People have gone on vacation to Maui before as well but that doesn't stop everyone else from going. Why? Because it's gorgeous and a bloody good time. Same with building your own balloon to space projects.
Small claims is just that "small" as in usually capped somewhere around $5000. How is that going to pay for medical bills, replace a house, etc.. But beyond that and even if you could round up a thousand others. You're still talking in the low millions and hardly anything that would make a dent in profits let along hurt the company enough to make them care to spend the money necessary to mend their ways. Either way, why should remediation be where things are addressed? Why should we not be trying to prevent the harm in the first place? You know "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" type thing... Personally I'd rather my rivers not smell of refuse and burn in flames. I'd rather not get cancer from my drinking water, and asthma from the air I breath even if I can win millions in court.
What if a team of lawyers doesn't figure they can make a lot of money? Not every offender can be matched in such an easy straight line to specific damages to specific parties. Link a specific polluter of the drinking water to a person's cancer that showed up 10, 20 years later. Even if you could, perhaps the company is no longer in business. But why should they have to be exposed in the first place why not regulate and enforce those standards to prevent the pollution that led to the person's cancer. Even if the person wins a major settlement, (while battling cancer) that money isn't going to make things right. They still have cancer.
It's a big and complicated job that's near impossible to not make a mistake so lets not try. Lets leave the peasants to fend for themselves with corporations free to hurt whoever they feel like because a peasant would have a snowball's chance in hell of being able to afford justice in court. Brilliant, simply brilliant.
Tell me Trout, do you have the money to pay for a crack team of lawyers that are a match for or better than those of the corporation doing the polluting? Do you even have the money to pay for an average lawyer and expenses related to filing a suit against said corporation. What would such a lawsuit do to you financially--especially if you lost and were forced to pay for the legal defense of the corporation? Tell me, how about your job, are they flexible enough with your schedule to let you go off for weeks/months to wage these legal campaigns?
The EPA exists to protect citizens for whom collectively pooled their resources to pay them to ensure they never have damages in the first place. Businesses in exchange are provided a uniform and known standard that permits them to operate with confidence provided they adhere to that standard.
It's really bloody obvious and simple. That minuscule damage and similarly small redress each company/person must pay is most certainly insufficient to motivate them to stop polluting. This of course assumes that someone was even able to successfully wage a successful legal action against them in the first place. The expense of which would generally out weight the amount won in compensation. The only way in which to prevent damaging pollution is to make that pollution illegal and provide a reasonable means by which to monitor for violators. Libertarians call it "regulation" and big-brother. The reality is that it is but an extension of the framework that deals other acts considered immoral by society like theft, murder, rape, etc..
Just because government is corruptible, just because government doesn't always get it right doesn't mean that you throw the baby out with the bath water. You think corporations run roughshod over citizens now with government being the instrument they puppet to get their way. What do you think will happen when there is no one to stand in the way but Mr. Joe Public, and his $40,000/year income from which he must pay for a lawyer?
In favor of? No. At least not in spirit. Most people are not consciously and intentionally evil, just thoughtless, inconsiderate, and generally self-serving. However, in practice the outcome is the same
.
Tell me, with out government overseers who the hell would have the pockets to fight and enforce justice? I can tell you that not one of those people living near that meat packing plant. Tell me, if someone in Minnesota dumps industrial waste into the Mississippi river, who would protect the residents of Baton Rouge from the resultant carcinogenic drinking water? What pockets would pay for justice? How would its residents make Acme Inc. stop?
Hmm. Bloody Libertarians, all "we the people" and "all praise to our founding fathers, their God guided hands, and their immaculate document." What'd we do with that document? We discovered that it dealt with damn near nothing of the problems the nation was and would face. So, we amended the hell out of it because it was anything but complete and still we had/have innumerable problems as society and its issues evolve. Our history--well before we established any kind of oversight--was fraught with a great deal of problems. Limiting thing to just water ways still includes and is certainly not limited to farmers damming up streams for irrigation to the detriment of their neighbors farther down. Mercury dumped without care into waterways for the extraction of gold. Manufacturing dumping whatever waste they saw fit into waterways to the point rivers actually caught ablaze. Septic systems amounting to little better than a pipe running from the house to the river (pond, lake, etc.). Collapse of fish populations due to pollution and over fishing. The list goes on...
pick one random day like this to prove a point you KNOW is bullshit
Careful, you might stumble upon the concept of humor and sarcasm. We certainly can't have that now being that you live in a bastion of science and rationality and all...
BTW: did a snow plow run over your dog today? Lighten up a bit, you'll get along with people better. Also, I am kind of curious if you can explain Bachmann given that whole bastion thing...
Always eager to fight. Always quick to rush to the wrong conclusion. I was rather enjoying the 5 to 10C we had a couple weeks ago. Unfortunately we're back to business as usual and that pleasant weather is a faded memory. Oh, before I forget... *woosh*
I live in Minnesota. We're presently at -12C with a forecast low of -21C tonight. If this is what you call a warmer Earth you could have fooled me. However, I for one would very much welcome a warmer Minnesota--during the winter at any rate.
But now isn't the time to rest, this crap will come back around, always does. Keep watch on any major "must not fail, do it for the Children/Military", type bills. If it can't make it on its own it'll show up as a rider on one of those.
He might be a Luddite but you are an ignoramus. This is very much an "all your eggs in one basket" thing. Just because your files/service are spread across a grid doesn't mean much if someone cuts the wires to that grid. This is exactly what happened here with Megaupload. In this case the feds were the ones wielding the wire-cutters.
Of course they aren't the only ones who could snip the wires and this isn't much different from self-hosting your files from the perspective of the one having their files/service hosted. However, these cloud services are different in that unlike self-hosting, it isn't just one person, company, etc. using the basket. It's many, many different people and organizations all using the very same basket! This creates the potential for exponentially more harm should there be a security breach or a disaster/war/government shuts the service down. Instead of just one company losing their ability to function, it's hundreds if not thousands. It's just one switch to shut everyone down, one basket to upend and shatter its eggs on the floor.
However, you may wish to relocate somewhere that has a reasonable economy and fewer ill feelings towards the US or its citizens. Accordingly Brazil might be a better choice since it has traditionally given the finger to US extradition requests.
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Because we can only transfer money through "legitimate" channels to China. Waste of my tax dollars if ever there was one...
Probably, but if not them then another...
Signing it means nothing if not ratified by congress.
People have gone on vacation to Maui before as well but that doesn't stop everyone else from going. Why? Because it's gorgeous and a bloody good time. Same with building your own balloon to space projects.
Small claims is just that "small" as in usually capped somewhere around $5000. How is that going to pay for medical bills, replace a house, etc.. But beyond that and even if you could round up a thousand others. You're still talking in the low millions and hardly anything that would make a dent in profits let along hurt the company enough to make them care to spend the money necessary to mend their ways. Either way, why should remediation be where things are addressed? Why should we not be trying to prevent the harm in the first place? You know "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" type thing... Personally I'd rather my rivers not smell of refuse and burn in flames. I'd rather not get cancer from my drinking water, and asthma from the air I breath even if I can win millions in court.
What if a team of lawyers doesn't figure they can make a lot of money? Not every offender can be matched in such an easy straight line to specific damages to specific parties. Link a specific polluter of the drinking water to a person's cancer that showed up 10, 20 years later. Even if you could, perhaps the company is no longer in business. But why should they have to be exposed in the first place why not regulate and enforce those standards to prevent the pollution that led to the person's cancer. Even if the person wins a major settlement, (while battling cancer) that money isn't going to make things right. They still have cancer.
It's a big and complicated job that's near impossible to not make a mistake so lets not try. Lets leave the peasants to fend for themselves with corporations free to hurt whoever they feel like because a peasant would have a snowball's chance in hell of being able to afford justice in court. Brilliant, simply brilliant.
Can you pay for the proof of that destruction in court?
Tell me Trout, do you have the money to pay for a crack team of lawyers that are a match for or better than those of the corporation doing the polluting? Do you even have the money to pay for an average lawyer and expenses related to filing a suit against said corporation. What would such a lawsuit do to you financially--especially if you lost and were forced to pay for the legal defense of the corporation? Tell me, how about your job, are they flexible enough with your schedule to let you go off for weeks/months to wage these legal campaigns?
The EPA exists to protect citizens for whom collectively pooled their resources to pay them to ensure they never have damages in the first place. Businesses in exchange are provided a uniform and known standard that permits them to operate with confidence provided they adhere to that standard.
It's really bloody obvious and simple. That minuscule damage and similarly small redress each company/person must pay is most certainly insufficient to motivate them to stop polluting. This of course assumes that someone was even able to successfully wage a successful legal action against them in the first place. The expense of which would generally out weight the amount won in compensation. The only way in which to prevent damaging pollution is to make that pollution illegal and provide a reasonable means by which to monitor for violators. Libertarians call it "regulation" and big-brother. The reality is that it is but an extension of the framework that deals other acts considered immoral by society like theft, murder, rape, etc..
Just because government is corruptible, just because government doesn't always get it right doesn't mean that you throw the baby out with the bath water. You think corporations run roughshod over citizens now with government being the instrument they puppet to get their way. What do you think will happen when there is no one to stand in the way but Mr. Joe Public, and his $40,000/year income from which he must pay for a lawyer?
In favor of? No. At least not in spirit. Most people are not consciously and intentionally evil, just thoughtless, inconsiderate, and generally self-serving. However, in practice the outcome is the same
.
Tell me, with out government overseers who the hell would have the pockets to fight and enforce justice? I can tell you that not one of those people living near that meat packing plant. Tell me, if someone in Minnesota dumps industrial waste into the Mississippi river, who would protect the residents of Baton Rouge from the resultant carcinogenic drinking water? What pockets would pay for justice? How would its residents make Acme Inc. stop?
Hmm. Bloody Libertarians, all "we the people" and "all praise to our founding fathers, their God guided hands, and their immaculate document." What'd we do with that document? We discovered that it dealt with damn near nothing of the problems the nation was and would face. So, we amended the hell out of it because it was anything but complete and still we had/have innumerable problems as society and its issues evolve. Our history--well before we established any kind of oversight--was fraught with a great deal of problems. Limiting thing to just water ways still includes and is certainly not limited to farmers damming up streams for irrigation to the detriment of their neighbors farther down. Mercury dumped without care into waterways for the extraction of gold. Manufacturing dumping whatever waste they saw fit into waterways to the point rivers actually caught ablaze. Septic systems amounting to little better than a pipe running from the house to the river (pond, lake, etc.). Collapse of fish populations due to pollution and over fishing. The list goes on...
Well, how about any of these reasons:
pick one random day like this to prove a point you KNOW is bullshit
Careful, you might stumble upon the concept of humor and sarcasm. We certainly can't have that now being that you live in a bastion of science and rationality and all...
BTW: did a snow plow run over your dog today? Lighten up a bit, you'll get along with people better. Also, I am kind of curious if you can explain Bachmann given that whole bastion thing...
Always eager to fight. Always quick to rush to the wrong conclusion. I was rather enjoying the 5 to 10C we had a couple weeks ago. Unfortunately we're back to business as usual and that pleasant weather is a faded memory. Oh, before I forget... *woosh*
I live in Minnesota. We're presently at -12C with a forecast low of -21C tonight. If this is what you call a warmer Earth you could have fooled me. However, I for one would very much welcome a warmer Minnesota--during the winter at any rate.
But now isn't the time to rest, this crap will come back around, always does. Keep watch on any major "must not fail, do it for the Children/Military", type bills. If it can't make it on its own it'll show up as a rider on one of those.
Now there's a blast form the past... Good compression though.
Now what do you bet that the AC logged in to mod me troll...?
Touche.
Ireland is part of the western empire. If you're truly interesting enough to pursue they'll get you back wrapped in a pretty bow.
He might be a Luddite but you are an ignoramus. This is very much an "all your eggs in one basket" thing. Just because your files/service are spread across a grid doesn't mean much if someone cuts the wires to that grid. This is exactly what happened here with Megaupload. In this case the feds were the ones wielding the wire-cutters.
Of course they aren't the only ones who could snip the wires and this isn't much different from self-hosting your files from the perspective of the one having their files/service hosted. However, these cloud services are different in that unlike self-hosting, it isn't just one person, company, etc. using the basket. It's many, many different people and organizations all using the very same basket! This creates the potential for exponentially more harm should there be a security breach or a disaster/war/government shuts the service down. Instead of just one company losing their ability to function, it's hundreds if not thousands. It's just one switch to shut everyone down, one basket to upend and shatter its eggs on the floor.
Should you happen to be a corporation with say 100+ employees I'd say that's pretty likely on any particular day.
I think he mentioned something about "self-respecting"...
However, you may wish to relocate somewhere that has a reasonable economy and fewer ill feelings towards the US or its citizens. Accordingly Brazil might be a better choice since it has traditionally given the finger to US extradition requests.