iPhone's are not in demand? What reality are you living in? Have you seen Apple's quarterly statements?
The reality where Apple have low demand for a massive mobile phone that is localised to the US and UK due to carriers wanting to lock customers into long contracts...and even in those places its outsold by Android, but to answer your questions I do read there financial statements.:)
Right because the best measure if how well the iPhone is doing is by looking at Amazon's website. Last time I checked, Apple has its own stores and sell them through carriers.
I'm sorry perhaps Its a pit complicated for you to understand why I would choose the 3 most popular phones on a list when looking at average. If its too complicated for you I will show you the maths.
In fact the inclusion of the high priced Samsung galaxy III implies that price in not the only reason for the absolute failure of the iPhone.
Considering the iPhone is both available for Amazon though the link I gave you and unsurprisingly available through the Apple Chine website, pretending that the iPhone is has supply issues is farcical...its simply unwanted.
Again your statements do not represent any facts which is why you cannot link to any supporting information.
Wow I think you have every cliche in there. Lets be honest Android market share is significantly higher everywhere, including the US and Europe and the Gap between them is getting worse. Android developer hirings have been higher than those for iOS for sometime and again that gap is increasing [regardless of what you think in your fantasy job].
Ironically pretending that Android is somehow inferior to iOS its farcical, or that its somehow buggy, is simply wishful thinking because you paid such a massive mark-up for your device, Ironically the "race to the bottom"...or capitalism, is great for consumers and the Chinese are having a smartphone experience better than yours for a fraction of the cost.
FYI Apple makes most of its money overcharging for its electronics, but it does make 30% on all content too, thank goodness its cartel was blocked and the rest of us can enjoy competitive pricing...or as you would say "race to the bottom"
No I am saying that people buy what they can afford. Not all Chinese can afford the 1300 yuan devices.if 1300 is the average then there are phones that are far cheaper. These cheaper phones won't have comparable features.
A quick look at the best selling Android phones on Amazon china http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.cn%2F show the three most popular Android devices to be ZTE U930 at 926 yuan; Huawei Ascend G330C and 966 yuan; and Samsun Gaxaxy III at 3,729 yuan, which is what you would expect for an average of 1300. The under 1000 phones, both come with dual-core processors 4.0 and 4.3 inch IPS creens and Ice cream sandwich...I assume you are familiar with the SIII:)
I find it astonishing that you have tried to refute my posts without one single shed of evidence that backs your fairytale view of china. When the internet makes it so simple to check facts. Please don't continue to shame yourself, and do the modicum of research first.
Yes but their market cap is still more than 2x Google's.
Of course shareholders were happier when the price was $700, but that doesn't change the point that companies don't aim to eventually dominate the market, they aim to maximize shareholder value.
I think you need to stop posting, because I don't think you understand. Market Cap[italization] is simply shares outstanding x share value. If the share drops the market Caps drops too. Right now Apple shares are in freefall so is there Market Cap.
If you want to compare the iPhone to Android by pretending that its Apple [A multiple electronics company] vs Google [Controls one Android Phone subsidiary, the OS, An Online Store...and a phone brand] market cap knock yourself out, personally I think its crackers, but like I say Apple shares and therefore its capitalisation is in freefall.
No I don't. I just don't live in the land of unicorns. The link is from the offical Apple site where to buy the iphone in china....Link No1 is Apple Online Store:) The Nexus devices sell out; not so much the iDevices.
Android is replacing Symbian, not iPhone. Really, look at the numbers. In China, people wish for an iPhone, but settle for an Android. That could hurt them eventually, but not now.
Your absolutely right Apple was never a success in China. Its simply more of failure now. Can we stop the bullshit that people wish for an iPhone, people are choosing Android over Apple worldwide at 5:1, with 70% of sales vs Apples 15%. Apple simply is irrelevant to the smartphone market.
The purpose of a company is to make money for its shareholders, and Apple's market cap is more than double Google's, so I think they are doing their job fine.
Apples Market Cap has taken a bit of a beating itself on the back of a whole host of bad news. Share Price Down from $700 to 530. Guess those shareholders are a little unhappy. Perhaps they are not doing such a good job:)
Ignoring your hilarious and possibly racist argument that Chinese people are stupid and buy old designed phones over the new ones...
Because you are implying that the Chinese are so stupid they would buy a "Nexus one" over a "Lenovo P770" FYI Lenovo has now overtaken Nokia to be 9th largest manufacture of phones worldwide.
Again as your posting in two threads "Lenovo P770 which is around 1300 yuan has a 4.5"display with qHD resolution, a 8 mega-pixel rear camera; 12Mhz dual core processor, 1GB of RAM and Android 4.1.1 and a 3300MAh!?"
Only Apple sell old phones to fill out its product line the rest of the market have to update their product lines.
A phone using such a design could be manufactured and sold for far less than 1293 yuan. Something like a Nexus One with Android 2.1 rather than a Nexus 4 running Android 4.2.
Lenovo P770 which is around 1300 yuan has a 4.5"display with qHD resolution, a 8 mega-pixel rear camera; 12Hhx dual core processor, 1GB of RAM and Android 4.1.1 and a 3300MAh!? camera
No Google took the high ground in China, as its computers were hacked and they demanded too much control [User Information] The reality is though the iphone even worldwide is being outsold 5:1 by Android its just just a bigger failure in China being outsold 21:1
Unless Android and iPhone have somewhat comparable supply and demand the stats are not truly indicating consumer preference.
Ignoring your hilarious and possibly racist argument that Chinese people are stupid and buy old designed phones over the new ones, while at the same time not understanding that 1393 yuan average is the reality...and represents 51% of the phone market...that is what they are paying.
The reality is Android phones are in demand...iPhone not so much, consumers pretty much decide with their money, and that is not going to Apple.
Its exactly a failure in China, Android is outselling Apple 21:1 however you spin it. These are not people tied into 2 year contacts.
As for you comparing McDonalds to "Android" shame on you. These are on average 1393 yuan phones for that price you get measurably better hardware, and arguably better software. Its more popular because its *better value* not *cheaper* which is why Android share is increased to 90.1% and Apples has dropped to 4.2%. Maybe Apple should lose some of that ridiculous mark-up.
And how much of the Android market constitutes such devices? There are probably many Android devices that are far closer to what was available in the US years ago. I suspect that these sell for for less than 1293 yuan and are more common.
90.1% that is kind of the point. In the fastest *growing* market in the world. So no not old Androids new Androids.:)
Statistics without context do not necessarily represent facts.
No they are pretty much facts, These are smartphones in every sense of the word with an average price of 1393 yuan you get a serious phone. Apple are simply not worth the money at 4523 yuan.
And yet Apple sells iPhones as fast as they are put on the shelves in China.
The whole point is not only do they not. To put it in perspective China's smartphone is set to overtake that of the US this year; Smartphone shipments overtook Featurephone shipments for the first time accounting for 51% of 87Million Phones...To put that in perspective Apple only sold 26.9Million worldwide during the same period, and the Android phones they are selling are not basic phones the average price is 1393 yuan that is about $223...you get a lot of Android phone for that money from companies like Huawei [3rd in world selling 16million units this quarter] ZTE[5th in World selling 8Million this quarter] and Lenovo [yes that Lenovo 9th selling 7 Million] this quarter.
Most are not able to afford the iPhone, hence the high percentage of Android users over there.
What a load of crap The Android phones in question are selling at an average of 1293 yuan that is about $236 and you can get a really good Android phone for that. If Apple have chosen to price themselves out of the market, that is their choice. In the short term it might look great for profits, but as we can see they are irrelevant in China.
I think you can compare Apple to a car manufacturer like BMW.
Enough with the marketing crap. Android phones at the at an average price of 1293 yuan are about $236 you get an Android Phone that has measurably better hardware than an iPhone for that money and subjectively better software [I would say years ahead]. Maybe you should pick on of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_automobile_manufacturers_of_the_United_States
Seriously I can't help feeling like Apple propaganda is kind of sad now they are irrelevant. The iPhone is a failure in China and in current news its market share [as everywhere] is dropping YOY [its irrelevant] from 5.8% and by quarter from 6.0 down to 4.2 unlike Android which has gone YOY 46.8% and by quarter 82.8% to 90.1%...Android is outselling Apple 21:1
The start of the interview eerily echos the likes of RMS talking more about fear of the cloud; Ownership [Device and Data] and Subscription services, which I personally believe is a more interesting topic that this pissing contest topic.
The question about innovation has troll written all over it. The answer was not as the summary suggest "Microsoft is more innovative than Apple [or Google]", but that Microsoft seemed to be looking for revolutionary innovation as opposed to [Apples] post Jobs evolutionary innovation. Woz explains what he means; Apple is simply producing improved versions of its own products rather than creating new markets [post Steve Jobs]. To be honest I think the word innovation is stretched very heavily to mean something completely different, from what I would say it meant.
The discussion of whether innovative[sic] people [Scott Forstall] are being pushed out for being like Jobs[Innovative but not nice], Woz and I paraphrase a little basically says Apple creating great products despite Jobs [uses words like dis-admire?; rough; not friendly; real rugged bastard; put people down; make them feel demeaned].
Woz handled what seemed to be a interviewer with an agenda, with honest answers [or at least came across as such] that unfortunately are hidden behind a summery that does the same.
Re:The biggest walled garden is an Apple orchard.
on
The Empire In Decline?
·
· Score: 1
" the bombshell that Apple only managed to sell 14million ipads"
in the last what - three weeks of the quarter?
Really, apple haters are a pathetic lot - let's come back at the end of this quarter and see what tune everyone is singing...
Do not get confused what Apple call their Q4 is Q3. Its for a full quarter. The results are posted here. http://investor.apple.com/ They sold 17Million last quarter. Calling me a hater will not satisfy the shareholders or sell more iPads in that quarter.
Re:The biggest walled garden is an Apple orchard.
on
The Empire In Decline?
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
Ferrari isn't concerned that Ford sells more cars than them.
Except Apple is terrified, that it is losing relevance, because unlike a Ferrari, its hardware is arguably worse than the competition [Its brand is being damaged]. Unlike Ferrari Apple rely on a ecosystem of App developers/Content Providers that will lose interest in its platform if its market share continues to drop. Unlike Ferrari without a controlling interest in the Phone market. Its 3rd party ecosystem will die [signs of this are everywhere], damaging the brand.
Lets face it Apple is not Ferrari, they are not even ford, they simply commanded the market because they were perceived as first mover in a new market and cashed in on all the early adopter money, where companies can always charge a premium...ask Sony.
Like I said Apples Losing relevance...Microsoft never had any.
Sorry you should re-read my post. LG used to make windows phones, and was suffering as a result. Like Nokia is but Nokia were stupid enough to go exclusive. They are now Android exclusive and are now profitable again. I said nothing of the other manufacturers.
As for your new claim that Windows Phone is a failure because of marketing I'm not even going to bother to refute. Again re-read my post. Its not great but covers the main point new windows strategy looks like old windows strategy from a worse starting position.
Slashdot Mirror
iPhone's are not in demand? What reality are you living in? Have you seen Apple's quarterly statements?
The reality where Apple have low demand for a massive mobile phone that is localised to the US and UK due to carriers wanting to lock customers into long contracts...and even in those places its outsold by Android, but to answer your questions I do read there financial statements. :)
Right because the best measure if how well the iPhone is doing is by looking at Amazon's website. Last time I checked, Apple has its own stores and sell them through carriers.
LOL the selling figures for the whole of china
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com.hk&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://data.eguan.cn/yidonghulian_147283.html&usg=ALkJrhi2UMQ3zW-yIsGyynI-urAOZLDDkg
Apple is 4.2% and Android 90.1% nothing to do with Amazon.
I'm sorry perhaps Its a pit complicated for you to understand why I would choose the 3 most popular phones on a list when looking at average. If its too complicated for you I will show you the maths.
The three Phones
=============
http://www.gsmarena.com/huawei_ascend_g330-4966.php
http://www.gsmarena.com/zte_grand_x-4597.php
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i9300_galaxy_s_iii-4238.php
As you can see these phones are neither old or under specced they are great value for money phones. Android will shine on these phones.
In fact the inclusion of the high priced Samsung galaxy III implies that price in not the only reason for the absolute failure of the iPhone.
Considering the iPhone is both available for Amazon though the link I gave you and unsurprisingly available through the Apple Chine website, pretending that the iPhone is has supply issues is farcical...its simply unwanted.
Again your statements do not represent any facts which is why you cannot link to any supporting information.
Wow I think you have every cliche in there. Lets be honest Android market share is significantly higher everywhere, including the US and Europe and the Gap between them is getting worse. Android developer hirings have been higher than those for iOS for sometime and again that gap is increasing [regardless of what you think in your fantasy job].
Ironically pretending that Android is somehow inferior to iOS its farcical, or that its somehow buggy, is simply wishful thinking because you paid such a massive mark-up for your device, Ironically the "race to the bottom"...or capitalism, is great for consumers and the Chinese are having a smartphone experience better than yours for a fraction of the cost.
FYI Apple makes most of its money overcharging for its electronics, but it does make 30% on all content too, thank goodness its cartel was blocked and the rest of us can enjoy competitive pricing...or as you would say "race to the bottom"
No I am saying that people buy what they can afford. Not all Chinese can afford the 1300 yuan devices.if 1300 is the average then there are phones that are far cheaper. These cheaper phones won't have comparable features.
A quick look at the best selling Android phones on Amazon china http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.cn%2F show the three most popular Android devices to be ZTE U930 at 926 yuan; Huawei Ascend G330C and 966 yuan; and Samsun Gaxaxy III at 3,729 yuan, which is what you would expect for an average of 1300. The under 1000 phones, both come with dual-core processors 4.0 and 4.3 inch IPS creens and Ice cream sandwich...I assume you are familiar with the SIII :)
I find it astonishing that you have tried to refute my posts without one single shed of evidence that backs your fairytale view of china. When the internet makes it so simple to check facts. Please don't continue to shame yourself, and do the modicum of research first.
Yes but their market cap is still more than 2x Google's.
Of course shareholders were happier when the price was $700, but that doesn't change the point that companies don't aim to eventually dominate the market, they aim to maximize shareholder value.
I think you need to stop posting, because I don't think you understand. Market Cap[italization] is simply shares outstanding x share value. If the share drops the market Caps drops too. Right now Apple shares are in freefall so is there Market Cap.
If you want to compare the iPhone to Android by pretending that its Apple [A multiple electronics company] vs Google [Controls one Android Phone subsidiary, the OS, An Online Store...and a phone brand] market cap knock yourself out, personally I think its crackers, but like I say Apple shares and therefore its capitalisation is in freefall.
you assume sales are demand limited rather than supply limited.
http://www.apple.com/asia/iphone/buy/#cn
No I don't. I just don't live in the land of unicorns. The link is from the offical Apple site where to buy the iphone in china....Link No1 is Apple Online Store :) The Nexus devices sell out; not so much the iDevices.
Android is replacing Symbian, not iPhone. Really, look at the numbers. In China, people wish for an iPhone, but settle for an Android. That could hurt them eventually, but not now.
Your absolutely right Apple was never a success in China. Its simply more of failure now. Can we stop the bullshit that people wish for an iPhone, people are choosing Android over Apple worldwide at 5:1, with 70% of sales vs Apples 15%. Apple simply is irrelevant to the smartphone market.
The purpose of a company is to make money for its shareholders, and Apple's market cap is more than double Google's, so I think they are doing their job fine.
Apples Market Cap has taken a bit of a beating itself on the back of a whole host of bad news. Share Price Down from $700 to 530. Guess those shareholders are a little unhappy. Perhaps they are not doing such a good job :)
Ignoring your hilarious and possibly racist argument that Chinese people are stupid and buy old designed phones over the new ones ...
Because you are implying that the Chinese are so stupid they would buy a "Nexus one" over a "Lenovo P770" FYI Lenovo has now overtaken Nokia to be 9th largest manufacture of phones worldwide.
Again as your posting in two threads "Lenovo P770 which is around 1300 yuan has a 4.5"display with qHD resolution, a 8 mega-pixel rear camera; 12Mhz dual core processor, 1GB of RAM and Android 4.1.1 and a 3300MAh!?"
Only Apple sell old phones to fill out its product line the rest of the market have to update their product lines.
A phone using such a design could be manufactured and sold for far less than 1293 yuan. Something like a Nexus One with Android 2.1 rather than a Nexus 4 running Android 4.2.
Lenovo P770 which is around 1300 yuan has a 4.5"display with qHD resolution, a 8 mega-pixel rear camera; 12Hhx dual core processor, 1GB of RAM and Android 4.1.1 and a 3300MAh!? camera
Seriously what are you talking about!!
Google is a failure in China
No Google took the high ground in China, as its computers were hacked and they demanded too much control [User Information] The reality is though the iphone even worldwide is being outsold 5:1 by Android its just just a bigger failure in China being outsold 21:1
Unless Android and iPhone have somewhat comparable supply and demand the stats are not truly indicating consumer preference.
Ignoring your hilarious and possibly racist argument that Chinese people are stupid and buy old designed phones over the new ones, while at the same time not understanding that 1393 yuan average is the reality...and represents 51% of the phone market...that is what they are paying.
The reality is Android phones are in demand...iPhone not so much, consumers pretty much decide with their money, and that is not going to Apple.
It's not that the iPhone is a failure in china
Its exactly a failure in China, Android is outselling Apple 21:1 however you spin it. These are not people tied into 2 year contacts.
As for you comparing McDonalds to "Android" shame on you. These are on average 1393 yuan phones for that price you get measurably better hardware, and arguably better software. Its more popular because its *better value* not *cheaper* which is why Android share is increased to 90.1% and Apples has dropped to 4.2%. Maybe Apple should lose some of that ridiculous mark-up.
And how much of the Android market constitutes such devices? There are probably many Android devices that are far closer to what was available in the US years ago. I suspect that these sell for for less than 1293 yuan and are more common.
90.1% that is kind of the point. In the fastest *growing* market in the world. So no not old Androids new Androids. :)
Me rikey iPod very much. ah soo
Ignoring the racist slant. iPods [5.3 million this quarter] are simply stopped selling it is one of the reasons that Apple stock is in freefall.
Statistics without context do not necessarily represent facts.
No they are pretty much facts, These are smartphones in every sense of the word with an average price of 1393 yuan you get a serious phone. Apple are simply not worth the money at 4523 yuan.
And yet Apple sells iPhones as fast as they are put on the shelves in China.
The whole point is not only do they not. To put it in perspective China's smartphone is set to overtake that of the US this year; Smartphone shipments overtook Featurephone shipments for the first time accounting for 51% of 87Million Phones...To put that in perspective Apple only sold 26.9Million worldwide during the same period, and the Android phones they are selling are not basic phones the average price is 1393 yuan that is about $223...you get a lot of Android phone for that money from companies like Huawei [3rd in world selling 16million units this quarter] ZTE[5th in World selling 8Million this quarter] and Lenovo [yes that Lenovo 9th selling 7 Million] this quarter.
Android outsells Apple 21:1 its not even funny
Most are not able to afford the iPhone, hence the high percentage of Android users over there.
What a load of crap The Android phones in question are selling at an average of 1293 yuan that is about $236 and you can get a really good Android phone for that. If Apple have chosen to price themselves out of the market, that is their choice. In the short term it might look great for profits, but as we can see they are irrelevant in China.
I think you can compare Apple to a car manufacturer like BMW.
Enough with the marketing crap. Android phones at the at an average price of 1293 yuan are about $236 you get an Android Phone that has measurably better hardware than an iPhone for that money and subjectively better software [I would say years ahead]. Maybe you should pick on of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_automobile_manufacturers_of_the_United_States
Seriously I can't help feeling like Apple propaganda is kind of sad now they are irrelevant. The iPhone is a failure in China and in current news its market share [as everywhere] is dropping YOY [its irrelevant] from 5.8% and by quarter from 6.0 down to 4.2 unlike Android which has gone YOY 46.8% and by quarter 82.8% to 90.1%...Android is outselling Apple 21:1
The start of the interview eerily echos the likes of RMS talking more about fear of the cloud; Ownership [Device and Data] and Subscription services, which I personally believe is a more interesting topic that this pissing contest topic.
The question about innovation has troll written all over it. The answer was not as the summary suggest "Microsoft is more innovative than Apple [or Google]", but that Microsoft seemed to be looking for revolutionary innovation as opposed to [Apples] post Jobs evolutionary innovation. Woz explains what he means; Apple is simply producing improved versions of its own products rather than creating new markets [post Steve Jobs]. To be honest I think the word innovation is stretched very heavily to mean something completely different, from what I would say it meant.
The discussion of whether innovative[sic] people [Scott Forstall] are being pushed out for being like Jobs[Innovative but not nice], Woz and I paraphrase a little basically says Apple creating great products despite Jobs [uses words like dis-admire?; rough; not friendly; real rugged bastard; put people down; make them feel demeaned].
Woz handled what seemed to be a interviewer with an agenda, with honest answers [or at least came across as such] that unfortunately are hidden behind a summery that does the same.
" the bombshell that Apple only managed to sell 14million ipads"
in the last what - three weeks of the quarter?
Really, apple haters are a pathetic lot - let's come back at the end of this quarter and see what tune everyone is singing...
Do not get confused what Apple call their Q4 is Q3. Its for a full quarter. The results are posted here. http://investor.apple.com/ They sold 17Million last quarter. Calling me a hater will not satisfy the shareholders or sell more iPads in that quarter.
Ferrari isn't concerned that Ford sells more cars than them.
Except Apple is terrified, that it is losing relevance, because unlike a Ferrari, its hardware is arguably worse than the competition [Its brand is being damaged]. Unlike Ferrari Apple rely on a ecosystem of App developers/Content Providers that will lose interest in its platform if its market share continues to drop. Unlike Ferrari without a controlling interest in the Phone market. Its 3rd party ecosystem will die [signs of this are everywhere], damaging the brand.
Lets face it Apple is not Ferrari, they are not even ford, they simply commanded the market because they were perceived as first mover in a new market and cashed in on all the early adopter money, where companies can always charge a premium...ask Sony.
Like I said Apples Losing relevance...Microsoft never had any.
Sorry you should re-read my post. LG used to make windows phones, and was suffering as a result. Like Nokia is but Nokia were stupid enough to go exclusive. They are now Android exclusive and are now profitable again. I said nothing of the other manufacturers.
As for your new claim that Windows Phone is a failure because of marketing I'm not even going to bother to refute. Again re-read my post. Its not great but covers the main point new windows strategy looks like old windows strategy from a worse starting position.