With this, I guess the GOP's chances of redeeming themselves by letting go of the corporate backscratching will lose forward momentum. Without additional engines in the party, there's no steam left to do some good in the copyright world.
The infastructure needed to host your own site (to any meaningful degree) is a major detractor. Plus the genuine risk of getting flooded or worse, especially these days, makes a free website with much of your community already in place is a big plus for them.
PIPA and SOPA may not go far, but censorship is already here because most people like to hang out in only a handful of places.
It's going to be like the rail industry in the old days. Only a few sites will control access to destinations.
But even here, I see a better performer in BSD as opposed to Linux. The firewall I currently use is OpenBSD, and I have not had any issues with it. BSD - Linux sour grapes aside, the OpenBSD guys do have a point. Linux is messy!
My firewall PC is an old PackardBell: CyrixM processor 333Mhz with 128Mb RAM.
The only problems I get are with Linux and it's endurance and maintenance. Particularly installations that use ISOLinux ( Look for older BIOS issues ) This never occurred in OpenBSD. Even on my own builds, it's messy. There's over reliance on the parent distribution when I compile. And I can't compile an app on one OS and run it on another. It's all nonstandard code. (e.g. RedHat / SUSE with the one possible exception of a few tricks. But all that trouble for a firewall? )
Back to Windows:
Your note on Windows performance tells me right away, the system is not optimized. A server with that much horsepower should do MUCH better than what you described.
Easy to use means easy to use. It doesn't mean insecure.
On Windows just as in any other OS, you can still do a better job if the intricacies of it are understood. The service tweaking in *NIX OS's must be done in Windows too.
Your comment on wishing to remove the Windows GUI tells me you haven't done all that you could to optimize the system. And possibly denotes a lack of experience with Windows.
And the bottom line was "specific tasks". As in ease of use as well as security and performance. For which Windows ( with adequate measures ) does very well.
I'm sorry for the bad temper, but this type of thing really bothers me.
Almost like when people complain about GNU apps on newsgroups and say "it doesn't work", "doesn't do it well" or "that will never work". This going back to Avalanche which was thrown out without giving it a chance. Unjust!
>As long as you don't need java for anything No I don't... And that wasn't what my posts were about. Did I mention Sun anywhere?
>For "productivity"? Especially! Like I said before, I don't want my users (FYI: Artists) to worry about anything but their work. Which is what never happens on Linux. If they don't need extra steps. They are NOT tech savy and they don't even know what GCC is. I just want them to enjoy the work experience while being as productive as they can. Impossible in Linux.
>It's not cross-platform C BLOODY #!! I don't care what framework it is. I can have.Net applications run on FreeBSD (BSD#) as well as WindowsXP. I've been playing around with a C# app that works similar to DynDNS's dynamic DNS system. Both client (Windows) and server (FreeBSD) running C# code.
>anti-spy/ad/malware I suppose there's no need ClamAV. And there are no adware removers for Linux?
>Maybe you should fact check before flaming. Not once! Never! I didn't make arbitrary decisions on operating systems or software. I didn't personally assault anyone. I argued a point and it became heresy. Then people started childish namecalling... >Bill, is that you?
I actually USED Linux before drawing a conclusion. And stating my opinion for which some people appear peeved.
>I'm sure/.'ers are asking themselves that about your post. And I say "Compassion for those who deserve it" These/.'ers' posts weren't the ones I used to read. The posts I used to read actually had substance and most of them gave GREAT insight.
>SMTP/POP3/IMAP mail, web hosting (dynamic sites with Gallery and Drupal), DNS, IP routing, firewall, etc etc for 6 domains including 3 businesses
A professional webhost would look at that an be appauled!
But... Your network and your specific needs. Not mine. I never generalized anyone's needs and overcomplement an operating system based on an assumption. My post was a response to unrelated ( and mostly untrue ) remarks that strayed from Avalanche P2P. And as to how, when properly implemented, Microsoft can perform.
>Contrarily, I have a box running Windows Server 2003 as a domain controller for my family that also hosts a few ASP.Net pages and acts as a source control and build server. It's a 1.8Ghz Celeron with 256mb ram and 20GB hd.
Hence my remark on "specific tasks". But that doesn't matter now does it?
>In my experience, the only people who argue that Linux isn't "useful" on old hardware are people who have never tried it.
I HAVE used Linux ( countless distros and my own compiles ) for years. I've used it and been more frustrated with it than more times than I can count. I've used it for desktop, server and firewall. Again, with distros ( SmoothWall, IPCop, ClarkConnect etc.. as well as my own stripped down compiles ).
But the original post had to do with Avalance for which I saw people critisizing the Microsoft OS and its business practices! Completely unrelated, which is why I had to respond.
>The windows box is constantly pissing me off due to its slowness. Takes 30-45 seconds to log in
Again "Specific tasks"... Gee I wish people would follow their own advice on open minded ideals before removing posts.
>The windows box is constantly pissing me off due to its slowness
Guranteed misconfiguration. How many services did you stop from auto startup? I bet you did that in Debian.
My Windows server: 800 Mhz 512Mb RAM. ASP.Net portal I use with MSDE installed. Even with the load of external network users connecting all the time as well as on the intranet, it has one of the fastest response times on the network.
>If I could uninstall the GUI on the Windows box I would do it in a heartbeat
You don't fix a broken leg with an arm cast. You do it with a leg cast. The GUI isn't the problem.
>I have no use or need for a GUI so X is not installed My users DO need a GUI ( kinda hard to do image editing without one ). And I wasn't talking about their server interaction, It was their desktops. Again "Specific tasks". As in applications... As in the start of the thread with Avalanche.
>though once compiled they usually pop just fine). Bingo! That's why its there. For that purpose.
>They are also not useful nor insightful
I see this happening over and over again, and I guess it won't change. Whenever some comment about particular purposes and their associating OS's are mentioned, no one wants to hear it if its in Microsoft's favour. When did SlashDot go from "News for Nerds. Stuff that matters" to "You're not welcome to offer an alternative view"? It matters to me and a hell of a lot of other people here.
>I think you're rambling incoherently / trolling here. What you're trying to get at, is not at all clear.
One person makes a suggestion contrary to popular sentiment and get's accused of trolling. On SlashDot?? No way!
>by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21, @09:10AM (#12871306) >Sounds like Windows....Is OK?
>by buanzo (542591) on Tuesday June 21, @11:55AM (#12872763) >Full of holes that will allow... people, to do cool [nasty, ok] things? yep., sounds like windows, then....Is OK?
>by denelson83 (841254) on Tuesday June 21, @11:37AM (#12872592) >Avalanche? That's actually what Microsoft will end up buried in, only it won't be snow, it might just be trash in a landfill....Is OK?
Have a good day sir!
RE: "If you forget about all the stuff that makes it less productive, Windows is more productive than Linux."? There are very few things in Windows that make it less productive than it could be. Not one will bring it below Linux.
I use FreeBSD on 4 servers ( DNS, Mail, NNTP ). Windows Server 2003 on 1 server ( intranet portal ). For their specific tasks they do EXTREMELY well I use WindowsXP Pro on 12 workstations. For it's specific tasks as well as ancillary jobs it does EXTREMELY well. I deal with people on outside networks that have trouble with HTML forms... I'm supposed to teach these people SSH? What's productive in our opinion is irrevelant if we are admins of a network. What can my user base accomplish with the utmost ease of use and security? That's all I care.
Forcing an operating system or other software on anyone based on personal convictions and loose assumptions is immortal, arrogant, and counter productive. Yet, I see it here everyday!
I want my users to do their work easily, securely and quickly, with plenty of interoperability with many hardware devices without worrying about anything else.... ANYTHING else!
>Avalanche? That's actually what Microsoft will end up buried in, only it won't be snow, it might just be trash in a landfill.
Unless we all give up capitalism for an agrarian society, not bloody likely. As we speak, Verizon inc of U.S.A. is working with Microsoft to bring cable TV via FIOS. If the OS market won't cut it ( extremely unlikely ) then there are a million other avenues Microsoft can take and still be top dog.
As for dated, repetitive, and misplaced, stability issues; to quote a famous programmer... "Testing? What's that? If it compiles, it is good, if it boots up, it is perfect." -- Linus Torvalds
After FreeBSD, I'll take Microsoft over anything else.
A properly configured and maintained Windows machine with an adequate firewall and antivirus measures is far more productive and reliable than any Linux box, thanks. ( Please leave the "I can run Linux on my 8 year old machine" remarks out. I said productive. Not a toy that boots up and does a few tricks. )
Amazing how hate for the developer company can do more damage to software than any exploit. If it's from MS, it's immediately half assed right? So let's just dump the.NET Framework already....Oh wait. That's cross-platform.
> "Vaporware is technically correct: you can't download and use Avalanche. But you may be able to in a year or two."
You WILL be able to in a year or two.
-Cassius
P.S.
"Score:2, Insightful" BULLSHIT!!!
What insight?! Avalanche IS NOT an operating system. It's a bloody APPLICATION. How can it be insightful, if the one posting it can't make the distinction???
Slashdot Mirror
With this, I guess the GOP's chances of redeeming themselves by letting go of the corporate backscratching will lose forward momentum. Without additional engines in the party, there's no steam left to do some good in the copyright world.
The infastructure needed to host your own site (to any meaningful degree) is a major detractor. Plus the genuine risk of getting flooded or worse, especially these days, makes a free website with much of your community already in place is a big plus for them.
PIPA and SOPA may not go far, but censorship is already here because most people like to hang out in only a handful of places.
It's going to be like the rail industry in the old days. Only a few sites will control access to destinations.
Are you employed, sir?
...is that Facebook is actually having to deal with the consequences of their shady shenanigans!
This! And Cuban (stating the obvious) summed it up nicely : "I Wouldn't Buy Facebook Stock"
I apologize if I misinterpreted.
:
:
But even here, I see a better performer in BSD as opposed to Linux.
The firewall I currently use is OpenBSD, and I have not had any issues with it.
BSD - Linux sour grapes aside, the OpenBSD guys do have a point. Linux is messy!
My firewall PC is an old PackardBell
CyrixM processor 333Mhz with 128Mb RAM.
The only problems I get are with Linux and it's endurance and maintenance.
Particularly installations that use ISOLinux
( Look for older BIOS issues )
This never occurred in OpenBSD.
Even on my own builds, it's messy.
There's over reliance on the parent distribution when I compile. And I can't compile an app on one OS and run it on another. It's all nonstandard code. (e.g. RedHat / SUSE with the one possible exception of a few tricks. But all that trouble for a firewall? )
Back to Windows
Your note on Windows performance tells me right away, the system is not optimized. A server with that much horsepower should do MUCH better than what you described.
Easy to use means easy to use.
It doesn't mean insecure.
On Windows just as in any other OS, you can still do a better job if the intricacies of it are understood. The service tweaking in *NIX OS's must be done in Windows too.
Your comment on wishing to remove the Windows GUI tells me you haven't done all that you could to optimize the system. And possibly denotes a lack of experience with Windows.
And the bottom line was "specific tasks". As in ease of use as well as security and performance. For which Windows ( with adequate measures ) does very well.
I'm sorry for the bad temper, but this type of thing really bothers me.
Almost like when people complain about GNU apps on newsgroups and say "it doesn't work", "doesn't do it well" or "that will never work". This going back to Avalanche which was thrown out without giving it a chance.
Unjust!
>As long as you don't need java for anything
.Net applications run on FreeBSD (BSD#) as well as WindowsXP.
l 01
/.'ers are asking themselves that about your post. /.'ers' posts weren't the ones I used to read.
No I don't... And that wasn't what my posts were about. Did I mention Sun anywhere?
>For "productivity"?
Especially! Like I said before, I don't want my users (FYI: Artists) to worry about anything but their work. Which is what never happens on Linux.
If they don't need extra steps.
They are NOT tech savy and they don't even know what GCC is.
I just want them to enjoy the work experience while being as productive as they can.
Impossible in Linux.
>It's not cross-platform
C BLOODY #!!
I don't care what framework it is. I can have
I've been playing around with a C# app that works similar to DynDNS's dynamic DNS system. Both client (Windows) and server (FreeBSD) running C# code.
>count the hours spent running
RE: Security software...
http://www.grisoft.com/doc/Networks/lng/us/tpl/tp
>anti-spy/ad/malware
I suppose there's no need ClamAV.
And there are no adware removers for Linux?
>Maybe you should fact check before flaming.
Not once! Never!
I didn't make arbitrary decisions on operating systems or software. I didn't personally assault anyone. I argued a point and it became heresy. Then people started childish namecalling...
>Bill, is that you?
I actually USED Linux before drawing a conclusion. And stating my opinion for which some people appear peeved.
>I'm sure
And I say "Compassion for those who deserve it"
These
The posts I used to read actually had substance and most of them gave GREAT insight.
>SMTP/POP3/IMAP mail, web hosting (dynamic sites with Gallery and Drupal), DNS, IP routing, firewall, etc etc for 6 domains including 3 businesses
:
A professional webhost would look at that an be appauled!
But...
Your network and your specific needs. Not mine.
I never generalized anyone's needs and overcomplement an operating system based on an assumption. My post was a response to unrelated ( and mostly untrue ) remarks that strayed from Avalanche P2P. And as to how, when properly implemented, Microsoft can perform.
>Contrarily, I have a box running Windows Server 2003 as a domain controller for my family that also hosts a few ASP.Net pages and acts as a source control and build server. It's a 1.8Ghz Celeron with 256mb ram and 20GB hd.
Hence my remark on "specific tasks". But that doesn't matter now does it?
>In my experience, the only people who argue that Linux isn't "useful" on old hardware are people who have never tried it.
I HAVE used Linux ( countless distros and my own compiles ) for years. I've used it and been more frustrated with it than more times than I can count. I've used it for desktop, server and firewall. Again, with distros ( SmoothWall, IPCop, ClarkConnect etc.. as well as my own stripped down compiles ).
But the original post had to do with Avalance for which I saw people critisizing the Microsoft OS and its business practices! Completely unrelated, which is why I had to respond.
>The windows box is constantly pissing me off due to its slowness. Takes 30-45 seconds to log in
Again "Specific tasks"... Gee I wish people would follow their own advice on open minded ideals before removing posts.
>The windows box is constantly pissing me off due to its slowness
Guranteed misconfiguration. How many services did you stop from auto startup? I bet you did that in Debian.
My Windows server
800 Mhz 512Mb RAM.
ASP.Net portal I use with MSDE installed.
Even with the load of external network users connecting all the time as well as on the intranet, it has one of the fastest response times on the network.
>If I could uninstall the GUI on the Windows box I would do it in a heartbeat
You don't fix a broken leg with an arm cast.
You do it with a leg cast. The GUI isn't the problem.
>I have no use or need for a GUI so X is not installed
My users DO need a GUI ( kinda hard to do image editing without one ). And I wasn't talking about their server interaction, It was their desktops. Again "Specific tasks".
As in applications... As in the start of the thread with Avalanche.
>though once compiled they usually pop just fine).
Bingo!
That's why its there. For that purpose.
>They are also not useful nor insightful
I see this happening over and over again, and I guess it won't change.
Whenever some comment about particular purposes and their associating OS's are mentioned, no one wants to hear it if its in Microsoft's favour. When did SlashDot go from "News for Nerds. Stuff that matters" to "You're not welcome to offer an alternative view"?
It matters to me and a hell of a lot of other people here.
>I think you're rambling incoherently / trolling here. What you're trying to get at, is not at all clear.
...Is OK?
...Is OK?
...Is OK?
... ANYTHING else!
One person makes a suggestion contrary to popular sentiment and get's accused of trolling.
On SlashDot?? No way!
>by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21, @09:10AM (#12871306)
>Sounds like Windows.
>by buanzo (542591) on Tuesday June 21, @11:55AM (#12872763)
>Full of holes that will allow... people, to do cool [nasty, ok] things? yep., sounds like windows, then.
>by denelson83 (841254) on Tuesday June 21, @11:37AM (#12872592)
>Avalanche? That's actually what Microsoft will end up buried in, only it won't be snow, it might just be trash in a landfill.
Have a good day sir!
RE: "If you forget about all the stuff that makes it less productive, Windows is more productive than Linux."?
There are very few things in Windows that make it less productive than it could be. Not one will bring it below Linux.
I use FreeBSD on 4 servers ( DNS, Mail, NNTP ). Windows Server 2003 on 1 server ( intranet portal ). For their specific tasks they do EXTREMELY well
I use WindowsXP Pro on 12 workstations. For it's specific tasks as well as ancillary jobs it does EXTREMELY well.
I deal with people on outside networks that have trouble with HTML forms... I'm supposed to teach these people SSH?
What's productive in our opinion is irrevelant if we are admins of a network. What can my user base accomplish with the utmost ease of use and security?
That's all I care.
Forcing an operating system or other software on anyone based on personal convictions and loose assumptions is immortal, arrogant, and counter productive.
Yet, I see it here everyday!
I want my users to do their work easily, securely and quickly, with plenty of interoperability with many hardware devices without worrying about anything else.
>Avalanche? That's actually what Microsoft will end up buried in, only it won't be snow, it might just be trash in a landfill.
.NET Framework already. ...Oh wait. That's cross-platform.
Unless we all give up capitalism for an agrarian society, not bloody likely.
As we speak, Verizon inc of U.S.A. is working with Microsoft to bring cable TV via FIOS.
If the OS market won't cut it ( extremely unlikely ) then there are a million other avenues Microsoft can take and still be top dog.
As for dated, repetitive, and misplaced, stability issues; to quote a famous programmer...
"Testing? What's that? If it compiles, it is good, if it boots up, it is perfect."
-- Linus Torvalds
After FreeBSD, I'll take Microsoft over anything else.
A properly configured and maintained Windows machine with an adequate firewall and antivirus measures is far more productive and reliable than any Linux box, thanks.
( Please leave the "I can run Linux on my 8 year old machine" remarks out. I said productive. Not a toy that boots up and does a few tricks. )
Amazing how hate for the developer company can do more damage to software than any exploit.
If it's from MS, it's immediately half assed right?
So let's just dump the
> "Vaporware is technically correct: you can't download and use Avalanche. But you may be able to in a year or two."
You WILL be able to in a year or two.
-Cassius
P.S.
"Score:2, Insightful"
BULLSHIT!!!
What insight?!
Avalanche IS NOT an operating system. It's a bloody APPLICATION.
How can it be insightful, if the one posting it can't make the distinction???