Second, whatever happened to voting with one's wallet, or eyeballs in this case? I mean, he acts like they are obligated to make their content available to him, and that their apparent refusal to support his browser somehow impinges on his human rights. What the hell?
According to Wikipedia:
The Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA) is "a body politic and corporate, and a political subdivision" of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts...
Looks like it was his own government telling him to fuck off. Yeah, no grounds for any grievance there.
And yeah, you can call me kettle, but I'm coming at this from sadness, not anger, so that's got to be worth something.
What if they did offer it to them, but PBS declined because it would offend their other sponsors, like Exxon-Mobil? It wouldn't be the first time that has happened.
Then when they start blocking access to Google (or whateveR) they'll say, look, we're policing our own network now. We're NOT a common carrier.
Oh, then I guess you won't be needing this right-of-way from the community to run your lines and fiber anymore. We'll take that back and setup our own municipal common carrier. You can individually negotiate the easments you need to run your infrastructure with property owners one at a time, like all other non-common carriers do.
Scouting is ment to communicate, exchange and explore culture on an international level.
Except for gays and atheists.
The reason why the scouts could become such a huge movement was - and ever will be - cooperation and communication with other people in other regions/countries.
Except for gays and atheists.
Everyone can rest assured that we scouts are free human being who were taught to think for themselves.
Except for gays and atheists, who are taught only where the door is.
Spamhaus tracks the Internet's Spammers, Spam Gangs and Spam Services, provides dependable realtime anti-spam protection for Internet networks, and works with Law Enforcement to identify and pursue spammers worldwide.
Spamhaus is a voluntary list of places you might not want to allow to deliver email to you.
Which list is assembled randomly. Being on the list doesn't mean Spamhaus is implying anything about the organization responsible for the hosts on the addresses in that list. Being on the Spamhaus list no more or less an indictment of the activities of that organization than being on a who's who list.
NOT.
It's more than "a voluntary list" it's a blacklist. Stop pretending it's not accusing the owners of the IP address of spamming. Spamming is a crime in many jurisdictions. Spamhaus is therefore opening themselves to libel if their information is inaccurate. And so long as they keep thumbing their nose at the legal system, they will accumulate default judgments against them, like this one. You can't accuse someone of a crime, and when they call you into court to make you accountable for your accusation, laugh at them, and still expect to prevail.
Actually it is your problem. You're using an ISP that probably hosts spammers.
No, I am trying to email your boss so we can meet to finalize the contract between our two companies, and you are trying to insert a completely unrelated issue into that business. If I were your boss, your ass would be making a whitelist entry or you'd be looking for another job. The primary job of a mail admin is to ensure the mail gets through, as much as possible given the limitations of SMTP. False positives are unacceptable to real businesses. Maybe your two-penny operation can afford to piss off your two-penny clients, but not us.
Do you REAALLLYYY think the users of such lists do not understand this? They do, they don't care about your problem. It's YOUR problem. Call your ISP and bitch.
So do you use the RBLs by choice, or not? If you use them by choice, and legit mails from a source that happens to be on the RBL is blocked, that's your problem. You can only say it's the sender's probpem if you have no choice or control about what your mail server blocks. But you justify use of the RBL by saying it's your choice to use it or not. So you can do something about the legit mails, you just choose not to. It is your problem, you just don't care.
IF there was a reliable, fast, accurate, and extremely vengeful method of individually reporting users to ISPs and they actually acted, this secondary solution would not be necessary.
Never fails. When the choices are limited to just two out of reliable, fast, accurate, or vengeful, anti-spammers choose fast and vengeful every time. Just like the Neocons.
92K messages in a maillog file? Over what time period? Is that a toy server?
One of 8 in a cluster, from just this morning. But this is not an e-peen comparision. Stuff it.
My current estimates say that $ORK is blocking ~ 400 to 500 million messages a day using DNSBLs, about 80% of which is the sbl-xbl.
We send that many in a month (different mail clusters, the big ones e-peen boy), and very few percentage-wise are blocked by RBLs. Anti-spammers hate us and think we're spammers. Yeah, we're listed on Spamhaus too. Couldn't bother us less. MSN/Hotmail performance problems are a much bigger problem for us, as far as impacting our financial goals with the mass mailings. We opt you in at purchase time (its in the click-to-agree you clicked but didn't read), and you can only opt-out later, just the opposite of what antis recommend. The antis hate us, but our management won't change the policy on opt-in because nothing the antis do affects our results in any meaningful way. We still meet our numbers, we still hit the revenue goals. I use the RBLs to help keep spam away from our employees, but as I have shown, if they all went offline it would not allow 4 times as much spam to enter our network. RBLs are just not that effective. They block about 1% of mails, not 25% as claimed. Yeah, yeah, I know at your site they block much more. I am talking about the internet as a whole. Only a small percentage of sites use RBLs exclusively to make spam decisions, and only a few percent more factor RBL listings into spam decisions (like my SA cluster for inbound mails). RBLs are a blip, a non-starter. They make their operators and users feel good, and that's about all the impact it has. If anything RBLs make antis who use them complacent, thinking the RBL is all that anyone ever needs. LOL.
That's how I know this estimate is shit. RBLs do not stop much spam. I know because according to them, I work for a spammer, and it hasn't stopped us.
The biggest bad argument (there are many, but this is the biggest one) is that use of the RBL is optional. But that doesn't matter at all. Buying a newspaper is optional, but that doesn't mean the newspaper is immune from being found guilty of libel or slander because no one is forced to read it. Nor does it matter that Spamhaus is publishing their claim that certain parties are spammers in DNS, rather than something with more notoriety, like the New York Times. A court can find that a libel against, say, Dr. Stephen Hawkings is more damaging when published in Nature than if it were published in Harper's because the former publication reaches more of Dr. Hawkings colleagues than the latter one, so the damage done to Dr. Hawkings reputation is greater. A plaintiff could argue with the same reasoning that Spamhaus publishing libelous claims in DNS is more damaging to the plaintiff than if the same claim were published in The Sun.
RBL operators take notice: you better document all your listings copiously, with the same rigor as newspapers publishing stories about alleged scandalous activities by our politicians and business people document their sources. You may have to defend those listings against a libel suit. Those who accept anonymous submissions are treading on the thin ice of a libel suit.
is the Net prepared to deal with a 4-fold increase in spam hitting MTAs overnight?
Not gonna happen.
Total number of recipients logged in one maillog file: 92033
Total number of messages in this logfile that got a SpamAssassin score increase thanks to XBL or SBL listing: 47818
Total number of scores that may have potentially been pushed over our threshhold (9.0) by the SBL/XBL score: 985
Big effing deal. All the RBLs could go offline this afternoon, and it would have minimal impact on our spam scoring system. It isn't necessary for any RBLs to exist to control spam. It just isn't.
what pisses me off about this whole situation is that using the Spamhaus RBL is OPTIONAL, and initiated by the receiving servers. Nobody said you HAVE to use Spamhaus, people CHOOSE to.
Just because it is optional to buy a newspaper, does not mean that newspaper is immune from libel and slander suits. Spamhaus is publishing a claim about the parties they blacklist, namely that they are involved with spamming. If a court determines the claim was false or misleading, Spamhaus could be liable for libel and/or slander. It is immaterial whether use of the blacklist is optional.
When you have thousands of servers, even very reliable stuff, you can still get a couple of hardware failures a week with an inventory that size, and so "all the time" you have an some open RMA case for a replacement of one kind or another.
The only known problem occurs when the called server first accepts MAIL FROM: and then rejects the RCPT TO: with an error referring back to the source.
Yeah, dude. Sendmail does that too if delay_checks is enabled, which it often is for certain spam checks. Your callback has a problem interoperating with frakking sendmail, not just some obscure spam filter.
No, they accept mails addressed to postmaster@gmail.com, even from the null sender.
Trying 64.233.163.27... Connected to gsmtp163.google.com. Escape character is '^]'. 220 mx.gmail.com ESMTP 39si3446212nzk helo foo 250 mx.gmail.com at your service mail from:<> 250 2.1.0 OK rcpt to:<ReDaCtEd@gmail.com> 250 2.1.5 OK rset 250 2.1.0 Flushed 39si3446212nzk mail from:<> 250 2.1.0 OK rcpt to:<postmaster@gmail.com> 250 2.1.5 OK rset 250 2.1.0 Flushed 39si3446212nzk quit 221 2.0.0 mx.gmail.com closing connection 39si3446212nzk Connection closed by foreign host.
They are probably doing a VRFY on another connection, which is part of the RFCs, but which is often turned off by MTAs.
Callbacks actually do MAIL FROM:, RCPT TO:, and then RSET the connection before the DATA segment. Relying on VRFY, as you said, would ensure many failed checks and bounced emails.
What annoys me about callbacks is the extraneous log entries it generates on my mail server, which makes it more difficult to interpret log entries for troubleshooting. You have to weed out the callbacks, since they often resemble incomplete or failed transactions.
Slashdot Mirror
According to Wikipedia:
Looks like it was his own government telling him to fuck off. Yeah, no grounds for any grievance there.
And yeah, you can call me kettle, but I'm coming at this from sadness, not anger, so that's got to be worth something.
How about we call you Jism-boy instead?
stfu
Well, then it would have been aired on a different channel, right?
It hasn't been aired on any TV channel.
What if they did offer it to them, but PBS declined because it would offend their other sponsors, like Exxon-Mobil? It wouldn't be the first time that has happened.
Then when they start blocking access to Google (or whateveR) they'll say, look, we're policing our own network now. We're NOT a common carrier.
Oh, then I guess you won't be needing this right-of-way from the community to run your lines and fiber anymore. We'll take that back and setup our own municipal common carrier. You can individually negotiate the easments you need to run your infrastructure with property owners one at a time, like all other non-common carriers do.
Kthxbye!
Of course, if you grew up never knowing otherwise or thinking outside the box someone has constructed around you, you may be so indoctrinated.
Nothing like that happens to people who grew up in the West. We have always been at war with Eastasia...
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
So say all the people with malicious intent.
Scouting is ment to communicate, exchange and explore culture on an international level.
Except for gays and atheists.
The reason why the scouts could become such a huge movement was - and ever will be - cooperation and communication with other people in other regions/countries.
Except for gays and atheists.
Everyone can rest assured that we scouts are free human being who were taught to think for themselves.
Except for gays and atheists, who are taught only where the door is.
What the fuck ever, dude! We all see how successful that argument has been for Spamhaus. Are you their counsel?
Buy the game. Refuse the EULA. Return it. Reason for return: did not agree to EULA.
The wondrous free market provides no other means of effective protest. Hail Santa!
From their home page. Ever seen it?
Spamhaus is a voluntary list of places you might not want to allow to deliver email to you.
Which list is assembled randomly. Being on the list doesn't mean Spamhaus is implying anything about the organization responsible for the hosts on the addresses in that list. Being on the Spamhaus list no more or less an indictment of the activities of that organization than being on a who's who list.
NOT.
It's more than "a voluntary list" it's a blacklist. Stop pretending it's not accusing the owners of the IP address of spamming. Spamming is a crime in many jurisdictions. Spamhaus is therefore opening themselves to libel if their information is inaccurate. And so long as they keep thumbing their nose at the legal system, they will accumulate default judgments against them, like this one. You can't accuse someone of a crime, and when they call you into court to make you accountable for your accusation, laugh at them, and still expect to prevail.
That's real cute. Weasels are varmints. We shoot varmints. Especially varmints humping something.
Actually it is your problem. You're using an ISP that probably hosts spammers.
No, I am trying to email your boss so we can meet to finalize the contract between our two companies, and you are trying to insert a completely unrelated issue into that business. If I were your boss, your ass would be making a whitelist entry or you'd be looking for another job. The primary job of a mail admin is to ensure the mail gets through, as much as possible given the limitations of SMTP. False positives are unacceptable to real businesses. Maybe your two-penny operation can afford to piss off your two-penny clients, but not us.
Do you REAALLLYYY think the users of such lists do not understand this? They do, they don't care about your problem. It's YOUR problem. Call your ISP and bitch.
So do you use the RBLs by choice, or not? If you use them by choice, and legit mails from a source that happens to be on the RBL is blocked, that's your problem. You can only say it's the sender's probpem if you have no choice or control about what your mail server blocks. But you justify use of the RBL by saying it's your choice to use it or not. So you can do something about the legit mails, you just choose not to. It is your problem, you just don't care.
IF there was a reliable, fast, accurate, and extremely vengeful method of individually reporting users to ISPs and they actually acted, this secondary solution would not be necessary.
Never fails. When the choices are limited to just two out of reliable, fast, accurate, or vengeful, anti-spammers choose fast and vengeful every time. Just like the Neocons.
92K messages in a maillog file? Over what time period? Is that a toy server?
One of 8 in a cluster, from just this morning. But this is not an e-peen comparision. Stuff it.
My current estimates say that $ORK is blocking ~ 400 to 500 million messages a day using DNSBLs, about 80% of which is the sbl-xbl.
We send that many in a month (different mail clusters, the big ones e-peen boy), and very few percentage-wise are blocked by RBLs. Anti-spammers hate us and think we're spammers. Yeah, we're listed on Spamhaus too. Couldn't bother us less. MSN/Hotmail performance problems are a much bigger problem for us, as far as impacting our financial goals with the mass mailings. We opt you in at purchase time (its in the click-to-agree you clicked but didn't read), and you can only opt-out later, just the opposite of what antis recommend. The antis hate us, but our management won't change the policy on opt-in because nothing the antis do affects our results in any meaningful way. We still meet our numbers, we still hit the revenue goals. I use the RBLs to help keep spam away from our employees, but as I have shown, if they all went offline it would not allow 4 times as much spam to enter our network. RBLs are just not that effective. They block about 1% of mails, not 25% as claimed. Yeah, yeah, I know at your site they block much more. I am talking about the internet as a whole. Only a small percentage of sites use RBLs exclusively to make spam decisions, and only a few percent more factor RBL listings into spam decisions (like my SA cluster for inbound mails). RBLs are a blip, a non-starter. They make their operators and users feel good, and that's about all the impact it has. If anything RBLs make antis who use them complacent, thinking the RBL is all that anyone ever needs. LOL.
That's how I know this estimate is shit. RBLs do not stop much spam. I know because according to them, I work for a spammer, and it hasn't stopped us.
Well then, you have no reason to be pissed off. Mods, can we disappear this thread? It's off-topic.
The biggest bad argument (there are many, but this is the biggest one) is that use of the RBL is optional. But that doesn't matter at all. Buying a newspaper is optional, but that doesn't mean the newspaper is immune from being found guilty of libel or slander because no one is forced to read it. Nor does it matter that Spamhaus is publishing their claim that certain parties are spammers in DNS, rather than something with more notoriety, like the New York Times. A court can find that a libel against, say, Dr. Stephen Hawkings is more damaging when published in Nature than if it were published in Harper's because the former publication reaches more of Dr. Hawkings colleagues than the latter one, so the damage done to Dr. Hawkings reputation is greater. A plaintiff could argue with the same reasoning that Spamhaus publishing libelous claims in DNS is more damaging to the plaintiff than if the same claim were published in The Sun.
RBL operators take notice: you better document all your listings copiously, with the same rigor as newspapers publishing stories about alleged scandalous activities by our politicians and business people document their sources. You may have to defend those listings against a libel suit. Those who accept anonymous submissions are treading on the thin ice of a libel suit.
is the Net prepared to deal with a 4-fold increase in spam hitting MTAs overnight?
Not gonna happen.
Total number of recipients logged in one maillog file: 92033
Total number of messages in this logfile that got a SpamAssassin score increase thanks to XBL or SBL listing: 47818
Total number of scores that may have potentially been pushed over our threshhold (9.0) by the SBL/XBL score: 985
Big effing deal. All the RBLs could go offline this afternoon, and it would have minimal impact on our spam scoring system. It isn't necessary for any RBLs to exist to control spam. It just isn't.
what pisses me off about this whole situation is that using the Spamhaus RBL is OPTIONAL, and initiated by the receiving servers. Nobody said you HAVE to use Spamhaus, people CHOOSE to.
Just because it is optional to buy a newspaper, does not mean that newspaper is immune from libel and slander suits. Spamhaus is publishing a claim about the parties they blacklist, namely that they are involved with spamming. If a court determines the claim was false or misleading, Spamhaus could be liable for libel and/or slander. It is immaterial whether use of the blacklist is optional.
When you have thousands of servers, even very reliable stuff, you can still get a couple of hardware failures a week with an inventory that size, and so "all the time" you have an some open RMA case for a replacement of one kind or another.
Check it out.
The only known problem occurs when the called server first accepts MAIL FROM: and then rejects the RCPT TO: with an error referring back to the source.
Yeah, dude. Sendmail does that too if delay_checks is enabled, which it often is for certain spam checks. Your callback has a problem interoperating with frakking sendmail, not just some obscure spam filter.
Apparently, this is not true for Gmail.
No, they accept mails addressed to postmaster@gmail.com, even from the null sender.
Trying 64.233.163.27...
Connected to gsmtp163.google.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 mx.gmail.com ESMTP 39si3446212nzk
helo foo
250 mx.gmail.com at your service
mail from:<>
250 2.1.0 OK
rcpt to:<ReDaCtEd@gmail.com>
250 2.1.5 OK
rset
250 2.1.0 Flushed 39si3446212nzk
mail from:<>
250 2.1.0 OK
rcpt to:<postmaster@gmail.com>
250 2.1.5 OK
rset
250 2.1.0 Flushed 39si3446212nzk
quit
221 2.0.0 mx.gmail.com closing connection 39si3446212nzk
Connection closed by foreign host.
They are probably doing a VRFY on another connection, which is part of the RFCs, but which is often turned off by MTAs.
Callbacks actually do MAIL FROM:, RCPT TO:, and then RSET the connection before the DATA segment. Relying on VRFY, as you said, would ensure many failed checks and bounced emails.
What annoys me about callbacks is the extraneous log entries it generates on my mail server, which makes it more difficult to interpret log entries for troubleshooting. You have to weed out the callbacks, since they often resemble incomplete or failed transactions.