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Spyware Fights Back
sparcv9 writes "According to the latest issue of Spyware Weekly, the Radlight media player not only searches your hard drive for Adaware, but will uninstall it if found. How do they attempt to legitimize this? By including a clause in their EULA that reads: 'You are not allowed to use any third party program (e.g Ad-aware) to uninstall application bundled with RadLight. Such programs will be removed. If you want to uninstall them, you may do so via Add/Remove in Windows' Control Panel.' Yes, that's right. Not only do they say you are not allowed to use Adaware to remove their bundled apps, but they will forcibly remove Adaware for you to make sure you don't!" There's also a Newsbytes story.
is this legal?
and because they mention it in the EULA doesn't mean it's legal. Anyway, it's not like this player will be actually downloaded much.
Looks like we need Radlight-Lite (c.f. Kazza!)
Or Winamp of course. I've never even heard of RadLight
Spyware will do what is necessary for it to be effective. Kind of a non-story this, because I wouldn't expect anything else from spyware... Of course it's going to disable things that can find and remove it!
What's in a Sig?
Can't users who want Radlight install Adaware afterwards? The story mentions Radlight checks for and uninstalls Adaware files on its first run. I assume it doesn't do the check everytime it runs - if so, isn't a post-install an easy workaround?
hack into a spyware company's server? That in effect is what they are doing to my computer... I don't have any moral qualms about doing such things, but would the law care? I guess it also makes a difference where the spyware company is located, but what if it is the US?
I would like to give these bastards a taste of their own medicine...
a trojan horse?
Does anyone even use this program?
"The guide is definitive, reality is frequently inaccurate."
Download the acclaimed Ad Aware program here. It searches your registry and all your drives for running and installed spyware programs. It works great.
You're going to see more and more companies trying this sort of thing to prohibit you having software that they consider threatening on your computer. AOL used to screw with the setting of any competing ISP's on your system (on "accident"), IE used to cripple Netscape (on "accident"), and MSFT is now saying that you can't use some of their technology in conjunction with ANY GPL software. If we can't maintain our monopoly one way, we'll try another. This of course is a nasty step forward that even billg hasn't tried, but only because he knew there would be hell to pay. It's going to get worse before it gets better.
this is getting old and so are you
blog
...Microsoft, sensing that they can copy another great idea, changed its EULA today to uninstall Linux when any of its software is run on a machine in the same building.
-- We live in a world where lemonade is artificial and soap has real lemon.
It's one thing to add programs and fill your disk up with junk. But to actually remove a properly functioning, legal program like Ad-Aware almost seems like a targeted virus.
And why can't you uninstall parts of their program? What happened to custom installation?
This seems illegal to me.
If I weren't nailed to the penis, I'd be pushing up the daisies!
If you were saavy enough to download ad aware in first place, what is to stop you from reinstalling it and running it again once you've installed this product? The only ones who are going to get stuck with this spyware are people who didn't think to download ad-aware in the first place. Those who lose their copy to this will just chuckle and redownload it and remove the crapware that got installed with the product.
Basically these guys wasted a lot of effort for naught and just end up looking like scum to boot.
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
I see an upcoming forever loop, where the next version of adaware will reinstall itself and then uninstall radlight and then radlight will reinstall and uninstall adaware, etc. etc.
http://www.kubuntu.org/
This really isn't all that new. I'm the computer nerd in my dorm, so every week or two, someone's computer starts acting funny, and I'll have already installed Ad-Aware, and it's just that the spyware has inserted itself into Ad-Aware's ignore list, so it doesn't get touched.
If so, who the hell cares? If you're crazy enough to use that crap, then you should expect garbage like this!
If they can uninstall anti-spyware during the installation process, what is to stop M$ IE from uninstalling netscape when you install it? I can't believe that someone else thought of this idea first?
-- Adam
EULA are used like a wash-it-out taking all responsability and making your computer not even your own.
EULA may not even be legal in most country
The problem is that since nobody fight the legality of the EULA, spyware and other abuser (or even proprietary OS maker) will make "you" consummer accept more and more in the EULA until it comes cracking down.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
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Did anybody else notice the page that shows the first and last names of everyone who's registered? This company doesn't even respect the privacy of PAYING customers... now that's _LOW_
It's ugly. Gloves are coming off. Nobody tells me I can't uninstall software from my PC, ever. Anybody who does is going to go into the hurt locker for a long time.
Anyone besides me smell an arms race between ad-aware and these other guys?
Oh. And what if the ad-aware license text changes to say that other applications can't uninstall _it_? Will we have dueling license agreements?
- I traded my sig for a glock.
You shall hold harmless the author, publisher and vendor of this program for any damage that might be inflicted upon your soul^H^H^H^Hcomputer. Furthermore, you shall hold them harmless for any further damage to your person, any belongings and your neighbors.
Then it goes on to encrypt all their porn, you'd need to register to get the key to decrypt. I feel devious!
.derf
I hate to say it, but maybe it's time to take it to them. Maybe some of the DOS and virus engineers of the world would like some new targets that they won't get alot of people pissed about? how about they target these spyware bastards. they gotta be online somewhere. So why not return the favor ten fold? >:)
Wonder how that would be? Next time the user logs in, it will be Grub, lilo, or whatever...
S
... will spammers go to spam us with their Ads? I mean that is all that this spyware really is - is another form of spam. Visit and Support sites like: http://www.scumware.com
They have a wealth of information on how to fight back against the Ad-ware, Spy-ware, Scum-ware or whatever we are calling it today!
Take care,
Brian
--
--
100% Linux based Web Hosting
Friendly Service and Knowledgeable support
Here's the spywareinfo page:
April 22, 2002
URGENT WARNING!!
Users of Lavasoft's Adaware and developers of anti-spyware software need to be made aware of a shocking new development.
There is a software media player being distributed which searches for and removes Adaware if it is installed. Radlight media player has been tested by several testers and by the Adaware developer himself. Radlight, which bundles with the spyware application "Savenow" and with New.Net software, makes repeated searches for the installation of Adaware and removes it if found.
There is no mention whatsoever during installation of this software that it will remove any other software (text of the license below). This unethical and possibly illegal behavior has earned Radlight a spot on Adaware's next referencelist which is in development right now.
CORRECTION:
It turns out Radlight's newer version does contain a clause stating that Adaware's presence is in vioation of the EULA and that "such programs will be removed". Below is the relevant portion of the agreement.
LICENSE AGREEMENT
This software is provided 'as-is', without any express or implied warranty. In no event will the authors be held liable for any damages arising from the invalid use of this software. You are not allowed to use any third party program (e.g Ad-aware) to uninstall application bundled with RadLight. Such programs will be removed. If you want to uninstall them, you may do so via Add/Remove in Windows' Control Panel.
Nicholas Stark, owner of Lavasoft and developer of Adaware has declared that "Under no circumstances can we accept that a Malware purposely removes our software."
If you have this software installed on your computer, you should check that your installation of Adaware (if you've installed it) is unmolested, then uninstall Radlight. If you find that your installation of Adaware has been interefered with, please contact me immediately at admin@spywareinfo.com, and I will pass this along to the developer.
these Ad agencies completely SUCK. They have NO RIGHT to choose which software I do or do not have on my machine - - its a clear violation of ... oh hell.
I guess NOTHING is very clear - - except kiddy porn and botox shots.
Are they so desperate to hide behind a legal contract.
that can bite my shiny metal ass.
A EULA, like any contract, is void on it's face if it contains any illegal clauses. A software company could put in it's EULA, "If you use this software, we have the right to come into your home and take your firstborn". Even though you might click Agree, it's not enforceable.
Adaware/Radlight Install Pack
1. Read all directions before installing
2. Install Radlight
3. Install Adaware
Liora
This goes to show you how moronic the EULA are getting. They should be deemed illegal.
If it won't boot, Fsck it!
Most other media players SUCK
Windows media for the web, and movies
QuickTime and RealPlayer where they are REQUIRED
WinAmp for MP3's
Rules? There are no rules in core wars!
.. making Ad-Aware a circumvention device. Somebody should turn them in. I'd pay to see that trial.
http://216.194.92.96/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=226 (Radlight)
Here the programmer of Radlight handwaves a lot, claiming it was just to point out it was possible to do so (the removal of other apps while installing) and that if he hadn't someone else would.. geeee..
He's been caught redhanded, he ought to atleast apologise properly, and promtly stop doing it
Venlig Hilsen / Regards
John Hinge - shayera /
"Buffy I love you... Please God No!" S
...if they write it in their EULA.
Would it be legal to write in an EULA that my software X cannot be used on the same computer than software Y, and uninstall it without warning if it finds it?
Have Netscape, for instance, remove without warning Internet Explorer from your computer? (But have it written in small characters somewhere that you can't use another third party software to surf the web)
How about having a software running in background to ensure that you dont download a competing package?
People should make it clear that we, computer users, will not tolerate such things.
Why isn't McAfee etc putting these programs into their databases to not allow to be installed on their machines. Not only that, but creating rogue software that damages your system (uninstalls software you installed) is ILLEGAL AS ALL HELL. No EULA will hold up to that. Recently this has moved into the TERRORISM realm, where it's a huge offense to do anything like this. This isn't just fun and games, but real time behind bars for life stuff. Are people this cracked or what? Could you imagine this happening on the Presents CPU? Not cool.
Step One: Download the player
Step two: Run player, see if the company isn't bs'ing
Step Three: if adaware == missing Then change facial.expresson to 'Shocked'
Step Four: Download a new version of AdAware that can disable the player's abilities. Step Five: Laugh. You have beaten the system, my friend! Today is a good day!
So we can expect that Adaware will add a disclaimer to their EULA stating that: .. further more we will uninstall our uninstaller to prevent future uninstalls."
"Any attempt to uninstall our software will result in an uninstall upon reinstallation
You mean that Adaware actually does this? Damn thanks Radlight I would never have used it until you pointed that out for me. Oh btw, I think after I install Adaware I will look for some alternative to your product.
Thanks you guys!
It's no more legal than selling a telephone that won't hang up when a telemarketer calls.
Or a TV that changes your premium cable channels to HBO when plugged in.
They will have a LOT of explaining to do.
Bruce willis is dead in the sixth sense
...putting an insanely unreasonable clause in your EULA is a form of marketing now. Before today I had never heard of Radlight. No such thing as bad publicity, I suppose.
..let davenger@radlight.net know how you feel.
Mod my comments down. It'll be fun.
How exactly is it illegal for this program to remove Adaware but not illegal for Adaware to remove this program. Remember, both tell you they'll be removing the other program.
I could just say I unistalled it manually
here
here
here
or of course, do your own google search here
...with a new referencefile ( 108-23-04-02 ).
Download it from here.
I'll have something intelligent to add one of these days...
What really surprised me was the part at the end of the thanks note:
Ok, maybe not, but I half expected that, when I saw the "thanks" page.
Curmudgeon Gamer: Not happy
This story immediately reminded me of some of the RIAA plans to hack your home machines (also mentioned here). I can't wait for the day when the big virus/trojan du jour hammering corporate networks and bringing down servers right and left turns out to be from the RIAA or MPAA.
"We were just protecting our copyrights, it's not our fault that your payroll files were lost!"
Zero tolerance equals zero intelligence
I think one of the problems concerning spyware and intelligent agent type technologies is the fact that in order to get good performance people think they need to rely on implicitly collected data, in which case the user always wonders exactly what else they could be collecting. They justify the use of spyware to collect information that users never would take the time to submit themselves. This is a misguided approach, since good personalized recommendation technology is available with explicit user feedback instead (such as Stumbleupon for websurfing).
I think that many companies feel such approaches are necessary in order to collect information without too much user hassle. The focus should instead be on improved interfaces which allow people to easily submit information as they desire. This way the benefits of personalization can be had, yet people know exactly how much information about themselves they have revealed...
Just use Winamp. blows MS media player away.
it seems this sort of thing is frequently bundled with media players. i guess that's the one thing that people are most likely to install as they are surfing.
so has anybody heard of these spyware media players being necessary for the file format on the site, or is it just that media players seem innocuous to the average web surfer?
you probably shouldn't have read this.
Don't use the program.
Jesus used to be my co-pilot, but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him.
Um, why would you want to use Radlight again?...
RadLight RadLight is an application developed to offer you fast and high quality playback of DivX content and other multimedia files. After a year of silence, new version breaks all our expectations. RadLight is rated 100% at prestigeous CNET's Download.com, available at "Best of Download.com 2001 CD" and received several other awards, as well.
Go figure they are no longer listed on Cnets Download.com, Wonder Why. Download.com is where i would guess alot of ppl goto for Shareware. Woot Cnet
"All I can tell the "lesser of two evils" folks is that if they keep voting for evil, they'll keep getting evil."-Lp.org
It looks like CoreWars have graduated to the PC! Now we can have distributed spyware aps/killers duking it out on millions of PCs across the land! But how will we keep score?
Remain calm! All is well!
Disclaimer (i.e. flame preventative): I think this absolutely sucks, and the creators of such things should burn in hell.
Of course, this doesn't help those who use Win9x/ME (and you need help if you do...), but on Win2K you shouldn't do your day-to-day work with enough priviledge to allow the apps you run to do things like this. I don't work with Administrator priviledges, just like on UNIX I don't log in as 'root'. If I'm browsing, and some piece of crap software wants to rape my system, it'll have hell trying to do so. If I want/need to do more, I can use the 'Run As' service to do most things, and it won't kill me to log off and log back in as root.
Just my $2*10^-2 worth..."I don't think I ain't" -Thompson's Corollary to Descartes
If only NS would uninstall IE...
Error: Success
"Today, the multimedia program was no longer available from CNET. According to a copy of the download page cached by the Google search engine, over 750,000 copies of RadLight had been downloaded from CNET as of February 2002."
I feel bad for those who downloaded this program. They obviously don't know about WinAMP. Also, why not check the DivX website for players that support DivX and not spyware .
"Radlight software indeed checks for the default Ad-aware installation path, and then removes all files that are not currently in use, upon its first execution."
It seems that it checks only once, so reinstalling Ad-Aware wouldn't be much of a problem. OR you could just install into a different directory than the default.
"Newsbytes has confirmed that installing RadLight version 3.03 deletes Lavasoft's Ad-Aware program, as promised in a warning in the software's 1,100-word license agreement."
Not too many people I know read EULA's unless they are looking for something specific, especially when it's 1100 words.
i think it is less intrusive because ad-aware doesn't try to fool you into thinking it is a media player. its purpose is to remove programs that annoy you. it's a totally different story if a media player sneaks extra "features" in that violate your privacy.
you probably shouldn't have read this.
This activity breaches the computer misuse act in the UK.
It affects the running of the computer without the user's express consent.
This act is awaiting some decent case to pummel some insiduous little pointless company selling stuff without a unique selling point.
Im about ready to come up with an
....guess what the judge told the car wash owner, wou can say whatever you want on a sign posted however conspicuosly you want, you are in fact still legally responsible, UNLESS Mr...signed a piece of paper waiving that right in FRONT of a witness, did Mr....do this ? Uhhh no your honor....Judgment in favor of plantiff $490.....next case!
E(nd)V(endor)A(ccess)A(greement)
For my computer that superceeds any EULA and the vendors acceptance will be gained prior (on a click through link at in the signature of the email I order software through.
Order X program from the author
At the bottom of the email is a link stating
something like (and of course be just as obstuficating) as the EULA's are that any software being installed on the computer this mail is originating from must accept the terms in the EVAA (access to MY , get it MY f***ing computer) and that sale or distribution of any software to this computer(the same one you are purchasing the software from) is an acceptance of the EVAA (and a link to the same)
Wrap up and invert a EULA , one of the nasties most un-understandable ones you can find, and post it at that link, keep copies of the email correspondence and buy it.
At this point your EVAA WILL in fact superceed the EULA, is this legal, yep !
Will it hold up in court ? Let me just say just as much as a click through EULA will..
If a EULA says I have to let them suck my toes, do I have to allow it ? No ! Why not ? Same reasons as "not responsible for lost stolen article" signs arent worth the plastic theyre printed on. You can say whatever the hell you want holding it up in court is another story.
Next time your rearview mirror or antenna gets ripped off in an automatic car wash and the manager say but the sign is right there say, ok fine, write it down. I took this to court once, on a new car I was dammed if I'd pay 250$ deductible on
Sig went tro...aahemmm.....fishing........
To Whom It May Concern,
1. Spyware stuff.
during the last few months the popularity of word "spyware" has
raised amazingly. Actually, only a few peopla know what the programs considered
as "spyware" do, but the name just sounds good, doesn't it ?
SPYWARE... SPYWARE... hmm, I'm pretty scared... maybe I should stop
watching the american thrillers. Someone is spying me... he knows
what I'm doing, knows my girlfriends telephone number, knows where do I live,
he just controls my life...HE KNOWS !!!!
But take a closer look at the "spyware" programs. e.g. SaveNow.
SaveNow HELPS people when bying over the internet. You want to buy
a pack (a few hundreds) of recordable CDs.... searching on the net..
AH, here...Oh, wait a moment, a popup window appears. When I click
on the popup-window I can buy a pack of my favourite CDs and save
up to 15% That's cool. I would even call it "HELPWARE". I'm happy.
I got my CDs, some people got some money and everyone is happy.
Some people say it collects some information and sends it over the
internet... BUT. Has anyone "recorded" the data sent over the net ?
I use it and didn't notice any data being stolen or anything happened
to my data. Only my SaveNow database is growing and offering me more
and more advantageous purchases.
The banner advertising is widely spread on the internet. The targeted
advertising like SaveNow does is much more efficient and much better payed.
But some people don't like when the others are profiting.
Ah... but the saveNow is not the only "HELPWARE" out there..
Yes, there are MANY of them. And they are struggling for each user.
And suddenly a programm appears to "uninstall helpware" or "MAKE YOUR
COMPUTER SAFE" or "PROTECT YOU". But it doesn't uninstall all of the "helpware"
programs, because SOME OF THEM are considered SAFE.... !!!! SOME OF THEM !!!
And I ask : Why are they considered SAFE? What is considered SAFE?
2. HELPWARE as a solution for free programs
2 years ago, when we started working on RadLight, we had no problems at all.
We were hosted on a free Slovak server. The bandwidth bas pretty low
but as we had only 50 visitors a day, everyone succeeded downloading
his program. Some time later the first download-CRC-FAILED mails began
to arrive.. was it my fault ? The server problems began.
A friend managed to get a server in Germany. It was a hot connection
and the troubles were gone but the people downloaded RadLight more
and more. As we have reached the 10GB/day traffic the server has died...
And we had to decide : Either we will be regular Shareware or
we will bundle other software.
The first solution would lead to absolute popularity loss. Because the
people are VERY unlikely to pay if they don't really need to.
We decided to be FREE SHAREWARE but in a year of being FSW we got
only some 300USD what is really FEW. I don't want to force anyone to pay me,
because I wanted RL to be free, but we really couldn't afford to pay ANY server.
That's why we decided to bundle SaveNow, thinking that people
realize we had no other choice. Many people wrote MANY MAILS saying
how is RadLight cool and how happy they are. But are they the only one to be
happy ? WHY CAN'T I BE HAPPY TOO ? WHY SHOULD I HAVE PROBLEMS of
making programs for people I don't even know ? But the people
don't understand that installing HELPWARE is a way of their "THANKS".
I am REALLY GRATEFUL to those people who registered RadLight = donated
money to support RadLight, because the money we get from the bundle based
on our userbase are only enough for paying my phone bill and the server
we have now, especially to Todd Keller who even offered us a mirror hosting.
I think that he is one of the few people knowing what problems does it make
to host popular program.
As I say : In these times the targeted advertising bundling is the only solution
for popular programs if they want to stay free.
3. Adaware app.
Let's take a closer look at this application.
The general description is : "An application that uninstalls spyware" or
"An application that uninstalls helpware" or "An application that uninstalls
programs being installed with your permission" because YOU are the one to
decide whether to install them or not (at least in RadLight case). It's
popularity is based on scarying people using the word "SPYWARE", based
on considering users as not very clever.
When an unexperienced user runs adaware and finds some app described
as spyware he is really likely to click on remove button, because of the
word "SPYWARE"... something terrible. I'd wonder what would happen
if the latest windows version was described as "SPYWARE" ??
And I ask again ? Why should I trust a program that looks into every directory
on my harddisk, into every registry key, into my mails (it even wanted
to delete my personal mails to WhenU) searching for SOMETHING rather than
believing in MYSELF ? I felt like the local SWAT team just went through my house...
When I AM THE ONE who installed the HELPWARE program, IT SHOULD BE INSTALLED.
When I don't want to use it anymore, I can uninstall it either manually or going
to CONTROL PANEL\ADD REMOVE PROGRAMS.
As adaware's behaviour was hostile to our bundle, I had to defend.
Other programs like KaZaa do bundle too. However if a half of their
bundled programs are killed in action they still have enough money
but my money income is enough for my sister to buy chewing gum.
4. Some facts to think about.
RadLight's top downloads count was about 45000 per week only from download.COM
- that made 1.0MB x 45000 / 7 = 6.428 GB traffic per day only from download.com
Adaware now
- 0.85MB x 250 000 / 7 = 30.3 GB each day = 910.7 GB per month.
- go and check some server providers how much would that cost !!
- adaware has some $15 PRO version, but I STRONGLY DOUBT it would
be enough to pay such a bill
- WHO gives them the MONEY ??
- Isn't here some concurency destroying trick ?
- Why are some helpware programs considered spyware and some don't
Helpware
- As far as I know only few programs have bundled helpware mandatory
- so if you DON'T LIKE ANY HELPWARE just DON'T INSTALL IT
General about software
- I've heard a saying : "about 99% of computer problems sit in front
of the monitor"
RadLight again
- point of RadLight is to make watching of your video files easier
and better than ever
- point of RadLight is NOT to fight in any financial, political, social,
economical, rasistic or any other war
- I as the author of RadLight am sorry for users being scared of word
"spyware" but I don't feel sorry for any uninstalled copy of
program whose point is TO KILL.
- the 5.2 License agreement clearly tells that adaware is not allowed
with RadLight.
You are the one to decide what software do you want and what software
do you use.
All it takes to kill the EULA craze is a strong precedent set in court that makes them illegal or limits their authority. Up until now, I have not seen any major cases challenging EULA, perhaps because for the most part they have been pretty banal and benign. But shinanigans like that of the Radlight EULA will land the EULA movement in court with a lovely challenge. And that's good for us.
If you must use a separate divx player, i find this one to do the job just nicely
BSPlay
Exercise caution when modding this message up: the author acts like a jerk when his karma is excellent.
Want EULAs to be declared invalid? Write a popular software package that everybody wants, and then one day, change the EULA to say, "You may not use this software if you are not white." (Or "if you are white"...whatever, the point is to be arbitrarily racist.) If that's a little too radical for you, make it say, "You may not use this software if you are an employee of Microsoft or the U.S. Federal government".
I suspect that the public outcry would have a lot more people scrutinizing EULAs very quickly.
Or write an EULA that for one customer out of 100 comes up with, "You agree to allow us to publish your credit card numbers on the web for all to use." (As it turns out, this isn't very far from a lot of spyware EULAs, it's just much more to-the-point)
In any case, abuse of EULAs has become so widespread that I suspect they're going to end up getting regulated, anyway. Let's hope it's sooner rather than later.
Upgrade to Linux or FreeBSD today.
From the Norton Site:
Because adware programs are not malicious, and are not viruses, worms, or Trojans, Norton AntiVirus does not detect them as such. Detecting nonmalicious programs such as jokes or adware could cause you to believe you have run or received a dangerous program when in fact you have not.
Hopefully they'll fix this in their next version. Ad-aware has been great for removing spyware after it's weaseled it's way onto my system but I need a program that will stop it from getting on my system in the first place.
You are not allowed to use any third party program (e.g Ad-aware) to uninstall application bundled with RadLight. Such programs will be removed. :)
Does that count unlink(2) (and whatever the native Win32 equivalent is)? Removing the C runtime library doesn't sound very nice to me
And how many people use Radlight media player?
answer: Fifty: As a matter of fact, here are all 50 registered users (fifty people, wow!).
Even better question: How many people have even *heard* of Radlight before?
PS:Somehow I don't think their servers are being crippled right now with thousands of slashdot readers trying to download a copy of radlight.
But Internet Explorer is an important part of the OS, they can't be seperated it.
Hell, I can't even type it with a straight face.
There's already a name for software that, when installed on a computer, goes through and deletes other data on the machine unbeknownst to the user. It's called a virus.
Just because it's stated in their EULA that they can do that, doesn't allow them to circumvent the law. Of course IANAL, but it sounds like this struggle has gotten to the point where it is legally challengeable.
Can't users who want Radlight install Adaware afterwards?...isn't a post-install an easy workaround?
Even if it is a work around, why bother?
Honestly, I don't get why anyone wants to bother with spyware or anti-spyware. If you don't like how spyware behaves, don't use it. "Oh, but I want feature X that spy-program Y provides", you say? Well, then find a non-spyware program that provides it, or shut up and let program Y give it to you up the a$$.
But don't mess with anti-spyware, please. If you mess with anti-spyware, you only up the cycle of abuse, and make life hellish for everyone. Instead, learn to do without feature X until it is made evailable in non-spyware program Z.
Its called "Voting with your pocketbook", and there are too few endusers with the principles to do that these days.
"I like to wear big boy pants."
here I'm again. You have posted really good posts. There are intelligent reactions to my hints and I must admit that I have a bit underestimated how powerfull userbase Adaware has.
I'm sure that many of you ask, WHAT WAS THE REASON of KILLING adaware right after each start NOT looking into default directory (like some people think) but using the uninstall registry keys and uninstaller LOG file (this is a hint for adaware developers to make it invisible) ?
Actually, the point was NOT to destroy the adaware . This is almost impossible. BUT TO SHOW WHAT COULD HAPPEN IF THE PROGRAMS START UNINSTALLING EACHOTHER. As I believe that some of the "spyware" are just reguler legal programs I really feel for their authors to see how their program is being uninstalled. I WANTED ADAWARE TO SEE IT TOO and to revalue their pose to their "enemies". I understand that ads brought by some programs aren't doing the clean job and don't have approprietary uninstalling possibilites and they NEED TO BE REMOVED BY THE HARDEST WAY, but NOT all of them are such rude. When removing legal software (as you say now I remove adaware), having all what polite software should have (polite installer, EULA, Uninstaller and full description), it may be really VERY UNPLEASANT.
They put me on the MOST WANTED list ? Yes, that's what I expected. It is natural and if they didn't do that it would look STRANGE, wouldn't it.
They removed me from CNet ? Oh yes, again, I expected problems but you all must admit that adaware is a "remover" too.
They wanted to send me to all AntiVirus companies ? Heh, detecting a "virus" having EXEPath in regisry and no other files copied in any directory would be pretty easy, don't you think ?
You all are angry on me ? Yes, I expected it. But if I didn't do this and only started to talk about my opinions I would be just SOME ANOTHER GUY SAYING SOME BULLSHIT and ignored (my life-experience with many people). Generaly the people must see the acts first and then they will PERHAPS start thinking more.
The non-adaware-killing RadLight was compiled 5 seconds after the adaware-killing version. I thought that people would find it out immedieately but it took more than a week until they noticed. It will be released immediately and no more software-removing actions will be taken. I can only hope that Lavasoft will think about the reasons why this happened.
I know i will loose many of users who will ignore my player but It will at least solve my server problems and I may rest for a while.
I can apologize now
" I apologize to LavaSoft for all inconviences that happened by my RadLight software when removing the ADAWARE application silently and without users request.
I apologize to all RadLight users who may be disappointed or hurt by these events.
I apologize to all ADAWARE users whose adaware was removed when launched RadLight.
Your indignation is an evidence for me that I succeeded and now, at least the people who read messages on this forum understand how does it feel when YOUR SOFTWARE is being removed.
With friendly regards,
Igor "RadScorpion" Janos
_________________ Non Progredi Est Regredi
I think that means, "all your base are belong to us." ;)
Aside from not owning a car, (which, btw, is an entirely viable option more people should look into), Joe-average can do very little.
In the software universe, however, there are thousands of people who know how to program well enough to FIX intentional, greed-related corporate bullshit problems, and distribute those fixes to anybody who takes the relatively small amount of time required to learn how to implement them.
Why are Hackors demonized by the media? Because they represent an annoying burr, a standing nail which refuses to be brushed away or hammered down. And through this, humanity is prevented from being jammed, (quite so quickly and neatly), into the square holes all neatly prepared for us. Hackors get in the way of the plans of the Control Reality which are being implemented around our ears as we speak.
I am not a programmer. I am not a hacker. But I am proud that this aspect of humanity still exists. I am proud that people are having FUN in this way! (All important!) I salute those who know how to make the machines work for the common benefit, and who have the courage to do so!
A tip of the hat to you all!
-Fantastic Lad
Would it be legal to write in an EULA that my software X cannot be used on the same computer than software Y, and uninstall it without warning if it finds it?
Dude, that's exactly what happened.
X=RadLight
Y=Ad-Aware
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
As many viruses spread by getting users to click somewhere (eg. on an attachment) it's one small step to writing a virus that displays a EULA that most people won't actually read. In the small print at the end it says "by running this app you agree to allow this software to mail itself to all of your friends and then trash your hard drive". Presumably it would spread like wildfire and the author would be immune from legal action.
-- SIGFPE
It seems these days EULA's are tricky bits of text, with many conflicting positions over how they hold up. Many software companies defend their actions, such as Radlight in this case, by saying "It was in the EULA." This is the case with most programs with spyware. They just write somewhere in the EULA that you are agreeing to install the spyware.
But are people who use Ad-aware and break the EULA not guilty of anything? It is an agreement that you have to agree to in order to use the application. You agree to installing and running their spyware and ad supported program, then break that agreement by using Ad-Aware to remove it. God forbid someone wants to receive something in return (in the form of ad revenue) for their program which you use. I personally hate ads being forced on me, but this seems no different than cracked warez applications. In both cases you are using the program, but denying the creators any sort of revenue from yourself.
In both of these cases the EULA seems to bear absolutely no value in the end.
If they have delisted Kazaa for it's deceptive practices, surely CNET should remove RadLight for similar reasons. This is way over the top.
does not get picked up by "Who's watching me" or the others I have tried. They install some "Helper" software which places an icon of a gorilla or some other simian type thing on your desktop which kindly freezes up a windows box I have here that works as an mp3 fileserver. Apparently as who's watching me updates they are keeping up, but there are some randomization items that come with the app that audiogalaxy satellite installs. Read the TOS before installing...
anime+manga together at last.. in real time.
Facts About Food Labeling
Under regulations from the Food and Drug Administration of the Department of Health and Human Services and the Food Safety and Inspection Service of the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the food label offers more complete, useful and accurate nutrition information than ever before.
With today's food labels, consumers get:
Somebody should take that list and create the End User License Agreement Act, in which they list what MUST be clear and concise in the EULA. Until somebody passes a law requiring standardization, rogue software makers will continue to use the EULA to hide revelations of spyware.
that I enjoy using open source applications. No stupid wars between rival companies on my computer.
You can come to the discussion/forum here on this thread and show him your support for Ad-aware and why it is important NOT to piss off the users of Ad-aware.
I believe that the guy(s) can come to his/their senses and have some corrective actions regarding his sw soon.
Come and show him your love,
Annmite
Thar just ain't enuf room on this Hard Drahv fer both o' us...Draw!
Think, write, think, edit, think...then post.
Something like: "Their software deletes our spyware automatically without our permission. Therefore, we have the right to delete their software automatically without their permission."
The flaw, of course, is that Ad-Aware doesn't delete their product automatically -- it gets the user's permission to delete it first, unless that user explicitly changes Ad-Aware's settings to do auto-deletions. Whereas deleting Ad-Aware automatically without confimation or giving the user the choice not to is unethical, even if you do put it at the bottom of your EULA.
I don't imagine these two tiny companies could afford a lawsuit (in what country?) over the matter, but I find it hard to see a fair judge deciding against Ad-Aware on this matter.
I know its dated, but it just fits this situation so well.
All your Software are belong to us!!!
13 year old white supremacists are shitty web designers.
RadLight offers you and your family a whole line of fine merchandise at the RadLight Online Store . If you've ever felt like you've had too much voluntary control over your daily routine, why not try integrating some of their fine products into your lifestyle?
Take, for instance, this fashionable long-sleeve RadLight t-shirt . It's luxuriously soft, 100% cotton -- and it forcibly ejects from your wardrobe any third-party sweaters, jackets, etc. you might mistakenly slip over it on one of those chilly summer nights. No more hassles choosing what to wear, and think of all the closet space you'll free up.
Or how about this bright and cheery RadLight mug ? Guaranteed to keep your favorite beverage piping hot... as long that beverage is RadLight-branded Maxwell House Regular Roast. All other liquids will be drained through an emergency discharge valve at the bottom of the mug. (Please note: by filling the cup, the consumer absolves RadLight of all liability for any leg/groin/other scalding that may occur.)
And, of course, there's always RadLight's crowing achievement: extra-roomy RadLight boxer shorts . All-cotton, open-fly, and completely impervious to access by any third parties. That's right, only you or an authorized RadLight employee (or an employee/consultant of any of its licensed subsidiaries and partners) will be able to get at what's behind that RadLight logo. Now how's that for peace of mind?
Don't thank them now. That slightly pained smile on your face will be praise enough.
It looks good on them.
You can't bind people to a EULA, nobody reads it if it's more than ten lines long. I am going to write some software that does something K-RAD (like a screensaver !!) and in the bckground leeches peoples PayPal accounts!! Man, I'm gonna be richer than BillG !! hahahah (evil laugh)
As a registered users you will get all upgrades free & will have higher priority in answering questions. Registration is processed by Share-it.com. From this page, the order process is protected by a secure connection. Your personal data will be encrypted and cannot be accessed by third parties. We use the latest in ASCII encoding technologies...
write into an EULA that by downloading this program you agree to uninstall Windows and install Linux? Sweet.
But, probably not legal. Do they even think about this shit before they write these things up?
Best. Comment. Ever. Enjoy!
If it is legal, I'm going to start bundling virii, trojans and password stealers with my programs. And include in the EULA that by clicking agree, you waive all responsibility to hold me liable for any damages or problems incurred from using and installing my software.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Just don't install the apps on your machine to begin with. Treat your computer as a temple. And only the worthiest of programs may make it into the most holy.
grep >= ! == $your
From CNET:
KaZaA Media Desktop 1.6
Downloads: 59,733,320
The coolest voice ever.
Yeah, okay, there's a logo that took all of twenty "inspired" minutes in front of Photoshop to draw. Fscking tribal neo-crypto-monkeys will rally around anything, regardless of merit.
-jhp
/. -- the Free Republic of technology.
Big Steaming Pile Of Bull Shit
A prime cut: "The non-adaware-killing RadLight was compiled 5 seconds after the adaware-killing version.
Uhhh... One simple program or one shit-hot computer he's got there. If only I had [less than] 5 second compiles at college, I'd never have had time to fill the server with all that pr0n. He's been fiddling with the system clock or spent a few minutes in UltraEdit. Expecting me to believe otherwise is an insult.
"Windows and Linux can co-exist on the same machine." - Microsoft Corporation.
1. Spyware stuff.
during the last few months the popularity of word "spyware" has raised amazingly. Actually, only a few peopla know what the programs considered as "spyware" do, but the name just sounds good, doesn't it? SPYWARE... SPYWARE... hmm, I'm pretty scared... maybe I should stop watching the american thrillers. Someone is spying me... he knows what I'm doing, knows my girlfriends telephone number, knows where do I live, he just controls my life...HE KNOWS !!!! But take a closer look at the "spyware" programs. e.g. SaveNow. SaveNow HELPS people when bying over the internet. You want to buy a pack (a few hundreds) of recordable CDs.... searching on the net.. AH, here...Oh, wait a moment, a popup window appears. When I click
on the popup-window I can buy a pack of my favourite CDs and save up to 15% That's cool. I would even call it "HELPWARE". I'm happy.
Oh, so this is one of those people who actually enjoy being interrupted during dinner to recieve a SPECIAL OFFER from company X if they switch phone companies. Now I see, they aren't telemarketers, they're tele-HELPERS!
I got my CDs, some people got some money and everyone is happy. Some people say it collects some information and sends it over the internet... BUT. Has anyone "recorded" the data sent over the net? I use it and didn't notice any data being stolen or anything happened to my data.
Likewise, this guy must be a-okay with having hidden cameras being in his shower. After all, if the data was wired right out of the house and on to the internet straight to some hidden-camera porn site, has anybody in the neighborhood "recorded" that pictures were sent from his household out over the net? He used the shower and might have noticed the camera, but that must be okay because he didn't actually see the pictures leaving the residence.
I'm not going to go on. You already understand the truth, and so does this dishonest money-grubbing scumbag.
Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh
I can see it now... "Spy Warez: The Phantom Manuscript", featuring the lovable character Kaz Zaz! Coming to theaters near you!
Why bother.
When will people learn that Microsoft Windows is just a breeding ground for corporations to fight for your attention? Microsoft makes you sign a rediculous EULA. I guess you get what you pay for.
http://www.askthevoid.com
The creator of Ad-Aware needs money to fight junk like this, not to mention keeping up the good work ;o) .
We should all support him with our dollars and buy Ad-Aware. Don't just use the free version.
I'd pay to see that trial.
So what you're saying is that you would use the DMCA as long as it meets a certain set of criteria?
You should be ashamed of yourself!
There are 01 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and me.
If CNet/download.com are willing to pull Kazaa because of the uncertainty of the nature of its own bundled software, then they should *definitely* pull this program, because it's obviously invading a piece of the user's system that does *not* belong to them!
I really hope someone from download.com carries this out, and soon.
Yes, this move killed my program. Well, you know, I expected this, so I won!
Won what?
I understand that they forbid you to uninstall their program in part. You get it as a whole, it's copyrighted as a whole and you're not allowed to modify it because of copyright, so you have to take it as a whole.
...or you just don't take it ("uninstall it as a whole"), because it sucks.
"We can confirm that Debian does *not* ship the version with the trojan horse. Our version predates it." [CA-2002-28]
If you don't need Windows for work or whatever, I would recommend a better operating system. If you would all install Linux you could stop worrying about stupid problems like spyware, and focus on things that matter, like getting your video card configured.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
Disclamer: IANAL
To me this whole thing raises a point about the legality and enforcability of EULAs:
Everyone seems to agree that EULAs are legal in as far as they are enforcable (just like any other contract). When a EULA cannot be enforced by a company directly, it is up to a court to decide if the EULA will be enforced by the government.
So if a EULA says, "If you want to use our software, you have to give up your first born son", and you click on the Agree button (because you are stupid), then you have agreed to give up Jimmy. But when it comes time to give up Jimmy and you don't, the company then tries to get the EULA enforced by going to court. The court says, "Sorry company, we aren't going to enforce this contract because the right to keep Jimmy supersedes the right to enforce a contract" (or something like that), and the company is screwed out of yet another first born son.
But when the writer of the EULA can enforce the EULA, then it is perfectly legal and fine.
These Radlight people have come up with a way to enforce their EULA. You wanna use their software, then you can't use Adaware, and we will remove it for you. If you agree to the EULA (because you are still stupid), then they remove Adaware, and you have no reason to whine.
"I like to wear big boy pants."
Radlight changed the download link to Simtel, but are still using the CNet logo.
Open Source Software.
The Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons
Isn't it great?
Ever stop to think that you don't have to use their software?
Ever think that by using their software, you agree to their terms?
Vile and underhanded, sure. About as vile and underhanded as the GPL stating that people who use GPL code must continue giving back to the community.
Don't like their license? Choose a different program under a different license.
Newsflash, you scum-sucking sack of pus, AdAware wouldn't even exist if morons like you didn't install privacy busting crap in the first place. It's my machine, I paid for it, I get to say what does and doesn't get installed on it. Capisce?
Oh, and one last thing, Ibore "NadSuckon" Anus, if you think your smug, semiliterate attempt at an "apology" is going to make even one user even one tiny bit less pissed off at you, then just take the crackpipe out of your hole and listen up. Just like a helluva LOT of people, I not only never heard of your pissant product before this, I now wouldn't use it if it was the ONLY media player out there. Sucks to be you.
At first when I read this story, I (predictably) got all worked up and went to their site to mouth off on their forums. Then it struck me. If Radlight had never put an AdAware killing "feature" in their crappy app, nobody would have ever heard of it.
Now, everybody on
Instant, free, (albeit bad) publicity. And, as the PR folks say, no PR is bad PR. In any case, lots of bad PR must be better than absolutely no name-recognition.
On the other hand, having read some of these guys comments on their forums, I think that maybe they're not clever enough to have thought of this...
1) I would think that a EULA that states you cannot have certain programs on your computer if you use this program (or any program) is illegal -- due to the Sherman anti-trust act. (Kind of like Ford saying you void the warranty on the entire car if you use tires from JCPenny.) Since IANAL, I'd love to hear from one on this.
2) There's a difference between adware and spyware, a difference some people like to ignore in their "rightous" anger. To be blunt, companies need to make money to pay bills and stay in business. I have no problems with adware, if I can pay for a non-adware version. For example, I used Eudora in adware mode for a long time -- it wasn't obnoxious, and it's a great e-mail client (I wish they'd port it to Linux). I got a free program and the company stayed in business. Polite and reasonable adware seems only fair -- it helps the user and the company. Rude adware -- well, if you don't like it, don't use it. Heaven forbid companies actually make enough on their software to stay in business. Spyware -- now that's a completely different topic. I didn't see anything in the article or the Radlight website to justify the headline calling this program spyware instead of adware. Mangleware, maybe, but not spyware.
This is really sad. Radlight was a really nice mpeg viewer. One of the few that handles 16:9 aspect displays well. I remember emailing one of the developers about a bug once, not only did they ack the bug, but they sent me a follow up when the release with the fix was out. Freak'n Microsoft was never half as good. What ever happened to using the traditional shareware model? Look at companies like JASC, start small, make quality products and grow big.
b...a story about how Bill cGates conceded modular versions of Windows. Twice. He 9said that Windows could be modular, 0and that Windows XP was modular already. It was rejected0 in the time it took me to reload the 2page.
Let's see1 how long it takes before that story is up there!
.... unless the user of this program is a gorgeous babe with lucsious gazongas, then in which case the use of this program implies willful consent to riotous sex for the duration of the use of said software or for as long as author of said software can get it up.
"By existing in the same time-space continuum as this license agreement, you automatically transfer entire ownership of your being, body and belongings to ^Evil^ Inc. You now exist to serve ^Evil^ Inc, and therefor must comply will all commands. You will like, love, and worship ^Evil^ Inc. Click 'OK' below to relay your coordinates to our 'New Slave Arrival Department' for immediate pickup."
Like eagles on pogo-sticks! -- Glottis
Whee! The fine folks of Lavasoft have shot their own volley, releasing a new Reference file, 108-23-04-02, that targets Radlight.
Slovak Republic...your move.
Fortran programmer...oh yeah. Array math for life!
That's too bad. I liked Radlight. It was like Vueprint for videos. It opens in a tenth of the time WMP does and plays just about anything. Too bad, Radlight. CYA!
Merlin is an ancient battery powered hand-held gadget with 9 LED/buttons and a noisemaker. Yes. Not very sophisticated. It looked sort of like a telephone. This was considered cool stuff when I was a kid, just before home computers arrived. Anyway, one of the games Merlin could play was one where each LED/button caused other LED/buttons to go on or off. At the start of the game there was a random pattern and you kept pushing buttons until you had all the keys lit up (or something like that). It occurs to me that if programs uninstall eachother, it would be like playing this Merlin game, only NOT FUN AT ALL. Of course, it's probably trivial to write a program that solves the Merlin puzzle. So, somebody would have to write a Perl script that solved the Merlin puzzle. Then you enter what you have installed, what you want to install, and the program would tell you the sequence of installs/uninstalls you needed to perform in order to reach the desired state. Of course, Merlin played a tune when you solved the puzzle. Maybe that will be bundled into the next version of Windows. :)
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
...putting a Linux firewall behind the Windows machine and the Internet? Let them try to uninstall that.
I find radlight to perform better and be a smoother player than the rest.
The new Windows Media player wno't reocgnize or work with all the codecs I have, and I hate juggling between versions.
Radlight seems to work with them all. It does a better job of not crashing on bit errors in the stream, has better shuttle controls, and better keyboard controls, and has LESS bloat than windows media player.
Also, radlight has checkboxes on install to remove a couple piece of spyware...
I'm curious, what other spyware is present in radlight?
why applications shouldn't need installers, and a demonstration of the need for a more stringent permissions system in windows (why do your apps need the right to delete each other?). Anytime I see an app that has an installer and it's not a driver, I assume it is going to try and destroy my system somehow (and I don't even use Windows).
"Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity" -Alvy Ray Smith
Hmmm... add a EULA to the latest virus, warning that you are not permitted to run any antivirus software and it will uninstall any it finds...
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
{Wish I'd thought of your sig}
Think, write, think, edit, think...then post.
Ahhh, no. Would you rather go through all your mp3's and say for each one "Yes, I like this song" in order for it to suggest new ones to you? If you have the song, obviously you like it! I agree for webpages its a little different, but requiring a user to manually enter information is way too time consuming. The problem is not with automated techniques, its that the intent behind them is often to screw over the user and bombard them with ads.
Look, when you install something on someone's system - granted, no one really reads EULAs and that's a problem in itself not entirely the fault of the end user but the vendor too - that they don't know about, then it's spyware. EULAs are garbage. They are totally legal mumbo jumbo. And more than not, M$ is a prime example, Yahoo too, they're not in the best interest of the user, but arm twisting favor of the vendor. Think this is wrong? Well, then howcome I can't get a laptop from a big vendor w/out a copy of Windoze on it?
By tucking in little clauses that say people can't use a program to remove your bundled software is bullshit and not in the end users best interest. Period! Sell your app then if you need money. Bombarding people with ads will just get you annoyed users.
As far as distributing/hosting problems, there are plenty of apps out there that are mirrored in many different places. Sure, it might be a pain in the ass to update 20 mirrors, but that's what they're there for - so u don't have 10GB d/l probs on one server.
It's nice that you want to keep yr app 'free', but does it really deserve to be? I don't know of many or any GNU or GPL apps that have such bullshit EULAs as RadLight.
If I was Ad-aware, I'd put a counter-counter clause in my EULA forcing you guys to pay me a million dollars or something for removing my software. A registry setting or something similar could confirm that my app was installed first. Sounds stupid? Well, IT IS! This eye for an eye approach sucks!
Whatever, you have your reasons, but screw your users over and go poking around and intentionally delete software on their machines and you're asking for trouble. If you did that to my machine, I'd wait till you came to my town and kick your ass!! I'm sure others feel the same way!
And btw, I don't want anonymous or not statistics sent to some company so they can better understand how to help me purchase better. Number one rule, don't trust companies to be your friend. Because, like M$ and others, they only have the bottom line in mind and will screw ya when they get the chance. I don't find much value of having some app know that I want such and such cd's and have it go fetch for me. I know what I want and where to get it. That is the only thing I can trust.
Not at all.
Using part of the program and not using the rest is your right. It falls under fair use.
Copyright does not extend to telling you exactly how to use something.
Coprygiht does not give you absolute control over every single copy of your work... it merely establishes some basic rights.
Please read the DMCA before posting ignorant comments about it.
Thanks.
-
The thing that surprised me is that is is possible for one piece of software to even touch the setup of another subsystem -- let alone uninstall it.
... should all run as different users: none of which can munge the system binaries.
Just imagine what you would think if apache could uninstall ftpd ! Apache cannot remove itself, let alone anything else.
The only reason that this can happen is because of the non existant file protection on a M$ system, they still don't understand that users, daemons,
When will they ever learn ?
We call it spyware because it installs itself without asking, and because they tend to report certain usage statistics back to some server somewhere. Who cares if it's advertising.
If the company simply used some libraries and built some advertising into their app, hey, fine.
If they intall stuff to feed information to some third party company without ASKING me if it's okay, then it's not okay.
Since you're clearly an immoral moron, I'll spell this out for you:
A person who has installed Adaware DOES NOT WANT "SPYWARE" (which you call "HELPWARE"). Has this ever occurred to you? Did you know that some people DON'T shop online, and that these extra pop up might annoy them? Guess not.
Now that the word's out on what your program does, you can expect a very low install base. You can expect people to reinstall adaware and remove any offending software you've bundled.
I hope you have you next job lined up.
Isn't this like punching a complete stranger to demonstrate the evils of random violence?
Cheers
-b
>Have Netscape, for instance, remove without warning Internet Explorer from your computer?
What, and save me the fun of doing it?
What you all should be wailing and gnashing our teeth about is the piss-poor security model (or lack of security model) Microsoft uses that allows non-privileged programs to arbitrarily remove or modify system settings, programs, and libraries!
One could argue the same could happen on a Linux box running 'su make install', but I could reply that you are a fool if you don't run 'make -n install' first to see what might happen. AFAIK, there's no functionality to do this under Windows.
I have karma points to spare, so I'll throw out this little troll: If you use Windows, then you get what you deserve whenever you blindly install anything without first taking proper precautions.
In my world, "proper precautions" means never allowing Windows to be installed on any of my machines.
Isn't this just one more reason, out of dozens, not to use spyware at all? They already treat your machine like it's not yours, now they treat it like it's theirs. Not even a powerhouse like Microsoft could do something like this and maintain any marketshare, and these idiots have nothing to begin with. How did they think this would help them distribute the program?
Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
Add berzerkers and anti-add berzerkers are not too far off..
Using Ad-Aware to remove unwanted components from various installs is okay? But using Junkbusters to remove unwanted components from Slashdot is a karma no-no?
You know, this whole point would be moot if people would JUST GO AND FUCKING *BUY* SOFTWARE!
If they place only charged, hell, $5 a head, at 750,000 downloads, that a good chunk of change for the company, and you wouldn't have to put up with/bitch about ad-supported software and spyware.
But, hey, they're about as apt to give up the spyware stuff as you are to actually *pay* for software, so I guess it's a standoff.
*sigh*
Ed R.Zahurak
You know, oblivion keeps looking better every day.
Whats next downloading real player and having it search for ALL other players and deleting them. this reminds me of skript kiddies loading trojans onto your system and deleting things. and why does a company think just cause its in their EULA its legal?
In any case, abuse of EULAs has become so widespread that I suspect they're going to end up getting regulated, anyway.
Well you don't need regulation to give you your rights under the law. As far as I know, except for UCITA (blech), no law says that licenses are binding in any way. They are just pieces of paper included in the box for your amusement, or to wipe your ass with, or whatever. Feel free to do whatever you like with what came in that box, as long as it doesn't violate copyright or trademark or any other law (ie, don't use the CD to slit someone's throat).
Of course, that doesn't mean company XYZ won't sue you over the EULA, but that doesn't mean they are in the right, just richer than you.
This virus/media player/whatever that deletes files isn't magically justified in its behavior by the EULA (just consider the EULA as a verbose warning label: Warning, this product may delete files on your hard drive).
And don't tell me that loading a copy into RAM is forbidden unless the EULA says I can, that's crap. Software has no other purpose but to be loaded into a computer's RAM (and HD), they can't be selling their software in good faith unless they know it will be put on computers.
So let's hope the result of these abuses is that the legal system simply says: "if you want your customers to act any differently than the law allows them to, they must SIGN a CONTRACT, now get out of my courtroom."
Or at least they should say a license can be like the GPL and GIVE you permission to do something that's otherwise not allowed, bu a license can't FORBID you from doing anything.
That will save everybody a lot of trouble.
The problem is of course that Microsoft, et al, will simply encode their favorite license terms directly into the law by greasing a few palms in Congress (this is how the entertainment industry was doing it for years), but at least in that case the results are a little more public (I don't know what half these EULA's say unless I read it in Infoworld, or /., but I certainly know the DMCA pretty well by now).
In summary: this magical fiction of "software licenses" has to be put to an end, and quick. Software companies don't deserve a power over customers that no other industry has (where's the EULA on your screwdriver that says it can't be used to build computers unless you pay the computer fee? Where's the EULA on your ball-point pen that says all papers you write are the property of Sanford Pen Company?)
Just when you think you've heard it all, someone redefines stupidity and reinvents brilliance at the same time.
Anyone have this guy's full name? I want to add him to our company's hiring blacklist. I encourage others to do likewise. Banishment/ostracization is the only effective tool we have right now for ethically reprehensible hominids such as this; might as well use it.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
Maybe the proper way to make a virus is just to throw in a EULA? Throw in small text:
"By hitting agree, you agree to let the virus in question destroy your hard drive right after it gets done spaming the network and trying to send itself to everyone in your address book. You also have given us rights to your first born son and any virgin females in your house."
Radlight's official site uses an image that says "Download it now!" and has a CNet logo on it. But the link now points to simtel, not CNet. How did they get away with continuing to use CNet's logo and using it to point to a non-CNet site?
(cexx.org admin: if you're reading this, please make a page I can link to that has "Radlight" in the title. I wanted to link "Radlight" at the beginning of my comment to your site to push it up in the Google results like users have done for Gator.)
The shareholder is always right.
The radlight site isn't even /.'ed yet! Come on people! Tell them what you think in their forum instead of this one :)
illegal, immoral or not, this is BAD...
This guy has decided that his revenue model is bundling his app with a third party program. This third party program is generally considered spyware but, at the same time, can be considered a legitamite app (just not the one that you were downloading).
He _does_ have a legitamite gripe about adaware. That is, with or without the user's permission, adaware conspicously removes a portion of his application (specifically the part that presumeably pays him).
This is fine, as far as I'm concerened. However, his installer is ass-backwards.
How would I have done it (note: I wouldn't have done it at all, but to each his own): When the installer launches have it check for the presense of Adaware. If adaware is installed then tell the user something to the effect of "Aborting install: Adaware detected." This way it is (a) clear that the program does not play well with Adaware and (b) the author has a gripe about adaware.
Instead he has written an installer that performs a virual function (destroying software without the users knowledge or permission) and is trying to legitamize it by pointing his finger at Lavasoft (adaware). Even if you accept his reasoning that Adaware is the evil culprit, that does not make his program any less evil. He is selling a video player and not an ad-remover remover.
Basically he just found a whole new way to piss on his userbase.
Price, Quality, Time. Pick none. What, you thought you had a choice?
sheesh ad-aware, just change the EULA to this:
This programme cannot be uninstalled by anyone except the administrator. Uninstallations by any 3rd party programmes are liable to a fine of $.
After all if they consider it illegal to uninstall their programmes, Ad-aware can do it too !
- Windows is not a virus... a virus does something...
It's not impossible for non-auto-industry businesses to build their own cars, and it's actually trivial to re-configure the surface of a production car.
If changing the "aerodynamic efficiency" of a production car could reduce drag significantly, the racing and custom car industry would be all over it.
I suppose the 'average individual' might start taking his Prozac as prescribed, and the problem will go awayThe media does not understand hackers, but they understand big business press releases, and sensationalism sells newspapers. I'm proud to say that my employer does not intentionally "demonize" hackers -- but often the reporters and editors do not "get" hackers, and the evil intentions of a few (aka crackers) make us all look bad.
My "media" employer doesn't care about any "Control Reality". They care about reporting the truth, and maximizing shareholder value.
Looking up from the bottom, you see conspiracy. Looking at the problem from the inside, I see no sign of grand conspiracies, no intentional plot to beat down the "annoying burr".
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
Please go to the kitchen now and pour yourself a tall cool glass of SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Thanks.
It's not about how the few of us that read these sorts of articles vote. We are a tiny minority. We don't spend a lot of money to buy congresscritters. We can vote til we're blue in the face and it won't make a dent as long as the rest of the country remains under the spell of the major media corporations. They know only what they're told on TV. They will not know or understand what's going on or why it's bad. Until such time as they can become truly informed, we're doomed to follow the path we're on now.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Just because they're putting it in the EULA doesn't make it right! There should be a limits here.
I know some of the responsibility lies with the installer, but come on. Honestly, how many EULAs have you read from start to finish? Am I the exception here? I'd be curious who from this crowd could lay claim to "The Most EULAs Read Award".
The first solution would lead to absolute popularity loss. Because the people are VERY unlikely to pay if they don't really need to.
and
As I say : In these times the targeted advertising bundling is the only solution for popular programs if they want to stay free.
I'd agree that Shareware programs have the potential to be less popular than equivalent Freeware programs for that very reason. But wouldn't they be made Shareware in order to pay the cost of the bandwidth and equipment that is costing so much? Fewer downloads, while they may be bruising to the ego, mean fewer server and bandwidth issues from heavy traffic, and thus are cheaper to run as a hobby. That is why you're writing this software non-commercially, right?
This is a great reason to write elegant, extraordinary software: people love it so much, they're willing to offer time, money, assistance, equipment, or bandwidth in the form of a mirror. Thus your software can remain free (as in beer). What a nifty idea, if an old-fashioned one, that distributes the work of heavy downloads amongst many sites. On the 'Net you don't have to be the single source for something you want to share. You can acquire a Fan Club (or just enthusiastic supporters or a social network) that freely offers assistance in gratitude for the clever thing you've freely contributed. The Gift Economy does work, but it requires integrity, openness, and gifts that are actually valuable (and maybe a non-combative attitude).
Whoa there, going to radlight.com, opera gives me this: "The server tried to set a cookie for a domain with no registered IP address. For security reasons this is not acceptable, and the cookie has therefore been rejected."
Tsk, tsk, now I suppose Radlight will want to uninstall opera for me too?
All you need to do is agree to the "Software Vendor License Agreement." Then, your rights are as protected as theirs are. The SVLA can (and should!) be read at http://www.cexx.org/svla.htm . You can download it and should edit it to include freeware with an end-user license as 'legitimately purchased software'. Software vendors expect you to agree to an agreement you can't read until after you've agreed to it? Make them do so also. /gleffler
Some unsuspecting user installs some spyware application (i.e. pop up that says "you need blah blah to do this blah blah gator") on a government owned computer.
And what happens when that spyware sees starts learning about some internal intranet sites hosted by the DOD or something?
I can see this happenning and the US Govt. going nuts.
We should never allow any malicious software or company to ever take away our right to properly install software.
Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
Look its simple. Dump microsoft install OSS.
Microsoft isn't directly to blame for this one
but NOONE would put up with this kind of crap on
a Linux or BSD system. So you have a choice
Put up with the little quirky things in a OSS
OR put up with licenses, spyware, viruses, etc on
a microsoft system(for the rest of time).
The choice is yours. This is the real decision.
Here is the Whois report from Arin on their website. It has an e-mail address... Make him/her feel welcome..
I knew it!! Curse those Canadians!
Search results for: 216.194.92.96
Tera-byte Dot Com Inc. (NETBLK-TERA-BYTE-3)
Suite 900, CN Tower, 10004-104 Avenue
EDMONTON AB T5J0K1
CA
Netname: TERA-BYTE-3
Netblock: 216.194.64.0 - 216.194.95.255
Maintainer: TRBY
Coordinator:
Network Operations Centre (NO58-ORG-ARIN) noc@TERA-BYTE.COM
+1-780-413-1868
Fax- +1-780-413-1869
Domain System inverse mapping provided by:
RAPTOR.TERA-BYTE.COM 216.234.161.11
NS2.TERA-BYTE.COM 216.234.161.12
ADDRESSES WITHIN THIS BLOCK ARE NON-PORTABLE
Record last updated on 25-Oct-2001.
Database last updated on 23-Apr-2002 19:59:40 EDT.
Remember the original Windows 95 floppy disk installation. I don't know how many times I got the error that I can't install it if there is an unrecognizable partition anywhere on the computer. (i.e. a Linux partition, etc...)
Can you believe this??!! They want: "donations to keep Radlight up and running". http://shareit1.element5.com/programs.html?product id=150965&language=English
It'll be a cold day in hell before I ever send a penny to them.....
On the Sysinternals site, they have this update listed.
February 28
Regmon v4.34
Regmon now runs on Win64/Itanium, and a window-class randomizing scheme foils most software that otherwise tries to close Regmon in order to prevent you from monitoring the software's Registry accesses.
I'll say it again.
Put OpenBSD cd in cdrom drive.
Press reset button.
Proceed with install of OpenBSD.
Remind your tux lovin friends that the way OUT is
OpenBSD. Laugh when every other computer user on
the planet is having a conniption at the
mention of the latest worm or virus.
No operating system is perfect. But this is as
close as we are going to get.
Sorry i forgot to mention the company from
Redmond WA. It slipped my mind.
I'm planning to get rich. Every page I see from Slashdot makes me $1,000 richer, since my "User Space" says "Slashdot agrees to pay you $1000."
Do the idiot lawyers who write these actually believe they'll work? Don't ask me. I just come up with tax schemes.
I Can't Believe It's A Law Firm, LLP does not necessarily endorse the contents of this message.
Who the fu$"# uses radlight anyways? Those guys are way over their heads ..
I fuse with Mercer every single day...
Dear RadLight,
By accepting this message into your email system you agree to allow the embedded script to remove all data, applications and operating systems from your network.
Removal process started.
Have a nice d#* 7j
Well, I suppose you could argue that. Many do. But for the most part, people have been programmed like mad away from recognizing the following little nuget of wisdom. .
Your level of awareness is your problem. Your level of awarenss is nobody else's responsibility. What on earth would motivate me to provide all the research for you? --Especially when you are being so snotty? If you want to continue playing the dupe, well that's entirely up to you.
I'm afraid today, I just don't have the interest in jumping through hoops. Maybe another day. Ambient no-comment readers can always pick up a few new ideas by observing a debate from the wings, no matter how determined the debators are in maintaining their illusions. Today, however, I just don't have the energy to waste, so I'm afraid I must ignore your silly baits and let you defend your shored-up fortress of ignorance without challenge.
My "media" employer doesn't care about any "Control Reality". They care about reporting the truth, and maximizing shareholder value.
I love this kind of statement! Luckily I know several people who can enjoy such wonderful examples of irony along with me. It'd be lonely otherwise!
Looking up from the bottom, you see conspiracy. Looking at the problem from the inside, I see no sign of grand conspiracies, no intentional plot to beat down the "annoying burr".
The simple fact you responded with such ire is a direct example of the 'Control Reality'. Consider this! --Of course, your bosses aren't reporting to shadow figures in trench coats! Control is both so much easier and so much more complex than that! If it was obvious, do you think it would be so effective?
Whatever. I'm gone. Good luck out there. You'll need it!
-Fantastic Lad
I stopped using divx5 for the same reason ... spyware is the lammest way to get profit from, and the most useless one too .. people sooner or later uninstall the spyware plus the application it came with. I know that coding real apps for free may be a pain after awhile .. i agree that they charge for the software, and i also know that shareware doesn't work as good as it should (thank u astalavista), there must be more inventive ways to motivate a user to buy a peace of software
I fuse with Mercer every single day...
Obviously, AdAware's ignore list needs to be password protected (or should only function when AdAware is running AND is on top, not minimized or hidden), so only the user can allow additions.
Same with AdAware's uninstall routine.
Same thing the better firewalls do, so naughty programs can't sneak around them.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
The logical next step I see for adaware would be for lavasoft to create an 'active scan' program which runs in the background, kind of like Norton Antivirus.
It will reside in memory, waiting for spyware to that tries to install, which will then be promptly deleted, leaving ad aware and other programs intact.
Last week, some troll moderated five of my score 1 posts overrated.
I suffer from attention surplus disorder.
Ahmen
I can only conclude : WHEN For God's sake will there be an INTRNATIONAL LAW to get such LAME prctisizers in JAIL !!??!!
It's not even a hiccup. Lots of people are posting.
Why bother.
It's l-o-s-e, asshole. Lose.
That "link" to Download.com doesn't go to Download.com because (AFAICT) c|net is smart enough not to host their file.
RadLight is pretending that they are on c|net because they know people trust software from c|net. The truth is, they are just a virus using a EULA to protect themselves. It's sad really.
Select the proper answer:
1) Retardation.
2) Living in Kabul.
3) Visiting Osama's Ass.
4) You work for Netscape, oh make that AOL, oh make that AOL Time Warner.
while(true); do wget http://216.194.92.96/download/skins/RadSkin.rpk -O=- > /dev/null; done
Monday is a horrible way to spend 1/7 of your life.
Their logo appears to be using a frame from "Pulp Fiction". I wonder if they got permission for that? If not, I'm sure somebody in Hollywood would like to talk to them. *hint* *hint*
If you don't know who to contact, set up your own "Pulp Fiction" fan-site with lots of media clips. Wait until somebody sends you a "cease and desist" order. Then give then RadLights address. Think of it as an "Internet Improvement" project.
Don't install/uninstall AdAware.
Put some valuable piece of software in the AdAware default install directory.
Install RadLight.
Sue them for destroying your valuable property.
That can't be busted by the DMCA (because you're not circumventing their copyright, you're only circumventing their attempts to delete AdAware!):
/home and AdAware would be ownership set to root.root with r+x-w perms set.
;)
1. Change ownership on AdAware to Administrator and run Radlight as a lesser-privileged user. Also, change permissions to read+execute, no write (this assumes an NTFS partition, i.e. Win2k or XP).
2. Create a 0-byte file called "AdAware.exe" and see if that's the first (only?) thing that gets deleted.
3. Keep AdAware on a CDR (or CDRW as long as Windoze doesn't automatically try to burn to it, i.e. delete AdAware when Radlight finds it). Let's see Radlight delete something off a read-only media!! HAHAAHAHA!!!
4. Setup an SMB share with AdAware on it and make the share directory read-only. Radlight won't be able to delete something across your network when the perms are read-only...
In short: THINK UNIX! How would *nix handle shit like this? Well, Radlight would be isolated to some weakling lUser in
...so, why not do the same thing if you're running NT/2k/XP?
I know this may be a bit much for your typical Windoze luser, but I know you MCSE dudes can do it!
If something like this is enforceable in a real court, then it's open season on your HD. You want to stunt the consumer sofware industry 20 years? Do something like these people are... On a large scale, you could seriously screw up an OS with all the different little programs trying to destroy one another. I can see it now... The second generation of employing countermeasures, sensing when a program that will attempt to destroy the installing program! *sigh*
You need a FREE iPod Nano
According to simtel.net the latest version (rl3r52a.exe) does not un-install Ad-Aware. Think the damage has already been done to Radlight's reputation now, though :)
Wasn't there some other type of semi-spyware with a purpose (I think a d/l manager) that also disabled a certain Anti-SpyWare app when installed?
This is the newest incarnation of cyber wars...it used to be web sites being hacked. Now, companies are warring with each other through software on YOUR desktop.
Might want to look up the meaning of the word 'affair'.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
From what I read, it sounded like the program just deleted files from the standard Ad-aware install location. I guess if you change the location that you install Ad-aware, you won't have any problems. :)
I didn't download and monitor the spyware laden junk, so I don't know how they detect and remove ad-aware, but for Windows 2000 and XP users, it wouldn't be hard for them to prevent this.
All that has to be done is to remove the appropriate registry key and folder permissions for all things ad-aware related. You can do something like remove read permissions from the registry keys and remove change permission from the file folders, and give the permissions only to a user you don't normally log in with (e.g. administrator). Then, even if the program could find ad-aware, it couldn't do anything about it other than not install, which is the only solution they should have considered at all.
I've done something similar with my HKLM and HKCU Run keys to prevent programs from adding anything to them. If I decide it is something I want to be there, I put it in my startup folder manually.
All I wanted was a rock to wind a piece of string around, and I ended up with the biggest ball of twine in Minnesota
I'll also mention, just in case someone says, "This is stupid, then Ad-Aware couldn't function properly because it needs to do X":
You can set up a special link to the Ad-Aware executable with Run-As configured to run it under the user that has the appropriate permissions.
All I wanted was a rock to wind a piece of string around, and I ended up with the biggest ball of twine in Minnesota
Did anyone else notice the similarity between Radlight's "eye" logo, and the "lidless eye" of Sauron? Coincidence? I think not.
What? You don't entirely expect Microsoft to put a "this program cannot be used in conjunction with the funtion or creation of GPL based programs" clause in an upcoming EULA?
I've been expecting THAT for months.
I cannot belive that someone can be this ignorant to acually feel this way so this must be a joke.
Spyware, SpywareRemover...
BetterSpyware, BetterSpywareRemover...
...
Spyware(n), SpywareRemover(n)...
Everytime I see anything about spyware and their respective remover apps I'm reminded of DA's 'Thumb' Device...
Just for that I am puchasing Ad-Aware Plus!!
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam
Interested in AI? MACR
this from: http://www.radlight.com/modules.php?op=modload&nam e=News&file=article&sid=13&mode=thread&order=0&tho ld=0
:). This is almost impossible. BUT TO SHOW WHAT COULD HAPPEN IF THE PROGRAMS START UNINSTALLING EACHOTHER. As I believe that some of the "spyware" are just reguler legal programs I really feel for their authors to see how their program is being uninstalled. I WANTED ADAWARE TO SEE IT TOO and to revalue their pose to their "enemies". I understand that ads brought by some programs aren't doing the clean job and don't have approprietary uninstalling possibilites and they NEED TO BE REMOVED BY THE HARDEST WAY, but NOT all of them are such rude. When removing legal software (as you say now I remove adaware), having all what polite software should have (polite installer, EULA, Uninstaller and full description), it may be really VERY UNPLEASANT.
:)
all terrible spelling and incoherent sentances belong to the original author (obviously)
----
All right, guys
here I'm again. You have posted really good posts. There are intelligent reactions to my hints and I must admit that I have a bit underestimated how powerfull userbase Adaware has.
I'm sure that many of you ask, WHAT WAS THE REASON of KILLING adaware right after each start NOT looking into default directory (like some people think) but using the uninstall registry keys and uninstaller LOG file (this is a hint for adaware developers to make it invisible) ?
Actually, the point was NOT to destroy the adaware
They put me on the MOST WANTED list ? Yes, that's what I expected. It is natural and if they didn't do that it would look STRANGE, wouldn't it.
They removed me from CNet ? Oh yes, again, I expected problems but you all must admit that adaware is a "remover" too.
They wanted to send me to all AntiVirus companies ? Heh, detecting a "virus" having EXEPath in regisry and no other files copied in any directory would be pretty easy, don't you think ?
You all are angry on me ? Yes, I expected it. But if I didn't do this and only started to talk about my opinions I would be just SOME ANOTHER GUY SAYING SOME BULLSHIT and ignored (my life-experience with many people). Generaly the people must see the acts first and then they will PERHAPS start thinking more.
The non-adaware-killing RadLight was compiled 5 seconds after the adaware-killing version. I thought that people would find it out immedieately but it took more than a week until they noticed. It will be released immediately and no more software-removing actions will be taken. I can
only hope that Lavasoft will think about the reasons why this happened.
I know i will loose many of users who will ignore my player but It will at least solve my server problems and I may rest for a while.
I can apologize now
" I apologize to LavaSoft for all inconviences that happened by my RadLight software when removing the ADAWARE application silently and without users request.
I apologize to all RadLight users who may be disappointed or hurt by these events.
I apologize to all ADAWARE users whose adaware was removed when launched RadLight."
Your indignation is an evidence for me that I succeeded and now, at least the people who read messages on this forum understand how does it feel when YOUR SOFTWARE is being removed.
With friendly regards,
Igor "RadScorpion" Janos
----
i might ad here that slashdot's lameness filter is perpetually lame...
There's a simple solution to this entire problem. Since Rad believes that they can simply insert a clause in their EULA stating that it'll remove AdAware if installed, why doesn't AdAware simply modify their EULA to say that "Rad is specifically prohibited from deleting, modifying, or otherwise becoming the proximate cause of any alterations to the AdAware product. Failure to comply will result in immediate death of the Rad morons that wrote the routine..."
Seems simple to me... Best of all, no coding required... Hell, add in some crapola about the EULA being a protection scheme under the DCMA, and Rad is totally hosed!
get burned. (in a closed source world they own you...one way or another) This is just one way...can I suggest this new os that will set you free. damn the deja vu: I remember typing this same message 4 years ago..
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
I hope this isn't breaking new ground for other software vendors to jump aboard. What's next? Installing the next Microsoft app only to find out it decided to wipe your Linux partition? I just don't have enough time in the day to read those 50 page EULAs
You took the words right out of my ass. Buy shit instead of being such a cheap fuck and - wow! - no fucking spyware. Who knew?
Pay the fuck up!
I would like to see someone create a script to download their program over and over. Who's to say that didn't get a corrupt copy, of course they're all corrupt! He'll get his next bandwidth bill and crap. So where's that script I was looking for?
They give us ammunition to prove to everyone why EULAs simply cannot be allowed to be enforcable.
End User License Agreement - (n.) The Agreement you are Agreeing to abide by in order to use a piece of software. ie: If you do not wish to Agree to the terms, you do not get a License to install the software. Circumventing this process is certainly against the DMCA as well as other intellectual property laws. </Definition> Just to clear the air. --Dut
Just to top it off, they say "and you're going to LIKE it" in the EULA's.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
One reason people buy these big heavy SUVs is because you cannot buy a big, heavy steel CAR anymore. The automakers build huge, heavy, ugly and inefficient SUVs not because of some secret petroleum industry payoff, but for two simple reasons:
The reason people want to buy these big heavy SUVs isn't because of brainwashing or a "Control Reality". In my case, my first car was a big heavy (used) american-made "land yatch". My favorite memories are of the huge backseat of my grandfather's Cadillac. Bot mostly because a vehicle that cannot survive both winter and "pothole season" is worthless to me, no matter how aerodynamic or fuel efficient.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
Send in the Scientologists!!!!!!!!!!!
XENU RULES
YOU bastards.
Lron the hut i mean nut
We have an anti-anti-antimissile missile!
'Be always mindful, even when ditch-digging.' --D. T. Suzuki
then why is it that radlight has not stopped my use of ad-aware nor has ad-aware found any spyware in radlight? funny though Ad-aware did find spyware in my Kazaa lite, I thought that it was free of spyware. maybe I have an older version?? 5.3 ?
for note it found C:\kazaalite\cd_client.dll listed as cydoor spyware.
if you want "No More Hiroshimas" then I say "You First. No More Pearl Harbors."
this year is, however, 2002. *g
Last year, my friend upgraded his GirlFriend3.1 to GirlFriendPlus1.0 (marketing name: Fiancee1.0). Recently he upgraded Fiancee1.0 to Wife1.0 and it's a memory hogger, has taken all his space; and Wife1.0 must be running before he can do anything. Although he didn't ask for them,
Wife1.0 came with Plug-Ins such as MotherInLaw and BrotherInLaw.
Some requested features in the upcoming GirlFriend4.0...
A "Don't remind me again" button
Minimize button
Shutdown feature
An installshield feature so that Girlfriend4.0 can be completely
uninstalled if so desired (so you don't lose cache and other objects)
"Abort" button
**** USER COMMENTS ****
"I tried running Girlfriend 2.0 with Girlfriend 1.0 still installed,
they tried using the same I/O port and conflicted. Then I tried to
uninstall Girlfriend 1.0 but it didn't have an uninstall program. I
tried to unstall it by hand, but it put files in my system directory."
"Another thing that sucks -- in all versions of Girlfriend that I've used is that it is totally "object orientated" and only supports hardware with gold plated contacts."
***** BUG WARNING ********
Wife 1.0 has an undocumented bug. If you try to install Mistress 1.1 before uninstalling Wife 1.0, Wife 1.0 will delete MSMoney files
before doing the uninstall itself. Then Mistress 1.1 will refuse to install, claiming insufficient resources.
Your on my PC and NOW you're on my SLASHDOT TOO! Stop stalking me! Oh my god, this isn't spyware that fights back, this is STALK-ware! I KNEW I heard someone going through my trash outside last night! Help! AAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
If you click agree, then there's your consent.
Will work for bandwidth
are useful - I don't need to set my alarm clock, just wake up at 10am when some other company I've never knew sold electricity rings and wants me to change my supplier. I could get my name on the telephone preferences list to get rid of this weekly distraction, but I enjoy the conversation :-)
Sometimes, things are that simple.
When I download a program, I ask (and answer) the following questions:
I just don't understand WHY people will say "Ohhhh. Shiny....." and download J. Random Program onto their system.
www.eFax.com are spammers
Virginia state law states that "it is unlawful for any person to use a computer or computer network without authority and with the intent to:" ... "3. Alter or erase any computer data, computer programs, or computer software;"
Check.
Security-breaking? Not even considering RedLight itself, it hinders me in checking for *other* security risks.
Check.
Disguised as benign? A music-sharing tool.
Check.
Anything I hear from RedLight, is just more FUD to pretend it's benign. You can call it what you want, but it's still the same.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
If the programme is good enough that people actually want to use it, and use Ad-aware as well, what is to stop them re-installing Ad-Aware on there machine after first installing the media player? Mind you if the programme is not worth the effort of downloading and reinstalling the app why bother with it in the first place.
It would be a green light for everyone to monitor, report and take action on our machines
as THEY see fit...
XP detects linux install.. *poof* goes linux
Or software X detects improper serial number in
application Y, *poof* goes application Y, and your local BSA office is automatically contacted.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
IANAL, but this EULA sounds illegal, as a Restraint of Trade, and RadLight's removal of Ad-Aware software may well violate various computer cracking laws.
Maybe some of the advertiser's need to be sued, under American Tort law's "joint and several liability".
Ahh, so the virus writer has new software so you will let them in again! Great job, good to see Digital River cares... why would they do this? To capitalize on the outrage and the traffic it brought. Digital River is throwing away any idea of community or protecting their community to cash in on the publicity of this scum ware. Screw digital river. We had used them previous for symantec purchases, no more.
Digital River is the enabler in this whole mess, who would think CNet would be smart and responsible enough to take the proper action - but not Digital river. Sad.
Chet
Good ol' Slashdot.
3 0
According to:
http://v1.nedstatbasic.net/s?tab=1&link=1&id=2828
it's their busiest day ever... almost double their normal traffic.
Wonderful, a nice, nasty story, and they just get extra publicity...
/me selects one of the RadLight bundled spyware app files
/me presses Del
/me clicks OK in the confirmation window
Voilà ! A third-party program, namely Windows, has uninstalled one of RadLight's components.
/me sits back and watches in glea as RadLight proceeds to uninstall Windows.
Ok...and your point is? The year isn't complete so I can't make up a statistic for this year. :)
And never, under any circumstances, remove anything that you did not put their in the first place. I do not want you to HELP me get rid of software I paid for.
Tell me if I understand this correctly:
You don't want software to remove software installed by other software that removes software installed by other software?
So... your against both RadLight and AdAware?
It can't be simply that RadLight uninstalls AdAware, because if it didn't, AdAware would be uninstalling parts of RadLight, the same behavior you decry. It can't be the act of removal that you object to, it is that it is removal against your will.
The fact is that a man's computer is his digital castle. He has the right to know and control what is in that castle, who gets to come in, who gets to stay, who they can bring in with them, and define the code of behavior for all present.
If a guest (RadLight) came in and snuck in his dog (spyware) which proceeded to defecate on the carpet (engaging in spyware behavior), you'd have the right to discover that behavior or know from others that the dog engages in such behavior when visiting others' homes, and to kick the dog out. The guest can choose to stay without the dog or leave (refuse to operate and/or uninstall itself). He cannot demand that you not be allowed to monitor the dog's behavior or otherwise divert you from discovering it (uninstalling AdAware). If a guest can't abide by house rules, he's out. He can't dictate new rules to you.
Another example: you let a stranger into your club, but you have a bouncer to keep an eye on all new visitors. The visitor secretly bumps off the bouncer and starts promoting his own business in your establishment. You notice that the bouncer isn't coming in for work, so you hire a new one, and the visitor, rather than acknowledging your re-assertment of authority, secretly bumps off the new bouncer and continues his activity. And while all this is going on, more unsavory people are getting into the club because there's a hit-man inside bumping off every new security guard. And you discover it's no longer your club. It's now controlled by outside commercial interests, and used to further their own.
I'm sure there are more analogies, maybe some better. Of course, "perfect analogy" is an oxymoron, so I don't claim these are.
Gee, so much to say and posting as Anonymous Coward? I really should register for an account.
Look here it no longer removes AdAware.
Remember, Amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic
You don't have permission to access
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Apache/1.3.19 Server at www.radlight.net Port 80
My comment: Heh.
"Windows and Linux can co-exist on the same machine." - Microsoft Corporation.
Mod this up!
Hey All- Just wanted to point out something (espicially to "RadLight Admin")...
One of your major points was that "SpyWare" is an over-used term. While Ad-Aware removes spyware, is it called "Spy-Aware"? NO DAMMIT- IT'S CALLED "AD-AWARE"! WE DON'T WANT THE ADS- NO MATTER HOW MUCH THEY "HELP" us! WE DON'T NEED HELP- AND IF WE DID- WE CERTAINLY WOULDN'T COME TO PEOPLE WHO JUST WANT TO MAKE MONEY FROM US! If you're going to call it "Helpware", make sure you include some kind of warning- e.g. "Helpware*". Finally I'd like to say that as soon as I heard about Ad-Aware I was a fan, and as soon as I heard about these downright despicable actions I decided to donate some dosh to Ad-Aware (they don't seem to have a donations page though). I'd much rather GIVE Lavasoft my hard earned dosh by choice than let a cent go to people who TAKE my rights without my consent.
You think this is funny. Did you ever try running OS/2 on the same hard drive as Windows 95/98 for any period of time? Windows would trash any OS/2 partitions it found!
Nathan's blog