US government's purchasing power to promote competition and make Microsoft behave;
Boo-hoo! Instead of beating Microsoft in the marketplace, it appears now that Ralph and his band of merry socialists want to use the heavy hand of Government to manipulate the OS market. Why does every problem require a government solution for Mr. Nader? If you don't like Microsoft, don't use their products, tell your friends not to use their products, tell your employer not to use Microsoft and go set up a stupid Geocities free web page telling the world not to use Microsoft. Eventually, if you are not some unbathed OS zealot, people might start to listen. If they don't, don't go crying to Uncle Sam.
I have no problem with the Government diversifying their OS platform for protection against worms, trojans, viruses and other security issues but this is nothing more than Nader bashing Microsoft and trying to use the US Government as the club. Trying to get HIS way, not America's way. The market has already shown America's desires.
I don't remember electing Nader to anything, anyways (but I am glad he runs). Yet, he is constantly trying to bypass our elected officials and influence the bureaucracywith threats of legal action and media assaults. Sometimes, I wish he would have been a an avid Corvair driver.
Disclaimer: I don't even like Microsoft operating systems! I just don't know what's worse, dealing with Windows or listening to Nader's griping!
That when the Government screws up, its the citizens that get punished for the mistake? I couldn't believe last week that the FBI's solution to its screw up was to give itself new powers so they can make sure that I go to confession before taking a communion. Spying in churches? Is nothing sacred anymore!?!?
I used to run a Cat-Fur BBS called the Psychodelic Cat-Fur (409). The Novation AppleCat ][ was an amazing modem for its day and had features you don't see on current modems. The thing was a phreakers dream. It could produce any tone you wanted from a couple lines of AppleBasic. But my favorite feature was voice synthesis. I used to prank call with my Apple//e using that ability -- it had a handset so you could listen in. What would freak out a farmer more than a computer generated voice warning from the US Agriculture Department that a biblical swarm of locus are desending upon Southeast Texas?
I got my start in network communications running BBSes off my Apple ][+ and Apple//e. We used to call it the golden age of Apple. I ran what was called an AE-BBS and a CatFur BBS (for the Novation AppleCat ][+ modem 1200 baud half duplex -- great for making prank calls with its text to speech feature). Man those were the days. I was young, ignorant of the law and meeting people from all over the United States. It was a great experience even though I couldn't tell my classmates in school I did for fear of being called a nerd and having my rodeo friends beating me up.
My last BBS was called the PsychedelicCat-Fur BBS in the 409 area code -- Redneck Texas!
He's not saying that it is a violation of the GPL.
I was left with the impression that RMS was attacking UnitedLinux for violations of GPL because he urged software developers to "Use the GNU GPL". To me, that sounded like a threat of legal action.
I think that he is more concerned about software that is included on the distro that is not covered by the GPL. For example if they include software that is under BSD - they are under no obligation to release the source.
Fire up a web browser and you are about 99.99% likely to find the BSD source code online in 2 to 3 minutes. RMS shouldn't look at the rest of us as a bunch of drooling idiots. His advocacy of GPL hits the absurd when he starts to bitch about the BSD license. Who is he to determine what I release my code under?
Thanks for your insight. However, I don't see a constraint on the GPLed code as it is freely availble from UnitedLinux. It sounds as if UnitedLinux is adding "service" value to their distro by utilizing a non-GPL installer -- a support issue more than a software issue. Am I right in thinking that the per seat license is for technical support or is it only for software? I think that is what governing my opinion in this matter.
But this only deals with the binaries not the source code which UnitedLinux provides. So they are not selling the source but their effort in compilation and configuration. This seems to be more of a support issue than a selling software issue.
How dare you judge him for judging RMS! What gives you the right to judge other people's ability to judge the public activities of RMS? This is an incredibly childish argument commonly heard on daytime trash talk TV shows. I am now waiting for the classic, "I know you are but what am I?", comeback.
RMS is griping about a per seat license being charged by the UnitedLinux group. Ok, RMS griping is nothing new, but according to the GPL (as best as I can understand it) as long as the original source code is released with the binaries, UnitedLinux is free to charge a price for their distribution. I have never heard gripes about RedHat or Mandrake selling CDs from RMS. Why should selling binaries with access to the source code be a violation of the GPL? UnitedLinux is not limiting freedom as Microsoft does contrary to the (outrageous) claims of RMS.
What am I missing? Is UnitedLinux truly as evil as Microsoft for selling a standardized binary set with source code on the side? Or is RMS just tired of capitalism?
Man the Greenies are vicious today!:) I think this is a great case of over moderation. A whole 10 points wasted. I post at Score: 2 to start with. Imagine if those points would have been used on other worthwhile posts.
So wait, all this time all of my chemistry, environmental science & politics, real world experience, and ecology courses have just been telling a fib to me?!?!!
Politics, eh? Wouldn't be the first time that science would be polluted by Politics. Remember the first earth day? They would worried about the coming Ice Age. Then we had the Population Bomb, then Global Famine, and then to top it off Mass Extinction. All these things were predicted (as fact) by environmentalist scientists, chemists and ecologists. So yes, they have been telling fibs from a long time as none of these events have occurred. Now we talk about Global Warming and I have been freezing my ass off the whole month of May in NYC when its usually is in the 80s.
Your reasoning is specious, at best.
Your reasoning is politically clouded at best, Al Gore, III. Its amazing that you think man is more powerful than nature. How truly arrogant you are.
If you think any environmentalists give a shit about Cher or Woody Harrelson, you have NO idea what is going on in the world.
So why do Greenpeace and all the rest constantly put celebs in the spotlight?
All these celebrities really do is give morons like yourself easy targets to use to argue against environmentalists.
Ouch, you called me a moron. I must be wrong then because you insulted me.
As if Sting and Bono have anything to do with people's natural feelings that perhaps clear-cutting the main oxygen producing organisms on the planet might just be a bad idea, or that cutting toxic emissions might just be a good idea...
A square yard of Johnson grass will provide a family of four enough CO2 to O2 conversion for their entire lives. If you are into cutting toxic emissions, you might want to cap all the world Volcanos as they produce more toxic chemicals in the air each year than man does.
The funny part is that you are parroting the same diatribe that celebrities use when hawking their environmental policies. Along with the personal insults, you are such the stereotypical "environmentalist".
Pot. Kettle. Black. Give Sting a kiss on the cheek next time you see him.
Damn those all-powerful treehuggers and their regulatory stranglehold! What the hell do we need environmental controls for anyhow? Our generation will be dead or in the old folks home by the time the real damage starts to set in. Fuck the future, I WANT CHEAPER OIL! If I can't get gasoline for my 8 ton SUV at $1 a gallon, then the terrorists have already won.
Typical childish Greenie response. Instead of mocking me, why not head over to the EPA website and read about the nonsense that oil drillers have to go through to pull and transport the oil out of the ground in the US. I always find it interesting that Greenies have no problem with Dark Skinned people pulling oil out of their ground. Guess its ok to protect Whitey but not Arabs from environmental damage. Also, wouldn't you rather a truck in Texas to carry the oil from the well than a SuperTanker carrying it across thousands of miles of ocean to make it to Texas for processing?
Bad analogy. While the supply of air on the planet is finite, it's also constantly being regenerated quicky, on a large scale by the ecosystem.
From the research provided by Texas A&M, the replacement of the oil fields is occuring while they are drilling! That means that this is not a slow process but a very fast one on geologic terms. The argument that "oil is finite" was bad to start. I was being a smartass in my reply (duh!) as everything is finite except space and human stupidity.
We go to war, remove governements and in the past colonized dozens of countries to maintain a steady supply of oil.
Generally they piss us off before we do that. It just so happens that countries that have lots of oil have a tendency to be assholes like Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia (biggest assholes on the planet) and Kuwait. So far we haven't invaded Canada or Russia which have more oil than Arabian countries.
If it oil is such a great fuel source, then why do we keep subsidizing the oil industry?
We are always saying people are our number one resource but we subsidize them too! Are you suggesting we get rid of them too as a primary resourse?
For those of you that care the editorial written by Mr Bartlett referenced above is the result of work done by the National Center for Policy Analysis. A rather conservitive group whos self proclaimed mission statement includes the following:
So only liberal organizations can be correct about the environment even though all the doom and gloom predictions we have gotten have all turned up false? Population Bomb? Global Famine? Mass Extinction? The Coming Ice Age? Interesting...
Remeber the first Earth Day in the 70s warned us of the coming ice age. Now only 30 years later, we get the complete opposite. We have to worry about "Global Warming".
Also please note that the theory upon which all of this argument is based is one put forth by a Mr Thomas Gold. An Astronomer. Not a geologist... an Astronomer.
I will take the word of an Astronomer over a movie star or rock star any day of the week when dealing with environmental issues. Heck, I will take Bjorn Lomborg or Patrick Moore over an Astronomer.
The trend is inescapable. Oil CAN NOT be infinite.
Neither is the air supply on Earth infinite so if you are a true environmentalist, I guess you could stop breathing or at least, cut down on that activity.
You know, I'm from Texas. And if i remember right, the REASON all of this oil just laying around Texas isn't being mined is because it isn't cost-effective to do so.
If i remember right, all those countries in the middle east can pump oil out of the ground so much cheaper than the Texans can, that huge as the Texas oil market is, by and large the *bulk* of the Texan oil supplies just aren't worth the bother of tapping unless for some reason the global price of oil rises so high that it makes pumping oil out of Texas profitable
Well Howdy! I grew up in Beaumont before moving to Yankeeland, so you know, I know oil.:)
The main reason its so expensive to pull oil out of the ground in America is due to the Greenies and their Government mandated regulations which the Arabs do not have to deal with. I find it ironic that the Greens do everything they can to make domestic production expensive but don't complain that our oceans have fleets of oil tanker carrying crude across the Atlantic to Texas for processing.
Maybe Iceland is doing this less for environmental reasons than that they don't want to send money to texas? Maybe they don't like trade deficits, and they want to take all that money that was being sent to import coal and oil and such and make it stay within their relatively small economy?
Well if they don't want my oil, I don't what to buy what they export. By the way, what does Iceland export besides Bjork albums and its own citizens (my good friend is Icelandic)?:)
First of all, there is a finite supply of fossil fuels on the planet.
There is a finite supply of air on the planet so I suggest you stop breathing.
What's amazing to me is how many people acknowledge all the flaws in the current energy system, and nevertheless refuse to think seriously about ways to improve it.
Its not that we love fossil fuels but currently they are the only economically viable fuel source we have. I would love to have a Porche powered by a Solar Panels but it ain't going to happen today or in the next 20 years.
My rule is strive for Utopia but deal with reality.
You've got that right. We've got this Solaris guy who smells like the county fair... damn. The guy with the Ti Powerbook? - He smells like a GQ magazine.
It's time for Bjorn Lomborg to make a visit to Iceland. The world is not running out of fossil fuels. But its really hard to tell an "environmentalist" anything because they are under the spell of the noted environmental scientists like Woody Harrelson, Cher, Sting and Bono. Because as we all know, if a rock star or movie star makes a scientific claim, it must be true! (Liberacé's Law of Relativity) They would never use your emotional attachment to clean air and water to boost their careers.
If you think you are running out of oil, Iceland, instead of acting like a silly celebrity thinking the sky is falling, call my friends down in Texas. I am sure they will be happy to sell you some oil from the massive underwater oil fields in the Gulf of Mexico. Its so abundant in the Gulf that if you SCUBA dive to the bottom you can see oil leaking from the sea floor all by itself. After that call, give Sting a ring and see where all that money that was donated to his Amazon forest campaigns went because it sure didn't go to the trees (the trees have no wallets or bank accounts...believe it or not).
If you haven't provided and support or code to the project,I hardly see how you have a basis for mocking/complaining about the progression.
A basis for complaining or mocking? Please. Its called freedom. If someone sees something worth scorn, its their right to unleash it. For all the puffery of RMS and his short sighted ideology towards Linux (Fuck the GNU/Linux business), to have HURD after 8-10 years of development to be nothing more than a crash test dummy kernel is worth a ton of scorn. Maybe if RMS would get off his moral hobby horse and spent that time putting down code, maybe he would not be the laughing stock of the Open Source movement. Even Linus is getting into the act of laughing at RMS.
Linus is a do-er, RMS is a talker. I respect do-ers.
After reviewing the moderated comments on this thread, I have come to the conclusion that RMS has become the joke of the Open Source movement like Milli Vanilli became the joke of music industry. Everyone of the higher modded posts was "Funny".
But I guess when you release a kernel that has 8 years of development and it can barely keep a machine running, you are a joke. I am sure Bill Gates is laughing his ass off.
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Boo-hoo! Instead of beating Microsoft in the marketplace, it appears now that Ralph and his band of merry socialists want to use the heavy hand of Government to manipulate the OS market. Why does every problem require a government solution for Mr. Nader? If you don't like Microsoft, don't use their products, tell your friends not to use their products, tell your employer not to use Microsoft and go set up a stupid Geocities free web page telling the world not to use Microsoft. Eventually, if you are not some unbathed OS zealot, people might start to listen. If they don't, don't go crying to Uncle Sam.
I have no problem with the Government diversifying their OS platform for protection against worms, trojans, viruses and other security issues but this is nothing more than Nader bashing Microsoft and trying to use the US Government as the club. Trying to get HIS way, not America's way. The market has already shown America's desires.
I don't remember electing Nader to anything, anyways (but I am glad he runs). Yet, he is constantly trying to bypass our elected officials and influence the bureaucracywith threats of legal action and media assaults. Sometimes, I wish he would have been a an avid Corvair driver.
Disclaimer: I don't even like Microsoft operating systems! I just don't know what's worse, dealing with Windows or listening to Nader's griping!
That when the Government screws up, its the citizens that get punished for the mistake? I couldn't believe last week that the FBI's solution to its screw up was to give itself new powers so they can make sure that I go to confession before taking a communion. Spying in churches? Is nothing sacred anymore!?!?
Novation AppleCat ][
14 was so cool. :P
My last BBS was called the PsychedelicCat-Fur BBS in the 409 area code -- Redneck Texas!
Oh, please, that is so 1995. Quit showing your age!
I was left with the impression that RMS was attacking UnitedLinux for violations of GPL because he urged software developers to "Use the GNU GPL". To me, that sounded like a threat of legal action.
I think that he is more concerned about software that is included on the distro that is not covered by the GPL. For example if they include software that is under BSD - they are under no obligation to release the source.
Fire up a web browser and you are about 99.99% likely to find the BSD source code online in 2 to 3 minutes. RMS shouldn't look at the rest of us as a bunch of drooling idiots. His advocacy of GPL hits the absurd when he starts to bitch about the BSD license. Who is he to determine what I release my code under?
Thanks for your insight. However, I don't see a constraint on the GPLed code as it is freely availble from UnitedLinux. It sounds as if UnitedLinux is adding "service" value to their distro by utilizing a non-GPL installer -- a support issue more than a software issue. Am I right in thinking that the per seat license is for technical support or is it only for software? I think that is what governing my opinion in this matter.
But this only deals with the binaries not the source code which UnitedLinux provides. So they are not selling the source but their effort in compilation and configuration. This seems to be more of a support issue than a selling software issue.
How dare you judge him for judging RMS! What gives you the right to judge other people's ability to judge the public activities of RMS? This is an incredibly childish argument commonly heard on daytime trash talk TV shows. I am now waiting for the classic, "I know you are but what am I?", comeback.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
What am I missing? Is UnitedLinux truly as evil as Microsoft for selling a standardized binary set with source code on the side? Or is RMS just tired of capitalism?
Man the Greenies are vicious today! :) I think this is a great case of over moderation. A whole 10 points wasted. I post at Score: 2 to start with. Imagine if those points would have been used on other worthwhile posts.
Politics, eh? Wouldn't be the first time that science would be polluted by Politics. Remember the first earth day? They would worried about the coming Ice Age. Then we had the Population Bomb, then Global Famine, and then to top it off Mass Extinction. All these things were predicted (as fact) by environmentalist scientists, chemists and ecologists. So yes, they have been telling fibs from a long time as none of these events have occurred. Now we talk about Global Warming and I have been freezing my ass off the whole month of May in NYC when its usually is in the 80s.
Your reasoning is specious, at best.
Your reasoning is politically clouded at best, Al Gore, III. Its amazing that you think man is more powerful than nature. How truly arrogant you are.
If you think any environmentalists give a shit about Cher or Woody Harrelson, you have NO idea what is going on in the world.
So why do Greenpeace and all the rest constantly put celebs in the spotlight?
All these celebrities really do is give morons like yourself easy targets to use to argue against environmentalists.
Ouch, you called me a moron. I must be wrong then because you insulted me.
As if Sting and Bono have anything to do with people's natural feelings that perhaps clear-cutting the main oxygen producing organisms on the planet might just be a bad idea, or that cutting toxic emissions might just be a good idea...
A square yard of Johnson grass will provide a family of four enough CO2 to O2 conversion for their entire lives. If you are into cutting toxic emissions, you might want to cap all the world Volcanos as they produce more toxic chemicals in the air each year than man does.
The funny part is that you are parroting the same diatribe that celebrities use when hawking their environmental policies. Along with the personal insults, you are such the stereotypical "environmentalist".
Pot. Kettle. Black. Give Sting a kiss on the cheek next time you see him.
Typical childish Greenie response. Instead of mocking me, why not head over to the EPA website and read about the nonsense that oil drillers have to go through to pull and transport the oil out of the ground in the US. I always find it interesting that Greenies have no problem with Dark Skinned people pulling oil out of their ground. Guess its ok to protect Whitey but not Arabs from environmental damage. Also, wouldn't you rather a truck in Texas to carry the oil from the well than a SuperTanker carrying it across thousands of miles of ocean to make it to Texas for processing?
I was talking about the U2 lead singer as Sonny Bono currently is in the process of turning into a fossil fuel.
From the research provided by Texas A&M, the replacement of the oil fields is occuring while they are drilling! That means that this is not a slow process but a very fast one on geologic terms. The argument that "oil is finite" was bad to start. I was being a smartass in my reply (duh!) as everything is finite except space and human stupidity.
We go to war, remove governements and in the past colonized dozens of countries to maintain a steady supply of oil.
Generally they piss us off before we do that. It just so happens that countries that have lots of oil have a tendency to be assholes like Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia (biggest assholes on the planet) and Kuwait. So far we haven't invaded Canada or Russia which have more oil than Arabian countries.
If it oil is such a great fuel source, then why do we keep subsidizing the oil industry?
We are always saying people are our number one resource but we subsidize them too! Are you suggesting we get rid of them too as a primary resourse?
So only liberal organizations can be correct about the environment even though all the doom and gloom predictions we have gotten have all turned up false? Population Bomb? Global Famine? Mass Extinction? The Coming Ice Age? Interesting...
Remeber the first Earth Day in the 70s warned us of the coming ice age. Now only 30 years later, we get the complete opposite. We have to worry about "Global Warming".
Also please note that the theory upon which all of this argument is based is one put forth by a Mr Thomas Gold. An Astronomer. Not a geologist... an Astronomer.
I will take the word of an Astronomer over a movie star or rock star any day of the week when dealing with environmental issues. Heck, I will take Bjorn Lomborg or Patrick Moore over an Astronomer.
The trend is inescapable. Oil CAN NOT be infinite.
Neither is the air supply on Earth infinite so if you are a true environmentalist, I guess you could stop breathing or at least, cut down on that activity.
Well Howdy! I grew up in Beaumont before moving to Yankeeland, so you know, I know oil. :)
The main reason its so expensive to pull oil out of the ground in America is due to the Greenies and their Government mandated regulations which the Arabs do not have to deal with. I find it ironic that the Greens do everything they can to make domestic production expensive but don't complain that our oceans have fleets of oil tanker carrying crude across the Atlantic to Texas for processing.
Maybe Iceland is doing this less for environmental reasons than that they don't want to send money to texas? Maybe they don't like trade deficits, and they want to take all that money that was being sent to import coal and oil and such and make it stay within their relatively small economy?
Well if they don't want my oil, I don't what to buy what they export. By the way, what does Iceland export besides Bjork albums and its own citizens (my good friend is Icelandic)? :)
There is a finite supply of air on the planet so I suggest you stop breathing.
What's amazing to me is how many people acknowledge all the flaws in the current energy system, and nevertheless refuse to think seriously about ways to improve it.
Its not that we love fossil fuels but currently they are the only economically viable fuel source we have. I would love to have a Porche powered by a Solar Panels but it ain't going to happen today or in the next 20 years.
My rule is strive for Utopia but deal with reality.
You should smell an AS/400 admin! PU! :)
If you think you are running out of oil, Iceland, instead of acting like a silly celebrity thinking the sky is falling, call my friends down in Texas. I am sure they will be happy to sell you some oil from the massive underwater oil fields in the Gulf of Mexico. Its so abundant in the Gulf that if you SCUBA dive to the bottom you can see oil leaking from the sea floor all by itself. After that call, give Sting a ring and see where all that money that was donated to his Amazon forest campaigns went because it sure didn't go to the trees (the trees have no wallets or bank accounts...believe it or not).
A basis for complaining or mocking? Please. Its called freedom. If someone sees something worth scorn, its their right to unleash it. For all the puffery of RMS and his short sighted ideology towards Linux (Fuck the GNU/Linux business), to have HURD after 8-10 years of development to be nothing more than a crash test dummy kernel is worth a ton of scorn. Maybe if RMS would get off his moral hobby horse and spent that time putting down code, maybe he would not be the laughing stock of the Open Source movement. Even Linus is getting into the act of laughing at RMS.
Linus is a do-er, RMS is a talker. I respect do-ers.
But I guess when you release a kernel that has 8 years of development and it can barely keep a machine running, you are a joke. I am sure Bill Gates is laughing his ass off.
Firewire and USB work perfectly on my BSD system. Its called MacOS X.