Was there any bit of responsible disclosure, because it sounds a bit like "killing the messenger". While there may be discipline in order, this seems to be overkill if he was really intending to do the right thing.
I think absolutely no discipline should be forthcoming.
Every time people like him speak up, they are shouted down with cries of "why hasn't it happened yet?" and "that's just some unlikely hypothetical!"
You have to provide real proof of concept or it just doesn't sink in for these corporate/bureaucratic types who are out to guard their little fiefdoms at all cost.
and people choking off huge, key portions of people's legislative agendas under this mentality are the reason why our government sucks so horribly right now.
You'd agree an open, punctured can of used fast food grease is disgusting and horrible on its own. When it's the central fuel source of a well designed machine it's amazing though. People like you take issue with the machine, and pair away provisions until there's nothing left but the punctured vat of grease.
What you are advocating is the complete overhaul of our entire monetary system, and the establishment of a second tier of currency which is worth LESS because it is marked as "debt based" and cannot be re-circulated.
People don't take out loans so they can look at the pretty bills and coins, they do so to pay other people. Those other people will refuse to take money they cannot deposit in their own accounts.
The very idea of creating money which cannot be re-circulated reminds me of the RIAA's pursuit of music which cannot be copied.
and Time/Warner/AOL/Turner House of Pancakes running MTV are looney ultra-left-wing Liberals working for Hollywood and Record Companies who bribe them to play the same 12 videos over and over again each day to promote their sales
please stop using a legitimate political outlook as an epithet.
Every "liberal" i've seen worth his salt has been anti-big-business and anti-authoritarian. The extreme of this is the canadian NDP, which advocates fully legal filesharing and legalized marijuana.
This channel spews so much vulgar garbage and stupidity that I don't even have it programmed on the channel list to prevent it lowering my IQ if I should happen to pause while channel surfing.
I'm just double checking, you were talking about cspan here right?
Actually, I saw a "clean" version of the Matrix in the US. They remove all of the swear words and references to god etc.
Excellent. Can they also remove references to "the matrix"?
I recall an excellent line by kevin murphy from rifftrax morpheus: "as long as the matrix exists, humanity can never be free" murphy: "you heard the man, everyone get your matrix dvd's and burn them immediately!"
then of course there's the instinctive drive to get it on. Let me know when watching violence gives you the irresistible urge to pump a few rounds into the nearest person.
Civil contempt must be remedial; if it is not remedial it is punitive; if it punitive, then the accused gets the full panoply of criminal due process.
so this is why I saw a law and order ep where a man was imprisoned for 17 years for "contempt of court" in a divorce proceeding regarding assets he claimed never to have.
I've been reading the comments and metamoderating on this thread. Fully 50% of the stuff here is wholly ignorant, and another 45% is doctrinaire horse manure being peddled by one of the two major party candidates or LOLbertarians. All I can say is: This is a serious discussion?! We're in a lot worse shape than I thought.
Welcome, my friend, to the open and visible failure of democracy. Those with an agenda have discovered they need only sow false controversy with a few pseudo-scientific think tanks. Convince enough people without the time to actually dig, or repeat an emotionally evocative catchphrase long enough and they'll defend, tooth and nail, your efforts to rob them blind.
Pop a coke or a good bottle of merlot and sit back, because there are no lifeboats for this one, unfortunately.
P.S. My favorite one so far is the "fractional reserve lending" kick. I've been digging on it and it appears to be rooted in neo-nazi online propaganda blaming jews for everyone's debt problems.
I'm sorry, but the fair tax benefits the wealthy at the expense of the lower income spectrum.
Specifically, the higher your income, the less you spend proportionally.
This means the poorest people, who often take out loans to get by, or worse, get the shaft.
The wealthy not only spend very little occasionally on high quality goods, then invest the rest, rolling it over to pay their non-tangible services, but can send agents across the borders to canada/mexico/wherever to make their purchases.
The only thing "fair" about the fair tax is how much more money the wealthy get to keep.
Sony wants to open the platform to devs though, and it appears they're looking to do it with minimal costs.
release a lockdown nuker, and the problem is solved. Those who wish to develop for the machine can crack it open with the offical sony redi-box(R) kit, and away they go.
It doesn't really benefit anyone if 80% of the country has guaranteed (overpaid) work, but loses 60% of their income to pay for the 20% who can't get jobs.
I disagree.
You don't have people clinging to employers in those nations for health care. The people with overpaid work get overpaid, this means they don't notice the taxes. The 20% who can't get jobs actually receive real rather than inadequatee and merely symolic social assistance, and are able to maintain a truly first world standard of living as they seek out new employment.
I think this is very preferable to low job security, low pay, increasing offshoring, and the assurance that you will lose all medical care if you are laid off, and have a high chance of spending 80 hours a week on two separate jobs to simply pay your bills... until you fall ill from exhaustion and go to the emergency room.. where the 80% pay the medical expenses of the 20%, in addition to the taxes toward the 'symbolic but ineffective' safety net programs.
Hmm.. seems to me like europeans have a system which is more efficient given its goals, and ours results in equal to greater financial burden on the employed with none of the benefits to those who are unemployed or severely underemployed. Further, the american system has even more rampant offshoring than the european one.
Enough with this fractional reserve banking as a conspiracy crap.
Banking has ALWAYS worked on a fractional reserve system. It's how banks have worked since before they were called banks.
The economy worked fine on this system long before the US was founded, long before fiat currency, when currency was actually made of pressed gold coins. There is no great artificial construct, there is no horrible crash waiting to happen. This system is proven over centuries upon centuries of human history.
Further, the reforms made after the depression was to put regulations in place to reign in the risks involved. They worked until important ones were rolled back, and this crap happened.
Hmmm. Greenspan, Bernanke, Raines, et al are educated economists. They were wrong.
damn right they were, and greenspan even admitted it to congress!
part of the problem is Government intrusion into the market.
No, this is what they were wrong about. They insisted on government butting out, led legislative charges to roll back regulation after regulation, including a few which were put in place right after black tuesday to prevent financial malfeasance which led to 30% unemployment!
. The market was correcting the excesses and the government intrusion, then the government stepped in and mucked with it more.
This is true, but the pressure for profits and peoples' unmitigated greed will override their capacity to learn from mistakes. We almost repeated the depression here, and allowing this "correction" to take the same toll the one in the early 30's did will not prevent the one in late 2108. Government regulations get put in place for a reason, and extremist libertarians like you need to learn this (but not at OUR expense, go buy an island somewhere).
Exactly. As someone wise once said, "The best government is that which governs least." I'd much prefer gridlock to one party having control of everything, regardless of which party it is. The people who cry "BUT NOTHING WILL GET DONE" miss the entire point. The less government does, the better.
Excellent!
Let's not fix any of the horrible abrogations of people's financial, civil, and consumer rights the unitary (zomg wingnut) republican government put into place.
Actually, all skeptical scientific looks at the market get shut down.
If you want to work in the financial business, then everything goes through PR or you loose your job.
No, not a conspiracy, and yes I am actually expecting that to change in the next couple of years.
Once we can get open scientific studies I think we will find some interesting things.
I am an academic economist and this is the opposite of what I have observed. Pretty much all interesting work in the last 50 years has been looking at when markets break down and fail to provide a surplus maximizing outcome.
From what i've seen, the top 5 have been infiltrated through manipulation by the wealthy and powerful for their own political agenda . For instance, the harvard business school has taught a curriculum of anarcho-capitalist extremism for quite some time.
There is a difference between knowing how the economy works and accurately predicting what the economy will do.
Exactly. It's GP's point of view which results in everyone playing "arm chair economist" and dismissing the analysis of people actually degreed in the field.
I recently had this discussion with someone, who insisted upon treating economics like a religion because wealthy interest groups like to perpetuate this idea, lest economists gain enough credibility to mobilize the public against their ponzi schemes.
Back in the day, you had some rational points. Now you're just spewing utter crap from the right wing echo chamber. There are plenty of posts correcting that garbage.
It was the private sector, and the lack of government intervention to restrain excessively risky behavior, which caused this crisis.
You do realize, of course, that the reason for the whole economic mess was a lack of proper (note I said proper, not less or more) regulation on lending practices, derivatives, and structure to prevent excessive risk, over-leveraging, and conflicts of interest.
one particular regulation repealed which sticks out in my mind was a portion of the glass steagall act, which was put in place immediately after the great depression began.
Slashdot Mirror
Was there any bit of responsible disclosure, because it sounds a bit like "killing the messenger". While there may be discipline in order, this seems to be overkill if he was really intending to do the right thing.
I think absolutely no discipline should be forthcoming.
Every time people like him speak up, they are shouted down with cries of "why hasn't it happened yet?" and "that's just some unlikely hypothetical!"
You have to provide real proof of concept or it just doesn't sink in for these corporate/bureaucratic types who are out to guard their little fiefdoms at all cost.
and people choking off huge, key portions of people's legislative agendas under this mentality are the reason why our government sucks so horribly right now.
You'd agree an open, punctured can of used fast food grease is disgusting and horrible on its own. When it's the central fuel source of a well designed machine it's amazing though. People like you take issue with the machine, and pair away provisions until there's nothing left but the punctured vat of grease.
What you are advocating is the complete overhaul of our entire monetary system, and the establishment of a second tier of currency which is worth LESS because it is marked as "debt based" and cannot be re-circulated.
People don't take out loans so they can look at the pretty bills and coins, they do so to pay other people. Those other people will refuse to take money they cannot deposit in their own accounts.
The very idea of creating money which cannot be re-circulated reminds me of the RIAA's pursuit of music which cannot be copied.
and Time/Warner/AOL/Turner House of Pancakes running MTV are looney ultra-left-wing Liberals working for Hollywood and Record Companies who bribe them to play the same 12 videos over and over again each day to promote their sales
please stop using a legitimate political outlook as an epithet.
Every "liberal" i've seen worth his salt has been anti-big-business and anti-authoritarian.
The extreme of this is the canadian NDP, which advocates fully legal filesharing and legalized marijuana.
This channel spews so much vulgar garbage and stupidity that I don't even have it programmed on the channel list to prevent it lowering my IQ if I should happen to pause while channel surfing.
I'm just double checking, you were talking about cspan here right?
Actually, I saw a "clean" version of the Matrix in the US. They remove all of the swear words and references to god etc.
Excellent. Can they also remove references to "the matrix"?
I recall an excellent line by kevin murphy from rifftrax
morpheus: "as long as the matrix exists, humanity can never be free"
murphy: "you heard the man, everyone get your matrix dvd's and burn them immediately!"
then of course there's the instinctive drive to get it on. Let me know when watching violence gives you the irresistible urge to pump a few rounds into the nearest person.
Civil contempt must be remedial; if it is not remedial it is punitive; if it punitive, then the accused gets the full panoply of criminal due process.
so this is why I saw a law and order ep where a man was imprisoned for 17 years for "contempt of court" in a divorce proceeding regarding assets he claimed never to have.
You have to be drunk to understand copyright law.
You must be very, very drunk then : )
There are many-a small rural town which can build mansions for each citizen on the revenues from those 55-15-55 speed traps
Let's track this against the wealth gap as it grew in the US, specifically the % of the wealth controlled by this bracket.
I think you'd see a decreasing real tax rate there.
I've been reading the comments and metamoderating on this thread. Fully 50% of the stuff here is wholly ignorant, and another 45% is doctrinaire horse manure being peddled by one of the two major party candidates or LOLbertarians. All I can say is: This is a serious discussion?! We're in a lot worse shape than I thought.
Welcome, my friend, to the open and visible failure of democracy. Those with an agenda have discovered they need only sow false controversy with a few pseudo-scientific think tanks. Convince enough people without the time to actually dig, or repeat an emotionally evocative catchphrase long enough and they'll defend, tooth and nail, your efforts to rob them blind.
Pop a coke or a good bottle of merlot and sit back, because there are no lifeboats for this one, unfortunately.
P.S. My favorite one so far is the "fractional reserve lending" kick. I've been digging on it and it appears to be rooted in neo-nazi online propaganda blaming jews for everyone's debt problems.
I'm sorry, but the fair tax benefits the wealthy at the expense of the lower income spectrum.
Specifically, the higher your income, the less you spend proportionally.
This means the poorest people, who often take out loans to get by, or worse, get the shaft.
The wealthy not only spend very little occasionally on high quality goods, then invest the rest, rolling it over to pay their non-tangible services, but can send agents across the borders to canada/mexico/wherever to make their purchases.
The only thing "fair" about the fair tax is how much more money the wealthy get to keep.
Sony wants to open the platform to devs though, and it appears they're looking to do it with minimal costs.
release a lockdown nuker, and the problem is solved. Those who wish to develop for the machine can crack it open with the offical sony redi-box(R) kit, and away they go.
Hit this guy with the +1 stick a few times already. he has a clue!
It doesn't really benefit anyone if 80% of the country has guaranteed (overpaid) work, but loses 60% of their income to pay for the 20% who can't get jobs.
I disagree.
You don't have people clinging to employers in those nations for health care. The people with overpaid work get overpaid, this means they don't notice the taxes. The 20% who can't get jobs actually receive real rather than inadequatee and merely symolic social assistance, and are able to maintain a truly first world standard of living as they seek out new employment.
I think this is very preferable to low job security, low pay, increasing offshoring, and the assurance that you will lose all medical care if you are laid off, and have a high chance of spending 80 hours a week on two separate jobs to simply pay your bills... until you fall ill from exhaustion and go to the emergency room.. where the 80% pay the medical expenses of the 20%, in addition to the taxes toward the 'symbolic but ineffective' safety net programs.
Hmm.. seems to me like europeans have a system which is more efficient given its goals, and ours results in equal to greater financial burden on the employed with none of the benefits to those who are unemployed or severely underemployed. Further, the american system has even more rampant offshoring than the european one.
Enough with this fractional reserve banking as a conspiracy crap.
Banking has ALWAYS worked on a fractional reserve system. It's how banks have worked since before they were called banks.
The economy worked fine on this system long before the US was founded, long before fiat currency, when currency was actually made of pressed gold coins. There is no great artificial construct, there is no horrible crash waiting to happen. This system is proven over centuries upon centuries of human history.
Further, the reforms made after the depression was to put regulations in place to reign in the risks involved. They worked until important ones were rolled back, and this crap happened.
Hmmm. Greenspan, Bernanke, Raines, et al are educated economists. They were wrong.
damn right they were, and greenspan even admitted it to congress!
part of the problem is Government intrusion into the market.
No, this is what they were wrong about. They insisted on government butting out, led legislative charges to roll back regulation after regulation, including a few which were put in place right after black tuesday to prevent financial malfeasance which led to 30% unemployment!
. The market was correcting the excesses and the government intrusion, then the government stepped in and mucked with it more.
This is true, but the pressure for profits and peoples' unmitigated greed will override their capacity to learn from mistakes. We almost repeated the depression here, and allowing this "correction" to take the same toll the one in the early 30's did will not prevent the one in late 2108.
Government regulations get put in place for a reason, and extremist libertarians like you need to learn this (but not at OUR expense, go buy an island somewhere).
Exactly. As someone wise once said, "The best government is that which governs least." I'd much prefer gridlock to one party having control of everything, regardless of which party it is. The people who cry "BUT NOTHING WILL GET DONE" miss the entire point. The less government does, the better.
Excellent!
Let's not fix any of the horrible abrogations of people's financial, civil, and consumer rights the unitary (zomg wingnut) republican government put into place.
Switching which party is in charge won't improve things; forcing the parties to compromise might. If nothing else it will slow them down.
Not switching which party is in charge will improve things less.
Additionally, denying democrats a large enough majority to correct bush's blunders will result in a ratcheting effect. Bad laws with no reforms.
Actually, all skeptical scientific looks at the market get shut down.
If you want to work in the financial business, then everything goes through PR or you loose your job.
No, not a conspiracy, and yes I am actually expecting that to change in the next couple of years.
Once we can get open scientific studies I think we will find some interesting things.
I am an academic economist and this is the opposite of what I have observed. Pretty much all interesting work in the last 50 years has been looking at when markets break down and fail to provide a surplus maximizing outcome.
From what i've seen, the top 5 have been infiltrated through manipulation by the wealthy and powerful for their own political agenda . For instance, the harvard business school has taught a curriculum of anarcho-capitalist extremism for quite some time.
one more to add:
unless the company is a startup, supply will always follow demand.
(supply side economics doesn't work because of this)
No one understands how the economy really works. Economists call that the Efficient Market Hypothesis.
There is a difference between knowing how the economy works and accurately predicting what the economy will do.
Exactly. It's GP's point of view which results in everyone playing "arm chair economist" and dismissing the analysis of people actually degreed in the field.
I recently had this discussion with someone, who insisted upon treating economics like a religion because wealthy interest groups like to perpetuate this idea, lest economists gain enough credibility to mobilize the public against their ponzi schemes.
Wow scentcone.
Back in the day, you had some rational points. Now you're just spewing utter crap from the right wing echo chamber. There are plenty of posts correcting that garbage.
It was the private sector, and the lack of government intervention to restrain excessively risky behavior, which caused this crisis.
fannie and freddie had nothing to do with it.
You do realize, of course, that the reason for the whole economic mess was a lack of proper (note I said proper, not less or more) regulation on lending practices, derivatives, and structure to prevent excessive risk, over-leveraging, and conflicts of interest.
one particular regulation repealed which sticks out in my mind was a portion of the glass steagall act, which was put in place immediately after the great depression began.