I've already started doing that, beginning with my old Verve albums...I figure thst while they are still in near perfect condition I may as well make my fiar use backups. Anyone know how copyright law affects out of print or otherwise unabtainable media? Because I read somewhere that they are about to re-release this particular album, and I know I have others in my collection that you simply cannot find anymore.
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
But I think the main reason behind closed-source and windows only was because of the "your ad here" banner in the client. An open source version of the software would almost certainly breed a bannerless version, which appears to be where napster was planning on getting their cash from. Just a thought...
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
If you hate normal quake, try Qpong (Q2 mod). It involves a big metal ball that you have to shoot through the opposing team's goal. That's half the fun, dodging the ball and running over your opponents with it is the other half;P The only downside is that it's rare to find a server for it on the internet, but it's still fun as hell at lan parties.
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
I noticed in your predictions for 2000 that you make a pretty strong case for micropayments as opposed to clickthrough and ad impressions. How do you forsee this being implemented, in particular, would it be prone to the same problems as the adult verification services, where the customers may have to subscribe to a number of different services in order to get access to a variety of sites? Or would this be something implemented into the browser, or added onto the ISP's bill as a surcharge? Also, would this suffer the same fate as ad driven sites, where an article may be divided up into several sections to maximize revenue (where there is an agreement between the web site and the escro service for kickbacks?) Do you see privacy becoming an issue when a user's information is attached to a record of page views?
I don't want to sound like I'm attacking the idea, in fact I think it's a good one as opposed to popup banners and the customer tracking cookies currently found on most sites with any content. I'm just curious as to the what specifics you see in your prediction
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
""To handle/., you can either login each time or login with cookies enabled, save the necessary/. cookie, and then make the file read only.""
That's the best way to do it with netscape in Windows. Just leave cookies enabled and set cookies.txt R/O. What happens is you will be able to use yahoo mail type sites while in the same session but your roomate won't be able to snoop your emails after you close the browser. Most sites won't give you those stupid "you must have cookies" messages as well. Beats the hell out of "prompt before accepting"...
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
"" --- www.quakelives.com ping statistics --- 16 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss "" So much for 'licensing bandwidth', huh? Not to be mean But I think/. just revoked him:-)
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
Also if there were anyone 'and their lawyers' i would like to see defend this, it's john Carmack and Id Software. Look at it this way, Id has always had problems with people distributing their S/W illegally, from the 'shareware' cracked CD's to the Q3 IHv test program. They've had a lot of experience with this sort of thing and as a result are very vigilant, not to mention they get the support of the Quake players behind them (I'm guessing this guy is already becoming somewhat of a pariah as a result of his actions...) And if it does come to a court battle you can bet Id's lawyers will be a lot toothier than the ones the DeCSS defendants have. Of course this is all IMO, take it as you will, but defending the GPL in court may well be the best gift that John Carmack could ever give open source auhors.
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
OK, try this as an experiment. Get one of your freinds to download CANMAN from q2pmp...rename all the skins in there to the ones in the bunbun model's skin names, copy a few and rename them if there aren't enough to go around. Then have them rename the canman directory to bunbun. Leave your model directory just like it is. It will work, meaning that the bounding box is set within the game itself and not the model properties. Also notice how much better your friend has gotten instantly at hitting you in the bunbun.
BTW bunbun is the picture book definition of a bad model no matter where you go. Apparently it is the result of a troll on the q2pmp messageboards who was bragging about what a great model he had and wanted to show off, etc...after great length and pestering the guys there nearly to exhaustion that was the result. Anyway, that's the story as I heard it...
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
""Now if we could get Linus and Alan and ESR and RMS and all those other luminaries in the open source movement to start leading by example in the document-writing area the problem would start to fix itself. ""
Personally I would rather them *not* spend the time trying to write documentation at the level that end-users will all (or even mostly) be able to understand. That would mean longer waits between upgrades, patches and more good programs. However I do think *someone* has to do it. Maybe they could take on interns...people who they could give notes to who could cobble together some human-readable docs for the rest of the world. Frankly I'm amazed that none of all the newfound Linux-IPO money hasn't been doing this yet (maybe they are, but I haven't read about it on/. (-:)
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
The one difference I could think of is the level of support. Back when I was working ISP tech support there was a caller who was having lite crash, and wanted help. Since we didn't supply that S/W, have any access to it (read "weren't allowed to D/L it") and the netscape we gave her worked, all I could tell her was to call Quallcom. She said she did, and their tech told them since she got the free version they wouldn't help and hung up on her! Anyway, I wonder how much technical help she would get if she had to stare at amazon.com ads while reading her email?
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
I saw it on Freshmeat, and being the click-on-anyting-new type person I am I decided to download it. The installer didn't work quite right on my system, so I wind up telnetting in like I always have, however YMMV...I'm waiting for the next version myself, b/c a nice clicky-gui for pine would be real nice...
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
Call me crazy here, but I was under the impression that DeCSS and CSS-auth only decrypt the info, and that there is no player available yet. When/If we get a player for Linux it would be a smart idea to name it something like, say, "XDVDplay"? Or lord help us KDVD, GDVD, TK-DVD etc. Even DinD (DinD is not DeCSS (-:).
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
One thing to keep in mind. The people who are working on making a Free(ESR free that is) DVD player for Linux already have the source code, and are working on providing a player already. As for the general public, it really isn't of any practical use to them, other than protest value. At this point the only purpose in mirroring the S/W is to provoke the MPAA, because hey, they're up to no good here. There will always be a copy somewhere on a server not under the US's control with it up. The point of all this is that since the MPAA is still scouring the web, looking for this allegedly illegal S/W, and spending good money doing it, let's make it a little more fun for everyone. Why let them pay two people to surf when we can get them to subsidize a roomful. Look at it as creating new employment opportunities for former telemarketers. Oh, and don't overlook the fact that web developers are in a serious need of a tool to strip their pages of all that nasty CSS, at least until Netscape supports it better;)
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
Re:CmdrTaco Forgot one thing
on
A New DeCSS
·
· Score: 1
A poster above mentioned using a really hard-to-understand voice. I think that would be contrary to the purpose of actually *distributing* the code...I don't know how far the first amendment would go towards protecting _computer_ speech anyway. Better to have someone actually read it aloud. Less fun, but probably safer and more likely to be upheld in the event of a lawsuit. Also, there's the off chance someone might put it to music, like that not-kurt-vonnegut commencement speech about the sunscreen...
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
""Some of us have the ablity to pull apart the display and separate the components. Put a cable on the end of the decrypter and you can feed it whereever you want. ""
As far as legality goes, would marketing this as a "device to allow legacy monitors on new EQ" angle be enough to prevent lawsuits under the DMCA? Remember that Jon Johansen isn't being charged for writing DeCSS, or for copyright infringement, but the exact same thing that we're proposing here. Distributing a device designed to circumvent copy protection.
BTW check freshmeat for the DeCSS Announcement. It's mildly amusing...
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
"I suspect that some of the people who do the flaming are actually not advocates. Some of them are just trolls. Some are likely anti-Linux." Actually I think the term you're looking for is "Astroturfers"(?) and you're right on the mark...
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
I would say that they are tolerant of mediocre software. Every once in a while I'm actually impressed by something they put out (I happen to enjoy outlook express 5), and I tend to agree with you that the programmers are probably just doing their jobs, and dealing with whatever word comes from above. As a corporation, however, I would actually tend to agree that on the surface they do have a passion for mediocrity. Unfortunately, most people never see that and the unfinished, rushed, buggy products keep flying off the shelves.
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
Would that affect any sort of "Common Carrier Status" that Vandover may now have. For instance, the css-auth code was posted here previously for "safekeeping" by an anonymous coward. Since the AC owns that posting, there is really noone to come sue, right? Now, if that information is public domain, could there be any special pressure on Rob, etc. to remove it? Any lawyers want to surface and clarify this?
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
"PS: I'm wearing my DeCSS source code shirt to work today, and if I have to explain it means one more time, I'm going to go nuts. "
http://www.2600.com/news/2000/0130-flyer/
I've already passed out several at work and Have posted them at the school. I even got one of my buddies to take them to a Microsoft technology meeting that was being held on campus, and he ran out(of about 30!) of them.
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
I about died laughing when a local DJ, talking about metallica's CD-sales, stated that 9 million CDs sold (between two releases in one year) x $15 a CD would make them "very rich". True that 9 million CD's would mean a lot of money, but I'm guessing Metallica saw more like 10-50 cents a copy...
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
Please please please get her in front of the camera, someone get some photos...BSD Latex daemoness, if you're reading right now, and you wanna make a lot of money, throw up a few add banners (the people/. goes with ain't that bad, most people have doubleclick blocked) and link to some photos here. You'll be able to retire early, providing your web server can handle the slashdot effect...
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
There are a lot of people who *never* call tech support, or only for things like 'what number do I dial...' but the vast majority of tech support calls come from the few (say 7-10%) 'valued customers' who easily rack up about 90% of the tech calls.
mcrandello@my-deja.com rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
Slashdot Mirror
I've already started doing that, beginning with my old Verve albums...I figure thst while they are still in near perfect condition I may as well make my fiar use backups. Anyone know how copyright law affects out of print or otherwise unabtainable media? Because I read somewhere that they are about to re-release this particular album, and I know I have others in my collection that you simply cannot find anymore.
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
But I think the main reason behind closed-source and windows only was because of the "your ad here" banner in the client. An open source version of the software would almost certainly breed a bannerless version, which appears to be where napster was planning on getting their cash from. Just a thought...
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
If you hate normal quake, try Qpong (Q2 mod). It involves a big metal ball that you have to shoot through the opposing team's goal. That's half the fun, dodging the ball and running over your opponents with it is the other half ;P The only downside is that it's rare to find a server for it on the internet, but it's still fun as hell at lan parties.
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
Oh, the link for that page is...
:)
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/991226.html
Sorry for not including it before
In case there is no smiley above there should be, just like the last sentence of the above comment...posting plain text, bug in S/W???
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
I noticed in your predictions for 2000 that you make a pretty strong case for micropayments as opposed to clickthrough and ad impressions. How do you forsee this being implemented, in particular, would it be prone to the same problems as the adult verification services, where the customers may have to subscribe to a number of different services in order to get access to a variety of sites? Or would this be something implemented into the browser, or added onto the ISP's bill as a surcharge? Also, would this suffer the same fate as ad driven sites, where an article may be divided up into several sections to maximize revenue (where there is an agreement between the web site and the escro service for kickbacks?) Do you see privacy becoming an issue when a user's information is attached to a record of page views?
I don't want to sound like I'm attacking the idea, in fact I think it's a good one as opposed to popup banners and the customer tracking cookies currently found on most sites with any content. I'm just curious as to the what specifics you see in your prediction
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
""To handle /., you can either login each time or login with cookies enabled, save the necessary /. cookie, and then make the file read only.""
That's the best way to do it with netscape in Windows. Just leave cookies enabled and set cookies.txt R/O. What happens is you will be able to use yahoo mail type sites while in the same session but your roomate won't be able to snoop your emails after you close the browser. Most sites won't give you those stupid "you must have cookies" messages as well. Beats the hell out of "prompt before accepting"...
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
"" --- www.quakelives.com ping statistics --- 16 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss "" So much for 'licensing bandwidth', huh? Not to be mean But I think /. just revoked him :-)
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
Also if there were anyone 'and their lawyers' i would like to see defend this, it's john Carmack and Id Software. Look at it this way, Id has always had problems with people distributing their S/W illegally, from the 'shareware' cracked CD's to the Q3 IHv test program. They've had a lot of experience with this sort of thing and as a result are very vigilant, not to mention they get the support of the Quake players behind them (I'm guessing this guy is already becoming somewhat of a pariah as a result of his actions...) And if it does come to a court battle you can bet Id's lawyers will be a lot toothier than the ones the DeCSS defendants have. Of course this is all IMO, take it as you will, but defending the GPL in court may well be the best gift that John Carmack could ever give open source auhors.
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
OK, try this as an experiment. Get one of your freinds to download CANMAN from q2pmp...rename all the skins in there to the ones in the bunbun model's skin names, copy a few and rename them if there aren't enough to go around. Then have them rename the canman directory to bunbun. Leave your model directory just like it is. It will work, meaning that the bounding box is set within the game itself and not the model properties. Also notice how much better your friend has gotten instantly at hitting you in the bunbun.
BTW bunbun is the picture book definition of a bad model no matter where you go. Apparently it is the result of a troll on the q2pmp messageboards who was bragging about what a great model he had and wanted to show off, etc...after great length and pestering the guys there nearly to exhaustion that was the result. Anyway, that's the story as I heard it...
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
""Now if we could get Linus and Alan and ESR and RMS and all those other luminaries in the open source movement to start leading by example in the document-writing area the problem would start to fix itself. ""
/. (-:)
Personally I would rather them *not* spend the time trying to write documentation at the level that end-users will all (or even mostly) be able to understand. That would mean longer waits between upgrades, patches and more good programs. However I do think *someone* has to do it. Maybe they could take on interns...people who they could give notes to who could cobble together some human-readable docs for the rest of the world. Frankly I'm amazed that none of all the newfound Linux-IPO money hasn't been doing this yet (maybe they are, but I haven't read about it on
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
""Can you distinctly remember one internet ad that really stuck in your mind like a tv ad sometimes can do?""
The punch the monkey ads? Although I must admit I never took them up on it. It would seem wrong to have someone pay you $20 to "punch the monkey"...
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
The one difference I could think of is the level of support. Back when I was working ISP tech support there was a caller who was having lite crash, and wanted help. Since we didn't supply that S/W, have any access to it (read "weren't allowed to D/L it") and the netscape we gave her worked, all I could tell her was to call Quallcom. She said she did, and their tech told them since she got the free version they wouldn't help and hung up on her! Anyway, I wonder how much technical help she would get if she had to stare at amazon.com ads while reading her email?
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
I saw it on Freshmeat, and being the click-on-anyting-new type person I am I decided to download it. The installer didn't work quite right on my system, so I wind up telnetting in like I always have, however YMMV...I'm waiting for the next version myself, b/c a nice clicky-gui for pine would be real nice...
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
Call me crazy here, but I was under the impression that DeCSS and CSS-auth only decrypt the info, and that there is no player available yet. When/If we get a player for Linux it would be a smart idea to name it something like, say, "XDVDplay"? Or lord help us KDVD, GDVD, TK-DVD etc. Even DinD (DinD is not DeCSS (-:).
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
One thing to keep in mind. The people who are working on making a Free(ESR free that is) DVD player for Linux already have the source code, and are working on providing a player already. As for the general public, it really isn't of any practical use to them, other than protest value. At this point the only purpose in mirroring the S/W is to provoke the MPAA, because hey, they're up to no good here. There will always be a copy somewhere on a server not under the US's control with it up. The point of all this is that since the MPAA is still scouring the web, looking for this allegedly illegal S/W, and spending good money doing it, let's make it a little more fun for everyone. Why let them pay two people to surf when we can get them to subsidize a roomful. Look at it as creating new employment opportunities for former telemarketers. Oh, and don't overlook the fact that web developers are in a serious need of a tool to strip their pages of all that nasty CSS, at least until Netscape supports it better ;)
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
A poster above mentioned using a really hard-to-understand voice. I think that would be contrary to the purpose of actually *distributing* the code...I don't know how far the first amendment would go towards protecting _computer_ speech anyway. Better to have someone actually read it aloud. Less fun, but probably safer and more likely to be upheld in the event of a lawsuit. Also, there's the off chance someone might put it to music, like that not-kurt-vonnegut commencement speech about the sunscreen...
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
""Some of us have the ablity to pull apart the display and separate the components. Put a cable on the end of the decrypter and you can feed it whereever you want. ""
As far as legality goes, would marketing this as a "device to allow legacy monitors on new EQ" angle be enough to prevent lawsuits under the DMCA? Remember that Jon Johansen isn't being charged for writing DeCSS, or for copyright infringement, but the exact same thing that we're proposing here. Distributing a device designed to circumvent copy protection.
BTW check freshmeat for the DeCSS Announcement. It's mildly amusing...
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
Next time try this...
"JESUS LOVES YOU!"
Wait for them to smile,
"But everyone else thinks your an ASSHOLE!"
*that* works every time.
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
"I suspect that some of the people who do the flaming are actually not advocates. Some of them are just trolls. Some are likely anti-Linux." Actually I think the term you're looking for is "Astroturfers"(?) and you're right on the mark...
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
I would say that they are tolerant of mediocre software. Every once in a while I'm actually impressed by something they put out (I happen to enjoy outlook express 5), and I tend to agree with you that the programmers are probably just doing their jobs, and dealing with whatever word comes from above. As a corporation, however, I would actually tend to agree that on the surface they do have a passion for mediocrity. Unfortunately, most people never see that and the unfinished, rushed, buggy products keep flying off the shelves.
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
Would that affect any sort of "Common Carrier Status" that Vandover may now have. For instance, the css-auth code was posted here previously for "safekeeping" by an anonymous coward. Since the AC owns that posting, there is really noone to come sue, right? Now, if that information is public domain, could there be any special pressure on Rob, etc. to remove it? Any lawyers want to surface and clarify this?
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
"PS: I'm wearing my DeCSS source code shirt to work today, and if I have to explain it means one more time, I'm going to go nuts. "
http://www.2600.com/news/2000/0130-flyer/
I've already passed out several at work and Have posted them at the school. I even got one of my buddies to take them to a Microsoft technology meeting that was being held on campus, and he ran out(of about 30!) of them.
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
I about died laughing when a local DJ, talking about metallica's CD-sales, stated that 9 million CDs sold (between two releases in one year) x $15 a CD would make them "very rich". True that 9 million CD's would mean a lot of money, but I'm guessing Metallica saw more like 10-50 cents a copy...
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
Please please please get her in front of the camera, someone get some photos...BSD Latex daemoness, if you're reading right now, and you wanna make a lot of money, throw up a few add banners (the people /. goes with ain't that bad, most people have doubleclick blocked) and link to some photos here. You'll be able to retire early, providing your web server can handle the slashdot effect...
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
There are a lot of people who *never* call tech support, or only for things like 'what number do I dial...' but the vast majority of tech support calls come from the few (say 7-10%) 'valued customers' who easily rack up about 90% of the tech calls.
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.