I don't know how this might have played out in this situation, but over the past couple days I have read forum posts from Fire Chiefs in other parts of the country that say this is an issue.
A fire departments Insurance is only in place when they are responding to emergencies in their jurisdiction or when responding to legitimate requests for mutual aid into other jurisdictions.
Some of the Insurance Carriers are taking a hard line about subscription areas or areas without fire protection districts. If the fire department responds into areas without fire protection, the Insurance companies are refusing insurance claims for injuries or equipment damage because the fire department is covered in their own jurisdiction only. Subscribers in subscription areas are considered as being under their jurisdiction. Non-subscribers are out of district.
These Fire Chiefs are struggling with the moral dilemma this puts them under. The only way around it is for them to have a Contract or Memorandum of Understanding with the County that all the homes/businesses in the subscription area are part of their jurisdiction. Some counties have been reluctant to sign such agreements.
I am glad I fight fire for a municipal fire department. We have hydrants, we have big pumps and we have short driving distances.
Even as a volunteer department, we are typically on scene within 6 minutes of the 911 call. Which is damn good for a volunteer department
We mutual aid into rural areas and those departments have a heck of a time.
1. No hydrants, they have to shuttle water with Water Tenders. Almost never enough water to really hit the fire hard.
2. Long travel times. It isn't unusual to have 15-20 minute response times. By the time they get on scene the fire can be 2x-3x bigger and hotter than it would have been with a 6 min response
3. Narrow driveways, low weight limit bridges, poor access etc make getting to fire even harder.
More than 1 rural fire department has a tongue in cheek slogan that says " xxx fire department, saving foundations since 19xx"
Contracts taken under duress are hard to enforce in Court.
This community had already tried the "bill them $500 for a response if they didn't pay in advance route" and it was not effective. Less than 50% of the people paid and the lawyers told them they would have to go to Court to collect on the non-payers. Once word of that got around, no one paid the $500 bill.
This fee was widely known. The homeowner received a bill in July and a follow-up call informing him of the consequences of non-payment.
It isn't the Job of the Fire Fighters of South Fulton to protect people outside of their community. Their Job is protect their town. They offered to extend fire protection to people who didn't have a fire department of their own for a modest fee. This homeowner lived someplace that does not have a fire department and intentional made the decision to not contract to get it.
"Why not put out the fire and then bill him for the $75?"
But to just stand there and watch it burn? That should be criminal, what if people died? I think the firefighters should go to jail. What has his world come to when the people sworn to serve and protect decide not to? Sounds like anarchy.
When did the firefighters of South Fulton Kentucky ever swear to serve and protect the people of Obion County Kentucky? They have no legal responsibility to protect anyone outside of their jurisdiction. The subscription fee puts them in their jurisdiction. No subscription fee, no jurisdiction.
And honestly, 90% of the Volunteer Fire Departments in my area of the country don't take any kind of Oath. I didn't take one when I was an EMT either.
There is a lot more information about this out there from other sources
According to the Mayor of the Town involved
1. The policy is if there is human life at risk, the department responds and rescues, but only fights the fire enough to effect the rescue 2. This person did not "forget" to pay. The fire department called him in August to tell him that they had not received his payment and he would not receive fire protection until he did 3. In an earlier interview, the guy said "I knew I didn't pay, but I thought they would come anyway". Now in interviews he says he forgot 4. Fire Service should be tax based, but in Tennessee, to put a new tax in place, like a fire protection district, requires a positive vote in favor of the tax. For 20 years, this County has regularly voted against such a tax. 5. The Community of South Fulton, who's fire department responded, is located in Kentucky. So not only do you have a city fire department responding out of their protection area, they are responding into another STATE.
I hate dealing with subscription districts. One of the reasons why they still survive in my area is that we don't have authority to set and enforce fire codes there. Keeping the Ebil Goberment out of their lives is the goal of some of the people in the area.
That said, I think the solution to handling non-payers is to inform their Homeowners Insurance and/or mortgage holder about the requirement. Guarenteed if those people knew about the situation they would make sure the fee got paid.
My Dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer's last year. He refuses to take his meds. He doesn't think he has it. Everyone around him can see it. It is a horrible horrible disease
Actually, the ruling is more subtle than the news media can understand
The Obama administration did not provide a defense on whether the wiretaps are legal or illegal. The Administrations defense was this was a "State Secrets" case and that neither the Judge or the Plaintiff could have access to the information to determine the legality or illegality.
The Judge ruled that the State's Secrets doctrine didn't apply. Therefore because the Administration didn't provide any additional defense, he upheld the Plaintiffs allegations as factual, and ruled in their favor.
That isn't the same thing are ruling that the wiretaps or the program in general were illegal. It is more closely akin to a failure to appear summary judgement.
Give this man a cookie. In 1994 the REA was abolished and replaced with the Rural Utilities Service. They are most definately trying to justify their existence by trying to be involved in Federal broadband initiatives.
Sorry about that. I'm in Idaho, in a town that wasn't settled by Mormons
I know the type of people you are talking about though. Most of them would be nuts about their reliegion if they were Baptist, Moslem, or Budhist though.
Mormons are "bibical literalists". We believe bible to be true "as far as it was translated correctly".
Most LDS people I know, believe that the universe was created using some unknown process that took an undeterminate amount of time. The 6 "days" could be retranslated in to 6 stages of creation.
From the founding of our church, we have been instructed to learn as much about science as we can.
I would suggest that women are not 2nd class citizens in the LDS Church. It is the older single men who are 2nd class citizens. I won't go into the details, but because I am not married, I am not allowed to serve in any position of authority in the Church.
Even better, the possibility exists now, because of this experiment, that the nuclear power plant to power your space ship, could remain on Earth, and we use this Quantum Energy transmission technology to transmit the power to the spaceship. Want to do some heave acceleration or deceleration, bring another power plant on line. Fusion power become feasible halfway through the mission? No problem, build the new plant, put it on line, and retire the nuclear plant.
Slashdot Mirror
I don't know how this might have played out in this situation, but over the past couple days I have read forum posts from Fire Chiefs in other parts of the country that say this is an issue.
A fire departments Insurance is only in place when they are responding to emergencies in their jurisdiction or when responding to legitimate requests for mutual aid into other jurisdictions.
Some of the Insurance Carriers are taking a hard line about subscription areas or areas without fire protection districts. If the fire department responds into areas without fire protection, the Insurance companies are refusing insurance claims for injuries or equipment damage because the fire department is covered in their own jurisdiction only. Subscribers in subscription areas are considered as being under their jurisdiction. Non-subscribers are out of district.
These Fire Chiefs are struggling with the moral dilemma this puts them under. The only way around it is for them to have a Contract or Memorandum of Understanding with the County that all the homes/businesses in the subscription area are part of their jurisdiction. Some counties have been reluctant to sign such agreements.
don't know if it is 100% true, but I have heard that similar situations have played out before.
But now the contract is signed under Duress which can get it invalidated in court.
I am glad I fight fire for a municipal fire department. We have hydrants, we have big pumps and we have short driving distances.
Even as a volunteer department, we are typically on scene within 6 minutes of the 911 call. Which is damn good for a volunteer department
We mutual aid into rural areas and those departments have a heck of a time.
1. No hydrants, they have to shuttle water with Water Tenders. Almost never enough water to really hit the fire hard.
2. Long travel times. It isn't unusual to have 15-20 minute response times. By the time they get on scene the fire can be 2x-3x bigger and hotter than it would have been with a 6 min response
3. Narrow driveways, low weight limit bridges, poor access etc make getting to fire even harder.
More than 1 rural fire department has a tongue in cheek slogan that says " xxx fire department, saving foundations since 19xx"
Contracts taken under duress are hard to enforce in Court.
This community had already tried the "bill them $500 for a response if they didn't pay in advance route" and it was not effective. Less than 50% of the people paid and the lawyers told them they would have to go to Court to collect on the non-payers. Once word of that got around, no one paid the $500 bill.
This fee was widely known. The homeowner received a bill in July and a follow-up call informing him of the consequences of non-payment.
It isn't the Job of the Fire Fighters of South Fulton to protect people outside of their community. Their Job is protect their town. They offered to extend fire protection to people who didn't have a fire department of their own for a modest fee. This homeowner lived someplace that does not have a fire department and intentional made the decision to not contract to get it.
But you have a contract with them in advance.
Without the contract, they have to go to Court to prove the bill is legitimate.
Department used to try and charge non-subscribers $500 for responding. Less than 50% paid that bill. They would ignore a $1000 bill too.
Federal EMTALA law is the only reason why. They used to operate that way, if they existed at all.
"Why not put out the fire and then bill him for the $75?"
But to just stand there and watch it burn? That should be criminal, what if people died? I think the firefighters should go to jail. What has his world come to when the people sworn to serve and protect decide not to? Sounds like anarchy.
When did the firefighters of South Fulton Kentucky ever swear to serve and protect the people of Obion County Kentucky? They have no legal responsibility to protect anyone outside of their jurisdiction. The subscription fee puts them in their jurisdiction. No subscription fee, no jurisdiction.
And honestly, 90% of the Volunteer Fire Departments in my area of the country don't take any kind of Oath. I didn't take one when I was an EMT either.
South Fulton used to send out bills of $500 to non-payers for fire response. Less than 50% of the people paid that bill.
They realized that they would have to get a court order to collect the rest.
Subscription districts suck.
There is a lot more information about this out there from other sources
According to the Mayor of the Town involved
1. The policy is if there is human life at risk, the department responds and rescues, but only fights the fire enough to effect the rescue
2. This person did not "forget" to pay. The fire department called him in August to tell him that they had not received his payment and he would not receive fire protection until he did
3. In an earlier interview, the guy said "I knew I didn't pay, but I thought they would come anyway". Now in interviews he says he forgot
4. Fire Service should be tax based, but in Tennessee, to put a new tax in place, like a fire protection district, requires a positive vote in favor of the tax. For 20 years, this County has regularly voted against such a tax.
5. The Community of South Fulton, who's fire department responded, is located in Kentucky. So not only do you have a city fire department responding out of their protection area, they are responding into another STATE.
I hate dealing with subscription districts. One of the reasons why they still survive in my area is that we don't have authority to set and enforce fire codes there. Keeping the Ebil Goberment out of their lives is the goal of some of the people in the area.
That said, I think the solution to handling non-payers is to inform their Homeowners Insurance and/or mortgage holder about the requirement. Guarenteed if those people knew about the situation they would make sure the fee got paid.
The City of South Fulton doesn't have the authority to issue fines to people who don't live in their town.
My Dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer's last year. He refuses to take his meds. He doesn't think he has it. Everyone around him can see it. It is a horrible horrible disease
Actually, the ruling is more subtle than the news media can understand
The Obama administration did not provide a defense on whether the wiretaps are legal or illegal. The Administrations defense was this was a "State Secrets" case and that neither the Judge or the Plaintiff could have access to the information to determine the legality or illegality.
The Judge ruled that the State's Secrets doctrine didn't apply. Therefore because the Administration didn't provide any additional defense, he upheld the Plaintiffs allegations as factual, and ruled in their favor.
That isn't the same thing are ruling that the wiretaps or the program in general were illegal. It is more closely akin to a failure to appear summary judgement.
Give this man a cookie. In 1994 the REA was abolished and replaced with the Rural Utilities Service. They are most definately trying to justify their existence by trying to be involved in Federal broadband initiatives.
I wish I had mod points today. This is worth at least 5.
Sorry about that. I'm in Idaho, in a town that wasn't settled by Mormons
I know the type of people you are talking about though. Most of them would be nuts about their reliegion if they were Baptist, Moslem, or Budhist though.
depends on when you were a kid, and who your seminary teachers were.
I am 43. Most people in the Church accept evolution as a tool that God might use, but don't accept the evolution of Man.
Mormons are "bibical literalists". We believe bible to be true "as far as it was translated correctly".
Most LDS people I know, believe that the universe was created using some unknown process that took an undeterminate amount of time. The 6 "days" could be retranslated in to 6 stages of creation.
From the founding of our church, we have been instructed to learn as much about science as we can.
As a single LDS Man,
I would suggest that women are not 2nd class citizens in the LDS Church. It is the older single men who are 2nd class citizens. I won't go into the details, but because I am not married, I am not allowed to serve in any position of authority in the Church.
If you assume the natural gas comes from fossil sources, this isn't very green.
If it is powered from the gas from an Anaerobic Digester, it becomes a carbon neutral energy source. Very green.
Even better, the possibility exists now, because of this experiment, that the nuclear power plant to power your space ship, could remain on Earth, and we use this Quantum Energy transmission technology to transmit the power to the spaceship. Want to do some heave acceleration or deceleration, bring another power plant on line. Fusion power become feasible halfway through the mission? No problem, build the new plant, put it on line, and retire the nuclear plant.
No 5 Justices said that the rules we put in place 20 years ago to regulate speech done via the mechanism of a corporation were wrong
It was a reinterpretation 20 years ago that allowed these rules, and the Supreme Court said that was a mistake.
The mechanism that people use to assemble together to put out their message isn't important
Monsanto doesn't speak. People at Monsanto speak and those People have a freedom of speech.