Don't worry; yes, he's only a troll but his words belie the typical insecurity that Americans have about their place in the world. They have their own sports like Baseball and "Foot"ball (that nobody else plays) because they have to be different from the rest of the world to re-inforce their "we are the best" image.
It's the same as their silly "spelling", their insistence on the absurd "system" for measurements, (distances, weights, volume...) and their absolutely braindead un-democratic governmental system, which has shown itself to be a farce.
BUT BUT BUT
There is a HUGE number of very well-educated, free-thinking, pro-choice, pragmatic and worldly people in the USA too, and they are the ones who suffer thanks to the behaviour of their asshole politicians and moronic christian-right idiots.
And for those who are interested, "Soccer" has more players that any other sport in the US, and its popularity is climbing rapidly. If it were true that 99% of Americans "don't care about the World Cup", why on >earth would ABC and ESPN be showing every game in HDTV? Why are the games being shown on at least three channels simultaneously? I think it'd be fair to say in reverse that the rest of the world couldn't give a shit about the "World" Series or the "Super" Bowl, two sporting events that are pretty sad and self-important.
Beg to differ. Hofstadter's work is pretentious and often the well-organised rantings of someone who knows very little about a lot of things. I have met Mr. Hofstadter and was thoroughly unimpressed by his approach to things academic, particularly to music. He is an expert at taking other people's work and discussing it at such a length as to make it appear to the reader to be *his* work. Furthermore, what really irked me is that he honestly believes he knows a lot about music, yet I was convinced --even within a few minutes of talking with him-- that his knowledge of music is the superficial knowledge of an amateur music lover, not a scholar or an academic. I have heard similar impressions from colleagues in the fields of linguistics, mathematics, and computing theory.
So avoid Hofstadter for the amateur that he is. Go read some real science.
BTW for those who are interested, the title of one of his books is "Le Ton Beau de Marot". For those who haven't read the book, the title refers to a French poet, Marot, and is a play -- in French -- on the word "Tombeau", which means "tomb" and "Ton Beau" which means "Beautiful Sound". Hofstader's explains this in careful detail to the reader to demonstrate the difficulties of the French language. Bravo, Mr. H. on your linguistic prowess. I wonder, however, if anyone pointed out to you that it really should be "Le Beau Ton de Marot", as "Ton Beau" is not the correct word order? Duh. Kinda fucks up yer title, don't it, Dougie?
You're right. Java can't compete with ASP.NET with an MVC framework. However, STRUTS IS NOT THE ANSWER. It is dopey and poorly-designed and has "amateur" written all over it.
It's not even CLOSE to where WO was in 1996... sadly. But RIGHT NOW you can get Tapestry, for FREE, for all your J2EE creamy goodness, from http://tapestry.sourceforge.net and you can *almost* catch up to WO. In in some cases, even pass it.
Just because there are books about Struts doesn't mean it's a good tool. There are plenty of books about VBScript, after all.
I wish this ignorant motherf*cker left his name, but he's too chicken.
"Noone in particular uses WebObjects" because the majority of "developers" are like the idiotic jerkoff who left this message: too stupid to know his own arse from his dog's because he's got his head up one or the other.
Just because 'NSync is popular doesn't make them good, but there are millions of teenage girls who think they're the best band in the world. Popularity means NOTHING about quality.
WebObjects is definitely a niche technology, but only because it's on a higher plane. If you want to truly expand your horizons as a web developer, spend some time with it. It is COMPLETELY different to all other Web technologies, with the simple exception of Tapestry. Tapestry is a very nice, clean framework that is similar in mindset to WO. It's Open Source and it's free so stop wasting your time with Struts, which is a sad, pathetic piece of horse-pus, and elevate yourself out of the quagmire that you're wallowing in.
Well, no, it's not unique to Japanese at all. In fact, it is extremely common for languages to put the verb at the end of the sentence. The most common group of these languages are "SOV" languages, or Subject-Object-Verb languages. "OSV" languages are EXTREMELY rare.
Many languages, even languages in our own Indo-European language family (Farsi, Hindi/Urdu, Bengali) have this syntax. German almost does, but the truth is that it's only verbal particles that end up at the end: the actual verb in the sentence is still in the right place for an "SVO" language like English.
ObjC doesn't remove anything from C. C-style arrays are not object oriented, you are correct. Furthermore, numbers aren't object oriented either, right again.
However, the *objective-C* additions to C are *fully object oriented* as correctly stated in the original post. It has a dynamic runtime as flexible as Perl's and can cope with extremely complex dynamic binding, which C++ and Java can't do without massaging. It has polymorphism, inheritance and encapsulation. It goes one stpe further than Java and C++ (and most other OO languages) by having the concept of "Categories", which is one of the best things you could ask for when working with pre-built frameworks.
In short, it's a SUPERB language that is trivial to learn and very flexible.
Check your facts. ARM chips are used in many mobile devices, including the entire Psion family of organizers. They are also in the Cobalt Qube and Raq, the and are about to become the CPU in all the new devices from Palm. Calling them "rusty old chips" betrays your ignorance of technology: the ARM family of processors is one of the most rich, varied and technologically-advanced around.
OK, deal, no more cheap shots. I guess I just get irritated with people who whine about things that other people have put a lot of effort into and are giving away for free solely because it's cool technology. I think that's beyond criticism, so I never complain about stuff I get for free.
OK, I understand what you're saying about HTML widgets. The entire point of SW is to do a "best fit" UI depending on what it's rendering to. So, if it's rendering to HTML3 browsers, it will dumb down the interface but (in theory) retain functionality. All of that is transparent to the programmer and the user. You're right: to implement some things in HTML or DHTML is like pulling teeth, but with SW, it only needs to be done once.
Moreover, the whole reason for making the source available is to have people like you extend the functionality: if you want a Tk renderer, write one! It'd not be a difficult problem. There is already a project in the works to run SW apps using Perl/Gtk, and describing the UI using Glade, making it trivial to write and deploy apps that are truly distributed.
I like the SW way of doing things because it totally avoids HTML. As an app developer, you never need to worry about TD tags or forms or hidden fields. And, it's automatically deployable on many different platforms, remotely or locally.
The entire purpose of SW and OD is to avoid HTML and templates. This is utterly fundamental to the project. I guess the theory goes that a few years down the road, we'll have a much more sophisticated interface language running in web browsers, at which time SW will really come into its own. For now, limited to DHTML and HTML, I agree with you that the UI is limited. But that's not really the point, no?
So, I encourage you to take a stand and get yourself involved in SW. It would help the project, and if you wrote a Tk renderer, it would really bring things along.
Cheers, screamingPants
PS. Ok, I'll come clean, I helped out with the original SW project, hence my defence of it.
Re:Let the punishment fit the crime (Score:) by Master of Kode Fu on Friday October 29, @05:40PM EDT (#) (User Info) "Free" I have no problem with. Many good things come for free. Many bad things too (disease, for one, is free, guessing by the number of poor people who have 'em). My concern is whether or not a product serves the users well, the people for whom we write code. It's my opinion that HTML forms are a user interface nightmare and have really lowered the bar on user interface design. Simple things such as enabling and disabling controls require crazy workarounds, and even then, they don't quite work as well as the interface controls on GUIs for OSs.
dude, you are missing the point. OD is built using the SmartWorker framework, which attempts to take the "interface nightmare" away from the developer. If you look at the way a smartworker app is structured, it has no HTML in it whatsoever: SW handles all the translation into whatever GUI it's rendering to, be that IE5, Opera (yes, eventually), a Palm Pilot, or a cell phone. The OD team is building renderers for all these things... you could even run an SW app locally using a Perl/GTK renderer if you want. It has nothing to do with HTML. RTFM.
I re-iterate: It's free.
When they get around to providing lives and clues on a web page, I strongly suggest you bookmark that one.
Oh, rest assured, I will bookmark it using my OD bookmark manager. And when you're using someone else's computer and you can't remember where you bookmarked that "life" of yours, I'll be laughing at you.
What a bizzare perspective you have. Nobody is FORCING you to do anything at all, so why do you suggest that the developers of this "office-suite-on-a-browser" be FORCED to program using a web-based suite of development tools?
I find it amusing that you complain when you are given something for free. Some people work hard to provide something cool and free and you can only bitch about it.
Save your cynicism for the companies that deserve it.
Incidentally, I don't know if you use "cvsweb" but it's a PERFECTLY usable web-based development tool. I believe the OD boyz use it, too. So fit that punishment to your crime, fool.
Slashdot Mirror
Looks like Griff is planning something for tomorrow night...
Marty McFly Jr: https://twitter.com/mseamusmcflyjr
Marlene McFly: https://twitter.com/mcflygirl
Griff: https://twitter.com/bionic_griff
Griff's girl: https://twitter.com/SpikeYourBalls
Don't worry; yes, he's only a troll but his words belie the typical insecurity that Americans have about their place in the world. They have their own sports like Baseball and "Foot"ball (that nobody else plays) because they have to be different from the rest of the world to re-inforce their "we are the best" image.
It's the same as their silly "spelling", their insistence on the absurd "system" for measurements, (distances, weights, volume...) and their absolutely braindead un-democratic governmental system, which has shown itself to be a farce.
BUT BUT BUT
There is a HUGE number of very well-educated, free-thinking, pro-choice, pragmatic and worldly people in the USA too, and they are the ones who suffer thanks to the behaviour of their asshole politicians and moronic christian-right idiots.
And for those who are interested, "Soccer" has more players that any other sport in the US, and its popularity is climbing rapidly. If it were true that 99% of Americans "don't care about the World Cup", why on >earth would ABC and ESPN be showing every game in HDTV? Why are the games being shown on at least three channels simultaneously? I think it'd be fair to say in reverse that the rest of the world couldn't give a shit about the "World" Series or the "Super" Bowl, two sporting events that are pretty sad and self-important.
Troll.
Beg to differ. Hofstadter's work is pretentious and often the well-organised rantings of someone who knows very little about a lot of things. I have met Mr. Hofstadter and was thoroughly unimpressed by his approach to things academic, particularly to music. He is an expert at taking other people's work and discussing it at such a length as to make it appear to the reader to be *his* work. Furthermore, what really irked me is that he honestly believes he knows a lot about music, yet I was convinced --even within a few minutes of talking with him-- that his knowledge of music is the superficial knowledge of an amateur music lover, not a scholar or an academic. I have heard similar impressions from colleagues in the fields of linguistics, mathematics, and computing theory.
So avoid Hofstadter for the amateur that he is. Go read some real science.
BTW for those who are interested, the title of one of his books is "Le Ton Beau de Marot". For those who haven't read the book, the title refers to a French poet, Marot, and is a play -- in French -- on the word "Tombeau", which means "tomb" and "Ton Beau" which means "Beautiful Sound". Hofstader's explains this in careful detail to the reader to demonstrate the difficulties of the French language. Bravo, Mr. H. on your linguistic prowess. I wonder, however, if anyone pointed out to you that it really should be "Le Beau Ton de Marot", as "Ton Beau" is not the correct word order? Duh. Kinda fucks up yer title, don't it, Dougie?
It smacks of the same kind of lameness that permeates the entire JDK.
It's not even CLOSE to where WO was in 1996... sadly. But RIGHT NOW you can get Tapestry, for FREE, for all your J2EE creamy goodness, from http://tapestry.sourceforge.net and you can *almost* catch up to WO. In in some cases, even pass it.
Just because there are books about Struts doesn't mean it's a good tool. There are plenty of books about VBScript, after all.
"Noone in particular uses WebObjects" because the majority of "developers" are like the idiotic jerkoff who left this message: too stupid to know his own arse from his dog's because he's got his head up one or the other.
Just because 'NSync is popular doesn't make them good, but there are millions of teenage girls who think they're the best band in the world. Popularity means NOTHING about quality.
WebObjects is definitely a niche technology, but only because it's on a higher plane. If you want to truly expand your horizons as a web developer, spend some time with it. It is COMPLETELY different to all other Web technologies, with the simple exception of Tapestry. Tapestry is a very nice, clean framework that is similar in mindset to WO. It's Open Source and it's free so stop wasting your time with Struts, which is a sad, pathetic piece of horse-pus, and elevate yourself out of the quagmire that you're wallowing in.
Well, no, it's not unique to Japanese at all. In fact, it is extremely common for languages to put the verb at the end of the sentence. The most common group of these languages are "SOV" languages, or Subject-Object-Verb languages. "OSV" languages are EXTREMELY rare.
Many languages, even languages in our own Indo-European language family (Farsi, Hindi/Urdu, Bengali) have this syntax. German almost does, but the truth is that it's only verbal particles that end up at the end: the actual verb in the sentence is still in the right place for an "SVO" language like English.
ObjC doesn't remove anything from C. C-style arrays are not object oriented, you are correct. Furthermore, numbers aren't object oriented either, right again.
However, the *objective-C* additions to C are *fully object oriented* as correctly stated in the original post. It has a dynamic runtime as flexible as Perl's and can cope with extremely complex dynamic binding, which C++ and Java can't do without massaging. It has polymorphism, inheritance and encapsulation. It goes one stpe further than Java and C++ (and most other OO languages) by having the concept of "Categories", which is one of the best things you could ask for when working with pre-built frameworks.
In short, it's a SUPERB language that is trivial to learn and very flexible.
GO LEARN IT! Warning: it'll make you HATE Java.
Hahahahaha
Check your facts. ARM chips are used in many mobile devices, including the entire Psion family of organizers. They are also in the Cobalt Qube and Raq, the and are about to become the CPU in all the new devices from Palm. Calling them "rusty old chips" betrays your ignorance of technology: the ARM family of processors is one of the most rich, varied and technologically-advanced around.
OK, deal, no more cheap shots. I guess I just get irritated with people who whine about things that other people have put a lot of effort into and are giving away for free solely because it's cool technology. I think that's beyond criticism, so I never complain about stuff I get for free.
OK, I understand what you're saying about HTML widgets. The entire point of SW is to do a "best fit" UI depending on what it's rendering to. So, if it's rendering to HTML3 browsers, it will dumb down the interface but (in theory) retain functionality. All of that is transparent to the programmer and the user. You're right: to implement some things in HTML or DHTML is like pulling teeth, but with SW, it only needs to be done once.
Moreover, the whole reason for making the source available is to have people like you extend the functionality: if you want a Tk renderer, write one! It'd not be a difficult problem. There is already a project in the works to run SW apps using Perl/Gtk, and describing the UI using Glade, making it trivial to write and deploy apps that are truly distributed.
I like the SW way of doing things because it totally avoids HTML. As an app developer, you never need to worry about TD tags or forms or hidden fields. And, it's automatically deployable on many different platforms, remotely or locally.
The entire purpose of SW and OD is to avoid HTML and templates. This is utterly fundamental to the project. I guess the theory goes that a few years down the road, we'll have a much more sophisticated interface language running in web browsers, at which time SW will really come into its own. For now, limited to DHTML and HTML, I agree with you that the UI is limited. But that's not really the point, no?
So, I encourage you to take a stand and get yourself involved in SW. It would help the project, and if you wrote a Tk renderer, it would really bring things along.
Cheers,
screamingPants
PS. Ok, I'll come clean, I helped out with the original SW project, hence my defence of it.
dude, you are missing the point. OD is built using the SmartWorker framework, which attempts to take the "interface nightmare" away from the developer. If you look at the way a smartworker app is structured, it has no HTML in it whatsoever: SW handles all the translation into whatever GUI it's rendering to, be that IE5, Opera (yes, eventually), a Palm Pilot, or a cell phone. The OD team is building renderers for all these things... you could even run an SW app locally using a Perl/GTK renderer if you want. It has nothing to do with HTML. RTFM.
I re-iterate: It's free.
When they get around to providing lives and clues on a web page, I strongly suggest you bookmark that one.
Oh, rest assured, I will bookmark it using my OD bookmark manager. And when you're using someone else's computer and you can't remember where you bookmarked that "life" of yours, I'll be laughing at you.
What a bizzare perspective you have. Nobody is FORCING you to do anything at all, so why do you suggest that the developers of this "office-suite-on-a-browser" be FORCED to program using a web-based suite of development tools?
I find it amusing that you complain when you are given something for free. Some people work hard to provide something cool and free and you can only bitch about it.
Save your cynicism for the companies that deserve it.
Incidentally, I don't know if you use "cvsweb" but it's a PERFECTLY usable web-based development tool. I believe the OD boyz use it, too. So fit that punishment to your crime, fool.