That's the whole point, kill the inteligencia, when they're addicted to Netgrocer and Amazon.com, then blamo! Krush the web, with backhoes, trainwrecks and fertilizer bombs, and hot-chicks, don't forget the hot chicks, or leave me out of your strange plans. Time for the lawyers to meet the sea, baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aw quit yer whinning Thatcher-boy, England is the Leading Force for Americanism in Europe. You chums are the thin edge of a big American Wedge. Bwuhahahahahaha! No more baget's, its all MacDonaldland buscuits, with cheese*, egg and processed pseudo-bacon. Why else are you louts be run by Euro-skeptics & the new pansified wussed-out anti-socialist Labour Party.
* and by cheese, I mean velveta, sans any brei-style bacteria.
No way, first darn near every frog in Quebec needs to be deported back to france before I will ever allow those beer-swilling, Subject to the Queen, Quartering-loving, hosers in my country.
I totally agree with the author's characterization of the Debian Corporation, how dare they try to sell such a terribly outdated system. I mean, if it's unstable do I want to install it on my computer? Don't even go there girl.
If I owned stock in Debian Inc. I would be demanding that the CEO be fired. How can Bruce Peren's cash those big checks without shame?
Clearly Debian Inc. is nothing compared to the amazing TurboLinux or the powerful Servers I've built with Mandrake. No proper e-commerce site can be run without KDE as the desktop powering the whole thing!
What the hell does pro-gun have to do with anti-communism? I seem to remember communists quite liking guns.
http://www.whereisitatandwhencanIdownloadit.com
on
X Windows Must Die!
·
· Score: 1
Then exactly where can I download NeWS? Huh????????????????????????????????????
I like how everyone is pointing to non-existent alternate programs. Berlin seems neat, but it is no where near finished, all the others examples are dead technology from '91.
What fucking kind of university or company would employ this moron?
"You shouldn't have to put files in directories. The directories should reach out and take them."
The only horde Amazon.com is going to devolve into is a horde of bankrupted investors, when they finally go belly up.
It is nothing but breathless, computer-babble. The direct analog to psycho-babble. Just a lot of stupid, never to be implemented crap that is so generalized that eventually something vaugely similar might come to be. But this guy didn't think of any of this ideas himself, and I seriously doubt he will ever implement any of them.
Fuck the essay, write some code.
We'll know the system is working when a butterfly wanders into the in-box and (a few wingbeats later) flutters out - and in that brief interval the system has transcribed the creature's appearance and analyzed its way of moving, and the real butterfly leaves a shadow-butterfly behind. Some time soon afterward you'll be examining some tedious electronic document and a cyber-butterfly will appear at the bottom left corner of your screen (maybe a Hamearis lucina) and pause there, briefly hiding the text (and showing its neatly-folded rusty-chocolate wings like Victorian paisley, with orange eyespots) - and moments later will have crossed the screen and be gone.
What kind of dope is this guy smokeing and where can I get some?
If the pc world was Betel (or BePowerPC) rather than Wintel, we would all be bitching about evil Be Corp. Some people might find Be to be friendly and open(ish) now, but that's only because they have to act that way just to survive. Microsoft does not act the way they do because they are evil, that's just how you maximize profits for shareholders.
Shareholders are even worse engineers than managers. Software wants to be free, and so do I. For most of what I do, linux is great, and I can wait for a threaded IP stack, etc. However, I also admin HP-UX systems that fill 3 or 4 2meter racks, linux is not ready for that kind of hardware, but it will be soon. And when it is the world shall be debianized!
yeah, but saying the download time, or the cost of a cd equals not free is like saying "The Air isn't free, I mean you gotta breath! All that effort expanding my chest, and contracting it, shit.... whata rip, dude! If air was really free it should push its way down into my lungs, and then rush right out again."
yes I agree, and in addition I propose we create a Cyber UN to solve all of the worlds problems! Just subscribe to the website, and it would allow small independant countries to feed their starving peoples. At first it would not have mush memberstates, but it would grow with respect of the many pained pained pained people whom it helped.
Come on guys, stop acting like some petty Stallmanesque psychonauts, and start thinking about what's best for your users, and hence for Debian, because without users, you are as nothing. Reject the amendment, and include KDE in Debian. Maybe then we won't all think of you as a group of pointless obsessives on some illogical crusade against proprietary software.
Yeah, you losers, why don't you get with it and include MS Internet Explorer and the wonderful MS Office Assistant, he's so cute, and I miss him so!
Of course it is just a small part of microsoft's evil plan to destroy open source software by destroying humanity. No people, no open source! See, the extra RADIAtion caused by this so-called scheme will wither our balls. Once everyone's balls are appropriately withered and numb, the human race will become extinct, except for a cryogenically preserved Bill Gates who currently wears special asbestos Depends undergarments for protection. He will start again and create a new society by bio-engeneering his large harem of semi-intelligent llamas (they can do amazing things with VB).
Oh No, you're right, the whole sclemole is gonna go bust! Lets all run back screaming to Bill Gates! Hep me Massa Gates, I's done installed linux, an I'm in a worl' o' trouble!
Oh man, I like really have this idea in my head about how all of these geeky, nerdy kids are like totally taking the bread from the face of metallica and Mr. Lars, knows whats up and He's done the research, so watch out. Mr. Napster, we'll get you and all your minions at Napters Inc. You're globally ringed network cann't stop the power of Lars. Metallica RULLESZZZZZ. The thing you never think of is how that all hurts the little record company executives, I mean, do you know how much work they put into each of these totally crappy bands just to get one Metallica? Like 4 in 1, I mean, just how many crappy Megadeth's did our cool record exec's have to put up with until we bootlegged our way to the top and stuff. Don't take food from the tray of the record guys, they're like our best friends and fucking crap like that. They get top picks of the chicks after lars, the rest of the guys, then the roadies, and the bouncers, then the exec's man, just a little payback if you know what I mean, and I know you do! but you'd better be like a wolf in the forest because the chickens are roosting, and what not, because Metallica knows when you are sleeping and when you're downloading napster, so you'll go to jail, geek-boy, the nerd-ward of the big-house. You'll end up pulling cable, but it won't be cat5 that's for sure, mannnn! hahahaha. Wow!
RMS then resigned when MIT was charging people for the software that other MIT employees wrote - employees that MIT -paid- to write that software.
That is his personal choice. He is free to hold any ideas he wishes, if he thinks MIT was wrong, then he should quit or find some other way to protest. But if MIT thinks RMS is so amazing that they would change their actions based on his willingness to quit, then they must think his mere presence is a valueable comodity, maybe they're dumb and might over estimate his value maybe not. But that is MITs choice.
If I own a business then I am free to do with it whatever I want. I can piss it away, pay all my employee's generous pay, and require them to only show up one day a week, and never check to see if they actually produce anything. Or if I wanted to I could send all the profits to Greenpeace, it is the owners choice. However, the usual practice is for the owner to keep all the profits for himself. I certainly am free to do so, but then no one will work for free (the basic premise of the article). So, you have to compromise and pay employees a wage of somekind. Highly skilled people can easily pick and choose, so they get high wages and lots of perks. Perhaps one of the perks is the right to take your dog to the office or perhaps being able to work 5 or 10 hours per week on some OSS project.
This whole article reads to me like the author thinks writing OSS software can only be theft. But in addition to the very free-market wage-barganing above, it also leaves out how corporations can profitably use OSS. How having a complete OS saves money and development time. There are so many pieces of software that already exists, so many languages, development environments, that you can take advantage of and/or enclude in your product. The only cost for them, is that your product must also be free (libre NOT COST-FREE). You can still make a profit on your product (macmillian for instance). (You can even charge directly for your product, but because of libre how much you can get away with is more limited than a regular proprietory program)
I work for a company that buys redhat CDs, and tens of thousands of dollars in redhat training, and support (sadly because I prefer debian, in which case the money would be going to stormix or valinux/oreilly/SGI or elsewhere). Why do we spend this money instead of simply downloading it? Because we need access to people who really know a lot about particular programs, we cannot afford to staff a complete set of experts on every program (+ plus the kernel, drivers, etc) on the CD.
This is money well spent. We can redistribute most of the redhat CDs, (some non-free crap exists), we have source to pretty much everything, and we get the help we need, when we need it. To go to sun or microsoft, the cost would be much greater, we would not get the source, and we could never distribute any of the technology surrounding our products. When we buy from redhat, we buy specific things we need, when we bought from sun or microsoft we also were required to pay for something that cost essentially nothing to produce.
Years ago I bought a copy of MS Office, it cost me 600 bucks. It cost microsoft the cost of a carboard box, a cheaply printed book, a cd and a hologram to provide me MS Office. At most this packaging cost them 50 bucks to make, probably far less. Now the remaining 550 bucks of the charge was for a very undefined "development costs". Who knows what that figure really should be. Would microsoft have gone bankrupt if I did not buy MS office and help fund the "development costs"? My individual choice made no difference to MS. So the value of a product is a very undefined thing.
There can be a huge dispute about the actual value of software. The historical record of the computer industry is littered with dead products and could-have-been's because the owner placed too great a value on it. The users went elsewhere.
In a way OSS, is just a different business model, that says that undefined cost is so hard to peg at a good value, lets just ignore it, and find indirect ways to fund development, which opens up a great side benefit, that if that value is kept at nor near zero, then you can give freedom (libre) to your users, they can have the source, they can redistribute. As long as you make sure there is another way to generate funds then everyone wins. I get a product (plus source and redistribution) and you get profit.
Exactly where is the evil here? Theft? I don't see it.
The problem with commercial software is that to make sure you get paid the "value" of your software you must take libre from your users, otherwise you make it too easy for people to pirate your software. So you focus on only one way to make profit, and take from me the libre I think is very important. Well, I won't go along with it. You are free to continue to do what ever you want, as long as it is the standard commercial binary-only or Non-Disclosure Agreeement crap, then I am free to ignore you and your product.
-------
Also, I really think the author takes a cheap, almost slanderous shot at Eric Raymond in his article. He sounds like anti-unix, microsoft-appologist with a bug up his ass rather than a philosopher. He also cannot seem to distinguish between linux and Sun Microsystems, which I think any OSS person could very easily, we just might have a hard time telling Sun from MS.
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That's the whole point, kill the inteligencia, when they're addicted to Netgrocer and Amazon.com, then blamo! Krush the web, with backhoes, trainwrecks and fertilizer bombs, and hot-chicks, don't forget the hot chicks, or leave me out of your strange plans. Time for the lawyers to meet the sea, baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aw quit yer whinning Thatcher-boy, England is the Leading Force for Americanism in Europe. You chums are the thin edge of a big American Wedge. Bwuhahahahahaha! No more baget's, its all MacDonaldland buscuits, with cheese*, egg and processed pseudo-bacon. Why else are you louts be run by Euro-skeptics & the new pansified wussed-out anti-socialist Labour Party.
* and by cheese, I mean velveta, sans any brei-style bacteria.
No way, first darn near every frog in Quebec needs to be deported back to france before I will ever allow those beer-swilling, Subject to the Queen, Quartering-loving, hosers in my country.
I totally agree with the author's characterization of the Debian Corporation, how dare they try to sell such a terribly outdated system. I mean, if it's unstable do I want to install it on my computer? Don't even go there girl.
If I owned stock in Debian Inc. I would be demanding that the CEO be fired. How can Bruce Peren's cash those big checks without shame?
Clearly Debian Inc. is nothing compared to the amazing TurboLinux or the powerful Servers I've built with Mandrake. No proper e-commerce site can be run without KDE as the desktop powering the whole thing!
What the hell does pro-gun have to do with anti-communism? I seem to remember communists quite liking guns.
Then exactly where can I download NeWS? Huh????????????????????????????????????
I like how everyone is pointing to non-existent alternate programs. Berlin seems neat, but it is no where near finished, all the others examples are dead technology from '91.
What fucking kind of university or company would employ this moron?
"You shouldn't have to put files in directories. The directories should reach out and take them."
The only horde Amazon.com is going to devolve into is a horde of bankrupted investors, when they finally go belly up.
It is nothing but breathless, computer-babble. The direct analog to psycho-babble. Just a lot of stupid, never to be implemented crap that is so generalized that eventually something vaugely similar might come to be. But this guy didn't think of any of this ideas himself, and I seriously doubt he will ever implement any of them.
Fuck the essay, write some code.
We'll know the system is working when a butterfly wanders into the in-box and (a few wingbeats later) flutters out - and in that brief interval the system has transcribed the creature's appearance and analyzed its way of moving, and the real butterfly leaves a shadow-butterfly behind. Some time soon afterward you'll be examining some tedious electronic document and a cyber-butterfly will appear at the bottom left corner of your screen (maybe a Hamearis lucina) and pause there, briefly hiding the text (and showing its neatly-folded rusty-chocolate wings like Victorian paisley, with orange eyespots) - and moments later will have crossed the screen and be gone.
What kind of dope is this guy smokeing and where can I get some?
If the pc world was Betel (or BePowerPC) rather than Wintel, we would all be bitching about evil Be Corp. Some people might find Be to be friendly and open(ish) now, but that's only because they have to act that way just to survive. Microsoft does not act the way they do because they are evil, that's just how you maximize profits for shareholders.
Shareholders are even worse engineers than managers. Software wants to be free, and so do I. For most of what I do, linux is great, and I can wait for a threaded IP stack, etc. However, I also admin HP-UX systems that fill 3 or 4 2meter racks, linux is not ready for that kind of hardware, but it will be soon. And when it is the world shall be debianized!
HOMO!!!!!!!! Seriously though, it is an interesting paper. Just think how this applies to race.
I thought all the french are cheese farmers.
yeah, but saying the download time, or the cost of a cd equals not free is like saying "The Air isn't free, I mean you gotta breath! All that effort expanding my chest, and contracting it, shit.... whata rip, dude! If air was really free it should push its way down into my lungs, and then rush right out again."
Its time to blame someone and kill them!!! I say it the lawyers fault.
yes I agree, and in addition I propose we create a Cyber UN to solve all of the worlds problems! Just subscribe to the website, and it would allow small independant countries to feed their starving peoples. At first it would not have mush memberstates, but it would grow with respect of the many pained pained pained people whom it helped.
butt, U gotta add: device=kde.sys to y3r autoexec.bat be4 it worx.
Now that would be cool. A Cat-Matrix. Just think of all the processing power a matrix of cat brains could produce!
Powered by the Zilog Z-80!
Come on guys, stop acting like some petty Stallmanesque psychonauts, and start thinking about what's best for your users, and hence for Debian, because without users, you are as nothing. Reject the amendment, and include KDE in Debian. Maybe then we won't all think of you as a group of pointless obsessives on some illogical crusade against proprietary software.
Yeah, you losers, why don't you get with it and include MS Internet Explorer and the wonderful MS Office Assistant, he's so cute, and I miss him so!
Of course it is just a small part of microsoft's evil plan to destroy open source software by destroying humanity. No people, no open source! See, the extra RADIAtion caused by this so-called scheme will wither our balls. Once everyone's balls are appropriately withered and numb, the human race will become extinct, except for a cryogenically preserved Bill Gates who currently wears special asbestos Depends undergarments for protection. He will start again and create a new society by bio-engeneering his large harem of semi-intelligent llamas (they can do amazing things with VB).
So there!
Go to bed without any dinner!
Tomorrow your action item is to GROW UP!!!!!!
Under every stone is a Debian Project, never forget that!
Oh No, you're right, the whole sclemole is gonna go bust! Lets all run back screaming to Bill Gates! Hep me Massa Gates, I's done installed linux, an I'm in a worl' o' trouble!
Oh man, I like really have this idea in my head about how all of these geeky, nerdy kids are like totally taking the bread from the face of metallica and Mr. Lars, knows whats up and He's done the research, so watch out. Mr. Napster, we'll get you and all your minions at Napters Inc. You're globally ringed network cann't stop the power of Lars. Metallica RULLESZZZZZ. The thing you never think of is how that all hurts the little record company executives, I mean, do you know how much work they put into each of these totally crappy bands just to get one Metallica? Like 4 in 1, I mean, just how many crappy Megadeth's did our cool record exec's have to put up with until we bootlegged our way to the top and stuff. Don't take food from the tray of the record guys, they're like our best friends and fucking crap like that. They get top picks of the chicks after lars, the rest of the guys, then the roadies, and the bouncers, then the exec's man, just a little payback if you know what I mean, and I know you do! but you'd better be like a wolf in the forest because the chickens are roosting, and what not, because Metallica knows when you are sleeping and when you're downloading napster, so you'll go to jail, geek-boy, the nerd-ward of the big-house. You'll end up pulling cable, but it won't be cat5 that's for sure, mannnn! hahahaha. Wow!
Oh, you fantastic bitch!!! You're the one getting people hot and bothered!!!
RMS then resigned when MIT was charging people for the software that other MIT employees wrote - employees that MIT -paid- to write that software.
That is his personal choice. He is free to hold any ideas he wishes, if he thinks MIT was wrong, then he should quit or find some other way to protest. But if MIT thinks RMS is so amazing that they would change their actions based on his willingness to quit, then they must think his mere presence is a valueable comodity, maybe they're dumb and might over estimate his value maybe not. But that is MITs choice.
If I own a business then I am free to do with it whatever I want. I can piss it away, pay all my employee's generous pay, and require them to only show up one day a week, and never check to see if they actually produce anything. Or if I wanted to I could send all the profits to Greenpeace, it is the owners choice. However, the usual practice is for the owner to keep all the profits for himself. I certainly am free to do so, but then no one will work for free (the basic premise of the article). So, you have to compromise and pay employees a wage of somekind. Highly skilled people can easily pick and choose, so they get high wages and lots of perks. Perhaps one of the perks is the right to take your dog to the office or perhaps being able to work 5 or 10 hours per week on some OSS project.
This whole article reads to me like the author thinks writing OSS software can only be theft. But in addition to the very free-market wage-barganing above, it also leaves out how corporations can profitably use OSS. How having a complete OS saves money and development time. There are so many pieces of software that already exists, so many languages, development environments, that you can take advantage of and/or enclude in your product. The only cost for them, is that your product must also be free (libre NOT COST-FREE). You can still make a profit on your product (macmillian for instance). (You can even charge directly for your product, but because of libre how much you can get away with is more limited than a regular proprietory program)
I work for a company that buys redhat CDs, and tens of thousands of dollars in redhat training, and support (sadly because I prefer debian, in which case the money would be going to stormix or valinux/oreilly/SGI or elsewhere). Why do we spend this money instead of simply downloading it? Because we need access to people who really know a lot about particular programs, we cannot afford to staff a complete set of experts on every program (+ plus the kernel, drivers, etc) on the CD.
This is money well spent. We can redistribute most of the redhat CDs, (some non-free crap exists), we have source to pretty much everything, and we get the help we need, when we need it. To go to sun or microsoft, the cost would be much greater, we would not get the source, and we could never distribute any of the technology surrounding our products. When we buy from redhat, we buy specific things we need, when we bought from sun or microsoft we also were required to pay for something that cost essentially nothing to produce.
Years ago I bought a copy of MS Office, it cost me 600 bucks. It cost microsoft the cost of a carboard box, a cheaply printed book, a cd and a hologram to provide me MS Office. At most this packaging cost them 50 bucks to make, probably far less. Now the remaining 550 bucks of the charge was for a very undefined "development costs". Who knows what that figure really should be. Would microsoft have gone bankrupt if I did not buy MS office and help fund the "development costs"? My individual choice made no difference to MS. So the value of a product is a very undefined thing.
There can be a huge dispute about the actual value of software. The historical record of the computer industry is littered with dead products and could-have-been's because the owner placed too great a value on it. The users went elsewhere.
In a way OSS, is just a different business model, that says that undefined cost is so hard to peg at a good value, lets just ignore it, and find indirect ways to fund development, which opens up a great side benefit, that if that value is kept at nor near zero, then you can give freedom (libre) to your users, they can have the source, they can redistribute. As long as you make sure there is another way to generate funds then everyone wins. I get a product (plus source and redistribution) and you get profit.
Exactly where is the evil here? Theft? I don't see it.
The problem with commercial software is that to make sure you get paid the "value" of your software you must take libre from your users, otherwise you make it too easy for people to pirate your software. So you focus on only one way to make profit, and take from me the libre I think is very important. Well, I won't go along with it. You are free to continue to do what ever you want, as long as it is the standard commercial binary-only or Non-Disclosure Agreeement crap, then I am free to ignore you and your product.
-------
Also, I really think the author takes a cheap, almost slanderous shot at Eric Raymond in his article. He sounds like anti-unix, microsoft-appologist with a bug up his ass rather than a philosopher. He also cannot seem to distinguish between linux and Sun Microsystems, which I think any OSS person could very easily, we just might have a hard time telling Sun from MS.