I mean, come on; we're cloning pigs to harvest their organs. Doesn't this seem just a little creepy?
Why is that creepy? Because we've never done it before now? YAWN! Progress is about technological change, which can rapidly redefine what is "normal" and make new things seem "creepy" until it is an accepted part of culture. BR Here's a question for you: say you desperately need a new kidney (or whatever) to survive, do you really care where it was grown, be it a test tube, a pig, or what? No, you need the organ -- so you take it. That's what these people are doing -- they are doing it to help save your lives -- and you have the nerve to call it "creepy". Next time say "thanks a lot" or "wow, you folks are sure smart" instead.
Does anyone stop to think that saying, "it discriminates against the poor" means "it discriminates against black people" makes the racist assumption that black people are poor?
Not an assumption -- a statistical fact. Obviously not all black people are poor -- that remark would be racist -- but disproportionably enough that people stop and look at the consequences. Personally, I agree with you -- internet polling != discrimination -- but it's still worth thinking about.
Yes, that's why I wrote: "is the question as to whether everything will run quickly under linux with gnome/E?" because that is the what many people (read: me)will want to run on their boxen. I am not certain as to how well it will run: I've run it with a P75 w/8Megs ram, 1Meg Video Ram (REALLY BAD NEWS... talking 3 hour bootup), and I've tried it with a more modern computers with decent success (a K6 200 with 48 megs, and a 4Meg Video card). But that particular configuration seems suspect: It might be okay -- but I really don't know for sure.
That's.180 Hertz! I guess "geeks" don't know their SI abbreviations, either that or this machine has a knife switch on the side that you toggle back and forth to run the CPU clock.
Oops... good call on that one! My fault, not theirs.
Well, I can think of a great reason: QNX is great for simple things, but many users want more! And Linux can provide this... take a gander at the browser FAQ page for the i-opener: It doesn't support Java, Real G2, Flash, or Acrobat. Linux provides all of these things and more: such as proper word processing, games, the list goes on an on. If you can get that for $99 I say "whoo hoo!" to that!
Of course, there is the question as to whether everything will run quickly under linux with gnome/E. The system seems to be on the low side of possible (180 mHz processor, 32 megs RAM, 2 megs Video RAM (from linux-hacker spec pages)) -- which means it will run, but it won't be what we are used to with desktop machines. But it's enough to want me to go check it out!
I like what I've seen of Xbasic from the page you've given there... it seems like a wonderful program (I'm going to dl it when I get to Linux box at home).
It's not object oriented (so far as I could tell) but it is open source and free (as in beer) and basic-based. I can at least use it for some applications. Thanks a ton, man.
A ObjectBasic environment on Linux might be nice. It probably wouldn't help port VB applications however -- too many Windowsism
Yeah, good point on that. Even so, I would still have a starting place to begin when developing. Its hard to switch programming conventions after 10+ years of a language -- I tried Delphi when it first came out but I lost interest eventually: it didn't have much additional to offer over VB and I would have to switch to new programming conventions (such as putting a ';' at the end of every line -- nuts for a VB programmer).
Of course, if Delphi comes out for Linux -- now they have an advantage and I might finally bite the bullet and switch over to a new language. I suppose it would be sort of like "growing up". =)
I am VB programmer... despite the bad publicity the language gets, I was born and raised on GW-Basic, and then moved to VB way back in the old Win16 days. Now, I'm doing more and more (non-programming) work in Linux, but I can't start developing for it because I am too lazy to learn C++ when I can do a bloody good job in VB.
I think that it's great that Delphi(Object Pascal) is being ported to Linux -- how about an open-source version of a basic language so folks like me can start developing? With an open source Object Basic tool I would start porting my programs like crazy -- as would a million other VB programmers.
Before dismissing me completely, just consider that not everyone has to be a "programmer" to generate a lot of decent results in an Object Basic type langauge.
I would hope that Poe/Tyler would be more creative than simple letter replacement. I know that I came up with that one in grade school, so hopefully an intelligent person with an interest in cryptography would try to do a slightly better job than that! =)
A more light suggestion... maybe we should get D.net involved with this! =) I still have a few CPU cycles to spare!
Since it's just an ordinary glove, and they're being pretty generous, please don't screw them over.
Correct me if I'm wrong... but aren't they doing this primarily to head of a potentially costly lawsuit? A potential $80 Million (most of which will likely never get claimed) looks small compared with a huge class-action lawsuit which is known to bring about huge settlements.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying we should rush out and take advantage of them -- but it's not like this is done out of generosity.
Um, have you tried to install w98 recently? Sorry, pal. Linux is *MUCH* easier to install
Actually I have. Yes, it involves a lot of rebooting, but it can recognize most all hardware off the bat, and updates can be made easily through windowsupdate. Now Linux is a crap shoot because the distros are different (I've used RedHat 5.1, 6.0 and am currently using Corel Linux). On some machines, it has installed wonderfully (my last install of Corel Linux on a vanilla machine was incredibly smooth), but on others I had to download x servers (ever try to use Netscape in GNOME in 16 colors with 640x480?) for a Voodoo3, and the sound and winmodem cards don't function (it's not Linux's fault for bad software design, but its hard to explain to a user that they have to spend an extra $50+ for a modem so it works with linux). As for apps...
They're almost always available either in an rpm or a tarball.
True, usually they are. But I have spent hours trying to install a graphical telnet tool (ktelnet an knetmon) and neither came with.deb packages (.rpm files help when you have Red Hat) and it didn't work to alien them. And when I try to compile the source, it tells me I need the QT 1.30 libraries (which I have) so it won't finish. Now, I'm not a Linux expert by any means, but that seems like a lot of effort. Hopefully.RPMs will become more prevelant, and hopefully ALIEN will work for me one of these days. Until then I have to say that Windows has an edge from my perspective as a IT guy grown on Windows and is now moving to Linux. Don't get me wrong, I'm not giving up -- for some installations (like people who want only the net) I am now starting with Corel Linux.
Well, mounting is always done, even on Windows or MacOS systems -- it's just done behind the scenes. And some Linux distro's do the same thing. I use Corel Linux, and in their file manager, you click on the CD-ROM and it automatically mounts the drive and opens it up just like in other OS's. So you're right -- it's a good idea and I'm sure that other distros will catch on.
Compaq has st ated that they will begin selling a 1 Gig system before the end of this week as well -- HP will be starting next week. And in v.limited quantities too, I might add.
Linux is ready for the desktop already -- if there is a Linux expert available to set the bloody thing up. But for a some users, if you want web browsing over a lan: you can buy/dl Corel Linux, press "ok" and you got Netscape and the internet. For some people that is all you need. Me, I'm not a Linux expert and am still trying to figure out why I need to compile programs in order to get them to run, and searching for antiquated libraries to support the files... ARG! In windows you just double-click SETUP.EXE (and reboot, and reboot).
But for the end user -- it's all the same: MacOS, Windows, Linux: double-click on the Netscape icon and you got your Internet. So like I said, Linux is easy to use for end users, but they still need an expert to set the thing up for them.
Everybody knows that the big push for the Office team is to make a web-based client for the next version. This means that you will be able to access MS Office through any OS, not just Windows.
OF course, this will require that MS ports IE to Linux (quite similar to the UNIX Win32s port of IE4)-- but it makes sense in the long term if that is where they are going. If they can get everyone hooked on IE because you need it for Office -- they can charge for IE on non-MS platforms. This way, they can maintain their revenue stream even from non-Windows customers. They are businessmen, not stupid, folks.
It's EXTREMELY hard to do, because upgrades, maintenance, and even failures all have to be handled without the software going down.
Not to sound too uninformed -- but couldn't you simply have a cluster of machines and take one down in non-peak times to upgrade? I mean, how can you upgrade software without shutting it down at all? Doesn't seem possible to me!
Look at the variety of gaming that is done for PCs beyond what you said. You mentioned FPS and sports games -- but those are sold for the console markets too. Instead, look at the intense diversity of games we have: Sim-Games like SimCity, multi-player strategy games like C&C and Starcraft, massively multiplayer MUDs (graphical and text-based), simple but beautiful games like Deer Hunter, text-based games like NetHack (and its cousins), problem-solving games like Myst, and much more.
My point is: don't think there is no innovation in gaming because the top sellers are all FPS and sports games. People come out with new PC games every fricking day -- I am glad the platform is still around! (btw, I am looking forward to Daikatana when it comes out... very soon, check out the demo!)
Why would any member of this cartel break ranks and give me what I want, when I wouldn't be able to get it from any other vendor?
I don't know about that part -- you see big companies break from cartels all the time (look at the Venezuelan oil companies most of the time). I think that some vendors will be driven to sign non-UTICA contracts from free-market based principles. If not -- you're right that all-Open Source will be the only way to go for most any organization.
Dual Athlons [ BiAthlons =) ] won't be out for a while -- not until later this year (possibly until November, so the rumor goes). For once, I hope the rumor is false.
are they essentially just overclocked versions of earlier chips?Well, since they will not be using any Kryo-cooling technique on the chips, we have to assume that they are actually designed better. Otherwise why would Kryotech bother working on their cooling technology to get it to work if air-cooling did the same. Now, they might be slightly more overclocked than currently (perhaps the 1Ghz is a 900 overclocked or something) but for that, we'll have to wait until the chips come out for some good analysis.
That Jornada you were looking at was a Handheld PC
Yeah, you're right, I was referring to the Jornada HPC not their Palms-sized devices. I looked at those too but I figured thatPalmOS was better than Wince straight up -- and a Wince would have to offer more for me to consider it. The HPC version did that by offering MP3 playback and memos etc -- but at the expense of size.
My point again (more clarified this time): For me small enough to carry is the most important feature, everything else comes after. Other things like color, music, app compatibility, battery life, and voice support are secondary, but they also matter.
In the end, for me the Palm V won out because (Small + battery life + compatibility) > (MP3+voice+color) but small was the most important factor!
-- a screen big enough to read more than a paragraph at a time
I just bought a Palm V, and the biggest reason I went with the Palm instead of a Wince machine (the HP Jornada was my 2nd choice) was size of the PDA. The Jornada has a lot of sweet features (MP3 playback, color support, pocket word/excel, voice memo recording) but the bloody machine was too big. The same thing goes for the Newton and Messagepad -- I want something that I can easily carry around in my jacket pocet without it being intrusive or noticable. The Palm series (especially Palm V) are great for that -- even if you sacrifice color and features.
They claim that doing it electronically through links is different from what's been done before with sales commissions. Otherwise it would not be original and would not qualify for a patent
Now I was under the impression that a patent can't be granted if it's simply more specific than an existing patent: For example if I have a patent on selling a product, you can't get a patent for selling the same product in Florida, because it is overwritten by the first patent.
I would expect the same thing to happen with commision sales -- it doesn't matter where the commision sales take place, it's both prior art and extremely obvious.
Slashdot Mirror
I mean, come on; we're cloning pigs to harvest their organs. Doesn't this seem just a little creepy?
Why is that creepy? Because we've never done it before now? YAWN! Progress is about technological change, which can rapidly redefine what is "normal" and make new things seem "creepy" until it is an accepted part of culture.
BR Here's a question for you: say you desperately need a new kidney (or whatever) to survive, do you really care where it was grown, be it a test tube, a pig, or what? No, you need the organ -- so you take it. That's what these people are doing -- they are doing it to help save your lives -- and you have the nerve to call it "creepy". Next time say "thanks a lot" or "wow, you folks are sure smart" instead.
Does anyone stop to think that saying, "it discriminates against the poor" means "it discriminates against black people" makes the racist assumption that black people are poor?
Not an assumption -- a statistical fact. Obviously not all black people are poor -- that remark would be racist -- but disproportionably enough that people stop and look at the consequences. Personally, I agree with you -- internet polling != discrimination -- but it's still worth thinking about.
The real trick would be to avoid using E/Gnome
Yes, that's why I wrote: "is the question as to whether everything will run quickly under linux with gnome/E?" because that is the what many people (read: me)will want to run on their boxen. I am not certain as to how well it will run: I've run it with a P75 w/8Megs ram, 1Meg Video Ram (REALLY BAD NEWS... talking 3 hour bootup), and I've tried it with a more modern computers with decent success (a K6 200 with 48 megs, and a 4Meg Video card). But that particular configuration seems suspect: It might be okay -- but I really don't know for sure.
That's .180 Hertz! I guess "geeks" don't know their SI abbreviations, either that or this machine has a knife switch on the side that you toggle back and forth to run the CPU clock.
Oops... good call on that one! My fault, not theirs.
Well, I can think of a great reason: QNX is great for simple things, but many users want more! And Linux can provide this... take a gander at the browser FAQ page for the i-opener: It doesn't support Java, Real G2, Flash, or Acrobat. Linux provides all of these things and more: such as proper word processing, games, the list goes on an on. If you can get that for $99 I say "whoo hoo!" to that!
Of course, there is the question as to whether everything will run quickly under linux with gnome/E. The system seems to be on the low side of possible (180 mHz processor, 32 megs RAM, 2 megs Video RAM (from linux-hacker spec pages)) -- which means it will run, but it won't be what we are used to with desktop machines. But it's enough to want me to go check it out!
I like what I've seen of Xbasic from the page you've given there... it seems like a wonderful program (I'm going to dl it when I get to Linux box at home).
It's not object oriented (so far as I could tell) but it is open source and free (as in beer) and basic-based. I can at least use it for some applications. Thanks a ton, man.
A ObjectBasic environment on Linux might be nice. It probably wouldn't help port VB applications however -- too many Windowsism
Yeah, good point on that. Even so, I would still have a starting place to begin when developing. Its hard to switch programming conventions after 10+ years of a language -- I tried Delphi when it first came out but I lost interest eventually: it didn't have much additional to offer over VB and I would have to switch to new programming conventions (such as putting a ';' at the end of every line -- nuts for a VB programmer).
Of course, if Delphi comes out for Linux -- now they have an advantage and I might finally bite the bullet and switch over to a new language. I suppose it would be sort of like "growing up". =)
I am VB programmer... despite the bad publicity the language gets, I was born and raised on GW-Basic, and then moved to VB way back in the old Win16 days. Now, I'm doing more and more (non-programming) work in Linux, but I can't start developing for it because I am too lazy to learn C++ when I can do a bloody good job in VB.
I think that it's great that Delphi(Object Pascal) is being ported to Linux -- how about an open-source version of a basic language so folks like me can start developing? With an open source Object Basic tool I would start porting my programs like crazy -- as would a million other VB programmers.
Before dismissing me completely, just consider that not everyone has to be a "programmer" to generate a lot of decent results in an Object Basic type langauge.
Uou're kidding about d.net right?
Yeah, I was kidding. But you never know, it could be encoded using DES-III. That Poe fellow was ahead of his time! =)
I would hope that Poe/Tyler would be more creative than simple letter replacement. I know that I came up with that one in grade school, so hopefully an intelligent person with an interest in cryptography would try to do a slightly better job than that! =)
A more light suggestion... maybe we should get D.net involved with this! =) I still have a few CPU cycles to spare!
Since it's just an ordinary glove, and they're being pretty generous, please don't screw them over.
Correct me if I'm wrong... but aren't they doing this primarily to head of a potentially costly lawsuit? A potential $80 Million (most of which will likely never get claimed) looks small compared with a huge class-action lawsuit which is known to bring about huge settlements.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying we should rush out and take advantage of them -- but it's not like this is done out of generosity.
Um, have you tried to install w98 recently? Sorry, pal. Linux is *MUCH* easier to install
.deb packages (.rpm files help when you have Red Hat) and it didn't work to alien them. And when I try to compile the source, it tells me I need the QT 1.30 libraries (which I have) so it won't finish. Now, I'm not a Linux expert by any means, but that seems like a lot of effort. Hopefully .RPMs will become more prevelant, and hopefully ALIEN will work for me one of these days. Until then I have to say that Windows has an edge from my perspective as a IT guy grown on Windows and is now moving to Linux. Don't get me wrong, I'm not giving up -- for some installations (like people who want only the net) I am now starting with Corel Linux.
Actually I have. Yes, it involves a lot of rebooting, but it can recognize most all hardware off the bat, and updates can be made easily through windowsupdate. Now Linux is a crap shoot because the distros are different (I've used RedHat 5.1, 6.0 and am currently using Corel Linux). On some machines, it has installed wonderfully (my last install of Corel Linux on a vanilla machine was incredibly smooth), but on others I had to download x servers (ever try to use Netscape in GNOME in 16 colors with 640x480?) for a Voodoo3, and the sound and winmodem cards don't function (it's not Linux's fault for bad software design, but its hard to explain to a user that they have to spend an extra $50+ for a modem so it works with linux). As for apps...
They're almost always available either in an rpm or a tarball.
True, usually they are. But I have spent hours trying to install a graphical telnet tool (ktelnet an knetmon) and neither came with
Mounting seems just like an extra action.
Well, mounting is always done, even on Windows or MacOS systems -- it's just done behind the scenes. And some Linux distro's do the same thing. I use Corel Linux, and in their file manager, you click on the CD-ROM and it automatically mounts the drive and opens it up just like in other OS's. So you're right -- it's a good idea and I'm sure that other distros will catch on.
Compaq has st ated that they will begin selling a 1 Gig system before the end of this week as well -- HP will be starting next week. And in v.limited quantities too, I might add.
Linux is ready for the desktop already -- if there is a Linux expert available to set the bloody thing up. But for a some users, if you want web browsing over a lan: you can buy/dl Corel Linux, press "ok" and you got Netscape and the internet. For some people that is all you need. Me, I'm not a Linux expert and am still trying to figure out why I need to compile programs in order to get them to run, and searching for antiquated libraries to support the files... ARG! In windows you just double-click SETUP.EXE (and reboot, and reboot).
But for the end user -- it's all the same: MacOS, Windows, Linux: double-click on the Netscape icon and you got your Internet. So like I said, Linux is easy to use for end users, but they still need an expert to set the thing up for them.
Everybody knows that the big push for the Office team is to make a web-based client for the next version. This means that you will be able to access MS Office through any OS, not just Windows.
OF course, this will require that MS ports IE to Linux (quite similar to the UNIX Win32s port of IE4)-- but it makes sense in the long term if that is where they are going. If they can get everyone hooked on IE because you need it for Office -- they can charge for IE on non-MS platforms. This way, they can maintain their revenue stream even from non-Windows customers. They are businessmen, not stupid, folks.
It's EXTREMELY hard to do, because upgrades, maintenance, and even failures all have to be handled without the software going down.
Not to sound too uninformed -- but couldn't you simply have a cluster of machines and take one down in non-peak times to upgrade? I mean, how can you upgrade software without shutting it down at all? Doesn't seem possible to me!
Look at the variety of gaming that is done for PCs beyond what you said. You mentioned FPS and sports games -- but those are sold for the console markets too. Instead, look at the intense diversity of games we have: Sim-Games like SimCity, multi-player strategy games like C&C and Starcraft, massively multiplayer MUDs (graphical and text-based), simple but beautiful games like Deer Hunter, text-based games like NetHack (and its cousins), problem-solving games like Myst, and much more.
My point is: don't think there is no innovation in gaming because the top sellers are all FPS and sports games. People come out with new PC games every fricking day -- I am glad the platform is still around! (btw, I am looking forward to Daikatana when it comes out... very soon, check out the demo!)
Why would any member of this cartel break ranks and give me what I want, when I wouldn't be able to get it from any other vendor?
I don't know about that part -- you see big companies break from cartels all the time (look at the Venezuelan oil companies most of the time). I think that some vendors will be driven to sign non-UTICA contracts from free-market based principles. If not -- you're right that all-Open Source will be the only way to go for most any organization.
Dual Athlons [ BiAthlons =) ] won't be out for a while -- not until later this year (possibly until November, so the rumor goes). For once, I hope the rumor is false.
are they essentially just overclocked versions of earlier chips?Well, since they will not be using any Kryo-cooling technique on the chips, we have to assume that they are actually designed better. Otherwise why would Kryotech bother working on their cooling technology to get it to work if air-cooling did the same. Now, they might be slightly more overclocked than currently (perhaps the 1Ghz is a 900 overclocked or something) but for that, we'll have to wait until the chips come out for some good analysis.
I especially liked the use of the phrase "moderate-to-severe head-explodings"
Good job Mr. AC, I wish I had some mod points left!
That Jornada you were looking at was a Handheld PC
Yeah, you're right, I was referring to the Jornada HPC not their Palms-sized devices. I looked at those too but I figured thatPalmOS was better than Wince straight up -- and a Wince would have to offer more for me to consider it. The HPC version did that by offering MP3 playback and memos etc -- but at the expense of size.
My point again (more clarified this time): For me small enough to carry is the most important feature, everything else comes after. Other things like color, music, app compatibility, battery life, and voice support are secondary, but they also matter.
In the end, for me the Palm V won out because (Small + battery life + compatibility) > (MP3+voice+color) but small was the most important factor!
All of your ideas are good except one:
-- a screen big enough to read more than a paragraph at a time
I just bought a Palm V, and the biggest reason I went with the Palm instead of a Wince machine (the HP Jornada was my 2nd choice) was size of the PDA. The Jornada has a lot of sweet features (MP3 playback, color support, pocket word/excel, voice memo recording) but the bloody machine was too big. The same thing goes for the Newton and Messagepad -- I want something that I can easily carry around in my jacket pocet without it being intrusive or noticable. The Palm series (especially Palm V) are great for that -- even if you sacrifice color and features.
They claim that doing it electronically through links is different from what's been done before with sales commissions. Otherwise it would not be original and would not qualify for a patent
Now I was under the impression that a patent can't be granted if it's simply more specific than an existing patent: For example if I have a patent on selling a product, you can't get a patent for selling the same product in Florida, because it is overwritten by the first patent.
I would expect the same thing to happen with commision sales -- it doesn't matter where the commision sales take place, it's both prior art and extremely obvious.