Not just him, most of us are that cynical and we have historical proof to back up our cynicism. You try to prove these 'people' (especially in the last thirty years) give a fucking damn about us beyond "what's in it for them". In a country where selfishness is king it should be interesting if believable.
If most of the public wasn't cynical already you think much of this shit that's going on would have been stopped by the public outcry. It won't because most have already given up.
"How many letters to the White House have you sent?"
I'm not getting sent preventive detention before I get a chance to use lethal force since I long since stopped believing that they are going to listen to anything else. The past is full of neutered/dead examples of those who talked first.
"How many times have you written to your congress critters?"
Ditto.
"How many of your friends, relatives, and acquaintances have you educated, relative to these issues?"
They aren't listening, don't want to miss Idol, or believe they can do nothing.
"Are you speaking to your children and their friends?"
Don't have any.
"Have you encouraged all of those friends, relatives, acquiantances, and children to write to the PTB?"
Ditto They aren't listening.
"Have you involved your state representatives in the discussion?"
They're scared to listen and give lip service.
"Have you approached your local representatives?"
Ditto.
"I promise you that if you consider the issue to be an administrative issue, you're in for a rude awakening. It isn't Obama - it is GOVERNMENT. Obama may be a rather large and obvious cog in the machine, but he is still just a cog."
"But I agree that Linux is more and more a norm by itself and that his UNIX part is slowly mutating into a simple compatibility interface layer. I am not even surprised about that since UNIX was created at his time for hardware and application that are really out of the focus of the today market needs. The fact that the UNIX API last so long prove that it was a very good design, but this design don't include today hardware and application that was just pure fiction when it was created."
In other words, Linux isn't being engineered anymore, it's being driven by the masses.
"The protocol is open and free for any other OS to implement, and will remain so."
But who says they want to or should have to deal with it. Just because it's there doesn't mean anyone wants it.
"If the BSDs are left in the dust, it's because they're lacking the manpower to do the things a new GUI needs. This was not a big problem for GNOME 2, which is architecturally more than a decade old. But things have changed."
A new GUI? A new GUI, a new pretty to go with all the pretty we already have collected over the last twenty years that does the same fucking thing! It's just reinventing the wheel as superficially as possible for a completely superficial culture. If there's a god, save us from a new GUI that's the same as the old GUI.
And as for the BSD being left in the dust you might want to look at your critical infrastructure.
"There's a NEED for something like kdbus independt of systemd. We needs a new IPC type, like domain sockets, except with reliable multicast and filtering. Linux domain sockets do not support multicast, much elss reliable multicast. Approaches to add this have been tried: Both by directly adding multicast to domain sockets or by adding an ew address family (AF_DBUS), but patches adding that to unix domain sockets have been rejected, as has AF_DBUS."
Contaminating Unix wide standards with Linux specific shit isn't a good idea, especially for the rest that don't want it and have no use for it. See the GCC and the Linux specific junk in the C/C++ standards. Nothing but headaches.
"cleaner, more flexible, better at handling dependencies"
Is it? Seems to add more complexity to me. Newer, buggy, does not support legacy, isn't portable, potential lock in source. Large monolithic program with binary interfaces and inerds versus human readable output and structure of the old system. Wow it's got something there. My response isn't to parent but in agreement and against those that thought these large binary systems were a good idea for a KISS system.
"I'll bite- how does K/Dbus help with a smooth transition to a login screen?"
Absolutely nothing. The hardware is so fast the software could stop and take a leak during the transition and no human would notice due to short time of the incident. Like all the other changes in that linux dependent group(systemd, etc) all it really does is kill portability as applications that other systems currently use eventually use linux exclusively. Congratulations on becoming Microsoft. Linux seems in the same condition now as the US legal/ethically now vs US in the 80's. Steve Ballmer must be laughing his ass off.
"An OS ready for the radiant fascist/socialist future where the user has no control over the computer driven devices he supposedly owns."
1. Windows -- Obvious proprietary reasons. 2. OSX -- Dido(1) 2.5 Proprietary applications -- Self-evident. 3. Linux -- Because the Linux kernel has become so large and complex no one will be interested or can find anything out in that gigantic morass of code. 3.5 Open source applications -- Dido(3).(firefox, libreoffice) 4. BSDs -- potential dido(3). 5. Plan9 -- very distant dido(3). 6. Ios -- dido(1), android --dido(1)(3), WP --dido(1).
I already have. As a Linux user from very near it's beginning(93-94) and dumping Windows completely over it's shenanigans in the early 2000s. I'm now seeing Linux become Windows. Unfortunately BSD is affected by the influence of the shadow(guess the reference) as well(applications and support systems). Guess Plan9 if it's developers would stop treating it as their personal toy and expand it's application support to something a wider audience could actually use...
For the structured programming crowd: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now start breathing again and be happy it's not your code. I'm probably going to look at the code soon just to see any 'goto' statements(been awhile) and my internal coding voice is saying in a sinister tone "You're going to drinking early tonight."
"And Keith Packard wrote the X Server and AFAIC he wrote some seriously crappy C code for that. Maybe he's gotten better with time, but circa 1991 the server source was a disaster; no use of ANSI function decls, lots of mismatched types. Making the sample server work on 64-bit litt.."
I remember those times too. Crappy code to match the 16>? hour workdays, lack of sleep, and bad eating habits. Shower? what's that? Saw more space aliens than girls/women whatever they are now. 70 hour weekends staring with bloodshot eyes at screeching monitors making sure the code was working right and fixing bugs. Working to get the code out right before the company execs cancelled the project for unrelated reasons. Even in the 90's coding seemed more made up than standardized. Good times? Well the time got spent.
"PROTIP: if nobody is updating your solution, but copying everybody elses, it's because they've realised your solution was bullshit and everybody is moving to the more standard, generally accepted one."
Then why is X and it's variants all over the place? You and I know that saying 'generally accepted' ignores what made it generally accepted(economics vs technical) and doesn't make it right. I said now they're copying others long after X is a structural standard. X was known to have glaring problems fifteen years ago and now wayland comes along. How about producing X12 around 2000 with compression, direct buffering, and etc. when there wasn't so much legacy. And now when most of that has been implemented they change things at a basic level. It reeks of the current trend of changeitis than anything else. Hey and just for fun, new bugs, portability problems, flexibility issues, questionable backward compatibility, no future compatibility, and lack of applications, yea!!! Thanks for putting us farther down the hole again. If anything job security is going up.
"What people should realize here is that the "Justice" system is in place to, primarily, protect the power structure."
That's what it's morphed into recently. When it was created law and justice did what it was supposed to according to the creators. The system has failed along the same lines as it has in every mature government.
"They got scared and decided the Bush policies were just the ticket to prevent the backlash because then they can say they did everything they could."
So, in other words, you're saying they did what the Bush administration did because they're spineless wimps who can't handle the responsibilities of the office. Responsibilities means making the decisions and taking actions for the US public (American people) instead of their careers, taking the heat for both being good and bad, and accepting accountability as well as being held accountable for their decisions and actions.
Very few politicians in the last fifty years fit that mold.
"Should some sort of CS or programming classes be availably to anyone in K-12 that is interested or curious? Sure. It would be a great elective class."
Mod this guy up 100. Remember though, kids only go for the 'exciting' classes.
"Obviously never seen the only girl in a CS class. Most dudes crush on her, and most of the time she doesn't want any part of it. She demonstrates not all women use sex even when she could."
So in other words, the CS classes get the girls that are duds.
Slashdot Mirror
" surely religion in the US is more popular than that?"
No, maybe public education is better than we thought.
"you are that cynical."
Not just him, most of us are that cynical and we have historical proof to back up our cynicism. You try to prove these 'people' (especially in the last thirty years) give a fucking damn about us beyond "what's in it for them". In a country where selfishness is king it should be interesting if believable.
If most of the public wasn't cynical already you think much of this shit that's going on would have been stopped by the public outcry. It won't because most have already given up.
"How many letters to the White House have you sent?"
I'm not getting sent preventive detention before I get a chance to use lethal force since I long since stopped believing that they are going to listen to anything else. The past is full of neutered/dead examples of those who talked first.
"How many times have you written to your congress critters?"
Ditto.
"How many of your friends, relatives, and acquaintances have
you educated, relative to these issues?"
They aren't listening, don't want to miss Idol, or believe they can do nothing.
"Are you speaking to your children and their friends?"
Don't have any.
"Have you encouraged all of those friends, relatives, acquiantances, and children to write to the PTB?"
Ditto They aren't listening.
"Have you involved your state representatives in the discussion?"
They're scared to listen and give lip service.
"Have you approached your local representatives?"
Ditto.
"I promise you that if you consider the issue to be an administrative issue, you're in for a rude awakening. It isn't Obama - it is GOVERNMENT. Obama may be a rather large and obvious cog in the machine, but he is still just a cog."
He's also the cog in charge.
"But I agree that Linux is more and more a norm by itself and that his UNIX part is slowly mutating into a simple compatibility interface layer. I am not even surprised about that since UNIX was created at his time for hardware and application that are really out of the focus of the today market needs. The fact that the UNIX API last so long prove that it was a very good design, but this design don't include today hardware and application that was just pure fiction when it was created."
In other words, Linux isn't being engineered anymore, it's being driven by the masses.
" It's also a step in the direction to have a universal app spec instead of having to have each distro package the same damn app."
So linux standard base is dead, right?
"Linux is not Unix."
Yep, Linux is Open source Windows and getting about as ugly.
"The protocol is open and free for any other OS to implement, and will remain so."
But who says they want to or should have to deal with it. Just because it's there doesn't mean anyone wants it.
"If the BSDs are left in the dust, it's because they're lacking the manpower to do the things a new GUI needs. This was not a big problem for GNOME 2, which is architecturally more than a decade old. But things have changed."
A new GUI? A new GUI, a new pretty to go with all the pretty we already have collected over the last twenty years that does the same fucking thing! It's just reinventing the wheel as superficially as possible for a completely superficial culture. If there's a god, save us from a new GUI that's the same as the old GUI.
And as for the BSD being left in the dust you might want to look at your critical infrastructure.
"There's a NEED for something like kdbus independt of systemd. We needs a new IPC type, like domain sockets, except with reliable multicast and filtering. Linux domain sockets do not support multicast, much elss reliable multicast. Approaches to add this have been tried: Both by directly adding multicast to domain sockets or by adding an ew address family (AF_DBUS), but patches adding that to unix domain sockets have been rejected, as has AF_DBUS."
Contaminating Unix wide standards with Linux specific shit isn't a good idea, especially for the rest that don't want it and have no use for it. See the GCC and the Linux specific junk in the C/C++ standards. Nothing but headaches.
"I killed pulseaudio so that everything would use ALSA."
The second biggest was when I dump both and went back to OSS. On Linux and FreeBSD.
"I've read the reasons for systemd. "
You win a cookie.
"Faster boots"
Drop an SSD in the box. Problem non-existent.
"cleaner, more flexible, better at handling dependencies"
Is it? Seems to add more complexity to me. Newer, buggy, does not support legacy, isn't portable, potential lock in source. Large monolithic program with binary interfaces and inerds versus human readable output and structure of the old system. Wow it's got something there. My response isn't to parent but in agreement and against those that thought these large binary systems were a good idea for a KISS system.
"I'll bite- how does K/Dbus help with a smooth transition to a login screen?"
Absolutely nothing. The hardware is so fast the software could stop and take a leak during the transition and no human would notice due to short time of the incident. Like all the other changes in that linux dependent group(systemd, etc) all it really does is kill portability as applications that other systems currently use eventually use linux exclusively. Congratulations on becoming Microsoft. Linux seems in the same condition now as the US legal/ethically now vs US in the 80's. Steve Ballmer must be laughing his ass off.
"An OS ready for the radiant fascist/socialist future where the user has no control over the computer driven devices he supposedly owns."
1. Windows -- Obvious proprietary reasons.
2. OSX -- Dido(1)
2.5 Proprietary applications -- Self-evident.
3. Linux -- Because the Linux kernel has become so large and complex no one will be interested or can find anything out in that gigantic morass of code.
3.5 Open source applications -- Dido(3).(firefox, libreoffice)
4. BSDs -- potential dido(3).
5. Plan9 -- very distant dido(3).
6. Ios -- dido(1), android --dido(1)(3), WP --dido(1).
"go head over to the BSD world."
I already have. As a Linux user from very near it's beginning(93-94) and dumping Windows completely over it's shenanigans in the early 2000s. I'm now seeing Linux become Windows. Unfortunately BSD is affected by the influence of the shadow(guess the reference) as well(applications and support systems). Guess Plan9 if it's developers would stop treating it as their personal toy and expand it's application support to something a wider audience could actually use...
"Btw: Why is KDBUS code full with 'goto' calls ?"
For the structured programming crowd:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now start breathing again and be happy it's not your code. I'm probably going to look at the code soon just to see any 'goto' statements(been awhile) and my internal coding voice is saying in a sinister tone "You're going to drinking early tonight."
cap noonday
"And Keith Packard wrote the X Server and AFAIC he wrote some seriously crappy C code for that. Maybe he's gotten better with time, but circa 1991 the server source was a disaster; no use of ANSI function decls, lots of mismatched types. Making the sample server work on 64-bit litt.."
I remember those times too. Crappy code to match the 16>? hour workdays, lack of sleep, and bad eating habits. Shower? what's that? Saw more space aliens than girls/women whatever they are now. 70 hour weekends staring with bloodshot eyes at screeching monitors making sure the code was working right and fixing bugs. Working to get the code out right before the company execs cancelled the project for unrelated reasons. Even in the 90's coding seemed more made up than standardized. Good times? Well the time got spent.
" but circa 1991 the server source was a disaster; no use of ANSI function decls,"
I doubt ANSI was around all that long and C was barely standardized, especially to the older set.
"PROTIP: if nobody is updating your solution, but copying everybody elses, it's because they've realised your solution was bullshit and everybody is moving to the more standard, generally accepted one."
Then why is X and it's variants all over the place? You and I know that saying 'generally accepted' ignores what made it generally accepted(economics vs technical) and doesn't make it right. I said now they're copying others long after X is a structural standard. X was known to have glaring problems fifteen years ago and now wayland comes along. How about producing X12 around 2000 with compression, direct buffering, and etc. when there wasn't so much legacy. And now when most of that has been implemented they change things at a basic level. It reeks of the current trend of changeitis than anything else. Hey and just for fun, new bugs, portability problems, flexibility issues, questionable backward compatibility, no future compatibility, and lack of applications, yea!!! Thanks for putting us farther down the hole again. If anything job security is going up.
"Haiku-OS
Aros"
Minix, Plan9, MSWindows/wayland's mommy, riscOS, etc, etc.
Don't forget, the younger it is, the more buggy it'll be.
"messing up the Linux Toolchain."
It isn't just the linux toolchain. All the other *nix have to deal with these self/linux centric fuck-ups too! So much for portable.
"What people should realize here is that the "Justice" system is in place to, primarily, protect the power structure."
That's what it's morphed into recently. When it was created law and justice did what it was supposed to according to the creators. The system has failed along the same lines as it has in every mature government.
"There are ways to address concerns about abuses of government power, he chose the nuclear route."
When the nuclear route is all that's left, that's what you use.
"They got scared and decided the Bush policies were just the ticket to prevent the backlash because then they can say they did everything they could."
So, in other words, you're saying they did what the Bush administration did because they're spineless wimps who can't handle the responsibilities of the office. Responsibilities means making the decisions and taking actions for the US public (American people) instead of their careers, taking the heat for both being good and bad, and accepting accountability as well as being held accountable for their decisions and actions.
Very few politicians in the last fifty years fit that mold.
"Land of the free, alright - free of the ability to form cogent fucking thoughts."
You can't tell from the birth rate.
"Should some sort of CS or programming classes be availably to anyone in K-12 that is interested or curious? Sure. It would be a great elective class."
Mod this guy up 100. Remember though, kids only go for the 'exciting' classes.
"Obviously never seen the only girl in a CS class. Most dudes crush on her, and most of the time she doesn't want any part of it. She demonstrates not all women use sex even when she could."
So in other words, the CS classes get the girls that are duds.