You know, I'm seriously considering writing an app that includes language to allow me to access your webcam and broadcast the results either to me or any other party. Talk about fun!
I followed the breadcrumb trail here (not realizing that I could switch ISPs, of course). The interesting thing was that they gave me this starter pack, which says:
Insert the CD (blah, blah), when the
Configuring Your DSL Modem screen appears, type [your key codes in the boxes].... when the Choosing a Modem Type screen appears, select the type of DSL modem you currently use...
The interesting thing here is that, naturally, I'm never connected to my modem-- the router is. And my Cisco 678 is protected by my passwords, which they don't ask for. I wrote to MS about this-- they told me to call them. I didn't bother. My service has been running under MSN for a month now, and I haven't had any problems. Sure, I can't get my MSN mail, but honestly, I'd rather choke on my own bile than use that address.
The MSN website had absolutely nothing about what their install disc did to your network config/router/modem. In fact, it made no reference whatsoever to routers. Or network configuration. Or what type of connection existed between the DSL modem and the CO. It was particularly uninformative. Qwest at least provided a reasonable
I'm moving in the summer, hopefully it'll hold out until then, after which I plan on switching to Earthlink.
My favourite part was the disclaimer in the back: "Use of this CD ROM is at the risk of the end user." Yeah, right, let me pop this right in...
You'd think that someone at the studios would realize that their ideal situation is one where thousands more people watch their content on demand. What they ought to do is distribute the content freely in a digital format (encoded), along with free players that force you to watch the corresponding ads. Why isn't this the best for everyone? But instead, of course, they're trying to prevent people from watching the broadcasts... very clever people.
Something here doesn't quite match-- you're talking about "scumbags" circumventing the law to achieve something that law-abiding citizens cannot.
What the original poster (or Larry Flynt) was saying was that if the law cannot hinder the action of "scumbags" it certainly cannot hinder anyone else. You start out with an example where the law stops everyone-- not the same thing at all.
Good analysis of the problem! I once saw a relatively normal psychological councilor during high school, and she just didn't get what I was talking about (I spoke with her later, and she's a very cool person, just not too understanding of pure geekiness).
This is a great idea. But... a major problem that you would face here is that you're trying to get a group of introverted and essentially distrustful (with good reason) people to open up to each other. That's tricky. How do you market something like this so it appears a valid resource to teenagers?
I wouldn't have even looked at anything claiming to be "a Big Brother/Sister group for geeks" in high school. Even having a guidance councilor suggest an established-and-cool group would make it look totally false to someone who dislikes school faculty. So how would you get the word out?
Or is this thread doing it? I'm not too familiar with organizing anything on the web, so does anyone have any suggestions?
I'd volunteer to befriend anyone who wants/needs someone to lean on, no problem.
Goliard deserves another 40 Karma for his last few posts...
I don't think it takes a whole lot of insight here to realize that yes, most of the people who fit this profile aren't really psychologically healthy. What geek would be? Society in general is apparently trying to subvert any attempts to stray from the mainstream (while simultaneously paying millions for VanGogh & Dali paintings). Many intelligent people learn how to do to minimum to get along without notice in first grade. Then comes the concern when their unchallenged school career creates a host of "bizarre" side interests.
This viewpoint isn't all that extreme-- the problem, I think, is in the blame. The "institution" (FBI, schools, etc) seem to think that the kids, and their behavior, are the problem to be fixed. I think that a very, very small portion of the population is disturbed to the point where they would naturally attack society without provocation, and most of these aren't really capable of functioning in normal society.
As a group of perpetially bullied, no one here doubts the fact that it's society that inevitably awakes this sort of hatred to begin with. Look at what Amphigory wrote, look at your own experience. Most people here (70-80-90%? 95%?) that felt "outcast" would have no problem whatsoever with the rest of society if it hadn't been entirely antagonistic to them. What would there be to attack? Kindness?
We're not talking about people who aren't intelligent, who can't handle the demands of what society claims to be (9-5 job, etc). It's the constant oppression from classmates, teachers, parents, etc, who never bothered to "accept" people unlike them.
So what do you do to fix this problem? NOW. We can't change the underlying problem overnight, and we need some mechanism to recognize those that need help. Though I was straightedge in high school, I didn't act it-- I had teachers suggest drug counciling. Yes, I fit the profile (minus the hatred of the preps/jocks, but I had a pretty tame suburban schooling). Yes, at some point I was manic and suicidal. Yes, I played with making explosives at home. Yes, I studied the occult (I did a verbal report on satanism in the 11th grade- just to push the envelope). Did I need help? I don't think so, but I knew people who did, who probably acted more tame in school. People who were later charged with various crimes.
Basically, I don't see the problem with teachers (or whoever) identifying people with these characteristics. Face it-- many of them (us) are the ones who cause serious problems, mainly because we're generally pretty damn clever, the lot of us. Intelligence and a mischievious nature cause ten times the trouble. People who can't read aren't going to be building too many bombs.
The really scary part is what people do with this profile. Look at what Rodentia wrote. This greatly disturbs me, especially as the father of a happy 2.5 year old daughter (yes, we do end up somewhat normal, but I'm still dying my hair blue tomorrow...;) What do you suggest we do with these people?
I remember being in high school, thinking what crap it was that people always thought the geeks were mentally unfit. After growing up and meeting a wider range of people, I realized that yes, we were fairly disturbed.
Personally, I am awed by some of the postings here, especially the personal experiences. Intelligence and a slightly unstable foundation (brain chemistry, home stress, bullying) seem to lead to remarkably eloquent miscreants. I like the results, but I hate the cause.
Hmmm... it seems that some people mistook me for a horrible bigot. My apologies.
If the guy is widely quoted in a publicly distributed article, then yes, he's doing PR work, even if it's not his main job. It's "Public Relations", and there he is, relating something to the public.
I had no doubt that the report was true, it just seemed ironic, okay? Likewise, I made no claims that he was an inherently evil person.
As for native names, well, believe me when I say I have a great respect for native americans and their languages, which are some of the most interesting on the planet. I love the way they have traditionally named things, including themselves. Disney's naming the antagonist in 101 Dalmations Cruella DeVil has nothing to do with maligning the French-- they just used their "style" of naming things.
If I had said something inflamatory like, "some stupid native american name," I'd understand people being offended. I'd bet that if I named someone, "Monsieur Nez-pomme" (Mister AppleNose) no one would get upset about my treatment of western europeans. I don't get it.
Personally, I loved developing in Delphi & Builder. Much, much better than X, much better than MFC.
But who the hell put a guy named "Swindell" in PR!?!? Come On! Is this some kind of joke?
Maybe I should buy my hardware from Mr. "Cheatum", too. Or his native-american counterpart, "He-Who-Sells-Things-That-Emit-Foul-Odors-And-Noxi ous-Smoke".
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is complete flamebait when posted to a geek forum. It's preposterous. The concept that geeks are "bombarded" by too much data is a bit, well, like saying that when the ice caps melt, the fish will have a little too much water. Sure, there's a problem here, but you're talking to the wrong segment of society.
Katz appears to be talking about a human difficulty that has existed since the industrial evolution. We're too busy. Every month someone suddenly looks around, pisses on the previous speaker, and says, "now we're really too busy." Well, yes. We were too busy last week too. Yes, we keep getting busier. Sure, technology helps (or was that hinders?). So does the sub-urbanization, the increasingly entertainment-based nature of society, and so on.
What Katz, along with most other negative-futures announcers, is missing here is a growing movement of simplification. Is this neo-ludditism? Not at all. Just doing less. It would appear that all you have to do to stay out of this insane media fray is take a walk. With your feet. Crazy, eh? You can even use your computer when you get back home.
And, get this, people are actually doing it. Those folks on the west coast have probably encountered this (I wouldn't know, I don't live there). I keeping seeing this made reference to more and more...
For my part, yes, I'm a programmer. I rarely use my computer at home for more than 3 hours a week. In fact, for about five months, I didn't have a home PC. I have other hobbies, like hiking. It's really pretty easy to avoid being consumed by this rabid, demonic media deluge.
Of course, for those who enjoy the rat's cage, you can keep pushing the e-pedal and the e-soma will just keep on coming...
No, no, you're all missing the point here. It's not the freedom to innovate in the world of software. That's too difficult; they just live by the happy maxim of "Buy or Stomp".
It's been obvious that Gates' sphere of innovation is that of business cruelty. When have you even seen such inventive and creative ways to gut competition and smile at the mindless consumers? Their ability is so awe inspiring that, well, they are mostly untouchable.
The whole "grassroots" effort here is a prime example of their innovation. It almost [ahem] makes you feel bad for them. Well, if you had no idea how completely evil they are.
The really, really beautiful part of this whole thing is the "grassroots" aspect. I mean, according to their thesaurus, synonyms of "grassroots" are: waged people, proletariat, working class, workers, masses, the herd and plebs [sic]. Last time I checked, a multi-billion dollar corporation hardly constitutes as a grassroots organizer.
If you want pure innovation, try using the MSDN help for Java. They go through great and inventive lengths to keep you from finding help on the standard class library. They just keep pushing you into the MS classes hierarchy... now that's the kind of innovation that made this country great!
I hope they all die, all of them.
P.S. [naive mode] Hey, I thought the MICROS~1 8.3 MS-DOS name conversions were pretty innovative. Anyone else?
I'd like to know just exactly how "low cost" Linux _is_ in terms of maintenance. I've set up NT and Linux boxes, and every time, it was quicker to prop up... er... set up NT. Of course, flexibility is a minimum, and so on.
But how to they propose having someone with enough of a clue in every dealership to get/keep this running? Office personnel that use computers daily don't even know what directories are anymore. And they expect that car salesman will do this without a problem...?
Face it, NT has more people to whine to, setup geared toward the complete idiot and little dancing paperclips that explain, in monosyllabic words, exactly what you should be doing.
GM might just need a big enough kick to get their asses moving into a constructive direction (i.e. Linux), but I seriously doubt that they'll be getting it from upper management.
Still, it's fantastic that Linux is getting this kind of press-- even if they're only considering it, it makes smaller non-legacy companies look toward it very favourably.
char *death_knell = "If we could change over quickly, if might make sense";
Slashdot Mirror
You know, I'm seriously considering writing an app that includes language to allow me to access your webcam and broadcast the results either to me or any other party. Talk about fun!
The interesting thing here is that, naturally, I'm never connected to my modem-- the router is. And my Cisco 678 is protected by my passwords, which they don't ask for. I wrote to MS about this-- they told me to call them. I didn't bother. My service has been running under MSN for a month now, and I haven't had any problems. Sure, I can't get my MSN mail, but honestly, I'd rather choke on my own bile than use that address.
The MSN website had absolutely nothing about what their install disc did to your network config/router/modem. In fact, it made no reference whatsoever to routers. Or network configuration. Or what type of connection existed between the DSL modem and the CO. It was particularly uninformative. Qwest at least provided a reasonable
I'm moving in the summer, hopefully it'll hold out until then, after which I plan on switching to Earthlink.
My favourite part was the disclaimer in the back: "Use of this CD ROM is at the risk of the end user." Yeah, right, let me pop this right in...
You'd think that someone at the studios would realize that their ideal situation is one where thousands more people watch their content on demand. What they ought to do is distribute the content freely in a digital format (encoded), along with free players that force you to watch the corresponding ads. Why isn't this the best for everyone? But instead, of course, they're trying to prevent people from watching the broadcasts... very clever people.
But then, there will always be ambiguous configurations. They just come up less than most people think.
Something here doesn't quite match-- you're talking about "scumbags" circumventing the law to achieve something that law-abiding citizens cannot.
What the original poster (or Larry Flynt) was saying was that if the law cannot hinder the action of "scumbags" it certainly cannot hinder anyone else. You start out with an example where the law stops everyone-- not the same thing at all.
Good analysis of the problem! I once saw a relatively normal psychological councilor during high school, and she just didn't get what I was talking about (I spoke with her later, and she's a very cool person, just not too understanding of pure geekiness).
This is a great idea. But... a major problem that you would face here is that you're trying to get a group of introverted and essentially distrustful (with good reason) people to open up to each other. That's tricky. How do you market something like this so it appears a valid resource to teenagers?
I wouldn't have even looked at anything claiming to be "a Big Brother/Sister group for geeks" in high school. Even having a guidance councilor suggest an established-and-cool group would make it look totally false to someone who dislikes school faculty. So how would you get the word out?
Or is this thread doing it? I'm not too familiar with organizing anything on the web, so does anyone have any suggestions?
I'd volunteer to befriend anyone who wants/needs someone to lean on, no problem.
Goliard deserves another 40 Karma for his last few posts...
Member of Geeks Anonymous, Local 318.
I don't think it takes a whole lot of insight here to realize that yes, most of the people who fit this profile aren't really psychologically healthy. What geek would be? Society in general is apparently trying to subvert any attempts to stray from the mainstream (while simultaneously paying millions for VanGogh & Dali paintings). Many intelligent people learn how to do to minimum to get along without notice in first grade. Then comes the concern when their unchallenged school career creates a host of "bizarre" side interests.
This viewpoint isn't all that extreme-- the problem, I think, is in the blame. The "institution" (FBI, schools, etc) seem to think that the kids, and their behavior, are the problem to be fixed. I think that a very, very small portion of the population is disturbed to the point where they would naturally attack society without provocation, and most of these aren't really capable of functioning in normal society.
As a group of perpetially bullied, no one here doubts the fact that it's society that inevitably awakes this sort of hatred to begin with. Look at what Amphigory wrote, look at your own experience. Most people here (70-80-90%? 95%?) that felt "outcast" would have no problem whatsoever with the rest of society if it hadn't been entirely antagonistic to them. What would there be to attack? Kindness?
We're not talking about people who aren't intelligent, who can't handle the demands of what society claims to be (9-5 job, etc). It's the constant oppression from classmates, teachers, parents, etc, who never bothered to "accept" people unlike them.
So what do you do to fix this problem? NOW. We can't change the underlying problem overnight, and we need some mechanism to recognize those that need help. Though I was straightedge in high school, I didn't act it-- I had teachers suggest drug counciling. Yes, I fit the profile (minus the hatred of the preps/jocks, but I had a pretty tame suburban schooling). Yes, at some point I was manic and suicidal. Yes, I played with making explosives at home. Yes, I studied the occult (I did a verbal report on satanism in the 11th grade- just to push the envelope). Did I need help? I don't think so, but I knew people who did, who probably acted more tame in school. People who were later charged with various crimes.
Basically, I don't see the problem with teachers (or whoever) identifying people with these characteristics. Face it-- many of them (us) are the ones who cause serious problems, mainly because we're generally pretty damn clever, the lot of us. Intelligence and a mischievious nature cause ten times the trouble. People who can't read aren't going to be building too many bombs.
The really scary part is what people do with this profile. Look at what Rodentia wrote. This greatly disturbs me, especially as the father of a happy 2.5 year old daughter (yes, we do end up somewhat normal, but I'm still dying my hair blue tomorrow... ;) What do you suggest we do with these people?
I remember being in high school, thinking what crap it was that people always thought the geeks were mentally unfit. After growing up and meeting a wider range of people, I realized that yes, we were fairly disturbed.
Personally, I am awed by some of the postings here, especially the personal experiences. Intelligence and a slightly unstable foundation (brain chemistry, home stress, bullying) seem to lead to remarkably eloquent miscreants. I like the results, but I hate the cause.
Hmmm... it seems that some people mistook me for a horrible bigot. My apologies.
If the guy is widely quoted in a publicly distributed article, then yes, he's doing PR work, even if it's not his main job. It's "Public Relations", and there he is, relating something to the public.
I had no doubt that the report was true, it just seemed ironic, okay? Likewise, I made no claims that he was an inherently evil person.
As for native names, well, believe me when I say I have a great respect for native americans and their languages, which are some of the most interesting on the planet. I love the way they have traditionally named things, including themselves. Disney's naming the antagonist in 101 Dalmations Cruella DeVil has nothing to do with maligning the French-- they just used their "style" of naming things.
If I had said something inflamatory like, "some stupid native american name," I'd understand people being offended. I'd bet that if I named someone, "Monsieur Nez-pomme" (Mister AppleNose) no one would get upset about my treatment of western europeans. I don't get it.
Personally, I loved developing in Delphi & Builder. Much, much better than X, much better than MFC.
But who the hell put a guy named "Swindell" in PR!?!? Come On! Is this some kind of joke?
Maybe I should buy my hardware from Mr. "Cheatum", too. Or his native-american counterpart, "He-Who-Sells-Things-That-Emit-Foul-Odors-And-Noxi ous-Smoke".
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is complete flamebait when posted to a geek forum. It's preposterous. The concept that geeks are "bombarded" by too much data is a bit, well, like saying that when the ice caps melt, the fish will have a little too much water. Sure, there's a problem here, but you're talking to the wrong segment of society.
Katz appears to be talking about a human difficulty that has existed since the industrial evolution. We're too busy. Every month someone suddenly looks around, pisses on the previous speaker, and says, "now we're really too busy." Well, yes. We were too busy last week too. Yes, we keep getting busier. Sure, technology helps (or was that hinders?). So does the sub-urbanization, the increasingly entertainment-based nature of society, and so on.
What Katz, along with most other negative-futures announcers, is missing here is a growing movement of simplification. Is this neo-ludditism? Not at all. Just doing less. It would appear that all you have to do to stay out of this insane media fray is take a walk. With your feet. Crazy, eh? You can even use your computer when you get back home.
And, get this, people are actually doing it. Those folks on the west coast have probably encountered this (I wouldn't know, I don't live there). I keeping seeing this made reference to more and more...
For my part, yes, I'm a programmer. I rarely use my computer at home for more than 3 hours a week. In fact, for about five months, I didn't have a home PC. I have other hobbies, like hiking. It's really pretty easy to avoid being consumed by this rabid, demonic media deluge.
Of course, for those who enjoy the rat's cage, you can keep pushing the e-pedal and the e-soma will just keep on coming...
If you want a true glimpse into the mind of a madman, go rent Exorcist III instead. It has some of the most bizarre acting on his part.
He has a lot of good scenes involving screaming things at people that have no business being screamed. It's a whole lot of fun.
No, no, you're all missing the point here. It's not the freedom to innovate in the world of software. That's too difficult; they just live by the happy maxim of "Buy or Stomp".
It's been obvious that Gates' sphere of innovation is that of business cruelty. When have you even seen such inventive and creative ways to gut competition and smile at the mindless consumers? Their ability is so awe inspiring that, well, they are mostly untouchable.
The whole "grassroots" effort here is a prime example of their innovation. It almost [ahem] makes you feel bad for them. Well, if you had no idea how completely evil they are.
The really, really beautiful part of this whole thing is the "grassroots" aspect. I mean, according to their thesaurus, synonyms of "grassroots" are: waged people, proletariat, working class, workers, masses, the herd and plebs [sic]. Last time I checked, a multi-billion dollar corporation hardly constitutes as a grassroots organizer.
If you want pure innovation, try using the MSDN help for Java. They go through great and inventive lengths to keep you from finding help on the standard class library. They just keep pushing you into the MS classes hierarchy... now that's the kind of innovation that made this country great!
I hope they all die, all of them.
P.S. [naive mode] Hey, I thought the MICROS~1 8.3 MS-DOS name conversions were pretty innovative. Anyone else?
I'd like to know just exactly how "low cost" Linux _is_ in terms of maintenance. I've set up NT and Linux boxes, and every time, it was quicker to prop up... er... set up NT. Of course, flexibility is a minimum, and so on.
But how to they propose having someone with enough of a clue in every dealership to get/keep this running? Office personnel that use computers daily don't even know what directories are anymore. And they expect that car salesman will do this without a problem...?
Face it, NT has more people to whine to, setup geared toward the complete idiot and little dancing paperclips that explain, in monosyllabic words, exactly what you should be doing.
GM might just need a big enough kick to get their asses moving into a constructive direction (i.e. Linux), but I seriously doubt that they'll be getting it from upper management.
Still, it's fantastic that Linux is getting this kind of press-- even if they're only considering it, it makes smaller non-legacy companies look toward it very favourably.
char *death_knell = "If we could change over quickly, if might make sense";