The footprint of OOo, on the other hand, is disgusting. I don't know if that has to do with the Java integration, but I don't remember it taking up nearly as much in 1.x as in 2.x beta builds.
OO 1.x used Java as well (albeit not quite as heavily). I'm pretty sure that OO's porkiness has nothing to do with the Java integration, though.
There are no third party Java implementations at all, whether commercial or open source or free. Java isn't a language or a platform, it's a proprietary implementation from Sun that's been ported to a few platforms by various licensees.
This isn't really true. There are compatible third-party implementations of all Java variants, except J2SE (ie, J2ME, J2EE, etc).
And the GNU Classpath guys have an awfully good start on J2SE at this point.
That's not unique to Wikipedia, though. Echo chambers for incorrect data are everywhere on the web (and really everywhere in journalism, but in a slightly more commercial sense there).
Eclipse 3.1 is the newest released version. It's not the fastest thing in the world, but with lots of RAM it is more than usable for Java code. I have no idea about the perf of the Python plugins, though.
Since apparently it wasn't obvious, perhaps you are running multiple apps that each require different versions of the web server (ie, one is old and requires Apache 1.x, but you prefer 2.x for everything else)?
For Word processing, there are already several alternatives other than OpenOffice. Honestly, I think that invalidates your entire point.
The problem with MS's XML is that it is not openly managed (which the OASIS formats clearly are).
PDF is probably there as a purely practical matter, as almost anyone will have a PDF reader available (and they are easily generated from Open software packages).
Unfortunately the pace of development these days is absolutely glacial, and it is rapidly falling behind the specs that it used to be first to implement.
I think most people do know about Netbeans. Most are probably in one of the following camps.
"I used Netbeans 3... it was junk/slow/complicated/annoying" - I agree. Fortunately, 4 and above are much better
"Netbeans 4??!? But everyone uses Eclipse" - Ignorance abounds.:)
"But all my plugins are for Eclipse" - Eclipse does build some nice barriers to competition for some people with this.
"I've used both, but xyz feature keeps me on Eclipse" - That's me! The ant builds are nice, but automatic, dynamic, incremental compiles beat them ANY day.:)
Anyway, I think the real answer is just that most people still prefer Eclipse. I do drop in to Netbeans for their profiler, though (it's slick)!
Dude, I know you said not to whine about the inaccuracies of Alexa, but I had to check for myself. I have a website that gets about 100 pageviews per day right now.
We are ranked at about 1900 (better than either above site by a WIDE margin). Something is majorly wrong there!
Yes, I know this is not scientific, and doesn't prove that one desktop is better than the other, it's just the result of some random Googling.
But, I do think it is clear that there is NOT a clear winner in the Linux Desktop space right now, therefore the statement that "obviously most prefer KDE" is false.
I agree... it doesn't really matter if KDE is better or vice versa. What is crystal clear is that it is not obvious which one is better, or even which one the majority of Linux users prefer.
Even more fun was his use of X crashes, that most likely were X driver related. But on Solaris he was using X.Org (the same thing he would use on a modern Linux distibution).
Nor does any Linux distro/live CD handle dual monitors well at all. In fact, I'd say one of the most frustrating things about X is the braindead configuration. Having to edit a file to enable dual monitors, resolutions, etc is a pain in the ass.
Excellent point... dual monitor support under Linux has seriously lagged so far. It works, but I've seen very few tools to make it easy.
Software support, sure. Hardware support for SPARC, sure.
But real first-class support for the OS from parties other than Sun? No way, and the kicker is that there won't ever be (it isn't in Sun's best interests).
It hasn't been "quietly" put up on the internet - it has been there for a while. MS uses it for testing and research. If you do notice, it is WAY better than Google's start page too
Slashdot Mirror
OO 1.x used Java as well (albeit not quite as heavily). I'm pretty sure that OO's porkiness has nothing to do with the Java integration, though.
"I don't know about RedHat or Mandrake, but Java does not run "fine" on Debian."
:)
Are you kidding? I've seen (and administered) plenty of Debian boxes running Java servers and Java GUI apps.
No significant problems whatsoever.
Maybe you should just try downloading from Sun instead of some random garbage apt source?
"Repeating a lie often enough doesn't make it true. Java does not run on my Linux box, for example, while Mono does."
I have to ask, what backwater Linux distribution doesn't support Java at this point?
I've used tons of them, and haven't had an issue getting Sun's Java to run on them in years.
This isn't really true. There are compatible third-party implementations of all Java variants, except J2SE (ie, J2ME, J2EE, etc).
And the GNU Classpath guys have an awfully good start on J2SE at this point.
That's not unique to Wikipedia, though. Echo chambers for incorrect data are everywhere on the web (and really everywhere in journalism, but in a slightly more commercial sense there).
Eclipse 3.1 is the newest released version. It's not the fastest thing in the world, but with lots of RAM it is more than usable for Java code. I have no idea about the perf of the Python plugins, though.
Since apparently it wasn't obvious, perhaps you are running multiple apps that each require different versions of the web server (ie, one is old and requires Apache 1.x, but you prefer 2.x for everything else)?
" "several alternatives" but pretty much based off of the same codebase."
Abiword will support it. It is not based off of OpenOffice.Org.
KOffice isn't either, and it supports it.
For Word processing, there are already several alternatives other than OpenOffice. Honestly, I think that invalidates your entire point.
The problem with MS's XML is that it is not openly managed (which the OASIS formats clearly are).
PDF is probably there as a purely practical matter, as almost anyone will have a PDF reader available (and they are easily generated from Open software packages).
As usual, get the information straight from NASA
Press Release, Pictures
Actually, wasn't win32s a precursor to win32? And not particular similar to the final win32 API at that?
Unfortunately the pace of development these days is absolutely glacial, and it is rapidly falling behind the specs that it used to be first to implement.
It was the best a few years ago, though.
- "I used Netbeans 3... it was junk/slow/complicated/annoying" - I agree. Fortunately, 4 and above are much better
- "Netbeans 4??!? But everyone uses Eclipse" - Ignorance abounds.
:)
- "But all my plugins are for Eclipse" - Eclipse does build some nice barriers to competition for some people with this.
- "I've used both, but xyz feature keeps me on Eclipse" - That's me! The ant builds are nice, but automatic, dynamic, incremental compiles beat them ANY day.
:)
Anyway, I think the real answer is just that most people still prefer Eclipse. I do drop in to Netbeans for their profiler, though (it's slick)!Already been done... sort of. See Visual MainWin for J2EE. It's based off of Mono's implementation of the
Oh, and don't forget Java on
Dude, I know you said not to whine about the inaccuracies of Alexa, but I had to check for myself. I have a website that gets about 100 pageviews per day right now.
We are ranked at about 1900 (better than either above site by a WIDE margin). Something is majorly wrong there!
Good point... although a common alternative definition is Really Simple Syndication.
> Practically every poll shows KDE has far more users[...]
I thought I'd do a quick test of this. I went to Google, and put in Gnome vs. KDE Poll. The first result was this poll.
I also found This Poll.
And then there's a recent OSNews Poll.
Two of these three showed Gnome winning.
Yes, I know this is not scientific, and doesn't prove that one desktop is better than the other, it's just the result of some random Googling.
But, I do think it is clear that there is NOT a clear winner in the Linux Desktop space right now, therefore the statement that "obviously most prefer KDE" is false.
I agree... it doesn't really matter if KDE is better or vice versa. What is crystal clear is that it is not obvious which one is better, or even which one the majority of Linux users prefer.
Even more fun was his use of X crashes, that most likely were X driver related. But on Solaris he was using X.Org (the same thing he would use on a modern Linux distibution).
Excellent point... dual monitor support under Linux has seriously lagged so far. It works, but I've seen very few tools to make it easy.
It also means that the installer was rather fragile. It's been ages since I've needed to do anything even remotely similar with a Linux installer.
Software support, sure. Hardware support for SPARC, sure.
But real first-class support for the OS from parties other than Sun? No way, and the kicker is that there won't ever be (it isn't in Sun's best interests).
Somehow seems appropriate. It's too bad the Patent Office doesn't see things the same way with these applications...
Google supports this as well.
Well, Google does buy a _lot_ of servers...
(ok, for the pedantic, I know they are probably still all Xeons)