of the need for people who have no personal connection to the tragedy to cope in such a manner. It's clearly affecting them *so* strongly, and I must be wrong to have assumed otherwise.
Ah, I think you've read too fast too.
It says "Researchers fear it could be the biggest SINCE Tangshan, which had a death toll of 250,000."
Ah, well, like I said, I'm not brushed up on the history of land claims. It's a common topic - around the world - and a very testy one, so I won't go there.
I mean, also, America kind of fucking invaded America and have been migrating Europeans there, totally diluting the American population, so I don't *quite* think that's a strong point you've made.
You're saying protest was merited. Granted. But burn shops and kill people and shit, and there'd better be some arrests.
http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10875823
The Economist, I trust, is a reputable enough source?
and...
I'm a little surprised though, that the burden of proof should be on me here. It makes me wonder where you get your sources of information, that you would doubt it so heavily and then sternly warn me to not use Chinese press.
If you take BBC or CNN, it's going to be focused entirely on the Chinese response, and not the riots and destruction. If you take local Chinese news, it's going to be focused on the destruction caused to the Chinese people. Since we're not there, the best we can do is find the most firsthand sources we can, or read it all and acknowledge the balance necessary.
If you'd like, I can look for those sources in the morning, or maybe someone else can corroborate me (I need to sleep now). It's out there - on youtube, even on some western media sources.
But, are you trying to say that this is not what happened?
That shops were not destroyed, that only the Tibetan shops with white flags hung up were spared?
You'd be wrong; if you can get a source other than preconceived notions, I'd like to see it.
Mmhm, humor IS a coping mechanism.
But, I think it's pretty clear that the funny guys here aren't doing it to cope, yes? So it's a comment that falls quite on deaf ears.
Fair enough. Given the original poster, your response is certainly understandable, at least.
Thank you.
Yeah, a lot of times emotions just get the better of us. I can certainly understand why anyone would react very negatively to Taco's comments.
Aha! You're correct. I read too fast. I'll have some crow now.
I'm going to have to agree that his methods aren't exactly going to win him popularity points, and it's overdone and unnecessary on what should be a more civil forum.
./er's, and it's something that (I hope) is insightful. A reminder that though we may personally be disconnected to these natural disasters (as would be the case for me for the tsunami of 2005 or the recent cyclone in Myanmar), not all of us are. And the comments that are made do come off as ignorant, insensitive, and hurtful.
But, as I've been 'all over' this article too, I feel like I should respond to your statement.
I've known people you can apply "Chinese nationalist fanboy" or "government apologist" label to. It's frightening. I don't think you quite realize the difference between a true "fanboy", as you say, and someone who just knows more (for instance, regarding Tibet). Our media here in the West is full of bias. But that's a discussion for another time.
But in my case, I feel that, knowing friends who have family in the region, I have a different perspective on this than would most
I think...that you are a little misinformed of what exactly went down in Tibet.
Let's take race and country out of the equation, and make no mistake, I'm not standing up for the Chinese government, and I have no special knowledge or comments to make about who really has the best claim to what land, etc. But anyways:
Mass organized rioters cause mayhem in the streets. Burning shops - mind you, not the special shops marked with white flags, those were 'saved' - killing people. A disgusting lack of respect for life.
Put that in America, and you (better) have martial law and a huge crackdown.
Put that in China, and you have an oppressive regime stamping out political freedoms.
It's almost comical...were it not so sad.
Okay, I've been modded flamebait; fair enough, I can't argue that. Maybe I can make my point a little more moderately.
OP, it's like saying, oh, well, 1300 Americans died as a result of Hurricane Katrina. That's [n] less arrogant American pigs, who deserved it anyway.
Hey, I live in America, and I do not agree with - and completely resent - such a statement. I'm sure others would similarly be outraged if comments like that were made after Hurricane Katrina hit. But that that is what you are saying, with respect to China.
I appreciate this post.
Sometimes, for the sake of those who are or may be affected, it is better to keep silent if you have nothing sensible to say.
But I can certainly identify with feeling disconnected and foreign to great tragedies that have no personal bearing on me.
Your point of view is fine and reasonable; and your bravery of not hiding behind AC is surely to be commended by all who read your posts.
It's just that when you say, "Dude, chill, we have enough people on the planet" you tend to come off as, well, an insensitive clod. Hopefully nobody says that to you when someone you know dies.
Y'know, there's a time to make these fervent stands for political freedoms and human rights. But - ah - now just isn't it.
I don't think that Youtube is blocked in China. I could be wrong, of course.
Ohhh, well, I'm glad that this tragedy hasn't made a downer out of someone who's obviously not affected by it in any way.
And I'm sure that the countless who've lost friends and family to this will glaze over with warm-hearted fuzziness at these comforting words.
Hey, maybe you'll even get modded funny.
The building didn't appear to suffer any damage in the video, and it looks like the people just got off with a scare - though it's hard to tell.
Earthquakes cover large areas. Had it been in a more epicentric region, with collapsing buildings, well, you wouldn't have a video.
Moral high ground?
Excuse me, I actually do have friends in Sichuan Province.
To answer your question: no, you do not react to all human death the same way, and yes, the intensity depends on the strength of the bond. You're actually correct.
Now, I suggest you read the parent, which suggests that this is Mother Nature's way of population control, and tell me again that I'm taking an unreasonable moral high ground.
Thanks for putting this so clearly and succinctly. I cannot agree with you more.
The things people do to act cool...
Looks like *someone*'s been indoctrinated, and I'll give you a hint, he's a heartless loser...
First: wow, only 10,000. -roll- what an obviously insubstantial number.
Second:
One of us is missing something here. That's the same link posted to in the story, yes?
Talk about RTFA?
The most heart-tugging line from an article I've read on this is that of a man and woman walking away from rubble, the man sheltering the woman as she cries, "My child is dead! dead!"
Unfortunately, earthquakes cannot be prevented. I hope that in the future these areas - particularly ones so prone to earthquakes in the first place - are able to respond better.
Taco Cowboy, I know you're getting a lot of negative responses, but I agree with you and appreciate that *someone* has some sense on their head around here.
Unfortunately, for most, it's all fun and games until it's their family and friends involved.
And some people will do anything in the hopes of getting modded 'funny.' Pathetic, really...