"Still, it's questionable whether more PCs did have USB ports thasn iMacs. the iMac was massively successful, and many PC manufacturers did not add USB ports until very late in the game."
I made my statement of my guess otherwise because I had a major manufacturer PC from 1995 that had USB ports on it. I recall that a PC having USB ports at that time was not unusual. This was 3 years prior to the iMac.
"Even printers and mouses were more annoying before USB"
entirely OT, but can't you remember the plural for "mouse"?
"Of course people are stealing music and movies and whatever else all over the place. P2P, bittorrent, whatever."
Since it is technically impossible (the systems copy files), you will be hard pressed to name ONE instance of any stealing ever done of music, movies, or ANY other files using p2p, bittorent, gnutella, LimeWire, old Napster, or anything like that. Better check on what words mean before you come back on this one. It's not splitting hairs: there are fundamental differences in definitions being ignored by you.
USB only really became useful a couple of years ago due to the "killer app" (cheap thumb drive) and the digital camera takeover. Otherwise, you are right. I withdraw my complaint.
"Lemme help design the battlestars. Pleeeeeeaaaaase?"
I've got a box of old 1970s-era telephones in the basement you can use for the intercom system. I might be able to rustle up a relatively-Cylon-proof 80386 token ring network for you as well.
In all fairness, it is really not much of a problem anymore (now that non-USB devices have actually faded and that the floppy really has died). But for several years, you had to pay extra with a Mac to get removable storage and standard ports that came built-in on PCs costing far less. The single button mouse sucked too compared to the double button model as well. I was not referring to "Windows pre-installed". Referring only to hardware. PCI slots helped to. They've come a long way from the years when Apple even had bizarre plugs on the back of the computers just for the hell of it and wonky incompatible monitors.
"ugh. in 1998 most PC on the market DID NOT HAVE functional USB ports and they ALL HAD LEGACY serial ports."
Why have them in 1998? (tho I remember seeing them on every new PC I looked at in 1996, well before 1998). This was before the digital camera and thumb drive boom that made them necessary.
"the imac overnight became a significant market for USB device manufacturers"
Are you so sure? I would guess that many times more PCs had USB in 1998 than there were iMacs. That's just a guess, I am not sure. Yes, there was a market for some things on the iMac then: such as keyboards and mice and printers which then and now worked just as well with standard ports.
"Apple is a premium hardware maker and designer, but their OS isn't that special, and developers as a whole have rejected it."
It's the the other way around. Their hardware is quirky, non-standard (but less and less so) and often slower and is missing parts compared to run-of-the-mill PC's costing far less. OS-X? Now THAT is what shines.
I don't think the iMac made a difference with the later binge of "printer, camera, and USB slave device". After all, it had 5% of the market. However, you had the other 95% of the market that had USB ports on the systems, and the peripheral makers wanted a tiny plug with a fast interface. There's only so much 5% of the market can do, and there were plenty of forces to make USB popular eventually. The digital camera helped, and the thumb drive was the "killer app".
A questionable moral point of view, that it is a good idea to get rid of a good working peripheral (like a printer). At the time of the iMac "USB only" design blunder and for years afterwards, USB really was not necessary. Existing mice, keyboards, and printers worked just fine. It would be several years before the real "killer app" for USB, the thumb drive, really became viable. USB ports were only made into "must have" and the floppy was only rendered obsolete with the advent of the cheap USB thumb drive....something that occured just a couple of years ago. Long after iMac forced a decision that should not have been made so early.
Yes, the floppy hung around forever. But why are you *glad* it was gone? Did it offend your sense of morality or something? Unless you had a tiny brick computer or a laptop, the space it took up did not matter.
"the USB move was probably the smartest platform move apple made"
That was a terrible move: very anti-user. Apple would have been much better off phasing out non-USB ports only after the number of non-USB devices had dwindled a lot. What Appel did really screwed the user: making a machine without necessary standard-of-the-day ports in order to force the user to buy dongles or new peripherals because Apple thought that it was somehow immoral for users to use non-USB interface devices. (I've got a nice parellel-port printer I can still use on most PCs because they still have a port. Why? Because the printer is STILL A GOOD PRINTER, and PC manufacturers tend to respond to what the users need rather than Apple, which has fits of forcing morality like this.)
"Apple makes wonderful machines that work. Dell makes crap. Enough said."
After seeing all those PC games at Gamestop, we might amend that to say ""Apple makes wonderful machines that work. Dell machines that not only work, but they play also."
"The whole system is fucked, so people justify ripping off the corporation, which in turn rips off the artist (who is already being ripped off by the corporation). The future will be better for the artists"
Only possibly, only some of the time. What is a rip-off? The loss of something, right? Well, if someone downloads an MP3 from Allofmp3.com that they would otherwise never purchase otherwise (due to the price difference and high-quality DRM-free product that Allofmp3.com offers), then there is no loss to the corporation OR artist, and thus no rip-off. Such downloads are a significant percentage of music downloads, right?
Now I'm going to have to all the way to Russia with cash and bring back a suitecase full of MP3s. As long as I can get past the MP3-sniffing dogs at La Guardia, I should be OK.
So it looks like you have a sloppy lawyer who uses words which also happen to have specific legal meaning for pejorative effect without regard to what they really mean and ignoring the fact that the legal meaning does not apply in the situation?
You said: "The previous poster does no such thing. They state that copyright infringement is not theft" in response to my message. However, the post I was responding to clearly said "The concept of theft has grown to illicit copies of information.". I did see the message about "may or may not be a crime depending upon where you are", but I agreed with this one. I think you have some strings in this thread crossed and are objecting to my response to a posting that I did not respond to, and are misinterpreting my comments for the wrong message. I was responding to the one about SSN's and wallets. Check the real threads and come back, eh?
"So, then... you don't mind if I -NOT STEAL- your SSN, driver's license info, ATM card # and PIN?"
Ah, the old fallacy used by those who have no idea what "theft" means. You are implying that if it is not theft, then it is OK. Are you not aware that the law books and moral codes are full of many different crimes that are not theft, but are still imagine that!!! wrong? The meanings of words change, but the meaning of "theft" has not.
"and a record is no longer a big, black, plastic disk"
Where did you get that idea? Only records are called records. No one calls a tape, CD, or mp3 file a "record" that I have ever heard at all.
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"Still, it's questionable whether more PCs did have USB ports thasn iMacs. the iMac was massively successful, and many PC manufacturers did not add USB ports until very late in the game."
I made my statement of my guess otherwise because I had a major manufacturer PC from 1995 that had USB ports on it. I recall that a PC having USB ports at that time was not unusual. This was 3 years prior to the iMac.
"Even printers and mouses were more annoying before USB"
entirely OT, but can't you remember the plural for "mouse"?
"Of course people are stealing music and movies and whatever else all over the place. P2P, bittorrent, whatever."
Since it is technically impossible (the systems copy files), you will be hard pressed to name ONE instance of any stealing ever done of music, movies, or ANY other files using p2p, bittorent, gnutella, LimeWire, old Napster, or anything like that. Better check on what words mean before you come back on this one. It's not splitting hairs: there are fundamental differences in definitions being ignored by you.
"Did they ever find the person that pointed the gun to your head and forced you to buy an iMac in 1998?"
Yeah, she ran HP until very recently.
....and PCs had USB a little before the Mac did. It was around for years until the proliferation of devices that really needed it came along.
USB only really became useful a couple of years ago due to the "killer app" (cheap thumb drive) and the digital camera takeover. Otherwise, you are right. I withdraw my complaint.
"Lemme help design the battlestars. Pleeeeeeaaaaase?"
I've got a box of old 1970s-era telephones in the basement you can use for the intercom system. I might be able to rustle up a relatively-Cylon-proof 80386 token ring network for you as well.
In all fairness, it is really not much of a problem anymore (now that non-USB devices have actually faded and that the floppy really has died). But for several years, you had to pay extra with a Mac to get removable storage and standard ports that came built-in on PCs costing far less. The single button mouse sucked too compared to the double button model as well. I was not referring to "Windows pre-installed". Referring only to hardware. PCI slots helped to. They've come a long way from the years when Apple even had bizarre plugs on the back of the computers just for the hell of it and wonky incompatible monitors.
"ugh. in 1998 most PC on the market DID NOT HAVE functional USB ports and they ALL HAD LEGACY serial ports."
Why have them in 1998? (tho I remember seeing them on every new PC I looked at in 1996, well before 1998). This was before the digital camera and thumb drive boom that made them necessary.
"the imac overnight became a significant market for USB device manufacturers"
Are you so sure? I would guess that many times more PCs had USB in 1998 than there were iMacs. That's just a guess, I am not sure. Yes, there was a market for some things on the iMac then: such as keyboards and mice and printers which then and now worked just as well with standard ports.
"Apple is a premium hardware maker and designer, but their OS isn't that special, and developers as a whole have rejected it."
It's the the other way around. Their hardware is quirky, non-standard (but less and less so) and often slower and is missing parts compared to run-of-the-mill PC's costing far less. OS-X? Now THAT is what shines.
I don't think the iMac made a difference with the later binge of "printer, camera, and USB slave device". After all, it had 5% of the market. However, you had the other 95% of the market that had USB ports on the systems, and the peripheral makers wanted a tiny plug with a fast interface. There's only so much 5% of the market can do, and there were plenty of forces to make USB popular eventually. The digital camera helped, and the thumb drive was the "killer app".
"So .... if China tries to establish a moon base ... we'll attack it?"
Such a conflict would have a risk of igniting the nuclear waste dump on the moon, and sending our satellite away from us.
A questionable moral point of view, that it is a good idea to get rid of a good working peripheral (like a printer). At the time of the iMac "USB only" design blunder and for years afterwards, USB really was not necessary. Existing mice, keyboards, and printers worked just fine. It would be several years before the real "killer app" for USB, the thumb drive, really became viable. USB ports were only made into "must have" and the floppy was only rendered obsolete with the advent of the cheap USB thumb drive....something that occured just a couple of years ago. Long after iMac forced a decision that should not have been made so early.
Yes, the floppy hung around forever. But why are you *glad* it was gone? Did it offend your sense of morality or something? Unless you had a tiny brick computer or a laptop, the space it took up did not matter.
"the USB move was probably the smartest platform move apple made"
That was a terrible move: very anti-user. Apple would have been much better off phasing out non-USB ports only after the number of non-USB devices had dwindled a lot. What Appel did really screwed the user: making a machine without necessary standard-of-the-day ports in order to force the user to buy dongles or new peripherals because Apple thought that it was somehow immoral for users to use non-USB interface devices. (I've got a nice parellel-port printer I can still use on most PCs because they still have a port. Why? Because the printer is STILL A GOOD PRINTER, and PC manufacturers tend to respond to what the users need rather than Apple, which has fits of forcing morality like this.)
"Apple makes wonderful machines that work. Dell makes crap. Enough said."
After seeing all those PC games at Gamestop, we might amend that to say ""Apple makes wonderful machines that work. Dell machines that not only work, but they play also."
"Artists (or, more important to the RIAA, the artists' labels) aren't seeing money from AllofMP3"
How does this equate to "theft"? The kids who sneak in under the big top to see the circus for free are not thieves (even if they are trespassers).
"by making an unauthorized copy you are still taking (and therefore stealing) one of his rights"
Again, just because it is wrong or a violation does not make it theft. Also, this does not meet the definition of "Taking".
"If you had a wife, and I slept with her, have I violated your rights?..."
This is actually an appropriate analogy. Like the situation with copyright violation, this has nothing to do with the issue of theft.
"I read it as Vista, as in the next version of Windows"
Cue advert: "Vista. It's everywhere you want to be". Fade into still shot of Gates Borg.
"Support artists, not thieves"
Hmmmm? Where is there any theft in the Allofmp3's operations?
"The can weighs over 50 lbs and periodically yells slogans at you. "Feel the burn!" "Go for it!" And soforth."
ugh.
I see. The John Belushi and Robin Williams diet?
"The whole system is fucked, so people justify ripping off the corporation, which in turn rips off the artist (who is already being ripped off by the corporation). The future will be better for the artists"
Only possibly, only some of the time. What is a rip-off? The loss of something, right? Well, if someone downloads an MP3 from Allofmp3.com that they would otherwise never purchase otherwise (due to the price difference and high-quality DRM-free product that Allofmp3.com offers), then there is no loss to the corporation OR artist, and thus no rip-off. Such downloads are a significant percentage of music downloads, right?
Now I'm going to have to all the way to Russia with cash and bring back a suitecase full of MP3s. As long as I can get past the MP3-sniffing dogs at La Guardia, I should be OK.
So it looks like you have a sloppy lawyer who uses words which also happen to have specific legal meaning for pejorative effect without regard to what they really mean and ignoring the fact that the legal meaning does not apply in the situation?
You said: "The previous poster does no such thing. They state that copyright infringement is not theft" in response to my message. However, the post I was responding to clearly said "The concept of theft has grown to illicit copies of information.". I did see the message about "may or may not be a crime depending upon where you are", but I agreed with this one. I think you have some strings in this thread crossed and are objecting to my response to a posting that I did not respond to, and are misinterpreting my comments for the wrong message. I was responding to the one about SSN's and wallets. Check the real threads and come back, eh?
"So, then... you don't mind if I -NOT STEAL- your SSN, driver's license info, ATM card # and PIN?"
Ah, the old fallacy used by those who have no idea what "theft" means. You are implying that if it is not theft, then it is OK. Are you not aware that the law books and moral codes are full of many different crimes that are not theft, but are still imagine that!!! wrong? The meanings of words change, but the meaning of "theft" has not.
"and a record is no longer a big, black, plastic disk"
Where did you get that idea? Only records are called records. No one calls a tape, CD, or mp3 file a "record" that I have ever heard at all.