Actually, a lot of pre-press editorial systems for newspapers and magazines do this sort of thing - the only difference is that their finsished work is not only internet output, but print stuff as well.
See the bottom part of the story in this Newspaper Association of America Technews story. Workflow is a fairly common element of any groupware-oriented intranet application, even for publshing industry.
So even if Zope doesn't do workflow managment natively, for example, it doesn't take much to track such data in ZClasses that one puts together in 10 minutes, combined with the WorldPilot product to create an entire intranet publishing workflow system.
Actually, Zope does do this. Zope has set up means for groupware applications: it's use of things like versions and transactional use of an object database to allow authoring and content management by multiple folks. Zope has:
Versioning (albeit somewhat crude builtin, but it can extended with ZClasses that keep prior instances of objects)
Authoring and Editing - builtin is a tightly configurable groupware system that alows the setup of users and roles for different aspects of content management. All things published in Zope have managment interfaces that allow for editing - ALL THINGS - THAT IS AUTHORING!
Zope is a content managment system, without any added sugar or third party code, thanks to its managment interface
This is why Zope is a content management system that demonstates prior art that would invalidate this patent. If you are going to make a claim, at least be able to back it up with explainations as to why it is (some data to back up your argument, and a warrant to explain why your data backs your claim)... Hell... Slashdot is a content management system of sorts (though it doesn't meet all the criteria)...
A crucial piece of the puzzle isn't just another relational database; the catch is full-text and field indexing everything, prefereably in a full-text XML format; there are not any full-text search engines that are open source that work outside of the scope of a standard web site; what is needed is more of a repository, where XML-based content is stored and automatically indexed, so that records of multiple types and/or XML DTDs can be stored in one searchable repository.
In short, Libraries need a car-catalog system built on a foundtation of a digital asset management system; something which I haven't found many foundations for in current OSS projects. Commercial examples of such a beast might include Folio Livepublish, which is an "infobase" indexing and search engine that creates "repositories" or document collections that are fielda nd full-text searchable; a lot of people uses this type of stuff for electronic publishing and for knowledge-managment apps. I've used LivePublish as a developer/integrator/OEM at my previous employer. I don't particulaly like LivePublish, because it is (in my mind) unstable (it's an NT app), and the company that makes it has a rather rediculous royalty-based revenue model, but the product has some good ideas (like collecting content of multiple types into one repository, filtering binary types like word docs and PDFs so that they too can get indexed, fielded XML searches within elements); I think an OSS equivalent to something like this would be a great option for those of us who like some ideas that come out of commercial development firms, but don't like the rancid business models, crazy prices, and poor support of such companies.
The only architecture that even comes close to provinding the means to so this sort of thing is Zope, but Zope doesn't currently have field-searchable XML indexing; when Zope gets it, given it's a strong persistent object system (not to mention its ease of use with RDBMS systems and clean multi-tier development), then it would be an ideal architecture for building a libary card catalog system on top of.
It would make sense if the next state research university looking to replace their library system would roll-their-own using open source tools, hiring CS students from their own University as part time engineers, saving money and creating jobs. This gets the ball rolling...
...And it gets the biggest libraries in our country (the ones at research Universities) the best possible system, or at least the roots for a comunity developed system.
Sean
Obviously, this is no category killer. However, just having the source open might be a good thing as a reference for others working on compiler projects, such as CS students or GCC hackers...
GPL would be nice (especially for those reasons listed above)... One can at least hope...
If not, it should be. From my perspective, it would be a lot easier to do custom kernel configs using XML-based description files; any administrator with perl and ngsmls could then write quick and dirty compile scripts to duplicate their module setup when upgrading to new kernels. Not only this, but it would allow for someone to do gtk and qt based gui configuration programs that would be much better than the tk based 'make xconfig.'
Why not? They could. the ultimate in an out-of-court settlement: stock swap! Not that I'm a fan of Disney (evil megaconglomerate mass-culture factory), but it seems like the logo is worth billions to them, they might as well buy out goto.com. And while they're at it they should also buy gogo.com gotohell.com and other valuable family-oriented portal domain names and sites...;)
Really, determine your needs. Break the problem down into smaller pieces. Think top down design. Remember that certain technologies work better for certain tasks.
Consider using a multi-tier infrastructure if you are interested in a quick dynamic site. Consider perl, PHP, and Zope, which are all great technologies. If you consider using Perl and Zope, you might want to consider using XML-RPC to get them to work together. This is what I am working with. Try, though, to design with the future in mind - if you design modularly, make sure that your site will grow with you and that you can replace certain components in your architecture as they start to not meet you needs. Sean
their web site wasn't descriptive enough with examples of what you could do when I clicked on the/. banner ad. Hmm... are they getting some promotional consideration here;)
I wonder why they think that somehow KDE is more "slick" or "easier to customize" than Gnome. My experience is that KDE is leaner, more efficient, and certainly less buggy than Gnome. Nonetheless, Gnome+E is my preferred user interface, because despite the instability and system requirements of Gnome, it is certainly inproving at an alarming rate, and the interface is EASILY more customizable, and perhaps more "slick" than KDE, which is, in fact best for newbies, for now. I'm really license agnostic; I like Gnome for its feature set, and it attempt to not make everything windows-esque. My $.02.
I have sense decided to let only "Dummies" renew their IDG subscriptions. I don't think I'll renew my company's InfoWorld subscription. (Like it's such a big loss to not have to read Bob Metcalfe OP/EDs!)
Some thoughts and a cite: Modest-Witness@Second-Millennium.FemaleMan-Meets-O ncoMouse : feminism and technoscience by Donna Haraway. This is a fascinating read if you are interested in science, technology, and critical theory (particularly Marxism and Feminism). Sean
This could happen, unfortunately. Science used for the public good is sacrificed in the name of profit. If anyone's seen the movie And the Band Played On about AIDS research, you might be aware of the actions of Dr. Robert Gallow (at least as he was portrayed in the film). He tried to get a patent on the discovery of the virus, which he stole data on from the French. He supposedly is working on a cure.
Anyway, the idea that something like DNA or basic math could be patented is silly. And even the most benign software patents reinforce a legal and corporate culture that makes other silly or dnagerous patents seem ok.
The implication of this is Companies like Unisys, with their LZW tyranny, actually set the stage for other companies to do even worse stuff (for example in public health), so if and when a patent squabble delays the cure for cancer or HIV, it makes sense to say the Unisys and like companies are in part responsible for some of the deaths caused by the delay!Bad Unisys. Bad! Killing is wrong, now go to your room!
There are several fundamental problems with the strong "the free market will self-regulate arguments" put forth by many on/.
First, if we are going to criticize M$, we might as well start criticising the Baby Bells and (expecially) AT&T for trying to put small business out of business. Consistency folks.
Here's my dilemma: I want broadband access. I want to use the cable pipes, but alas, I'd have to give up my local ISP, who have always been wonderful. I also have no way to get the several static IPs that I want for my home network. I can get that with DSL, but the catch is that because I have phone service with a small non-baby bell company, I can't get DSL access over the lines, even though it is technically possible. I'd have to get another phone line that I don't want from USWEST as well as my phone company just to get DSL, which COULD operate over my existing thrid party phone lines (because in my apartment building, the phone lines are leased to USWEST from my phone company). But that won't happen because there are no regulations that FORCE these companies to interoperate. It's not the little companies such as my local ISP or my smaller 3rd party phone company that are not cooperative, but the big companies who already have monopolies - they are going to be putting small businesses into bankruptcy and giving the consumer headaches. What is technically possible (innovation) is actually crushed by the free-market in favor of what is profitable for big biz, not the consumer.
Libertarians and some conservatives royally piss me off when they argue for a hands-off free market approach, because they often times end up screwing over the consumer, the undervalued employees of this world, the environment, etc.
I have an idea: if we are going to have the FCC not regulate, lets have the EPA and OSHA not regulate workplace toxins; let's also have the EEOC not regulate under Title VII of the Equal Rights act of 1963. While we are at it, let's allow gun-toting psychos with concealed weapons into churches and elemetary schools because they have permits. And to finish up our reign of terror, let's support the Microsoft lobbyists in the riteous quest to slash the DOJ antitrust budget.
My $.02 for right-wingers ignorant of any kind of political philosophy and applied ethics, Sean
Disclaimer: I work for a subsidiary of one of those evil large telecom companies
I'm getting 210 kilobytes/sec. on metalab, downloading to a machine on a network with dual T1s. This of course, is at 5:30 EST on Sunday, which isn't exactly prime usage time for metalab.
Unrelated Question: I didn't get a chance to play around with lorax - Did RedHat fix that annoying kernel compile issue with SMBFS (Win95 bug workaround should be turned OFF!)? I don't want to have to recompile the kernel one more time just because of RedHat's inability to realize that enabling the workaround did more harm than good! I assumed originally that 6.0 would be compiled without the option enabled, as dictated by both rules of common sense and "cover-your-ass by putting out non-volitile stuff and let the users customize the experiemental stuff." Anyone know if they've addressed this, or do I have to do another recompile on a slow P100.
Slashdot Mirror
See the bottom part of the story in this Newspaper Association of America Technews story. Workflow is a fairly common element of any groupware-oriented intranet application, even for publshing industry.
So even if Zope doesn't do workflow managment natively, for example, it doesn't take much to track such data in ZClasses that one puts together in 10 minutes, combined with the WorldPilot product to create an entire intranet publishing workflow system.
- Versioning (albeit somewhat crude builtin, but it can extended with ZClasses that keep prior instances of objects)
- Authoring and Editing - builtin is a tightly configurable groupware system that alows the setup of users and roles for different aspects of content management. All things published in Zope have managment interfaces that allow for editing - ALL THINGS - THAT IS AUTHORING!
- Zope is a content managment system, without any added sugar or third party code, thanks to its managment interface
This is why Zope is a content management system that demonstates prior art that would invalidate this patent . If you are going to make a claim, at least be able to back it up with explainations as to why it is (some data to back up your argument, and a warrant to explain why your data backs your claim)... Hell... Slashdot is a content management system of sorts (though it doesn't meet all the criteria)...A crucial piece of the puzzle isn't just another relational database; the catch is full-text and field indexing everything, prefereably in a full-text XML format; there are not any full-text search engines that are open source that work outside of the scope of a standard web site; what is needed is more of a repository, where XML-based content is stored and automatically indexed, so that records of multiple types and/or XML DTDs can be stored in one searchable repository.
In short, Libraries need a car-catalog system built on a foundtation of a digital asset management system; something which I haven't found many foundations for in current OSS projects. Commercial examples of such a beast might include Folio Livepublish, which is an "infobase" indexing and search engine that creates "repositories" or document collections that are fielda nd full-text searchable; a lot of people uses this type of stuff for electronic publishing and for knowledge-managment apps. I've used LivePublish as a developer/integrator/OEM at my previous employer. I don't particulaly like LivePublish, because it is (in my mind) unstable (it's an NT app), and the company that makes it has a rather rediculous royalty-based revenue model, but the product has some good ideas (like collecting content of multiple types into one repository, filtering binary types like word docs and PDFs so that they too can get indexed, fielded XML searches within elements); I think an OSS equivalent to something like this would be a great option for those of us who like some ideas that come out of commercial development firms, but don't like the rancid business models, crazy prices, and poor support of such companies.
The only architecture that even comes close to provinding the means to so this sort of thing is Zope, but Zope doesn't currently have field-searchable XML indexing; when Zope gets it, given it's a strong persistent object system (not to mention its ease of use with RDBMS systems and clean multi-tier development), then it would be an ideal architecture for building a libary card catalog system on top of.
It would make sense if the next state research university looking to replace their library system would roll-their-own using open source tools, hiring CS students from their own University as part time engineers, saving money and creating jobs. This gets the ball rolling...
...And it gets the biggest libraries in our country (the ones at research Universities) the best possible system, or at least the roots for a comunity developed system.
Sean
Obviously, this is no category killer. However, just having the source open might be a good thing as a reference for others working on compiler projects, such as CS students or GCC hackers...
GPL would be nice (especially for those reasons listed above)... One can at least hope...
If not, it should be. From my perspective, it would be a lot easier to do custom kernel configs using XML-based description files; any administrator with perl and ngsmls could then write quick and dirty compile scripts to duplicate their module setup when upgrading to new kernels. Not only this, but it would allow for someone to do gtk and qt based gui configuration programs that would be much better than the tk based 'make xconfig.'
Just a thought...
Sean
Why not? They could. the ultimate in an out-of-court settlement: stock swap! Not that I'm a fan of Disney (evil megaconglomerate mass-culture factory), but it seems like the logo is worth billions to them, they might as well buy out goto.com. And while they're at it they should also buy gogo.com gotohell.com and other valuable family-oriented portal domain names and sites... ;)
Really, determine your needs. Break the problem down into smaller pieces. Think top down design. Remember that certain technologies work better for certain tasks.
Consider using a multi-tier infrastructure if you are interested in a quick dynamic site. Consider perl, PHP, and Zope, which are all great technologies. If you consider using Perl and Zope, you might want to consider using XML-RPC to get them to work together. This is what I am working with. Try, though, to design with the future in mind - if you design modularly, make sure that your site will grow with you and that you can replace certain components in your architecture as they start to not meet you needs. Sean
their web site wasn't descriptive enough with examples of what you could do when I clicked on the /. banner ad. Hmm... are they getting some promotional consideration here ;)
Hope it is really Open/Free "Open Source." Sean
I wonder why they think that somehow KDE is more "slick" or "easier to customize" than Gnome. My experience is that KDE is leaner, more efficient, and certainly less buggy than Gnome. Nonetheless, Gnome+E is my preferred user interface, because despite the instability and system requirements of Gnome, it is certainly inproving at an alarming rate, and the interface is EASILY more customizable, and perhaps more "slick" than KDE, which is, in fact best for newbies, for now. I'm really license agnostic; I like Gnome for its feature set, and it attempt to not make everything windows-esque. My $.02.
Idiots who love dummies who love lawyers who sue dummies...on the next Jenny Jones
I have sense decided to let only "Dummies" renew their IDG subscriptions. I don't think I'll renew my company's InfoWorld subscription. (Like it's such a big loss to not have to read Bob Metcalfe OP/EDs!)
Oh, also there are some good critiques of intellectual property concepts from Linguistic/Marxist/Feminist perspectives on oppression, the the notion of intellectual property and that symbols such as TM and © are situated as oppressive constructs that are symbolically tied to oppression of women through notions of a master/slave (author/reader) dialectic.
Some thoughts and a cite: Modest-Witness@Second-Millennium.FemaleMan-Meets-O ncoMouse : feminism and technoscience by Donna Haraway. This is a fascinating read if you are interested in science, technology, and critical theory (particularly Marxism and Feminism). Sean
This could happen, unfortunately. Science used for the public good is sacrificed in the name of profit. If anyone's seen the movie And the Band Played On about AIDS research, you might be aware of the actions of Dr. Robert Gallow (at least as he was portrayed in the film). He tried to get a patent on the discovery of the virus, which he stole data on from the French. He supposedly is working on a cure.
Anyway, the idea that something like DNA or basic math could be patented is silly. And even the most benign software patents reinforce a legal and corporate culture that makes other silly or dnagerous patents seem ok.
The implication of this is Companies like Unisys, with their LZW tyranny, actually set the stage for other companies to do even worse stuff (for example in public health), so if and when a patent squabble delays the cure for cancer or HIV, it makes sense to say the Unisys and like companies are in part responsible for some of the deaths caused by the delay! Bad Unisys. Bad! Killing is wrong, now go to your room!
There are several fundamental problems with the strong "the free market will self-regulate arguments" put forth by many on /.
First, if we are going to criticize M$, we might as well start criticising the Baby Bells and (expecially) AT&T for trying to put small business out of business. Consistency folks.
Here's my dilemma: I want broadband access. I want to use the cable pipes, but alas, I'd have to give up my local ISP, who have always been wonderful. I also have no way to get the several static IPs that I want for my home network. I can get that with DSL, but the catch is that because I have phone service with a small non-baby bell company, I can't get DSL access over the lines, even though it is technically possible. I'd have to get another phone line that I don't want from USWEST as well as my phone company just to get DSL, which COULD operate over my existing thrid party phone lines (because in my apartment building, the phone lines are leased to USWEST from my phone company). But that won't happen because there are no regulations that FORCE these companies to interoperate. It's not the little companies such as my local ISP or my smaller 3rd party phone company that are not cooperative, but the big companies who already have monopolies - they are going to be putting small businesses into bankruptcy and giving the consumer headaches. What is technically possible (innovation) is actually crushed by the free-market in favor of what is profitable for big biz, not the consumer.
Libertarians and some conservatives royally piss me off when they argue for a hands-off free market approach, because they often times end up screwing over the consumer, the undervalued employees of this world, the environment, etc.
I have an idea: if we are going to have the FCC not regulate, lets have the EPA and OSHA not regulate workplace toxins; let's also have the EEOC not regulate under Title VII of the Equal Rights act of 1963. While we are at it, let's allow gun-toting psychos with concealed weapons into churches and elemetary schools because they have permits. And to finish up our reign of terror, let's support the Microsoft lobbyists in the riteous quest to slash the DOJ antitrust budget.
My $.02 for right-wingers ignorant of any kind of political philosophy and applied ethics, Sean
Disclaimer: I work for a subsidiary of one of those evil large telecom companies
I'm getting 210 kilobytes/sec. on metalab, downloading to a machine on a network with dual T1s. This of course, is at 5:30 EST on Sunday, which isn't exactly prime usage time for metalab.
Click Here
Unrelated Question: I didn't get a chance to play around with lorax - Did RedHat fix that annoying kernel compile issue with SMBFS (Win95 bug workaround should be turned OFF!)? I don't want to have to recompile the kernel one more time just because of RedHat's inability to realize that enabling the workaround did more harm than good! I assumed originally that 6.0 would be compiled without the option enabled, as dictated by both rules of common sense and "cover-your-ass by putting out non-volitile stuff and let the users customize the experiemental stuff." Anyone know if they've addressed this, or do I have to do another recompile on a slow P100.
Sean