And at the star of the thread, before your first reply:
Celanor: "If my mother were to walk into best buy and buy a Pavilion dv9000 with Ubuntu preinstalled, she's going to have to go through what would have to be hell for her and back to get it running: boot options like "nokvm noapic noacpi", blacklisting bcm43xx, installing ndiswrapper over a wired connection, manually installing flash for their 64-bit system"
Knuckles: "What are you talking about? You would of course buy Ubuntu preinstalled precisely because you would have to do none of these thing. The OEM has installed and configured Ubuntu with the hardware working. (If not you would rightfully complain just as you would about a broken Windows installation.)" (Note: I changed the OEM to Dell, since that was the significant Ubuntu new lately)
And there you replied discussing shitty manufacturer installs.
It seems that this subthread has overtaxed your attention span. The topic was specifically the out-of-the-box situation of Dell computers that you ordered with Ubuntu installed.:)
Unless Dell (or Ubuntu) has done something different, to my knowledge, you still have to do this:
Huh? Well ok, two clicks: Open menu System -> Administration -> Restricted Driver Manager. Check the box. This has worked since 7.04 (Feisty), and AFAIK that's the release that Dell uses. 7.10 (Gutsy) will enable it by default. Of course, even not using the proprietary driver would not mean to use the VGA drivers. The minimum would be the free nv driver, which has totally ok 2 D performance and provides XV.
Maybe it's just me, but I had to explicitly add a "resume=/dev/sda5" (or whatever) argument to my kernel commandline. And while my wireless worked out of the box, I have a friend who has the one broadcom card that isn't even supported with the native (bring-your-own-firmware) drivers, so I'm going to have to walk him through ndiswrapper.
That's all on a Dell laptop you bought with Ubuntu installed? And your friend's problem is, too? I can hardly believe that. Same with sound.
Regarding codecs: actually, most codecs work (with automatic download), mostly better than with Windows (ever tried to play a DivX file in default Windows?) but they all pop up a warning re patents, etc., when you first use them. Same for mp3.
Actually you were not talking about video drivers, at least not in a way that could be understood:) You just said, "apparently, the Dell Ubuntu is a stock Ubuntu".
But anyway, I think that video drivers are, by now, not among the major worries. If you buy a Dell with Intel on-board, you have free drivers anyway. If you buy an Nvidia, you have fine proprietary drivers that just need one click to enable. Just ATi sucks so far, and it seems they will improve soon. As long as wireless and hibernation/suspend works out of the box, the hardware is mostly taken care of, and the mailing list posting shoes that they actively work on improving Ubuntu on Dell.
So, apparently, shitty installs like this reflect poorly on Linux, and not on the manufacturer.
Shitty installs like this? What's "this"? Do, for example, the Ubuntu installations by Dell force the buyer to blacklist broadcomm modules, or whatever? Or is this all made up on the spot?
If my mother were to walk into best buy and buy a Pavilion dv9000 with Ubuntu preinstalled, she's going to have to go through what would have to be hell for her and back to get it running: boot options like "nokvm noapic noacpi", blacklisting bcm43xx, installing ndiswrapper over a wired connection, manually installing flash for their 64-bit system.
What are you talking about? You would of course buy Ubuntu preinstalled precisely because you would have to do none of these thing. The OEM has installed and configured Ubuntu with the hardware working. (If not you would rightfully complain just as you would about a broken Windows installation.)
Exactly. And consider that time from airport to central station is hardly a meaningful measurement. What I am interested in is the time to go from the actual starting point to the actual end point of my journey. 10 minutes saved on the maglev are easily lost again on the tram, taxi, or train from the central station.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm glad that we cleared up every detail. I hope I can sleep now ;)
I know that you are not Celanor, but nevertheless that was the topic of the thread when you started replying.
And at the star of the thread, before your first reply:
Celanor: "If my mother were to walk into best buy and buy a Pavilion dv9000 with Ubuntu preinstalled, she's going to have to go through what would have to be hell for her and back to get it running: boot options like "nokvm noapic noacpi", blacklisting bcm43xx, installing ndiswrapper over a wired connection, manually installing flash for their 64-bit system"
Knuckles: "What are you talking about? You would of course buy Ubuntu preinstalled precisely because you would have to do none of these thing. The OEM has installed and configured Ubuntu with the hardware working. (If not you would rightfully complain just as you would about a broken Windows installation.)" (Note: I changed the OEM to Dell, since that was the significant Ubuntu new lately)
And there you replied discussing shitty manufacturer installs.
Neither of those were Dell, actually.
:)
It seems that this subthread has overtaxed your attention span. The topic was specifically the out-of-the-box situation of Dell computers that you ordered with Ubuntu installed.
Unless Dell (or Ubuntu) has done something different, to my knowledge, you still have to do this:
Huh? Well ok, two clicks: Open menu System -> Administration -> Restricted Driver Manager. Check the box.
This has worked since 7.04 (Feisty), and AFAIK that's the release that Dell uses. 7.10 (Gutsy) will enable it by default. Of course, even not using the proprietary driver would not mean to use the VGA drivers. The minimum would be the free nv driver, which has totally ok 2 D performance and provides XV.
Maybe it's just me, but I had to explicitly add a "resume=/dev/sda5" (or whatever) argument to my kernel commandline. And while my wireless worked out of the box, I have a friend who has the one broadcom card that isn't even supported with the native (bring-your-own-firmware) drivers, so I'm going to have to walk him through ndiswrapper.
That's all on a Dell laptop you bought with Ubuntu installed? And your friend's problem is, too? I can hardly believe that. Same with sound.
Regarding codecs: actually, most codecs work (with automatic download), mostly better than with Windows (ever tried to play a DivX file in default Windows?) but they all pop up a warning re patents, etc., when you first use them. Same for mp3.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=315517&cid=20829157
I'm stupid. Sorry to OP.
Now then, on to the discussion: Really, what has arab world contributed to the science world?
/. discussion, just scroll up.
Uh, are you serious? Let's start with Algebra. For other links I refer you to this very
Just ignorant.
Actually you were not talking about video drivers, at least not in a way that could be understood :) You just said, "apparently, the Dell Ubuntu is a stock Ubuntu".
But anyway, I think that video drivers are, by now, not among the major worries. If you buy a Dell with Intel on-board, you have free drivers anyway. If you buy an Nvidia, you have fine proprietary drivers that just need one click to enable. Just ATi sucks so far, and it seems they will improve soon. As long as wireless and hibernation/suspend works out of the box, the hardware is mostly taken care of, and the mailing list posting shoes that they actively work on improving Ubuntu on Dell.
The codec situation is IMHO much worse.
Apparently, the Dell Ubuntu is a stock Ubuntu
Hmmm, apparently not; or at least, Dell-specifics go into Ubuntu proper, which is good since it means you can reinstall from any Ubuntu CD. See: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-October/024498.html
Debra + Ian: http://www.debian.org/intro/about#history
So, apparently, shitty installs like this reflect poorly on Linux, and not on the manufacturer.
Shitty installs like this? What's "this"? Do, for example, the Ubuntu installations by Dell force the buyer to blacklist broadcomm modules, or whatever? Or is this all made up on the spot?
cannibalizing does not mean what you think it means.
If my mother were to walk into best buy and buy a Pavilion dv9000 with Ubuntu preinstalled, she's going to have to go through what would have to be hell for her and back to get it running: boot options like "nokvm noapic noacpi", blacklisting bcm43xx, installing ndiswrapper over a wired connection, manually installing flash for their 64-bit system.
What are you talking about? You would of course buy Ubuntu preinstalled precisely because you would have to do none of these thing. The OEM has installed and configured Ubuntu with the hardware working. (If not you would rightfully complain just as you would about a broken Windows installation.)
ESR made the same claim in one or more articles several years ago.
Exactly. And consider that time from airport to central station is hardly a meaningful measurement. What I am interested in is the time to go from the actual starting point to the actual end point of my journey. 10 minutes saved on the maglev are easily lost again on the tram, taxi, or train from the central station.
*whoosh*, but you would have to have experience with Deutsche Bahn to get the joke.
Sending the URL twice will not double your web traffic.
I bet we wouldn't have half the problems we do now if we just stopped
Maybe I'm stupid, but why do you need a hash for the sole purpose of simply sending just the server name or IP?
but it seems to me that it's a hell of a lot easier to drop a cable onto the seabed than to route a cable under or above roads and private lands.
There are still people who haven't read Neal Stephenson's Mother Earth, Mother Board?
Hi, just a little update :) It seems the reason that gsynaptics is not default in Gutsy is that they implemented the functionality where it belongs. This landed a few days ago: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/gutsy-changes/2007-September/008382.html
Well, as has been mentioned, Ubuntu doesn't install any daemons listening on any port, at all, by default
This is too simplified. DHCP has always run, and avahi does since feisty.
Have you ever pronounced "Ubuntu" to someone who isn't that computer literate?
And have you ever heard a Chinese person pronounce "Windows"?