I think it's great when some spoiled child who didn't get corrected enough by his/her parents decides that any rule he/she doesn't like constitutes a 'nanny state'.
You want logic and the truth? Okay, that vehicle you're in control of is several tonnes of mass, and is traveling at a speed that is twice what you're wired to respond to... at a tame 50. 75? Well that's 3 times faster than you can handle (hey, this is biology, not make-an-asshole's-ego-biggerology, get over it) but since you feel all butthurt when you're told that you're endangering others for NO GOOD REASON (if you're late, you should have left earlier, like the rest of us) you actually got defensive enough to imply that police enforcing the law is always bad.
And as far as guns go, I myself (without any police help, thank you) have found that sitting on the porch with a shotgun and yelling warnings to drivers who have your same overdeveloped sense of entitlement really DOES work to slow them down, especially after a few 'test shots' (into a safe and uninhabited area, of course, not AT the car).
In conclusion, I'd say that if you're neither sane nor mature enough to handle a multi-ton machine designed to add massive amounts of energy to itself and then be controlled by a human at speeds in multiples of what we're biologically wired to handle, then stay the fuck off the road, for all of our sakes.
Oh, and one final thing, if the kind of freedom libertarians like you (not all libertarians, just the ego-driven ones) pine over finally come to fruition, you and the rest of the selfish damn-the-consequences spoiled brats would be put down in the first couple weeks, for the good of the community, by those of us that understand that sometimes freedom means checking your actions in order to not do unnecessary damage.
My Visa bank card (here in the the U.S.) is attached to both a checking account and a savings account. When I use it as a credit card, the money comes out of checking, when I used it as debit, savings.
It also acts as an ATM card. The ATM function and the debit function require a PIN, not so for the credit function.
And let us not forget packet radio. Hell, I bet I could coax a handshake out of 2 big LED flashlights and 2 telescopes from a good distance. Yep, being that there are open source versions of network stacks, the internet is here to stay.
Streaming HD media might be out of the question, but (encrypted) text-only communications is forever out of the bottle.
Read conservative literature. They have been involved in what they call a "culture war" for at LEAST the better part of 3 decades. Wars have teams too, the biggest difference between wars and sports being the amount of blood you're willing to spill and what happens to the losers. The strangest part is that even though they openly discuss this culture war, many people who fall under the U.S. definition of 'liberals' (but not ONLY liberals) don't even realize they are up against an organized opponent in a declared war.
People in your own country have declared war on you. I know it's you in particular (though you are certainly not alone) simply because of your reaction to the "our team" mindtrash. Hey, it's me too, for exactly the same reason. You don't have to be a liberal to be the enemy, you just have to be repulsed. These conservative warriors are PAST the 'covert propaganda' phase and well into the 'overt propaganda' phase. Reading their literature, and noting certain memes that are repeated (liberals are at LEAST terrorist sympathizers and enablers, liberalism is a mental disorder, liberals want to see the U.S. destroyed, liberals are pushing for Big Brother type Authoritarianism, etc.) I cannot help but speculate that perhaps the ideological ringleaders are preparing for yet another 'escalation'.
I mean, they're bound to be vulnerable to one of the umpteen bazillion flaws found within almost any complex computer system.
Not that I encourage such a behavior, but hey, we ARE talking about augmenting (or at least mimicking) an already illegal activity.
But way back to the topic; I'm not a big music fan, oh I listen to music on occasion and certainly have preferences, including favorites, but I'm no fanboy. I know the name Radiohead, and from the way I've heard them described, there's a good chance I'd like them. I've heard Metallica before (and had quite a few fanboy friends), and they're okay (I like their old stuff, nice sound). Both of these companies have had their name tossed around the internet for related but entirely different things. Since it's quite rare that I buy music, when I DO get the urge for some new aural feast, one of those bands is going on my 'check this out' list, the other has already been stricken from any chance of me buying music.
Seems like there might be some money to be made or lost in this newfangled 'Downloading Music' thing.
Now, I know what you're saying... "But neomunk, why should we give two shits about what you're saying if it's so very rare for you to buy music?" My answer is that I'm a good case to use when pointing out what kind of PR the band (label, genre, whatever) is getting outside of the industry's spin machine. I surf the web, I read the headlines, and I am influenced... just like that.
Yep, I'm sure of it now, there is definitely some money to be made with this 'Download Music' thing.
I was with you up to the point where you stepped right off the cliff of reason and landed in a big pile of 'foolish'...
...kill a bunch of religious fanatics who were armed to the teeth...
Everything you said up to this point (and in your final paragraph) made perfect sense, and then you go and make it seem okay to murder people for doing things EXPLICITLY PROTECTED IN THE CONSTITUTION.
I suggest that you stop your big-D flag waving, and step that 1% further to realizing that Democrats are just another iteration of the same fist, the only difference being a satin glove. Bill Clinton was just another authoritarian shitstain, though not as organized in his bastardry as Bush. Those people at Waco were murdered, and you justify that by pointing out that they were exercising their rights? Smells too much like Team Spirit to me.
You're right. I suggest we just burn all the books that we find offensive. Oh, that's too hard to agree upon you say, well I bet you'd be happy if we just burned all the books YOU found offensive.
Then we wouldn't have to worry about tracking down everyone who checks out the Terrorist Cookbook, and you can still feel safe!
Ooooo, swing and a miss. Not trying to troll here, but take a look at the historical period of the U.S. colloquially known as the "Wild West". You'll find that size can actually be a flaw, as you make a bigger target, must eat more (and without cops, getting food is going to be far more difficult), and are usually (not always, of course) slower than that little wiry guy in the corner with the nervous twitch and fingers on his pistols.
Yessir, firearms are the great equalizer as far as might-makes-right is concerned. Mind you, there might be some truth to the "don't bring a rifle to a heavy machine gun fight" argument, so nothing is absolute.
I took it (the word "justified") in the context of a judicial decision on the matter... as in the "official status" of the officer's conduct after whatever review process was applied.
Okay, we're CLOSE to the same page, and I think I can bring us there by adding that if I'm renting from you, and there's evidence of a leak from my (your) kitchen my wife's underwear drawer is utterly off limits (barring foolishness like cabinets built into the walls with pipes behind them).
Reasonable is a hard word to define on paper, but can USUALLY (that word is important) be spotted in real-life circumstances. Being that the original article is light on details, it's hard to tell if rifling through the DB was a legitimate part of the tech support, but from the wording it appears that the original author does not think so. And (to go back to our analogy) if I -DO- catch you perusing my wife's panties while my kitchen sink is leaking, 'agree to disagree' isn't going to cut it, neither is 'well it's MY house'.
I wouldn't be arguing with you if EULAs were on the outside of the box, but they aren't. They are NOT offered up as part of the purchase agreement until AFTER the contract has been negotiated and all parties have been satisfied.
Seriously, if you and I sign a contract (let's say you're buying my car) and you pay me, I then hand you the title and keys and walk away. If after you get into the car there is a long list of fine-print legalese (that, of course, you were unable to read before buying the car) stating, among many other irrelevant provisions, that you my not operate your new vehicle during MY preferred driving times of 10 AM - 10 PM, you would find that to be an acceptable part of the contract? Would it be okay if I taped the list to the gearshifter and to the steering wheel (so that to operate the vehicle you must remove it) with a note saying that removal of the note constituted agreement with the terms?
Of course not.
Part 2: What consideration am I getting for this "new and improved" SECOND contract I have to agree to before I can use the product I just purchased? The ability to use the product I just purchased? Does Dole have the ability to dictate to you the conditions under which you may eat the banana you just bought at the Quick Stop? What possible reason would I have to limit my rights (yep, I have the right to use anything I own in any way that does not violate local law, even if you don't like it) without getting anything for my troubles? I'm not a loyal enough lapdog to consider 'warm fuzzies' to be adequate consideration, sorry.
As for agreeing to the "contract" by clicking that button. Nope, I didn't read or agree to anything, I just randomly (okay, not randomly, but as part of a learned causal pattern) whacked at -MY- machine until the software I just purchased worked right, like hitting your lawnmower with the wrench until it works, but more reliable. I don't take orders from my computer, just like I don't take them from my car (and I lost a water pump once because of that, but it's my right to blow my waterpump too).
In short, bringing up additional clauses to the contract I've already agreed to is just not going to work. I just refuse the contract (without reading it) and look again at my screen... the program isn't working right (right being defined by me, the user)... time for some home-rolled tech support!
If I'm feelin' frisky, I could go into my hex editor and change the magical number on my harddrive that signifies a comparison-jump to one that signifies a simple jump... or change the text of the button to read "EULAs are Foolishness" instead of "I Agree". I could also write a tiny program to randomly click my desktop area and run it after loading a EULA screen, or does running other unrelated programs on my computer violate the EULA offerer's rights somehow?
Those fancy methods are too much work though. As a home-rolled tech support kind of guy, I can tell you that the BUG (that the company keeps claiming is a 'feature') preventing my software from working right can be easily fixed by clicking that 'I Agree' button. What are you agreeing to? Nothing (who knows what someone HOPES you're agreeing to, it's irrelevant), as lying to your own computer is perfectly legal, normal and sometimes even necessary for it to work correctly (ever use a proxy? then you've lied to your computer). This is an instance of the latter, but just like any other workaround for poorly written software, whatever you have to do to get the software you already bought to work is your business.
By the way, reading that last paragraph implies that you have accepted technical support from me, please make a $500 donation to the Electronic Frontier Foundation in the name of 'neomunk'.
The way you feel after reading that is the exact some feeling I get when faced with a EULA. If you're anything like me, that feeling would be adequately summarized by the phrase 'Fuck Off'. This is obviously the correct and sane response.
Soooooo what you're saying is that if I like to play "housecall" with my wife playing the part of Nurse Ratchet, I should STFU about it on slashdot... Fair enough.:-)
Silly me, and here I've actually been bringing the cars I test drive back to the lot, and *gasp* PAYING for the ones I want instead of just driving home with the car knowing that the law is 90% in favor of my decision.
You do realize that in your analogy, you went to a doctor with a headache and ended up with a camera shoved up your ass WITHOUT ANY FURTHER INPUT FROM YOU, and you're implying that that's just peachy. This is, of course, ludicrous in the extreme, and serves only to hammer home the point you're opposing, quite effectively actually. I would have chosen the exact analogy you used to drive the opposing point.
I'm actually pretty sure that the hypothetical patient would be very well compensated by the doctor after the malpractice and sexual harassment suits were all said and done.
Maybe it's the (hypothetical) nude pictures of myself and my wife and our sex-partners that I like to leave all over my house that I don't want to be seen.
To put this into perspective, I'll put it in a language most of you should be able to understand... If you're not hiding something in your rectum, you shouldn't have any reason to oppose an hourly wrist-deep inspection of that area, right? That sounds reasonable too, from a certain point of view.
Slashdot Mirror
I think it's great when some spoiled child who didn't get corrected enough by his/her parents decides that any rule he/she doesn't like constitutes a 'nanny state'.
You want logic and the truth? Okay, that vehicle you're in control of is several tonnes of mass, and is traveling at a speed that is twice what you're wired to respond to... at a tame 50. 75? Well that's 3 times faster than you can handle (hey, this is biology, not make-an-asshole's-ego-biggerology, get over it) but since you feel all butthurt when you're told that you're endangering others for NO GOOD REASON (if you're late, you should have left earlier, like the rest of us) you actually got defensive enough to imply that police enforcing the law is always bad.
And as far as guns go, I myself (without any police help, thank you) have found that sitting on the porch with a shotgun and yelling warnings to drivers who have your same overdeveloped sense of entitlement really DOES work to slow them down, especially after a few 'test shots' (into a safe and uninhabited area, of course, not AT the car).
In conclusion, I'd say that if you're neither sane nor mature enough to handle a multi-ton machine designed to add massive amounts of energy to itself and then be controlled by a human at speeds in multiples of what we're biologically wired to handle, then stay the fuck off the road, for all of our sakes.
Oh, and one final thing, if the kind of freedom libertarians like you (not all libertarians, just the ego-driven ones) pine over finally come to fruition, you and the rest of the selfish damn-the-consequences spoiled brats would be put down in the first couple weeks, for the good of the community, by those of us that understand that sometimes freedom means checking your actions in order to not do unnecessary damage.
My Visa bank card (here in the the U.S.) is attached to both a checking account and a savings account. When I use it as a credit card, the money comes out of checking, when I used it as debit, savings.
It also acts as an ATM card. The ATM function and the debit function require a PIN, not so for the credit function.
Like putting too much air in a balloon! :-D
And let us not forget packet radio. Hell, I bet I could coax a handshake out of 2 big LED flashlights and 2 telescopes from a good distance. Yep, being that there are open source versions of network stacks, the internet is here to stay.
Streaming HD media might be out of the question, but (encrypted) text-only communications is forever out of the bottle.
Read conservative literature. They have been involved in what they call a "culture war" for at LEAST the better part of 3 decades. Wars have teams too, the biggest difference between wars and sports being the amount of blood you're willing to spill and what happens to the losers. The strangest part is that even though they openly discuss this culture war, many people who fall under the U.S. definition of 'liberals' (but not ONLY liberals) don't even realize they are up against an organized opponent in a declared war.
People in your own country have declared war on you. I know it's you in particular (though you are certainly not alone) simply because of your reaction to the "our team" mindtrash. Hey, it's me too, for exactly the same reason. You don't have to be a liberal to be the enemy, you just have to be repulsed. These conservative warriors are PAST the 'covert propaganda' phase and well into the 'overt propaganda' phase. Reading their literature, and noting certain memes that are repeated (liberals are at LEAST terrorist sympathizers and enablers, liberalism is a mental disorder, liberals want to see the U.S. destroyed, liberals are pushing for Big Brother type Authoritarianism, etc.) I cannot help but speculate that perhaps the ideological ringleaders are preparing for yet another 'escalation'.
She's the chick that Bob is seeing behind Eve's back, if I understand the situation correctly.
TicketMaster hacks.
I mean, they're bound to be vulnerable to one of the umpteen bazillion flaws found within almost any complex computer system.
Not that I encourage such a behavior, but hey, we ARE talking about augmenting (or at least mimicking) an already illegal activity.
But way back to the topic; I'm not a big music fan, oh I listen to music on occasion and certainly have preferences, including favorites, but I'm no fanboy. I know the name Radiohead, and from the way I've heard them described, there's a good chance I'd like them. I've heard Metallica before (and had quite a few fanboy friends), and they're okay (I like their old stuff, nice sound). Both of these companies have had their name tossed around the internet for related but entirely different things. Since it's quite rare that I buy music, when I DO get the urge for some new aural feast, one of those bands is going on my 'check this out' list, the other has already been stricken from any chance of me buying music.
Seems like there might be some money to be made or lost in this newfangled 'Downloading Music' thing.
Now, I know what you're saying... "But neomunk, why should we give two shits about what you're saying if it's so very rare for you to buy music?" My answer is that I'm a good case to use when pointing out what kind of PR the band (label, genre, whatever) is getting outside of the industry's spin machine. I surf the web, I read the headlines, and I am influenced... just like that.
Yep, I'm sure of it now, there is definitely some money to be made with this 'Download Music' thing.
Could you take that Republican dick out of your mouth before you speak? You were mumbling.
Ahh yes, another Evangelical Atheist pointing out the "One True Way". Hypocrisy FTW!
I, for one, welcome our new IBM Windows overlords.
What? They've ALMOST caught up to a competitor in the field? That's the most excellent example of innovation I've heard outside of a press release.
I was with you up to the point where you stepped right off the cliff of reason and landed in a big pile of 'foolish'...
...kill a bunch of religious fanatics who were armed to the teeth...
Everything you said up to this point (and in your final paragraph) made perfect sense, and then you go and make it seem okay to murder people for doing things EXPLICITLY PROTECTED IN THE CONSTITUTION.
I suggest that you stop your big-D flag waving, and step that 1% further to realizing that Democrats are just another iteration of the same fist, the only difference being a satin glove. Bill Clinton was just another authoritarian shitstain, though not as organized in his bastardry as Bush. Those people at Waco were murdered, and you justify that by pointing out that they were exercising their rights? Smells too much like Team Spirit to me.
You're right. I suggest we just burn all the books that we find offensive. Oh, that's too hard to agree upon you say, well I bet you'd be happy if we just burned all the books YOU found offensive.
Then we wouldn't have to worry about tracking down everyone who checks out the Terrorist Cookbook, and you can still feel safe!
Ooooo, swing and a miss. Not trying to troll here, but take a look at the historical period of the U.S. colloquially known as the "Wild West". You'll find that size can actually be a flaw, as you make a bigger target, must eat more (and without cops, getting food is going to be far more difficult), and are usually (not always, of course) slower than that little wiry guy in the corner with the nervous twitch and fingers on his pistols.
Yessir, firearms are the great equalizer as far as might-makes-right is concerned. Mind you, there might be some truth to the "don't bring a rifle to a heavy machine gun fight" argument, so nothing is absolute.
I took it (the word "justified") in the context of a judicial decision on the matter... as in the "official status" of the officer's conduct after whatever review process was applied.
I could be wrong though.
Doesn't Underrated give Karma too? That's what I've been using to give the funniest (only the funniest) posts actual 'spendable' Karma.
Hey, if all you have is a hammer, but people keep tossing you nails...
No, but it IS starting to become trendy to clench your cheeks while they're fucking YOU, so there you go....
Okay, we're CLOSE to the same page, and I think I can bring us there by adding that if I'm renting from you, and there's evidence of a leak from my (your) kitchen my wife's underwear drawer is utterly off limits (barring foolishness like cabinets built into the walls with pipes behind them).
Reasonable is a hard word to define on paper, but can USUALLY (that word is important) be spotted in real-life circumstances. Being that the original article is light on details, it's hard to tell if rifling through the DB was a legitimate part of the tech support, but from the wording it appears that the original author does not think so. And (to go back to our analogy) if I -DO- catch you perusing my wife's panties while my kitchen sink is leaking, 'agree to disagree' isn't going to cut it, neither is 'well it's MY house'.
I wouldn't be arguing with you if EULAs were on the outside of the box, but they aren't. They are NOT offered up as part of the purchase agreement until AFTER the contract has been negotiated and all parties have been satisfied.
Seriously, if you and I sign a contract (let's say you're buying my car) and you pay me, I then hand you the title and keys and walk away. If after you get into the car there is a long list of fine-print legalese (that, of course, you were unable to read before buying the car) stating, among many other irrelevant provisions, that you my not operate your new vehicle during MY preferred driving times of 10 AM - 10 PM, you would find that to be an acceptable part of the contract? Would it be okay if I taped the list to the gearshifter and to the steering wheel (so that to operate the vehicle you must remove it) with a note saying that removal of the note constituted agreement with the terms?
Of course not.
Part 2: What consideration am I getting for this "new and improved" SECOND contract I have to agree to before I can use the product I just purchased? The ability to use the product I just purchased? Does Dole have the ability to dictate to you the conditions under which you may eat the banana you just bought at the Quick Stop? What possible reason would I have to limit my rights (yep, I have the right to use anything I own in any way that does not violate local law, even if you don't like it) without getting anything for my troubles? I'm not a loyal enough lapdog to consider 'warm fuzzies' to be adequate consideration, sorry.
As for agreeing to the "contract" by clicking that button. Nope, I didn't read or agree to anything, I just randomly (okay, not randomly, but as part of a learned causal pattern) whacked at -MY- machine until the software I just purchased worked right, like hitting your lawnmower with the wrench until it works, but more reliable. I don't take orders from my computer, just like I don't take them from my car (and I lost a water pump once because of that, but it's my right to blow my waterpump too).
In short, bringing up additional clauses to the contract I've already agreed to is just not going to work. I just refuse the contract (without reading it) and look again at my screen... the program isn't working right (right being defined by me, the user)... time for some home-rolled tech support!
If I'm feelin' frisky, I could go into my hex editor and change the magical number on my harddrive that signifies a comparison-jump to one that signifies a simple jump... or change the text of the button to read "EULAs are Foolishness" instead of "I Agree". I could also write a tiny program to randomly click my desktop area and run it after loading a EULA screen, or does running other unrelated programs on my computer violate the EULA offerer's rights somehow?
Those fancy methods are too much work though. As a home-rolled tech support kind of guy, I can tell you that the BUG (that the company keeps claiming is a 'feature') preventing my software from working right can be easily fixed by clicking that 'I Agree' button. What are you agreeing to? Nothing (who knows what someone HOPES you're agreeing to, it's irrelevant), as lying to your own computer is perfectly legal, normal and sometimes even necessary for it to work correctly (ever use a proxy? then you've lied to your computer). This is an instance of the latter, but just like any other workaround for poorly written software, whatever you have to do to get the software you already bought to work is your business.
By the way, reading that last paragraph implies that you have accepted technical support from me, please make a $500 donation to the Electronic Frontier Foundation in the name of 'neomunk'.
The way you feel after reading that is the exact some feeling I get when faced with a EULA. If you're anything like me, that feeling would be adequately summarized by the phrase 'Fuck Off'. This is obviously the correct and sane response.
Just as with the who
Soooooo what you're saying is that if I like to play "housecall" with my wife playing the part of Nurse Ratchet, I should STFU about it on slashdot... Fair enough. :-)
I stand humbled. Thank you for the clarification.
possession is nine-tenths of the law.
Silly me, and here I've actually been bringing the cars I test drive back to the lot, and *gasp* PAYING for the ones I want instead of just driving home with the car knowing that the law is 90% in favor of my decision.
You do realize that in your analogy, you went to a doctor with a headache and ended up with a camera shoved up your ass WITHOUT ANY FURTHER INPUT FROM YOU, and you're implying that that's just peachy. This is, of course, ludicrous in the extreme, and serves only to hammer home the point you're opposing, quite effectively actually. I would have chosen the exact analogy you used to drive the opposing point.
I'm actually pretty sure that the hypothetical patient would be very well compensated by the doctor after the malpractice and sexual harassment suits were all said and done.
Maybe it's the (hypothetical) nude pictures of myself and my wife and our sex-partners that I like to leave all over my house that I don't want to be seen.
To put this into perspective, I'll put it in a language most of you should be able to understand... If you're not hiding something in your rectum, you shouldn't have any reason to oppose an hourly wrist-deep inspection of that area, right? That sounds reasonable too, from a certain point of view.